Ah sometimes I wish we could really say something about a particular pic! I just saw one that begged for a very "Tart" response, and I don't mean negative.....

But that wouldn't be a critique, it would be satyrical (*yes I meant to spell it that way~!)

Ariana 

Joelglaine
I admire your publically spirited attitude and your contribution to the critic group. I cant say I followed all of your arguments, maybe its my English (not my native language). (Like the subject of 'people start into the WHY of anyone--that's too much' or 'if you don't want to trouble yourself with them' ).
However, I would like to thank you for describing my images as 'extreme bizzar &surreal' - it is what I'm aiming for. (Definitely no sarcasm here).I'm puzzled though, if it does touch you, how come you havnt said it even once as a comment? would have touched me.  It is exactly the type of comments I love most, but I always specify that I appreciate any type of comments, technical, artistic, philosophical, etc. And I try to contribute what I can in these aspects when I comment.

Perhaps the purpose of my earlier post wasnt made clear enough:
I have no wish to dismiss or judge any use of the critic group by others. I understand that many wish to get  specific technical support and/or  benifit from a lengthly dialogue (can you say multilogue?). 
All I wanted to say is  it is not my way, and it doesnt help me. And I wanted to find out if there is hope that what I like most in a critique will have a place in the group's 'new way'. (and perhaps there are some silent current and past members who would like the same sort of feedback).

Art Pearl, if we're getting a gallery and aforum, looks like there will be room for you to get what you're looking for. I don't know that any of it is set in stone yet, and with the unrolling of the new site look, it probably isn't the center of attention at the moment :)

@ Artpearl  I said it now.  I'm human and as prone to mistakes as anyone.  I didn't say before because everyones' art touches me in some way.  When I thought of someone directing you on what to do or what not to do in art made me angry.  So what I said was in public defense of your art style, which I love!

I think it's been since April sice you posted anything.  If you've posted more lately, send me a link and I'll be happy to look at anything you've done! :biggrin:

@Greywolf--WHeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!  I'm a good example!  Thanks!

@Everyone else-- If I've done anything to make more people give more critiques, and to look at their own art more critically, then I'm VERY happy!  I've been so lucky in my life, if I can do anything to make the world a better looking, or just better place--I'm paying the world back.  ^__^ V,,

LoL all I know is since joining the critique group, I am finding myself ripping my artwork to shreds in my own mind, before anyone gets a chance to comment on it.   "the Gaurdian" is a good example of one that will be getting an overhaul before too long.   I picked out tons of stuff I want to change on my own after posting it but, by then I already had comments so i decided to see if anyone else noticed lol.

Quote - LoL all I know is since joining the critique group, I am finding myself ripping ........

Whew... I was worried this post was you complaining about the critique I just left...  LOL.
Who knew it would be so nerveracking :)

LOLOLOLOL Connie, you are such a big fraidy cat!  Big hugs for all you nervous nellies! :biggrin:  You do good works when you don't let your nerves get the better of ya! :lol:

Joelglain:
I guess you havnt added me to your favorite artists, so no e-bots about my posts :(
(More proof the group isnt set up well, if you wanted to see them but  missed them)
I posted 16  images after april. These include poser images some photographs and some watercolors done with or without the help of prior poser images. my gallery link is
ArtPearl

Feel free to chose any or all, I wouldnt know what to recomend.(Although watercolor is my strength, so look at least at one of those)
Anyone else that missed them or wasnt sure if I welcome comments - I do, please visit

AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!  OMG!  I'm so sorry!  I thought I had you!  I better fix that ASAP! (ASAP= As soon as possible)

Hey do we have a master list of members here????

@connie!

I know what you mean I went and looked at PsychoticSidneys' gallery and everything is so nice! I couldn't leave my critique!

@PS

I wanted to ask if you add in your main character in post work sometimes? I notice the floatie thing. I have a postwork workaround if you are interested. But I LOVE your renders! :) That's why I couldn't critique there *blush I was a fraid others would jump all over me. Just add feathers and clucking.....

@ArtPearl

I kinda feel that you want more comments than critiques. Do you want us to critique your work??? Or are you looking to add comments? I am confused. I do Pen & Ink, and Acrylics (*both full texture & thinned down to watercolor opacity ), and except for the pieces that you mentioned that you paint over the poser images, I can't tell what effect you were attempting, so a critique is hard to pin down. Let Me/Us know.    I like the fish avatar!

Ariana

Ariana
I feel a bit guilty about using this thread, which was aimed at joining leaving the group, not conversations, but I was asked, and joiing/leaving is in limbo anyhow , so:
I  started using Poser just as a tool to help me design my watercolor paintings. I use it to get poses,  correct proportions, find POV. design light and shadows. Therefore the details of texture and color in my poser images were not important to me. However , I got sucked into the CG side so now I would like my CG images to 'stand on their own'. and critiqued for their own merits.  My watercolors only use the poser images as reference. I use transparant watercolor on paper + some pen &ink.
You're probably right that I mainly want comments, I dont want directions. I usually aim to convey a feeling and/or a situation and therefore feedback about what you feel/think when you see it are most usefull to me. However  the comments  can be as critical as you like. You can  also point out errors or weaknesses such as distorted limbs, lack of shadows flaws in composition - anything really. I'll consider everything seriousely, but only implement what in my opinion will improve it. Only thing I wouldnt like is things that change the character of the image like 'this isnt realistic enough' . (I havnt had a comment that i didnt like yet, and I'm not too sensitive, so anything goes as long as its not persnal).
Thanks :)

Hi AP!

First, as in any forum, you should not feel guilty for transgressing into a bit of personal dialog and conversation, as long as it is not a flame or fight that has erupted. Friendly bits and pieces are what any community forum is all about!

Myself, I have often thought of using poser as my "Back Sketch" for my own painting. But I am too lazy to print it out on a decent art stock to do so.

As to critiques, I asked about that because it is the main aim of the forum. If it is only used to get comments, sometimes that can backfire and a critique(s) can maybe lose you other supporters, because they do not understand the critique group is here, or what it is all about. 

I for one, see that because you wanted to use poser as a tool to paint on, you are now just starting to get the bug! LOL! It is an insidious little bugger too!!! I will say this is what is perhaps lacking. You need a few V3 models to get a more polished looking render(*textures and makeups, etc). Check out the freebies. There are lots of very good V3's texture models there! If you don't find any that are good for commercial use as well as personal(*important if you sell!!!). Let me know I have about 60 commercial freebie models for V3, I am happy to share with you! :) the skin texture can make or break a good render. IMHO.

As I say, "art is intrinsic to the buyer"! *My Quote! So your painting style is unique and the use of color and perspective is good! Other than that I cannot say or tell anything there that I would critique at this time. Art is a wonderful thing, it is personal and epherial...hard to critique that.

I rarely if ever try to be harsh in anything. I am a woosie! LOL! Ask Joel! Hope this makes you feel more at home with me! ;)

HuggerZ!

Ariana 

LOL Sorry Connie!! The closer I come to going to school the more critically that I am looking at my OWN artwork.  Although you can feel free to rip it to shreds too! =P  Actually now more than ever I am looking for more critical critiques, will help Psych me up for Critique hell at art school.  Talked to my mentor today and his advice was buckle down, expect to get the crap kicked out of your art work, and if the teacher says jump - ask how high.   He is a graduate from that school and it if was that bad back when he went, I think I am gonna be walking into Dantes Inferno when I go.  Abandon all Hope, all yee who enter here.   plays taps for himself

PS and by the way thank you for the compliment Ariana!

Quote - LOL Sorry Connie!! The closer I come to going to school the more critically that I am looking at my OWN artwork. .....

Welll... if you want some practice in getting the crap kicked out of your images, post them on CG society. It's full of pros, and they take no prisoners (at least that what it seems). They'll give you plenty of kicking and advice!!!

lmao that actually sounds kinda scarey, I'll start easy and let you folks obliterate me first.   work my way up the ladder of imminant destruction.  heh

Cgsociety is for the 'pros' that do it for money.  No matter how good you get around here and feel like a big fish in a little pond--they are bigger fish in a smaller pond! Post there and expect a feeding frenzy! LOLOLOLOL

I always wanted to do CGI and all my friends told me horror stories about how I'd never measure up, or how I'd never learn it. I believed them, like a fool.  I don't now.  CGI is harder to put your own stamp on, than traditional art. That is one thing that frightens a lot of artists from entering CGI.

I never had the patience for oils, and water-colors were one media that defeated me early on. :lol:

I'm not going to let Poser or any CGI software defeat because I can't use the tools!  THAT is why I'm so passionate about the critique group!  My heros are Les and Bekah over at SIxus1 Media.  Les has been doing CGI long enough to make his own models and they bear his own style and his own stamp.

Sometimes in THIS hobby--inspiration is easy for me--all I have to do is look to see what you guys are doing!  :lol: LOLOLOLOL

*ahem.....speak for yourself Joel, I sold my first limited edition print (*And I sold a total of 17 nonLE prints as well) two weeks ago. *plumps up breast feathers and struts around like a real proud chickie!  ;)  Yes, I are a pro! The line for autographs forms to the left please......

I was honestly humbled and very happy.

Ariana

You are welcome PS!!! :)

Ariana

@ Ariana      Well-good for you! So you want to go post on CGSociety now and hobnob with the ILM and Pixar guys? ^__^ V,,  LOL, I'm so jealous! :tt2:  WHich one? Is it posted here? Post a link!

I've only very recently started doing up my own clothes for figures and even my own figures, but I have a long way to go before I get really good at this.  At least I'm enjoying the ride!. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! LOLOLOLOL

*blush ahhh....no ThanX ! CGsoc, is way too full of thier bad selves for a peon like me.

Hi Joel....off to get the darn car fixed today. Computers in cars=$$$! Ugh! Actually it is not posted here because of the LE rules in California (*LE is a numbered item, therefore to reproduce en masse would devalue it for the customer) or something like that. Look in your IM and I will send you my e-mail addy! It was bought by an artist of the name Al De La rosa, he is a sculptor. 

HuggerZ!

Ariana 

yeah, I sold my creations and illustrations too... 
That doesn't necessarily mean I actually know what the heck I'm doing or would dare to post on CG society. I sneak over there while they're sleeping, look around and read...
When I make a somewhat decent piece, it's luck. Those guys do it deliberately!

O__o  I know the feeling well.  The latest piece I did came out accidently well!  It was a test render that looked so good, I used it instead of testing fate! LOLOLOLOL

That's what I want to do!  Do great CGI art DELIBERATELY!!  THAT is one focus of this group!

giggles
I tried to improve something 'deliberately', and instead of atmosphere I ended up with Apollo The Snowman (see my rendering snafu's thread) .
At least I still find it all pretty amusing... but heck, I'm easily entertained.

Me, too!  Give me a rubber band, or plastic milk ring off of a milk jug, and I can play for hours! LOLOLOLOL :lol:  That helps a lot looking at so many renders! ^__^ V,, Hehehehehe!

INCLUDING my own! HEHEHEHEH!

Hmmmm... well here I am still a lil fish in the pond, which I really don't mind lol.  I think I might be related to your friends there Joel.  I keep hearing but thats an expensive school and you sure you can succeed at that program? maybe you should scale your goals a bit.   Gotta love family support.  The only thing that gets me about the CGI tools is, you can buy a program one day and three days later they release version 2,000,000 that your computer cant run.  Lmao I have yet to Sell any of my CGI work although there is a Gallery who were interested in my work, that was like 4 years ago now though.  On the other hand I have sold about 10 sculptures but, my mentor always kicks me in the butt for selling my work too cheap.   DOH!  Right now I have several pieces I could sell BUT I am stuck in BFE and well the locals concider Bears and eagles carved with chain saws to be high art....... shakes his head oh how i long to have my lungs fill with the toxic air of the city,  This fresh air is killin me lol.  Ahh well soon enough.

I know that feeling, but there are some people that are still using Poser 4!  O__o  I can realate somewhat--I still use Paint SHop Pro 7 which I got from JASC software.  They're up to version 10 now, but I prefer the tools I know best , that feel best to me.

One the many reasons to make art is to communicate feelings and thoughts in a non-verbal way. If you do--you do need feedback to let you know if your point is getting accross.  Past that--as artists, we should always satisfy ourselves first, and stick to our vision of what we want to say! 

This group is like speach therapy for us to help us communicate better.

Sell illustrations to support yourself, and make art for fun in your spare time. ;)

LOL! @ PS!!! Hey I got the market cornered on BFE! I'm in Nevada! Ooooooo! Not so freakin' glamorous when your 45 miles out in the middle of nowhere! Have you tried to do a site for your art? I bet you would get lots of response!!!

Hey Joel! PSP7 is my chosen and favorite photo editing program...I can do lots with it and altho I have PS7, I am still tryingt to learn it... :(

Connie! Your bryce work is awesome!!! And I really like you photography style! I got a Nikon D-50, and I am still trying to convert from film to digital! LOL! I really could use a class in how to shoot this, and I used to have a photography business! I just haven' shot in too many years. Now with the digi...I am all thumbs and such! 

HuggerZ!

Ariana

Well Ariana you have got me on the 45 miles from nowhere, lol, Most of my neighbors are animals and then we have a lot of wild life too.   This week we had a pack of wolves and thier dinner come thru the yard, that was exciting.   The sweet soothing sounds of howling wolves and thier dieing dinner to put you to sleep lol...maybe if you are Bela Lugosi.  I think I would prefer it here in the middle of the woods than in the middle of the desert though.  At least I know whats in the woods here.. big things with lots of teeth and claws, that I can deal with.... and maybe even think about surviving.  Down there you have all the nasty little things that can kill yah before you go DOH!

I can say that I have PSP 9 but I'll be damned if i can figure out all the things i used to be able to do in long long dead versions.  Actually got pretty good at making banners and what not for people.  Now I just add my signature and maybe do minor cosmetic touch ups on pictures but thats about it.

And Yes I agree with Ariana, Connie, I wish I had your eye for photography, your stuff really is Phenominal.  I used to have an ancient 35mm that I would hit all the cemeteries with, god I miss that thing.   I still would rather use a manual 35mm than a digi.  I hate autofocus. BLARG!

Scott

Oh! I'll take old cemetary photos!!! They make for awesome backgrounds! Hey I'll IM you my e-mail and if you have any to spare send them my way! :)  Actually i once wanted to move to canada and raise wolves! I lived in alaska for 5 years and I love the tundra and mountanous forest regions! I have dirt, sand and sage brush. They have a beauty all thier own, but it is mostly early am and dusk that it is prettiest.

HuggerZ!

Ariana

I will see if I can find em, I am kinda in a transitional between moves thing although this transition is taking a bit longer than usual lol.  I will see what i can dig up for yah though.

IM sent!!!

uh oh... You guys are just waaay too kind!
I think I may have some talent with finding a scene, or so I'm told, the rest is just point and shoot, I swear. I bought myself a one of those high lama digital SLR's (Sony's Cybershot series) and the camera does all the work. 
Another thing is... I take lots and lots and lots of photos. Three cameras and about 15,000 digital photos later, mostly of my cats, I have about 6 good photos to show...

Hey Connie, you can't go wrong with cats! My 5 are all hams on the hoof! LOL! I love your peek-a-boo kitty photo!

HuggerZ!

Ariana

I wish I had some nature around me!  I live in a urban dystopia slum area.  Everything is worn out and patched.  The gunfire I heard last night actually was someone being shot to death in my neighborhood.  I'd prefer real wolves as compared to human ones. I'm not just refering to the gangs, but to the cops as well.

I got stopped the other day because they wanted to know what I was doing in my neighborhood.  Not for breaking laws--just because they had power and wanted to throw it around. I feel less safe with the beat cops than I do around my neighbors. Geez.  Living among the poor and destitute in desperate needs is good for my story, at least.

Like they say--write what you know.  When I write of poor people in an Urban DYstopia filled with armed gangs and facist police ruling a polluted surface world where the rich live in indolent luxury in flying cites that prey on anyone not as powerful as them--let's just say I've seen both sides and I write raw from the gut and personal experience through a glass darkly.

@Connie--you cannot go wrong with cats, especially with HAMMY cats! LOLOLOLOL :lol:  You do good works!  I told ya!

Wow Joel! I knew you were a writer!!! You should harness this and make it work for you! You have a very clean, yet poingiant(sp?) style. It is honest and clean. You must start getting those snippets gathered and  publish. I would rather read raw emotion, then fluff about hogwarts (sp?) LOL!

HuggerZ!

Ariana

hmmmmmm... hog snorts..... yeah I prefer your writing Joel.  I have been on both sides of the coin as well.  So like you said, write what you know and in my opinion at least the more raw the better.  Use what you have to grip the Mind and Souls of your readers and take em for a wild ride.  Keep up the good work man, you are workin down the right path and like Ariana said, I'd start lookin up the publishers or even the game companies.

Scott

OH! I forgot about the gaming companies! They are always salavating over a good story line!

Ariana

LOLOLOL, you guys!  You're gonna give me a swelled head!  Thanks! Now if I can get my renders up to snuff to go with the writing! :tt2:  Or vice-versa. ^__^ V,,

YEEAAAAHHHH!!!

Guess what, we have our forum, AND the gallery!

Forum
Gallery
Let's get busy!

Woot!  Nice job Karen.  Thank you very much for the work you have put towards this group.  Much appreciated.

WOOO HOOOO --- HAPPY DANCE !
Thanks for the good work Karen :)

wooooohoooohooo hooooooo Ahm Dancin like a monkey! cough Sorry ZIM! flashback.  awsome news though heh.

**Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Long time in coming, but finally here!** Great work,Karen!

Shoot I already ran over there! ;)

Ariana

Great . I bookmarked!!!!

A forum is a much better concept than the earlier one. I may even start to participate again :)

Were notices sent out to those who have signed up for "Critique Group" so that they know not to go to the normal gallery and critique the images?

Not everyone who signed up frequents this forum and some only came here and signed up because they heard about the group.

When I left the group I sent out PMs and emails to the group members and I got 1/2 way through the list.  I don't know if the other 1/2 know that I'm not a member anymore. I do know that some who I sent PMs and emails to told me that they don't come to the forums and wouldn't have known I had left without my having notified them.

I thought the idea was so that we could BOTH.  You can comment on the gallery and then go to the forum if you think of a way to fix what you pointed out and start a diaglog with the artist!

At least--that's what I'm doing! :lol:

It's my understanding that the critque gallery is for those who want critiquing, and that it's not in the regular galleries anymore.  What't the point of a critique gallery if critiques are stil going to be done in the other galleries?

Which is why I asked if a notification went out to all Critique Members so that they know that if they want critiques as part of the critique group, to post either in the critique forum, or in the critique gallery.