dphoadley opened this issue on May 10, 2007 · 130 posts
dphoadley posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 4:44 AM
If I were to remap V4 to take V3's textures, would that be marketable product? Sorry, but this is one project that I couldn't justify to my wife as a freebie.
DPH
Casette posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 4:53 AM
Perhaps. I'm waiting for UTC for V4, but by the moment there's no news about it. And I have zillions V3 textures I want to use with her
AND
A remapped version would be better than UTC... because the V3 texture will be the same. UTC creates a new texture which not ever is perfect, the remapping process sometimes make squares or strange lines in zones like nails or eyebrowns
I vote yes :)
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JoePublic posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 5:03 AM
Hmm, if we have a remapped V4, one could make a fully functional V4toV3.
One that unlike the limited DAZ' version could use V3 textures AND all of V3's bodymorphs.
Or one could put V3's head on V4's body for those who want to combine her favorite V3 character's face with V4s new body.
giorgio_2004 posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 6:14 AM
Definitely yes! It would be very useful and I would even pay for it.
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grahamjames posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 7:27 AM
Don't you normally jump on people asking this type of question? This is a quote from your reply to someone who wanted to sell some weapons. You even shouted the word pay. It seems strange that someone interested in only free items now wants to sell.
"Forgive me, but I'm going to be quite blunt. No, I would not PAY money for this, not when I can get all the weapons I need for free. Yours are interesting, but so are all the freebie ones I've previously downloaded. You want to create a freebie? Fine! But will not PAY money for something, even if it's unique, when there are others, no less unique for free.
David P. Hoadley"
Also should this not be in the Product Showcase forum?
Lucifer_The_Dark posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 8:14 AM
The weapons if I remember correctly weren't that exciting & quite frankly we have more than enough weapons going spare in the freebies section, enough probably to outfit an entire army & still have left overs.
This isn't just a quick 5 minute job that being discussed, it's probably going to take weeks or months of hard work to the exclusion of everything else. With all the textures I have that only fit V3 I'd be willing to pay money to use them on V4 if I had her too.
And I don't think this should be in product showcase, it's not an advert, it's just a sounding out of opinions as to whether it would be worth the time & effort.
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archdruid posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 8:34 AM
*"outfit an entire army & still have left overs." * Yes, and each one wold have a different weapon, too. I have to agree... this would be a very useful item to have..... I also agree that this is simple discussion of a project viability. Lou.
"..... and that was when things got interestiing."
kalon posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 8:47 AM
Yes, I would definitely be interested. And I think this the appropriate arena to ask.
dphoadley posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 8:47 AM
Attached Link: Remapping the Duke (aka Dork).02
For those of you who are interested, youcan view my lastest posting in my efforts to remap the Dork to M3's texture configuration. when this project is finished, he will be offered as a Freebie also, to stand alongside my PosetteV3 (P4Nudewoman remapped to V3 texture configuration). To date, PosetteV3 has be downloaded 758 times from freestuff. I believe that I have well and truly put my own money where my mouth is.V4 is a different proposition altogether. Posette wasn't a commercially viable figure, bu V3 and V4 definitely are. Also, they are much more complex. If I'm to take the time and effort to make V4 compatable to all those V3 merchant resources that are still out there, I want to know that it'll be worth my while, not only for my sake, but for that of my wife, children, & grandchildren.
David P. Hoadley
rockets posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 9:06 AM
I think it's a great idea and I would also pay, but I wonder why nobody else has come up with this. Is it legal or will Daz pitch a fit over it? Just curious.
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Marque posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 9:09 AM
Actually he is discussing it not putting an ad here so I see no problem with it. There are a lot of folks out there who sell items and yet still give items away. I don't know if I would buy it, depends on how much you will be asking for it, and how long it will take to do it. Also are you doing the original and the updated version? Looks like more than a few are willing to buy it but I will reserve my vote until I see how good it is and how much. Good luck with it.
Marque
BillyGoat posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 9:16 AM
I'd pay for it ! David would wind up as the 'Merchant of the Month'.
I've bought very little for V4. Just don't like the look of her.
She'd look better in V3Skins.
Just like the MP got rid of a lot of V2 stuff when V3 was released, I see very little V3 stuff now.
But this time I went through the entire store and bought a ton of V3 goodies as soon as V4 came out... Glad I did!
BillyGoat
Indoda posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 9:55 AM
As long as I could afford it. Then yes! it would be very useful.
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momodot posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 10:12 AM
I would pay certainly as long as the figure also took V3 MATposes. How to price? I don't know... how can one judge? Some great products here don't sell on account of high prices, the products have slipped into clearence and then away altogether. I am sure the vendor would have made more with volume and a lower price. Other great stuff is priced so low I am sure the vendor doesn't really care about money at all although maybe I don't appreciate the volume that could be involved. There does seem to be an upper threashold in price that will do a product in at RMP.
Keith posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 10:14 AM
Quote - Hmm, if we have a remapped V4, one could make a fully functional V4toV3.
One that unlike the limited DAZ' version could use V3 textures AND all of V3's bodymorphs.Or one could put V3's head on V4's body for those who want to combine her favorite V3 character's face with V4s new body.
Um, why, precisely, would someone want a V4 that had V3's textures and V3's morphs instead of just using Victoria 3?
jt411 posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 10:14 AM
I don't think there's much of a point in this. All of the more talented texture artists have moved on to V4 anyway.
You'd probably be better off remapping the G2 figures to accept DAZ textures.
Daventaki posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 11:50 AM
The point in this would be you would still have V4 but be able to use all the V3 Textures you already own. Take myself for instance I have lots of V3 textures because I was making good money but now money has gotten tight so I cant just go buy the V4 textures I want so thus if I could by this it would help me greatly!
Conniekat8 posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 11:58 AM
Personally, think I'd be more inclined to spend money on a texture converter from V3 to V4 and the other way around (does one exist yet?) then on a single remapped figure.
But, I may decide somewhere along the way it would be a neat thing to have a remapped V4, or have use for it.
I suppose on a scale of 1-10 I think in my case I'd give it an 8 for useability and a 6 for desireability.
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Keith posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 12:34 PM
Quote - The point in this would be you would still have V4 but be able to use all the V3 Textures you already own. Take myself for instance I have lots of V3 textures because I was making good money but now money has gotten tight so I cant just go buy the V4 textures I want so thus if I could by this it would help me greatly!
No, I'm not questioning the texture issue, I can see that and would probably find it useful myself. It's wanting V4 with V3 textures AND V3 morphs. To be frank, that's just dumb.
"I want something new! That's exactly like the old one!"
KarenJ posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 12:41 PM
I think it would be marketable, yes.
I think you'd need to talk to Daz about how you'd distribute such a remap and stay within their EULA.
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XENOPHONZ posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 1:02 PM
Yes, one of my biggest questions would be DAZ's official opinion regarding such a project. You'd probably better check with them first before doing any work. It wouldn't be an enjoyable experience to spend six months working on something, only to find out at the end of that time that you couldn't sell the product for legal reasons.
As to whether or not I would be interested in purchasing the product myself......I'd have to take a 'wait and see' attitude. It would depend entirely upon the final item itself.
Personally, I like the textures which the best artists are currently producing for V4. So......I don't know that the utility of putting V3 textures onto V4 would be all that useful to me. Then again.....you never know.
But I certainly applaud your efforts. Unlike some others, you are to be praised for -- in a sense -- 'putting your money where your mouth is'.
kalon posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 1:21 PM
jt411> Quote - I don't think there's much of a point in this. All of the more talented texture artists have moved on to V4 anyway.
You'd probably be better off remapping the G2 figures to accept DAZ textures.
Most of us could redeem a sizeable fortune spent on V3 textures with a remap -- that's the point!
Remapping the G2 figures to take mil 3 textures would be a phenomenal idea!
dphoadley posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 1:30 PM
Quote - jt411> Quote - I don't think there's much of a point in this. All of the more talented texture artists have moved on to V4 anyway.
You'd probably be better off remapping the G2 figures to accept DAZ textures.
Most of us could redeem a sizeable fortune spent on V3 textures with a remap -- that's the point!
Remapping the G2 figures to take mil 3 textures would be a phenomenal idea!
I was also thinking that maybe not all merchants were happy with the present V4 texture configuration and would welcome a viable alternative to revert to a configuration that was both tried and true, and that they were quite familiar with.
DPH
dphoadley posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 1:51 PM
Unless eFrontier wants to donate me the G2 figures for remapping, I doubt that I'll be getting around to them anytime soon.
DPH
Lucifer_The_Dark posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 2:01 PM
RTE encoding would probably be the way to go for distribution, using the original V4 obj or cr2 as a reference file.
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RAMWorks posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 2:13 PM
Quote - Hmm, if we have a remapped V4, one could make a fully functional V4toV3.
One that unlike the limited DAZ' version could use V3 textures AND all of V3's bodymorphs.
I like this idea very much!! Yea, I'm not sure how you would get around blending the V3 neck morphs in with the V4 head morphs or if it's even possible but this would be the solution many would love to have, including me. I have SOME V3 characters I like and lots of textures that consist of Aiko and V3 sets so I've had to set aside the V3 set because I just never used her much.
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ThrommArcadia posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 2:20 PM
I know this is something I would be interested in. Heck, I've started manually converting maps in Photoshop! I'm very fussy about skin textures and I've seen very few for V4 thus far that impress me like some of the best V3's.
Also, money is an issue. I can't justify buying a fistful of textures for V4 when I still use her so rarely. A remapped version might be the trick. I ended up getting plenty of V3 textures because they also worked on Aiko, The Girl and S3. Heck, they even work on the guys! I don't know if that is something I'll ever use, but I like the freedom.
I would be very curious as to what DAZ would say, but I think that if you go through their License agreement with a fine toothed comb you might be fine.
I think if you ask them outright, they might say NO. They had the power while making V4 to make her use the excellent textures on the market, but chose not to. I'm sure there is financial reasons behind that. (ie: selling new textures).
On the other hand, they might say yes but want you to sell it through them. What do I know? I need coffee...
dphoadley posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 2:27 PM
Attached Link: Would a remapped V4 to V3 be legally allowed?
If anybody wants to know what DAZ's response is so far, click on the above link and read my post in their Commons Forum. DPH
FrankT posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 2:39 PM
http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=58503
Corrected the link :)
dphoadley posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 2:44 PM
dlk30341 posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 3:24 PM
I'd be interested.
nickedshield posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 3:26 PM
IMO, after reading the responses at Daz, An RTE encoded uvs file would probably work the best. It insures the recipient has the proper files in order to use the new mapping.
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kayjay97 posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 3:33 PM
well I for one would be REAL interested :-)
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judith posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 3:43 PM
Count me in as interested!
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 4:47 PM
Why are people in this thread saying "what's the point of V4 with V3 textures and V3 morphs"
Nobody suggested you'd want a V4 head with V3 body (which is silly of course because the V4 geometry is better, but DP didn't ask about doing that)
Nor did he suggest you'd want a V4 figure with V3 morphs (which is impossible)
The point (and I agree with it) is how cool would it be if the 30 textures you have for V3 (many of which are very good) would work with V4. For example, suppose you already bought HyperReal shader or whatever its called that comes with Morris's fantastic textures and Face_off's skin script, and suddenly that worked fine on the superior V4 geometry.
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FrankT posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 5:11 PM
I'd probably be interested actually. I've got a couple of really nice V3 textures that I could use on V4
drifterlee posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 5:14 PM
Dave, I would like to see the free Apollo Maximus remapped to accept M3 textures. I like him much better than M3 and I have lots of M3 textures.
Gini posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 5:20 PM
I'd love to be able to use my V3 textures on V4 !!! And UTC doesn't work on Macs so a remap is the only way us mac users can go I guess.
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pjz99 posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 5:34 PM
Quote - Dave, I would like to see the free Apollo Maximus remapped to accept M3 textures. I like him much better than M3 and I have lots of M3 textures.
I'd be careful to talk to Anton about that first.
svdl posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 6:13 PM
One thing I noticed is that merchants who are creating V4 characters/skins are FINALLY starting to use the P5/6/7 material room possibilities.
I have lots and lots of V3 textures (most of them free, but a dozen or so commercial) Only one of those makes (limited) use of the material room.
So while the remap will allow me to use these P4-technology level textures on V4, I prefer the P6-technology level original V4 materials.
The remap will be useful for rendering in other apps that cannot import the material room settings.
For me, the remap would be useful only for exporting V4 figures to other apps. Not for rendering in Poser itself.
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ClawShrimp posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 6:44 PM
I for one think it's a fantastic idea.
Reasonable price.
Ease of use.
Quality - Quality - Quality!
If you could get those three down, you'd have a winner on your hands.
Best of luck with this DPH.
If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards...checkmate!
estherau posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 7:00 PM
what exactly does remapping mean? Would it really affect the morphs or is it just a texture thing? Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
cyberscape posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 7:11 PM
Well Dave, I'd say you definitely want to make sure DAZ is cool with this first before starting. If they say yes, then I think you should DEFINITELY make this. It will only add more versatility to V4 and it just might boost some sales for all the talented texturers in the MP. In other words, you'll be making a lot of people very happy. Go for it!!
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cyberscape posted Thu, 10 May 2007 at 7:14 PM
I believe it's just a texture thing. BTW Dave, if you could do a tutorial later on how you accomplished this, I'd love to see it! (hint, hint) ;)
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pjz99 posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 1:20 AM
In order for any model to take a texture file, the model needs to have a UV Map, which is basically a map that tells different parts of the texture to stick to whichever facet on the model.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uv_mapping
http://www.uvmapper.com/ (a very common, free tool that is widely used and many tutorials available)
and ps: no, it wouldn't have any effect whatsoever on morphs, morphs are completely independent of UVMap info. It is possible to remap V4 to V3 so the two figures can use the same texture files, but there's no analogue for morphs, it's just a completely different concept.
estherau posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 1:28 AM
I'd buy it. Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
jeffg3 posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 1:41 AM
OH YES!
I would pay. It would take me about .0005 seconds to pay.
Shoot, I would PREPAY.
estherau posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 2:16 AM
Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=1400
fantasy angel set by shadownet - has some great clouds too! love estherI aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
pjz99 posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 2:19 AM
JoePublic posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 3:51 AM
HeHe...
Why am I not surprised by some of the reactions ?
:biggrin:
What I'm talking about is that once we have a fully remapped V4, we can use this figure to build additional hybrids.
First we could put V4's head on V3's body.
Such a figure could use V3 textures, wear V3 clothes, bend like V3, and especially morph like V3, so you can use all your favourite character morphs like GND2, but with V4's new face.
It's like the DAZ' V4toV3 figure but without all the limitations.
Secondly we could put V3's head on V4's body.
You have a favorite V3 character you're using, but want to try out V4's body, then such a hybrid could give you both.
So if dphoadly actually would do this, we could have THREE new figures, not just one:
A standard V4 (or V4.1) that takes V3 textures.
V4's head on V3's body to use V3 bodyshapes and clothes.
V3's head on V4's body to use V3's faces with V4's body.
kalon posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 4:07 AM
Quote - Dave, I would like to see the free Apollo Maximus remapped to accept M3 textures. I like him much better than M3 and I have lots of M3 textures.
I would love to see this as well. I asked Anton and he doesn't have a problem with it, but mentions DAZ should be cleared also. He also mentioned that AM's current mapping is of higher quality.
RorrKonn posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 4:22 AM
I think V4 was made in Modo.
Modo had a video of Modo unwrapping a Characters head 2D UV map with in seconds.
Very Impressive.
zBrush,C4D auto maps and you paint right on the mesh.
zBrush maps where not like 2D maps.
C4D's auto maps are not really 2D Ready but ya can tweak them manually like in UVMapper.
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EnglishBob posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 4:41 AM Online Now!
I'd buy - a complete package for me would include a remap of the V4 to V3 figure as well. When V3 was released, there was a remapped version which took V1/V2 textures, available at DAZ - Will Dupre mentions it in the DAZ thread that's linked above. It was distributed as a UVS file which could be decoded using UVMapper IIRC. I'd hope that DAZ's attitude would be the same; if it helps sell more V4s, then it's fine. ;)
Lucifer_The_Dark posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 5:08 AM
Don't forget most of the main Daz figures are supported by UTC so if V4 is remapped to V3 textures any of the others can be converted for use on V4R.
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dphoadley posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 5:17 AM
Quote - Don't forget most of the main Daz figures are supported by UTC so if V4 is remapped to V3 textures any of the others can be converted for use on V4R.
Everything here is true, except for the name. I was thinking of calling the figure Victoria43. If anyone can think of a better, more imaginative name for the figure, I'm open to suggestions.
DPH
pjz99 posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 5:21 AM
JoePublic:
Quote - What I'm talking about is that once we have a fully remapped V4, we can use this figure to build additional hybrids.
First we could put V4's head on V3's body.
Not trying to tell you that's a bad idea, but I really don't think it will be that simple. If you take the whole Head actor for one figure, and weld onto the other body, then I think chances are 50/50 that you'll have to add at least one vertex on one side or the other, right? This would break the morphs for that bodypart, and I'm pretty sure would also make the UVmap invalid. Even if you didn't have a problem there, it is very likely you'd have a pretty rough texture join along where you welded, at least in some spots. I'm not saying don't try, just that you're asking for something quite different from what Dave is looking at doing, remapping the whole figure with no provision for your Frankenstein project.
estherau posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 5:26 AM
what about just putting the figures together and making the body of one invisable and the head of the other and leaving both necks to kind of merge together? love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
EnglishBob posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 5:31 AM Online Now!
Quote - I was thinking of calling the figure Victoria43. (DPH)
That might cause trouble in a few years' time, when DAZ are wondering what to call the successor to Victoria 42. :lol:
pjz99 posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 5:34 AM
Quote - what about just putting the figures together and making the body of one invisable and the head of the other and leaving both necks to kind of merge together? love esther
You'll still probably have a rough texture join - OK for stills because you could concievably postwork it out, but useless for animation. For what you plan to do it'd probably be fine though (comics work).
dphoadley posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 5:37 AM
Quote - > Quote - I was thinking of calling the figure Victoria43. (DPH)
That might cause trouble in a few years' time, when DAZ are wondering what to call the successor to Victoria 42. :lol:
We should all live so long! Halavai!
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JoePublic posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 5:45 AM
@pjz99: You're generally correct, but the process isn't that hard.
To make a hybrid you need new neck geometry, or at least a modified neck.
The head and the body meshes stay exacly the same.
If you look very closely at the picture I posted, you see a small discoloration around the middle of the neck.
It's because the head and the upper part of the neck of my "prototype" still use V4 textures while the body and lower part of the neck use V3 textures.
So, if I could use a V4 head that is already remapped for V3,
only a very small part of the (new) neck would actually have to be remapped.
The larger parts and the body and the head wouldn't have to be modified at all.
The far bigger problem is that the new neck needs custom made morphs so it matches with the default bodymorphs.
But with Cage and Spanki's morph transfer script this has become easier to do than ever.
Of course the original cr2 has to be modified so that it combines V4 head morphs with V3 body injection channels, and some joint parameters for the eyes and head will have to be changed a bit, too.
JoePublic posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 5:56 AM
And just for fun, here is what V3's head on V4's body looks like.
bagginsbill posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 7:04 AM
Attached Link: Matmatic Ultra Basic Skin by bagginsbill
you said "I have lots and lots of V3 textures (most of them free, but a dozen or so commercial) Only one of those makes (limited) use of the material room."
Methinks you need to learn to do this yourself as the people who do texture work seem to know next to nothing about skin shaders or intentionally don't use shaders because they want to maximize their coverage with P4, including DAZ. The new V4 shaders were actually written by face_off, and since he didn't want toj/couldn't use "realshader" script for SSS, he used one of my cheesy hacks I posted in the forums. Let's here it for cheesy hackery!
Anyway, I recently posted a thread in the Node Cult at RDNA showing how to use the standard V3 texture from DAZ to get a much better result. The technique is very simple, and while I did it with Matmatic, you can do it yourself manually. It only needs 3 nodes to get quite a nice effect. Adding a couple more spots nodes makes it even more interesting.
The technique can and should be applied to every texture you have. The details of the individual settings will vary with the overall tone of each texture and what you're trying to do with it, but the general shape of the shader should be the same in all cases.
You should check it out - follow the link.
The attached image demonstrates with the DAZ V3 high-res textures. There are lots more pictures in the linked thread.
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svdl posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 11:08 AM
When rendering in Poser (don't do that too much these days) I usually fix up the shaders. I'm rather partial to takezo(some number after the name) 's fake SSS setup, posted here about a year ago, it works pretty well with most lighting. Haven't gotten around to scripting it in a wacro yet, but replacing the texture maps in the shaders by hand isn't too much work.
I'll look into the link, it's always useful to learn about other ways to get results.
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KarenJ posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 11:49 AM
David -
How about Victoria 43?
"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
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KarenJ posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 11:50 AM
Although it would annoy everyone when posting about her as they'd have to write the html code (since the FCK editor doesn't have a pulldown style for superscript.) So perhaps not :o)
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something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
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Lucifer_The_Dark posted Fri, 11 May 2007 at 12:22 PM
Quote - Everything here is true, except for the name. I was thinking of calling the figure Victoria43. If anyone can think of a better, more imaginative name for the figure, I'm open to suggestions.
DPH
I'm sure whatever name she ends up with will be just fine :D
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Shadowbear posted Sat, 12 May 2007 at 6:01 PM
Yes, I would be interested and V43 sounds good to me.
The question is how much and when.
RorrKonn posted Sat, 12 May 2007 at 10:26 PM
How about the name " V4-m3 "
Acronym for V4 mapped to V3.
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Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
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Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
Casette posted Sun, 13 May 2007 at 4:34 AM
Quote - How about the name " V4-m3 "
Acronym for V4 mapped to V3.
Eww... sounds like remapping V3 to take M3 textures... :lol:
CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"
dphoadley posted Sun, 13 May 2007 at 4:38 AM
momodot posted Sun, 13 May 2007 at 1:04 PM
Vanya V4UnimeshMap?
DP! You are actually doing it?! Bravo!
JOELGLAINE posted Sun, 13 May 2007 at 9:26 PM
I think it would sell! The possibility of more figure variance is ALWAYS a good thing! I'd say go for it!
I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act
together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is
the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!
Channing posted Sun, 13 May 2007 at 9:55 PM
David, This project sounds great ... alternatives are a plus in my book!
AntoniaTiger posted Tue, 15 May 2007 at 4:06 AM
One of the Japanese modellers has a set of instructions, and a revised neck mesh, to put the V2 head on the V3 body. I've used it, because V2 has some head morphs which V3 doesn't. If you're doing stuff with P5+ math nodes to generate materials without texturemaps, both V4 and V3 have awkward features in the UVmapping. Some things are still easier with the V2 mapping.
hirumono posted Fri, 18 May 2007 at 2:58 AM
Sounds like a wonderful idea to me. If it has a reasonable price, I'd definitely buy it! I could use my collection of V3 textures on V4, some of which are never to be converted by their authors. (I understand their creativity brings them to think about something new than remaking old works... but each character is unique and I want them all!)
BTW, if you could write a tutorial about remapping textures, I'd be VERY grateful, as I have the same problem with Miki 1 and 2: the differences in mapping are really small, but nonetheless, textures for Miki1 won't work on 2nd version, and I just want to use Nubya on Miki!!!
kalon posted Fri, 18 May 2007 at 8:02 AM
It also opens up the possiblity of using your M3 and D3 maps on Vittorio 4. I am so looking forward to this.
dphoadley posted Fri, 18 May 2007 at 10:25 AM
kobaltkween posted Fri, 18 May 2007 at 1:10 PM
yay! i can't wait for this. as i mentioned in the daz thread, i'd be willing to pay $20 to $30 for it.
yungturk39 posted Tue, 29 May 2007 at 11:24 AM
Thanks for the tip. I'd definitely be interested in paying for this if you can legally do it.
'Looking forward to the remapped Dork! :)
momodot posted Tue, 29 May 2007 at 3:32 PM
dp, did anyone ever re-group the Posette remap to take V3 MATposes?
dphoadley posted Tue, 29 May 2007 at 10:56 PM
Quote - dp, did anyone ever re-group the Posette remap to take V3 MATposes?
Yes, a few even sent me UV's that would make this possible; but I've decided not to post them for reasons of my health. I posted two threads (one in the Copywrite forum, and one here in the General forum) asking whether there would be a violation of copywrite if I were to do so. The heat generated from these threads made me decide to leave sleeping dogs lie
DPH
JoePublic posted Wed, 30 May 2007 at 6:06 AM
"The heat generated from these threads made me decide to leave sleeping dogs lie"
There is no reason not to add V3's grouping, too.
The DAZ EULA for V3 covers EVERYTHING about V3, and that includes her mapping style and the grouping.
Posette-V3 already IS a violation of DAZ' V3 EULA because the simple fact that she can use V3's textures already makes her a derivative work.
But DAZ doesn't mind, as long as she is only distributed properly encoded against V3.
In fact Posette-V3 has to be double encoded: Once against V3 because she uses her UV-pattern and secondly against Posette because she uses her geometry.
BTW, the V2 style mapping IS NOT covered by any EULA, that's why figures like Judy or NEAena or MAYA-doll don't need to be encoded against V2.
So regrouping Posette-V3 to accept V3 MAT's doesn't add any further legal problems.
As I said, Posette-V3 already IS a violation of DAZ EULA, so it simply doesn't matter if you add some more of V3's functionality.
DAZ is very generous in that regard: As long as you encode yourfinal product using V3 as the key, you can "borrow" as much from V3 as you like.
But encoding IS a MUST.
And in Posette-V3's case, DOUBLE ENCODING is a must, because she also uses Posette's geometry.
bevans84 posted Wed, 30 May 2007 at 5:23 PM
Refresh my memory, exactly what V3 geometry does Posette-V3 use?
I've been through it pretty thoroughly and haven't ran across any, I don't think you have either.
I'm one of those that sent DPH a V3 MAT ready Posette obj file. There's no trick to it, just load the obj file in a modeling program and rename the appropriate parts. Anyone should be able to do it. Just keep in mind that the names are case sensitive.
Seems like there are some folk that are carrying quite a grudge against David. I think it's neat that he took the time to pull it off and am looking forward to the V4 version. Put me down for a copy when released.
JoePublic posted Wed, 30 May 2007 at 6:15 PM
You obviously completely misread my post.
Where do I claim that Posette-V3 contains V3 geometry ?
She can use V3 maps, and THAT ALREADY makes her a derivative work according to the DAZ' EULA.
Plain and simple.
So, as she already IS a derivate work of V3, it would be stupid to NOT include V3's grouping also.
Because a Posette-V3 that can only use V3's textures but not V3's MAT's isn't "more legal" than a Posette-V3 that can use both.
As long as she is properly encoded, DAZ doesn't mind which parts from V3 you "borrow".
But you must understand that her mapping and grouping and joints and morphs and general shape are equally protected "parts" of V3 and not just the "raw" geometry.
That's at least what the V3 EULA says.
bevans84 posted Thu, 31 May 2007 at 6:59 AM
I believe DPH used the F202 Dollie UV's.
This has all been hashed and rehashed in the L2V3 issue (Sixus1)
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2165790&page=1
Although the main issue there was joint parameters and body shape, the mapping was touched upon although unanswered.
AFAIK, the mapping issue has NEVER been tested, therefore can not be assumed as fact. Lot's of opinions though.
Dajadues posted Thu, 31 May 2007 at 7:19 AM
I'm one of the folks that are against this idea because it's stupid and a cheap way out for people to swap textures from one to the other. I have nothing against David. Id be aginst it no matter who did it. I have V3/V4 bases and Posette. The textures to me dont look right. Not out of the box it doesn't. V3 on Posette looks stupid. (MHO)
I can't imagine how this isn't against Daz's copyright. I can't imagine why Daz would allow him to sell this or anyone else for that matter who decided to remap to me it feels like a form of stealing. I just dont see the point in it and never will.
Seems to be a lot of work. Why not just make your own textures? Why remap? I dont get it? Make your own textures for each of the figures and sell them?
I cant see paying money for it. When I can go buy textures for these figures anyway. I'll get flamed for this but I don't care. I spent good money on these figures & their textures. You want to cheat and swap textures on figs, feel free. I won't buying it.
Good luck.
Casette posted Thu, 31 May 2007 at 12:09 PM
@Dajadues
You're right. V3 on Posette looks stupid
Of course... :glare: some stupid advantages: extra-short-stupid-render times being a low-poly figure, stupid recover of a great (and stupid) figure, new (and stupid) possibilities of Posette under P6 and P7 impossible to imagine when she was released with P4...
A V4 remapped to take V3 textures? Another stupid idea. Over all if you (like meh) are owner of hundred of excellent V3 textures and you has the ridiculous (and stupid) idea of working with all them without buying more toons of new ones. Stupid thing, over all if your runtime is multiple (4 runtimes in my case), with more than 30 GB, and it's a way to re-utilize all your stuff
I have Posette, V2, V3, V4, SheFreak, SP1, SP3. TheGirl, Aiko3... and I hope to be able to use my textures with all them at least until Poser10. So welcome to ideas like dphoadley's
But of course, I'm stupid :tt2:
CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"
JOELGLAINE posted Thu, 31 May 2007 at 12:09 PM
Swapping textures on a figure is CHEATING? My god! I've heard it all, now! RTE encoding is permissable with DAZ. You HAVE to have the original figure, or you can't use any derivitives. You are free to believe anything you want, but I strongly disagree with you on this, Dajadues.
I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act
together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is
the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!
Tiari posted Thu, 31 May 2007 at 7:09 PM
We're all stupid I guess. I guess not only do we have to be users, but designers and texture makers too? Look, I dont know how to build a stove, but I can cook. Just because I can use posette (or v3 or whatever) and not make a texture doesn't make me inferior......... stupid.
Its all be stated so I won't reiterate. I guess we just have to keep buying..... in some people's opinions, until our bank accounts burst. I suppose then there will be joy and happiness in the world.
If he doesn't want to use it, fine by me, more for me to love far as I'm concerned. I don't see anything wrong with it as I already OWN the base figures, and tada, the textures I plan to use (yes i paid for them...... was that stupid?) and I want to use them on other figures and stretch the life out of them.
Kudos David, don't let the turkeys get you down.
Tiari posted Thu, 31 May 2007 at 7:19 PM
P.S. Just another stupid example of the stupid remapped posette with v3 textures looking well....... stupid on her:
yungturk39 posted Thu, 31 May 2007 at 10:55 PM
Thanks again, for the remapped Posette, Dave. You've given me a virtual Harem, here.
If I could use these same textures on V4, I'd probably go on a buying frenzy. As for now, I don't even own V4.
JOELGLAINE posted Fri, 01 June 2007 at 1:35 AM
@_____@ Holy Crap! THAT render just rendered me stupid! Duhr.........
:lol:
I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act
together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is
the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!
Casette posted Fri, 01 June 2007 at 3:09 AM
Quote - P.S. Just another stupid example of the stupid remapped posette with v3 textures looking well....... stupid on her:
Tiari, pretty LOVELY !!! :tt1:
CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"
jeffg3 posted Fri, 01 June 2007 at 6:12 AM
So are those of us who would like to get P4 remaped to V3 out of luck?
Have we "missed the boat"?
Has the "train left the station"?
Are we "up a creek without a paddle"?
et cetera et cetera ad infinitum....
kobaltkween posted Fri, 01 June 2007 at 2:24 PM
just to say- i sometimes sketch my images first (which pretty much always means they're better), and that means that my main figure(s) will have a specific look before i choose a figure. anything that makes that choice simpler, easier and more accurate to my vision is a very welcome addition. i have several textures of types rare to v3, not guaranteed for v4, and non-existant for posette. i find when i look at my sketches, i see different figures with various tonal combinations (e.g., pale skin and black hair, pure deep dark skin, golden tan with pale blonde, etc.). in the past, i've mostly used v3 because i knew i could find the right texture for her. making it so i can use the appropriate figure would be better. i do this in my spare time, and i'm often pushing poser (or d|s) to its limits. with hours spent on setting up the scene, each test render taking as long as an hour, and me being technically deficient but picky about lights, i find that i mostly don't have time to learn how to texture figures, and certainly not time to learn on a figure with as many seams as v4. i'd love to get into it at some point, but even then, i doubt it will be for every picture. and i suspect i'll start off very unrealistic.
i see nothing wrong, misguided, cheating or unintelligent with being interested in something that expands the functionality of textures i already paid for, to a figure i've already paid a lot for. especially when i expect to pay a lot more for future morphs.
kalon posted Fri, 01 June 2007 at 3:00 PM
I hate the concept of disposable art. As if art works on a timelimited basis. Good today, yesterday's fad. Some of Poserdom's very best textural artists have produced phenomenal textures for V3. These will in all likelihood never be duplicated. But as time moves on, more and more people will move to V4. Granted the V3 textures can still be used on the other Mil3 figures, until they're upgraded.
So works of art, like Morris's Miss April, Sydd's Shahara or Ravenessa, Danae's Milla... what, they just become disposable trash?
I cannot see why this idea is so threatening to some people. If you've purchased V4, you will likely buy new works of art designed for V4, but with a remapped V4 you'll manage to snatch some true masterpieces off of the (eventual) virtual trash heap. That's a good thing.
And as for the legalities... DAZ has never, to my knowledge, been a slouch in the protecting their rights. If they aren't complaining...?
RAMWorks posted Fri, 01 June 2007 at 4:02 PM
Quote -
So works of art, like Morris's Miss April, Sydd's Shahara or Ravenessa, Danae's Milla... what, they just become disposable trash?
I cannot see why this idea is so threatening to some people. If you've purchased V4, you will likely buy new works of art designed for V4, but with a remapped V4 you'll manage to snatch some true masterpieces off of the (eventual) virtual trash heap. That's a good thing.
And as for the legalities... DAZ has never, to my knowledge, been a slouch in the protecting their rights. If they aren't complaining...?
I totally agree with your points of view!! Also, David DID start a thread over at the DAZ forums and I think Will or one of DAZ's boys popped in and didn't mention anything like it was wrong or what ever. I think David is smart enough to know that RTEncoding is going to be the way to go. 
---Wolff On The Prowl---
kalon posted Fri, 01 June 2007 at 8:28 PM
@ Tiari
That is truly an exceptional piece of work, very lovely. I especially love the vulnerable eyes.
Tiari posted Sat, 02 June 2007 at 5:08 PM
TYVM! Its the Zora (or zorza i'd have to check) texture for v3 from illusion designs if i'm not mistaken. Though the same texture it looks ENTIRELY different (even better to me) on posette because her features can be a bit more expressive (non horrifically pinched fairy/nicole kidman nose) lol
dphoadley posted Wed, 13 June 2007 at 11:13 PM
dphoadley posted Wed, 13 June 2007 at 11:17 PM
The face is the Duke morph is by BastBlack for the P4NudeMan (available here in Freestuff).
The skin texture is the Heike for Michael 3 by XTX. It used to be available here in freestuff, but the link has gone dead. Maybe somebody can fix it, because this is a very good texture.
Hair is from Kozaburo.
The loincloth is a leapard texture applaid to P4DukeM3's now remapped alternate hip. (I've given it, its own material zone, so that one can use it in a more natural way than before, for those more decorous renders, and without having to do major surgery to the texture maps).
The knife is a Questor freebie available in Daz's freestuff.
I've really gotten to like this figure, since I've worked so hard on him
Yours truly,
David P. Hoadley
nickedshield posted Wed, 13 June 2007 at 11:25 PM
Looks very nice, you made Dork a highly useable figure.
I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.
Faery_Light posted Wed, 13 June 2007 at 11:38 PM
I think it's a great idea. I am a texture maker and I really don't want to go and re-fit my V3 textures to V4 as a retail product. I prefer to make all new textures. But if someone wants to swap back and forth, I'd either have to make them as a product or David's remapped set would work fine. Do I think it will lose me sales? No, I think people will still buy what they like and more so if they can swap easier. So... Go David, go!!! :thumbupboth:
Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.
Latexluv posted Mon, 18 June 2007 at 2:38 PM
I think its a great idea! I'd also be interested if someone swapped out V4's head for V3. V4 has a lovely body (so did Aiko 3), but I'm not happy with the head, it's morphing seems limited to me. Same case was with Aiko, the "Realistic" Morph just really doesn't do what it says. Head swapping would be great for both figures.
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
lkendall posted Mon, 18 June 2007 at 6:54 PM
6/18/07
David:
How about Victoria 423?
LMK
Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.
dphoadley posted Fri, 13 July 2007 at 12:41 PM
dphoadley posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 3:47 AM
kobaltkween posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 4:39 AM
go, david, go!
JOELGLAINE posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 5:12 AM
Looking good! Keep up the good work!
I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act
together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is
the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!
PabloS posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 7:32 AM
I'm watching this thread with great interest! Somehow, the current "inventory" of V4 textures aren't doing it for me ... I'd sure love to be able to use some of my V3 favorites!
Thanks David for the monumental effort!
dphoadley posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 8:23 AM
Quote - I'm watching this thread with great interest! Somehow, the current "inventory" of V4 textures aren't doing it for me ... I'd sure love to be able to use some of my V3 favorites!
Thanks David for the monumental effort!
I'm not surprised. The advantage of the V4 mapping is that the thighs, arms, and nipples, can be rendered in greater & higher detail, but it is at a terrible price in my opinion. What has be sacrificed is the trerritorial integrity of the texture itself. Instead, it's been broken up into little automonous fiefs, disjointed from each other. I can't even begin to imagine making a comprehensive texture under such conditions.
David P. Hoadley
Rodma_Hu posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 11:42 AM
Yes.
SamTherapy posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 11:49 AM
Simple answer, David, yes, I'd buy it.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
kobaltkween posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 1:54 PM
Quote - I think its a great idea! I'd also be interested if someone swapped out V4's head for V3. V4 has a lovely body (so did Aiko 3), but I'm not happy with the head, it's morphing seems limited to me. Same case was with Aiko, the "Realistic" Morph just really doesn't do what it says. Head swapping would be great for both figures.
ooops, just really noticed this. kamilche's free Shapeshifter script (bottom of the page) will swap heads with figures that have the same mesh. so, all the unimesh figures can exchange heads, v1, v2 and the mill kids can exchange heads with each other, etc. so you can put v3's head on aiko's body, and transfer the morphs over, if you want.
drifterlee posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 2:51 PM
I think it's a great idea. I hardly ever use the male charcters but I have lots of V3 character textures I would love to use on V4. A real money saver, too.
RAMWorks posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 3:04 PM
I totally agree with you David. Getting my very first full texture pack out for Vittorio was a nightmare in the beginning figureing out the seams. What a pain in @SS that was!!
Looking better and better and looking forward to the final product!!! :-)
---Wolff On The Prowl---
crucibelle posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 5:34 PM
I will definitely be buying this when it becomes available. Samildanach's V3 textures are among my favorites and it will be great to be able to use them with V4! :biggrin:
drifterlee posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 5:53 PM
I will buy it, too!!!! Good luck, Dave!
dphoadley posted Sat, 21 July 2007 at 3:41 PM
JOELGLAINE posted Sat, 21 July 2007 at 5:41 PM
Are the hands all that's Left? It looks pretty finished from the picture!
I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act
together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is
the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!
dphoadley posted Sat, 21 July 2007 at 9:13 PM
RAMWorks posted Sat, 21 July 2007 at 9:18 PM
WOW!! Really coming along David. Very excited!!! :)
---Wolff On The Prowl---
crucibelle posted Tue, 24 July 2007 at 9:07 PM
I'm really excited, too. Way to go, David! :)
estherau posted Tue, 24 July 2007 at 10:17 PM
shhh - don't interrupt him. let him work
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
dphoadley posted Thu, 26 July 2007 at 4:40 AM
dphoadley posted Thu, 26 July 2007 at 4:43 AM
dphoadley posted Thu, 26 July 2007 at 4:43 AM
dphoadley posted Thu, 26 July 2007 at 4:44 AM
dphoadley posted Thu, 26 July 2007 at 4:44 AM
