I hat these situations but I have always referred to hair as being "grey". But the word "Gray" also exists and is in common use.

Both seem to be considered valid english spellings, which is not a common occurance in diction. Any thoughts

So what do you think? "grey" or "gray"?

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source gray 1 also grey       (grā)  Pronunciation Key 
adj.   gray·er also grey·er, gray·est also grey·est

1. Of or relating to an achromatic color of any lightness between the extremes of black and white.
2. 1. Dull or dark: a gray, rainy afternoon.
3. Lacking in cheer; gloomy: a gray mood.
4. Having gray hair; hoary.
5. Old or venerable.
6. 1. Having gray hair; hoary.
7. Old or venerable.
8. Intermediate in character or position, as with regard to a subjective matter: the gray area between their differing opinions on the film's morality.

n.   1. An achromatic color of any lightness between the extremes of black and white.

2. An object or animal of the color gray.
3. often Gray1. A member of the Confederate Army in the Civil War.
4. The Confederate Army.

v.   grayed also greyed, gray·ing also grey·ing, grays also greys

v.   tr.
To make gray.

v.   intr.

1. To become gray.
2. 1. To become old; age.
3. To include a large or increasing proportion of older people: "Federal food programs can't keep up with the nation's rapidly graying population" (Michael J. McCarthy).

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Here in Canada we generally use "gray" (british spelling) but grey is commonly used as well.....  The American influence on the Great White North (Bob & Doug McKenzie eh!!!) is ever prevalent!!!

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afaik, "gray" is American, and "grey" is British. I have always used 'grey', but my school teachers always marked it as  a misspelling.

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Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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A quick google shows that gray is more common nowadays. 

I had the impression that grey was the British spelling ...
maybe I'm just thinking of Earl Grey Tea, though. 

If it matters, gray is more likely to be used in the internals
of programming languages, in color-picker routines and such.

(Edit: Now I'm salivating for some Earl Grey, but don't have
any in the house!  Phooey.  Or phooay, as the case mey be.)

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LOL at wheatpenny.  In elementary school I always used "grey" and  "coloured", being a spelling bee champ (although a horrible typist heh) I was horrified to have a teacher mark off points on a paper for my use of  "colour".  So I marched my 8 yr old self up to her desk and explained to her that it was a perfectly valid spelling of the word and handed her my dictionary.

She didn't like me much after that (I was a precocious snot after all) but she never marked my spelling incorrect again.

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There is only one valid way to spell it, and that's "Grey", if you spell it any other way it's wrong :P

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"Grey" is the spelling used in GB and Ireland (& in Aus & NZ, as far as I know) and "gray" is American English and both are valid.   I'd assume that "grey" would be the Canadian spelling, too.   The idea of using Google to check for the corekt  spelynge duzz amyooze me, tho.

As far as I'm aware, Grey is considered the 'more' correct spelling as far as the British version of English goes, as opposed to the American English. However , these days, I think it's pretty interchangeable. BTW..as an aside, I think you'll find more people would consider their surname to be GREY, rather than Gray ??

So, how about "gage" and "gauge"

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source gauge also gage       (gāj)  Pronunciation Key 
n.  

1. 1. A standard or scale of measurement.
2. A standard dimension, quantity, or capacity.
3. The distance between the two rails of a railroad.
4. The distance between two wheels on an axle.
5. An instrument for measuring or testing.
6. A means of estimating or evaluating; a test: a gauge of character. See Synonyms at standard.
7. Nautical The position of a vessel in relation to another vessel and the wind.
8. 1. The distance between the two rails of a railroad.
9. The distance between two wheels on an axle.
10. The interior diameter of a shotgun barrel as determined by the number of lead balls of a size exactly fitting the barrel that are required to make one pound. Often used in combination: a 12-gauge shotgun.
11. The amount of plaster of Paris combined with common plaster to speed setting of the mixture.
12. Thickness or diameter, as of sheet metal or wire.
13. The fineness of knitted cloth as determined by the number of loops per 1 1/2 inches.

tr.v.   gauged also gaged, gaug·ing also gag·ing, gaug·es also gag·es

1. To measure precisely.
2. To determine the capacity, volume, or contents of.
3. To evaluate or judge: gauge a person's ability.
4. To adapt to a specified measurement.
5. To mix (plaster) in specific proportions.
6. To chip or rub (bricks or stones) to size.

I'd rather stay in my lane than lay in my stain!

A gage is a berry fruit and only a gauge is an instrument of measurement :P

 

 

I am American and have always used "grey".  I also have an African Grey parrot and the spelling is correct in that instance also. I have seen "gray", but it just looks wrong to me. :-)

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am curious as to how Acadia knows it is "grey" , you must of been a English grammar teacher i'd guess.

Grey is English
Gray is Americanised English

the only other one i know is:

Colour is English
Color is Americanised English

it's not that strange really as if you drive just 50-100 miles, sometimes less, from where you are anywhere in England, you will encounter a different English accent, and different pronounciation of words, i've always quite liked the different sounds of English accents but as a kid i'd pick them up quickly if i stayed anywhere for a week or two,so if i had been to Rotherham for a week then back in London i'd be saying "are we going down "tut" pub!" which roughly translates as "are we going down the pub"(LOL)

"America and England - Two countries divided by a common language"

Either George Bernard Shaw or Oscar Wilde

 

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There are absolutely loads of tem Vince, armour, humour, favour, pyjamas, and my personal niggle - when referring to a slip of paper that is made out with a momentary value to be paid to the named person or company it is a cheque and not a check.

 

 

LOL! yeah that "check" one would be very confusing to read.

It cranksme straight to serial killer mode everytime I come across it :blushing:

 

 

Originally, both am,erican and british spellings were common in the US. he American spellings became "official" when they  were the only spellings imcluded in the first few editions of Webster's dictionary.
When I was a kid I got this bugt bp my butt thatb British spelling was "more correct" than American spelling and got into the habit of spelling things that way.
(recently I acquired dusl US/Australian citizenship, so I guess my use of that spelling could be considered "appropriate" now :D)

---

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Ach, spelling was only standardised on either side of the ocean some two hundred odd years ago, when Johnson created the first dictionary of the English language during George III's reign. That's why there are differences in spelling between Americans and English - they deviated at a point before standardisation. The idea of one being more 'correct' than the other is purely subjective (I think I might be a rare Brit who has no problems with reading American spellings!)

As a side note to that, this is also why I have no difficulties accepting txtspk - it's jst anutha way 2 compress th lingo dwn 2 an ez 2 undrstnd lvl, aftr al.

jonthecelt

Arrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh, not text speak.  All my text messages are even punctuated correctly and I can't bear the abominations done to the language for texting - l8r is a particular annoyance.

 

 

the only time those textspeak abbreviations bother me is in chatrooms when people uses them in an intellectual discussion or debate. (for some reason it doesn't look right  '2 C' a scientific lecture or a defense of a philosophical position spelled that way)

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Jeff

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Just a footnote.  As an Englishman it's not "UK English" and "American English" it is English, and American English.  ;¬)

Most American English seems to be an attempt to simplify spellings and turn them into a more phonetic vairiant.  For instance...theater for theatre, color for colour, and (the point in case) gray for grey.  I could never work out how you changed lift into elevator, flat into apartment, and trousers into pants though. :biggrin:

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

well the last one is understandable (changing a longer word for a shorter one), but why the hell did we ever dump those nice short words for three-syllable replacements

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fawcet for tap coughs

 

 

At least in terms of grammar and phrasing, American is actually the
more preservative and British is the one that has changed.  If you
look at newspapers on both sides of the pond from 1720 or so, they
look similar... and they are both closer to modern American than
to modern British.

This is typical of languages in general.  More change happens
in the 'motherland', while separated or isolated communities tend
to hold steady.

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Also, when I was studying for my degree in Modern languages, I took a couple of classes on the history of English, and accordign to them, in the 1600s English was pronounced similar to the way it is in America (that's where we got it from. it was pronounced that way when the brits founded the american colonies in the early 1600s and when British pronunciation changed, American pronunciation didn't change with it.

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I always thought gray was american and grey was British. I was tought to spell gray in the states but my Canadian spell check wants the color gray to be the colour grey.  I always heard that 17th century British English sounded more like the broague of the New England Yankees or even the Apalachian Mountain People then the speach of modern London. I have noticed that British people are sounding more and more like Australians to my ear... I can now only understand about half the characters on the British TV show Coronation Street when they speak. I have read a number of studies that claim that the North Western Standard used on American television is pushing regional dialects to become more prounouced in the US. I have seen that English speaking Canadians, especially those in the media, are adopting a more pronounced Canadian accent that when I was a kid was mainly a characature or joke. They are also adopting an Anglophile vocabulary and avoiding certain "American words"  which were once commonplaceand substituting Britishwords in their place. An accent I find interesting is the Alophone accent of Montreal, it is used by English speakers of non-British hertitage even if they are born and reared speking English only... it sounds sort of like an Eastern European accent but I know lots of people from Mediteranian and Middle Eastern families who have it. The Canadian accent that is really mysterious to me is the Acadian accent, these are native french speakers who sound like they come from the American  South, I have heard them complain of being identified as Americans by French speakers in Montereal who do not belive they are actually Francophones. As part of the push to make French Canada a truly french society they are adopting standard Buisness French more in line with Europen French and turning away from traditional Quebec French... I heard on the radio about a small island fishing community where the people speak an old dying form of French but when the people spoke it was the standard Quebecoise of thirty or forty years ago that you would have heard from nearly anyone in Montereal. Lately I have noticed that the speach of actresses in American movies from the ninteen eighties is starting to sound as stylized as that of actresses in the nineen forties!

  Well... comes into conversation late... grey Vs. gray....... I tent to differentiate them as grey... mood and gray... colour...... Actually, both are acceptable, technically, in either usage.......  but if you want something really annoying... try watching anything where they are discussing nuclear anything...... if it's an american.... even a news anchor, but especially "our wonderfully edumacated pollyticians" you almost always get "Nucular"... they pronounce it new-cue-ler. ARGH! it's like some kind of disease!.... Lou.

"..... and that was when things got interestiing."

But NUKE-ULER sounds so tough talk'n compared to the mincing "neu-klee-ar". Oh my, only people with lie-burry cards would say it the way you advocate.

fawcet - is that some new UK spelling?
the word is faucet as far as I know

FAWCET is an acronym (I'm not making this up): Flat Aperture Waveguide Sidewall Emitting Twistreflector

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The English language in America is hybridized from the cross-germination of all the languages that have been assimilated into America.  Right now the hybridation includes Spanglish, the odd amalgam of Latino Spanish and American English.

 

It's the nature of language to change or evolve over time.  Otherwise, we'd all be speaking classic Latin!  Some of the classic Latin scholars, before of the Roman Empire complained loudly and longly about the bastardization and corruption of the mother language by the Gauls and Germanics into an unrecognizable form.

 

Ya know--they might have been right. :lol:

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English is not my first  language and I had a terrible time with spelling at school learning it as a forein language . I lived  a lot of years in the US and in the UK,so it was very liberating to find out about the different versions of spellings. Now I just spell things as I like - surely  it will be right in some version or other... (Or is it that I am always wrong in one version or other?)
My daughter(raised in the UK) spent a term in a US university and was always asked to "say something English"  and she would teach them how to say various rude words in a "proper"  English pronounciation...
In addition to spelling there is also the confusion of different words for the same thing,and same words for different things.Like - torch/flashlight; bonnet/hood;pavement/sidewalk; elevetor/lift; flat/appartment etc. The funniest is trousers/pants - americans use pants for an outer garment,but in england that's the word for underware!

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Not my fault I can;t spell words we don;t even have here sniffles  Could have been worse, I could have spelt it forceit :tongue2:

 

 

Fwcatt is the name of a publishing  company. and also the city that Captain Marvel lives in. (the DC captain marvel, not the Marvel one)

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**Aah, the English language!
'Grey' is the true English way of spelling it, although we understand that North Americans can spell it differently as with other words like color, neighbor, center etc. In todays age  true English has just been broken up because of accents, dialects etc. Texting has just broken this down even further, I too try to write properly even in a text message.

**"I can now only understand about half the characters on the British TV show Coronation Street when they speak"
**I come from Manchester where Coronation Street is filmed, even I can't understand half the things they say! Only joking, but just to go a few miles in either direction from here & the dialects change so much, it could be a different language, LOL!

**"The English language in America is hybridized from the cross-germination of all the languages that have been assimilated into America.  Right now the hybridation includes Spanglish, the odd amalgam of Latino Spanish and American English."
English itself comes from many different languages, Germanic having a big influence on old English.

  Not my fault I can;t spell words we don;t even have here sniffles  Could have been worse, I could have spelt it forceit

  That's what YOU think....... yer just talkin' "Ebonic street" ( ACTUALLY RECOGNISED by most of the U.S. school systems as legitimate!) Lou.

"..... and that was when things got interestiing."

English is originally a Germanic language, descended from the Low German group, which also includes Dutch and Afrikaans. During the late medieval and early modern era there was heavy influence from Old French. Most of the words of Latin and Greek origin enterd English thru Old French around that time.
English departed more from its Germanic roots than any of the other Germanic languages

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It's best to start talking in your local dialect and then you can confuse everyone.  I swear proper Lancastrian is closely related to Celtic as my father-in-law is a proper Glaswegian docker with accent and slang and all and I understand him perfectly because my Great Grandmother was my chief babysitter before I reached school age and I am on of the few peple under the age of 70 who actually understands some of the worst excesses of the language.  Even my hubby says I'm easier to understand when I speak in Lanky cos it is like his boyhood Glaswegian (proper tenement building he coems from too).

Uh Oh I tink may have to start avoiding Stormchaser from now on...........not a red are you gulps

 

 

"Uh Oh I tink may have to start avoiding Stormchaser from now on...........not a red are you gulps"
Valerian70 - This doesn't mean you're a blue does it?!!! Yes, I'm a United fan. I actually live in the south of Manchester, in Cheshire, so I like to think of myself of being on the posh side of Manchester! Talking of Glaswegian, that sure is an amazingly strong accent. A friend at work is from Glasgow so I too now understand some of their sayings. He tells me that he waters it down for us here, apparently when he goes back to Glasgow & sees his mates he says I wouldn't understand a word of it!

I only really know Dockers Glaswegian and my father-in-law has it real strong when he's had a pint or two - they've back "up the road" now so undoubtedly he's back to sinking pints of heavy........lol.

Worse than being a blue I support the "other" reds - and I don;t mean Arsenal shudders  You know, the ones that face Chelsea in the next round of the Champions League  - I have a MAJOR sense of Deja Vu about it all.................lol

EDIT: Oh and Cheshir eis posh compared to Manc, I did a Biology degree at Manchester Uni and had the misfortune of living in Wythenshawe for a while - only just in Wythenshawe too, was a darn sight nearer Rusholme.

 

 

Valerian70 - Oh, so you're a Liverpool fan!!! I'll tell you something, I really want to play you in the Champions League final. Two of the most historic teams in football playing each other for the ultimate prize, this would be one of the biggest games in English history, oh I can see it now. The bragging rights for the winner here would last a long time!!
Wythenshawe, it's not far from me. I like your term 'misfortune'. I think we'll leave it at that, LOL!

I'm originally from mid-western Canada, but back in 2001 I moved to California and lived and worked there for three years.  part of my job involved updating and editting a website on a daily basis.

My employer was a former school teacher from New York.

Can you imagine how often he lost his mind at my "Canadian" spellings?

Let's not even mention the huge learning curve when I had to go from Metric to Imperial.  I still can't wrap my head around fahrenheit!!

The funny part, though is the accent.  For the most part no one had trouble with the way I spoke.  Most people thought I was a native Californian.  There were a few words that I pronounced differently.  "Pasta" stands out in my mind and I always grew up saying "pop", but down there it's "soda".

Oh, and when I'm under the heavy influence of intoxicants, apparently I say "eh" a lot. LOL.

Grrrrrrr.....................the ebots have got lost in Cyberspace :o|

Of course I'm a Liverpool fan - why would anyone support anyone else ;o)  I sometimes wonder why I am still supporting them but I guess I'm hooked - don;t set me off on Rafa else we'll be here well into 2009.  Not only would it make for a fantastic game but it would really shake UEFA up two teams from the same country through - egads.  Although as there are 3 out of the final 4 from here then I think it speaks volumes.

I can't understand mtric for the life of me and they taught strictly in metric at school and a few years back we officially "dumped" imperial for most things - a pint is still a pint (thank goodness!).  My brain is hardcoded for imperial though so I don;t think I'll ever get the hang ofthis newfangled metric thing.

 

 

**I still generally prefer to use imperial. I did learn both at school but imperial just stuck with me more.

Regarding words & phrases in different countries, the ones that get me are the ones that have different meanings. Take 'fanny' for instance. A friend of mine had her friends come over from the States one time & one of them said to her "Sit your fanny down". It brought a few chuckles I can tell you, LOL!

Valerian70 - Question for you, please answer honestly. Who would you rather win the league title, the magical play of United or the grinders of Chelsea?**

Grey is a colour to me and Grays is where i live, tis that simple to me....lol (yep i really live in Grays, its in the UK)

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

While we're thread-drifting a tad...I'm Liverpool supporter too, and have been for the last 40+ years.
My Dad supports Arsenal, and still reckons "his" Frenchmen speak better English than our Scousers.

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

Liverpool to do the double over AC Milan.

I don't have any ancestral connections with Liverpool, but I was brought up on the outskirts.   I realised only recently where the Liverpool accent came from.   It always seemed weird that people connected the Liverpudlian accent to Lancastrian and Irish, neither of which sounds very much like Liverpudlian (although it made perfect sense to assume that Irish and local English accents would have had a major influence).   I actually believe that Liverpool's accent is from North Wales.   Liverpool is really the biggest Welsh city, except that it happens to be in England.   The accent of the North Wales coast is monumentally strange and Scouse is a slightly less extreme version of the North Welsh accent.

Every now and again, some genius suggests that people should be permitted to spell English (and any other language, presumably, by implication) however they want.   Unless you have some basic spelling rules, however, one person's prose is another's gobbledygook.   If you are going to have rules, you may as well have set spellings, even if some of the established spellings vary very slightly by territory.  If English spelling were to vary according to local accent, the result would be Bedlam.

Accents are very strange, anyway.   It's certainly true that GB and Ireland have a huge range of accents.   I think you'll find the same range in France, Germany, or Italy, but not, perhaps, in Canada or Australia, despite the huge distances.   I think I can tell Alabama from New Jersey, just about,  but is there such a thing as a Colorado accent?   A New Zealand accent  can be told from an Australian one by a sensitive ear, but a Kiwi friend of mine, having lived consecutively in NSW and London, can no longer distinguish a fellow-countryman from an Australian.

I didn't get any ebots on this.

Well I have checked many refferences and asked many people and have decided to default to the one source of knowledge that is absolute and beyond reproach...

The Sci-Fi Channel.

"Grey" (n). a small grey colored alien.

Good enough for me. :)

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I pride myself on my correct English both spelling and speaking. I still to this day ask with "May I" instead of "Can I". Text speak is horrid. It teaches our children nothing except laziness. (I'm like Valerian and even use punctuation LOL)

As for metric and imperial ... how long do we hold onto the past? Metric is the only way to go  - my generation was never taught imperial. Everything here uses metric with the exception of baby weight ... how weird is that? I still don't know how much my kids weighed at birth in metric LOL

Australia doesn't really have any accent differences. There are some slight inflections I pick up from Western Aussies but they are very slight. The Kiwi's are quite similiar to us, with only a few words showing they are a completely different country (six, broom and fish for example).

My brain just doesn;t work in metric and we use measurements a lot in the AC and Refrigeration indusry and I have to do rapid mental approximatiojns from the metric to the imperial to figure out the piperuns and stuff for the engineers.  The thing that really baffles me is copper pipe is sold in 3m or 6m lengths but with diameters of 5/8" etc.  Talk about designed to confuse!

I permanently correct everyone's spoken grammar, so much so it has become a standing joke at work.  My biggest bugbear is soandso and me in instances where it should be soandso and I, must spend half my life correcting that one.  I am also big on manners and can't stand it when people ignore the basics of please and thank you.

As for the footie I'm with Morgano on this one - Liverpool to do the double over AC Milan, but NOT in the same way we did at Istanbul - I couldn't speak above a croak on the Thursday after that particular match blush

Looks like you are outnumbered by a rousing chorus of You'll Never Walk Alone stormchaser

 

 

Valerian, I totally agee with you on manners. There's just no excuse not to use them. My kids must have gotten sick of me saying 'please and thankyou', but it has worked, and I often get complimented on how nice their manners are :) My youngest (he's 11) even opens doors for ladies :D

It's noce to know I'm not the only one who corrects others on me and I. It's annoying coming out of the kids mouths, but WAY more aggravating when adults who know better do it.

**England really is a small place with so many different accents. Take Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Newcastle, Birmingham, London, Bristol, Plymouth etc, I'm amazed that just travelling a few miles you can end up in a place where it becomes like another language!
I used to find it funny when Americans would talk cockney when they were doing an English accent on tv, I got the impression that's how people thought everyone in England spoke!

OK, Liverpool fans out there. Did you watch United's demolition of Roma the other night? Do you really think you've now got a chance?!!**

**Manners I agree are so important, I was brought up with them. People actually told me when I was younger that I was too polite, is there such a thing?! I probably go too far with this as I never swear in front of my sisters or parents, I don't know why, it's just something I've never done. I'm terrible when in the right company though, all the expletives come out!! **

No you can never be too polite and I'm heartened to know that I'm not the only one that corrects people when they get it wrong.  I even correct my boss (the company owner) when he does it because it is just such an automatic knee jerk reaction with me now.  Although it does seem a little incongrous as I have a real potty mouth.

Roma are tuppence ha'penny so it was hardly a demolishing :tongue2:

 

 

Divided by a common language again lol.

But actually, Gray/Grey drives me NUTS because I never know which is which lol.

Momodot, you forget that Canada is part of the commonwealth and therefore subject to British... stuff, even though it's not under British rule. I'd guess that includes spelling and would explain why a canadian spellchecker wants the colour spelled grey.

I think I'm going to remember it this way:

GrAy - American
GrEy - English

Make sense?

BTW I don't have that problem with Color / Colour. I always know which is UK and which is American, but grey and gray is going to be what's causing me to reach for Miss Clairol!

Silke

Quote - I pride myself on my correct English both spelling and speaking. I still to this day ask with "May I" instead of "Can I". Text speak is horrid. It teaches our children nothing except laziness. (I'm like Valerian and even use punctuation LOL)

As for metric and imperial ... how long do we hold onto the past? Metric is the only way to go  - my generation was never taught imperial. Everything here uses metric with the exception of baby weight ... how weird is that? I still don't know how much my kids weighed at birth in metric LOL

 

Hang on... so language must remain stagnant and stuck in one fixed state, whilst our systems of measurement can evolve and change?

Don't get me wrong... I use (more or less) full words when texting, and I use punctuation. About the only thing I'm guilty of is possible over-use of the llipsis, because I use it to indicate my train of thought. ButI don't subject others to the same rules I do myself. Similarly, the may I/can I debate - one is the more established, 'grammatically correct' version, but the other is now accepted as vernacularly acceptable.

Languages evolve; words are invented and die; phrases pass in and out of usage; new ways of speaking and spelling are adopted. If culture is to be allowed to move forward and change, then we have to accept that our language will do so too. 

Just to put this further into context - I'm an actor, and a director, and a playwright. I love the English language - from chaucer to shakespeare to Milton to Pratchett - but can anyone honestly say that any of these great writers really wrote in anything like the same way? Or used the same grammatical phrases? Or the same vernacular? If the language has been allowed to evolve so much over the last thousand years, while do we have to stagnate it now?

jonthecelt

I wasn't saying anything should be stagnant, rather that I personally use the language as my generation was taught (which is correct for me but may not be for others). I didn't mean to imply that anything else was wrong. Sorry about that :)
Language can evolve however it pleases, as long as I don't have to use text speak in everyday conversation :^P

A fair point, Xena. For what it's worth, I cant' see txtspk ever becoming a valid part of spoken language. In much the same way that vernacular and written English are different beasts (in 'proper' written language, contractions shouldn't be used, and the flow is more formal - when was the last time you read a novel or other written work which was compeltely written in a vernacular, oral style?), then I think txtspk has its own realm of influence.

It is possible that txtspk will slowly ancroach on written language, though, with the latter giving some concessions to the former's speed and ease of use. 

Another startling thing I've read at some point is that one reason why illiteracy is beginning to grow again in the West is because we are increasingly becoming an icon-basec ulture once more. Many of the things we recognise are based around logos or symbols, especially in the consumer world. do we really need to see the word 'Windows' to recognise the Microsoft OS logo? Or the word McDonalds under the golden arches? Many of our computer programs, too, use icon-based buttons to replicate something that can also be done via text-based menus. Those buttons could be textual rather than icon-based, but our minds work better with pictures. Someone posited that with the advent of txtspk and the increasing prevalence of the icon in our culture, we could be heading backward to a non-textual form of written communication again. It's an interesting theory, although I don't think I'll be around long enough to find out if it's true. :)

jonthecelt

That sure is an interesting theory. My father (62) has been using computers now for about 4 years and he has a tendancy to use the buttons. When explaining things to him I always have to refer to the 'little pictures' on his taskbar rolls eyes Never fails to amuse him how aggravated I get when he doesn't understand "Dad, go to File then Print", but understands "Push the little button that looks like a printer Dad." I sometimes wonder if he does it on purpose :)

Actually, I think it's closer to human - or organic - nature. Text is actually a highyl abstract method of communication, when you think about it. An icon is simple, and crosses most language barriers - a printer is a printer, no matter whether you come from America, France, or Japan. Granted, some icons might have greater cultural significance in some cultures than others - that's what semiotics and semiology is about. But we are a visual and oral species. We see things - and hear things - and talk bout them. Text is able to get more nuance out of visual communicatoin than simple iconogrphy, but for basic statements, icons are able to get the message across to more people from more cultures with less ambiguity than any level of textual translation could.

jonthecelt

I tend to correct people' spelling in chatrooms I habg out in.  Of course, being a professional linguist (I recently completed my PhD in Modern languages), that kinda comes with the territory.
But, being as I am  somewhat dyslexic, I'm also the "typo king", so the use of txtspeak actually makes sense (fewer lettrs to make typos with). I don't use it myself because all those years studying langiages got me into this nasty habit of spelling things right and using things like grammar and syntax, etc...

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Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

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Late to the table because of two computers konking out the last couple of weeks.  I was taught "grey" in school and university in a former colony of Britain, and also while doing my Ph D in the UK.

Eternal Hobbyist

 

Arcadia is right!

Quote - There is only one valid way to spell it, and that's "Grey", if you spell it any other way it's wrong :P

How do I know she is right? If I look in the mirror I can see that my hair is grey, not gray!

Attached Link: http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/cp_grey_alien_bundle_product_19882

Hmmm...I me thinks it's "grey" because that's what the grey alien at CP prefers. :blink: :biggrin:  

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

"May" versus "might" versus  "can" versus "could" is not a question of  choice.   It boils down to fundamental meaning.   Compare these:

"I can photograph Peter Rabbit."

That means that I have the power to photograph Peter Rabbit.

"I could photograph Peter Rabbit."

My current state of mind doesn't dispose me to photograph Mr. Rabbit, but, in other circumstances, Iit would be possible for me to photograph him.

"I may photograph Peter Rabbit."

That means that I am thinking of photographing PR, but have yet to decide whether to do so.

"I might photograph Peter Rabbit."   

I am thinking of photographing Peter Rabbit, but whether or not I photograph Peter Rabbit is conditional on something else.

The differences are subtle, but they are priceless.   If we lose the ability to differentiate among "can", "could", "may" and "might", English surrenders a huge amount of its ability to express itself.

You are technically correct, Morgano, as far as 'proper' English usage goes. However, one has to accept that the vernacular English is also equally valid. Allowing 'can', 'may', 'might', and 'could to have an overlapping meaning doesn't remove the original sense - it simply adds further nuance to the language. One of the reasons why English poetry and literature works so well is because, due to its many linguistic roots (and geniuses like Shakespeare, who simply made up words when there wer enone that worked for him), the language is flooded with synonyms. 'Pale' and 'wan', 'jaded' or 'cynical' or 'disillusioned', just to think of a few off the top of my head... these are all words that can be interchanged, yet have subtle meaning differences between them, and yet no-one could claim that, just because we sometimes use one and not another, we have lost the ability to express ourselves. If anything, the wider range of synonyms and blended definitons gives us more expressive power.

jonthecelt

This is so funny! I just sent an email to a friend in the States and I said that the weather here was still grey and damp... Then I wondered if I had it spelled right. See I am French speaking and from Québec. I learned British English at school and here in Canada we use English spelling. But I've seen the word "grey" spelled "gray" very often in my correspondance with English speaking friends and I always wonder which is correct. From what I've read here, both are correct. It's the same with neighbourhood and neighborhood and many other words like that.  I guess as long as we understand each other, it doesn't really matter, heh? ;o)

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It's like double negatives. The grammar people always calim that double negaitves cancel each other out and make a positive. Although that makes sense logically, it doesn't really work that way (or at ;east I've nver heard  of abyone who took it that way whenb they heard someone else  use a double negative.
Many other languages use double negatives.

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Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

When I was a kid if  I asked my mother ,"Can you make a sandwhich for me?" She would always say "Yes, I can."  and keep doing whatever she was doing. If I said "Would you make me a sandwhich?" she would zap me with her finger and say, "PUFF! You are a sandwhich."

What I can't stand is when I see someone say "Do you mind if I sit down here?" and the other person says, "Yes, of course." then the first person says, "Thank you." and sits down. I see this constantly on TV as well.

I hate the use of "How do you do?" in place of hello in North America. A person will respond "How do you do?" to a person who has said to them "How do you do?" and the exchange is complete.

 With all my education in the area of language, I should be a real "grammar-nazi" but for some reason I'm not. I guess it's ecause I always hated when parents and teachers did that when I was a kid, pretending to misunderstand you when you make grammar/syntax errors.  So all these technically incorrect things peopole say never bother me. except for spelling.
I regularly hang out in yahoo chat rooms and it really drives me up the wall when peopel say that something doesn't make "since",  or when people mix up "there" , they''re " and "their"
The funniest one was (on an AOL message board) when someone relied to someone else's post with "your retarted" ( a 2 word insult, both words misspelled).
Beinf  dyslexic, I  should be more patient with othr peopel's spelling, but I suspect that frustratioin with my own spelling problem contributes to being bothered so much by it.
i dunno
so say what you want, double negatives, can instead of may, etc, but for gods sake, spell it right.. :lol:

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Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

Speaking of things moving on - a Poser forum thread with "Grey" in the title is a clunky diatribe about the origins of language instead of a splendid flame fest about the origins of Renderosity.

Ahh, it all seemed so real and vital then, but now it's just so much popcorn under the bridge; a mere Will o' the wisp. ;-)
.

I just saw a movie about "Hillbilies" Ozark Mountain People some of whom I knew in Alaska and some in Misora and they were using archaic vocabulary in addition to having the accent as had the people I met to a lesser degree.

I suppose that "technically correct" is a long-winded form of "correct"     ¬:)

Language is interesting in relation to etiquette defined partially as...

"the code of ethical behavior regarding professional practice or action among the members of a profession in their dealings with each other"*
The key there is ethical behaviour which sadly has been replaced in today's society with clever maneuvering. Emily Post once wrote that manners and etiquette fundamentally exist to make others feel comfortable and at ease in awkward situations.

This is ironic since sadly the intent of etiquette was perverted into a weapon to imply superiority and assert power in society last century and before. Being polite implies sincerity. Lack of sincerity might but observing manners might be best described as being "civil".

I with I could remember the author and proper wording of this next quote. I might have been Twain. Anyway someone once said and I am loosely paraphrasing....

* "a lie is the ultimate sin as it perverts the very intent of language, upon which civilization is based,  which is to convey meaning and truth".*
My new favorite word is "behoove"

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

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Gray is for a warm gray. Grey is for a cool or neutral grey.

Ettiquette is not about knowing which fork to use but about knowing not to notice when someone else doesn't.

Attached Link: Definition of etiquette per Wiktionary

**etiquette**

1. The forms required by good breeding, or prescribed by authority, to be observed in social or official life; observance of the proprieties of rank and occasion; conventional decorum; ceremonial code of polite society.
2. The customary behavior of members of a profession, business, law, or sports team towards each other.

I know a bank where the wild thyme blows,
Where oxlips and the nodding violet grows,
Quite over-canopied with luscious woodbine,
With sweet musk-roses and with eglantine.

This discription seems to somehow (for me) relate professional courtesy to professional ethics... it is interesting to contemplate the notion that personal courtesy is somehow related to personal ethics.

Or am I mis-reading given that the customary behavior of members of a profession, business, law, or sports team towards each other can be both unscrupulous and unpleasent?