Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL


Subject: DAZ Studio 1.7 is released. Wait until you see what it's like!!

RAMWorks opened this issue on Jul 28, 2007 · 152 posts


RAMWorks posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 1:10 AM

Attached Link: DAZ Studio 1.7

Holy crap this is amazing.  No, I am not kidding you!!! DAZ Studio just jumped up into hyper space with this release.  Go check it out!! 

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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Dajadues posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 1:22 AM

I'm not keen on it's busy interface but, it does render faster than prev versions and you have to register it. I may start using it again if it keeps rendering at a normal speed without bogging down. Studio would super lag on me that's why I stopped using it for a long time.


Faery_Light posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 1:26 AM

Just popped over and checked it out. Fantastic! I'll be downloading soon. Thank you for the heads up. :)


Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
     BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.


RAMWorks posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 1:35 AM

Your welcome.  Check out the features thoroughly.  There are some pay for plug ins now added into the free Studio base program.  It's really cool so far.  I'm quite tickled!! 😄

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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pzrite posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 2:38 AM

Well I don't post much anymore, but I just have to say.....
I've been a Poser user since version 1 and I have resisted any serious attempts to use D|S, but DANG, it's really looking good.  One of the most frustrating and tedious jobs is posing the figures, and it looks like Daz has come up with an easier way to do this.

I just played with it for a few minutes on my laptop (the kind with a touch pad instead of a mouse) and it was very easy to use.  I can't wait to try it on my main computer using a real mouse.

Eh! I feel like a traitor.  But maybe Poser will incorporate some of the new posing features into it's next version.


jonnybode posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 3:02 AM

Thx for the notice, migth be worth trying out Studio now.

I see that they give away the 3D Starter Pack too for free, wonder if its for Studio or Poser?
It contains useful stull like both M3 and V3 reduced resolution.

Regards / Jonny



Dajadues posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 4:57 AM

The splash screen is annoying the hell out of me. And the camera's stink.

I can see I wont be using this often but it renders fast.


stormchaser posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 6:27 AM

Thanks for the info RAMWolff. I originally played with Daz Studio a couple of years ago. It was this program that got me involved in 3D art, which then made me want to convert over to Poser 6. Since this time I have heard about the progress Daz has made. The thing is, I mainly use Poser 7 now just for creating & posing my figures before importing them into Vue. I'm not sure it would be worth it personally for me to spend money & learn a new program when I probably wouldn't be using all the bells & whistles. I must say that the light system I have seen in Daz Studio is awesome. If I wasn't working with Vue I probably would be tempted.



pjz99 posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 7:23 AM

I'm not surprised D-Form is built in now - they kind of had to, to make V4 work properly on the Alma Mater software.

This content exporter can't possibly be as good as it sounds:
http://www.khronos.org/collada/

"Take Victoria 4.1 into Maya, Softimage, 3D Studio MAX, or almost any other popular 3D Mackage, with complete mesh, skinning, rigging, lighting, camera, and animation data, which is then immediately available."

coughbullshitcough

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ghonma posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 7:50 AM

Dunno what they'v done with it, but COLLADA does support all those features. XSI uses it to transfer anim, rigging, models to and from MAX and Maya...


ghonma posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 8:40 AM

Well it does seem to work with XSI. You get a rigged V4 mesh in XSI that you can pose and animate. Still testing out how well morphs work.

From top to bottom,

  1. Model in D|S that i exported as COLLADA, V4 in default pose.

  2. Model imported in XSI using crosswalk. I got the textures and rigging intact. Even the groups from the mesh are preserved.

  3. I can now use the joints (the white nulls) to pose the mesh in XSI.

Should work the same with MAX and Maya as well, though i dont have those to test with.

Edit : forgot  nudity tag


nruddock posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 8:57 AM

Quote - This content exporter can't possibly be as good as it sounds ...

It has the potential to be, IF the various apps interpret the data in the same way.

Geometry, hierarchy, and possibly animation are likely to be easier compared to material settings, in this respect.


cedarwolf posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 9:10 AM

Cool...I'm at home on dial-up for the weekend (I really wish that Yahoo and some others would realize that the whole world isn't sitting on DSL or a T1 line...) so I'll have to wait till Monday to fetch and play.


RAMWorks posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 10:03 AM

Y'all are welcome for the heads up.  I don't use the COLLADA exporter for much but it looks like ghonma has put it through it's paces and found it to be useful!!!

Thanks all

Richard ;-)~

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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SamTherapy posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 10:26 AM

Thanks for the heads up, RAMWolff.

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Dale B posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 11:47 AM

Oh man have you checked out the current and upcoming COLLADA standard? Bruce Willis said it best, I think..... Poser and Vue are going to =HAVE= to implement COLLADA support....which could once and for all solve the issue of the converter/importer clashes. Talk about cleaning the pipeline out....


Kaji posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 11:53 AM

They didn't say anything about Cinema on the Collada front page... so I assume it's either buried or we're just left out in the dark?



pakled posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 12:40 PM

well I do have to admit, at least they fixed the file dependency problems that prevented me from loading the last couple of versions in Win 2k...good work.

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)


wdupre posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 1:02 PM

Quote - They didn't say anything about Cinema on the Collada front page... so I assume it's either buried or we're just left out in the dark?

Unfortunately C4D still hasn't implemented Collada, but believe me I am going to be hounding Maxon about that at siggraph ;)



Greywolf Starkiller posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 1:19 PM

I like it so far. I'm a long time Poser user and currently have version 7. DS still doesn't have
anything like Poser's MAT room or Setup room, BUT, DS handles the content libraries
lightyears faster than Poser, and it's render speed is also much faster. Now that I'm getting
used to the DS interface, I'm using both programs right now. Another factor pushing me 
towards DS is Poser's instability. I've done several DS renders without a crash, but for some
reason, Poser crashes to the desktop at least ONCE per session. There never seems to
be a common denominator either. It crashes anytime, anywhere. Most annoying crashes, are
the ones that take place after a LOOOOOOONG render. So far, DS has proven more reliable
in this regard. Hopefully E-frontier will address this mysterious crashing to the desktop, as I
like Poser. (And paid for it) ^_-

Greywolf


Conniekat8 posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 1:27 PM

This is looking very promissing!  Thanks for the heads up RAMwolffee :)

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
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moogal posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 5:30 PM

I have a few things done in each version of Poser since 4.  If I install Daz Studio, will I be able to use the more recent stuff?  I'm expecting a lot of material issues.


moogal posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 6:28 PM

Does anyone know if you need the morphloader plug-in to load pre-morphed figures? 


cedarwolf posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 7:31 PM

Attached Link: The Dread Pirate Vicky

Ok, I succumbed to temptation and downloaded on the dial-up.  Here's what I did:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1489983

OMG...this is SUCH an improvement!  I haven't even played with anything yet, this is "straight out of the box."


dvlenk6 posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 7:38 PM

Thanks, RAMWolff.
The collada exporter seems to play nicely with 3ds max too. 😄

Friends don't let friends use booleans.


Khai-J-Bach posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 7:43 PM

*DAZ Studio 1.7 is released. Wait until you see what it's like!!

love to. but I get a nice error message each time I try and render...

'Runtime Error!

Program :

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's Support Team for more information'



kuroyume0161 posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 7:53 PM

How does Collada work with conformers if at all (a small, minor very important necessity for Poser figures)?  Otherwise you'll have a bunch of nice nekid figures in the receiving application and a fun time clothing them except via dynamic cloth sims.  Maya, Max, and/or XSI allow multiple mesh partitions on a bone?

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


dvlenk6 posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 8:12 PM

Quote - How does Collada work with conformers if at all (a small, minor very important necessity for Poser figures)?

The collada file seems to carry the conformers well, AFAICT. I haven't tried too much with it yet to say for sure.

Friends don't let friends use booleans.


LostinSpaceman posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 8:16 PM

Does it still play well with Bryce's latest version?


Dajadues posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 8:20 PM

I'm sticking to Poser. I find the DS interface too confusing. Eww.


kuroyume0161 posted Sat, 28 July 2007 at 11:32 PM

Quote - The collada file seems to carry the conformers well, AFAICT. I haven't tried too much with it yet to say for sure.

I'd be very interested in your results.  Although I've heard of the Collada exchange format have not delved any further so how it does it or how it may be implemented (by D|S) would be interesting for sure.  Since I use Cinema 4D and don't have XSI, Maya, or Max, I can't really test this myself, unfortunately. :(

Thank you very much, Robert

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


dvlenk6 posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 12:21 AM

Quote - ...I'd be very interested in your results...

So as not to hijack the thread here, I made a topic in the Max Forum.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2706687&page=1

Friends don't let friends use booleans.


R_Hatch posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 4:16 AM

I wonder what kind of results one would get going from Poser -> D|S -> Blender via the Collada method. I guess I'll have to give it a try...


maclean posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 4:18 AM

Quote - And the camera's stink

????

The cameras in DS are unbelievably easy to use. Try this tutorial on cameras and lighting.

http://digilander.libero.it/maclean/DStutorial.htm

mac


cedarwolf posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 2:06 PM

Attached Link: Whitechappel 2007: The Morning Before it All Began Again

*Does it still play well with Bryce's latest version?

*Wow...good question!  I dunno...lemme poke the beast with a short stick and see what happens.

Lessee...I've got Bryce 5.5, and by clicking on the icon D|S opened right up like it was supposed to.  I loaded a scene I've been working on,  but I can't remember how to get it into Bryce....I don't work with Bryce that much yet.  The manual says
"exit DAZ Studio" and supposedly the object will be magically whisked away into Bryce.

Yep, that seems to have worked.  It converted the Studio image into Bryce.

Rendering...rendering...Wow!

I think it works.."IT"S ALIIIIIIVVEEEE!!!" (Inserty scene of Marty Feldman on the phflugle horn...)


wolf359 posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 5:16 PM

Dont know what "Collada" is but the new release of DAZ studio v 1.7 now includes a free FBX exporter for exporting poser rigs to cinema ,XSi,Lightwave MAX etc
it seems to  work  but i cant get the figure to come into cinema with textures intact

non  issue for me as i use interposer pro

 but its a nice free option for those interested

Cheers



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YouTube Channel



Dale B posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 6:45 PM

Google it, Wolf. I think you will find it interesting. Basically, it is a new, almost totally open file format intended to take content across applications. V4 was taken into XSI with the rigging intact, for example. And a full COLLADA supported export is supposed to be able to carry deformers, camera paths, lights, shaders, almost the whole magilla. And the format is designed to ignore whatever it hasn't been coded for completely, not try and do....whatever with it. The one gotcha is there is flag control for copyrighted content, so things that you can't export due to permissions won't export throught COLLADA either. If you had Poser, Vue, C4D, Max, Maya, & XSI and all had full COLLADA sharing support, you could build scene elements in all and shuffle them back and forth between them all to your heart's content. eF asked about COLLADA support for P8, so there is apparently some interest.


Little_Dragon posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 7:28 PM

I was under the impression that the FBX exporter was still $99.95 ....



byAnton posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 7:34 PM

Cool news. 5 years later sounds like it has all finally come together.

Will check it out later this weeks. Thanks for the ehads up.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."


Over 100,000 Downloads....


RAMWorks posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 7:54 PM

I think if you really take the time to get to know the full on interface it may not be Poser but it's got the rooms or tabs now and keep in mind you can set up each tab individually!!  Yup, your not going to see the same thing in each tab and you can add or subtract tabed modules as needed. 

Fer instance.... see the image to see what I'm talking about..... I have docked tabs on either side and I've chosen a split view in the Pose - Animate Activity Tab (yea, that Activity Tab thing has gotta go).  One one side I've got the Scene, Puppeteer and Power Pose on the right and on the left I have Parameters and Hand Grip.  On the bottom of the interface, hidden, I have the time line tool.  So this room is properly set up to do all things posed and animation!! 😄

As you can see the banner that runs along the top is an added in banner.  I really don't want V4 staring at me and the other options were kinda dull besides the Hexagon and Carrara banners.  So I'll be replaceing those as well "soon" with other Apollo faces banners.  It's very cool.  Next I want to look into changing out the splash screen to something more to my liking!! 😄

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

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Kaji posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 8:02 PM

Does this handle the Poser python scripts yet?



Ardiva posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 8:09 PM

Thank you, Wolfee. :)



RAMWorks posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 8:27 PM

Nope, not that I know of but with the SDK on sale for $99.00 (regularly $1000.00) I'm sure someone may take a stab at doing Python for Studio if it's even possible. Considering that DAZ was considering using Python in the beginniing and I believe that there was a conflict with using the open sourced QT libraries that prompted them to take a different direction all together.  But you never know!!! 😉

Oh and if you want my Apollo banner, Anton or anyone, it's here for the taking!! 😄  Install it simply by dropping it here:

C:Program FilesDAZStudioresourcesimagesbackgrounds

It will be instantly accessable by clicking on the banner area and click through untill you see it pop up!!  It's quite simple and I'm probably going to do more but I'm still mosying around and getting familiar right now with all this!!

HAH!!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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bcoleman posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 9:06 PM

Quote - Considering that DAZ was considering using Python in the beginniing and I believe that there was a conflict with using the open sourced QT libraries that prompted them to take a different direction all together. 

The problem was that the Mac version of Python was severely lagging behind the Windows version so Python was abandoned in favor of the native QTscript language.

More stuff than you can keep track of? Try the free Poser Download Tracker.


RAMWorks posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 9:33 PM

I knew someone would chime in.  Thanks very much for helping me to remember.  My mind my mind where's my mind.... LOL

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

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byAnton posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 11:00 PM

Cool. The banner thing makes me giggle.  :) I was hoping it was a lighting tweak thingy or something useful. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."


Over 100,000 Downloads....


kuroyume0161 posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 11:33 PM

Are you absolutely positive about the $99 for the D|S SDK?  Won't that make the other developers a bit peeved after paying $1000 for it?  I know as I've looked into it several times - once when it was still new, very confusing, but free and then again recently.  But that $1000/yr tag just didn't work for me.

To make the point.  It's not that DAZ is making developers pay $1000.  It's TrollTech (Qt) requiring this for their licensing fees through DAZ.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


byAnton posted Sun, 29 July 2007 at 11:45 PM

Hey ,does Studio support Poser's Taper dials yet???

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."


Over 100,000 Downloads....


RAMWorks posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 12:09 AM

Attached Link: DAZ Studio Plugin SDK with Qt

Here's the link to the SDK!! 

Anton, I do believe that the scaling is even better now.  Taper dials I forgot to look at those.  I'll have to try to look at that tomorrow..  I'm tie tie so I'm going to go to bed early tonight.  Ah the joys of getting older.  Bed before 11 PM!!! LOL

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

My Freebies are HERE  


byAnton posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 12:15 AM

K. Let me know.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."


Over 100,000 Downloads....


nruddock posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 3:14 AM

Quote - Are you absolutely positive about the $99 for the D|S SDK?  Won't that make the other developers a bit peeved after paying $1000 for it?  I know as I've looked into it several times - once when it was still new, very confusing, but free and then again recently.  But that $1000/yr tag just didn't work for me.

To make the point.  It's not that DAZ is making developers pay $1000.  It's TrollTech (Qt) requiring this for their licensing fees through DAZ.

The deal was that once you made the license fee in sales, the fee got refunded.
It was only ever free when it was in Beta (which required an NDA, IIRC) .

All three (or four ?) must have managed that or been bought out.


wolf359 posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 6:24 AM

> Quote - I was under the impression that the FBX exporter was still $99.95 ....

didnt cost me a single penny



My website

YouTube Channel



R_Hatch posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 9:06 AM

**FBX Plug-in for DAZ|Studio

Sale Price: $48.98
Save 30% through 8/31/2007

Reg. Price: $ 99.95**
Platinum Club Price: $48.98

Is what I see right now at DAZ.


Tomsde posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 9:07 AM

Thank God I didn't buy Pantomine!  

I wonder if the hand grip will ever work again :0(, but I guess you can get similar results with Pantomine.

I wish I hadn't just reinstalled version 1.5 on my redone desktop.

I guess D/S 2.0 is still a way off.


jugoth posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 9:11 AM

For a free program you cant complain but??????? the same bugs are in this one, even 1 bit bad.
Add run time normally   program wont find the obj when load figure, but if you do auto search program will work when load character, but.
If you try delete a run time it wont show in correct order as i have 6 p4 folders showing and want delete 4 but don't show correct order, but.
The dreaded pose bug and rescale bug still in program, load a character with a nice pose most time you will have to repair in studio, or you get some clothes either have 30% scale increase or shrink 90%.
Their is away round it but its a bloody pain and this program has not been beta tested other wise the same bugs would have been reported.
Every 3d program ya buy from America every time a new version comes out they keep most bugs in from previous version.
But as i say you cant complain that much as program is free but i wish they would get people to beta test the next version before release.
They have not improved cartoon render at all but i have noticed the normal render option gives you even more high resolution renders, and am still impressed with the quality of studio render output.


Tomsde posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 10:15 AM

Perhaps I'll hold off. . .  I dread the idea of reinstalling all my plugins, but I never had Pantomine and would like hand grip to work again so I'll probably end up installing it.


RAMWorks posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 10:44 AM

Quote - Thank God I didn't buy Pantomine!  

I wonder if the hand grip will ever work again :0(, but I guess you can get similar results with Pantomine.

I wish I hadn't just reinstalled version 1.5 on my redone desktop.

I guess D/S 2.0 is still a way off.

Tom, all you need to do is redownload and install Hand Grip.  Works just great for me in this new version of Studio!! 😄

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

My Freebies are HERE  


cedarwolf posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 10:47 AM

Back to D|S:  I downloaded the free content from DAZ and installed it to the Studio folder and it won't show up in D|S even though the new runtime I created in Poser just for that content does spiffy.  Any ideas what the problem might be?  I also posted the same question to the DAZ forum.


RAMWorks posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 10:48 AM

Did you run the search tool or add the runtime in using the Prefs dialog under the Edit drop down menu??

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

My Freebies are HERE  


cedarwolf posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 11:16 AM

I used the Prefs tab...I had already run the program and downloaded and installed the other content this morning.  I'm thinking of just deleting all the new stuff and setting up a seperate Poser runtime on the drive where the D|S program is and seeing if that works.


jjroland posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 12:00 PM

Perhaps I'm a dolt but I can't even figure out how to add or find any content in this program.  It says in the quick start guide that something would automatically start and look for content for me.  Didn't happen.  So I found a way to add directories myself but all that shows up are the readmes.


I am:  aka Velocity3d 


Tomsde posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 12:38 PM

Are PW Ghost, Shader, and Surfaces really plug-ins?  Will I have to reinstall them too.  If so they were restored from a backup runtime so I will manually have to delete them before reinstlal.


wdupre posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 12:41 PM

Quote - Perhaps I'm a dolt but I can't even figure out how to add or find any content in this program.  It says in the quick start guide that something would automatically start and look for content for me.  Didn't happen.  So I found a way to add directories myself but all that shows up are the readmes.

yes it should have done a search though I have heard that Vista isn't allowing the search not sure about for anyone else. as for manually setting your runtimes, when you go into prefrences-directories. you need to switch from studio content libraries to Poser content libraries, and then select the folder that the runtime is in, not the runtime folder itself. you can also retry the search feature at this point but if it didnt work when you installed the software it might not work by manually starting it.



jjroland posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 12:43 PM

yeah I don't have vista running XP.  Think I might as well uninstall.

nm managed to figure it out, but it sure is a pita compared to posers.  Or maybe I am just more used to the other system.


I am:  aka Velocity3d 


wdupre posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 12:46 PM

Yes the PW shaders need to be reset as this version of studio uses a new version of the 3Delight renderer and the shaders needed to be recompiled. I had no problem just running the installer without uninstalling. By the way anyone who says Studio doesnt have an advanced materials room might want to take a look at what QuillofVulcan has developed. http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=61508



byAnton posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 1:27 PM

Could someone check to see if Cr2 Taper dials are supported? I know the taper dial code has been unsupported in previous versions.

 It would be appeciated. Cheers and thanks.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."


Over 100,000 Downloads....


RAMWorks posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 1:43 PM

I coudldn't find any instance of the taper dials showing up Anton.  Perhaps Will can answer that one better than I.  Sorry my friend!!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

My Freebies are HERE  


byAnton posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 1:48 PM

No problem. It's support should be added in the future though. It exists for specific reasosn and uses.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."


Over 100,000 Downloads....


cedarwolf posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 1:55 PM

Ok, I FINALLY got D|S to recognize the poser content package stuff.  I had to go and physically add the whole new runtime folder as a new folder.  I now have over 10 "runtimes" that Studio is complaining about.  giggle  Lets see what happens when we poke it with a large prop!


moogal posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 2:05 PM

Alot of complaining for a free program.  I'd hate to hear what you'd say if you'd bought Poser or something.  Are American programs that bad?  I like Japanese, German and Italian myself...


shedofjoy posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 2:07 PM

Ok i know D/S is free and i payed something like $129 for P7, BUT after i have bought the plugins for D/S wouldnt P& work out cheaper or not?????????

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.


shedofjoy posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 2:08 PM

thats P7 not P& as i said in the last post, as im currently missing spelloing version 5....lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.


RAMWorks posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 2:10 PM

> Quote - yeah I don't have vista running XP.  Think I might as well uninstall. > > nm managed to figure it out, but it sure is a pita compared to posers.  Or maybe I am just more used to the other system.

I would dearly say to you that your used to the other system and once you get the hang of how to add and subtract Runtimes you will see it's not very hard at all.  There is a tiny tiny learning curve but it's not really that much!!  😉

Here is a very easy to follow guid I set up for you and others that need the help. I know I needed when I was first getting started! 

Hope this resolves your issue.  If now not sure what's going to then hon!!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

My Freebies are HERE  


cedarwolf posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 2:15 PM

*Are American programs that bad? * No, not really, but for some reason there is a tendency to let the purchaser beta test commercial programs and use their problems and complaints to work out the bugs in the program.  I don't know if this is done in other countries, I don't purchase a lot of software that isn't already in American Standard English.  Not a predudice thing, just a "keep the money at home" thing.

I also buy local if at all possible and don't give my money to mega-corporations if I don't have to.  Small business and local business is the heart and soul of the free enterprise system and I just don't see the point of sending my hard earned dollars (US) to some faceless, "gormless" corporation working out of a holding account in the Bahamas or in another country if that same money will help feed, clothe and house one of my local folk.

I do practice "Think Local, Act Global" much of the time but there reaches a point where you have to turn that idea around...IMHO.


RAMWorks posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 2:23 PM

Attached Link: Eilir: A material Room for DAZ|Studio

Hi **shedofjoy, **I certainly do NOT want this thread going the way of what progam is more cost effective in the long run.  So please folks DON'T go there!! ![](../../mod/forumpro/art/emoticons/cursing.gif)  My thread and I want it kept civil!! Okey dokey??

OK then.... yea, if you want the extend the functionality of Studio you will need some plugins.  It just depends on what you want to do with it.  It is not set up for rigging as of yet and a Material Room plugin is being developed (I hope this guy will stick with it, he's really run into a few walls and he's sounding quite frustrated.  If anyone wants to take a stab at helping to mature the development a bit more for Eilir then please see the thread link above.... )

Better lighting then Dreamlight has some phenominal lighting solutions.  See the DAZ3D.com store and do a search for Light Dome Pro

Better Material and Surface works then see Poserworks stuff in the DAZ3D.com store.. Search for Poseworks

Scripts are many and free.  See the DAZ Freepozitory for those at the DAZ Forums: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewforum.php?f=62

For more goodies directly pertaining to DAZ Studio then see this page for more info: http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/software/studio/-/? On your left you will see a list of what's what including a link to more Studio Plugins!!

Hope that helps you out!!! 😄

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wdupre posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 3:31 PM

sorry I have no idea how to even test for taper settings, taper is usually a hidden setting. as far as what ends up being more expensive, no offense to you RAMWolff but I don't mind responding. Yes plug-ins can start costing money and it is possible by buying all of the plugins that you may actually reach the cost of buying a new copy of poser but there is one thing about the D|S system that is totally different in concept to poser, with Poser the concept is that if you want new features you wait till a new version of poser is created and purchase the whole upgrade. and you will be buying all of the features that poser has whether all of them are wanted or not. whereas with studio you are only adding the plug-ins that you actually want, no purchasing annual upgrades. so who knows what ends up being more expensive in the long run. its going to depend on the individual user. I know a few people who never upgraded poser from poser 4, certainly getting new features with either program is going to be more expensive then sticking with Poser 4(or whichever version you purchase and decide to stick with). Of course with studio you can do the same thing, some plug-ins seem to be added to the free base with major upgrades so if you simply want to wait it is possible that the plug-ins you want will be added and you won't have to pay a thing for them, of course that is up to the creator of the plug-in.



RAMWorks posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 4:06 PM

No offense taken.  I don't mind informational posts I just don't want this thread turning into a debate thread on who's got what and how much in the long run kinda stuff, that's all!!

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moogal posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 6:36 PM

It seems to me that Daz studio is a platform for viewing and using brokered content.  Things like the upcoming cloth plug-in which is free until you wish to make your own clothes lead me to this opinion.  Thing is, alot of people never make anything new.  They are, I suppose, happy with the fantasy/military/medeival/sci-fi selections already available.  These people will be using created content, but not creating it, so it makes sense to charge them this way.  Poser, OTOH, uses a different buisness model, but at their current pricing I see no reason to complain.  I suppose I paid for features I haven't used, and bug-fixes to the ones I do use.  Nothing new there.  My biggest fear was that Daz would nickel-and dime me on basic stuff (eg: unlimited undos plug-in, $19.95, Interactive camera widget, sale price $9.99, etc.) but that hasn't really happened so far.  If they can keep the plug-ins reasonably priced, and provide a useful program when devoid of plug-ins, then I'm cool with that.


shedofjoy posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 6:57 PM

i was only wondering the cost of D/S, not the "Who is better",and i don't want a debate either, i just (like everyone else) want to render as cheap as possible, and i dont mind things being free and having to pay for extras, but i do want to know is will i be living in a card board box once i start that rollercoaster ride?????
Hell, im half way there already with poser,lol.

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.


RAMWorks posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 6:59 PM

LOL... no, you can pick and choose what plugins you want or need for Studio.  You don't have to buy them all at once ya know!!! 😉

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wdupre posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 7:17 PM

Quote - i was only wondering the cost of D/S, not the "Who is better",and i don't want a debate either, i just (like everyone else) want to render as cheap as possible, and i dont mind things being free and having to pay for extras, but i do want to know is will i be living in a card board box once i start that rollercoaster ride?????
Hell, im half way there already with poser,lol.

It's really going to depend on what you need. frankly between the free base program and the freebie scripts you can get away with doing a lot with studio at no added expense other then the content you already purchase for poser. at this point studio without any add-ons is at about a level between Poser 4 and 5, meaning that it has more advanced materials and renderer then poser 4 with displacement and raytraced reflection and refraction, and there are freebies for advanced shaders with more features and hdri that goes far beyond Poser 4(there is even a freebie shader construction room availible from a 3rd party as has been mentioned earlier), but dosent have dynamics or rigging as of yet and the animation capablilities are frankly still extremely basic. I think the added PW shaders add a lot to the material and rendering options so I would add that but there isn't really much more that you actually have to have to render stills. any added plugins add features that may be useful but are not absolutely manditory to make decent images. It's all dependant on what you are looking to do with the software. I still need poser, as Studio does not yet have rigging capabilities, but if I am going to assemble and render a scene I will reach for Studio becouse I just find it much faster to work in studio, it has tools that make posing a lot faster for me, but your milage may vary as they say. at the very least it doesn't cost anything to try it.



Tomsde posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 7:24 PM

That Elixir thing is frightenly like the Poser Shader Room which I loathe and despise!  I admire you guys who can texture anything using all those weird settings plugs and node thingies! 


moogal posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 7:25 PM

Well, I think I'm happy in the sub $500 category.  I'd prefer to be in the sub $250 category, but I went and got the new Truespace again.  I really almost threw everything out last year and tried to switch to blender.  I lasted about 20 minutes before screaming like a monkey at a vending machine.  My big problem is that there's just no take-it-or-leave-it yet.  No one really talks about this, but all of these programs are serious commitments and you can't just get by with logic.  And trial and error?  Gawd, try that in zBrush.  I got the 3.0 upgrade in June for buying it at the old price in 2002.  I never could figure out what it wants from me, but the art in the galleries is sooo good.  I launched it about 2 weeks ago and had to ctrl-alt-del because I couldn't find undo or quit.  Cost is relevant when you think of it as an over-time thing.  How many plug-ins could I buy in 5 years time versus how many times you might upgrade a full version of another package?  I'm really anxious to see how this new cloth thingie turns out!


RAMWorks posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 7:34 PM

Me too!!  (cloth engine, I'm really anxious to see it do it's thang!)

I have ZB3, I don't know sticks for stones in that program but aside from a few rough moments and asking inane questions and then sitting down and reading part of the manual I got it a bit more and can't wait for my 9 days off week after this one to really sit down and do my thing with it.  Out of all the modeling and high end apps I have I can see myself doing stuff in this one and yea, it is overwhelming but you just have to say "slow down, let's learn this first and then move on to the next".  Doesn't work all the time wtih me, I'm so damned ADDA, but I'm getting better as I'm getting older!!! 😄  Don't give up.  READ THE MANUAL!! LOL

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moogal posted Mon, 30 July 2007 at 7:37 PM

I've gotten some nice shaders that weren't that complex at all.  Initially, they were essentially the same materials as my P4 materials.  Everything from the P4 room is in there, and getting them to look as they did in P4 wasn't too much work.  I just try to link everything direct and avoid the math nodes.  I'll often use copies of the same texture at different strengths to give a little more control (since it's already being referenced) over each channel. The material room is one of my favourite parts of the program.  I can't believe how long it took me to try UV scaling!


egaeus posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 8:50 AM

Can someone please explain exactly what the D|S SDK actually is or does?  The description on DAZ's site says absolutely nothing.

Mike


Tomsde posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 9:30 AM

Although I'm not sure what the initials stand for, the SDK gives developers access to Studios code so that they can create plug-ins for it.

I'm being ignored on the Daz Forum.  Can anyone tell me how this program is working with Vista?   IFf there are problems with it I want to stick to 1.5 version for the time being on my laptop.

I installed the new D/S on my XP desktop and like the new color of the intereface.  I also perfer to be able to access all the controls without having to switch rooms, so I set my settings back to the traditonal D/S layout with the new color sceme/icons.  To me this is more intuitive and easier.

Although I've been reading through these threads it's often confusing the way we jump from one topic to another, it's also difficult to sometimes separate people's opinions from actual facts.


ghonma posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 9:30 AM

It's the D|S SDK, as in Software Developement Kit.

It gives you access to the internals and code that runs D|S so that you can write plugins for D|S. Like eg if you wanted you could code a plugin that recreates the flocking behavior of birds and add it to D|S. The SDK would give you a library of functions to read various parts of the D|S scene, change it to your needs and finally send it back to the scene. And if you thought it would be a popular tool, you could also sell it.

I wish poser had something similar.


Kaji posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 10:08 AM

Quote - Well, I think I'm happy in the sub $500 category.  I'd prefer to be in the sub $250 category, but I went and got the new Truespace again.  I really almost threw everything out last year and tried to switch to blender.  I lasted about 20 minutes before screaming like a monkey at a vending machine.  My big problem is that there's just no take-it-or-leave-it yet.  No one really talks about this, but all of these programs are serious commitments and you can't just get by with logic.  And trial and error?  Gawd, try that in zBrush.  I got the 3.0 upgrade in June for buying it at the old price in 2002.  I never could figure out what it wants from me, but the art in the galleries is sooo good.  I launched it about 2 weeks ago and had to ctrl-alt-del because I couldn't find undo or quit.  Cost is relevant when you think of it as an over-time thing.  How many plug-ins could I buy in 5 years time versus how many times you might upgrade a full version of another package?  I'm really anxious to see how this new cloth thingie turns out!

You could always use Blender, POVRay, and Make Human. Those are free.



cedarwolf posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 10:49 AM

Cloth Engine??  I know I'm not too observant, but where do I find out about that thingie?


wdupre posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 11:46 AM

Quote - Can someone please explain exactly what the D|S SDK actually is or does?  The description on DAZ's site says absolutely nothing.

Mike

There are two tiers of Studio development tools, the first tier is the free scripting interface and tools this is the equivelent of Poser Python. one can use these tools to write scripts or shader implementations, the scripting language is moderately easy to learn about on a par with python. The second is the SDK or software development kit. this is to write new functions for Studio. all of the plugins for Studio were written using this kit and you can pretty much write any kind of add on with this kit assuming you are a programmer you would need to know C++ programming to get the most out of this. tom I have tested 1.7 on my Vista Laptop and it runs without a glitch for me.



RAMWorks posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 2:04 PM

Quote - Cloth Engine??  I know I'm not too observant, but where do I find out about that thingie?

Ah you were not aware that Studio will have it's very own dynamic cloth engine within the next month or so??  Yup!! 😄

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fatbuckel posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 2:12 PM

first tyme i used it it crashed opening its own file(.daz)


cedarwolf posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 2:21 PM

RAMwolf, I'll keep an eye out for the dynamic cloth engine thingie plug-in scripty doohicky.  Is it going to be....choke...Free?


RAMWorks posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 2:28 PM

The base engine will be free but DAZ does need to make SOME money off of it so there will be 2 additonal plugins available in the coming months.  One will allow you to maipulate the cloth as much as you want instead of being restricted to the defaults that are built in to the cloth.  The other will actualy allow you to make your own dynamic cloth!! 

I'm hoping when this hits Studio will finally be able to work with tiled materials at long last!!!

Fingers crossed!!

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stewer posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 4:58 PM

Quote - It's the D|S SDK, as in Software Developement Kit.

It gives you access to the internals and code that runs D|S so that you can write plugins for D|S. Like eg if you wanted you could code a plugin that recreates the flocking behavior of birds and add it to D|S. The SDK would give you a library of functions to read various parts of the D|S scene, change it to your needs and finally send it back to the scene. And if you thought it would be a popular tool, you could also sell it.

I wish poser had something similar.

Python should give you access to all those things, and you can combine it with ordinary C/C++ code (PoserPhysics is one plugin that does that). Do you have something specific in mind? If you want to do something that's not available from Python, make sure to send a feature request to e frontier.


Dajadues posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 5:41 PM

Uninstalled 1.7, didn't like it no timeline features & you need too many plugins to make it worth while for a few extra bucks you can invest in Poser instead. The only thing worth downloading was the free 3D Starter pack with figures. and it's not like anyone cares what I have to say about it anyway. (MHO)


Tomsde posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 5:51 PM

The render quality with the high end light sets in Daz Studio, I feel, is surpassing Poser right now.  I'm sure more animation features are in the wings, it will be needed for the cloth dynamics.  

I use both programs, but I feel in the coming year Daz Studio will be a force to be reconed with in the human model 3D arena.


moogal posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 6:09 PM

A few extra bucks?  You mean a few hundred, maybe.  I have Poser, and I love it.  I don't see these plug-ins that bring it anywhere near Poser's price.  Hopefully the SDK will bring some forward.  Hmmm... how much would you pay for working softbodies?  Fluids?  Atmospheres?

Poser has a $50 plug-in for physics, and many other shaders and such are commercially available.  I can see complaining about the lack of certain features, but I think this is a very good free program, even if end up becoming someone's expensive new hobby. 😉


Kaji posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 6:11 PM

Isn't Poser an expensive hobby anyways? Content isn't free... :)



Anniebel posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 6:12 PM

The general interface is much improved, but I much prefer Posers Library system. Trying to find things in DS is long & tedious, especially when a lot of branches in the menu tree are open.

Also it used to crash on my old computer after or during rendering. It still does this on my new computer with 3-4 times the memory of my old.

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moogal posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 6:14 PM

Wait a second...  Two additional plud-ing, one to let you work with cloth, one to let you make cloth...  What does the base do again?


moogal posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 6:15 PM

Quote - Isn't Poser an expensive hobby anyways? Content isn't free... :)

 

No, but Wings and blender are! :closedeyes:


Kaji posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 6:18 PM

Quote - > Quote - Isn't Poser an expensive hobby anyways? Content isn't free... :)

 

No, but Wings and blender are! :closedeyes:

That's true, but how many people make their own stuff?



moogal posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 6:36 PM

I really don't know how many people make their own stuff.  I know that I've made things I couldn't find a few times, and used things I found that I could have just as easily made.  I suppose the common wisdom is that people who make their own stuff do it in other programs, only working in Poser or Studio if they're in the content biz.  I have a hard time believing there aren't at least a few Poser users who model everything themselves and neither buy, sell, or share content.  If I can ever find the time to get the hang of zBrush, maybe I'll be in that category someday.  If Truespace, blender or Studio don't lure me away, and I'm not expecting anything to change in that area any time soon.

For being supposed entry level programs, it's especially hard to make your own stuff in Poser or Studio, IMHO.  Everyone seems to use a handful of smaller tools in addition to or even instead of the provided rigging tools.  What does that point to?


Kaji posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 6:53 PM

Well, Poser's original function was for artists to not have to use studio models.

I wish that Poser had some sort of modeling capability in it... maybe even including something like Virtual Fashion.

I'm trying to break away from Poser use myself and get into Cinema and ZBrush :)



Penguinisto posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 9:07 PM

Quote - I see that they give away the 3D Starter Pack too for free, wonder if its for Studio or Poser?

Doesn't matter - D|S will use either one :)> Quote - I'm sticking to Poser. I find the DS interface too confusing. Eww.

So change it (yes, you can...)> Quote - Nope, not that I know of but with the SDK on sale for $99.00 (regularly $1000.00) I'm sure someone may take a stab at doing Python for Studio if it's even possible. Considering that DAZ was considering using Python in the beginniing and I believe that there was a conflict with using the open sourced QT libraries that prompted them to take a different direction all together. But you never know!!!

Since DAZ|Script is ECMA-compliant, I'm sure it wouldn't take much to build in direct Python support (or to just use DAZ|Script, since it's fairly easy to translate to). OTOH, one couldn't simply drop-in Poser Python scripts, if that's what you're thinking, at least not w/o a translation layer of sorts. The other question ab't why Python didn't get used had nothing to do w/ Qt, as someone else aptly covered (After all, KDE on Linux is written in Qt, and Python works just fine in there).> Quote - Are you absolutely positive about the $99 for the D|S SDK? Won't that make the other developers a bit peeved after paying $1000 for it?

Nope - the dough IIRC gets refunded after selling x amount of stuff through the DAZ Store. ...reading further down the thread... be back in a few. /P


Penguinisto posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 9:20 PM

Quote - No problem. It's support should be added in the future though. It exists for specific reasosn and uses.

I'm kind of curious - what did the taper dial really do aside from traverse the hierarchy and, well, taper something (IIRC - haven't used it in years). > Quote - Python should give you access to all those things, and you can combine it with ordinary C/C++ code (PoserPhysics is one plugin that does that). Do you have something specific in mind? If you want to do something that's not available from Python, make sure to send a feature request to e frontier.

I want a Linux port! Oh, hehe - sorry... couldn't resist. You're right; Poser's Python does reach pretty deep in there. OTOH, I gotta question - and set aside me for a minute here. Thing is, Poser could use an SDK. Seriously, how d'ya do a combination of Python and C/C++ without adding extra cycles? Doesn't matter what kind of proggie we're talking here: Compiled code will almost always run hella faster than just scripts, and when you're banging algorithms about with a couple dozen thousand vertices, the differences tend to pile up. Even off-loading the more burdensome loads onto an external (faster) binary still requires the translation layer, and startup time, etc. Then there's the whole external proggie vs. native hooks that a compiled plugin enjoys. I guess what I'm getting at is, a full-on SDK for Poser (w/o a big pricetag) would be kind of useful, y'know? Just my two cents is all, and I won't bug you further ab't it, I promise. /P


mapps posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 10:06 PM

Ya Studio 1.7 is very cool but after installing it I can't get poser 7 to work no mater what I do. Even uninstalling Studio and reinstalling poser didn't work. I am reay sorry I installed Studio 1.7. If you are running Poser 7 be careful installin 1.7 it might happen to you too. I have sent a message to Studio tech support hope to hear from them soon.


rcr62 posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 11:04 PM

Quote - > Quote - They didn't say anything about Cinema on the Collada front page... so I assume it's either buried or we're just left out in the dark?

Unfortunately C4D still hasn't implemented Collada, but believe me I am going to be hounding Maxon about that at siggraph ;)

 

Pssstttt . . . . bug the Newtek guys too! ;)

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rcr62 posted Tue, 31 July 2007 at 11:06 PM

Quote - Ya Studio 1.7 is very cool but after installing it I can't get poser 7 to work no mater what I do. Even uninstalling Studio and reinstalling poser didn't work. I am reay sorry I installed Studio 1.7. If you are running Poser 7 be careful installin 1.7 it might happen to you too. I have sent a message to Studio tech support hope to hear from them soon.

  

Works fine here

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." -Desmond Tutu


ghonma posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 12:03 AM

Quote - Seriously, how d'ya do a combination of Python and C/C++ without adding extra cycles?

Which is kinda my beef as well. Python just isn't practical for a lot of things. Like say if i wanted to write a better joint system or a more advanced posing interface (both of which are much needed in poser), i cant expect the user to wait while the script precalcs the interaction or something. Or jumps to an external app that is outside poser. It has to be done near realtime within the GUI, and that requires compiled code with direct access to Poser's API.

And since i'm hoping, I also want them to adopt Renderman's sl language for custom shaders in firefly. That is supported by most renderman compliant renderers and there is no reason firefly shoudn't.


RAMWorks posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 12:04 AM

OK guys. I didn't want this thread to turn into a debate about what program is better.  I see a bit of that trickleing in here and there.  This is a discussion about the DAZ Studio release.  If you dont' like the program then don't post here! 😉

Moogal, the dynamic cloth engine is basic but will still allow one to fully pose and render, standing, sitting, animation and the like but adding things like wind effects and other functions will be available in the first of the 2 new plugins.  Then there is the 2nd plugin that will allow for clothing creation, I'm guessing directly in DAZ Studio.  I think that's one of the reasons for the new tabbed rooms as there will be a need for the extra room so the end user can "spread out" if need be.   That's a plus with the rooms.  Studio is set up to allow each room to be set up individually.  So no one room need be the same as any other room unless you so desire.  😉

PS: I'm not being an ass hole about my statement above but I started this thread and I asked nicely at the beginning for this conversation NOT to devolve into a debate about who's got more their money.  So please respect my wishes and if need be start your own thread if you so desire and have at it but please not here.  Thanks! 😄 

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stewer posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 2:10 AM

Attached Link: http://docs.python.org/api/api.html

> Quote - Seriously, how d'ya do a combination of Python and C/C++ without adding extra cycles? Doesn't matter what kind of proggie we're talking here: Compiled code will almost always run hella faster than just scripts, and when you're banging algorithms about with a couple dozen thousand vertices, the differences tend to pile up.

Here's a secret: Python code gets compiled. If you've seen .pyc files around, this is compiled Python bytecode that doesn't need to be parsed any more. Granted, it's not as fast as optimized C, but it's pretty fast. > Quote - Even off-loading the more burdensome loads onto an external (faster) binary still requires the translation layer, and startup time, etc. Then there's the whole external proggie vs. native hooks that a compiled plugin enjoys.

There is no need for an external program. If you turn a C or C++ library to a Python extension, it runs in the same address space and same process as Poser itself. Using a scripting language to connect C++ modules is not uncommon: if you examine a Maya installation, you'll notice that it's using MEL for a lot of the UI. > Quote - I guess what I'm getting at is, a full-on SDK for Poser (w/o a big pricetag) would be kind of useful, y'know?

I do agree that a plain C++ SDK would be convenient for those who don't want to learn Python or make a wrapper for C++ code (although its ridiculously simple with SWIG). My point is though that Python is faster than probably most people think it is and it's capable of many things. for a C++ SDK, I can only recommend sending an email to e frontier, including details about what killer plugins you would write if such an SDK were available. If there are enough requests for it, you never know. In any case...this is probably the wrong thread to go further into detail about this - it's about DAZ Studio, so for further discussion we should take this to a new thread if not the Python forum.


Penguinisto posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 2:28 AM

Quote - In any case...this is probably the wrong thread to go further into detail about this - it's about DAZ Studio, so for further discussion we should take this to a new thread if not the Python forum.

Fair 'nuff... I knew Python could be compiled, just never saw it in action. (...as long as it isn't as slow on load as compiled Java is --see also Open Office-- it could be useful.) I'll be a pest ab't it in the technical forum when I finally get off my butt and scrounge enough time to sit down w/ it :) Thx, /P


byAnton posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 3:25 AM

Quote - Tom Wrote: I'm kind of curious - what did the taper dial really do aside from traverse the hierarchy and, well, taper something.

Okay not trying to be a smart ass, but not seeing the usefulness of Taper, is a bit like not seeing the usefullness of "Scale"(which just scales) or "Point At"(which just points at). :)

Taper, being one of the 5 scale dials, has the unique attribute of scaling one end while fading off. Obviously, unless the figure, whether human, animal, mechanical or otherwise, is set up for proper scaling, the dial isn't going to be fuctional.

However, I'll list some simple examples of it's uses.

You can use it on humans get more complex shapes to the head, teeth, tongue, finger tips, etc. It can be used on eyes to just shrink the iris or on horns, etc for shaping without morphs.

In clothing, it can be used to point shoes, flair skirts and cuffs, widen/loosen boots, heels, etc etc etc.

On animals, it can be used to fine tune and customize the subtle shapes of snouts, ears, tails, wings, hooves, etc etc, etc, etc

On enviornmental cr2 based figures, it can be used for more abstract/toonish proportions along buildings, railings, staircases, etc etc etc.

On mechanics, it can be used to re-aligns mechanical parts or be animated for various recoil effects.

On particle based figures it can be used and animated for barrel flash, stobe, etc.

On hair, it can resize bangs, reshape lengths, flair strandsor locks, puff ponytails, etc etc etc

... all without the burden of unneccesary non-linear morphs... or more burdensome magnets.

So yes it tapers, :) thus the name, and perhaps it is easy to dismiss something easily when so few figures have ever been set up for proper scaling.

However, if we start picking and choosing to dismiss Poser code, and then down the road, it is found to be useful, people will be stuck with legacy issues and compatibility limitaions. Daz has never really taken scaling seriously, so I can see why they probably don't understand the practical uses of a dial that allows transition scaling. :)

Just one dial anyhoo. They should just write it in to be thorough and complete. I think not adding it was just an oversight really.

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byAnton posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 3:27 AM

Does wonders on plants cr2's. Didn't mean to leave out our leafy friends. :)

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mapps posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 6:40 AM

Ya seems to be just me, after 8 hours of messing eith the PC i still can't get poser to work anymore. I've even uninstalled all the 3D stuff and reinstall poser to no avail.


Penguinisto posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 9:20 AM

Quote - > Quote - Tom Wrote: I'm kind of curious - what did the taper dial really do aside from traverse the hierarchy and, well, taper something.

Okay not trying to be a smart ass, but not seeing the usefulness of Taper, is a bit like not seeing the usefullness of "Scale"(which just scales) or "Point At"(which just points at). :)

No worries - "point at" is useful for things like eyes, cameras, lights... and it doesn't deform anything. "Scale" is great (IMHO) for tweaking clothing (either type), and for touching up those bits of figure that don't have interaction problems w/ adjoining conformed mesh, and great for props when done in moderation. I'm just curious as to how Taper coule be useful. Good examples, BTW. > Quote - So yes it tapers, :) thus the name, and perhaps it is easy to dismiss something easily when so few figures have ever been set up for proper scaling.

I'm thinking it's due to burden vs. benefit, mostly. > Quote - However, if we start picking and choosing to dismiss Poser code, and then down the road, it is found to be useful, people will be stuck with legacy issues and compatibility limitaions. Daz has never really taken scaling seriously, so I can see why they probably don't understand the practical uses of a dial that allows transition scaling. :)

Prolly because linear scaling can be done pretty quickly and easily in D-Form (albeit not as easily as spinning a dial, but...) In D|S, there isn't the lag that you normally get with magnets, so there really isn't any penalty for using one to do it (plus you can tweak the results much easier). Just a guess, though. As for what bits to leave in or out as per Poser code, well... D|S isn't Poser; it just happens to load and run figures built for Poser, and has its own setup. If enough people shift to it over time, then there would be no point in trying to stay within Poser's limits. While I'm not saying that Taper is a limitation per se, it does illustrate something programmers have to deal with any time they write a new version of anything: Cruft. Little-used and/or little-implemented features are a pain to maintain or keep as priority sometimes when you're busy shifting how everything behaves underneath the app. Sure, it sucks that a certain number of folks can no longer use a given feature, but if it's obscure anyway, and has functionality that can be handled else-wise (in this case by D-Form), then why? Microsoft Windows Vista is currently suffering under a ton of bloat and under high hardware requirements because of this principle in extremis, where Microsoft is trying to keep every little API and function it has in Windows, while at the same time trying to simultaneously add new features, modernize what's underneath, and secure the thing. In the end, they got a product that is still incompatible with the majority of 3rd-party apps, has not much more security than XP, and weighs in at a metric ton or so. I would expect that Poser will have to go through some of these changes too at some point, or end up like Vista. A development team can only rely on Moore's Law for only so long, y'know. There comes a point in any app or OS's life where the bloat will begin to show, and that something, somewhere, is going to have to give. Apple had to go through this when it went from MacOS to OSX... five years later, it (IMHO) was the right thing to do for them. /P


RAMWorks posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 11:22 AM

Quote - > Quote - Tom Wrote: I'm kind of curious - what did the taper dial really do aside from traverse the hierarchy and, well, taper something.

Okay not trying to be a smart ass, but not seeing the usefulness of Taper, is a bit like not seeing the usefullness of "Scale"(which just scales) or "Point At"(which just points at). :)

Taper, being one of the 5 scale dials, has the unique attribute of scaling one end while fading off. Obviously, unless the figure, whether human, animal, mechanical or otherwise, is set up for proper scaling, the dial isn't going to be fuctional.

However, I'll list some simple examples of it's uses.

You can use it on humans get more complex shapes to the head, teeth, tongue, finger tips, etc. It can be used on eyes to just shrink the iris or on horns, etc for shaping without morphs.

In clothing, it can be used to point shoes, flair skirts and cuffs, widen/loosen boots, heels, etc etc etc.

On animals, it can be used to fine tune and customize the subtle shapes of snouts, ears, tails, wings, hooves, etc etc, etc, etc

On enviornmental cr2 based figures, it can be used for more abstract/toonish proportions along buildings, railings, staircases, etc etc etc.

On mechanics, it can be used to re-aligns mechanical parts or be animated for various recoil effects.

On particle based figures it can be used and animated for barrel flash, stobe, etc.

On hair, it can resize bangs, reshape lengths, flair strandsor locks, puff ponytails, etc etc etc

... all without the burden of unneccesary non-linear morphs... or more burdensome magnets.

So yes it tapers, :) thus the name, and perhaps it is easy to dismiss something easily when so few figures have ever been set up for proper scaling.

However, if we start picking and choosing to dismiss Poser code, and then down the road, it is found to be useful, people will be stuck with legacy issues and compatibility limitaions. Daz has never really taken scaling seriously, so I can see why they probably don't understand the practical uses of a dial that allows transition scaling. :)

Just one dial anyhoo. They should just write it in to be thorough and complete. I think not adding it was just an oversight really.

Well then I would for SURE love to see Studio support taper then.  Mind if I use your examples for my plea in the bug reporting area where there is a feature request option to choose Anton??  You have them all nailed and you said it best!!  I won't quote you and use your name but the list is really important for the arguement to be justified!!!

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mapps posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 11:32 AM

I find taper most useful on wrists ancles, elbows etc when you need to see part of the limb but are getting pokethrough on the concealed end. Such as the knee is sticking out but the ancle is visible taper is great to shrink the knee because you can't just hide the shin/knee. Other than that I have never used it much but for that alone I have always found it usefull.


RAMWorks posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 11:39 AM

There is an issue in Studio where Apollo's eyes can not be resized properly because of the lack of Taper being present.  So it would come in handy for that most of all for my needs of such a thing being present!!

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Conniekat8 posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 12:24 PM

I can't wait to try the new studio. :)  I often switch between the two.

If I may digress into a quick studio to poser question... I thought I saw a utility that makes it possible to transfer a pose from studio to Poser? Or any studio files back to poser...
I mich prefer to do posing in studio, because it allows you to select multiple body parts. Awesome for hand grips, or torso twists!
I'm drawing a tital blank on this issue.

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RAMWorks posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 12:36 PM

Attached Link: Index of free DAZ|Studio scripts

There is a few scripts that can handle this sort of stuff Con.  

One is called the Poser Format Exporter.  You can find it on the linked page above along with all the other fabulous scripts for Studio!!  Not sure if Richard's updated it in a while but it looks pretty thorough!!

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Conniekat8 posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 12:45 PM

Awsome! Thankees for that info RAMWolffee :)

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RAMWorks posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 12:53 PM

Yer Welcome!!

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byAnton posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 4:55 PM

Just be be clear, Apollo's eyes scale fine. On the eyes Taper was used to scale the iris larger and smaller. No huge loss in Studio.


That is fine Richard. You can use those examples. I am sure they already have read this thread but go fot it.

If Studio does turn out to be to porting tool of choice to other apps like Carrara, Bryce, etc, and it doesn't support Taper, I would be concerned about that ability being lost to those other apps too, especially apps being designed by Daz.

Studio isn't Poser. True. But most definately is the Poser file format. Either support the cr2 format completely, or do something original. Just because Daz doesn't use the Taper code does not mean they should make that decision for those who know how.

In reality I think they just never realized it was useful because they don't use the figures they make, V4 being the first of their figures, in 12 years and as many figures, that can even begin to scale properly.

Okay that is my pitch for Taper support. Either they will or they won't.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
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Tomsde posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 5:30 PM

Annibel, if you buy the Finder plug-in for Sudio things are much easier to find than in Poser.  In fact I open Daz Studio frequently to search for content using finder.  It's worth it's weight in GOLD!


Penguinisto posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 8:42 PM

Quote - Studio isn't Poser. True. But most definately is the Poser file format.

True, which is why *.daz is the native format in D|S :) > Quote - Either support the cr2 format completely, or do something original. Just because Daz doesn't use the Taper code does not mean they should make that decision for those who know how.

Perhaps, but it got me to thinking: Very few 3rd-party proggies support the .cr2 format fully in the first place. Not talking about plugins or direct add-ons, but external proggies, like Vue, Bryce, things like that. Transposer > Carrara I think came the closest. I'm thinking it's most likely because Poser is closed-source (and to be honest, so is D|S). Because of this, how exactly Poser handles the morph/dial and translates the results is largely a secret - at least programmatically. Unless you call it directly in Poser.exe/.app (say, via Python), you won't replicate the results perfectly, if at all. Unless the function is vital, it is far easier/safer to leave a feature out than to throw a ton of time and cash at emulating it - especially if the results are at best not going to be perfect, IM(Professional)O. > Quote - Either they will or they won't.

Pretty much. /P


byAnton posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 9:04 PM

***Quote - Very few 3rd-party proggies support the .cr2 format fully in the first place. ***

But very few programs are seeking from scratch to emulate Poser to the extent Studio has.

Quote - Because of this, how exactly Poser handles the morph/dial and translates the results is largely a secret - at least programmatically.

*** ***Not really. They already cracked everything else in the cr2 and duplicated it's fuction and performance. I doubt there is anything dubious about "taper".

***Quote - Unless you call it directly in Poser.exe/.app (say, via Python), you won't replicate the results perfectly, if at all. ***

*** ***
Tom think about it. If that was true, none of these pose packs and character packs would work. Of course the tracking is plottable. Once you know what off and what 100% is, it is easy to define all the percentages in between.

Quote - Unless the function is vital, it is far easier/safer to leave a feature out than to throw a ton of time and cash at emulating it - especially if the results are at best not going to be perfect

Well techically "Scale" can be achieved with x.y.z scale so it is even less vital than taper, being it is completely reduntant. After 5 years and what I am sure is over a million in expense, I don;t think supporting "taper" is going to bring the company down financially.

They already have an example of how it works so ditching it's emulation, while choosing the emulate the rest of the cr2 makes it likely they either forgot or foolishly have dismissed it's use.  I can't see anything "unsafe" or baffling about "Taper".

There is no reason the results can't be emulated just as well as they did with Scale, Xscale, Yscale, Zscale, PointAt, Joints, etc, etc, etc.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."


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RAMWorks posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 11:13 PM

Thanks Anton for permission.  I just wanted you to know I was interested in using your words but not your name so as to not make anyone uncomfortable.  It's funny, they must really be gearing up quickly for this release that contains the dynamics engine in it.  I had 2 issues resolved, one of them saying that the issue that I was having fully using RKane's (Roberts) add on morph pack for Apollo but was not showing up correctly in Studio has supposedly been resolved (we shall see) but I also got on Assigned and it's the taper dial issue I requested be fixed or implemented back in April (sheesh, how time fly's!)  so I'll just follow it up with this information to make sure they know I'm watching with anticipation!! LOL  Like that will make any difference!! LOL

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Penguinisto posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 11:33 PM

Quote - But very few programs are seeking from scratch to emulate Poser to the extent Studio has.

IIRC, Poser is only a starting point due to existing inventory. If you look at the rest of what DAZ bought up lately: Carrara & Hexagon, Bryce, etc etc... all signs point to independence. > Quote - Not really. They already cracked everything else in the cr2 and duplicated it's fuction and performance. I doubt there is anything dubious about "taper".

I'm not sure about that... The .cr2 is in ASCII and most (not all) of its functionality is fairly easy to grok (not easy to code, but easy to understand), and its various functions can be tested against. As an example you've mentioned yourself, scale is pretty easy to do. Quaternion Rotations (joints and such) are a well-defined mathematical expression. It's the out-of-the-way stuff that gets to be a pain. > Quote - Tom think about it. If that was true, none of these pose packs and character packs would work. Of course the tracking is plottable. Once you know what off and what 100% is, it is easy to define all the percentages in between.

Sure, if all you're doing is importation. Going the other way as well, is where things get ugly. > Quote - > Quote - Unless the function is vital, it is far easier/safer to leave a feature out than to throw a ton of time and cash at emulating it - especially if the results are at best not going to be perfect

Well techically "Scale" can be achieved with x.y.z scale so it is even less vital than taper, being it is completely reduntant. After 5 years and what I am sure is over a million in expense, I don;t think supporting "taper" is going to bring the company down financially.

I doubt it by itself would either, but look at the whole of what I wrote there. Wait - it's prolly not well-defined, my apologies. I'll expose it from a different angle: if it is easy to figure out, okay... chuck it in. If it's not-so-easy, then you have a decision: is it worth doing priority-wise, or not? Cost vs. Benefit starts kicking in at that point. > Quote - There is no reason the results can't be emulated just as well as they did with Scale, Xscale, Yscale, Zscale, PointAt, Joints, etc, etc, etc.

It can be emulated (I can almost construct the chain in my head as I type this). That said, can that emulation be exportable (so that it works as predicted in Poser) as well as importable? Me, I don't mind either way... I'm still waiting for a native Linux port of it (don't ask - long story :) ). OTOH, I'm just pointing out the ugly programmatical aspects that come up. Not impossible, but when you're paying for code-monkey time at the rates that DAZ pays 'em, that time gets precious indeed. /P


RAMWorks posted Wed, 01 August 2007 at 11:42 PM

if you can emulate then write us a script that can access that portion of the cr2 and translate it for us!! LOL 

PURTY PLEASE!! (in the voice of Elmer Fud)

I just reopened the issue as it was NO WHERE to be found in the date base after it was supposedly assigned to Nathan Blunt.  So I resubmittd and copy pasted your reasons, Anton, into the text area and gave a brief reason WHY I was leaving such a long list and for them to please consider this a bit more carefully.  I also asked why the newly assigned issue seemed to have been dropped, nowhere to found in the data base, as least the stuff I can see there.

We shall see said the blind poet to the deaf mute!!

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Penguinisto posted Thu, 02 August 2007 at 9:31 AM

Quote - if you can emulate then write us a script that can access that portion of the cr2 and translate it for us!! LOL 

I wouldn't mind, but personally, I'd rather do it as a compiled plugin. Much faster that way. ...well, after I get a few bits and bobs that I've been dying to do :) . For instance, I'm beating up on a means of real-time deformation on soft objects once a harder object collides against it (currently half done, but it works) and a second one which DAZ already has a chunk of code-wise considering how long ago I started on it (concerning clothing and collision detection between cloth and underlying figure*), but any further work on my part there looks to be made redundant pretty soon now. * nope - can't claim it beyond possible contribution; others were working on it --even back then-- as well. I think I know what route(s) they finally went with to get it done, though. /P


cuba posted Thu, 02 August 2007 at 3:36 PM

Just a little tip to those who don't like the tree structure of the libraries: You can switch to a list structure that's more like Poser's, only better.

Click the little arrow pointing right, next to the content tab and select "View folders as list". I really don't understand why this is not the default because it is so much better and easier to use imo.


Ghostofmacbeth posted Thu, 02 August 2007 at 4:07 PM

The thing about the DAZ libraries that bugs me is the lack of a scrolly arrow like Poser has ... It just involves too much back buttoning to get anywhere and too much scrolling to find the right listing.



maclean posted Thu, 02 August 2007 at 4:46 PM

What 'scrolly arrow' is that, GoM? The one down the side? DS has that, plus mouse-wheel scroll. You can also hit Home or End to go to top/bottom of a library folder. You've got back/forward/up buttons at the top, and you can use small icons for less scrolling, if your libraries have tons of stuff in them. Not sure what else they could add, to tell the truth.

Re the list structure - As default? Well, not for me, thanks. I always set mine to tree. But everyone's different.

mac


Penguinisto posted Thu, 02 August 2007 at 6:05 PM

Quote -
Re the list structure - As default? Well, not for me, thanks. I always set mine to tree.

I use the List view, but owning a Macintosh will do that to a guy... makes an OSX user feel right at home that way (Also notice that the tree view emulates Windows' left-hand "Explorer" bar? It's sort of why they were done-up like they were, so that it wouldn't look much different from whatever default file-poking-around layout that a user would normally be accustomed to).

/P


Ghostofmacbeth posted Thu, 02 August 2007 at 10:33 PM

This is what I mean that I can't do without. I find the library in DAZ Studio really lacks this. Part of that is because this is just about all I use but part of it is that I hate going back, back, back, forward, back scroll, back, etc. The home and end don't seem to work for me either.

I like this about Poser 6 though. Earlier ones too, I think.



maclean posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 4:34 AM

Right, I see what you're saying, GoM. It could be an interesting addition to DS, although to be honest, it's pretty similar to the list view. You could always request it in the tracker.

Re Home/End - They should work inside any content folder, assuming the folder itself is in focus. If the focus is on the folder list above, it'll still work, but go to the 1st/last folders. 

Does it work for you in any other panes? Try expanding a figure in the scene pane. Home/End should take you to the top/bottom of the hierarchy. Same thing in Surfaces.

mac


Ghostofmacbeth posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 7:56 AM

It is similar to the list view but it is just quicker. My biggest gripe is going from poses to characters (and scrolling) to poses (and scrolling) and then back to face (and scrolling) or something. It just is ponderous. Repeat that for clothes (minus the face part) and it just eats up time and adds to my frustration. Plus the scrolling grabber is more finicky since it is small makes it even more of a challenge.

The back and forward and scroll thing just is so much slower for me. I am not sure why the home and end didn't work last night but it works today.



wdupre posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 11:50 AM

well a lot of that scrolling back and fourth is becouse you are using those runtimes for poser as well as studio which limits how you can arrange your content. if for example you put all of your V4 clothing directly under v4 in the library and all of the materials for that clothing directly under that, and things like that you would find using the studio library system a lot faster.



Ghostofmacbeth posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 12:40 PM

Yeah but I don't have anything in the Content :) Whatever the default is is pretty much what I have. Then you just have to go back and forth a lot (which is annoying on it's own).



pzrite posted Mon, 06 August 2007 at 10:18 AM

Well last night I had a "defining moment".  As I already said, I've been using Poser since day one and I've been a loyal customer, even when others ranted and complained, I patiently continued to stick with it.  But last night after a horribly frustrating session of trying to work with 4 figures inside a hallway set, I said "ENOUGH!"

I've dabbled with D|S for a few weeks now, but not really doing any serious work with it.  That changed last night, I loaded the scene I was having so much trouble with from Poser and got the job done within 10 minutes!

I am astounded at how much easier D|S is to work with.
I've jumped ship.  I've switched sides.  I'm playing for the other team now! (no sexual referenced intended) :)

Is anyone else here jazzed as I am?  Has anyone else seen the light and not looking back?
(yes exporting to other software would be nice, but my frustration factor went from 10 to 0 in posing and setting up scenes)


RAMWorks posted Mon, 06 August 2007 at 12:41 PM

Welcome aboard!! 😄  Not to say Poser doesn't have it's uses in my arsenal but with the soon to come Carrara 6 I don't think I'll even need it for the few little things I was using it for.  I think someones even working on an export as cr2 script if I'm not mistaken.  So, yea... end of an era for me too it seems.  Perhaps I'll upgrade with version 8, perhaps not! 

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FutureFantasyDesign posted Mon, 06 August 2007 at 8:21 PM

JeeZ! Just when I think I understand all the ins and outs of Poser(6.& 7) Now I don't know what to think! I have learned more from reading this thread about Poser, then I ever thought I knew. But Dang if D/S isn't a bitch to nail down. Any advice on how to do the cross over just to try it out? When I switched fro PSP to PS, it took 2 long years to even understand the locations of the common tools! Duh! I'm not saying I am a blond or anything.... But I get bummed thinking that all my hard work is about to go back to Newbie square one! *sigh....

Oh BTW...can someone tell me the size limit of D/S? I normally render in an extremely large format for art. 7000x4600, 350 DPI Can D/S handle that?

 

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pzrite posted Mon, 06 August 2007 at 8:26 PM

Quote - JeeZ! Just when I think I understand all the ins and outs of Poser(6.& 7) Now I don't know what to think! I have learned more from reading this thread about Poser, then I ever thought I knew. But Dang if D/S isn't a bitch to nail down. Any advice on how to do the cross over just to try it out? When I switched fro PSP to PS, it took 2 long years to even understand the locations of the common tools! Duh! I'm not saying I am a blond or anything.... But I get bummed thinking that all my hard work is about to go back to Newbie square one! *sigh....

Oh BTW...can someone tell me the size limit of D/S? I normally render in an extremely large format for art. 7000x4600, 350 DPI Can D/S handle that?

 Ariana

 

I was pretty confused at first too.  
Two things helped me.  I downloaded the PDF manual, printed it off and started reading it.
And secondly, I had a specific project I wanted to get done, so that helped me figure out a lot of the functions of D|S with a specific goal in mind (mostly by trial and error)

IMHO, it's definetly worth taking the time to learn.  The posing features alone have already saved me hours of frustration.... and many grey hairs!


Conniekat8 posted Thu, 16 August 2007 at 10:20 PM

Wow, I saw daz studio on http://www.download.com/DAZ-Studio/3000-6677_4-10717524.html?tag=lst-0-5   38,000 downloads!  not too bad.

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wdupre posted Fri, 17 August 2007 at 1:56 AM

Don't forget the Mac users: 5888 :P



Ghostofmacbeth posted Sun, 19 August 2007 at 6:21 PM

Quote - Don't forget the Mac users: 5888 :P

I think a lot of that is because not a lot of Mac users go there as a general habit.



Conniekat8 posted Sun, 19 August 2007 at 6:53 PM

All those dl's are from download.com, which I think is a bit of a roundabout way of getting daz studio. I wonder how many people downloaded it from DAZ!
Unless DAZ download goes through them too - if it does, I didn't notice.

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wdupre posted Sun, 19 August 2007 at 6:58 PM

yes all new downloads of 1.7 go through Download.com, the links in the daz store point to that site. I wasn't saying anything negitive about mac users, just that that wasn't added into the numbers that Conniekat8 posted, though Im sure you are right that it is slightly skewed becouse more PC users are probably trying it for the first time after stumbling over it on Download.com