FranOnTheEdge opened this issue on Jun 16, 2007 · 30 posts
FranOnTheEdge posted Sat, 16 June 2007 at 9:39 AM
a) is that a lot? and
b) is there a simple way to reduce the polys?
Measure
your mind's height
by the shade it casts.
Robert Browning (Paracelsus)
brycetech posted Sat, 16 June 2007 at 9:59 AM
depending on the detail you want, you may have to have the large poly count BUT you can change the poly count of the terrains you are using.
select the terrain
go to the terrain editor
click the grid and lower the resolution
that effectively lowers the resolution of the terrain.
but, keep in mind..lower poly count = lower detail.
luck
BT
dvlenk6 posted Sat, 16 June 2007 at 11:23 AM
Can you manage to get the same kind of errosion w/ using less number of terrains?
i.e. One big terrain one for the whole door area, instead of a couple smaller terrains. By 'bigger' and 'smaller', I mean scale, not resolution.
Friends don't let friends use booleans.
Death_at_Midnight posted Sat, 16 June 2007 at 1:30 PM
I usually just use rocks, but the detail for upclose camera probably wouldn't be there. AgentSmith has been using other programs to lower the poly count on exported objects. Maybe export the object, reduce the poly, then import back into Bryce.
electroglyph posted Sat, 16 June 2007 at 5:09 PM
Big fancy programs like Maya can reduce polys. Once you make a terrain and collapse the mesh you are stuck with the polys you have. I'm assuming you have bryce 6. You have to control the mesh resolution before you boolean.
There is a wireframe resolution button on the right side of the Bryce desktop. You have three settings, Motion, static, and selected. Click on selected and you will see numbers 8, 16, 32, 64, 128. The lower the number the less polys in the terrain. Make a version and save then start by setting selected resolution at 8. Group and collapse and look at the mesh. If it is too smooth go back to the saved version crank the resolution up to 16 and try again.
skiwillgee posted Sat, 16 June 2007 at 7:34 PM
Another idea , although I've never tried it, create a terrain large enough to rough up the edges of entire doorway; then, use brush in terrain editor to brush out the uneeded part for boolean (terrain is now "U" shaped. This should lower count, I think.
Quest posted Sat, 16 June 2007 at 9:54 PM
Yes as Electroglyph suggests, the more sophisticated programs do allow the artist to reduce polys even as you watch. Perhaps then it is time that the newer, upcoming updates of Bryce take this into consideration and find at least a plug-in to fill the function if at present one doesn’t exist.
electroglyph posted Sun, 17 June 2007 at 11:57 AM
You should go to http://www.rodluc.com/ The art of Luca Rodolfi. Visit his freestuff, scroll down and download the abby ruin. Download the obj version and load it with textures. Copy and paste a version with the bryce default gray texture applied and look at the two side by side.
Basically, Modeling only buys you something in a scene if you can get the camera in a position where you can see the edges. Everything else in a ruin can be done by textures or making sure edges don't parallel. Abby Ruin is an excellent example of putting detail only where it's needed.
FranOnTheEdge posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 2:52 PM
Um.....
Well I've downloaded the Abbey Ruin...
Is it supposed to be viewed from just one particular... direction or something? Or is it only for use in ... 3dsMax... or Maya?
Cos all I see in Bryce is a mess, looks like the model exploded or something, bits everywhere..., plus some of the walls look twisted, or lacking a hard edge... or 6.
I dunno, something's not right.
Measure
your mind's height
by the shade it casts.
Robert Browning (Paracelsus)
FranOnTheEdge posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 3:03 PM
Quote - Another idea , although I've never tried it, create a terrain large enough to rough up the edges of entire doorway; then, use brush in terrain editor to brush out the uneeded part for boolean (terrain is now "U" shaped. This should lower count, I think.
Sounds like a sensible idea, I'll look into this one.
I thought I might have to start all over again, but was hoping someone knew about the poly reducing thing, so I wouldn't have to... oh well... (shrug)
"... Vizzini said, go back to the beginning, so..."
Measure
your mind's height
by the shade it casts.
Robert Browning (Paracelsus)
dvlenk6 posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 4:10 PM
That Abbey Ruin model is 317,455 polygons...And they are almost all triangles.
I guess I have different idea about what 'Low Poly" means.
~ backs out of thread cautiously ~
Friends don't let friends use booleans.
electroglyph posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 7:03 PM
I'm sorry but I've also done a little experimenting with just one shape. Reducing the wireframe cuts the size but not that much. Good old terrain exporter seems to be the way to go. Let me demo.
I created a bryce cube and applied Brick wall 2b texture to it.
I rendered an image then used paintshiop to create a bumpmap.
electroglyph posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 7:04 PM
electroglyph posted Tue, 19 June 2007 at 7:17 PM
I also tried exporting the mask version on the left in the same manner. I thought the mesh would be smaller without all the pocks in the bricks or the mortar grooves. I was suprised to find that the export was the same 583753 polys.
I used the export menu from the terrain editor for the mask image and accepted the default resolution when the exporter popped up. This produced a 3ds file with 7303 polys.
I guess the lesson is export your terrains first then use mesh objects to boolean.
FranOnTheEdge posted Wed, 20 June 2007 at 2:10 PM
**electroglyph,**Don't apologise, any information is good. From the looks of it, yours is very good.
I've used the terrain exporter and photoshop - only twice, and I'm trying desperately to remember what it was I did with it... I think I made a material, exported it to photoshop (via the terrain editor), added some layers to the image, and re-imported it to the terrain editor... I think. But the procedure of exporting & importing is vague in my memory now, and I can't remember the 2nd thing I did in it...
I really do need to do more with it, learn more about what you can achieve in the terrain editor, I'm sure there's a lot of scope in there.
Measure
your mind's height
by the shade it casts.
Robert Browning (Paracelsus)
FranOnTheEdge posted Wed, 20 June 2007 at 2:30 PM
By the way:- "I used the export menu from the terrain editor for the mask image and accepted the default resolution when the exporter popped up. This produced a 3ds file with 7303 polys."
Why 3ds?
None of my progs use it although Bryce is supposed to export it, but not very well.
Measure
your mind's height
by the shade it casts.
Robert Browning (Paracelsus)
electroglyph posted Wed, 20 June 2007 at 7:30 PM
It didn't have to be 3ds. I just like them because:
3ds doesn't parametric map like obj files but it takes procedural textures in cubic, object top, etc. just the same.
3ds files are generally 1/3 the size of the same obj files.
electroglyph posted Wed, 20 June 2007 at 7:38 PM
Before you go too far let me stop you. I found out that exported terrains don't have bottoms and exported lattices are just double terrains not closed objects. Any terrain object you export from Bryce to 3ds, dxf, obj format winds up being an open object. Bryce won't let you boolean with open objects. (Rhino you can combine open and closed, but its $1000).
electroglyph posted Wed, 20 June 2007 at 7:52 PM
I pasted the original terrain and cube again. and moved them to the left
I went back into the wireframe resolution and set it to 8.
I grouped and combined, exported, and imported again.
Notice the new object is only 62 polys but the hole is rounded off and much of the detail is gone.
ysvry posted Wed, 20 June 2007 at 9:13 PM
blender has poly reducing so import it there reduce the polysand export, u know its free.
Incarnadine posted Thu, 21 June 2007 at 8:30 PM
Hi Fran - this is a feature in Cinema (poly reduction).
Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!
FranOnTheEdge posted Sat, 23 June 2007 at 5:29 AM
Electroglyph,
Ah, interesting, I've copied that, I'll take a look at that. Thanks.
Incarnadine,
In Cinema is it? (suddenly perking up) Hmmm, I must look at that too... ta.
ysvry,
Hmmm, blender too eh, ta.
Measure
your mind's height
by the shade it casts.
Robert Browning (Paracelsus)
pearce posted Mon, 25 June 2007 at 6:50 PM
Not many people seem to know that Metasequoia LE (free, no strings, small fast download) has good, intelligent poly reduction, (also smoothing and rounding if you want to go the other way towards mega-poly counts). It imports/exports COB format, as does Bryce, and you can do UV mapping in it. More people should use that app.
dvlenk6 posted Mon, 25 June 2007 at 7:03 PM
Attached Link: MetaSequoia LE
In case anybody wants a link. ;)Friends don't let friends use booleans.
Rayraz posted Mon, 25 June 2007 at 7:26 PM
Am i kind of missing the problem? I thought bryce effortlessly handles hundreds of millions of polygons? I mean, i've used hundreds of millions of polygons before, and apart from large file sizes (which shouldnt be a prob with todays harddisk sizes) there didnt seem to be any problems? Even with just 512mb of ram!
I think its unneccesary work to work with imagemaps and god knows other tricks to reduce polycounts if booleaning terrains works just fine... To reduce unneccesary strain just reduce the terrains resolution to the amount of detail needed. Obviously there's no point in using a 4096x4096 terrain on an object thats gunna take up 25x25 pixels...
I'd say make things high-res, save them in seperate scenes. Use families to allow for easy selecting of sets of terrains. W
hen ur deciding on final composition, import the objects one by one arrange the objects location and import the next object.
If at some point during the importing process you get the feeling that you really should get to reducing poly-count strain on your system, you can start reducing terrain resolutions as u see fit.
Objects in the distance need less detail then object in the front. objects that take up large screen areas need more detail then objects that take up little screen area.
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FranOnTheEdge posted Sat, 30 June 2007 at 7:51 PM
No, you didn't miss the problem, I wasn't sure if there was a problem, which is why I asked if that number of polys was high - not being sure what Bryce 6 thinks is high, and knowing I'd planned to do a lot more eating away at the model with terrains, if it wasn't too high a poly count.
There's only this one ruin model - at the moment - so not something I can save parts of - especially as it's a round tower.
But if this technique worked, and I could produce a decent looking model this way - i.e. decayed and crumbling enough - then I'd probably want to do a few models in the same way, so then save and import etc.
I'd been collapsing after each terrain booleaned away part of the ruin, making for a less complex model, but I may stop that, and just group them all, since once collapsed you can't more the terrain any more....
I may also decide to texture the terrain before booleaning, since then you leave the texture behind on the eaten away portion of the ruin.... Hmmm...
Measure
your mind's height
by the shade it casts.
Robert Browning (Paracelsus)
ysvry posted Sat, 30 June 2007 at 10:27 PM
" once collapsed you can't more the terrain any more...." good to know that fran,
Well i think reducing poly count is the way to go as long as it doesnt show, KEEP IT SIMPLE, thats my motto. Benefit is also faster rendering.
Rayraz posted Sun, 01 July 2007 at 5:30 PM
As far as i know bryce's architecture was traditionally based on parametric geometry, which probably means it deals with terrains much differently then it would with a pure 4-million poly imported mesh. At least i've never heard of someone importing a mesh with hundreds of millions of polygons in bryce yet i have heard of people using hundreds of terrains and/or lattices, which should amount to hundreds of millions of poly's.
So though i havent tested this, my suspicion is that, unless bryce's internal architecture has been built specifically to cope with huge amounts of polygons, a collapsed mesh (which is essentially become a poly-mesh) might actually be less economic then an un-collapsed mesh.
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FranOnTheEdge posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 2:32 PM
Yeah, so yet another reason not to collapse the mesh. Thanks Rayraz.
Measure
your mind's height
by the shade it casts.
Robert Browning (Paracelsus)
Rayraz posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 5:40 PM
no prob :-)
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