I just checked in Daz3d and other 3d communities for some items I like to get with V4, then upon going to Daz, it seems that they have updated V4 to V4.1...

Just thought I throw that one out to anyone interested in it.

New with V 4.1 Base is the new Vismenes compatible for Mimic (3.0.3) and all other good stuff in their site. The Morphs ++ and the Complete Versions seem to have improvements which is all in their site.

Maybe they would send update infos for those who purchased her through version 4.0
Just wanted to give out the heads up.

Cheerio,

P.S: It has been updated and all info is mentioned in their forums.

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=57491

Finally, they have V4 Muscle Morphs, and its Maps (seprarately) which are on sale. The Complete Morphs and Maps on sale until April 25.

Check it out.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Asus N50-600 - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home/11 upgrade 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 1TB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x

jlovesart2 - Thanks for the heads up. Finally the muscle morphs, I've waited so long for these!

Exactly.

I got both V4 Base and Morphs ++ updated from 4.1.

So many stuff they have (I would like to say) improved. Her face morphs have some details - I just can't put two and two together with Define morphs (e.g.: Cheeks Define or Brow Define or Lip Define). Something new they done put together. As it stands, the body morphs hasn't changed. This is in terms to Morphs ++ I bought.

Finally, they have an Eyebrow Feature -- No more working with the Material nodes to make brow transparencies. That's what I like.

So, I thought I let all Viky-ites know about this.

On a side note, it won't override with 4.0 -- also a just in case.

Well, I'm off to bed -- early in the morning that is.

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Thanks for the heads up... ohhh i hope the eyebrow is similar to the V3 geometery (seperate area)
im off to reset my downloads (smiles)

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Thank you, I am off to download it too ^.^

heyas :) there are LOTS of questions popping up about this update installer.
check the thread link below in case your problem is shared by others and hopefully they have been answered... haha ;)
ask questions here: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=57491

[ Store | Freebies | Profile ]

a sweet disorder in the dress kindles in clothes a wantoness,
do more bewitch me than when art is too precise in every part

ok ive downloaded the new V4.1 and at first i thought the eyebrow was useless....
First you have to make it visible in your renders...lol....otherwise you cant see it...
and all the morphs are controlled by the head, the only problem i have found is that after this update (i bought the V4 Pro bundle) they did not update the textures, so i have no eyebrow textures, which means it will have to remain invisible until some start appearing....lol
i would have though daz would have thought of that....lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

This whole thing with V4.1 is a goddamn fiasco. DAZ apparently forgot who the people giving them money are: the end users who purchase their content. DAZ's going on and on about how the new V4.1 makes it easier for Content Creators to do this and that and how they don't have to worry about conflicts with other morphs and blah blah blah. However, the end result is that they've created a figure that's a royal pain in the ass to actually use. You can't even install her or any of her morphs (or future morphs even!) to an external runtime. It's enough to make me move to the awesome G2 figures.

Jesus Christ, I wish I knew who was making the decisions over there so I could slap them...

¤~Giolon~¤

¤~ RadiantCG ~¤~ My Renderosity Gallery ~¤

I am beginning to think that it's All About DS.
Make it as difficult as possible for Poser Users and maybe they will try out DS.

Sorry, Not Happening DAz.
If this is they road they are headed down, my $$$s are all going elswhere.

Maybe they should have thought about something more along the lines of Anton's "Apollo ADS System"????????????????
Sure is simple to use.

Quote - This whole thing with V4.1 is a goddamn fiasco. DAZ apparently forgot who the people giving them money are: the end users who purchase their content. DAZ's going on and on about how the new V4.1 makes it easier for Content Creators to do this and that and how they don't have to worry about conflicts with other morphs and blah blah blah. However, the end result is that they've created a figure that's a royal pain in the ass to actually use. You can't even install her or any of her morphs (or future morphs even!) to an external runtime. It's enough to make me move to the awesome G2 figures.

Jesus Christ, I wish I knew who was making the decisions over there so I could slap them...

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

I just spent a couple hours combining runtimes together for this only to find out in their forums that its only the !Daz library folder and not the V4 character herself that needs to be in the Poser main runtime... would have been nice if they included that info in the V4.1 download. What a waste of my time and now Poser loads half as fast :(

Giolon wrote: "You can't even install her or any of her morphs (or future morphs even!) to an external runtime." That's WRONG. You CAN install her or any of her morphs or future morphs to an external runtime. As Farside said, it's only the !Daz library folder that needs to be in the Poser main runtime, JUST LIKE V3. Giolon wrote: "Jesus Christ, I wish I knew who was making the decisions over there so I could slap them..." Jesus Christ, I wish you would get your facts straight before you go on a uninformed rant. Coldrake

:b_funny: ROTFLMAO ...Where have I seen that before? hmmm... giggles
I'll have to pick this update up tomorrow. Thanks.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Quote - Giolon wrote: "You can't even install her or any of her morphs (or future morphs even!) to an external runtime." That's WRONG. You CAN install her or any of her morphs or future morphs to an external runtime. As Farside said, it's only the !Daz library folder that needs to be in the Poser main runtime, JUST LIKE V3. Giolon wrote: "Jesus Christ, I wish I knew who was making the decisions over there so I could slap them..." Jesus Christ, I wish you would get your facts straight before you go on a uninformed rant. Coldrake

V3 doesn't require her !DAZ files to be in the main runtime in either Poser 6 or Poser 7. There was an issue with P5 but it was resolved in later versions. And yes, information has since been released in the DAZ forums that only the !DAZ files need to be in the main runtime (but it's not what they said initially).

However, when installing additional V4 content, its !DAZ files must be put in the same place as V4's: in the default runtime. This either requires manual movement of the files (blegh) or installing the whole shebang into the default runtime as well (bloats it, slows down Poser start up as mentioned by Farside also). Not to mention you ahve to run an additional batch file to make the thing work for every piece of morph content for it that you install. The main point is why are they making things harder to use instead of easier?

Edit: Yep, anton, they finally gave her a separate brow material. That's the one nearly redeeming feature of this .1 release...

¤~Giolon~¤

¤~ RadiantCG ~¤~ My Renderosity Gallery ~¤

I didn't think Daz’s ‘borrowing’ of Anton’s Apollo concepts could get any more gratuitous. How naïve of me.

I just wish there was an alternative to V4 that wasn’t horribly limited (G2 females, I’m looking at you…bleh!).

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards...checkmate!

lol. His works with all his morphs at least.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I've spent over $750 on V4 so far and to this point I haven't created one character for her yet that I'd use in one of my projects... I always revert back to V3.

The new Vicky is just a plain Jane character that's really lacking to this point and really should have been the replacement for S3P instead of Vicky (she's a smaller, younger character with limited morphs just like S3P). Adding the new muscle morphs helps (although I'm pissed that Daz3D wants us to pay for these morphs that SHOULD have come in the morphs++ package) but she's still missing around 50-75 face morphs that would make her really usable.

I really hate to say it but I also hope Daz3D steals Apollo's scale abilities too so V4 can get the correct body type she should have come with instead of Steffy's.

Quote - I really hate to say it but I also hope Daz steals Apollo's scale abilities too so V4 can get the correct body type she should have come with instead of Steffy's.

Shame on you.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

yup, sadly your skills is all that could save V4... you wouldn't consider going back to working for them again would you??? :)

I downloaded it and bought the muscle morphs. I'm not happy with having to install it in my Poser Runtime instead of the external one I wanted it to go to.
I'm seriously considering deleting them and asking for my money back on the muscle morphs.
And I have never asked for a refund on a Poser product in my life.

I just downloaded my V4 update and gag, she comes with nasty-looking painted hair and undies painted on her!!!!! This is censorship gone mad!!!! I deleted her and used my original V4 who is working fine. I also use V3. Dave Hoadley's remapped PosetteV3 also looks darn good. Anton, we all love Apollo! Wish you would make a girl.

any mac user gotten her to launch? I have updated to v4.1 and so far i have not been aable to get her to launch. I get the following error.. please locate "V4BODYGrps.pz2" when i cant find that on my hd or in the runtime folder created by the installers I select continue without loking further. and then i get a series of error messages like could not find...V4BodyGrps.pz2, V4BodyChnnls.pz2, V4HipGrps.pz2, V4hipchannls.pz2... this goes on and on in these mysterious pairs until I force quit poser. When I look in the !DAZ/Victoria 4/folders I see all sorts of odd names like 00-ps_pe069_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2, 00-ps_pe069_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2 and 03-ps_pe069_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2, 03-ps_pe069_DAZ_ERC.pz2, 03-ps_pe069_DAZ_Grps.pz2. I'm using poser 6 sr 2 and yes everything that came with the update was installed in the internal runtime. I think Daz has sent out defective files again.

sorry ment to say using poser 6 sr3 also i did a little research and there's at least 1 other mac user on the daz forum claiming to have the same problem. And after looking at the product list for V4.1 base and morphs there are no files named V4BodyGrps.pz2, V4BodyChnnls.pz2, V4HipGrps.pz2, V4hipchannls.pz2 that are to be istlled with these updates. I also run into the problem using the V4.1 to V3 character.

Otaku, after you install all the files there is an icon that loads to the desktop that says "Update Victoria 4.1" and "Update V4.1 to V3". Those are the additional updaters. The batch files for the updaters will be located in your "Runtime/libraries/!DAZ/Victoria 4 folder (if there are no icons loaded on your desktop).

****

On the eyebrow thing, I think Seraphira was using something along that line as well, with the "Multiple Layering System" she was putting into her Project Kaimira model ... which was fantastic. I think she had posts on it in the Developer's forum around 2004-2005, and it had quite a few additional layers over the skin for tattoos, details, etc.

She lost the whole deal in a hard drive crash due to a virus. Pity, too, because it looked really promising.

Oh sure. :) I am sure that is why they waited till 2007. LOL Denise. ANy ideas from 1957 they are also waiting for me to do before they finally do it? lol

Out of curiosity, I would love a link to that. :) People are so vague on comparisons and dates. Did Seraphira do posable teeth palettes and a face of the scalp map too? Any half decade old posts those are based on?

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=2665567&ebot_calc_page#message_2665567

> Quote - On the eyebrow thing, I think Seraphira was using something along that line as well, with the "Multiple Layering System" she was putting into her Project Kaimira model ... which was fantastic. I think she had posts on it in the Developer's forum around 2004-2005, and it had quite a few additional layers over the skin for tattoos, details, etc. > > She lost the whole deal in a hard drive crash due to a virus. Pity, too, because it looked really promising.

You are not going to believe this. I think this is the first time the search engine here has ever worked for me. :blink:

Is this the one?
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=2665567&ebot_calc_page#message_2665567

One from July 2005. (Wow)
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=2312946&ebot_calc_page#message_2312946

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

:) Yeah that was later. I modelled Apollo October-Dec 2003. First post was January 2004. Was on Morphs by Valentine's day. Projects were unrelated.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=1687433

Did she ever finish it? It looked very nice.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Lol - Anton, do we really need more than one guess????????????? Looks like and exact Spin off to me.

Quote - :b_funny: ROTFLMAO ...Where have I seen that before? hmmm... giggles
I'll have to pick this update up tomorrow. Thanks.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Didn't you know? Techically I have never come up with anything according to some. They have just been waiting 10 years to putit all together. hehe

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

No, unfortunately not. Apart from the crash there were health problems and she disappeared from view. I still have the complete threads with all of her images and progression somewhere. But where?

The first Kaimira was much more finished (before that crash). I'll look it up.

It is never a good sign when someone just disappears. I hope nothing dreadful happened.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=2871380&ebot_calc_page#message_2871380

Not having found the character I'm looking for in the new V4 I'm still on the look out for a anatomically complete female base character. Anytime someone creates one that looks good I get interested. Here is the latest link I could find on Kaimira. In this one it looks like there's another build of the Kaimira character and **Seraphira** seems to have changed his/her name to **Raventina. ** Posted Fri, Dec 29, 2006 thru Wed, Jan 17, 2007

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=2871380&ebot_calc_page#message_2871380
**
**

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

Oh good. The worst popped into my head there for a second. Glad she is okay and still around.

Btw: I love your signature.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Quote - Didn't you know? Techically I have never come up with anything according to some. They have just been waiting 10 years to putit all together. hehe

What is there, some imaginary statue of limitation?

No, I didn't know.
I bought v4 pro pack and burned the files to a DVD.
I may have actually made 1 render with it.

As far as Apollo, I bought him when you first offered him and use him alot.

So what are we going to see next? M4 with Apollo's ADS?

You can Hold your Head Up High.
There are many of us that have used "Your" works for years.

I.M.H.O., if you, Dan, Beth, Lee and some of the others could Think Tank for awhile, I suspect that you could have a "Female" version of Apollo. What a combination that would make.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Hehehe. Thanky on the sigy compliment. A result of my insane side colliding with my silly side but not as cool as yours.
:biggrin:

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

Quote - I.M.H.O., if you, Dan, Beth, Lee and some of the others could Think Tank for awhile, I suspect that you could have a "Female" version of Apollo. What a combination that would make.

I here ya. I do want to do one at some point. But only for fun in my spare time. I'm just a hobbyist again remember? Sooner or later I have to go back to the real world again.

lol. And after what has happened with Apollo, there is no way in hell I am ever doing one before every last Mil4 variant has been released, from A to V. And that could be a long time.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Quote - I just downloaded my V4 update and gag, she comes with nasty-looking painted hair and undies painted on her!!!!! This is censorship gone mad!!!!

Just want to come in chime in here on this point. It's actually an additional skin texture. The original completely naked one is there, just go to Poses->DAZ Sample Materials or something like that.

¤~Giolon~¤

¤~ RadiantCG ~¤~ My Renderosity Gallery ~¤

Okay. The Daz installer will not let you install V4 to an external runtime. I keep all V4 in an external runtime. So, outsmart the installer. I copied just my Poser 6 .exe into the external runtime, installed V.4.1 no problem. Also, I agree about Daz Studio. They are doing everything to push their own software. They are going to end up out of business, IMHO.

Drifterlee, if you tell it you're installing for DAZ|Studio, it will let you install to any location you want. DAZ confirmed that there's no real difference between the product choices in the installer, except in this case it tries to enforce the install location if you choose "Poser X."

¤~Giolon~¤

¤~ RadiantCG ~¤~ My Renderosity Gallery ~¤

Quote - any mac user gotten her to launch? I have updated to v4.1 and so far i have not been aable to get her to launch. I get the following error.. please locate "V4BODYGrps.pz2" when i cant find that on my hd or in the runtime folder created by the installers I select continue without loking further. and then i get a series of error messages like could not find...V4BodyGrps.pz2, V4BodyChnnls.pz2, V4HipGrps.pz2, V4hipchannls.pz2... this goes on and on in these mysterious pairs until I force quit poser. When I look in the !DAZ/Victoria 4/folders I see all sorts of odd names like 00-ps_pe069_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2, 00-ps_pe069_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2 and 03-ps_pe069_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2, 03-ps_pe069_DAZ_ERC.pz2, 03-ps_pe069_DAZ_Grps.pz2. I'm using poser 6 sr 2 and yes everything that came with the update was installed in the internal runtime. I think Daz has sent out defective files again.

V4.1 doesn't install on my Mac either.
I have been told to rename my "Poser 6" folder in the apps sections to just "Poser."
We'll see if that helps.

I'm happy that Daz listened to what people said, especially about the brows. I can't say I like the "mask" look for brows on any of the figures or the add-ons props for figures with that shape. It gets in the way. I like working with a brow shape when morphing, I can see what I'm doing. But I guess the "mask" thing is the trend these days. :P

I like the idea of D|S users getting their own version of PMD, and it works with Poser too.
The trouble is, the new ExP is confusing, and it's not working on my Mac thus far.

Just for the sake of completeness ... Mask-da had a similar idea around the same time, and implemented posable teeth in his anime character, F202, back in 2004. Admittedly, they were props instead of true body parts (so were the eyes and lashes), but they were rigged with ERC code to move in concert with the mouth morphs.

The Lashes and such were probably props to avoid morph crumpling or to make UV mapping easier. Some programs have issues with Vertex orders when saving seperate geometries for morphs and such.

I was trying to read some of old threads but the links are fubar'd unfortunately. Separate teeth groups are really the way to go. Since morphs don;t deform along a curve it avoids mush mouth. Did that fgure have a posable tongue too?

I think in the end it is about the total some of simultaneous similarity. A couple similarities is one thing, but she has more in common with Apollo than she does V3. Thou would think a company with so much experience and so many employees could do better, earlier.

As I have said, there are so many ways to do figures. Apollo is just one way, but by no means the only way. It is flattering on a very low level. One would just hope for creativity and originality. And done well.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

The last I spoke with her, Jolene (Seraphira) had some health problems, family illnesses, and some special issues as a single parent.

Anton, maybe you should consider doing what E-Frontier did with the G2 figures and supply a licence for every copy released.

Why does it take V4.1 15 minutes to even load?

The load time is because of the magnets. Each magnet in Poser is treated like three extra bodyparts (mag, base, and zone). Without morphs, magnets are 55% of the V4 cr2. Magnets are very memory intensive.

Linear parts are faster than branched parts. Basically the hip, chest and hand are the slowest parts because they have children brancing off them. Arms and legs respond faster because they are a straight chain.. 1,2,3.

And expamly of this is.
Say you have a snake with 100 linear segments.
And then say you also have a spider with 99 legs off one body.

The snake would be fast. The spider would grind poser to a halt. Magnets and all their parts are like those spider legs creating more branches.

All those overlapping zones and their effects with each other and the mesh uses a lot of memory. It it sort of like erc; taing a decent idea but way overdoing it until it is a nightmare.

There is a time and place for magnets. And a time and place for erc, but both are are among the highest users of memory in Poser. They should be used in small doses.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Quote - Separate teeth groups are really the way to go.

I agree. I've rigged Krystal (from Starfox Adventures) in this manner, and now that I don't have to worry about the #&*@ interior mouth parts, it's making the creation of morphs for facial expressions, phonemes, and the like far less difficult.

Quote - Did that fgure have a posable tongue too?

No. She has no tongue at all, posable or otherwise. You can get her here, if you'd like to take a look:

http://mdp.s18.xrea.com/

Download link is at the bottom of the page. As toon characters go, she isn't that bad. EvilInnocence has started producing some clothes for her.

I can't get the page to load for some reason. Thanks, I'll try to check it later. I really just want to see a pic of what the character looks like. Toons are always fun to look at.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

V4 new did not take more than a few seconds to load, from an external runtime. However, I also installed her in my main P6 P7 runtimes because Poser looks there first. I don't like her, I am sticking with the orignal V4 and V3. I am so sick of things not working especially when we pay good money for them. I have had to fix so many "tested" products that I should be hired as a tester, LOL!

hehe. That was funny. Like a personal assistant. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

finally got the update to work. After exploring the forums at daz it was revealed that if your poser folder was name anything other than "poser" (ex: poser 6) the secondary desktop update apps don't work. After changing the folder name it now works. Seems like a lot of hassle to update a figure that is only a few months old. Also seems the v4 characters I've bought over the last few months may not work with the update. So I either have to get updates to all those or still keep v4 in my runtime as well. Poser is becoming a hassle to use, to program is a hd hog, way to slow.It's also getting too expensive to by clothes and characters for all updates. I've been using a trial version of modo and once it gets the ability to bone and animate characters I'm done with poser.

You're very right about the magnets bloating everything, but DAZ seems not so concerned w/ Poser users anymore. It's all about D|S, and can you really blame them? They want you to use their software now. All the complaints of V4(.1) Morph++ containing all of her morphs by default w/o the option the easily INJ/REM the ones that are actually wanted are answered by DAZ staff with "Well, in DAZ|Studio, morphs aren't actually loaded into memory until you dial them." :-| It's like gee that's great but that doesn't help us Poser users now does it?

Now, I'd just like to say one nice thing about V4.1 aside from all the BS w/ runtime install location requirements, the copying of the brow mask from Apollo (which honestly it needed and is more versatilethan 2 little brow segments that V3 had), and stupid post-install scripts to update the figure... V4.1 has some new head morphs that take care of things that were missing in V4 from V3. Whether that's worth th hassle for all of you to update, well I can't decide for you.

¤~Giolon~¤

¤~ RadiantCG ~¤~ My Renderosity Gallery ~¤

Ah with the !Daz files having to be in the main Poser runtime does anyone know how this will affect developers who make versions of a character for P7, P6, P5 etc.

Is it legal to install the !Daz folder in multiple runtimes? - I asked at Daz but haven't got an answer.

Simply for testing purposes you would need V4 to work in all versions so I take it you would need the !Daz folder in each runtime?

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

My home internet connection has been down for several days, and I come back to 70 critiques to do and this good/bad news. /grumble

My Freebies

Quote - All the complaints of V4(.1) Morph++ containing all of her morphs by default w/o the option the easily INJ/REM the ones that are actually wanted are answered by DAZ staff with "Well, in DAZ|Studio, morphs aren't actually loaded into memory until you dial them." :-| It's like gee that's great but that doesn't help us Poser users now does it?

V4 (and V4.1) Morphs++ is the standard V4 and it comes with a set of morphs preloaded, so you only have to INJ/REM addon products beyond this.

This is the same thing they did with Aiko3 and Hiro3 (ie have a set of standard morphs in the cr2) and I think DAZ marketing decided this was more popular than V3 and M3 who came with no set preloaded (except the spandex morphs so you could make them not naked lol) and had to be INJ'd to be used at all.

There was no big hoohaa about Aiko3 and Hiro3 having some usable morphs preloaded, or did I miss that? I do recall some statements praising them though.

If this standard set were that big a load on users, I would suggest requesting for DAZ to make these injectable into a stripped down V4 (ie the V4 Base.) :)

As I use these standard sets all the time I prefer them preloaded, personally. I had actually saved my own version ov V3 cr2 that had these morphs preloaded.

BTW, INJ or not is not a DS vs Poser thing... the same loading process is in both, ie the morphs are loaded to memory when you double click on the V4 icon in your library or when you double click on an INJ pose file in your library. I'm not sure who told you "morphs aren't actually loaded into memory until you dial them" - that's not right. ;)

Hope that helps... if you have any questions or doubts, feel free to ask :)

Quote - Is it legal to install the !Daz folder in multiple runtimes?

I read someone answer this in the DAZ forum... don't take my word for it till I find that reference link but if I recall, the eula allows multiple copies on the same computer for the same user - eg backup copies.

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a sweet disorder in the dress kindles in clothes a wantoness,
do more bewitch me than when art is too precise in every part

Quote - BTW, INJ or not is not a DS vs Poser thing... the same loading process is in both, ie the morphs are loaded to memory when you double click on the V4 icon in your library or when you double click on an INJ pose file in your library. I'm not sure who told you "morphs aren't actually loaded into memory until you dial them" - that's not right. ;)

"morphs aren't actually loaded into memory until you dial them" was part of the marketing when inj was introduced with V3. The point of this statement was that the loaded cr2 wasn;t burdened by holding morphs you didn't use or didn't need for a project. INJ/REM come about when it was relealized how large the fully loaded V3 cr2 would be with every morph. I know this because I was standing there at the time.

When studio was initial designed this same phrase was used publically and internally because the plan was to have DS automatically call the morphs when the dial was at a value other than zero, thus not loading the morphs into memory until the user moved the slider.

Mind you this was many years ago.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I've not bought V4 yet, it's on the wishlist at Daz....are you saying not to bother? It certainly sounds a headache.

What would you recommend if not V4?

Thanks for any help.

PORTAL

Aiko seems to be top girl still. Lots of her stuff is on sale too.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

i finally got my V4 to work but only after i installed V4.1 to my runtime then to the directory of my poser....odd...lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Quote - > Quote - BTW, INJ or not is not a DS vs Poser thing... the same loading process is in both, ie the morphs are loaded to memory when you double click on the V4 icon in your library or when you double click on an INJ pose file in your library. I'm not sure who told you "morphs aren't actually loaded into memory until you dial them" - that's not right. ;)

"morphs aren't actually loaded into memory until you dial them" was part of the marketing when inj was introduced with V3. The point of this statement was that the loaded cr2 wasn;t burdened by holding morphs you didn't use or didn't need for a project. INJ/REM come about when it was relealized how large the fully loaded V3 cr2 would be with every morph. I know this because I was standing there at the time.

When studio was initial designed this same phrase was used publically and internally because the plan was to have DS automatically call the morphs when the dial was at a value other than zero, thus not loading the morphs into memory until the user moved the slider.

Mind you this was many years ago.

Interesting... just watching my cpu and memory usage, it's clear to me both Poser 7 and DS load the morphs when you double click on the library icons, and both poser and ds use some more when you dial the morphs but not as much as during the load. The sizes are about the same for both too, except cpu useage goes down to a lower and less spikey level with DS compared to Poser.

DS has better memory handling from where I'm sitting... so DS marketing may have said memory is not used till the dials are turned, but that's not a technically complete statement - how can the dials even become visible on the screen if they don't load something?? lol They may have optimised memory use for morphs before EF did, I'll buy that ;)

Anyhoo, the only reason I pointed that out is DAZ are still developing cr2s and pz2s in Poser as these are Poser format files and hence the concern of if it works in DS comes after that, so I don't see how they could be unconcerned about Poser users. (They may want to go that way lol -- what business wouldn't love a monopoly ;) -- but they can't at this time or anytime this year at least, afaik. heh :) ) So... IMO Poser users don't yet have to feel all neglected and up in arms for this reason. Should be easy to find another reason... like installers lol. That's the one I was biting on but we were in the minority so didn't get a lynch mob happening in the critical timeframe. hahaha... shrug sigh

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a sweet disorder in the dress kindles in clothes a wantoness,
do more bewitch me than when art is too precise in every part

D|S is marketed very differently from how Poser is marketed, and imo they don't really compete with each other too much. D|S starts free, and if you want feature X or Y or Z that Poser has, you can buy it a la carte, which is attractive to many people. Poser is a monolithic $220 purchase, and while it's a lot more feature-heavy than D|S out of the box, many people won't use a lot of the features (e.g. I never use Hair Room or Face Room). If DAZ3d is smart they'll keep on offering content that works in both apps to take advantage of both markets.

My Freebies

Quote - DAZ are still developing cr2s and pz2s in Poser as these are Poser format files and hence the concern of if it works in DS comes after that, so I don't see how they could be unconcerned about Poser users.

:) Come'on April. Fess up. You have been around toooo long now to still buy into that old line. You know as well as everyone else where this is all heading. Daz uses Poser format because Studio uses Poser format. Studio uses Poser format because that is really all they know.

Granted the development of Studio is now years behind schedule, but you can't say really believe a eventual divide isn't intended.

If after all this time people still don't want to realize that the goal is to convert Poser software buyers into Studio users using Daz made poser-ish content, well fine. I held onto Santa Clause till I was 12 so who am I to judge. :) But at some point you just have to let go of the old pretense and just embrace the reality of the situation.

Daz used Poser formats, not because they like Poser but because it is what they knew at the time and it seemed a quick and easy solution. You don;t actualy think they though Studio would take this many years. All of this was supposed to have happened in 2003-2004. The goal was ready made content for free software that would cement the store and figures against any competition including Poser itself.

If all peole know is Studio, then all they will use are Daz figures and Daz content. Fine. I have no problem with that. But the pretense of intended unity at this point is rediculous.

Simple example were the V4 scale dials. Daz knows damn well that if you go into the cr2 and set the dials to hidden, Poser users can't access them. And that is what they did with V4. They went into the cr2 and manually set the scale dials to invisible. Poof, no access to V4 scaling in Poser. lol

Then they sell scaling and Studio can unhide the dials. Now that is not "concern" in my book. It;s 100% gimmick. You don;t work with Poser for 10 years and accidently hand edit a cr2 to hide all the scale dials. lol

Do you really really think a compnay with so many employees, Rob Wisnant, Michael Lane, Chris Palomino, etc would overlook something as fundamental as "Hey the scale dials are missing in Poser and there is no way in Poser to make them visible!".

I like Studio on a Basic level. I am promoting it like the dickens atm. But truth me told, it is Gimmick-ware. It is Daz Software for Daz figures. If that is what you use then fine. I think Poser constomers and their credit cards are important to them. But that is not the same as bening a concern, a priority, etc.

In the end none of it matters. People will make their choices based on personal experience. But I don't think anyone would disagree that frustration is not a form of entertainment and most people prefer entertainment and recreation over frustration and dissapointment.

Just my opinion of course.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

But I hear what you are saying. :) lol

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

i use both, but if it comes down to a war i'll probably pick poser. just about every time a plan a pic with a sketchbook and ideas, unfettered by software limitations, i end up with something that needs poser, and doesn't actually need anything from d|s.

but that's not why i decided to post on this upcoming religious war. what i think is interesting is how the ala carte method could end up a burden. i love pwSurface, but i know of 0 products (textures or otherwise) that are made to use it. because no merchant will count on people buying a plugin. pwCatch and pwGhost seem awfully cool, but i almost never see images using the latter and rarely hear about the former being used. and no one has really made any presets for them.

on the other hand, i have multiple complex shaders for poser.

from what i've seen, ala carte means each product, be it plug-in, figure or texture, has to be made to work only with the free base. and that base is awfully limited. now if the poser community was more into content creation than consumer content, that would be great. as it is.... if poser 8 implements real sss (please), i would bet that at least a few merchants would take advantage of that and there would be lots of free shaders (not that there aren't free d|s plug-in based shaders, i've just found only a couple or so).

again, i'm not dogging d|s. i use it pretty frequently- usually when poser has frustrated me to the point of wanting to give up on it and just about anything digital ;D. i just find the plug-in model doesn't fit the present user behavior, and it makes me personally want to be really cautious about buying plug-ins, like i've become about daz animals and non-human figures. there's quite a few products i thought i'd see so much support for i'd feel stupid not to get them, and now there's been so little i feel somewhat foolish the other way.

what do you guys think? do you think it might be a problem? if you do, can you think of solutions? and i don't mean their internal support. the mill dragon is nice, but he's got about 3 or 4 textures and no custom morphs that i know of, even though they've done the whole dragon theme more than once. i mean generalized, broad community support, as with their humans.

I personally am very unhappy with Daz's customer support. Here at RR, I get personal emails adressing my problems and a fix. I purchased Lorelei for V4 at Daz and the texture has visible seams on the inside of her legs, under arms and hands. I emailed them, and I get a generic "Please reset your downloads and clear your cache". Reseting my downloads without the merchant fixing the problem is useless. This render was in firefly. I can fix it in Photoshop, but at $14. on sale this is ridiculous.

Quote -
V4 (and V4.1) Morphs++ is the standard V4 and it comes with a set of morphs preloaded, so you only have to INJ/REM addon products beyond this.

This is the same thing they did with Aiko3 and Hiro3 (ie have a set of standard morphs in the cr2) and I think DAZ marketing decided this was more popular than V3 and M3 who came with no set preloaded (except the spandex morphs so you could make them not naked lol) and had to be INJ'd to be used at all.

There was no big hoohaa about Aiko3 and Hiro3 having some usable morphs preloaded, or did I miss that? I do recall some statements praising them though.
[...]

I'm not sure who told you "morphs aren't actually loaded into memory until you dial them" - that's not right. ;)

I don't use Aiko and Hiro in any seriousness, so I don't care that they bloat themselves with all morphs pre-included. To adapt a popular adage to the situation, "pointing to one instance of bad behavior does not excuse another."

As for D|S only loading spun morphs, that info came from a couple seemingly knowledgeable DAZ forumgoers DavidGB and RAMWolf, so I will retract my statement that it came from DAZ staff, because I double checked, and it did not. I don't use DAZ|Studio enough to actually know if it's true or not (b/c I prefer Poser).

¤~Giolon~¤

¤~ RadiantCG ~¤~ My Renderosity Gallery ~¤

Quote - I personally am very unhappy with Daz's customer support. Here at RR, I get personal emails adressing my problems and a fix. I purchased Lorelei for V4 at Daz and the texture has visible seams on the inside of her legs, under arms and hands. I emailed them, and I get a generic "Please reset your downloads and clear your cache". Reseting my downloads without the merchant fixing the problem is useless. This render was in firefly. I can fix it in Photoshop, but at $14. on sale this is ridiculous.

Drifterlee, I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall that DAZ has a 30 day money back guarantee. I've normally had a helpful response from their customer service, but it sounds like the operator who handled your e-mail was confused. I'd suggest trying again, perhaps even calling during business hours if they still have that option, and if they have nothing to say about the quality of the textures, try asking for a refund.

¤~Giolon~¤

¤~ RadiantCG ~¤~ My Renderosity Gallery ~¤

I really don't want a refund. I would think the merchant could fix the seam problem and offer a re-download, like renderosity does.

Where is the eyebrow material. I can't find it on my version of 4.1.

Nevermind I found it...

Is there any way to "Hand Edit" the Cr2 to make the v4 Saling Dials visible to Poser???????

It's really no surprise to me about Daz, seems like most everything they do these days is all about Daz Studio.
Hmmmmmmmmmm, sounds vaguely familiar to another software outfit in Redmond, WA.

Quote - > Quote - DAZ are still developing cr2s and pz2s in Poser as these are Poser format files and hence the concern of if it works in DS comes after that, so I don't see how they could be unconcerned about Poser users.

:) Come'on April. Fess up. You have been around toooo long now to still buy into that old line. You know as well as everyone else where this is all heading. Daz uses Poser format because Studio uses Poser format. Studio uses Poser format because that is really all they know.

Granted the development of Studio is now years behind schedule, but you can't say really believe a eventual divide isn't intended.

If after all this time people still don't want to realize that the goal is to convert Poser software buyers into Studio users using Daz made poser-ish content, well fine. I held onto Santa Clause till I was 12 so who am I to judge. :) But at some point you just have to let go of the old pretense and just embrace the reality of the situation.

Daz used Poser formats, not because they like Poser but because it is what they knew at the time and it seemed a quick and easy solution. You don;t actualy think they though Studio would take this many years. All of this was supposed to have happened in 2003-2004. The goal was ready made content for free software that would cement the store and figures against any competition including Poser itself.

If all peole know is Studio, then all they will use are Daz figures and Daz content. Fine. I have no problem with that. But the pretense of intended unity at this point is rediculous.

Simple example were the V4 scale dials. Daz knows damn well that if you go into the cr2 and set the dials to hidden, Poser users can't access them. And that is what they did with V4. They went into the cr2 and manually set the scale dials to invisible. Poof, no access to V4 scaling in Poser. lol

Then they sell scaling and Studio can unhide the dials. Now that is not "concern" in my book. It;s 100% gimmick. You don;t work with Poser for 10 years and accidently hand edit a cr2 to hide all the scale dials. lol

Do you really really think a compnay with so many employees, Rob Wisnant, Michael Lane, Chris Palomino, etc would overlook something as fundamental as "Hey the scale dials are missing in Poser and there is no way in Poser to make them visible!".

I like Studio on a Basic level. I am promoting it like the dickens atm. But truth me told, it is Gimmick-ware. It is Daz Software for Daz figures. If that is what you use then fine. I think Poser constomers and their credit cards are important to them. But that is not the same as bening a concern, a priority, etc.

In the end none of it matters. People will make their choices based on personal experience. But I don't think anyone would disagree that frustration is not a form of entertainment and most people prefer entertainment and recreation over frustration and dissapointment.

Just my opinion of course.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=2861311&ebot_calc_page#message_2861311

No need to hand edit the Cr2,pjz made a nice "unhide scale dial" pose file.

No problems here with Lorelei as you can see in this thread. drifterlee, I don't know why you are having problems. This is simply Poser 6 with a Firefly render not even at the final setting.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2695424&page=1#message_2966605

Kathie Berry
Admin/PlanIT3D

Some painters transform the sun into a yellow spot.
Others transform a yellow spot into the sun.
--Pablo Picasso-
-

Quote - finally got the update to work. After exploring the forums at daz it was revealed that if your poser folder was name anything other than "poser" (ex: poser 6) the secondary desktop update apps don't work. After changing the folder name it now works. Seems like a lot of hassle to update a figure that is only a few months old. Also seems the v4 characters I've bought over the last few months may not work with the update. So I either have to get updates to all those or still keep v4 in my runtime as well. Poser is becoming a hassle to use, to program is a hd hog, way to slow.It's also getting too expensive to by clothes and characters for all updates. I've been using a trial version of modo and once it gets the ability to bone and animate characters I'm done with poser.

I changed the name to Poser from Poser 6 and Poser7 but it still won't install

I'm going to look at the G2 females I think.
Not going to invest in something that puts scripts on my desktop.

You hear me, Daz?

What is to stop someone from writing something that uses the same icon, replaces the script you put on my desktop and tell me is safe, and when I run it... well....

Silke

Quote - No need to hand edit the Cr2,pjz made a nice "unhide scale dial" pose file.

Just to clarify, it wasn't me that wrote that pose file, it was was DavidGB over at the DAZ forums, I just passed it along here.

My Freebies

Quote - What is to stop someone from writing something that uses the same icon, replaces the script you put on my desktop and tell me is safe, and when I run it... well....

You know, you don't have to use that utility at all if you don't care to, there are still the standard PBMCC* channels built into the CR2 that any INJ/REM pose can use. What the updater utility does is make extra channels in the sub-files loaded by the V4.1 CR2 - although DAZ was a bit dumb about how they chose to implement the updater, it's a very hands-off all or nothing approach. It would be a lot better if they had some selective approach to which INJections are treated this way rather than a global search-all method. Also would have been wise to make the updater use an ini file to select what directory the preferred runtime lives in. I sent them a suggestion for such a change, maybe they'll expand it and make it more functional. Since they sell Carrara one would think it's in their best interests to make V4.1 as compatible as possible with their own apps.

As far as I can tell, there is no disadvantage in simply not using the updater at all, just the possibility that you might have some INJ pose try to use the same PBMCC* channel that a different INJ pose has already loaded on when trying to mix INJ poses. If you don't use it, it doesn't appear to have any negative effect at all compared to what you had with V4.0. If you've ALREADY run the updater, you might just uninstall/reinstall V4.1 to get a clean setup without all the extra channels loaded (as I plan to maintain mine).

My Freebies

It occurs to me that all the problems of V4.1 not being comfortable in an external runtime are almost certainly because of the way the CR2 is calling all the sub-files via readScript commands embedded in the text of the CR2. I am 99% certain that if you load V4.1 and save a new copy in the Characters library, the resulting CR2 would be all one file and completely portable to different runtimes, and would never be touched by the updater.
edit: I expect this would fix the Carrara importing problem too.

My Freebies

“I am 99% certain that if you load V4.1 and save a new copy in the Characters library, the resulting CR2 would be all one file and completely portable to different runtimes, and would never be touched by the updater.”

Well I already did that and it worked perfectly.

All one needs to do is open V4.1, save here back and just drop her and her Geometry file into any other runtime (no !Daz update files) and she works just like V4.

Note: You do initialize her with the update first (that sounds a bit kinky).

Looking at the saved CR2 I didn’t find any “readScript” commands so I don’t think the !Daz updater would bother with her.

Also for people still using PoserProPack, the saved CR2 loads right away without the zillion error messages.

Oh and sorry about not giving the correct credit to the author of that unhide scale dial (sorry DavidGB ).

SWAMP

Yeah I just confirmed this on my own install, the newly saved CR2 is all one file with no readScript commands embedded. People who are hesitant about the updater utility or people who want to use V4.1 in an external runtime might want to give this a try. Note that one would have to also copy these files into the external runtime:
RuntimeGeometriesNull.obj
RuntimeGeometriesDAZPeopleblMilWom.obj

... and if external binary morph targets is turned on, any associated .PMD file.

edit: I see it confirmed in the DAZ forum that this does indeed fix the Carrara import problem:
Will Victoria 4.1 work in Carrara? Not via direct import of the CR2. Victoria 4.1 uses a new morph loading system which Carrara is currently not able to utilize. If you have Poser you can load Victoria, then save back to the library and the resultant figure will load and work in Carrara. DAZ have said that Carrara 6 will support Victoria 4.1.

My Freebies

I have a question concerning this ExP tech.

Let's say that you install V4.1 and run the updater. Then you load it up in Poser, do your thing, and save a Poser scene. Later on, you purchase other morph packs and install them and update V4.1.

When you load the scene (which no longer references the V4.1 CR2!!!!) and want to make some changes to the figure - say add some of the morphs you recently purchased - how do you do it? :D

I see a V4.2 in our near future........

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

-- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Quote - Not going to invest in something that puts scripts on my desktop.

Err, this script is not on the desktop - you were told that in grevious error. It is merely an icon pointing to a given executable. Right-click the icon, hit "Properties", and see for yourself. Delete the icon at leisure, or move it somewhere else if you like. Drag-and-Drop should do it. 'sides, as far as someone replacing it with something else, that goes for any executable/icon combo you download, no? If a cracker can get to your desktop and know that you have a specific DAZ icon there, what's to stop 'em from replacing/trojaning an executable that you actually use more often, such as poser.exe, notepad.exe, iexplore.exe (which every windows user has and likely uses... making it a much juicier target), etc... makes the original argument kinda silly, no? /P

Quote - I have a question concerning this ExP tech.

Let's say that you install V4.1 and run the updater. Then you load it up in Poser, do your thing, and save a Poser scene. Later on, you purchase other morph packs and install them and update V4.1.

Would you actually have to do such an update? I mean, the morphs are referenced in the .cr2 and not the called .obj file, no? Or does DAZ actually put these changes in the .obj file now? The only potential problem I see is in the .pz3, which as you mentioned would reference the older .cr2... but then again, that .cr2 (if your scene calls it specifically and not a custom-saved .cr2 that you'd built) would have the same name/location, and would still load, followed by any additional morphs that you built for it and added to it via the empty IMJ/REM morph channels, would it not? Has anyone actually tried this, or is it hypothetical still? /P

Quote - I have a question concerning this ExP tech.

Let's say that you install V4.1 and run the updater. Then you load it up in Poser, do your thing, and save a Poser scene. Later on, you purchase other morph packs and install them and update V4.1.

When you load the scene (which no longer references the V4.1 CR2!!!!) and want to make some changes to the figure - say add some of the morphs you recently purchased - how do you do it? :D

I see a V4.2 in our near future........

From what I'm seeing, it all aggregates together - all the updater does is add guaranteed-unique morph control channels when you run it, for any INJ morph that it locates for V4. Which is imo a bit stupid, but according to that DAZ forum faq (supposedly backed up by DAZ tech support) the morph data isn't loaded, it only assigns a channel. Later you install 5000 INJ morphs, and run the updater. All the scenes reference the same CR2 file, but the CR2 file loads different sub-files - so all versions of scene files SHOULD still work seamlessly. It's pretty messy, there are maybe 8 sub-files for every bodypart. I cannot confirm that it does not load the morph data either, I see morph data in the files - don't know whether it's loaded when you load V4 into Poser.

I have very few INJ poses installed, I make my own morphs and save in separate CR2s. Such being the case I have little interest in this ExP junk and have no plans to use it.

My Freebies

Quote - Would you actually have to do such an update? I mean, the morphs are referenced in the .cr2 and not the called .obj file, no? Or does DAZ actually put these changes in the .obj file now? The only potential problem I see is in the .pz3, which as you mentioned would reference the older .cr2... but then again, that .cr2 (if your scene calls it specifically and not a custom-saved .cr2 that you'd built) would have the same name/location, and would still load, followed by any additional morphs that you built for it and added to it via the empty IMJ/REM morph channels, would it not? Has anyone actually tried this, or is it hypothetical still? /P

But the CR2 is NOT referenced from the PZ3 (that's why the original exclamations). The CR2 is EMBEDDED in the PZ3 - sort of frozen in time as it were. Don't know if the script utility can be run on a PZ3, but it would need to be as the 'added' morph dials for the new morphs you added to the updated CR2 are not known to the PZ3.

The thing about this ExP technology is that the 'empty INJ/REM morph channels' don't exist until you run that script utility on the CR2. That's the entire point of it - by adding them uniquely, collisions (reuse) on INJ morph dials are removed.

ETA: Seems there is a very bad misconception here that Poser 'references' other Poser files from scene files. You can do this using readScript (see JessiFBM.cr2). Poser references OBJ and texture images (except where the geometry is embedded - PP2 using geomCustom). But it always embeds figures (cr2), props (pp2), lights (lt2), and cameras (cm2) into the scene file. Otherwise, the scene file sizes would be immaculately small. They are the same size as if you combined all of the content files into one file (plus some additional scene data) - that is a Poser scene file... ;P

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

-- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Quote - But the CR2 is NOT referenced from the PZ3 (that's why the original exclamations). The CR2 is EMBEDDED in the PZ3 - sort of frozen in time as it were.

Thank you for correcting me, oops. Such being the case, I don't see how ExP junk would affect previously-saved PZ3 files in any way whatsoever. Same answer, all your [correction] SCENE files ought to load exactly the same, I would expect - unless the INJ pose you want to load is an ExP file, then I expect it would try to move itself into a nonexistent control channel, and wouldn't work. I guess you could save the pose, load an updated V4.1 CR2, and apply the saved pose and load your INJ. Much pain in the ass if you ask me, more reason I won't want to use it.

My Freebies

Exactly my point, pjz99. :)

You reload the saved PZ3 with that 'old' V4.1 CR2 embedded within it, but since the PZ3 was edited last you purchased some new V4.1 morphs and run the utility on the unembedded V4.1 CR2. But this does not change the V4.1 CR2 embedded (and loaded with) the PZ3. So, you want to add some of those new morphs onto this V4.1 figure from the PZ3 - but you can't (as you say, they probably won't work!) because the morph dial channels added by the utility were never added to the V4.1 version in the PZ3 - only the CR2 in the library.

You must either replace the current V4.1 with the new CR2 from the library - hoping that everything you set up remains intact (poses, animation, morphs, conforming, hair, dynamic cloth, materials, etc.) or start afresh. I told you (general 'you') .... ;P
Would be interesting to have this confirmed.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

-- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

I think it's less hassle to worry about two INJ poses trying to load morphs on the same channel names, than to deal with this kind of thing. Won't affect me much as I rarely use INJ poses any more, but I see your point that it could affect people who are not basically throwing away old scene files as they go (which is what I tend to do).

My Freebies

Yeah, I agree as well. But obviously it has ocurred enough to prompt DAZ to create this gem. :)

Now, we all know that INJ/REM doesn't actually inject dials (channels) - all it does is inject the morph deltas into the dial and unhide the dial (and remove the morph deltas and hide the dial on removal). So, the concern here isn't INJ/REM as much as - is there a way to add/remove channels from a live figure (loaded in Poser)?

I take it that the people over at DAZ tried every which way to do this without success - or they wouldn't have settled on this kludgy solution.

Pose files will not create body parts or channels - they will only apply the contents of these sections (as additions or changes) to existing body parts or channels. This is why INJ/REM works - the dials already/always exist. And this inability does avoid situations where channels that don't exist on a body part don't get created ad-hoc (say, applying a pose for a different figure) - which could be potentially deliterious. Also, if a pose file were to insert channels, it would also be necessary to specify where to insert them. For instance, the order of the translate, rotate, scale, offsetA, and offsetB channels is critical in many cases.

Just to finish the thought process here - Poser files that 'create' stuff (light, camera, hair, prop, and figure files*) wouldn't work since they, well, create stuff. Existing content remains unaffected so this route is a dead end. That only leaves the Pose type files (Poser files that 'modify' stuff) - and they can't seem to do it in the way aforementioned. You can modify values and attributes (even some parts of Joint Paramters) of dials but not the dials themselves.

As I mentioned, the solution here can only really be offered by e-frontier by modifiying Poser itself. Python scripting might be a possible solution - but obviousy this doesn't work to the advantage of DAZ (read: D|S).

I'll let everyone munch on that for awhile. :)

Note: Yes, I realize that light and camera files are special circumstances where lights can be created or modified and camera files always modify existing cameras but new cameras can be created with custom camera files (etc. and so forth). The fact remains that you can't apply real light and camera files to figures and expect anything interesting to happen...

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

-- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

i don't see eFrontier as obligated to come up with a solution that works for d|s. they did modify poser- pmd morphs can inject morphs into a figure without pre-existing channels. there are, iirc, several threads about how to do this with v3. though i've personally had some issues with them. posermatic already released his update to nbs that does this with python. so i know of 2 ways already in practice. that d|s can't is definitely not a poser issue.

pjz99 - whoa. not only do i never do that, there are several i've re-rendered with new lighting or new materials. i do varying amounts of postwork, and i have several (read 10+ easy) images that have only gone through the rendering phase. meaning i might need to re-render them if i get new treatment ideas. and some scenes i've given up on, planning to get back to them when i have better skills or inspiration. and then there are the images i wish i had the original of.

i can understand why you work differently, though. your stuff is kind of narrative, and the characters develop. a render is just one scene, and not even one that's part of a larger work yet, so i can see getting rid of them once they're completed.

anyway, i just have to say you guys have made installing v 4.1 sound so complex, i haven't bothered to download her yet. and i've felt her morphs were sorely lacking. personally, the empty channels are a big deal, because i like 3rd party morphs a great deal. v4 isn't as useful to me as v3 and a3 until capsces adds her morphs and posermatic addresses some of the missing gravity issues and a more natural shape to her breasts. oh, and she gets some ethnic morphs. i mean, she's a nice figure and all, but i only ever use capsces versions of figures and pretty much always use her morphs. and i miss them _ a lot_ when i use a figure that doesn't have them. the eye and nose shaping alone just can't be beat. but i certainly wouldn't want to restrict myself to only capsces morph sets.

I just came over from the DAZ page, having discovered the Victoria 4.1 situation.

My first impression when I could not find any indication or link to an upgrade patch for V4.0 was a feeling of being cheated. I came over here to see what I could find out before becoming too angry about the situation.

Well - after going through three pages on V 4.1, I'm inclined to think my intuitive gut reaction is correct. I've (all of us enticed into purchasing V 4.0) have been cheated by DAZ. Without being shown the internal corprate documentation from DAZ, to believe that at the time of V 4.0's release knowledge that within six months 4.1 would be released is simply incomprehenable.

I've been playing with Poser for six or seven years now as a hobbiest. I have no commercial goals. It's something for me to do on a rainy Saturday. I remember a few years back when there was a free, heavily modified posette floating around and the debate was whether she was better than the Victoria version available at the time. Consequently, I did not start working with Victoria until version 3 a couple, four years ago. I found her the best at the time.

Since purchasing V 4.0, I've come to the conclusion that I'll learn to work with her - not happily, but I'll work with her. However, unless I see something from DAZ regarding all of us who purchased V 4.0 (the pre-release of V4.1) within weeks of her release, and now find ourselves looking at the release of 4.1 (that I have to purchase!?), I am most unwilling to spend my money at DAZ.

Further, I agree with those of you who have expressed the idea that DAZ is looking to force the use of Studio. Somewhere in the time of working with V3 I had the impression that DAZ was heading in that direction.

What money I've spent there, I've spent there. I won't be spending any more.

cobaltdream, I didn't say this should work with D|S - only that DAZ may have worked their solution with this in mind (among other things - continue reading). :)

Yes, PMD pose files can create FBM/PBM dials on the fly - but it is a limited solution:

"You can use V4.1 in Poser 6 and 7. Screw you Poser 1 - 5 users. Nyah, nyah". That would be DAZ's statement if using PMD on one of the most popular Poser figure lines in history? There is no PMD support before Poser 6.
PMDs are, as you note, inherently unstable. They have a tendency to have problems (esp. with V4 as a matter of fact), cause problems, and have been changed slightly between P6 and P7.

Now, Python I agree with - which is why I mentioned it as a possible solution. Why DAZ didn't use Python might have similar reasons:

Python scripting isn't available before Poser 4 ProPack.
D|S can't utilize Poser Python scripting - though if D|S has a scripting interface I don't see why they couldn't have two versions (like they sort of already do).

Again, I think their horrid solution is about ubiquity. This covers the most scenarios (minus Carrara it seems).

Now, e-Frontier has no obligation to do anything. But since they use Inj/Rem themselves, they might find themselves in a similar situation in the future. Obviously, the PMD support is supposed to accomplish this to a limited extent - but how does that work when PMDs are not being used?

It would be easier if they facilitated a way to add channels to a body part either at time of load or through some Pose file mechanism (without the entanglement with PMD). My thought involved using a folder like the Inj/Rem folders being employed but with a 'readScript' statement that could point to the folder and not individual files. Then you could load third-party dial (and morphs) files into the folder and have the CR2 'readScript' the folder to load all of them - instant extensibility - and retaining that 'readScript' type facility in the PZ3 (etc.) would mean that later additions are automatically handled - and you can even remove them from the folder to avoid that (or by some other means).

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

-- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

All I see is hassle.

I don't like having to remember - a year down the line - whether I've injected morph dial x into this scene or not before I saved it.

Silke

The new face morphs are extremely flexible. If you do like and use V4, you'd be missing out big time. I don't see the installation of V4.1 as particularly complicated, just ignore the updater utility and load/save a copy of V4.1 into your Figures library. Seriously the new face morphs add a large amount of flexibility to the figure.

If you do not like or use V4, then of course you lose nothing by not upgrading.

I strongly doubt the merchant community will be too interested in adapting to this new ExP technology, I expect the only packages that will follow this are things sold at DAZ. This does not appear to have any effect at all on morphs done with the old style of PBMCC* channel convention.

My Freebies

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: V4 updated to 4.1