Having been ticked off by Karen for being aggressive here, I am trying to choose my words carefully.   I have noticed that some newcomers to the site are intimidated by the vociferous responses.   They submit questions like people approaching the Great King enthroned in Persepolis.   I don't think my misdemeanours have anything to do with this (admittedly, I would say that).   The problem is that a newcomer enters a question that has been answered before and someone very abruptly and aggressively says so, without revealing what the earlier answer may have been.   The newcomer is compelled to resort to the useless Renderosity forum search engine, which, to be perfectly honest, gives the impression of having been unearthed in Persepolis in the first place.

If you know the answer, say it.   If you don't know, don't reply.

I can't tell you how many emails or PMs I get from people who are afraid to post their questions here so they ask me privately.

I haven't asked anyone why they are afraid to post  but I'm sure that noticing the responses that some other people get is a factor.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Darius?  Alexander? or Xerxes? ..;)
The thing is, there are always going to be newcomers. I've long been ticked off myself by the 'this must be a stupid question'...and go on in the next paragraph to ask about parsing python files, or rewriting cr2s..;)

People will learn at their own speed. I think what Curious Labs and Daz 3d should keep in mind (I'm sure they pop in here..in fact, I've seen them do it) is to note the 'stupid' questions of all sorts, and use them as information to improve the products in the future. 

Just my 2p.

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

There is no such thing as a stupid question. As you said, we all learn at our own pace and what may seem stupid or common sense to someone who has been using the program for months or years, it's a very real question and problem for someone relatively new to the program.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

This FAQ should be required reading for anyone posting to forums online:

How to ask questions the smart way

This part is esp important:

Quote - Never assume you are entitled to an answer. You are not; you aren't, after all, paying for the service. You will earn an answer, if you earn it, by asking a substantial, interesting, and thought-provoking question — one that implicitly contributes to the experience of the community rather than merely passively demanding knowledge from others.

I am talking about situations where the responder implies that he/she is well aware of what the answer may be, but commands the questioner to hunt in the labyrinthine archives.    Certainly, members of this forum can't claim any contractual entitlement to useful replies, but in which circumstances is it right that a member of the forum withholds the requested information, if it is freely available?

Quote - I am talking about situations where the responder implies that he/she is well aware of what the answer may be, but commands the questioner to hunt in the labyrinthine archives.   

I haven't seen very many of those types of responses. Granted there have been a few, but I think for the most part we as a community do pretty good in answering questions, even ones that have been asked multiple times in a few days.  Also, for each response that you see like that, someone will come along and provide a more indepth answer, at least they usually do.

Also, it's a good idea for people to get accustomed to searching using the search feature here.  I find this search engine by far the most superior to others I have tried, and that's because they allow you to narrow the search time down by "newer than" and "older than" date options.  Granted it's much easeir to search a forum when you are familiar with the forums and what has been posted on them. But it's a good idea for everyone to know how to use the search feature, just because there is such a wealth of information in older threads that you really won't know about until you actually search out certain topics and read the older threads on the subject.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Quote - I am talking about situations where the responder implies that he/she is well aware of what the answer may be, but commands the questioner to hunt in the labyrinthine archives.

I would hope nobody is being an actual snot to a newcomer...we are all new at one time to everything..and that sort of thing is totally uncalled for.

However, we do encourage members old and new to use the search feature, and even the new faqs pages for questions that have been asked multiple times...the faqs pages contain great info ;)

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Quote - There is no such thing as a stupid question. As you said, we all learn at our own pace and what may seem stupid or common sense to someone who has been using the program for months or years, it's a very real question and problem for someone relatively new to the program.

There is, if you haven't bothered to conduct a forum search for the question first. 
DPH

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

""There is, if you haven't bothered to conduct a forum search for the question first. ""
 
Sometimes people get to wits end looking for answers they can never seem to find.  Me - myself, if I might know something ask me - Id rather give someone 2 minutes of my time than them have to search for hours (wasting much more time) just to not find the answer.

I look at it this way.  You can set this forum to see like 30 threads at a time.  So if you don't like one thread (a question you don't want to answer) then don't read it - but If you're like me and don't mind, then go ahead and help the guy/girl out.

I am:  aka Velocity3d 

OT *Pakled:  Darius?  Alexander? or Xerxes? ..;)

Sorry, missed this...   I think Darius I built Persepolis, didn't he, although I don't know if it was finished in his lifetime.   I suppose I had him in mind.   For obvious reasons, Greeks were less likely to regard Xerxes as "Great", although some of his successors managed to recover the kudos which he had dissipated.   In Classical Greek, basileus meant "king", but, in Athens, which didn't have kings from a fairly early date, it was the title of a pretty feeble official.*   Any other king, to the Greeks, was ho basileus, i.e. "the king", except for the Great King of Persia, who ruled such a vast empire (and it was incredibly vast) that no other king could possibly compare.   The Persian king was Basileus - capital Beta, no need for a definite article (Greek doesn't have an indefinite one).    It gets traditionally translated as "Great King" into English.  

Alexander burned Persepolis, reputedly during a drink-fuelled banquet.   Handel set it to music, in a very genteel sort of way.

Are you new to discussion fora in general?  "RTFM" has been a common answer to many questions since the first time I looked around in any online forum, all the way back to Usenet in something like 1989.

My Freebies

RTFM? What does that stand for?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Long ago, in another forum here, I decided this wasn't the place for me after seeing the RTFM response. The manual for that particular app was dog-eared. At another site, I lit into an Admin for posting a very snotty "use the Search function, dope" response. It's hard to search for an answer when you don't know the answer, or what the problem is exactly. People don't like to look stupid, so they hesitate to ask questions. When they do get brave enough to ask, they might sound on the kow-towing side, just so they don't get an answer that embarrasses them. Heck, maybe they haven't even spotted the Search up there. To quote another site's sticky: Think before you post. Do the right thing.

RTFM=Read the F**king Manual.

It's all fun and games...
Until the flying monkeys attack!!! 

We have to remember also that while some peeps might be new to 3D stuff, they might also be "relatively" new to computers, or forums even and as such may not know how to go about using the search here, which isn't entirely user friendly is it!!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Attached Link: http://www.msc-inc.net/Documents/InternetSlang.htm

> Quote - RTFM? What does that stand for?

See attached link.

Well it's six on one hand, half a dozen on the other. Yes, we're all new at some point. Yes, we should answer questions when we know the answer and true, no one should be afraid to post....

On the other hand, people posting to the forum have some responsibilities as well. But people want a quick easy answer. Rather than searching the Poser PDF for, for instance, "Add Runtime" and getting three hits, with the answer on the third selection. That takes a small amount of effort. More effort, apparently than asking. There have been times when the last time the question was asked hasn't even fallen off the first page yet.

So, the new poster is not willing to read the manual, is not willing to read the fora (except for their question) and is not willing to search the fora. In that case, I don't think it's inappropriate to politely direct them back to the resources available for them.

Successful forum are like delicate ecosystems, with a great mix of different levels of technical expertise. But if a forum becomes overrun with people asking the same simple question over and over again, and these posters are enabled by getting detailed responses over and over again, the more advanced users will become frustrated and bored and move on to different forums. That would, in the end, destroy the delicate balance that makes this an interesting forum because mid-level users come here to learn from the more advanced users not just help beginners.

Just my two cents...

kalonart.com

Some of that is very true Kalon.

I've seen the posts here where the same question is asked more than once just a couple threads apart.  But I think that the people who TRULY don't want to be bothered with searching for information for themselves fall off in short time anyway.

The ones who ask "How to I makes a poser model?"  and are given the incredibly complicated answer - 75% of the time never show up again.  What I'm saying is the people who just want a "make art"  "everyone does the work for me" button don't stick around long.

I've had 3 different people now (for others I'm sure it was many more) who when presented with the notion that they might have to actually read something in order to succeed with this 3D stuffs - just basically gave up. 

I guess I just look at it like beggars on the street.  I'd rather give them 1$ and have them not need it, then not give them $1 and have them need it.

I am:  aka Velocity3d 

Interesting topic. I, having spent probably WAY too much time reading forums, have  been mildly frustrated trying to find a potential answer to my question. for the record, I do make an
effort to search thoroughly but while doing so come across what seems like several
variations of: "can anybody HELP me?" or "newbie with question...".  the result being my 
having to spend hours poring through irrelevant posts to find an answer. I suspect some who
post a question (that may or may not have been answered already) give up after spending a lengthy amount of time digging through the forums and go ahead and post.
         This in itself can add to the problem,however, by submitting a question already
answered. therefore making the forums painfully and unecessarily lengthy.

Having said that-and I believe I've mentioned this before-It is equally frustrating when I post a question and the respondent well meaningly gives an answer that is the equivalent of giving a blind person a book to read. It is my opinion that one should safely assume the OP knows the very basics of the subject, unless the OP states otherwise, therefore saving each others'
time. I am always grateful (and let it be known ) for any responses I receive, whether helpful or not. but by following the above example,  perhaps everyone can benefit.
my two(and a half) cents.........    Ed

Please can someone help me. I'm trying to find the 'make art' button jjroland talks about but I can't find it. I'm sure it's in the manual but I can't be arsed to read it. I'd use the search engine but that seems more trouble than it's worth.

RTFM.
heehee.lol..........

Quote - Please can someone help me. I'm trying to find the 'make art' button jjroland talks about but I can't find it. I'm sure it's in the manual but I can't be arsed to read it. I'd use the search engine but that seems more trouble than it's worth.

Sheesh!

It's just to the left of the "Instant Expertise, no Learning" button. Sounds like you need  the "how to locate your buttons" switch turned on.

Okay, that's three cents, can I get four?

:tt2:

kalonart.com

I've just ran a search for 'make art' in the last 45 days. It only brought up a thousand results. Watch me read through everyone & it'll be the last post which gives me the answer I'm looking for.

I met one of my very best friends through a PM asking for technical help.  And, as Acadia remarked, they were afraid to post a question in the forum.

BTW, the Make Art button is in the Python submenus in Wardrobe Wizard.  Really, it's there.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Hey kalon, I could do with that "Instant Expertise, no Learning" button. :woot:

Right, you guys are just making fun of me now. I was trying to be serious. :sad:

the search function here actually works, in its own inscrutable way. it could be more advanced IMVHO, but any search engine anywhere requires a modicum of human intelligence to narrow down the results. perhaps when they get the FAQ thread in place, it will be easier for newbies to find answers without the agony and embarrassment of having to post a message in the forum here. regarding the mods and co-ords here, they're under alotta pressure all the time, so try to bear with them.

Quote - Hey kalon, I could do with that "Instant Expertise, no Learning" button. :woot:

You and me, both. I hear it's on that alternate keyboard. It also has the "Weird Science" button-- you know, for super realistic benders, oops, I mean renders.

kalonart.com

gives Miss Nancy a great big 'ol hug

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Quote - Right, you guys are just making fun of me now. I was trying to be serious. :sad:

 

I promise the Make Art button is exactly where I said.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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My Gallery

This is karma. For the first time in ages, I can't get something to work. Everyone else seems to get it. I read at least 5 threads on how to make it work. It doesn't work. No way am I going to look like the one dummy in the crowd and ask. Good grief, I couldn't even understand the explanations. :crying:

May I guess?

Matmatic? Parmatic? or AMUCSF?

kalonart.com

go ahead and ask, scan. the peak of mentality is the negative judgement.

Yes. Yes. And yes. But I'll never admit I said that. ;) I worked around it. lee..who does not code...and evidently can't unzip LOL

Yes, the inscutable workings of Bagginsbill have humbled many a man and woman. I definitely count myself among that number.

Glad it all worked out.

kalonart.com

You know, it might be a good idea to have a "Poser FAQ" (or something along those lines) forum.

But yeah, I've seen it where people got shot down in flames when trying to ask a question, and anyone who sees a response like that isn't likely to ask.. anything.

We've all started somewhere once.
Telling people to "Use search" (which I find incredibly rude btw) isn't the answer, especially not in this forum, where "Search" is the equivalent of "Stab in the Dark".
The only other place where I encounter a search function as bad as the one we have is at RDNA...
Actually, tell a lie. DAZ's search is crap too.

Silke

Attached Link: Node Forum at RDNA

> Quote - Yes. Yes. And yes. But I'll never admit I said that. ;) I worked around it. lee..who does *not* code...and evidently can't unzip LOL

Well Matmatic / Parmatic etc... I've attached the link. :)

(No idea if that was the question but hey! I insist this is helpful! :P)

Silke

well...Alexander was Macedonian, leading among others, Greeks (always trouble, that combination, an outsider leading a 'domestic' army. Napoleon and the French, Hitler and the Germans, Alexander and the Greeks..;)

Perseopolis sounds like a Greek name to me, which probably is what's throwing me off..;) Though both Persians and Greeks occupied it at one time or another. Interesting, though, I seem to remember that 'Baselius' was a rank in the Byzantine forces later on, something like 'general'. There was this general in the 7th Century  AD...;)

I dunno..you started the Greek thang..;) I was just playing along. I specialize in stupid answers, sometimes..;) Outside of the Hallelujah chorus, and Water Music, it's all I can Handel..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

There are FAQ's here, fourth line under the forum title... and they're looking for volunteers to help update them.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

This probably hasn't been said before, but isn't that what the forums are for?  Is to help people either newbie or seasoned?  I for one have never experienced a snotty answer from anyone however, I have read some condescending remarks by all kinds of people not just MODS.  I also haven't had any negative responses from MODS at all since I've been a memeber.  Just my 2 Cents.
Adrian

Pakled:  Yes, you're quite right:  "Persepolis" is Greek (sorry:  I wasn't disagreeing with you).    I suppose that the Persian Empire played such a big role in Greek life that the Greeks (both those who were under Persian rule and those who weren't) needed a convenient way to refer to the Persian capital.  

Silke:  *But yeah, I've seen it where people got shot down in flames when trying to ask a question, and anyone who sees a response like that isn't likely to ask.. anything.
*So have I.

This thread was inspired by a new thread where the author had not actually been shot down in flames, but clearly expected to be shot down in flames.

Circumvent:** ** Yes, it is what the forum is for.  If you have never experienced a "snotty" answer, that's good for you and it's a good thing, full stop (that's English for "full stop").   The fact is that people enter new threads here and plainly expect to be shredded.

Quote - There are FAQ's here, fourth line under the forum title... and they're looking for volunteers to help update them.

 

If you click the forum banner it takes you to the "backroom". The Backroom used to be full of relevant information including the Poser FAQ. The FAQ link is broken now takes you to a "not found" page. The FAQ is also not listed under the forum title. Hopefully, the Mods here will take some time and get the Backroom back in shape one of these days. and put the link to the Backroom back under the Forum Banner where it belongs.

It's all fun and games...
Until the flying monkeys attack!!! 

I'm confuzzed... I was looking at this, on my side:

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Works for me, too.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

And when I click on it it takes me to FAQ's... the old one I was talking about. See Screenshot. As far as I know, the backroom hasn't functioned in a while, in more then just this forum.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

7/22/07

I had thought to skip this thread, but it keeps coming back to the top of the messages.

I have from time to time received irked replies in this forum to questions or statements not intended to annoy. But as one who has stood on the other side of the Great Wall of Silent Stone, getting flamed, lectured, or scolded is much better than being ignored. Many forums either do not generate enough traffic for anyone to notice a question, or newcomers are simply neglected. Getting answers, regardless of the tone of some posts, is the best of all possible outcomes of a thread. Most posts here will get a response, and if there is unfair bullying, some one will step in to defend the poster, maybe even the poster her/himself.

I know of no other Poser forum that generates the traffic of this board, or the density of useful answers. Almost all of the content providers, most knowledgeable Poser gurus, and even the folks from E-Frontier and Content Paradise stop in here. Renderosity doesn’t even charge admission. Oh, and if you are trying to be clever in what you post, or you write in long and twisted sentences, put in a smiley or two, I am told they help, (You had better smile when you say that, stranger!).

On another subject mentioned in this thread, the FAQ is linked at the top of this page and the link works for me.

'Baselius' is Greek for king. Seeing that many of Alexander the Great's generals became kings of his divided empire after his death, I can see why his generals might have taken that title.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Quote - I can't tell you how many emails or PMs I get from people who are afraid to post their questions here so they ask me privately.

 

I get the PM's from the same.  But I use Google to find the links on here instead of Rendo's own search engine.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Damn, I thought I removed all the old backroom links.  Gone now.

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Quote - I'm confuzzed...
I was looking at this, on my side:

 
Oops, my bad, I totally missed that. Must have had the wrong glasses on...lol! I do think it should be a bit more prominent though. It's pretty easy to miss. It would be nice to get the backroom going again too, there was a lot of good stuff for newbies in once.

It's all fun and games...
Until the flying monkeys attack!!! 

The backroom went down when we changed the forums over last year. We are supposed to be getting all-new all-singing-and-dancing "community pages" for each forum which will be easy to maintain even for those staff who don't know HTML, which should be a big help in here since I'm the only fluent mod!

Only thing is, I think we asked the programmers for soooo many things to go on them that they're still printing out the list now :lol:

---

"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan Shire

Just in case anyone's interested, this is what Phil C's 'Make Art' button does.

---

Windows 10 x64 Pro - Intel Xeon E5450 @ 3.00GHz (x2)

PoserPro 11 - Units: Metres

Adobe CC 2017

Quote - > Quote - ""There is, if you haven't bothered to conduct a forum search for the question first. ""

If you're like me and don't mind, then go ahead and help the guy/girl out.

Thanks for the voice of decency, JJ. As a former teacher, I could spend pages explaining why someone might ask a question again that had been "answered" in another thread. If people like DPH are too bloody busy or important to answer, nobody is holding a gun to their gonads.

The search tool is a joke. I have used Google to search R'osity sometimes.

As for doing the work of searching for the questioner, I don't see that as a requirement. I have occasionally said, "There's a thread out that that helps out with this question" and left it at that. And I wouldn't be offended if someone answered me that way. Without being insulting, the answer tells me that a search might work... optimistic, but at least I know there is a needle somewhere in the haystack.

Civility is a one-way street around here. I'm getting used to walking upstream.

M

Quote - RTFM? What does that stand for?

:)

Really Tough F@@# MoFo. It's a remnant from the days when little pencil-necked programmers with pocket protectors could imagine themselves as Conan the Cimmerican [sic] while typing anonymously.

The geek forums that introduced and propagated RTFM (they also loved to make their computers Submit, and would, on occasion, Kill them. Being extra-programmatically illiterate, they somehow managed to dub themselves Unichs) were made up primarily of folks who get a kick out of knowing something -- anything -- that nobody else does.

Finding the answer when you aren't sure how to ask the question, much less what the answer is, is no mean feat. To come back to Acadia's comment, there is no such thing as a stupid question. Just stupid answers.

M

Quote - In that case, I don't think it's inappropriate to politely direct them back to the resources available for them.

Agreed. And it is possible, just possible, to simply ignore them...?

The RTFM answer is a joke, after all, since every "manual" produced with a piece of Windows software in the last ten years (show me an exception, please! I used to believe in technical writing) is worthless dreck. "The Help key will get you help. Click on Help About to learn more." It's a downward spiral. The unwillingness to read allows software companies to not care about the quality of the manual, and the quality of the manual discourages reading it.

The P5 manual actually had some information backwards ... things worked the opposite of the way the manual said they would. No surprise, when you consider that the software wasn't finished when the manual went to the printer. I don't much care if a questioner has spent four hours or none checking the manual. Either option could be an intelligent choice. The advent of searchable PDF manuals has simply confirmed what we know about manuals: the information is not there, or if it is, it's in a form that the keyword search mentality can't find.

Hey if any of your are referring to me in the snippy group, I plead guilty. Some days I get cranky when someone asks a very common question and I have to run search for them. Still I do it. The cranky comes with the actual answer :biggrin:

Anybody having troubles with matmatic, parmatic, or AMUCFS should absolutely post. Sometimes users help each other out, particularly on MAC/Python issues.

By the way, the Node Cult forum was specifically made so you can slavishly worship every word I have to say.  :tongue2:

I currently have 27 CG forum generated questions or private messages to get to this morning. I ignored everybody all weekend while exposing myself to massive quantities of harmful UV radiation on a sailboat. I also sliced my finger open with an electric hedge trimmer. It is very hard to type. My margherita glass is empty. Sigh.

---

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

bagginsbill - I quess some people will be getting some cranky pm replies from you today then, that's if you're able to type anything!! :blink:

Quote - > Quote - In that case, I don't think it's inappropriate to politely direct them back to the resources available for them.

Agreed. And it is possible, just possible, to simply ignore them...?

 

Hmmn, actually, for me no, or at least not for very long. I have to agree with lkendall, if I see a post with zero replies but sixty-something people have read it, I think that's more hurtful, so I tend to jump in. Even if it's to say, good question, I don't know the answer or, again direct them to resources, even if it's providing the search terms necessary.

kalonart.com

bagginsbill, you poor guy, the cut and sunburn are bad enough, but an empty magarita glass! Oh, my! Have someone fill that right back up: you can even use it to kill germs on that cut. ;) In my case, I really do need to RTFM. Never used a Python script in my life. Didn't even know where the buttons were. blush To my credit, I have been able to recreate every single error message listed in all the threads in both forums. g The good news is, muddling around in the Material room was an eye-opener!

Quote -
Oops, my bad, I totally missed that. Must have had the wrong glasses on...lol! I do think it should be a bit more prominent though. It's pretty easy to miss. It would be nice to get the backroom going again too, there was a lot of good stuff for newbies in once.

 

No biggie :). You had me going LOL, I thought it went away, or the link was broken. It is kind of hard to spot.
It would be nice to get the backroom going. I think they could use help with that....

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

BB I don't think anyone was referring to you, I certainly wasn't.  Though I have seen you get cranky, I found it quite funny when it happened.

I think anyone with any common sense (sense is never common I know), knows the people who are overloaded and can demonstrate a bit of patience with them. 

I am:  aka Velocity3d 

Quote - I have to agree with lkendall, if I see a post with zero replies but sixty-something people have read it, I think that's more hurtful, so I tend to jump in. Even if it's to say, good question, I don't know the answer or, again direct them to resources, even if it's providing the search terms necessary.

 

Yeah, I agree with that one!!! 30 views and no answer is worse then a hurried answer pointing someone to resources. I don't see short and to a point answers to newbies as mean or aggressive. I don't like antagonistic answers very much, but something short with a link to a search or answers is quite appropriate. Someone actually taking time to explain things is a big bonus, especially with questions that repeat themselves few times a week, or as JJ said are only few threads apart.
I was rolling my eyes last week, there was a same question asked 5 times, and all threads were on the same, front page here. That tells me that people asking didn't even bother to scroll around the page in search of info, but just posted a question and expected the answers will come pouring in.

Bill, with all the wonderful stuff you do for people around here and other places, you get a 'get out of jail free' card for being cranky any time you want. 

That's one major thing that's prteventing me from jumping into full vendorship. I don't have the time or energy or patience to provice cheerful customer service. Once you start selling your things, you're obligated to provide it. At least with freebies, one can say, sorry that's the best I can do (and from that follows, that's why it's free).

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

"At least with freebies, one can say, sorry that's the best I can do (and from that follows, that's why it's free".

So that's it now then Connie, you give us those brilliant Victorian shoes, you've had your way with us & now you're just going to leave us to play around with them with no help whatsoever!  :biggrin:

Quote - "At least with freebies, one can say, sorry that's the best I can do (and from that follows, that's why it's free".

So that's it now then Connie, you give us those brilliant Victorian shoes, you've had your way with us & now you're just going to leave us to play around with them with no help whatsoever!  :biggrin:

 

Aw, thanks :)  that's cute!
I'm actually hoping someone whom knows more then I do will grab them and start playing with them, and teach me a thing or two!!!  [Okay, so I can daydream, can't I?]

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I'm acutally using the shoes in one of my many projects at the moment. I've been in the material room putting in some black leather, Vicky looks quite sexy in them!

Just a thought...how about a new forum entitled  "Newbie Questions" or something similar?  That way, those who want to be helpful can, and those who don't want to bother reading don't have to?

Since we know the questions will continue to be asked, at least they could all be posted in the same place;)

MirageBay - Interesting idea, I think that could work.
BTW, who's the gal in your avatar? I saw her in the marketplace some time ago & thought she looked interesting but I forget who she is now & by whom. I could be wrong & she just looks like your avatar.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=MirageBay

The gal is "Falon" by me.  She's on sale until July 31 by the way:)

WOW, sorry, I never realised it was you. 
I just wish I had the money. I like her face, it's rare to see V3 in the marketplace these days.

Quote - I'm acutally using the shoes in one of my many projects at the moment. I've been in the material room putting in some black leather, Vicky looks quite sexy in them!

 

You know, the Apollo Conforming Apron I jsut released has a really cool procedural leather shader in it by Bagginsbill... (hint hint)  in case you haven't snagged one of his shaders already :)

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - WOW, sorry, I never realised it was you. 
I just wish I had the money. I like her face, it's rare to see V3 in the marketplace these days.

 

No problem at all:) Thanks for the compliment.

A leather shader sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out.

Actually, BagginsBill posted it in this thread, about half ways down:  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2703112
about half ways down. The file is a regular mt5, just drop it in your materials folder and use.
It's easy to change color of it, by changing diffusion color (I think that's all, but going from memory here.)

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I am new to this 3D poser, money grabbing, time sucking addictive habit about 7 months now. Been around computers to long to remember everything I forgot :) I feel the reverse is the case, that newbee questions get met with no issues. Granted having to service computers here at work as part of my job I know the fire drill. So I try to give information, like I searched the forums on these keywords or some such statement that says I am not looking for you to solve my issues unless I have first given some effort on my own to figure it out. The responses have been very helpful and I feel I was treated with respect and felt welcome here. In my mind based on the activities in other forums unrealated to 3D anything, this place is and or daz, rdna, etcs forums are nice places to hang out and learn. If you want to get your head handed to you on a silver platter, I can point you to som really crazy places.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Thanks for the link Connie!

grichter - Yeah, these forums are generally full of good & informative people. I've yet to get into a heated battle with anyone, but there's time yet!  :ohmy:

Quote - The backroom went down when we changed the forums over last year. We are supposed to be getting all-new all-singing-and-dancing "community pages" for each forum which will be easy to maintain even for those staff who don't know HTML, which should be a big help in here since I'm the only fluent mod!

Only thing is, I think we asked the programmers for soooo many things to go on them that they're still printing out the list now :lol:

That's good to know. Let's hope it doesn't take another year for that to happen.

It's all fun and games...
Until the flying monkeys attack!!! 

Miragebay said   *Just a thought...how about a new forum entitled  "Newbie Questions" or something similar?  That way, those who want to be helpful can, and those who don't want to bother reading don't have to?

Since we know the questions will continue to be asked, at least they could all be posted in the same place;)
*I can see your point, but...

(Warning:  slight flippancy here) ...   I don't think that that would work.   Actually, it might make things worse.   I don't see any advantage in splitting up Poser threads in this way.   After all, the implication is that the most likely people to be on the "Newbie Questions" forum would be people who considered themselves to be "newbies", so they might struggle to get their questions answered.   Would the moderators define who was and who wasn't a newbie and expel unsuitable posts from the main Poser  forum?    And is a  "newbie  question" one that is asked by a  newbie (in which case, who decides whether the questioner is a newbie?) or one that conforms to the type of question expected to be asked by a "newbie" (in which case, any member of the forum could be named and shamed by having his/her closet newbiedom exposed and the errant question sent into newbie exile)?

I think that my solution is best.   If one knows the answer, or thinks one does, one should supply it.   It takes just about as long to refuse an answer (service with a snarl) as to give it.   If somebody really hasn't the time to batter out a couple of sentences on his/her keyboard, what is the point of visiting here?*

"I think that my solution is best.   If one knows the answer, or thinks one does, one should supply it.   It takes just about as long to refuse an answer (service with a snarl) as to give it.   If somebody really hasn't the time to batter out a couple of sentences on his/her keyboard, what is the point of visiting here?"

Agreed.*

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Point well made:)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2705949

I guess the new guy wasn't asking for advice in that thread but WOW, I honestly cant believe those responses.

I am:  aka Velocity3d 

Hmmmm...

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

I'm an oldie. I came to this community when it was Poser Forum, just before the place came to be called Renderosity. I was at the time, new to being online. I was new to a PC in fact, having come from using an Atari computer (which I still proudly own and love). And new to 3D. I was kindly given Poser 3 by someone I met on the net who had upgraded to Poser 4, which at the time had only been out a few months. Unfortunately, it had no manual. I was clicking on things in the program and finding out what it did. I began asking questions of those whom I saw posting the most. I had no idea at the time WHO I was asking this questions of. Two names come to mind, like Traveler and PhilC. They all were wonderful to me and answered what I am sure were absolutely stupid and/or easy questions. Recently, I read the forums and only comment occassionally because I am quite surprised and sometimes appalled at the unfriendly response to questions. I may have been using Poser since 1998, but there are things I am still learning.  And even I have been unsure of posting a question in the forum these days. But, I still come here and cruise and look a discussion forums for what I can learn.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

 

 

Quote - > Quote - In that case, I don't think it's inappropriate to politely direct them back to the resources available for them.

Agreed. And it is possible, just possible, to simply ignore them...?

The RTFM answer is a joke, after all, since every "manual" produced with a piece of Windows software in the last ten years (show me an exception, please! I used to believe in technical writing) is worthless dreck.

 

I remember it being used to direct people to the UNIX manual (or online man pages). Which, generally, were pretty useful.