some chick: you make prop-type stuff, right? vehicles, stuff like that
me: i wouldn't call them exactly props
some chick: well, stonemason makes buildings and stuff and they're props
me: see, if you work with poser, it's okay to call them props. if you work with anything else, you call them art
some chick: well i couldn't hard surface model to save my life

....

Genius

---------
Phillip Drawbridge
Website 
Facebook

Huh !?!?  What ?

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

The concensus seems to be that if you make your own models it isn't art; if you render somebody else's models it is.:blink:

Friends don't let friends use booleans.

Works for me !  Of course I can't model worth a bucket of warm spit.

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

Okay, now I get it! I've been going at this whole "art" thing the wrong way! A carefully composed scene full of laboriously crafted models is just an advertisement for potential props, unless it has Poser people in it! From now on I am going to add a Poser figure, or two, or maybe a hundred in my scenes so that I too can be considered an "artist". ;-)

It's just Barbie, but on a computer.

http://joevinton.blogspot.com/

***"me: see, if you work with poser, it's okay to call them props. if you work with anything else, you call them art"

***Well, one interpretation of that could be that Poser workers are down-to-earth whereas those "anything else" workers are right up their own arses.

Being in both work groups means I know neither generalisation is true, but I am left wondering if there's maybe a little something arse related about someone who sells product to Poser users being on a Poser rant in the Bryce forum.

True appreciation of this editorial can only be acquired in the Poser forum. Let the entertainments begin...

.

There are very few who can pull off a good poser Image, I agree with orbital, most people use poser just like a Barbie but for computers.

Here is an example to illustrate.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1471386

At first glance is like wow look at that... but if you step back and look objectivly, there is this great oppertunity for a great action scene between Beast and Beauty.

Instead we have a Poser Model standing there holding sorts, with the expression that looks like she is constipated.

A very high percentage of Poser renders are like this, a Poser figure, with bunch of clothing, hair etc.. with a pose and than render and submit.   Facial Expression and a proper pose is very important and a lot of these just fall short.

Here is a good example:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1474268

In this one although we can see her face, this is a great action scene maybe a bit of motion blur in post would top it off... but this type of scene is better than the previous one.

Regardless of the genre, Paint, sketch, photo, Digital artware, FRIGGIN Tomatoes slammed up against a wall.....It's ART in the eye of the expressionist. Your interpretation is your own.

What grows an ill placed hair across my cheeks is the whiners & cryers, that piss & moan over the expressions of others. If you don't have anything nice or constructively technical(without personal issue)........Then shut the Truck Up!!
 
I've been reading comments from pissers lately commenting on their personal taste, while not taking into consideration that they've Thrown somebody's ass under the bus. I've come to the resolution that I'm not going to respond to these shallow souls and let KARMA, The big tooth dog "Chew them a New one".

Rant Over

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple

.
"...most people use poser just like a Barbie but for computers."

I agree, but just don't see anything wrong with it. After all, the 3D stuff I enjoy is equivalent to going 'whoosh' past your head with a spaceship model. There are at least three guys in this thread who do fine work in that vein.

When it comes to actual, you-know-it-when-you-see-it art, there is very little on evidence in any of the galleries here.

There is, however, rather a lot of highly skilled 3D illustration, even amongst Poser users who use purchased models and freebies:

Ken..

Quote - ...What grows an ill placed hair across my cheeks is the whiners & cryers, that piss & moan over the expressions of others...

Yup. That's my point. I am constantly told and see it said that making 3d models isn't art. Usually there are accusations of elitism thrown in when modelling is even mentioned; or else it is pointed out by a dozen people that modelling isn't 'real art', doesn't count, and doesn't mean anything.

Friends don't let friends use booleans.

I don't know if I make ART - I just try to have fun and express the ideas I see inside my head. I still use a lot of Poser 4 figures and have gotten some very good works (usually after doing some serious poly pushing in mesh tweaks)

I won't look down my nose at anyone posting here regardless of skill or talent. everyone posting has that urge to create and that is the important thing. All at least try, some grow from the experience, some don't... but all try!

I know someone who is never going to be an accomplished painter (personal opinion), but she loves doing it anyway. It brings her pleasure to do even if no-one sees what she sees. Sometimes she does catch something. Regardless of success or failure by others definition, I applaud her for taking that step to create and having the sense that ultimately it is only herself that has to be happy with her work.

Poser is just a tool. As is Bryce, Cinema or PhotoPaint. Create, and please yourself above all else.

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

brilliant! I can so relate to this!

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

So what am I ? A modeller, architect, artist, graphic designer? I don't know and I care even less. I just know that I work hard at something that is pleasing to me and to some of you.
But there are a lot of peps out there who could spend a bit more time working to improve their bog-standard characters that are right out of the poser box instead of slapping the things onto the page and claiming that it's art right after discovering the Vicky tit-magnets...er....I mean breast morphs.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader

All the Woes of a World by Jonathan Icknield aka The Bryster

And in my final hours - I would cling rather to the tattooed hand of kindness - than the unblemished hand of hate...

So what am I? ... a martian?!

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

The "breast morphs"? Didn't they open for Darkness at Hammersmith-Odeon?

I don't mind any tool, expression, prop people use and call it art, but some of the renders, it is very apparent that they didn't do anything to Barbie except repose her and call it art,...uhhh, I mean Viki, lol. ...eye of the beholder I guess.

I like Pie!

no, that was the Breast Magnets..;) they used Electricians' tape just the way WendyO' WIlliams used to..;)

I must fess up...to be honest, I use Poser figures to get people to look at the modeling...;) without a hooman bean in the pic, most people will pass it by.

What Stonemason does with models is art...and Drac's pullin' up behind him..;)

Actually, you can get a little bit of 'focus' by choosing each eye, and then using Object|Point at|Main camera...and then the eyes will follow you wherever you go..;) gives a little 'connection', but it makes my gallery look like the Hollywood squares...;)

and why are we having a Poser discussion in the Bryce forum?..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

   This is a poser site so it is expected that you will have the poser reality warp here. Nothing wrong with using poser and making nice pictures but there is a distinct lack of appreciation for those who put forth the extra effort to make all original stuff. To boot there is an expectation that you will give away your work so others can use it.
     
     The poser galleries are the most popular so if you are posting elswhere here your work pretty much will be ignored. If you want to hang out with others who make their own content then it would probably be best to go to a site that caters to that.

   I just post here for the few people I know here at this site. To get recognician for my work or critiques that I can use to improve it I go elsewhere.

The wit of a misplaced ex-patriot.
I cheated on my metaphysics exam by looking into the soul of the person next to me.

I find this true in the physical world too. Years ago I used to like going to a hobby shop and buying plastic model kits. Building them involved cutting the plastic parts, following instructions, glue, then carefully painting them. Lastly came decals that you had to soak first in water. Now days there's a different, instant gratification, attitude. More and more I see model kits pretty much already assembled, already painted, already decaled. Put together a model in 10 minutes instead of days or weeks. We live in a world where we are instantly gratified.. want sports on TV, there's 24 hour sports channels; or news, or biography, or history, or classic films, or cartoons, or.... The instant breakfast, instant lunch, instant dinner markets are getting more popular. Is it a "now" generation?

A little about me is I'm the type who likes to take time to do something I truly enjoy. I like gardening outside, doing woodworking, and reading the classic literature books.. you know, the thick, hardback ones. And I like 3D modeling. Making something original, that no one else has, then rendering it is like.. the cherry on top of an ice cream sunday (sundae?) You know, the missing part that the scene just needed to make it right. And better that I could make it from scratch.

There's nothing like doing it yourself.

Of course there's lots of nice things in a market place, and freebies are wonderful too. So for every rule there is an exception. My uncle was a professional painter, very old school. Made his own paints. Although I don't physically paint, in the 3D world I do similar, and it is rewarding when I can look at something I rendered and know that all, or nearly all, you see is completely made by me.

"The "breast morphs"? Didn't they open for Darkness at Hammersmith-Odeon"  Nope,.......that was the Morphing Breasts.

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

We might have a simple terminology issue here. In Poser, anything that's not a Figure, or Hair, or a Pose, is in the Props folder. Frankly, I admire anyone who can get a half-decent render out of that program. And Poser, without a fair amount of plugins and add-ons, is very limiting when you're used to a modeling program or a more flexible render engine. (Sorry, FireFly drives me buggy.) Real world.. Pixar has people who model, people who animate, people who texture, people who do FX. Each one is just as important as the rest. And how the final images are arrived at, isn't as important as the images themselves. We don't have ten people to fill in our weak spots, so we use what we have at hand. Not everything here qualifies as art with a capital A, but there is really nice work in all the galleries. lee's 2-cents worth..

PJF: I'm a DAZ brokered 'artist' and i don't sell for the Poser community, I sell models at large. And they're made in Bryce/Carrara.

m

...and i don't sell for the Poser community...

http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=5110

Must be really tough having DAZ take your work for Poserisers

.

Drac:
thot you made your models in Wings?
By the way, nice Bryce work lately. Wish I could find my mojo.
John

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy

If you will glance to your right, you will see two names, not one. Xenic101 did the porting to Poser. It's still a ship, not nipple rings, skirts, or other Poser paraphernalia. Plus it was sold to Poser outright, with all rights waivered. The money they paid me for it makes me immune to whatever use they give it - even wiping their ass with a hardcopy and posting it on YouTube.

All in all, I really don't give a rat's ass. Now you keep doing whatever you do best. 

m

Usually when I throw a in comment , the thread dies.  "why are we doing this, .........again?'

Threadkiller!!!

http://joevinton.blogspot.com/

Nipples rings and floss g-strings RULE! ;)

Friends don't let friends use booleans.

Quote - Usually when I throw a in comment , the thread dies.  "why are we doing this, .........again?'

 

Group Therapy, now everyone have a group hug,
:b_nervous:
My name is Gog and I do a little bryce and blender a little.....

----------

Toolset: Blender, GIMP, Indigo Render, LuxRender, TopMod, Knotplot, Ivy Gen, Plant Studio.

*ALL-*Greek-chorus unison-*Hi Gog!

I swore last week I was going to model a little bottle labled Chill Pills. This weekend, it's getting done. As far as I can tell, the major difference between a Model and a Poser Prop, is that a Poser Prop is a heck of a lot more work.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=450554&member

Tell that to Bambam131.

http://joevinton.blogspot.com/

Known bambam for ages.. he does good stuff. Now try getting that Poserized. shudder I'd rather pull out my fingernails. Clarification: You work for days or weeks making a model. To get it into Poser, you work for days or weeks... It wrecks the phong settings. It turns furniture into Toon Town rejects. It does mindboggling things to the UV mapping. Your textures turn to glue. Faces disappear. You have to do strange and arcane things to it in Poser... Did I mention my hands shake and my stomach churns every time I even think about opening Poser? Afraid my stuff will stay in Cinema.

I know, i'm just sticking up for Bryce. Know nothing about poser so I can't really comment.

http://joevinton.blogspot.com/

The thread is dead! Eeek.

R.I.P.

This thread confused me :)

Die, die, die oh thread of dread.   Die I say.

hehe hehehe   crap it isn't working.

Must keep thread alive. Drac inject some adrenalin and get ready to restart the thread.

The wit of a misplaced ex-patriot.
I cheated on my metaphysics exam by looking into the soul of the person next to me.

....I dont call it anything.....I just look at it and if I enjoy it then i study it and enjoy it more. Dont care what its called or if its called anything. You may refer to my work as therapy...it tends to keep me on the close side of sane.  I may use a wide variety of programs, use what you can and what serves ya well. 
 I have learned to generally not listen to people go on about things. tends to be a waste of time. Dont really care about their opinion or to change it. I am what i am and do what i do. And I do it because its something within me that needs to get out.
 that said i am convinced that i need to learn to create my own content.....
 Ya`all have a great weekend,
:)

Isn't this argument about as revealing as saying, "Look! humans have two eyes on their faces." If the eyes were an the same side of the face you might have something new.

I still like pie... and breast morphs.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=904834&member

If I keep posting to this thread all will finally figure out I have nothing to say.

See "tales from the crypt" by electroglyph, March, 2005.  The whole posting is a great chuckle if you haven't seen it.  And, yes, it does apply to this thread.

....I like BBQ chicken.....
....and honestly I dont think i`ve ever posted in a thread here and I just wanted to be included........so thx and cya.......

Speaking about the Hot 20, nowadays know as the "Top 100 Most Viewed / Last 45 Days", out of all those 100 pictures not a single one had something else than the human body as a subject.

Yep, most can't modell their way out of a wet paperbag.

Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.

....I would think that most folks get into 3D by setting up scenes and rendering or posing figures. Much easier and less time consuming than learning to make meshes. And prolly most of the non-professionals either arent interested enough to discipline themselves to do it (because it is not a real easy learning process for us mortals) or dont have the time. 
 There are however many nice freebies out there as well as some excellent ones you can buy (Meshbox). 
 Of course consider what they are interested in doing and seeing....we as human can be forgiven for being preoccupied with the human as subject. Maybe we should run a poll and see what people say.....?

Quote - If I keep posting to this thread all will finally figure out I have nothing to say.

See "tales from the crypt" by electroglyph, March, 2005.  The whole posting is a great chuckle if you haven't seen it.  And, yes, it does apply to this thread.

I agree with that.  And since I joined(earlier this year?), I have seen countless rants, and yes, I have ranted a few times too.  I'm upset about the fact that just because it's done in poser and you can see a naked chick, it's art.  Some of the renders are pretty good, and I do know some of the frustration of trying to get Poser to work.  I had an absolute nightmare making Bryce work, as some of you remember and gave a lot of advice. 

I don't consider the renders I have made art, but I like them.  I know they are no where near the level of what some other people here have done, but I like them, and they all came from my head.  But I do consider them superior to some other renders I have seen, BECAUSE they came from my head, and I pieced them together bit by bit, not loading it up after someone sold it to me, and tweaking it's pose, or taking it's clothes off, and uploading it and calling it all mine.

I don't make props.  I wouldn't call them models.  And I do not call what I make art.  I pull what I have in my head out, and render it to the best of my abilty.  I am better at making something with my hands, than on the computer.  But I like it, on and off of my Lappy 3500.  So, If I have offended someone like I normally do daily, I'm sorry.  I really didn't mean to.  But I do feel better now, and hopefully at least some of you do to.  Or did I truly tick someone off and get myself banned?  Oh well.

In my perfect world, Metacreations sold off all their other crap and kept Bryce and Poser, fully intergrated them to work as modules of a single program, upgraded and updated the program on a yearly basis and retailed the whole shebang for less than $300 US.

And put the rest of the 3d progs out of business.

I would live in the real world, but I'm so much happier here.  :^)

John

This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy

Well I will say what annoys me is not so much making poser pics. Who cares. It is great artisists who are being ignored like Lemong , Flakmonkey Matthieu. Mostly becuase of the insular nature of the poser community. Most users will not bother looking at pictures made in other programs regardless of content. A lot of very good artists left this place for similar reasons.

       Does it matter. Well really it doesn't. There are other sites and a few which poser is simply not permitted so there are other places to go. What can we do to make it better. Go through some other galleries that are not poser or Bryce enjoy them and find some real gems and acknowledge them. Appreciate the effort that it takes to build things up from scratch as opposed to downloading or buying items and make note of it.

The wit of a misplaced ex-patriot.
I cheated on my metaphysics exam by looking into the soul of the person next to me.

John ! Nice to see,......uhh, hear,..........uhhh, read you !

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

I think the term I read at one time was artistic snobbery....some snub it if it isnt made by painting on canvas, some if it isnt made by a pro program etc etc etc.  Is it still art if it is painted with a brush yet you dont grind your own pigmenst etc?  yea it gets annoying, but its a waste of time. And youre not likely to change anyones mind. 
.....and I agree with Groucho....
:)

RANT mode-
I have never cared what tool was used to make an image (unlkess it had some specific feature i wanted to try myself). A brilliant work is a brilliant work even if made from toothpicks and three different shades of dog poop!
As I have said before and grasshopper seems to back up, we make art solely because we want to, and, it makes us happy in the process. Comments and viewings are pure icing on that cake. If rndo closed tomorrow, I would not stop making images because making them makes me happy! I would miss the icing though!
We should celebrate everyone who gets off their butt, and makes, be it models, images, tools, etc! It is a special thing in a person and needs to be cherished. Maybe after a while,  a gentle nudge to try to grow in terms of techique...
Exit RANT mode.
(grin)

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

And I would like to offer a blanket thank you to all those who have helped me over the years and given me that occasional nudge,  it has been appreciated!

I have a pot of french vanilla flavoured coffee, a warm multi-core siting idle and the urge to work on something...

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

Coffee on: check
Machine Up: check

Headed to the same place!

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple

Latte' in hand: check
Machines humming:check
Cat bound and gagged:check

Get ready to Rennnnnnderrrrrr !

"Any club that would have me as a member is probably not worth joining" -Groucho Marx

....and all I had to work with was ONE shade of dog-poop........well call those mylean` years.
:)

I agree with Incarnadine,all of the comments and everything else is extra icing on the cake.  The only reason I went with Renderosity, is that with the problems I had when first using Bryce, this was the best forum that I found for actually getting help.  All of the others had either been dead for at least a year, or it was filled only with people that needed help, or no one cared.  With Renderosity though, I got answers almost immediately.  I could go to a Bryce only site, or like Dann-O said, a site that does not permit Poser, and has a large percentage of members that truly appreciate the abstracts and landscapes, and I don't know what it is, but's it cool images.  But if I did that, well, I would miss people like The Bryster with his super high speed martian internet satelite connection.   Oh, and I have to apologize for my earlier rant, I have now used 1, and only 1 object that I haven't built.  It was a boat.  But I built the world up around it. 

Hrm, I could use one of those Bryster connections....

What's all this about the latte/coffee comments? Has anyone been rummaging through my WIP folder? I've been working on some more cappuccino for the Secret Garden challenge....

:-)

The story is, I was planning on working through a pot of coffee and working on a render
Real life got in the way though. I recently moved from an in city apartment of 17 years to an outer suburbs house. I actually ended up barbeque hunting instead. Old one didn't survive the move to my new place. Then grocery shopping, then off to Candian Tire (it's a Canadian guy thing...cross between a hardware, automotive, sports/camping, garden, and home decoration with some furnishings and electronics store all rolled into one) and then it was time for supper. Did grilled italian sausages (on the new grill) with havarti cheese, beer  mustard and very lightly toasted buns accompanied by a couple of cold India Pale Ale's (Keith's). All followed with fresh local strawberries, thick cream and a trace of maple syrup.
It has been a good day (despite not rendering) and I am nursing a big case of the fat, dumb and happies!

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

(envious)

___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple

Yeah, that does indeed sound a pretty fine day.

Dreams are just nightmares on prozac...
Digital WasteLanD

@ Incarnadine  

Finally something I can relate to!  Sounds like you are sampling the good life. I to am envious.

After 3 months of work (2 of reno prior to move, move and unpack and more reno) it was really good to finally be able to kick back and not have to do house stuff. Was a good weekend.

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

I eat babies.

Props are props are props....no matter what program you use them in. If you make your own props....more power to you. Art, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but Props used the same way, image after image is assembly line work and not art. Props are props....but creativity, inspiration and idea can turn them into art. ....and the thread lives on for another day....see, skiwillgee you didn't kill it.

**I usually just call a model a model, unless of course it is rigged, then I call it a character.  I cannot wait until I am good enough to sell stuff to DAZ. ** :thumbupboth:

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!

Hey Incarnadine!  Nice to see you around.  Reno was never intended to be a lifelong thing.:scared:

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!

Your barbecue story reminds me of a good practical joke to play on your new neighbors.  You know how most people fire up their grill without opening it to check it out first?  Well scour the freeways for a couple pounds of nice roadkill.  Then put it into your neighbors grill and close the cover.  When you see the smoke indicating that he has started his grill, call the police and tell them he is grilling neighborhood pets.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!

ROFL! Gee Dan, remind me not to move next door to you!

Hi Dan, how's life in the southern heat? From what i gather you folks don't need a grill, just let stuff sit out in the sun... (grin)
Nasty, nasty, nasty... (big grin)
Owning a house is for life, not just moving day! (more grins)

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

I had to get up on the roof a week ago to make sure some shingles got fixed before the monsoon rolls in and I nearly died.  Down here everybody sells thier house after six years or so and avoids the  hassles of haveing to replace major items before cashing in the equity.  Neighbors are so over rated.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!

Everything is in pretty good shape at the moment here, still have to tinker the eavestroughs a bit though. Been a fairly wet summer so far.
I can believe the nearly dying.

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

**The odd thing is that none of the new construction going on here uses eavestroughs.  The old timers houses have them though. Letting water pool close to you foundation invites termites and termites own the darned desert.

I had a small potato patch going and the termites got it all.**

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!

A shotgun helps quite a lot with termites. As a solution, it must be said that it's almost totally ineffective in dealing with the overall termite problem; it's just that the application can be highly rewarding.

Better results are guaranteed with the latest developments in conventional explosive ordnance - though it seems likely any potato crop may see a reduced yield.

.

I like bbq's too! wish my weekend contained bbq's...

anyway...
Props is just a word. What matters is the connection the word implies... Within poser, anything non-figure is a prop, an extra an additive on the side.
Its status is not defined from an artworks point of view. You can make anything a topic, point of interest, additive, or even plain scene-filling material, theres no way of setting up a rule for this.
So instead objects are named from the applications perspective. Poser makes figures, so within the program, anything that isnt a figure is a prop, simply because it doesnt match up with posers core functionality.

--
Ray

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

I have some 2" thick aged Angus rib steaks.  A light coat of olive oil, some Montreal Steak Spice, a bit of fresh fine chopped garlic and just a trace of ginger. Friday night!

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

Incarnadine,  gimme ur gps coordinates.

Just follow your nose! (grin)

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

So lets see...

If I give someone "props" for doing a cool work of "art" it's different than giving them props to include IN their art. Unless of course the subject of their art is props in which case I'd be giving them props for their use of props in art about props.
Which is not at ALL to be confused with a easel...which is a prop for art, really.
Then again if I think about it from a application contextual standpoint...a poser piece might use a figure as a prop, or prop a figure in the background and include it in the art. I'm not sure I'd give props for that unless it was good art...or a good prop.
But of course the props ARE models after all, unless they are figures in poser in which case they're...figures...
But if I made a model of a propellar, prop, and propped it in a corner against a wax figure of a pilot, named ART...another prop...and it was GOOD art...would I prop it on an easel? And if I did would I get props for that or just huggles and kisses?
I think I need a rule set...
So I guess my rule of thumb will be something like this:

1. Always give props for good art
2. Sell props whenever possible
3. Make art about props wherever feasible
4. When using a figure as a prop in a poser context never name him Art...that would confuse the whole deal.
5. Whenever presented with the opportunity of propping up a beautiful model...take it....friends WILL give you props for that.
6. But don't take picutres...that would be art about props and models' figrues...that would be bad
7. Unless you could sell it as art about models' figures and props and prop it on a easel...for money...that would be good

'kay...I think I got it now.

Hey Claymor....I like your prop-osition....but, just to prop it up some, make it propout from all the rest. Give it a prop-er sturdy leg to stand pro-up on. Unless of course you prop-ose to just prop it right down on the propform and stand on its own merit. But, if nothing else, at least prop-mise me that you won't prop-tend that you didn't say all that you prop-osed in your last post....prop-lease!

Thread killer only fertilized this one.  It keeps growing.

so.. what's the prop eh.. prob.. with undying threads?

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

LOL,  and that fertilizer is growing corn.  Ack

It's all prop-ably a prop prop-erty prop-osal to prop up poser, I have no prop-lems with that! (grin)

Pass no temptation lightly by, for one never knows when it may pass again!

do u think Daz will ever make a propster program?

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

....ready?....
....prop-ably......
:(

haha, do i smell "the future of bryce" there? :tongue1:

(_/)
(='.'=)
(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

...dont know, but something smells...and it ain`t the sweet sweet smell of victory either....

Hard surface modelling?
What's that, is it like box modeling?

The problem with computer Barbies is that you can't set them on fire and smell the burning plastic or feed them to Cujo and see him bite their heads off.

dvlenk6
The concensus seems to be that if you make your own models it isn't art; if you render somebody else's models it is.
<
Maybe we can lie and say we bought the models from Pollygon's or Speedysquid's.

Could also go the Sybil route: Um, these are not my models its my artsy personality's models.

As far as modeling not being art well modeling is like drawing or sculpture. Both of those are arts. A good scene with lousy models is not going to be good.

While the modelers and the posers fight, the real enemy laughs. Ignorance.

At another site every few months someone posts a "Where are all the Traditional artists" or "Digital artists are taking over threads" or some such rot in the traditional arts forum.  Then they trot out the same tired horse, "Digital is too easy, can undo, etc". Its basically ignorance of what it takes to make a decent to good digital picture. "Some chick" is basically ignorant of what it takes to model and how to make a scene from scratch. Maybe folks like that should try to do stuff from scratch so they can feel/know what its like. Too bad we can't have a "Someone else's shoes day" at Renderosity.

At the end of the day, its the user not the tools that determines the quality of the picture.
I bet that if we took the best artist(s) here and put them against some of the hacks here and gave them a contest in which they could do what they want , use any software but they could only use cubes, the best artists will win because they know more than just software.

prop-osterous thread which should have died long ago.....let it go people :blink:

 

quit propping it up then man!

after a long reading session

Weeeeell, as i'm a poser user, i think i could expose my opinion about this.
The main matter is to tell if poser users are less or more valuable as 3d modellers. Honnestly, there's no reason to ask this question, because judging a picture by the tools used and not for its own quality is the most snobbish behaviour possible.
Orbital and Analog X have compared this hardware as a "barbie playing". In the facts i can't really blame their opinion, because it's a kind of simplification of its "way of creating", loading character, clothes figures, setting poses etc etc etc... So, compared to others picture fully modelised, are these works less valuables? The most i can say is to see what was the creative mood.
For sure, making a picture fully with poser (not renderig, making) is really faster than pure modellisation, but i don't think it automatically means there's no.... artistic or rationnal behaviour behind. Some people complained to see a lot of simplist works in the poser gallery, but it's like in any artistic medium, there's always good and bad works, the main problem is about what we (and the users) can do. Let them make not any evolution, or help them by noticing what they have to do? Then come another main problem the "artist" (as any user is called in RR) and the viewers' behaviour about PMP and comments. The ideal behaviour is to try to help in any comment, and litsening critics to get better. But for sure, if you don't care about the errors you see or you are not motivated to improve yourself...
The matter is poser, by its simplicity of using, is one of the most popular 3d hardware in these kind of communities. But others artist often combinate poser with others tools like cine 4d or 3ds. Honnestly, i try to interrest myself in the maximum of mediums. For sure the most of the pictures i can see are poser based, i sometime i discover really artpieces, sometimes i see some real horrors. Same thing in the fractal gallery, same thing in the photo gallery etc etc etc...
It's since 15 months i especially use poser as main tool, i try to improve my modelling skills with amapi and cine 4d at the same time, and i recently used 'toshop to finalise my poser works and giving a better aspect. I often take photos (i uploaded someones) and i draw a lot since i'm child (honnestly, i'm rather good in it)  Each picture i do takes me minimum 10 hours of work (making on poser and postworking on toshop) sometimes i finished a picture after more than 30. I always try to have the best result possible finding a natural pose, a good face expression, a right color harmony etc etc etc... Even if i make pin up pictures, even if i use poser, even if i have to deal with the available ressources and i haven't the level to create my own yet, i try to make something good, and i'm sure it's the case for a lot of poser users.
It's true that a lot of users i see in this community with a really high level merit to be better considered, but it's a matter linked to the galleries presentation, and a miss of curiosity of a lot of users. But we don't have to forget why we make art, for sure for sharing this in a community, but especially for our own pleasure...