Why are they gonna waste their goals on making a 3d movie for kids, who probably don't even admire the hard work of 3d ?? Why not make it more realistic like a movie with elaborate stories and dramatic stuff, but for adults. just alike a real life PG13, or R movie. That's one thing.. the next is why they do all this cartoony comical animation of characters, which is not even funny.. perhaps only for kids. But seriously , when i've seen it , the comical stuff is pretty cheesy. Back to my main point.. why waste all your 3d effort and money to make a money for kids, who don't even admire the 3d work.. and don't yet understand it? For example lots of 3 year olds, and 4 year olds watch it. I betcha a Poser made low budget project would be just as fun and entertaining for kids. They do this alot now. Big 3d high quality film productions, but cheesy comical.. and for kids who might not even care about High textured, photorealistic characters. They gotta start putting their hard 3d work for people who are going to admire it.

I just seen it tonight, I did not think it was that cheesy. I went 4 adults and all liked it.  The funny thing is only me and one the other in our group was looking at the textures,lighting,effects and so forth.  I'd rate it a B+ to A -.

Why? It makes money for them and that is what counts in the biz. They have made a third movie out figures that they already have and did not have to spend as much work or money on the next two.

Kids don't care how it is made. Hell most adults don't give a rats a$$ how it was made. They go to see the story and have fun not anal-ize on the how.

As for cheesy comic, that sells at every age. I have not seen this one, I'll wait until it's on HBO or what ever movie channel it comes out on. But I have seen most others and I don't think that the comedy is cheesy, I even catch lines that only someone as old as me would catch the joke and only if you were aware of the situation that the joke referred to, quite often the 60's and 70's.

Also, what you might think is cheesy, others might think clever. Have you ever watched Kaena: The Prophecy. You might get what your looking for with that one.

***...but the whole animation and story is too Kiddy,, why?? 
*** Cuz it's a kids movie maybe!!!  The big companies (Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks...) are all mainly catering to child audiences...  the fact that grown ups enjoy them (non CGI types like us) is mainly due to the "grown up" popular culture references and music etc that usually goes over the heads of the younger viewers (remember Will Smiths character in Shark Tale yelling "You had me at hello" to Renee Zelweiger's character?).  Folks like us enjoy them for usually the 3D first (myself, maybe others here) and the aforesaid reasons.  Something like Shrek is most likely aimed at the youth consumers so they can get Mom & Dad to buy them the Shrek 3rd video game and Shrek 3rd Operation game and Shrek 3rd Cadilac Escalade etc...  Then considering something like Ergo Proxy (current fave anime) and Samurai Champloo & Cowboy Bebop (see my avatar baby?  YEAH!!) are aimed at older youth to adult audiences.  

The Shreks & Toy Storys and Finding Nemos are always gonna be cheezy and kiddy cuz that's what 99.9% of kids like!  And that's gonna make a lotta dough for the movie studios!

And on a side not...  Why oh why tebop do you start a potentially controversial flame bait-y thread every week!!!  I'm not trying to be a jerk but I've been noticing a trend in your posts in the last while...  that's just me!

Gerard

The GR00VY GH0ULIE!

You are pure, you are snow
We are the useless sluts that they mould
Rock n roll is our epiphany
Culture, alienation, boredom and despair

Oh and to add...  me and my 8 year old daughter went to Shrek the 3rd today and both enjoyed it for our own reasons!

Gerard

The GR00VY GH0ULIE!

You are pure, you are snow
We are the useless sluts that they mould
Rock n roll is our epiphany
Culture, alienation, boredom and despair

ooooh, I'm so jealous, I don't get to see it till tomorrow! 

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Ok i guess bann my posts. I don't know what i can post or not.. It was related to poser because i asked why not use Poser and make it cheaper instead of going for big budget when kids are not gonna care abot the graphics so much? .. That's why i put it in poser forum. ok i have to accept.. go ahead and bann me. it's ok. i'll find another hobby :( bye bye everyone

tebop...  I wasn't trying to drive you away with my question...   I was curious as this post, your "not so good artists" post and a few other always seemed to turn into flame fests.  I suppose I'm just wondering if you're trying to be inflamatory on purpose or if you weren't aware of the way your posts can be perceived by some (myself only as I cannot speak for anyone but myself).

I apologise if you feel slighted by my question.

Gerard

The GR00VY GH0ULIE!

You are pure, you are snow
We are the useless sluts that they mould
Rock n roll is our epiphany
Culture, alienation, boredom and despair

cause  they tried and they flopped 

Final Fantasy anyone LOL< (I BTW Loved the FF feature)

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Reboot was the one that got me to notice computer animation. The comedy was slapstick and a lot was aimed at adults. And there is a company that has made a name for themselfs creating low budget movies. They do the Hotwheels and Barbie and to many to name movies. MainFrame. Check them out if you have a chance.

I don't think your giving kids enough credit. I think if they saw a Poser rigged figure, they would say cheesy. My 8 year old nephew can sure pick a movie or TV show apart. They notice a lot more than you think.

I don't think poser would be very cheep when it came to production. You would need to post all the joints of every frame. You would need to have unique looking figures. whether you model them or modify canned figures.  There is the lighting and the materials and lets not forget the render times. It just makes money sence to use higher end apps that do more.

I'm a big CowboyBebop fan too. Still would like to have a Faye Valentine Character. I might make that my next project.

Attached Link: http://www.ergoproxydvd.com/

Reboot  for me too!!   I remember seeing that  way back in  '94 and thinking  it was  SO AWESOME!!!!   I was 23  then  and  I  suppose adult-like then!!  Then a week later I had to stop by the Sony Music office here and saw that Mainframe was in the same building and I was uber impressed that such a high tech awesome-sauce kinda show was made right here in Vancouver!  And my daughter has ALL the Mainframe Barbie dvd's and to be honest I've always been very impressed with the background set meshs they've used for those and the colour design has always been pretty good too for the Barbie movies!  (IMHO)

And about Bebop...  I've always been wanting to do some 3D Poser type stuff based on it but have never really got started on it...  Hmmm...  been wanting a new project...   BUT...  right now I'm hooked on Ergo Proxy...  gorgeous design from characters, colour & architectural types...   picked up the first 3 dvd's this week and can't wait for the next 3 in the next couple of months!!  I think it would be cool to do some Poser Ergo Proxy stuff too...  another Hmm...  need more time in life!!!

Gerard

The GR00VY GH0ULIE!

You are pure, you are snow
We are the useless sluts that they mould
Rock n roll is our epiphany
Culture, alienation, boredom and despair

Oh yeah, beryld...  do you remember the Sculder & Mully binomes???  Definately not kids stuff, yet on a kids show...  even way back then they were still catering to the kiddies and still giving some giggles to the grown ups!!  These companies must know what they're soing or something!!

Gerard

The GR00VY GH0ULIE!

You are pure, you are snow
We are the useless sluts that they mould
Rock n roll is our epiphany
Culture, alienation, boredom and despair

Yep, I was thinking that when I was posting. But there is something in every episode.

I get a kick out of Hack and Slash. Hockey. Blue and Red/ Leafs and Habs. A few Canadian references in the series. Now how many kids would have caught that. let alone, non Canadian adults.

Wish they would release the DVD's again.

You might as well ask, tebop, why people producing kids' films use such big name actors to star in them. I mean, for a fraction of the cost, you could get several lesser-known, lower-quality actors, and the kids wouldn't care, because they have so low expectations and criteria, right? They're only kids, after all - why should they care about the quality of someone's acting, or how much they commanded in fees to appear?

There are two driving factors in this: firstly, all major film companies (note the use of the word major here, mind) make sure their work is of a certain production quality. That's true whether it be live-action, traditional cel animation, 3d, whatever. And quality costs. You are never going to see a full-length professional production in your local multiplex that was conceived, animated and rendered in Poser, no matter what iteration or how advanced it gets. Why? Because just as Poser keeps advancing, so will all the higher-end apps, allowing for more to be done (besides, many of these studios use custom-built versions of software, allowing them to do stuff that no-one else can; it's another way of keeping your productions identifiable with your style).

Secondly... whilst it may be kids who put the bums on seats, it's adults who pay for the tickets and take their children. And adults want to sit through good quality films, not blocky, low quality animations thrown out by a couple of student in a weekend. The production quality has to be high in order to guarantee bums on seats.

Actually, I just thought of a third point, as well. Why do you assume that kids won't notice the quality of a productio like Shrek? Sure, they might not know all the technical terms for the lighting, modeling, rigging, and so forth: but they still know the difference betwen quality and crap. I have two kids of my own, and believe me, if something isn't up to snuff, they let me know about it. So suggesting that, just because your target audience is in a lower age bracket, you can somehow dial down your production values and skimp on money and quality, is completely off-beam. In fact, I'd say it's often the other way round - kids tend to be an even more demanding audience than adults, because they're less forgiving of what's put in front of them.

jonthecelt

tebop,  Er, becuse IT IS for kids? It's not intended for adults as far as I know. I don't see what the appeal would be for an adult. And something that extreme can not be made with Poser or any normal 3D app. That type of animation is done by the studio with far more than just a home computer running Poser on it. I'm fascinated by animation but not that kind. It's really not my type of movie anyway. I liked Ice Age better. :)

And it's summertime, kids will be out of school & the studios need to makeup for their loss with the crud they turnout all year so the kids movies are money makers for them. Whether they are poorly made or not, a family will go see it because it's better than what they turned out all year.

Hollywood can't do it on real movies anymore, so they make comic book movies & kids movies to make up for it during the summer. They have lost money this past year with all their flops. A cartoon will makeup for the losses much quicker than another clunker. They save all the good movies for this time of year because they know the parents will take their kids to go see it.

Quote - cause  they tried and they flopped 

Final Fantasy anyone LOL< (I BTW Loved the FF feature)

That was bad scriptwriting, not bad CG.....

Anyone remember planetary traveller?

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

If'n you want adult 3D fare, here's a couple suggestions,
Immortel, A French movie based on a Heavy Metal series (combo of Live action and Lightwave)
Renaissance, A French movie done in very cool black and white, software Maya
ReBoot, Canadain,seriously adult if you look behind the subtext
Delta State, Canadian French colab... rotoscoped but definately worh the look
Final Fantasy, spirits within, a very good first effort all things considered (except for the kiss which looked l;ike two volkswagens colliding)
Advent Children, Final Fantasy, really not for kiddlioes
Casshern, not fully computer gen but serious eye candy
and hey, you can always look into the Animation Section here at Rendo....not to mention that other site which deals with naughty bits.
there's a whole world out there that creates quality work, Hollywood isn't the only game in town.
and hey, do what a lot of us do.... create your own!

Shrek became a huge pop culture icon, bringing in millions of bucks... why NOt give o=it the "A list:" treatment? Seen any of the disney "direct to video" cheapies they vcrank out? God awful, and poor money makers compared with big blockbusters like Shrek that appeal to many different audiences on different levels. Shrek I and II are two of my favorite movies in the last few years.. they got the storys right, and the animation was spectacular.. that's why I can watch them over and over again.

Want to see a more "poser" like cgi movie? See Happily Never After...second string voice acting, second string cgi, second string storytelling.. I REALLY wanted to love that movie, but it just missed on almost all levels, and as a result, bombed at the box office.

There was a Red Riding hood cgio movie in the last year or so that also was done on the cheap, but had slightly better story telling, but also bombed.

Final Fantasy was beautiful, but the story appealed to almost no one, and it killed off the studio. I was really impressed with the new TMNT movie.. pretty damned good visuals, and storyline.. though the turtles voice acting bothered me for some reason on a few levels.

Only real "win" in cgi last year for me was Monster House... I really liked what they did with that. Barnyard was VERY Ho Hum, and Over the Hedge and ice Age II were just marginally better.

Give me Reboot: the Movie any old day, compared to some of these Shrek and Toy Story wannabes.

Tebop: We've all seen this before...if all your posts are all argumentive,and you are getting nothing but frustration from the forums,  you are "in" them too deep! Take a month sabbatical, go outside and ejoy life, and springtime, and come back refreshed, and more positive.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

When you come right down to it a 3D movie made in Poser CANNOT be done without a million rendering computer farms all going at once. It's impossible & would take a lifetime to finish. Hollywood can take up to 4 years to make a animated movie just think how long it would take using something like Poser?

(MHO)

As a parent of a child who has made me watch Shreks (1 and 2) roughly 5000000000000000 times so far, I appreciate Shrek and the way they make it.  The CG gives me something to be interested in - the cheese keeps him interested.  

So far, I have actually liked them both alot and am REALLY looking forward to something new to watch with the 3rd.

I am:  aka Velocity3d 

I love all the animated movies - IMO nothing cheesy about them - I find them more entertaining than other junk that is out there atm.

amen, it's nigh impossible to find a movie these days without TA flying all about.  That's fine and dandy but when I get a chance to watch a movie it's usually with my kids.

I am:  aka Velocity3d 

In addition, if we go back many years to the original Walt Disney movies and catoons, kids then didn't realize what all went into that(I know I had no clue) - all the storyboards - all the hand drawing that was involved - the scripts etc etc.  Only as we mature do we learn to appreciate such talents :)

As a matter of fact - Happy Feet is my favorite movie right now - I think I've watched it at least 5x already.

My kids understand the 3D aspect.  And appreciate it.   ;)

...... Kendra

A while back on tech tv there was an animation that starred a female character named Maya. Anyone remember that and if so do you know if it's available to view anywhere? Tried doing a search on G4 which is what they call it now, but only came up with references to the Maya program.
Thanks,
Marque

It's the start of the summer blockbusters. Turn off your brain for the next 4 months....

Quote - Have you ever watched Kaena: The Prophecy. You might get what your looking for with that one.

Oh no, that was a tough one. I had no idea what was going on. Had to be French. So gorgeous.

Ever see the animated series that was for a line of toys.... I think it was called Shadow Warriors, based on a toy line called Battle Planets? Long story arc, very epic, sometimes corny. All the characters were some unlikely combo of traits: military rock people, intelligent ice insects, fire skeletons(?), and courtly reptiles. There was a babe-bot from a water planet with a companion Vox.... I think the toys went straight to the discount bin, but the series was pretty good!

Maybe this was also from MainFrame? Looked sorta like ReBoot.

holly

Why are they gonna waste their goals on making a 3d movie for kids To make billions of dollars?

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&amp;userid=323368

why waste all your 3d effort and money to make a money for kids, who don't even admire the 3d work.. and don't yet understand it?

yes your right. and we should keep those damn kids from seeing art galleries and hearing classical music until they are 20. keep it all for the adults thats what I say..

[/sarcasm mode : off]

Quote -

yes your right. and we should keep those damn kids from seeing art galleries and hearing classical music until they are 20. keep it all for the adults thats what I say..

[/sarcasm mode : off]

 

Dont' forget theatre, as well - can't have them exposed to any of the classics of literature, drama, film or televsion until they're of an age to appreciate it properly.. after all, it's only the technical expertise that counts, not the content or the entertainment or emotional content of such things that matters. No, keep them fed on dumb, stupid, zero-technique, zero-quality fodder until they're of a suitable age... and THEN we'll try and work out how the hell we're going to educate them into how to appreciate something they've never had any context for.

sheesh.

jonthecelt

Shrek is based on a children's book. The movies reflect that. Simple explanation really.

My kids are 11 and 13 and both of them love the Shrek movies, not only for the 'cheesy' storylines but for the 3d aspect as well. Don't forget, there are a LOT of Poser/3d users who are parents, so there are lots of kids out there who actually know all about 3d.

And you know, sometimes it's nice to sit back and watch a movie that's got a simple storyline, has no gratuitous sex scenes and has 'laugh out loud' jokes.

I LOVE kid movies and I'm really looking forward to seeing Shrek.  Sometimes it's nice just to sit back and enjoy the gentle things in life. 

My idea of rebooting is kicking somebody in the butt twice!

Why are they gonna waste their goals on making a 3d movie for kids, who probably don't even admire the hard work of 3d ?? There is nothing preventing Hollywood and its international equivalents from doing precisely this. Personally, I'd like to see more films of this type also. However! Do kids have the same appreciation or understanding of the special effects work or hundreds of man hours that go into the costumes of a kid's movie like "Hook"? Probably not, but it doesn't prevent it from being made and enjoyed. Kids may never appreciate the singing talent that goes into a Disney film, either, that might otherwise be put to use on Broadway or in some other method, but it doesn't stop those talents from being applied in the Disney movie. A great deal of effort goes into a lot of movies that might not be appreciated for the sake or quality of the work involved by much of the audience, even if it's an audience of adults, so it what kind of work it is or what the target audience is never makes much of a difference to me in the end.

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

If it looks cheesy then maybe you should be wearing the 3D glasses while watching it? This version IS supposed to be in 3D. I saw the trailer for it. It looked good to me,  even without the wearing the 3D glasses so Im not understanding the cheesy part it's more campy than anything else.  It's that the idea behind it?

They actually had to decrease the realism on the first movie, intentionally. They had it too real and they didn't want that.

It's not just shrek, most CG movies of this sort are kid movies. Everything from pixar, disney, dreamworks and so on are all for kids, with some adult laughs thrown in for good measure. This is just how the western industry sees CG.

If you want more adult themes then there is always anime, which deals with much more varied stuff.

And we the audience get to enjopy both kinds of work, so it's all good...

Quote - ...If you want more adult themes then there is always anime, which deals with much more varied stuff./quote]

Don't forget Hentai.
DPH

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

I invoke rule 34 :p

Quote - I invoke rule 34 :p

"34. War is good for business."  ??

Rule 34

what rules are those? been on the net for years and never seen them lol

I work with the Rules of Acquisition...

I've never seen them numbered like that, though I've heard that statement going back well over a decade... probably longer than the places claiming to have created it (co-opted and popularized? sure, created? no) have existed at a guess.

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

I loved Final Fantasy. Graphics, animation AND story. But I agree it was definitely a bit too hard to understand for the big audience.

Giorgio

giorgio_2004 here, ksabers on XBox Live, PSN  and everywhere else.

The reason why big-time movies are made kiddy-fied is a simple matter of cash.

Many people aren't aware of the fact that G-rated movies -- on the average -- make FAR more money than R-rated movies do.  And an NC-17 rating is the kiss of death, mass market-wise.  Sure, there are crowds who are attracted by such ratings, but the reality is that those 'crowds' represent a relatively small percentage of the market.

Surprising fact:  the first R-rated movie to ever break into the ranks of the top-20 money-making movies of all time was The Matrix Reloaded.

Hollywood has begun to figure this one out (dragged along kicking and screaming all of the way).  So.....one solution has been to give PG-13 ratings to movies which should actually have been rated R.  And thus 'fool' the public into going to see R-rated movies.

A G rating draws bigger crowds in the theaters.  A lot of people -- especially Hollywood types -- don't like to recognize that fact; and thus the movie moguls continue to turn out the type of material which causes their box-office reciepts to continue to plummet year-by-year.  The biggest crowds just don't find Hollywood-leftist politcal polemics (which should be categorized as fantasy) like An Inconvenient Truth to be attractive for entertainment purposes.  Why should people spend their hard-earned cash to go watch something that's boring and preachy?

Such movies are often touted by the press as great successes merely because they made more money than they cost to make.  While 'conveniently' overlooking the fact that they didn't make very much........in box-office terms.  No: the real crowds were going to see Shrek.

Sure -- you can feed a certain niche-market appeal with horror movies like Hostel 2.  But you'll never make Shrek-type money with movies like that.  You can only make Shrek-type money with movies like Shrek.  Which some people think rhymes with "Drek"..........and then you can get into an argument about the utter worthlessness of pop culture in general.

If the goal is to SELL -- then you give the people what they want.  Not what your ideology informs you that they should want.  That's a perception problem which a lot of people have trouble with.

There's lotsa major production companies which are perfectly capable of turning out R-rated and NC-17 - rated CG movies (used to be called "X-rated" -- the "NC-17" rating was developed to try to lessen the negative cash-flow impact of the "X").  And those companies would be perfectly happy to be creating those types of movies if they could make any money with them.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Well said, Xeno :), well said!

I've spent more money on Shrek and kiddie animated movies then on other cinematic 3D genres put together. $0 on anime. Very little on special effects in combat movies. Some on movies like Lord of the Rings and The 300.

Rule 34... Shrek... uh oh, Nooooo.... I need to quickly think of something else...  Boulder, that is a niice boulder...

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
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Quote - If the goal is to SELL -- then you give the people what they want.  Not what your ideology informs you that they should want.  That's a perception problem which a lot of people have trouble with.

Unfortunately, some of it is pretty self fulfilling. Studios think that the audience wants kiddy G movies, so they produce them and promote them up the wazoo. People go see such movies because there isnt anything else on tap and they dont even realise you can have anything else. So of course the movie does well and the studios think the audience wants... and so on.

It is changing though as several hyped movies of this sort have flopped recently. Ant Bully was one big one that fell. Also polar express and that haunted house one. Happy feet got awards but it also barely did a profit. Flushed away, open season, also did mediocre business. The only one doing well consistently have been of course Pixar, but they produce the least kiddy fare of them all. Or if it is kiddy, the quality of their work makes up for it cause they rely more on deeply moving stories then snap talking animals doused in pop culture.

Also here's an interesting look at the whole thing... When you compare the largest online message boards:

Largest Online Boards

The largest one, a 7.5 million strong forum, is an anime themed board. There is nothing even close for all hollywood animated movies combined. Makes you wonder why some hollywood type isn't going after this market.

Why do we bother making anything at all for kids? They never appreciate any of it, especially the little ones, they are the worst! They should all just be locked in boxes, let then out only to go to school and to the bathroom (I aint cleaning those smelly boxes!)

Heck, ever seen a baby at Christmas? They toss out the toy and play with the box, so why put anything in the box at all? Perhaps we should just put the kid in the box and give it to the other kids, let them see what it’s like to be dissed first handed!

Now if Shrek, the donkey, and Princess Fiona got down for some hot and steamy threesomes; Now your talking about using 3D skills for something worth while! Perhaps if three little pigs and the gingerbread man had some real hankey panky going on with the witches and the ugly step sister - NOW WE'RE TALKING! And if the Big Bad Wolf did some real huffin and puffin and let Little Bo Peep do the blowin - NOW WE'RE TALKING!!

Personally I think Saturday morning is totally waisted on kids, they don't admire all the work that goes into those cartoons! Send them to work - Cartoon is MY Time!!!

(and NO, I aint jokeing either...)

Oh......nowhere did I say that EVERY G-rated movie is a roaring financial success.  Not all G-rated movies are created equal.  But what I did say was that in terms of overall earnings averages -- there's simply no comparison between G-rated fare and R-rated fare -- at least in terms of movies.

Quote - Unfortunately, some of it is pretty self fulfilling. Studios think that the audience wants kiddy G movies, so they produce them and promote them up the wazoo. People go see such movies because there isnt anything else on tap and they dont even realise you can have anything else. So of course the movie does well and the studios think the audience wants... and so on.

This represents the same sort of reasoning that one often sees put to use in those "how come people only want V4 stuff?" threads, where the specious claim is often made that the only reason why "V4 stuff" is so popular is because so many merchants make it.......which is like saying that the only reason why chocolate is so popular is because so many companies 'just happen' to manufacture chocolate.  Or the only reason why ice cream is so popular is because a lot of companies manufacture ice cream.  So -- according to this line of reasoning -- if only more companies would produce brussel sprouts -- THEN brussel sprouts would suddenly drastically increase in popularity over chocolate and ice cream.

Yeah, right.  And I've got a bridge in Brooklyn just waitin' to sell to ya..........

As for an anime board being popular......that's not in the least bit surprising.  Neither is the high volume of online adult-oriented traffic surprising in any way.  The reason?  It's because people much prefer to get their porn fix online -- where they at least have the illusion (and it is an illusion) of anonymity and privacy.  Likewise: a lot of people don't like to be seen walking into an NC-17 movie in a theater.  But they'll rent that same NC-17 movie on DVD from their local video store, and then watch it at home.  That's why certain movies do a lot better sales-wise on DVD than they do at the box office.  And that's why the old "adult movie grindhouses" are pretty much a thing of the past.

The largest market for adult stuff nowadays is online.  Not in movie theaters.

But even granting all of that -- Disney is a much, much bigger company than either Playboy, Inc. or Larry Flynt's outfit.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - Also here's an interesting look at the whole thing... When you compare the largest online message boards:

Largest Online Boards

The largest one, a 7.5 million strong forum, is an anime themed board. There is nothing even close for all hollywood animated movies combined. Makes you wonder why some hollywood type isn't going after this market.

Online message board membership isn't really as massive a significator as one might expect. Heck, I have an account on Gaia... somewhere, since a friend of mine wanted to show me a thread there. I logged in all of that once and probably wouldn't ever be able to remember what user name it was under. Happens a lot on a lot of boards. It's also international so far as I know -- and 7.5 million accounts, while a big number for an internet message board, is a drop in the bucket for the US population not to mention world population. Disney has actually taken an interest in anime. They're the ones distributing Studio Ghibli's work in the US last I checked. It tends to be easier for US media companies to pick up successful Japanese titles and dub them (often badly), subtitle them, or just re-release them here than it is for them to develop something themselves that has a similar feel or mood and have it produced. I have a feeling that may change when the current crop of artists, writers, and animators that's likely in college now hits the job market; it's a substantially stronger influence now than it was even ten years ago, not to mention twenty. Twenty years ago, I used to know which stores on my coast carried anything related to anime. Now, there are more than that carrying anime and related merchandise in a 10 mile radius. Food for thought, you know?

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

And how to explain the non-stop production of CGI "cute animal" movies? Last year we had "On the Farm" (or whatever it was called), "The Wild" (by Disney), "Happy Feet", and this year we have "Surf's Up" (yet another movie with penguins). How many of these movies do we really need?
 
Or do the CG artists want to make animal movies to show off their skills? "Look, animated fur!" "Look, photo-realistic water!", "Look, realistic trees and grass". Who says we need a plot or a storyline? Everyone will be so amazed at the life-life animation that they won't care about the story.

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Back when I was a kid, 'anime' consisted of Tobor, Speed Racer and Johnny Cypher.  Although it wasn't called 'anime' back then.  In fact, I don't think that there was any specific name for the genre, at least in the US.  Perhaps "Japanese animation".

( (I still remember the old elementary school version of the Johnny Cypher theme song......."Johnny Cypher.....wears a diaper..........!"))

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

*How many of these movies do we really need?

*there's at least one more Shrek and Puss in Boots is getting his own feature....

There's a prehistoric monster
that came from outer space,
Created by the Martians
to destroy the human race.
The FBI is helpless.
It's twenty stories tall.
What can we do?
Who can we call?
Tobor,the 8th Man!
Tobor,the 8th Man!
Faster than a rocket!
Quicker than a jet!
He's the mighty robot!
He's the one to get!
Tobor,the 8th Man!
Quick, call Tobor,
the mightiest robot in the land!
-Richard Ranke 1954

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - Or the only reason why ice cream is so popular is because a lot of companies manufacture ice cream.  So -- according to this line of reasoning -- if only more companies would produce brussel sprouts -- THEN brussel sprouts would suddenly drastically increase in popularity over chocolate and ice cream.

I never said it happens overnight, but it is the sort of cycle that you drift into and then it becomes self sustaining. To use your brussel sprout analogy, if they started hyping and pushing brussel sprouts everyday, you can bet they could sell them like chocolate. I mean if they can sell worthless people like Paris Hilton to the public, brussel sprouts are a much easier subject :)

Quote - But even granting all of that -- Disney is a much, much bigger company than either Playboy, Inc. or Larry Flynt's outfit.

Except that disney has not made a hit CG animated movie in decades. The only profit they have made from animation is by releasing Pixar movies and their theme parks. Which is why they recently handed large parts of their animation section to pixar hotshots to rebuild.

Also note i wasn't talking about porn here. Not being family friendly doesn't automatically make something pornographic you know. There are plenty of mature subjects you can tackle, without ever showing a boob or a butt. Look at Miyazaki's amazing animations like Spirited Away or Princess Mononoke or Nausicaa to see brilliant examples. Or Iron giant or Grave of the Fireflies. They are anime, but none of them have any sexual content. Not even a kiss. But they deal with loss and war and love and pain. Subjects which you cant always share with kids, but which even non horny adults can enjoy.

Of course i don't really expect the hollywood which is making this:

(Clicky...)

...to change it's mind, but as long as we have our japanese brethren to produce whatever wonderful (and yes even perverted) stuff they want, we can at least have a wide variety to choose from.

you guys!   You made me try and google some stuff about anime ;)
I found what's written on wikipedia quite interesting.  From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime#Current_reception_in_the_United_States

Current reception in the United States

AnimeNation’s John Oppliger had this to say on the matter:

The support for anime among American anime fans is very strong. The availability of anime in America is truly impressive, especially within the anime fan community. Awareness of Japanese animation in America is at an all time high. However, mainstream acceptance of anime in America lags far behind the advances anime has made in other respects. A close examination of the support for anime on American television may provide a revealing and realistic gauge of the actual penetration of anime into America and American culture. Anime may seem like it's tremendously successful in America because its high profile, but the facts tell another story.

According to AC Nielsen, Pixar's The Incredibles sold 16 million copies on DVD in America last year. Shark Tale sold nearly 10 million copies. Even the DVD release of Bambi sold 6 million copies in 2005. In comparison, all four Inuyasha movies combined have sold just over 1 million copies in the past year and a half. Evidently, the success of anime in America is very relative. American anime fans are very devoted. Through underground means hardcore American fans now have access to brand new Japanese anime before even many Japanese residents do. America's anime fan community is influential because it's affluent, intelligent, and motivated; but it's not very large.[10]

—20px, 20px

Despite assessments like that, and its rare and limited release in American theaters, anime's legitimacy and respect in North America has grown well enough to garner major native artistic awards such as the Academy Award for Best Animated Feature in 2002 for Spirited Away by Hayao Miyazaki. Anime has a dedicated fan following in English speaking countries, particularly active on the internet, and at conventions regularly held throughout the US and UK.

Bck to my own commentary:
It appears that Anime doesn't have enough of a following to support a feature length movie release at regular box office. I'm sure if it did, they would have done it already.  Also, with lack of anime in theaters, of the interest is high, one would think that the DVD would be selling like hotcakes. Looks like they are not. 

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:blink: ... and... just what's wrong with brussel sprouts?  :blink:

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Quote - I never said it happens overnight, but it is the sort of cycle that you drift into and then it becomes self sustaining. To use your brussel sprout analogy, if they started hyping and pushing brussel sprouts everyday, you can bet they could sell them like chocolate. I mean if they can sell worthless people like Paris Hilton to the public, brussel sprouts are a much easier subject :)

That bridge in Brooklyn is a really great deal.....!  It's a steal at the low, low price of $50,000.99!

No amount of advertising will sell grilled, chopped-up earthworms as a worthy high-protein substitute for beef.  It just ain't gonna happen.

As for Paris Hilton -- a certain sector of the public always has an insatiable appetite for watching people self-destruct.  The fascination with Paris Hilton is a phenomenon not too far removed from a crowd of people gathering under someone on top of a skyscraper roof and yelling "jump!  jump!  jump! -- but be sure to set yourself on fire first!!!!!!" Humans can be like that.  Personally, I don't find Paris Hilton to be attractive: even on the purely physical level.  But some people do -- and watching a pretty woman destroy herself is even more fun than watching an al qaeda beheading video on the internet.

Quote - Except that disney has not made a hit CG animated movie in decades. The only profit they have made from animation is by releasing Pixar movies and their theme parks. Which is why they recently handed large parts of their animation section to pixar hotshots to rebuild.

I don't recall Larry Flynt making any hit CG movies, either.  Disney's got other problems beyond just their movie divisions.........between internal company politics and some not-so-family-friendly policies that they've instituted in recent years, they've managed to seriously hurt themselves.  Plus they've made some truly awful movies, to boot -- which hasn't helped matters any.  But they are still known for what they are primarily known for by most of the public.  And partnering with Pixar or not -- Disney is still a much larger company than Playboy.

Quote - Also note i wasn't talking about porn here. Not being family friendly doesn't automatically make something pornographic you know. There are plenty of mature subjects you can tackle, without ever showing a boob or a butt. Look at Miyazaki's amazing animations like Spirited Away or Princess Mononoke or Nausicaa to see brilliant examples. Or Iron giant or Grave of the Fireflies. They are anime, but none of them have any sexual content. Not even a kiss. But they deal with loss and war and love and pain. Subjects which you cant always share with kids, but which even non horny adults can enjoy.

I wasn't impling that you were necessarily talking about porn -- but I was.  And in doing so, I was pointing out some of the reasons as to why 'adult' fare doesn't fare so well at the box office as compared to 'kiddy' fare.

As for adult-themed but non-sexual CG animated features -- while it's true that there is a certain segment of the market to whom such movies appeal, it's also true that this market segment represents a solid minority.  And while it's also true that the anime minority isn't as 'minor' as it was 20-some-odd years ago -- it's still not precisely mainstream in the US.  But who knows?  Maybe anime will become mainstream in another decade or two.  After all -- Japanese steak houses are quite popular.  Even though the food served there isn't authentically Japanese.  So perhaps we'll eventually see movies like The Spirits Within making a megahit.  But those types of movies don't do that now.

Quote - Of course i don't really expect the hollywood which is making this:

(Clicky...)

...to change it's mind, but as long as we have our japanese brethren to produce whatever wonderful (and yes even perverted) stuff they want, we can at least have a wide variety to choose from.

 

Oh, good.  I'll need to be sure to go camp out in line to see this one as soon as it opens.  But in the meantime, I'll keep myself entertained reading tabloid articles about Paris Hilton.

(Yeeech)

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Thanks for the article quote, Connie.  I see that we're thinking alike.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - :blink: ... and... just what's wrong with brussel sprouts?  :blink:

 

Nothing.....I like brussel sprouts OK.  But I wouldn't try convincing the average 5-year-old that the brussel sprouts on their plate are a whole lot better than the ice cream in the freezer.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Saying that CG houses are following a trend by all the 'cute animal' films coming out doesn't really work, either. In live-actionfilm, it's relatively  easy to spot a trend, find a script, get it greenlit, into production, edited and out in the cinemas within a comparatively short space of time - short enough to take advantage of a trend within the cinema-going public. For an animated efautre, whether it be cel- or CG-animation, the lead-in time is so much more, with production timelines of several years, that it's impossible to pick up a trend and knock out a movie in time to take advantage of it. So the current focus on penguin characters in animation, from Madagascar to Happy Feet to Surf's Up are just a zeitgeist of some kind. Either that, or the inter-studio network is so riddled with corporate espionage that everyone is plundering everyone else's ideas during production - which isn't really that likely now, is it? 

jonthecelt

But I wouldn't try convincing the average 5-year-old that the brussel sprouts on their plate are a whole lot better than the ice cream in the freezer.
Now, if you can figure out how to do THAT, you may have just gotten yourself a get rich quick scheme! Well, actually a really solid plan, not just some shady scheme!
The next one would be how to make teenagers do their chores...

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Quote - you guys!   You made me try and google some stuff about anime ;)
I found what's written on wikipedia quite interesting.  From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime#Current_reception_in_the_United_States

Current reception in the United States

AnimeNation’s John Oppliger had this to say on the matter:

......

According to AC Nielsen, Pixar's The Incredibles sold 16 million copies on DVD in America last year. Shark Tale sold nearly 10 million copies. Even the DVD release of Bambi sold 6 million copies in 2005. In comparison, ALL Four Inuyasha movies COMBINED have sold just over 1 million copies in the past year and a half. Evidently, the success of anime in America is very relative. American anime fans are very devoted. Through underground means hardcore American fans now have access to brand new Japanese anime before even many Japanese residents do. America's anime fan community is influential because it's affluent, intelligent, and motivated; but it's not very large.[10]

—20px, 20px

Hmmm, numbers there look a bit Sqewed perhaps....?
Just a thought, but if Bambi sold 6 MILLION in just 2005 and the anime flick took 4 "combined" to just hit a mere 1 million in a year PLUS 6 more months....I think people still like good old fashion cartooning with skilled artists over the chop-sockie cut-n-paste bubble eyed anime.

hmmm, 6 million in just one single year...many many years AFTER its release -or- just a mere 1 million in a year and a half on its first year of release....If you ask me it anime still has a LONG LONG time to prove it can come anywhere near good old American cartooning.

Come back in 20 or 30 years and tell me how the sales hold up, and does anyone even still remember them....can you go downtown and say one of the anime's characters name to the average Joe on the street and do they even know who your talking about....I think Shrek will live long and prosper just as Bambi and Thumper has endured the ages.....

just my take on the so-called "internet poll"
 

....oh, and did that poll that praises anime mention that The Indredibles only came out a couple years ago - and **Already hit 16 Million!??
**hmmm, (four 'combined' equal just 1 million in 1.5 years or  just one equal 16 million in 2 years) I think I'll invest in American CGI over anime any day

Quote - > Quote - :blink: ... and... just what's wrong with brussel sprouts?  :blink:

 

Nothing.....I like brussel sprouts OK.  But I wouldn't try convincing the average 5-year-old that the brussel sprouts on their plate are a whole lot better than the ice cream in the freezer.

 

My son is so spoiled when it comes to eating out.   He loves Lobster, Crab and Steak.  When a friend brought over Filet Mignon for me to broil up, my son, eating his steak, claimed it couldn't be filet because it wasn't wrapped in bacon.  
I blame his grandparents for taking him so many places. :)    Brussel Sprouts he won't eat but broccoli and asparagus he will. 

...... Kendra

There have been virtually all CG films made for adults: SKY CAPTAIN, SIN CITY, and 300.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Wouldn't you classify those moviies more as  computer special effects? They are done with real actors not mesh in front of blue / green screens and scaled sets. Not really in the same class as a Pixar CG film.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - :blink: ... and... just what's wrong with brussel sprouts?  :blink:

 

Nothing.....I like brussel sprouts OK.  But I wouldn't try convincing the average 5-year-old that the brussel sprouts on their plate are a whole lot better than the ice cream in the freezer.

 

My son is so spoiled when it comes to eating out.   He loves Lobster, Crab and Steak.  When a friend brought over Filet Mignon for me to broil up, my son, eating his steak, claimed it couldn't be filet because it wasn't wrapped in bacon.  
I blame his grandparents for taking him so many places. :)    Brussel Sprouts he won't eat but broccoli and asparagus he will. 

 

Ha ha ha.......your son has sophisticated tastes.  I only wanted hamburgers when I was a kid.  I didn't come to value steak more than hamburger until years later. 

Although I'll eat broccoli, asparagus, and brussel sprouts all three - no problem.

If it's food: I tend to like it.  I've never been able to understand children who put up a fuss at mealtime & who don't want to eat.  They used to have to lock up the cabinets to keep me out..........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

You know, there is another reason to make good kids movies. Kids pick up parents reactions to things and have a tendency to follow suit. And if parents don't find the movie, too annoying they let their kids watch it over and over and then there is all the paraphernalia that goes with the kid's movies. How many movies geared for adults sell action figures, lunch boxes, sheets and clothing? And how many people would buy them if they did? So even if the adult's movie and the kid's movie match in the box office, the kid's movie will still make more money.

---

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"How many movies geared for adults sell action figures, lunch boxes, sheets and clothing?"

Startrek, Starwars, Xmen, Most comic book superhero movies. Are they not geared more for the adult?  TV shows/movies Bevis and Butthead, Max Headroom,  Mr Bill, ATHF, which made big headline news not long ago. I'm in a hurry or I could name many more. All with the figures and promotional clothing and nik-naks.

I would argue that Star Trek, Star Wars, X-Men, and other comic book movies are aimed at both kids and adults. IF they were aimed purly at adults, they'd probably have more adult content in them (not necessarily rude stuff, just more complicated plots and mature content).  and while some of the more adult-themed stuff, such as Beavis and Butthead or Max Headroom, DO have figures and toys, I'm not sure you could argue that they sell in anything like the units that the kids' figures go for.

jonthecelt

Now, I would never say they would sell as many items. I was pointing out that they do make these things to sell to adults. But, then again, they do make sure that those othere movies do have enough adult content. Who do you think pays for it. LOL.

As for the Startrek and stuff. Not really kid shows, more teen and up shows. I remember watching the first episodes of Trek and as a kid, was more impressed with the sets and characters and the transporter than some of the story lines. It was when I was a little older that I payed more attention to those story lines and a certain someones over acting.LOL

I went to one of these scifi cons and was amazed at the % of adults young and old compared to the % of kids. I guess we all are kids deep down, if we let ourself be.

Wouldn't you classify those moviies more as computer special effects? They are done with real actors not mesh in front of blue / green screens and scaled sets. Not really in the same class as a Pixar CG film. If you watch all the CG work in something like 300, it's way more than just "computer special effects". They're doing things truly on the scale of Pixar, just utilizing them with real actors.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Quote - You know, there is another reason to make good kids movies. Kids pick up parents reactions to things and have a tendency to follow suit. And if parents don't find the movie, too annoying they let their kids watch it over and over and then there is all the paraphernalia that goes with the kid's movies. How many movies geared for adults sell action figures, lunch boxes, sheets and clothing? And how many people would buy them if they did? So even if the adult's movie and the kid's movie match in the box office, the kid's movie will still make more money.

I remember reading that they were selling rusty horseshoe nails at the screenings of 'The Passion.'
DPH

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I was watching "Tripping the Rift" when it dawned on me.

What about " Tripping the Rift" complete cg. Complete adult. OK, so my box set finally got here. LOL.

"just utilizing them with real actors."

Right, still using real actors. When they start using all mesh then you can compare them to Pixar. Not counting voicing. That's how I see it anyways.