Hey that looks top notch there Fran!

Need crusty loaves!

Lol.

Hey, it comes in colour too!

That was before I'd coloured all the loaves, and before I'd finished the little stand thingie.

I'm not happy with either the wood or the cloth on the canopy/awning - I thought the cloth was tiled but it isn't as you can tell.  The other two cloths look okay though.

Neat project here...  I know everyone's doing buildings for the most part, but I was thinking of making a boat or two for the canal. Would a variation of the "steam launch" be appropriate? (Maybe even a particular boat if anyone has good plans and/or references.)

@fran: love your market stalls, they look lovely - there are a few things that are not right - they are not in one piece because they have to be movable and the tarpaulins have to be much wider so that the merchant can stand under it - they are simple greyish tarpaulins - i will send you a sketch with details and dimensions as soon as possible.

@pauljs75: you're very welcome. it depends what you feel up to. i have very detailed drawings of a 'skutsje' - this is a sailing freight ship (as shown above) but it is a very complicated model to make, tell me what you think.

Quote - Sorry guys, i thought the cold was over, but it came back and i was not around, still not feeling well, but i can manage.

@fran: love your market stalls, they look lovely - there are a few things that are not right - they are not in one piece because they have to be movable and the tarpaulins have to be much wider so that the merchant can stand under it - they are simple greyish tarpaulins - i will send you a sketch with details and dimensions as soon as possible.

Oh sorry, I was going by the image you sent me...

Hi paul, welcome to the nuthouse!

I'm thinking about having a go at the street organ... started playing with it a bit, dunno how far I'll get.

do you need more images? - the organ is separate from the cart it is on - my images only show modern carts with rubber tires if i remember right. at that time it must have been wooden wheels.

do you need more images? - the organ is separate from the cart it is on - my images only show modern carts with rubber tires if i remember right. at that time it must have been wooden wheels.

If there's a front facing one, I mean flat, full on, not at an angle, that would be great.

Is there stuff going on at the back or is that just a flat cover?

Thanks, they'll be a help when I get round to the back.

This is not a simple job so it's going to take me a while, especially as I still have 2 deadlines approaching, one at the end of this week. (one deadline past on Friday - which I'm glad to say I was actually a little early for - phew!)

It's not simple because of the curves, which take a while to do.

Thanks, I'll look into those.

This is as far as I've got, sorry but my back has decided to 'go out' on me so cant sit at pc for long....or in front of the  tv....or lie in bed...or stand...sigh if I was a race horse I'd have been sent to the glue factory ages ago!

Oh well, keeps me out of mischief I suppose.

@ Koosie, that problem wih the lower edges of the windows not joining seemed to be fixed by deleting the guide lines for some reason....

BTW. Do we need a ferris wheel? I made one for the latest wings3d challenge if it is of use.

as far as i can see from the image, this looks good jen! there sometimes is a problem when the guide lines are not right, they are in that case not on the facade for instance, but a little bit away, which is very hard to see, the only way to avoid this is checking the coloured lines when drawing them.
a ferris wheel is not something you would find around that time, jen, sorry.
backpain is a nasty thing, i know, you can only see what happens. hope it will be better soon.

by the way, ebots are acting funny again, so i will check in from time to time for not getting behind!

Quote - Hey Fran is that 'playing' as in musically or graphically??

This is as far as I've got, sorry but my back has decided to 'go out' on me so cant sit at pc for long....or in front of the  tv....or lie in bed...or stand...sigh if I was a race horse I'd have been sent to the glue factory ages ago!

Oh well, keeps me out of mischief I suppose.

Graphically, if I tried the other sort of playing it would just be an audio mess.

Know what the back thing is like, I've just got back from the assessment centre, where I might get a decent chair here at uni - the one supplied is... dreadful, hard as a rock, no arm rests and too low a back to support your back, never mind the neck, and as for height relative to the desk - ha!  

I've often had the "can't walk, sit, lie or stand" one - it's hellish, so these days I try my darndest not to let it get to that stage...

So take it easy as much as you can.

Oh just seen the pic, that's a very nice pic, I'll add it to my collection of organ pics, thanks.

a ferris wheel is not something you would find around that time, jen, sorry.

Not a problem koosie, just thought I would offer it as it looks ok, going to post it in the W3d challenge now.

Thanks all for the kind words on the back, it is slightly better today thankfully, so hoping it will settle soon and let me get back to work and play.

Fran I will see if there are closer ones of the organ for you shortly.

All help will be gratefully received. :biggrin:

Does anyone have a decent image of black bread? Looking directly down on it?

Um... well, not really.  More for a round loaf - i.e. the crust.

I had found one on the web but it's - the bread is - wrapped in cellophane so there are odd reflections - well odd for bread.

I will see if I can use that for a slice though - I was beginning to think of a slice or two, so it won't go to waste.

But if you have or know of a decent image of bread crusts - I mean the whole loaf, then that would be great.

I've found a few, but until after Xmas I can't photograph any, because I don't have my breadmaker till then, and my joints are too feeble to do much kneeding these days.

Wow, you guys have done soo much stuff. I'm still struggling with my wizard robe project :crying:
I didn't wanna come in here and keep promissing stuff. :(

Quote - Wow, you guys have done soo much stuff. I'm still struggling with my wizard robe project :crying:
I didn't wanna come in here and keep promissing stuff. :(

Stop in whenever you want to; after all, it's your thread in the first place.

Hey connie, no worries we wont hold you to ransom! This is just moseying along. I feel similar with just doing the little stable but I guess it is the collaborative effort and we are all doing it for FUN!  I tried to go to the link for your wizard robe but couldnt get through, could you send me a pic to have a squiz?

this stuff looks great, connie!

I agree totally that is some great work! Well Done!

Wooohooo! That is nice, Connie, 9 textures eh?  Is there one in purple with gold stars?  lol!

70 morphs!!!!  Phew!

Is this going in a Market Place somewhere?

The best thing about this project is the fact that it's fun, not forced.

Aww, thak you guys!  
Actually there is a dark blue and purplish one with gold stars :lol:  You have to have the classic wizard look :lol:
If I'm lucky (and don't get distracted with too many family and christmas things), I'll be ready to have this beta tested after this coming weekend. I'll announce it in the Content Paradise Forum.

And wooo hoo, we get 11 days off starting this saturday. I'll have more time to catch up with projects.

I haven't given up on contributing here. I'll stop talking about it and just surprize you guys - I hope :)   Thanks for not getting totally mad at me for not being around.

What do people do who beta test such things?

I found the purple one with stars, it's a bit more than your standard or classic wizard look though, a very nice version.

I at least got that far before Content Paradise broke...

Hey Fran :)
For beta Testing, people install the package, use it on a character, go through morphs  conformas and some poses, and then write a letter of things that didn't work, things that may be improved or were more tedious then your average product etc... Report if there are any missing files or any improvements that can be made to the product before it's released for sale.
There's usually between one and 5 beta testers on a product like this (I think). People with one of the following: poser 5, Poser 6, Poser 7 Daz studio, cararra, Vue.
In exchange, it is customary to give the beta tester a free copy of that particular product (after all the fixes).

Some products get more people offering beta testing then needed, others don't get enough.

Also, lot of people like it to be people whom they know, and can trust to give them some feedback (rather then snagging a copy and disappearing)

Can I/we help with the testing at all?

I had a little suprise this morning.
Bnetta and I have teamed up as I have been making a 'dragon bridle' for her over the last little while and so we have gotten together to look at doing some other stuff as well (dont worry this thread still gets the first bite of my time)

We decided to have a go at a lab coat and stethascope for a charity and now they may have some paid work for us next year!!!

Check out the thread below for the first WIP of the stethascope and how it all came about.
Any hints on the modelling or on how to deal with a commission if it does come up would be greatly appreciated.

Jen

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3135958&ebot_calc_page#message_3135958

"Also, lot of people like it to be people whom they know, and can trust to give them some feedback (rather then snagging a copy and disappearing)"

Well yeah, not a lot of point otherwise.

Have you had beta tested a package that was too big to email, and if so how did you get it to your beta testers?

"Any hints on ... how to deal with a commission if it does come up would be greatly appreciated."

I'd like to know that too.

I would also like to know how to start modeling clothing.

I would also like to know how to start modeling clothing.

Ditto for me, bearing in mind the wonderful Wizard Robes above I would suggest we pick the brains of our resident expert (ie: Connie.) when she has a spare moment to guide us poor waifs in the right direction.  
:wub:

@commissions
I don't know what tax laws, and laws in general, are like in the rest of the world; but in the U.S. you should become incorporated (or at least declare yourself some kind of business). There are a lot benefits to that; especially if the client is a business also.
Do that before you do ANYTHING else. Then any incidental costs can be itemized under the business name; but only costs that occur after incorporation can legally be declared under the business name. Get a taxbook. Log EVERYTHING. Keep EVERY receipt.

Then,
Make a spreadsheet for expenses. Decide on an hourly pay rate and factor that in as an expense (if you are a business, your own pay is a business expense); best guess on how many hours you are going to spend. Put everything you can think of on the spreadsheet: software, electricity used, coffee,...everything you can think of. 'Hidden costs' will eat you alive if you don't plan ahead.
You will have to 'bid' on the job. You have to have a $$$ figure as a baseline to start finalizing the agreement. Figure out what you want to charge; add at least 5% to 10% (there are always unforeseen expenses). That will be your 'bottomline' figure.

Then bid,
Bidding is tricky.

• For 'Closed Bids' (where you are the only bidder):
  ALWAYS bid high at first, you can always negotiate down; but you can never negotiate up. Start at maybe +25% to +50% above what you want to get for a final pay scale. If you start high and haggle down to your 'bottomline' price figure; the client is happy (think they ripped you off/got a deal), you're happy (getting payed what you want), everybody is happy. :)
• For 'Open Bids' (where there are many bidders): You have to submit a $$$ amount and a timeframe right off the bat. There is sometimes the chance to enter a second bid, but not usually; and you don't have any idea what anybody else is bidding on the job either (unless you can finagle info out of the client or the other bidders ;) ). That kind of bidding is a lot harder.
• If someone is just asking you for a price, consider who they are; and whether they are probably contacting other people or not; as to what type of bid it is. NEVER blurt out a really low $$$ figure; because people will jump on that and take you up on the offer. Then you either end up working for nothing, or worse yet, backing out (that gives a very bad reputation). It's better to say "let me think about it and get back to you...". After you do a couple 'jobs' you will have a much better idea of costs and timeframe; then you will be able to give 'quotes' on the fly .

If you get the job:
ALWAYS have a contract. Either get a lawyer to draft a document, or there are places that you can download legal documents of different kinds (again, I don't know about anything outside U.S.). Whatever kind of document you come up with, it is worthless unless it is notarized. It is not an ironclad protection; but it gives you 'a foot to stand on', if the agreement goes sour.
But you can't make a final contract without a $$$ figure, and probably a timeframe/deadline.
If you don't have a legally binding contract; you are just begging to get robbed.

One other thing about commision work.
Don't let clients renegotiate to add extra work to the contract 'for free'.
It will happen; but you should then renegotiate your price also:
Q: You want another morph?
A: It'll take X hours to make that, I'll have to charge you Y dollars for that.

Stick to the contract, in other words.

uh oh, I don't see the post I thought I made last night. Let me see if I remember what it said..

Boofy, that's a pretty elaborate piece you guys are tackling. Two different figures and movement morphs. It sounds like a very cool project!!!

About beta testing, I will know in a week or two how many people I will need. I'll let you guys know as soon as I know. Usually I put the files up on my website and send beta testers a download link.

About modeling clothing, I can share info. How about we do that in a different thread (in this forum). I kind of feel guilty like I'm going to derail the Victorian Village thread....

About commission work, here are some guidelines I try to follow:

-Never charge a 'cut price' on your work. I either do normal price, or I do a freebie (and let the lucky recipient know how much that would cost if I was charging a normal rate). Freebies are a good self promotion tool.  The thing about cut prices is that it slowly trains customers to devalue your work, and come to expect low prices all the time. On the long run, lower prices end up costing you more then a few freebies.

-Always have a clearly outlined agreement about what the client wants and what you will create for them. People talk about a contract, sure, contract is important, BUT what is even more important is that it is written so both parties know what will be done. Many contracts fail to outline important details.

Always reiterate in detail (with the client) your understanding of what it is they want. Let them hear it, and give them a chance to clarify things.

Try to be clear about your workflow, and at which point it is 'too late' for a client to change their mind about something.  For example, changing their mind about texturing details may not be a bif deal before you started texturing. Changing their mind when you're 80% done with textures will cause you a lot of repeat work. This is one of those things that get better with experience, and can throw a curve to a less experienced modeler.

Be clear about when things will be delivered, how often the client will be kept up to date about your progress, when and how the payment is expected, and what happens in case of late payment. Outlining those things is just business. Don't be bashful to put it in the 'fine print.'
Unless you have a lawyer-friend whom will help you for free, it's usually too expensive and impractical to have a lawyer draw up a contract. This makes it important for the artist to have some basic knowledge about how to write a simple contract. I'm pretty sure there are samples that can be found online (I can look for them when I catch a moment)

Also, If you notice that the client is not knowledgeable enough to know what they're asking for, do educate them - a little bit. But if it becomes too time consuming, you may have to make a decision about whether it is worth working for that particular client. You need to make that decision pretty early on. Backing out in the middle of a project will only harm your reputation. 

Well, that's all I can think of at the moment, before I have to run back to work :) 

Wow! Thanks guys! All That info is great.
After Christmas we could start a new thread on modelling clothes, I am sure Fran and I are not the only ones.

I am including the WIP here for u to peek at. As a ball park figure how much an hour would you charge for something like this, it took about 4 hours to this stage? (dont worry I am not holding you to ransom!)

Have a good festive season.

BTW: Santa's elves have blabbed that I may be getting a laptop (with xp) for Christmas (or soon after). Jen

Great info peeps.  Fascinating.

I agree about starting a new thread, good idea there Boofy.

I can see I'm going to have to get used to timing myself.

I find that one of the hardest things to do is to guage how much something should cost...