ok, i just left a critique on your latest.  please don't hate me for it...

ok, i just left a critique on your latest.  please don't hate me for it...

Yes i will i'll hunt you down to the dark edge's of the known world...
And i didnot even read it yet ...whaohahaha .... :lol:

Chris

@ Artpearl   I was in the middle of commenting on your piece a couple of days ago when a storm knocked out my internet connection and lights, and forgot to ever get back to it.  Real life takes precedence over crits, it seems. :(

To make cats fuzzy-add a noise under 3d textures in the advanced tab in the material room and play with the settings.

I'll keep giving crits as long as I can, time allowed.  I like getting them, too.  Truth is a rare commodity these days, and if I can get some arond here, then good on ya!  It helps me grow as a person and an artist.  Not everyone will comment on every piece.  Surreal pieces are the hardest to comment on because it's hard to tell what really needs fixing, and what's on purpose. ^__^ V,,

Now i did read your comments ..

And i thank your for it ..this is the stuff we learn from..
One of the first line's you say it didnot do it for me ..
well i rater have comments like this one from you than  "great image" 
I again thank you for the comments.

Chris

Seems rolling along fine for me - I have gotten behind in the last several days because I've been very focused on V4.1 changes and haven't spared the time, but in the next few days I'll get more of it done.  I'm sure some of the enthusiasm has worn off for at least some people though.  I don't feel too much guilt because I know for certain I've commented every single person with a recent posting at least once (barring last 3-4 days).  ;)

JOELGLAINE: Oh Dear! yet another thing to feel guilty about - now I cause power cuts in remote places :)  Yes, I suppose you'r excused. W'll try to fuzz the cat as per your suggestion, thanks.
pjz99: I am sure nobody can fault your commenting frequency. And if we also take into account that  the comments are so meticulous and thoughtfull, I think you are up for sainthood  :)
(I did worry though that something may be wrong with you)

Just one more point - not only do I find comments I get helpfull, I discovered it is also a learning experience to comment on other people's work- I have to think of what makes it work or not work, and that can then have implication to my own work.

Quote - Mmm is this dead ?

Or were my last work so damn good that most here cant type anything in awe ?

Im not asking for comments ..but after 20 days its getting less and less...
So are we done with this "club" 

Chris

I've fallen a few days  behind in my image viewing. I finally got a bit of inspiration after months without any, and have been working on an image and then reworking it.  As much as I like the idea of this group, I won't let it get in the way of when I feel creative. My creativity comes and goes, so when it's there I have to act on it.

Bar-Code I haven't been commenting on your most recent images because they are product showcase gallery images and you are showing products you are working on for the MP.  I don't feel a need to comment on those types of images just because the person is in the "critique group". I rarely comment on them when randomly viewing the galleries, so I don't see what that should change because the person uploading the image is a member of this group.

This is a "critque group" not a way to bolster views, comments and ratings. So unless I have something to contribute that i feel can improve the image, I don't comment. 

Going back to an earlier post I made in this thread...I see this group turning into a popularity contest where people are getting upset because comments aren't being left on their images. This isn't about popularity. It's about improving skills such as lighting, composition, textures etc etc. Not about ooing and ahhhing and stating "great image!"  "Love this"  "hugs! superb image as always" etc. etc.

I posted the following way back on page 18 or 19 of this thread....but it bears repeating because it explains clearly my feelings about posting critique and just posting comments for the sake of commenting.

Quote - Quote - "I am also one who does not comment on every image. I look at them all, but I only comment when I have something to say that I think is helpful. "

Exactly. There is no reason to feel obligated to comment on every single gallery upload made by someone who is part of this group. As someone said, you don't reply to every single thread or post created in the forums because you are a member of the Renderosity community.  This group should be treated the same way. Comment  only when you have something constructive to say about the image and try and give a suggestion on how to fix it.  If you look at an image and don't see anything wrong, or you feel that it's not to your taste etc, then close the window and don't comment.

This isn't a popularity contest to generate comments. In fact I am quite dismayed to see people commenting on every image whether they have something constructive to say or not. In a way it's defeating the entire purpose of getting meaningful comments.

Comments such as "I don't know this program so I can't give critique" or "This genre isn't to my taste, so I won't give critique"  is pointless and should be refrained from being made, because as I said this isn't about generating comments for the gallery images, it's about helping give some insight to helping the person get better in their art.

In fact I have decided that as soon as I see comments by the artists that say something along the lines of  "Just playing...."  or  "Just threw this together to get something up into the gallery...."   that I won't be making a comment.  In fact I feel that those images should not havea  comment box attached to them.  I will only be commenting on serious attempts as should we all.    So please keep that in mind when you are uploading.

If you are 'slapping something together " or  "just playing around" and uploading something because you feel you need to meet a quoat, to me that is not a serious attempt at anything and does not warrant comments from members of this group IMHO.

Sorry to be harsh, but I'm seeing more and more frivilous comments and uploads and I'm getting dismayed because it seems that some are treating this more like a popularity contest to generate comments than anything else. 

I really think that there should be some ground rules in place about this other than to be respectful when you do comment.

Acadia - no one's saying they aren't getting enough meaningless comments.  i think that feeling is that people aren't getting enough actual critiques anymore.  nobody's asked to be more popular.

i know i've been falling behind lately, and i'll try to comment more.  i will say that i've been holding back some, but if the group is truly a critique group, i guess i shouldn't.

Real life has a way of getting in the way.  The whole point of this group is to comment when you can, on what you can.

@Artpearl--if you can cause long distance power-outages, I'll never miss a crit on your stuff again! @___@;;  LOL

You made a spectacular comment about the nature of critical thinking.  When we do an intense seeing of a piece, we try to see what it has going on, it also makes us think about WHAT we're seeing as much as HOW we see it.

Critiques helps not only the artist communicate with the target audience better, but helps ME communicate with MYSELF as well, by helping me crystallize my vision more concretely, so I can visualize it with clarity.

From just the comments I've left, I've helped myself, as well as others.

Seeing the increase in skill of those I've been watching, I'd say this group has helped a lot!

Quote - drifterlee, from what I've seen in my Textures folder, a bump map looks just like a greyscale of the texture.

That's the quick and dirty way of doing it, but can often get you in trouble. For example, if you greyscale a face with makeup, then the makeup will look either raised or lowered. Likewise with tatoos. There is a nice tutorial here about using bumbmaps on 2nd skins to get a realistic look. Often on clothing, you want to raise trim, and lower seems, so you may want to adjust them that way.

Acadia:
Bar-Code I haven't been commenting on your most recent images because they are product showcase gallery images 

mmm from my last 12 image there was 1 with product showcase gallery.. 
Not that it matters...
Nobody has to comment

All i was asking is if this CG was dead ... thats all..
Nobody needs to say sorry or explain why he did or did not comment in the last days.
I for one was happy with good comment that helped me .. "Great image" 30 times is fun for the rulers of the most commented club

Chris 

Quote - Acadia - no one's saying they aren't getting enough meaningless comments.  i think that feeling is that people aren't getting enough actual critiques anymore. 

I'm up to May 2nd in my uploads folder.  I hope to get through the 2nd and 3rd today. The lack of comments on many people's part could also be that their enthusiasm has waned.  Like with a lot of things in life, people get initially excited and sign up for something, and then their interest declines.  While this group may have started out with a bang, only the die hards will continue with it and the numbers of active participants will decline in time. That doesn't mean the group is dead, it just means that the newness and enthusiasm has been lost by many.  You know "good intensions" and all that stuff.

Also, some people are more active in uploading than others, and some have signed up when they don't even have a  single image in their gallery.

I have numerous points and ideas here: Barcode - we need a list with links to members of this group's galleries placed at the TOP of this forum thread that has all the members of the critique group. That way anyone can stop by, click on those links and comment if they want. There are so many members it is impossible to keep track. Some images I do not feel qualified to comment on because it is in a software I know nothing about. I know a little Bryce, a little Terragen, and Poser basically. We really need this list at the TOP where all can find it. I can't mark everyone as favs because of the spam I am getting (won zillions of dollars so far in fake lotteries, etc.) and my ISP is threatening me over it. 

**Promo image with attached lighting etc should be mentioned: Absolutely wonderful idea! Never thought of it!

Not all images supposed to be realistic!!!!!!!!!! If they were, we should all become photographers, LOL! Some lighting in Poser will never be realistic. Example. A woman facing away from a sunset. She would be in the dark in reality, right? Only her back would be illuminated. Assume there is a street lamp or something, I guess, that is out of site.**

Quote - Barcode - we need a list with links to members of this group's galleries placed at the TOP of this forum thread that has all the members of the critique group. That way anyone can stop by, click on those links and comment if they want. There are so many members it is impossible to keep track.

If you have the people participating favorited, you can just click:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/member.php?favorite_artistsMaybe Karen can note this in the first post in the thread.

...edit: um, which does not address what you're talking about.  I'll put a list together when I get into work when I have a bit of spare time, it's only a search/replace of the first list.

Tell you what, I'll post a gallery link next to each person's name, too.
I'll do it tomorrow though cos I'm tired... it's been a long week!

Quote - "**Barcode - we need a list with links to members of this group's

**Thats a Good idea but .. 
I Can't do that .. Im not a MOD here at R'O so placing things at the top of a thread is a No No for me..
I have no more rights or site functions than you have.

But somehow more people ask me thing i cant do here ... i wonder why they think  i have more "power / rights " then others have.. 

"maybe i should have those rights"  

Chris

Karen1573 - why not just link each name? that way it saves space.

Quote - I strongly believe that the group is alive and kicking. I also feel that some members contribute more to it than others for whatever reason. Also, there could be any number of reasons why a particular image doesn't get so many comments or critiques. For that reason, I don't think it's justified to claim that the group is dead just because you've had a few less comments recently.

i haven't done loads of comments recently cos rl keeps gettin in the way. usually when i come home from work i'm just too knackered to do much of anything cept for vegetatin :)

You know, once upon a time, I used to wonder how people found the time to do all the "things" involved in posering (browsing the galleries, reading the forums, shopping, learning new skills, trying to hone the skills they have, the constant search for free stuff, actually gasp creating an image) and actually have a life as well...  and I decided it must be because they had high-speed internet connections.

Well, I have high speed internet now, and I'm still wondering...

I like the critique group, I see a real need for it and I think it's really helping people. It has helped me. But I also assumed, perhaps in error, that as the group grew, there would be sufficient participants to critique everyone's image. That it would not be necessary to critique every image that was uploaded by a member of the group.

All of which is to say that I know I've fallen off. But I feel as if perhaps the spirit of the venture had drifted. My understanding was that this was formed of people willing to give their honest opinion on what they saw in each others work... and that is not the same as saying you will critique (criticize) every image that's uploaded by a member of the group. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone is not necessarily qualified to critique.

So, when faced with an image that I actually, honestly like, I'm not supposed to say that, I'm supposed to find something wrong with it, something to critique, because nothing, after all, is perfect. If I like it, I have to quantify why I like it or else, heaven forfend we may end up like the group that the critique group was formed as a reaction against.

So, just sign me,

Critique Group - Lite

Eek, there is nothing wrong with a purely positive comment - just try to express why it's purely positive, e.g. "Excellent, and I really like X and Y because of thus and such."

Oh! My God!! I should copy and paste most of the statements made by user pjz99, because thats exactly what I came here for. In my case, I dont avoid nude figures, but try to use them only when its fully justified and add a significative comment to the whole image. Well, first things first. Im a cuban artist living in Colombia for about 15 years. But I used to work as movies and TV director and screenwriter, nothing specially related to CG. I started working on 3D softwares, particularly Poser and Cinema 4D, maybe 6 months ago, and just like the song says: "All By Myself". I cannot express myself as I would like in English language but Im able to understand everything, including sarcasm. So, whats next? Hope to improve my newborn art and, as someone says before, see the work of others improve as well.

Do you want to join?  Anybody's welcome, just say so - although as you can see at the tail end of the thread, some people are not as enthusiastic, you will certainly get a good amount of useful feedback.

Yes, I would like to join. Thought I have made myself clear, now I see I dont. Sorry for that. Hi, pjz, I was referring to your first post, the one you made when you entered this group _ on pag 1. I really agree with your point of view. Havent had time to read the whole thread; it took me some time to get into the last page. At one point of this journey I saw a post of someone trying to unsuscribe on the basis that he doesnt have enough time to make serious comments on about the 25 o 30 artworks he receives everyday at his email. To be honest, Im starting to worry about that particular issue, too. Because, if that were the case, soon I would be in the same situation. Please, help me to handle this, because I really want to be part of this group.

I'd like to note something about adding members to faves for the group... As far as I've done, I've added about 65 or so people just from the group and I know I've missed several. The issue I'm getting now is that with that number of people, my email is spammed beyond belief and after so many notifications of a new email, it just stops. I do try to look at everything that comes through my inbox but I don't comment on everything mostly because I have no critical comment to post that hasn't already been stated or, as others have pointed out, that I do not know the program of choice for the image. 

I do intend to go through and add everyone new (comparing lists of course LOL) tonight but I can't promise that I'll comment on everything. 

Just my two cents (or $5 depending on how you look at it :P)

Ana

As has been stated innumberable times in this thread-- Comment on what you feel MOVED on commenting on!  None of has time to comment on ALL, but we can and should comment on SOME.

Some I look at don't make me feel anything, or it's a style I don't know HOW to comment on, or I don't feel like being part of the Greek chorus and parroting the same comment that others have already said.

That's normal, so don't worry about that!  When you see something you might know how to fix--Speak Up!  If you see some effect that grabs your eyeballs, and you'd like to do the same in some render--Speak Up!

Folks--don't worry so much! :biggrin:

Please be aware also, you can control whether or not a favorited artist will send you an email whenever they post from this page:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/member.php?favorite_artists

If you feel you are getting too much mail from this, you can disable some or all emails, and simply view from that link (bookmark it).

OK, that should be easier, you can now browse the artist's gallery directly from the opening post of the thread.

And bogart137, you're in :-)

Oh good, you beat me to it!

Karen, you missed some- (3 that I can see, pjz99, Randc and SAM3D) .  Hopefully it will help make it easier for some.

Oiiii...

OK I think I got em all now.

Except nownoneof the links in that list work for me, the galleries or the "add to". I get
"The requested URL /mod/Gallery/browse.php was not found on this server"
(sorry...)

How about now?

Yeh, all works now, Thanks

WOW, Karen! That was a lot of work to put all those links. Looks like it anyway. Thanks!

VERY COOL!  Thanks for all the hard work, Karen! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I'm going browsing! Nyahahahahahhaahaahahhaha! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! ^__^/ V,,

TEH CUTENESS!!! **IT BURNS ME EYES!  TEH CUTENESSSSSSS--- AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

**I thought we had signed a treaty to prohibit the spread and use of Weapons of Mass Cuteness in this thread? :lol:

Quote - I'd like to note something about adding members to faves for the group... As far as I've done, I've added about 65 or so people just from the group and I know I've missed several. The issue I'm getting now is that with that number of people, my email is spammed beyond belief and after so many notifications of a new email, it just stops. I do try to look at everything that comes through my inbox but I don't comment on everything mostly because I have no critical comment to post that hasn't already been stated or, as others have pointed out, that I do not know the program of choice for the image. 

I do intend to go through and add everyone new (comparing lists of course LOL) tonight but I can't promise that I'll comment on everything. 

Just my two cents (or $5 depending on how you look at it :P)

Ana

@Anasta
For me the same. Some programms like Vue i cant help because i dont use it. And after everything is pointed out in a image i think its not neccesary to repead  the points again.

Maybe we should (meaning poor karen) seperate the list of members into categories like Poser, 3D Max and so on. That would save time for those of us that don't use or understand other software.

You have eye(s) (at least one eye I'd expect!) and a brain, you can still comment on how something looks even if you don't know what menu option in which program might produce it :)

I think a lot of members post cross-genre anyway so it might not always be appropriate. I know I post mainly in Poser but also in Bryce, Writers, 2D and Mixed Medium from time to time...

Quote - Maybe we should (meaning poor karen) seperate the list of members into categories like Poser, 3D Max and so on. That would save time for those of us that don't use or understand other software.

Other logical extention which could also save a lot of time - have a pull down menu with possible critique comments (eg excellent...wow...ooo); have an e-bot scanning u/l images and post some comments;

Oh wait, that's already being done. Perhaps ask some of your fans how they do it  :)

Quote - That would save time for those of us that don't use or understand other software.

You don't need to work with or understand the software that the image was created in in order to give an opinion as to whether you like the image or not or if you see flaws or deemed imperfections that strike you as needing improvement.  The important thing is the end result, not the tools that created it. 

I don't paint, but I can look at a painting and tell if there aren't any shadows, or if the eyes are crosseyed, or a tree is hanging in midair instead of looking planted in the ground. 

Just make sure you indicate that you aren't familiar with the software and that you aren't able to provide possible solutions.  There is no reason why you can't give input though.

good work on the criticism group so far. just wanted to commend y'all in that. however, my immediate question is: how did they get those kitties inside those cups? it's physically impossible IMVHO, unless they are some weird new muta-kittie with mini-abdomens..

Quote - You have eye(s) (at least one eye I'd expect!) and a brain, you can still comment on how something looks even if you don't know what menu option in which program might produce it :)

Well yes I do sometimes comment on those images too its just that I don't usually give critiques on them... For example, if someone was making a beach scene in Vue or whatever... If it looks like a beach I'll comment positively that I think it looks like a good beach :P All I'm saying is that I prefer to give critiques that I have a solution as to how to fix it. I know how frustrating it is to get a comment saying something looks off but then not getting any ideas how to change it. Thats all I was saying :P

This issue of what software each one uses is a recurrent topic in this group. I dont understand why that is an issue. I havent a clue about watercolor painting, Cinema4D, Lightwave and thousands of other tools or techniques. But, regardless of that, i almost always have an opinion about an image. I have an opinion if lighting is too dim or too bright, if composition is balanced or unbalanced, if characters are realistic or not, etc, etc, etc. 

How many of us knows the techniques Leonardo da Vinci used? Or Dali? Only a few, for sure. But we all can recognize the quality of their images, right? We can not say "use a bigger brush" or "press button x" but for sure we should be able to express our opinion about what we see. Well, at least I can and english is not even my native language (as I'm sure all of you already figured out :-)).

I think the issue is not about the tool used. The issue is more about the style. I have to confess that sometimes I see images that have a style so different from my "mental universe" that I dont even know how to start the comment. And I dont want to say just "excellent" if i dont mean it. So, in these cases, I prefer not to comment at all. For example, the other day I saw a picture, I dont know by whom, of a naked girl in a normal pose, near a car. Just that, a naked girl in a normal pose and a car. It may have nice reflections, nice textures, but I just couldnt find any words to comment. Because for me that image had no idea behind, it had no "soul", it was void. And, for me to comment on something, I must feel that the image brings something new, that I'm a bit richer inside after seeing it. And I felt nothing of the sort. I see lots of naked girls and lots of cars, so what's new in a couple more? 
I perfectly accept if the people who liked to see that image dont like my own images. Those people might look at my images and think: "this guy is crazy, making these impossible things, without any sense! what a piece of rubbish!". 

So, some people may not be able to comment on other people's creations simply because there are very little common points between them about the way of seeing art and the world, about what they expect from an image. I mainly expect innovation, wrapped up in fine technique. Other people might mainly expect naked girls with fine textures. Other people expect something completely different. That's ok. We are all different and that's how it should be. But for people belonging to radically different "mental universes" it might be hard to make a comment.

I hope I didnt offend anyone, it wasnt my intention at all. It's just my simple opinion (maybe simplistic, I admit) on these complex issues.

Rutra, I agree with that completely.

If you have some critique to give but you can't offer potential solutions, refer them to the forum for that software. That's why there are forums. I know that if someone leaves me a comment about how my lighting sucks or something, and they can't offer me any solution, I can always ask here, or at any number of other forums around the Poser community.

When you sit down to have some rice, all you care about is the final result. Who cares whether it was cooked in a pot on the stove, a rice cooker, baked in the oven or done in the microwave. All that matters is that it's cooked, the method used is moot. You base your opinion as to whether it's good based on what it tastes like. Just like you base your opinion on an image by what it looks like, not based on the software or medium used to create it.

Too many people are hung up on the software involved because the images are filed in the gallery based on the software used.  I bet if Renderosity had it to do all over again, they would not segregate by software and instead would go by theme, because software is inconsequential really. And many use multiple software to achieve their results.

Hello to all,
I think that the critique group sometimes isn´t this what we have thought when we have joyned. I only can say for myself, that I only give a real critique to images from whom I have a knowledge by myself. So for me this are portraits an photoreality as good as possible. I can´t write to those with another kind of artwork "that the figure doesn´t looks real at all" if this artist makes images more like paintings or funny scenes.
If I say or write that there could be something better from my point of view, I also try to give a solution. I´m sure that would the artist know the trick, he or she certainly had done the right.

I remember that in the beginning with poser, I often read "there isn´t a shadow" or "it´s the wrong shadow" but nobody told me, how to do a shadow.......

I also think a special gallery for critique-images would be a great solution. Everybody would see at once that the artist needs some help, ideas and tips to make this image better. And also each member here could post íts image without to be a member of a special group.

Okay, I saw a member's image that was supposed to be water, I said it looked more like a block of ice. if it had been Poser, I could have told him how to make water or pointed him to a good Poser water tut. That's what I meant.

in a cartoon group to which I belong, folks sometimes post poser renders. they are usually ignored. when the poser users have complained about this, sometimes the response is "I don't know enuff about 3D rendering to comment on it". as the artists in said group mostly draw cartoons using pencils, pen/ink, and/or painter/photoshop, it's a passive-aggressive way of implying they think the renders are unappealing, compared to cartoons drawn by hand. on the other hand, I've also seen "reaction formation" here and elsewhere, when a non-poser user criticises a poser render. it's a defence mechanism of redirecting the criticism away from the target and towards the source. my only suggestion is to be kind and fair in one's criticism. if one isn't an expert, tell 'em what one likes about the image, and be as diplomatic as possible about pointing out any "flaws". similarly, folks who are at the receiving end of said criticism should be patient with their critics, and try to make the best of it.