Is it just me, or is the Free Stuff area out of control?

It seems to me with the growing popularity of CGShare, a lot of people are rendering pictures of props, pasting them to planes and uploading. That these items are frequently uploaded as "Poser ready props" seems misleading to me as the assumption is that they are actually meshes, not pictures. Further, where are they getting these props that they render? I'm starting to get a strong sense of deja vu when I see the "new" version.

I don't like to complain about free stuff, being respectful of the time, effort and generosity of the contributor... But, I'm starting to lose a sense that any time, effort or generosity is being expended here. And I don't much appreciate the attempt to get me to generate views for something that the contributor really didn't put much effort into creating.

Hmm. Calls for a new category, "billboards". Billboards are quite useful for midrange and background objects, I've used them on a regular basis when I still rendered in Poser.
But they're definitely not 3D objects.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery My freestuff

svdl...I quite agree as I do Free Stuff every day but don't use Poser myself. I as well will put forward that suggestion. There have been a couple of new catagories that have been suggested that might help in this regard. That's about the only thing these objects are good for[mid distance clutter] but as Billboards a lot more folks would know what they are and be able to use them in other apps.

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

They should be going under 2D>original clipart or 2D>Tubes and nozzles.

If you spot one in Poser please let me know and I'll move it.

Cheers.

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

perhaps the sharecg users get a small amount of cash every time members here go to one of their pages, even if said persons don't click on any of the ads. hence there would a strong incentive to dump sharecg quickies in freestuff, or even the same quickie with minor changes. not that I'm complaining about the sharecg freestuff providers, mind you. however, it's a big help if it's truthfully labelled a 2d item, as it allows me to ignore it and look for actual 3d items.

I don't want to complain about freebies... but I can't help but feel that the Free Stuff section is being abused in order to generate Share CG hits. If I wanted to be really nasty about it, I'd call it spam.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing an upload cap on freebies. It would not hurt those that are creating "legitimate" freebies, and it might get the others to at least bundle some of their similar items into zip files.

Read up on how to make money at the site. I have also seen the same thing posted again. So are reposting the samething again to bump there download to the top of the freestuff page so it is seen more and also clicked on more.

How do I earn the most money with my ShareCG uploads?

Here are some tips that seem to help our most succesful uploaders:

Link to your uploads from other websites, blogs, forums, your website, or wherever.
Make them great. The highest rated uploads get the most views.
Upload stuff that lots of people want.
Upload lots of stuff.
Write clear descriptions, incorporating all keywords associated with your upload that someone might search for.
Categorize correctly.
Don't post something that is inappropriate, infringes copyright, or is spam. This could lead to a suspension of your account.

More at http://www.sharecg.com/learn_more.php?PSID=2900e0e633c806dd27db170e1a460570

Quote - So are reposting the samething again to bump there download to the top of the freestuff page so it is seen more and also clicked on more.

If you are seeing reposts of the identical item for the identical programs posted here at Rendo freestuff, let me know via IM/Sitemail and I'll take care of that.

I do know that some freestuff providers post identical items, but for different programs..like one for Poser, and one for Bryce in their respective formats. If you are seeing something different, let me know ;)

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Yes it maybe that I see some of the same things and it is the same but one is for bryce and then your see the same thing again and it is for Vue, Poser, Daz etc.

Karen--

The item I suspect is a recent plant posting, it in the Poser -> Poser Ready Props -> Backgrounds and Environments category. I'm sorry, but since I suspect a shareCG submission, I'm just not willing to generate a view just to investigate.

It was in fact this package that generated my question in the Copyright forum and I gotta say, I'm still reeling from that answer.

Quote - I don't want to complain about freebies... but I can't help but feel that the Free Stuff section is being abused in order to generate Share CG hits. If I wanted to be really nasty about it, I'd call it spam.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing an upload cap on freebies. It would not hurt those that are creating "legitimate" freebies, and it might get the others to at least bundle some of their similar items into zip files.

I have to agree, reluctantly, with Tammarion's suggestion of a cap. It is spam. And it seems as if it would be detrimental to the marketplace.

Where does it stop? If I see a tree prop, for instance, in the marketplace that would be perfect in the background of an image I'm working on, instead of buying the prop, can I go to the free stuff forum and request someone render it for me in a format that preserves the alpha channel? What if I see a new hairstyle-- could you render that for me with no figure and a plane down the middle so I just get a frontal shot? Thanks, I'll composite it into my image...

I can't say that everything posted by these individuals are billboards, not meshes, but having been burned once, I'm just not willing to "reward" them with a hit to investigate. I wil send you the one I know is not a mesh.

kalonart.com

I'd submit the following.

1: Not a single one of the freestuff providers had to upload anything for some to fill their greedy little runtimes with in the first place.

2: No one is forcing anyone else to come to Renderosity in the first place, let along, go into the freestuff area. So if someone does'nt like whats in it, don't go there.

3: It's about as egotistical and arrogant as one can get, to question the generosity , and effort of anyone that is giving something away to everyone for free. Sort of like the person who's starving who goes to the soup kitchen to keep from starving to death, and then gripes because the soup kitchen didn't feed them cordon bleu.

Quote -
Yeah, we can't have any freestuff items daring to compete with similiar items found in the storefront can we. After all God forbid someone that is GENEROUS enough to be giving their work away for free, make a little pocket change for their efforts.

That is not what this is about.

I would love for actual creators to be able to upload as many items as they wish. That they earn a little money from it is GREAT! If I ever create anything again, I'll probably use ShareCG.

But if your version of "creation" is load someone else's work, click render. I've got an issue with that.

So, consider this, you've spent weeks creating a mesh. You upload it to free stuff -- here, or somewhere else. You even put it on ShareCG. No problem.

Someone else comes along, pops your mesh into Poser, Vue, Bryce (whatever), renders, then uploads their billboard to ShareCG. You still have no problem with this?

kalonart.com

No because my liscence gives the end user certain rights, one of wich is the right to do whatever they want with their renders.

Wich is pretty standard in poserdom.

Saying that is wrong, is like saying it's wrong if someone makes a poster of a N.V.I.T.W.S. and then turns around and sells that poster.

With that I've said my piece on this subject for now. (Got to go for now).

Quote - No because my liscence gives the end user certain rights, one of wich is the right to do whatever they want with their renders.

Wich is pretty standard in poserdom.

Saying that is wrong, is like saying it's wrong if someone makes a poster of a N.V.I.T.W.S. and then turns around and sells that poster.

With that I've said my piece on this subject for now. (Got to go for now).

Sorry you had to run...

But I disagree. No one upload NVITWS, no one sells them-- because by their very nature they are a composition.

Some effort at creation took place. It is now their work, good, bad or indifferent.

To just render a prop as a billboard, takes no creation. To upload it to a freestuff area is to provide it as a resource for other people using 3D applications. A resource that is now in direct competition with the original prop-- be it commercial or free.

As for licensing... I've seen any number of them that forbid you to use their item in a manner that lets someon extract your product from the resulting render. It used to be just textures, but apparently needs to include meshes as well.

kalonart.com

Ok I'm the debates over. I'm back.

Kalon I obviously don't understand what your position is then. It seems to me that you are saying that somehow people are extracting the original mesh from a render and then redistributing that mesh?

Or are you saying that people are taking a mesh, making a render and then redistributing the render.

If its the latter, and is wrong as you are saying, then not only does this entire site, but almost every other poser artist site out there has a real real big problem.

Because everytime one of us looks at the gallery, we are downloading every render we look at onto our machine. And thus technically that render is being redistributed to us.

For free by the way.

I believe the point is, there has recently been a rash of uploads of the same freebie(s) with only slight variations between the uploads. If it were something being sold in the Marketplace, the merchant would have bundled it into a single package (ie. a texture package for a clothing item). When I'm browsing the Marketplace, I see one product comprising all the variations the merchant is offering. I don't have to view (and potentially purchase) a dozen separate product entries that are essentially the same thing.

Don't get me wrong - I'm grateful for the content freebie-makers provide. It's the method of delivery I take issue with. When I go into the Free Stuff section, I'd rather not see an entire screen-full of variations of one provider's product. They are drowning out the other providers - and that isn't right either.

I just dont see how it could be drowning out another providers content...

If you have one provider who has a whole page of say.. different models, that takes up the whole page.. and then you have another provider who has a whole page of say..textures of various colors..that also will take up the whole page....

By all rights, the model provider should have to bundle all his/her models together just as the texture provider would...to keep from taking over the whole page..

We have a huge amount of freestuff going up everyday...no matter who has items on the front page, nor how many, it will move off by the following day. ;)

I myself have bundled a few, but the majority I do not...I usually make a texture or whatever, upload it, and then get on with my day..I dont have the time to sit all day and create a whole set...if I did, and they all went together for all intents and purposes, I might consider bundling them..but I have no issue with those who dont...

As long as providers are not uploading the exact same item to bump it to the top, I have no problems

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Maybe the site can keep a log of who and what gets uploaded and how many are uploaded.
Then that could help out in finding if they are doing the same thing again. Some many take away there uploads and then just upload them again to push them to the top so more see them and click on them. I have seen this a couple times but seems like now after the CGShare site stared being used your seeing this happening more.
I can see upload taken away and put back up if it is to change the download site but can't you just edit your upload to change the download link.

We had a problem with freestuff providers abusing the system this way a couple of years ago but to my knowledge it hasn't happened since.

I personally approve about 95% of the Poser uploads and I have a rather extraordinary memory, so I generally spot stuff like this very quickly.

Also, we do limit releases per day by the same provider (5 max per day.)

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

I haven't noticed anyone doing this Hewee...Is there anything specific you have seen? Shoot me an IM if you have and I'll check it out.

As for keeping logs...if you are talking about manually checking those logs.....yuck :tt2:

Maybe somewhere down the line we might be able to impliment something like that automatically, but it would, Im sure..be on the low end of the 'to do' list if at all..

Yes, you can edit the link..but I would hope providers wouldn't do something like that :(

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Quote - Ok I'm the debates over. I'm back.

Kalon I obviously don't understand what your position is then. It seems to me that you are saying that somehow people are extracting the original mesh from a render and then redistributing that mesh?

Or are you saying that people are taking a mesh, making a render and then redistributing the render.

If its the latter, and is wrong as you are saying, then not only does this entire site, but almost every other poser artist site out there has a real real big problem.

Because everytime one of us looks at the gallery, we are downloading every render we look at onto our machine. And thus technically that render is being redistributed to us.

For free by the way.

Sorry about the delayed response, storms knocked out my electricity....

Yes, I am saying the latter. And all the examples you keep pitching back to me have one major, and I do mean major difference-- some creative work has been done to them. That is what supposed to happen. It becomes part of a composition of the artist's work. But to take an item, render it with neutral lighting in issolation to provide an artists resource of something you did not create is wrong. And it may suit the letter of the law, but not the spirit.

And before you start comparing apples and oranges again, take a look at the EULA of X-frog products. They specialize in creating billboards of meshes that they own and created. Their EULA is rather strict, because they recognize that this is a very dangerous copyright area.

And it is a competitive product. Using the actual mesh will cast the correct shadows, allow better interaction with other components in your image and not limit the angle in which the item can be shown. However, on the other hand, using a billboard is light on system resources and will allow you to use twenty trees, versus one actual mesh tree.

If you are arguing that the tools are available to extract an item from any composition and use it in your work ... you're right. But that doesn't make doing so right. And if you are using that as justification, then when I shop in the marketplace, I should just download the promotional image, fire up photoshop and extract the item that caught my attention. All the money I could have saved if I had only known... :rolleyes:

I'm not saying that billboards are a bad thing. If you photograph a plant, create a mask and slap it on a plane, I have no problem with you uploading 40 billboards a day. If you create a mesh, render it in isolation and upload 40 billboards a day, no problem. But if you are taking someone elses mesh, rendering it in isolation and uploading as an artist resource you created that's highly problematic.

kalonart.com

Quote - I haven't noticed anyone doing this Hewee...Is there anything specific you have seen? Shoot me an IM if you have and I'll check it out.

As for keeping logs...if you are talking about manually checking those logs.....yuck :tt2:

Maybe somewhere down the line we might be able to impliment something like that automatically, but it would, Im sure..be on the low end of the 'to do' list if at all..

Yes, you can edit the link..but I would hope providers wouldn't do something like that :(

Boy that would be hard because your have to go back tru the freestuff and look and you know how much time that would take. Plus if uploads were taken down from this site and later uploaded to bump them to the top your still only see the one copy posted here.

Oh I see what you are getting at Kalon.

They aren't taking the actual .obj mesh like you find in the geometries folders.... and then rendering it and pasting it onto something else.

They're just cutting the final rendered mesh out of something then pasting it onto something else.

Like taking the alien in my gallery, and then cutting it out from the background and pasting it onto something else. Then redistributing it.

Right?

I believe he's talking about people making "tubes" (backgroundless images) out of ready made props. Basically opening Poser or Daz}|Studio, loading up a prop of a tree or a rock or a chair etc, and then redering it and saving it as a .png with a transparent alpha channel so that the image can be post worked into any image.

He's saying that allowing people to upload such items here is taking away sales from merchants selling those particular items. Basically why would someone buy the mesh when they can get their hands on a rendered image and then just work it into their image in post work. Essentially why spend $5.00 on a lounge chair when you can get a picture of the same one that you can use in your post work, for free.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

It's a good point that the poster is making, there's shed loads of them been added lately from the same person who incidentally doesn't have any info about themselves on their homepage here!!
That said, billboards are only any real use in medium to far distance, I use them a lot in Vue but for near camera stuff you need the full model!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

It does seem to be just a few people who are doing almost a page of uploads on the one day which means that other people are rapidly (or more rapidly than usual) getting lost way back in the pages. Maybe you should have a daily limit per person?

Bea, we do, as stated in my last post.

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

From what I'm seeing in the last week or 2, some peeps are just doing very quick renders, offering them as backgrounds because they get some kind of monetory award from somewhere, that's my understanding anyway!
It's clearly undervaluing the meaning of the free stuff section IMO!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Quote - Bea, we do, as stated in my last post.

then how come one person has 27 uploads dated the 30th of June 13 on the 29th and more going back every day?

You'd have to address your question to the 2D mod - I only can speak for Poser.

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

So what you are saying is that you mods don't talk to each other and provide guidelines to cover all your areas? It seems a little bit strange to me. After all I would assume that you would all have the same nudity policies? So why not the same upload policies? Particularly as all the freeloads show in the same area. I don't think most people go into only look at one area unless they are doing a search for something in particular.

Mods cover their own areas. It's not appropriate for me to comment on 2D stuff.

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

but surely it is appropriate for you to contact them and at least point them in this direction? I say this because there are more than me asking the same question ")

I stopped getting ebots on this thread...

Quote - Oh I see what you are getting at Kalon.

They aren't taking the actual .obj mesh like you find in the geometries folders.... and then rendering it and pasting it onto something else.

They're just cutting the final rendered mesh out of something then pasting it onto something else.

Like taking the alien in my gallery, and then cutting it out from the background and pasting it onto something else. Then redistributing it.

Right?

@ Lord_Syphex

Frankly, I really don't know how they're doing it. Some of the items do look like they were cut from photographs or completed images, some may be actual renders (of a mesh they had in their possession). The speed and sheer volume of their offerings might indicate the former.

@ Acadia

Quote - I believe he's talking about people making "tubes" (backgroundless images) out of ready made props. Basically opening Poser or Daz}|Studio, loading up a prop of a tree or a rock or a chair etc, and then redering it and saving it as a .png with a transparent alpha channel so that the image can be post worked into any image.

He's saying that allowing people to upload such items here is taking away sales from merchants selling those particular items. Basically why would someone buy the mesh when they can get their hands on a rendered image and then just work it into their image in post work. Essentially why spend $5.00 on a lounge chair when you can get a picture of the same one that you can use in your post work, for free.

Yes, but they've gone one better, they place the .png on a plane prop, then categorize it as a poser ready prop. The unsuspecting user could believe they're downloading a mesh of the tree, rock whatever, when really all they're downloading is a png pasted to a square.-- Yeah, these billboards are only really good for distance shots.

If I need a tree to put in the background of my render and I'm debating buying Joe Bob's Fantastic Oak Tree -- price $5.00 and then I happen to visit free stuff and see Joe Bob's Fantasic Oak Tree -- price free.... ?

Oh, and I'm a she

kalonart.com

*The unsuspecting user could believe they're downloading a mesh of the tree,
*That is nor strictly true. Anyone looking for a mesh objrct will look properly in that sub catagory[Poser>Mesh Objects] which is what I do when searching for a mesh in Poser that I can't find elsewhere. As a Free Stuff Mod I often in fact have re labelled items listed as Mesh Objects, to Poser Props when I look into the dl and see no mesh and a pz3 file and a .png. I agree they should properly be called Billboards but we don't have a catagory within Poser for that at the present. I'm not sure what the problem is really as it's simply a free dl, and a disappointment but really no loss as it is a free item. You don't want it, delete it from your system as I do.

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

The problem isn't that it's free stuff, or even incorrectly-labelled free stuff. It's that it is being generated to create Share CG hits, and nothing more. The intent rather than the content. And the effect the trend is having on the legitimate freebie content creators. Check the threads in the forums at some of the other sites. It sounds as though some content creators are already questioning whether they should bother uploading here.

I'd say the game has changed, and Rendo needs to revisit their rules.

And I think you should have the same rules for all your free sections. If the Poser section only allows a maximum of 5 uploads a day then all the others should too.

Quote - The problem isn't that it's free stuff, or even incorrectly-labelled free stuff. It's that it is being generated to create Share CG hits, and nothing more. The intent rather than the content. And the effect the trend is having on the legitimate freebie content creators. Check the threads in the forums at some of the other sites. It sounds as though some content creators are already questioning whether they should bother uploading here.

I'd say the game has changed, and Rendo needs to revisit their rules.

I see the same thing. They are after Share CG hits. Go to there site and do a search. Or look under plugins. I seen it filled with just background images like your see here now in the freestuff. So you tell me what type of plug-in a background image is? You sure don't see background images listed other places under plug-ins.

It is Share CG hits they are after. It it like I can just upload all images I make to there site and why not make one a day so I can upload it the Share and then here so I get hits every day.

I know it is still a free thing so is in the freestuff.

But I know sites don't like spammers and I don't think this site lets spammers post but when your just uploading so you can get Share CG hits and that is so you can make money is that not like spamming.

Quote - And I think you should have the same rules for all your free sections. If the Poser section only allows a maximum of 5 uploads a day then all the others should too.

Personally I think the limit should be an absolute cap for the user, regardless of which category they post in. And ideally on a 24-hour timer rather than a daily limit. Otherwise you'll have someone posting their cap at 11:59 for today, then waiting a minute or two to upload their cap for the next day.

I agree :) :)

"...then not only does this entire site, but almost every other poser artist site out there has a real real big problem. "

And that very problem is that this and almost (?) every other Poser site out there has become a parody of itself.
These arguments, complaints and discussions get more and more bizarre with every passing month.

I hate to point this out but there has been an individual who has been posting to the Poser free stuff more than five a day ... so saying you have a limit is BULL!

**
There seriously needs to be a cap on this.

Karen....

could you please ask the mod of the 2D free stuff to stop in here and let us know if this "no cap" is going to continue? 21 new uploads by the same person today alone.**

We're discussing this now gang..hold tight ;)

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

I hate to point this out but there has been an individual who has been posting to the Poser free stuff more than five a day ... so saying you have a limit is BULL!

D.A.D.:

Just because some days I lose count doesn't mean there isn't a limit ;o)
But we'll request some kind of enhancement so that the system will prevent this happening.

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

I have been noticing some kind of change in the free area, but I've not been able to put my finger on it until this thread. There does seem to be a huge increase in the number of "tube" type images and "poser ready props/backgrounds" being uploaded. It's become difficult to wade through if you are looking for real props for poser, bryce, vue or just genearl .obj type files.

Before someone tells me to view according to program IE: Poser, I'll say now that I don't view free stuff according to "program" because many items can be used across programs if converted and filtering by program will cause me to miss out on a number of otherwise very good and useful freebies.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Thanks Jumpy and Karen. Will go back to being patient.

We host our free stuff over on ShareCG after moving our stuff from another server, because of people telling us that they were having trouble downloading what we had available.

With that said, we do have to agree with the discussions going on here in this thread. We find it difficult at times to look for legitimate products when having to wade through postings of "plants". However I don't think setting a freestuff cap is really the answer, but the suggestion of maybe adding a "billboard" catagory in place that is meant for non-rendered products is an interesting idea.

But again, having people place them into the 2D catagory, instead of Poser Ready Props would also suffice. Just our thoughts.

================================
"Discover your dreams ... create them!"

**liquidanime

But this still doesn't address the problem of having all the New Free Stuff page being similar items by the same uploader the way a 5 images per 24 period[24 hrs from when you uploaded] would. At very most you would have, depending on how many thumbnails you set in you prefs, 5 items in a row or on a page by the same person and there would be some variety.**

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

I truly admire people who take the time and effort to produce free stuff for us all. But as has been said just lately its getting too much of the same stuff from the same people so other people aren't getting the chance to showcase their freestuff as much as they should be able to. I know things move off the front page but normally it doesn't happen as quickly as it is happening now.

Wait a minute the complaint supposedly was that someone was making tubes.

Oh I see, what they were doing is legal.

So now the complaint is, there's too much freestuff, in the freestuff area.

Question, how many of ya's making this complaint are merchants here?
:lol:

**I'm a vendor, but my making a statement here has nothing whatsoever to do with my status as a vendor. I make characters, not tubes or backgrounds.

And the complaint is not that there is too much freestuff in the free stuff area. It's that it's being flooded (20 or more in one day) by the same type item by the same person and other items are getting knocked way back. Karen stated that there is a cap on the Poser items. People here are asking why this can't be done for 2D items as well. There's a limit on how many products are released each day in the MarketPlace. Why can't the Free Stuff have a limit as well?**

It isn't just the fact that a person makes some Money off of stuff that is a waste of space but on looking in the free area I find 3 pages of stuff all from the same person. Instead of putting these in Background "Packs" they put each and EVERY one of them in a different upload.. this serves NO function other than to make money and USE people for their own gain.. If they made art and sold the art then that would be one thing but to sidestep the limits put on picture uploads put in place for a reason and just upload countless garbage of seemingly useless types under the guise of a background is kind of ridiculous... Those are NOT backgrounds as anyone of any talent can tell.. They are one thing pasted to another and CALLED a background... RUBBISH!! I don't want to go through 5 pages of crap to find one or two usefull objects and the idea that everyone should put up with it because we "Don't HAVE to go to the free section" is just verbal hogwash... I am NOT going to quit looking for legitimate useful objects just because some person that wants to "USE" everyone thinks I should... I say that if they DON"T fix the problem that we BOYCOTT anything that appears to be of this catagory and the USERS can just do without the money they want us to help them make for trash...

"I*nstead of putting these in Background "Packs" they put each and EVERY one of them in a different upload.this serves NO function other than to make money and USE people for their own gain"
*Well i beg to differ. As a mod who DLs and checks a lot of these,even zipped or RARed up they would make very large files and that would put them out of reach of the very people free stuff is most valuable to, poor folks who can't afford to buy stuff [I'm one] and only have a dial up connection[well I do have DSL].

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

I wouldn't call the providers items trash just because you dont like what the items are..and I dont know anyone on this site that doesn't like to make money..no matter how small of an amount it is..so saying members are being 'used' is totally unfair.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

It's a difficult one, isn't it? There is, very understandably, a reluctance to criticise anything provided for free. And after all, what I might consider to be junk might be extremely useful to someone else. Just as we all have opinions about what is good art, so we all have opinions about what is good free stuff. I certainly don't have a problem with anyone making a few pennies out of their free uploads.

Having said all that.... like all good things, it can be abused. I've found myself growing increasingly irritated with the person we are mostly talking about, precisely because there is so much of it and it gets in the way of material from others. The ideal would be the ability for each member to maintain a list of people and/or categories of stuff they didn't want to see, but the programming effort involved might be considerable. Then anyone could upload as much as they liked, but I wouldn't ever see it if I didn't want to.

The balance for rendo is not to discourage free stuff providers (free stuff is important to this site, I think) while at the same time not allowing some providers to alienate others. I'm not a merchant BTW, but I have uploaded some free stuff. If that balance is not maintained other free stuff providers might decide not to upload their free items here, on the grounds that those items will a) vanish from the front page very quickly and b) the number of members scanning the free stuff will diminsh as its usefulness is reduced. If that happened, it would defeat the whole point of a free stuff area.

Steve

I'll add my own 2 pence here. I visit freestuff most days, and occasionally I contribute to it. Like Acadia I view all categories, since there's always a possibility that something in the 2D or 3D models categories will prove useful in Poser. I have no problem with folks trying to make money out of their freebies. There is some excellent stuff at ShareCG; I've noticed that some vendors have switched their stores to ShareCG freebies, presumably because they think they can make more money that way. Whether I'm being "used" or not is irrelevant to me. If I can get something I want, for free, then any complaint about how it's presented is carping. What I do have a problem with is the amount of time it takes to search through the day's submissions now. Next time I go on holiday, I am going to have to skip a lot of potentially worthwhile downloads because I simply won't have time to scan through a week's or a fortnight's uploads. The solution is to put more power in the hands of the fresstuff visitors, not to penalise the contributors. I would prefer a more sophisticated filtering system. At present we can look at all freebies, or some sub-category of them. If I could select from a list, choosing the categories I wanted to see and the ones I didn't, that would help a lot. The ability to ignore particular contributors would be welcome, but I believe technically more difficult, so I won't hold out much hope for that. ;) -- Edited to add: cross-posted with spedler... And evidently in agreement. :)

Quote - **I'm a vendor, but my making a statement here has nothing whatsoever to do with my status as a vendor. I make characters, not tubes or backgrounds.

And the complaint is not that there is too much freestuff in the free stuff area. It's that it's being flooded (20 or more in one day) by the same type item by the same person and other items are getting knocked way back. Karen stated that there is a cap on the Poser items. People here are asking why this can't be done for 2D items as well. There's a limit on how many products are released each day in the MarketPlace. Why can't the Free Stuff have a limit as well?**

Unicornst thanks for answering that question,

This limit you speak of, is that limit in the MP per user, or sitewide?

**People, people, people.......

It has been noted that there was a disparity in how many free stuff items by a single member are being approved and there was some confusion about how many items are allowed per day. There wasn't previously a formal limit, with the exception of Poser, as there was no flood like this before, but now this is being addressed and hopefully we can get an automatic limiter coded in soon.

As it stands in Mod/Coord discussions we've all agreed to a 5 uploads per 24 hours informal limit until we get some input back from the code guys and gals.

Please folks, before we have more comments on how many uploads one person is doing, read the rest of the thread because it's getting redundantly reundant.. ...**

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

Thanks for the clarifying, Bobby.

Quote - **People, people, people.......

It has been noted that there was a disparity in how many free stuff items by a single member are being approved and there was some confusion about how many items are allowed per day. There wasn't previously a formal limit, with the exception of Poser, as there was no flood like this before, but now this is being addressed and hopefully we can get an automatic limiter coded in soon.

As it stands in Mod/Coord discussions we've all agreed to a 5 uploads per 24 hours informal limit until we get some input back from the code guys and gals.

Please folks, before we have more comments on how many uploads one person is doing, read the rest of the thread because it's getting redundantly reundant.. ...**

thanks for that. is that a limit per person? or per type? In other words could I upload 5 into the poser and 5 into the Bryce and 5 into the 2D etc etc?

*"is that a limit per person? or per type?"
*Good question Bea...I'll bring this up in our thread on this...relevant questions like this help us clarify...thanx for the input to all.. ...

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

Opinion here...

Should be 5 per User... Not 5 per catagory. That defeats the purpose of having limits.

I, too, have been getting annoyed with the recent spam...

Bobby, you might want to find out the props used in the Tubes and make sure there are not EULA violations as well. Issues have come up in the past where people were redistrubing 2d background made from Daz3d products in direct violation of their EULA.

For example, Balcony Background uses a Platinum Club item, the SS Balcony. And the Graffiti Background looks like a Freebie that was posted here by Richabri... The Shoehouse background is again a Daz3D product. The Ancient room is a Poserworld Set.

It's a suggest, but Daz does have the prohibition on creating 2d backgrounds in direct competition to their products.

Quote - It's a suggest, but Daz does have the prohibition on creating 2d backgrounds in direct competition to their products.

Last I heard, so does the MarketPlace here.

These suggestions posted to the Mod thread...patience my friends, code and decisions take some time but we're on it.. ...

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

Sorry I'm getting confused now!!
i thought if I bought and paid fair and square for stuff here or DAZ or anywhere, I can make images using that content and sell them!! e.g. make an image for a book using something I bought!

Or am I missing the point???

Sorry!!!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

**fixer, you can make images with items you buy and sell them.

What they're talking about is taking a prop....having only that on a psd or in a plain background...and then offering it up for sale. Daz says you have to have the vendors permission to do that.

I'm not 100% sure on the stand of giving it away.

**

Or indeed rendering vanilla/default DAZ Cycloramas and posting them as Backgrounds....

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

Giving away as well. Falls under redistribution.

Ok I can see the sense in that but, what if a client says I want an image of a clay pot on a blank background, so I do it using a clay pot I purchased from here or DAZ or anywhere and sell it to them, how does that stand??
I'm sorry if I'm being thick about this but copyright has never been easy to understand!!

Maybe I'm naive but I thought if I paid for it I can use it in my commercial renders!!!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

That is fine, fixer...

But if you render said image then sell it here or redistribute it as a freebie, then Daz frowns on it.

Hmm, Ok I get it but it does sound a little bit contradictory!!

TY!!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Quote - That is fine, fixer...

But if you render said image then sell it here or redistribute it as a freebie, then Daz frowns on it.

So then, why isn't DAZ throwing fits about every N.V.I.T.W.S. thats in the galleries here? Or in the galleries over there?

Everytime someone veiws those images, they are downloading that image. Thus the artist that posted it in the first place, is infact redistributing it for free.

There are certain things - backgrounds are the main thing I think, that DAZ will not permit to be onsold or given away because they are in competition with with their background that is for sale.

They are not going to ding people that can't help the way that their browser is programmed... The person has no control over that, and they (Daz) do it themsleves (galleries)...

The point comes in with the *deliberate * redistribution... Keyword is Deliberate.

Bobbystahr... Could you please consider using a default font colour? I have to highlight your posts to read it on my renderosity-blue background... Please remember that not everybody here likes blinding white backgrounds :)

How's this

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

Not good for a orange background. :)

But hey I can see it just find with the default color skin.

Excuse me, I'm in the process of uploading several thousands of 512X512 seamless abstract tiles to ShareCG. They are packed 10 tiles to a zip file for ease of download. My normal notification process is an announcement for each new 100 images (10 zips). They are my creations for stimulating my creative juices, and I'm offering them freely to others for the same purpose. Am I correct in assuming that the CG professionals here at renderosity would prefer not to be notified of my humble updates? I apologize in advance if I have wasted yor valuable time.

Quote - Excuse me, I'm in the process of uploading several thousands of 512X512 seamless abstract tiles to ShareCG. They are packed 10 tiles to a zip file for ease of download. My normal notification process is an announcement for each new 100 images (10 zips). They are my creations for stimulating my creative juices, and I'm offering them freely to others for the same purpose. Am I correct in assuming that the CG professionals here at renderosity would prefer not to be notified of my humble updates? I apologize in advance if I have wasted yor valuable time.

?

@Chaspo,

You can announce the zips/textures in the Freestuff Forum, but please be aware that only 5 items will be approved per 24 hr period.

Thanks!

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
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Yeah chapso, as we can't have, god forbid, of all things, a freebie provider making a little change for themselves.

Lord_syphex...That's not the issue here if you've been reading this thread, and should be as you popped up on page 1...if you haven't kept up, please try to start so we don't have to go over old issues time and again.. ...

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

Bobby,

(I hope I can call you that)

I have kept up. Thats just my opinion still.

::dryily::

Yeah, rather defeats the purpose of being a "Free"stuff provider...

::wanders off to appreciate the freestuff providers at Poserclub or some other place::

Frankly, I appreciate Quality over Quanity any day of the week.

Whatever. You yourself pointed out that DAZ frowns upon the items in question.

Why is that?

Money.

You know what never mind, I'm done with this discussion. The decision has been made anyways.

Quote - Yeah chapso, as we can't have, god forbid, of all things, a freebie provider making a little change for themselves

Syph, providers can upload as much as they want..but to be fair to everyone we have begun to actively enforce the limit of 5 approvals per day, per member, per 24 hr period...

Nothing is stopping the same provider from going to other CG sites and posting there as well to increase their profits from SCG

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Folks, the pointless bickering about a simple subject is well...pointless. The issues are not complicated:

         There is a "limit" on uploads - it has not been enforced in some areas. Moderator issue.
         There are some EULA violations - must be dealt with appropriately. Moderator issue.
         There is a lack of communication between moderators of different areas. Moderator    issue.

All the different threads distill down to the moderators needing to address enforcement of site policies, which they have indicated is being done. Once a problem has been brought to the attention of the designated moderators it needs to be left alone for them to handle. Repetitively rehashing the same points is an exercise in futility and only engenders hostility.

My opinion on copyright infringement and flooding a site with "tons o' crap" is fairly clearly stated in the ShareCG forum under "Open Discussion" thread "Site Issues". The greed of some and the childishness of others is making me consider putting both sites on MY banned list. I have opted to refrain from uploading anything further unless the issues are resolved on both sites. I am a proponent of packaging items where applicable as the pittance generated by ShareCG views isn't worth the animosity being generated by multiple uploads of similar items.

The best way to avoid any question of EULA violations is to ONLY UPLOAD YOUR OWN CREATIONS. If your are using someone else's material you can not ethically sell derivatives unless you have their WRITTEN permission to do so.

Jumps,

The decision apparently was made at or around halfway down the first page of this thread. :lol:

I have to accept and abide by that decision.

I don't have to like it though. But I guess I'll get over it, as I have some in the case of some of the other *****)(()U)_) decisions around here.

Yup, I know that...just thought Id throw it off in there again..just being my evil self again I guess...us evil Sith Queens can't help themselves.....well, I say 'us'..... I killed all the others so Im the only Sith Queen :laugh:

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

To be fair...

I did some poking around the 3d model stuff and there are gems that have been getting lost in the flood of 2d images.
It's those gems I would like to see more of. ShareCG itself doesn't bother me.

it's possible that even with a freestuff upload limit of 5 images per day, they'll still be dumping renders/photos in there, in order to get around the gallery limit of 1 image per day. of course, nobody would suggest charging them to upload more than 1 image per day to freestuff, in the same way that they hafta pay extra to upload more than 1 image per day to the gallery.

**Miss Nancy....that's such an evil idea I was tempted to delete that post but they'd [Admin] still be able to see it...LOL...no really i don't think that will ever happen and we are being a lot more pro active in monitoring Free Free stuff since the recent deluge.

@ Natolii well when looking for stuff I generally go to an object catagory when I'm looking for objects as you did....kinda the reason there are filters. And the search works quite well also. I don't see a problem here.. ...**

Once in a while I look around,
I see a sound
and try to write it down
Sometimes they come out very soft
Tinkling light sound
The Sun comes up again

Is this why some freestuff has gone missing? It gets tested, uploaded with pic, I download it and then suddenly it's gone!

I did not take the time to read though all 4 pages here, so hope I am not repeating... I got some NICE actual mesh prop scene areas, with a few real mesh plants and some "billboard" plants (real ones taken with a camera cut out and made into the ones on planes) but now they are gone?!? It's kinda disturbing but I told myself if I downloaded from here in good faith, I can go ahead and use them...

They do not 'remind' me of any prop scene I have bought... BUT with GIGS of stuff to install and my memory glitches, I could never be sure.

Lyne

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

I'm sorry, I probably shouldn't have any opinion on this, but it ties in to my earlier statement that y'all are getting ..... weird.

This was said by someone:

"Syph, providers can upload as much as they want..but to be fair to everyone we have begun to actively enforce the limit of 5 approvals per day, per member, per 24 hr period...

Now, you know, this site used to be the definitive place to get free Poser crap. Nobody in charge, say, 5 years ago, would have ever thought to limit that in any way.
Of course, now it's a bandwidth issue, so it's understandable to want to limit it, but consider it from this perspective:

Admin [says]: Upload free stuff!
Membership: And there was much rejoicing...
Admin: But, only so much...here's the limit....
Membership: But! We want Free Stuff! Capitalist Profiteering Pigs, give us our Free Stuff!
Membership: Err, sorry about the capitalist pig thing...ummm..., please control the free stuff, it's getting annoying. thnx.

And, 2 pages later, I stand by my earlier assessment - y'all are getting really weird.

Well, we haven't really had a problem with the freestuff running overboard like it has of late..if we dont limit it in 'someway' we'll have pages and pages of similar items..this way the exposure stays fairly evenly distributed to all the providers, not just a few. ;)

{and ummm..I can't help it if Im weird....much better and more fun than being normal :P :D}

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

No, I didn't say you are weird. It's Them. :)

"Them" being all the crybaby little F-wits who somehow feel that if the FreeStuff free stuff isn't qite up to their needs, and there's too much of it, too soon... or if it becomes a chore for the seekers of legitimate FreeCrud to have to wade through a veritable cesspool of "free-but-not-quite-what-I-wanted-and-possibly-overkill..."

Them. They who make FreeCrap for the purpose of highlighting their ablities and flooding the FreeSh*t pages with it, hoping that it'll help to sell their Not-Free Poserjunk... or those who simply benefit from hits on their pages.

In any event, this is the only online 3D digital outlet mart I have yet seen where people can get together and agree there's too much and too little at the same time. Like I said, y'all are weird. ;)

Yes I am see the very same thing uploaded top freestuff again.

Go to the page 1 and 3 of whats new and your see the very same "Fairy Alphabet" listed.
Well on page 3 it has 3 of them so one is missing there but there is all 4 on page 1 right now. So what was uploaded yesterday is uploaded again today but for the one that was missed yesterday.
If you go to http://www.sharecg.com/pf/joypauline?PSID=5921d346ed5f07613b8fa6e2ebdac1e9 your see they are the same.

I should say joypauline uploads that are on the 1st page now had more of the same 3 or 4 pages back. They are listed as "2D -> Original Clip Art" in the one group and as "2D -> Tubes/Nozzles/Sprays" in the other but there are just the one group at sharecg.com site.

I see we have 26 uploads by the same person on the same day. (5th of August) I thought this wasn't allowed :(

Hi Bea,

Nope, its not allowed and it has been taken care of. We think we have a good system set up now where this shouldn't happen again ;)

Thanks!

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Hello Hewee
I read and hear your post and totally agree with you. I had problems uploading to ShareCG and my files did not show. This led to some of "my stuff" appearing twice on Renderosity!!!!...This was a mistake and NOT my intention at all. I had to split files cos the ShareCG site was just going crazy. Sorry if I have caused you offence. It was NOT my intention!!!!
Cheers

joypauline,

Don't know they did not show because I seen them and that is why I said you uploaded here twice. You have lots of great Alphabet's. On the "Childrens alphabet upper" the zip file says it is size: 48742.35 KB but it is empty.
Then here you can delete the added "Fairy Alphabet" because it still only takes you to the one file at ShareCG.
I was only posting here about things and was not hurt by what you did.**

**

Forum: Community Center

Subject: Free Stuff out of Control

================================
"Discover your dreams ... create them!"

Forum: Community Center

Subject: Free Stuff out of Control

================================ "Discover your dreams ... create them!"

================================
"Discover your dreams ... create them!"