dphoadley opened this issue on Aug 03, 2007 · 72 posts
dphoadley posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 4:13 AM
dphoadley posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 4:14 AM
dphoadley posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 4:16 AM
dphoadley posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 4:17 AM
dphoadley posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 4:18 AM
dphoadley posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 4:23 AM
Fyrene posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 4:42 AM
I looked at the images for Mariny's texture on his/her website and that same darkness is on the knees. I dont think its the model. Its the texture itself.
http://www.marianns-world.com/adela_free.htm
As for the nipples on Pankos texture, I couldnt find it in freestuff, but I suspect again, its not the model. It might be the texture was created for large nipples?? Just a guess.
Fy
dphoadley posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 4:59 AM
Attached Link: Vietcong Linh - for V3
Panko's Viet Cong V3 and M3 characters and textures can be found here. It amy be that the ultimate fault lies with the textures themselve, in which case I've spent an awful lot of time chasing my tail around in a circle. Hopefull the end results will justify the effort. DPH
ghelmer posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 7:49 AM
Oooooooooh!!!! I'd love a swing at this David!!! Trying some of my favorite V3 tex's on V4 would be a great excuse to actually using V4!!!!
TTYL cuz TGIF!!!!!
Gerard
The GR00VY GH0ULIE!
You are pure, you are snow
We are the useless sluts that they mould
Rock n roll is our epiphany
Culture, alienation, boredom and despair
dphoadley posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 8:14 AM
If any of you are serious, then site mail me. Since the UTC Face plugin announcement, I've noticed an appreciable drop in interest in my remap. I'm seriously considering dropping the project, as a lot of work in a figure I really don't like.
DPH
lululee posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 10:38 AM
I hope you continue with this project. You have done an excellent job with this and put a huge amount of work into it. I am not familiar with the new UTC plugin but my experience with the past plugins was a very decreased quality in the textures. Far less quality than the few glitches you have left to refine. I do hope you continue. You are so close to completion.
cheerio
lululee
cyberscape posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 10:39 AM
I'd offer to help (for a free copy
)but, I know very little about remapping so I doubt that I could give any good suggestions or solutions. In fact, the only thing that I can come up with for the nipple problem would be to apply Snowsultan's V3 template to your VVic4V3 and see how close things line up. Then again, maybe you've been doing that all along? Like I said, I know nothing about UV mapping...
As for dropping the whole project... don't, unless you're really stuck! Having more than just the UTC for this makes for better variety in the MP! ...and that's ALWAYS good
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yungturk39 posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 10:46 AM
Hmm...I guess all this proves is not all textures are created equal. I'd be happy to make her run the gamut of the textures I have, to see what works and what doesn't. Unfortunately, I don't even know how to use UV mapper for anything except the few freebies I've downloaded...and those came with step-by-step instructions.
Whatever you do, don't just trash this thing. I'll give you something for it.
dphoadley posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 10:51 AM
Attached Link: Vic4.1's Nude Remapped Body
See my render in my gallery (Nudity), and tell me wht you honestly think. DPH
cyberscape posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 11:41 AM
Excluding the areas that you mentioned, this looks just as good as what the UTC can offer. Seriously! I've used the UTC for Aiko3 and can tell you for sure that it's not perfect! (her buttcheeks don't always line up
....hate it when that happens)
Again, keep at it Dave! Don't worry too much about the response here. If only one person buys this, then you've accomplished something. Keep in mind all the lurkers here who never say anything. Ya never know, they might end up being customers too! As for any naysayers, screw 'em! Everybody has an opinion and they are just that....opinions! They aren't right or wrong.
Besides, V4 may end up growing on you down the road and this remapped version will at least come in handy for you if no one else.
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AMD FX-9590 4.7ghz 8-core, 32gb of RAM, Win7 64bit, nVidia GeForce GTX 760
PoserPro2012, Photoshop CS4 and Magix Music Maker
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...and when the day is dawning...I have to say goodbye...a last look back into...your broken eyes.
dorelia posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 12:30 PM
nickedshield posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 1:20 PM
From what I saw from your post I don't see anything glaringly wrong. The area of the knees you are concerned with, really study the human anatomy and you will find the knees can have natural roughness which will affect the texture. Same for the nipple. As long as the textures are good in the default body shape that's all you can hope for because as soon as a person changes the shape the texture will change to some degree. And I totally agree with the others, keep at the project.
I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.
dorelia posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 1:39 PM
dorelia posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 2:01 PM
jeffg3 posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 3:46 PM
**dphoadley,
** I've PMed you.
Fisty posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 5:32 PM
Almost all of the texture's I seen made for V4 the aerola's were too big... I think it's just the figure, I wouldn't worry about it.
And the knees look fine, not perfect but good enough. =)
xantor posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 5:41 PM
It looks very good.
Couldn`t you use the texture templates for v3 or the snowsultan templates to check that the new mapping is correct?
jjroland posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 5:52 PM
*"Almost all of the texture's I seen made for V4 the aerola's were too big... "
*100% agreed. They are all either too big or burgandy or deep brown. V4 texture offerings are like a ghastly nipple convention. Oddly enough seein how I'm female makes me always notice a decent set of nipples on something.
Just to add to this, that is the one and only reason why I wont purchase textures that don't show everything, I'm certain I've got a 99% chance of opening it up to find saucer nipples.
I am: aka Velocity3d
Anniebel posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 6:09 PM
The problem you are having with the nipples is due to the mesh differences I think. V3's nipple area is half the size of V4. See the image above comparing with the guides. This is why V4's nipples look like saucers in some instances.
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kalon posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 6:55 PM
Well my enthusiasm hasn't waned.
When? When? When? When?
I'd have volunteered, but the clause about "actual implementable solutions" put me off. I don't know how to re-map a figure, so I have doubts that I could provide you with solutions, implementable or otherwise.
pakled posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 8:13 PM
as an amateur student of female nipples (what man isn't?), they come, like breasts, in all shapes and sizes. I've seen (ahem), pictures on the net with aereoles even larger than that. In fact, I find the 'troublesome' ones more realistic. No reason they couldn't be a future morph, or what I call 'a happy accident'..;)
Don't have V4 (heck, I don't even have the inj morphs for V3) so can't be any help, but I have to admit it's looking good so far.
I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit
anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)
estherau posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 10:10 PM
i'm still eagerly waiting too love esther PS mac users can't use UTC anyway even if we wanted to
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Faery_Light posted Fri, 03 August 2007 at 10:41 PM
David, I would be happy to test the maps with my textures. I do have both v3 and v4 and I use the free UV mapper. But I don't do any real mapping, I'm mostly a texture artist. If I can be of help, let me know as I feel this project is worth it.
Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.
Mazanadreams posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 1:16 AM
I hope you continue I would happily buy something that allows me to use all my V3 textures on V4 as i prefer V4 but miss my old favourite textures
JoePublic posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 2:41 AM
The problem with V4's knees is that she hasn't got any.
Compare the size of V3's and V4's kneecaps, and you'll see that while V3 has well molded, normal sized kneecaps, V4's are tiny.
(The reason for this is that small kneecaps make a knee appear to bend smoother without complicated fix morphs necessary.)
Anyway, the result is of course that a texture made for V3 WILL look destorted at the knees when transferred over to V4 if you look at them side by side.
It's not that the (re-) mapping is flawed, it's the underlying (V4) mesh that is anatomically not correct.
So I really wouldn't worry, David. You did an excellent job so far.
If you take a closer look at previous remaps, even those that DAZ made themselves, you'll find that none of them is 100% perfect.
Nor are the texture conversions that UTC makes.
And, if one looks closely, neither are the ORIGINAL UV maps of most figures.
It's just that a texture that is especially MADE for a figure can compensate for the flaws in mapping or modelling, while a remap has to find an "average" mapping that works with a lot of different textures that were NOT made for that figure.
So again, don't worry about the "flaws" too much.
dphoadley posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 10:18 AM
I did some more comparsion pictures but decided to not post them on the forum.
You could do this if you like, but I thought I show them to you first via mail.
I grabbed snowsultans seam guides for v3 and put it on v3 and v4.
Attached is a zip file with some pictures and some problems i noticed.
I also noticed with help of the seam guides that some seams do not line up right. That could cause problems with second skins. I think it is not very much noticable with normal skins.
Pretty please, keep up the great work :)
So far it looks very, very good with normal skins and the upper torso looks also very good with second skins. I really liked that :P"
*Look at the following photos that she sent, and give your input. I will try to fix some of the problems, but I can't guarantee that I'll be able to fix ALL. There is the desirable, and then there is the doable. I can probably DO the doable, but the desirable has so far eluded me, and left me in my present deep blue funk. I've already put an awful lot of effort into this body remap, and would really like to get on to something else, like finishing the head, or the hands, or the teeth, or the eyes, or the upper eyebrows, or the the lashes.
DPH
dphoadley posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 10:22 AM
dphoadley posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 10:26 AM
dphoadley posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 10:28 AM
dphoadley posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 10:30 AM
dphoadley posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 10:31 AM
patorak posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 11:08 AM
Hi David
It looks good and you're just about there. Don't give up! Think outside the box. Look at the forest not the trees! Disregard V3's and V4's material zones and create your own. Some of the top figure modelers only have 3 to 5 surfaces ( material zones ) i.e head, eyes, and body.
Cheers
Pat
RAMWorks posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 11:27 AM
I was going to menion something along those lins as well. You may not have to have things lined up as they should if you can work things to that second skins apply as they should apear to look. If this is not doable then I certainly understand but in order to get mapping to map correctly sometimes you really do have to think outside of the box!! 
---Wolff On The Prowl---
dorelia posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 12:42 PM
As I already wrote in the mail: it looks very good with normal skins. :woot:
I don't care if second skins do not fit 100%. I rarely use them.
ValleyMist posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 7:32 PM
ValleyMist posted Sat, 04 August 2007 at 8:34 PM
Oops, that's just like V3, however doesn't A3 have an extra material zone on each leg?
Edit: nevermind, I just noticed that they're named differently is all.
dphoadley posted Sun, 05 August 2007 at 2:52 AM
I've also adjusted the elbow crease on the left arm, and am presently duplicating the fix on the right. All beta testors will soon have version 2 of the uvs sent to them for further testing.
DPH
dphoadley posted Sun, 05 August 2007 at 2:54 AM
dphoadley posted Sun, 05 August 2007 at 3:15 AM
Anniebel posted Sun, 05 August 2007 at 3:36 AM
Looks great
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RAMWorks posted Sun, 05 August 2007 at 10:54 AM
Now that looks really clean David!! I'd say near perfection there!! Congratulations on your hard work. I think the efforts show for themselves!! 
---Wolff On The Prowl---
cyberscape posted Sun, 05 August 2007 at 3:05 PM
Much better! Especially the hip area!
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AMD FX-9590 4.7ghz 8-core, 32gb of RAM, Win7 64bit, nVidia GeForce GTX 760
PoserPro2012, Photoshop CS4 and Magix Music Maker
--------------------------------------------------------------
...and when the day is dawning...I have to say goodbye...a last look back into...your broken eyes.
crucibelle posted Sun, 05 August 2007 at 6:51 PM
Looks great, David! I really hope you stick with it. You have my full support!
dphoadley posted Sun, 05 August 2007 at 10:57 PM
bnetta posted Mon, 06 August 2007 at 9:23 AM
this looks wonderful!
buying this would solve my biggest problem with using v4, keep up the great work.
netta
kobaltkween posted Mon, 06 August 2007 at 12:14 PM
first off, UTC makes major errors. RawArt found it completely butchered his horror mandroid (flesh and circuits intermingled) and other really detailed textures. i think he posted pictures in the daz forums some time around when it came out. in point of fact, my understanding was that it couldn't do 2nd skin or patterned textures at all. what i remember of RawArt's posting was much worse than what you're showing here. and the UTC plugin spoken about for Aiko here i'd bet is V3 to Aiko, which would be cake since the only difference among unimesh figures is that they relaxed the UVs each time they made a new mesh. the big leap was from v2 to unimesh, and that's where i've seen the nightmare distortion throughout the whole face and body (creepy is what it was). and is the only shift equivalent to your work.
but! i used it on many great textures and had it perform perfectly. because i didn't use it on 2nd skins. i wanted brown sugar and golden girls by daliniese for v3, and it worked great for that. i was very happy with its performance as a purchase, but frankly was not happy when subsequent add-ons were basically for other unimesh figures. i bought the base because i thought it was going to be a universal texture converter, not a unimesh/daz one. and i didn't expect with a $30 base that non-unimesh add-ons would be so expensive. i suspect that it was more complex than anticipated to go forward with, and i bear no ill-will towards dark whisper. but to be totally honest, i would much prefer i pay for a single remapped figure that doesn't require extra work or hard drive space on my part. and while i hadn't heard that the v4 UTC was officially announced, i'm not surprised that it'll be split into two products - one for the head and one for the body (from what you seem to be saying). unless you're planning to charge upwards of $40 or $50, i'm betting this will be the less expensive option as well as more convenient (imho).
if you make the detail areas match up with the mesh (like where there should be creases or wrinkles in the skin texture, i'm fairly sure that will be enough for her to work great for my work at least.
jeffg3 posted Mon, 06 August 2007 at 10:49 PM
Stupid question of the year:
I've got the beta .uvs file.
What do I do with it?
jonnybode posted Mon, 06 August 2007 at 11:08 PM
Hi Jeffg3!
1: UVMapper - File - Load your V4 objekt (blMilWom_v4b.obj) - File - Import uvs (beta.uvs) - file - save model (under new name).
2: Open a saved characther in a textreader (wordpad) and do a search and replace, from old v4 object to newly mapped object, save under new name.
Hope that was what you were after and that I didnt miss something.
Regards / Jonny
dphoadley posted Tue, 07 August 2007 at 12:09 AM
**dphoadley@**jonnybode
When I go to market the UVS, I'll use your clear, concise, instructions in the README.
@**jeffg3
**Please accept my appologies for not having clearified that issue when I sent the UVS. My only excuse was that I was distracted. Jonnybode seems to have covered all salent points.
DPH
momodot posted Tue, 07 August 2007 at 9:11 AM
dp, i havn't been around much and I just caught this thread. Only parsed it :) but I have to say to you that the work is amazing. Bravo!!! I am emensely impressed!
jonnybode posted Tue, 07 August 2007 at 9:48 AM
JonnyBode@dphoadley, glad if I can help!
To bad we didnt get to know if Jeffg3 understood it..
Regards / Jonny
jeffg3 posted Tue, 07 August 2007 at 9:03 PM
Quote - To bad we didnt get to know if Jeffg3 understood it..
I got it!!!!
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dphoadley posted Wed, 08 August 2007 at 5:18 PM
kobaltkween posted Wed, 08 August 2007 at 5:46 PM
wow, that looks eerie. eyeless vicky will come to get you!
unimesh eyes are difficult, i know. i once tried to make a texture for aiko that had a long cat's eye trail from the corner of her eye. not only could i not figure out how to get one where i wanted without severe smearing, but i looked around and realized that every texture artist i could see just avoided putting detail in that area at all. all the makeup either went higher up or not that far out, and just avoided the problem altogether.
RAMWorks posted Wed, 08 August 2007 at 6:49 PM
Hi David,
Is is possible to see a close up of the face?? Looks really good but I do see something under the eye... it's either a shadow or it's perhaps the bottom lashes or?
Looking really good. I'll be curious to see how you do the eye mapping since there is the Sclera for M4 characters from Eyewhite from Mil 3 characters. Not so hard I know, probably easier than most of the other maps but still curious to see if some of the realism that was achieved with Vicky 3's eyes and how that will translate to Vicky 4!!
All the best.....
---Wolff On The Prowl---
crucibelle posted Wed, 08 August 2007 at 9:32 PM
I'm with RAMWolff on this one. I'm very interested in seeing how you map the eyes. V4's eyes are mapped pretty strangely, IMO. I think that's why texture artists have such a hard time making them look realistic. V3's eyes looked much better, to me.
dphoadley posted Wed, 08 August 2007 at 10:57 PM
RAMWorks posted Wed, 08 August 2007 at 11:19 PM
Not failure in the least David. Step away from the project for a week and then come back to it!! I know folks are clammoring for this to be done and in their hot little hands but I can very much see from all your works you are a perfectionist and that's a good thing. My thoughts are that you need to clear your head and get into a better place to do go about this.
---Wolff On The Prowl---
dphoadley posted Wed, 08 August 2007 at 11:41 PM
Closeup of the Manhattan Head&Face MAT, overlaid with the UV mesh. Here it's obvious that the artist left the models lashes in the actual mat. On V3, this is probablypartially hidden by the transmapped lashes on render. As I've yet to do Vic 4.1's lashes, I'm not sure as to whether this will be the solution here or not.
Another problem area is the Upper eyebrows. Daz created a monster here, they resmeble bandit's mask.
DPH
RAMWorks posted Thu, 09 August 2007 at 12:10 AM
I was thinking to myself... not your fault that that particular skin was left with the lashes on like that. I don't think this will be much of an issue with other skins David.....
Eyebrows... yea, those can be a pain in the ass to get just right and they are so important too since they are such an integral part of expression but you don't want them stretched out so V4 looks like Groucho Marks either!! LOL On Vittorio 4 that would be fine!! HAH!! :lol:
That's another thing I'm looking forward to... M3 textures should just about fit pretty well give those of us that use Vittorio 4 more options as well. The only thing that does not line up very well is the navel, it's off quite a bit from the M3 texture I tested out on V3 a week or so ago. Oh well... post work then!!
---Wolff On The Prowl---
dphoadley posted Thu, 09 August 2007 at 12:25 AM
Women have much longer pelvises than men do, slo navals could be a problem, and not all M3/freak textures are that accurate, Whn remapping the Duke (P4 male), I discovered that one M3/freak texture freebie from RDNA, the left nipple was out of place compared to what the snowsultan template said it sohould be. (You should give the Duke a whirl, he actually renders pretty good).
DPH
Saluki posted Thu, 09 August 2007 at 8:26 AM
Hi David,
I'm just catching up and very sorry I wasn't around or had the time to assist with beta on this but I wanted to chip in my two cents worth of encouragement. What I've seen, so far, looks great -- very, very good job! You have a sale, here, when you decide to release! ;)
Saluki posted Thu, 09 August 2007 at 8:50 AM
Quote - *"Almost all of the texture's I seen made for V4 the aerola's were too big... "*100% agreed. They are all either too big or burgandy or deep brown. V4 texture offerings are like a ghastly nipple convention. Oddly enough seein how I'm female makes me always notice a decent set of nipples on something.
Just to add to this, that is the one and only reason why I wont purchase textures that don't show everything, I'm certain I've got a 99% chance of opening it up to find saucer nipples.
In my 2D work, I've dealt with a number of models and (while not a very broad sampling, I admit) I've found that V4's aureola size isn't completely out of line and is, probably, a little more flexible than V3's (as it's not as difficult to shrink V4's as it is to expand V3's, IMO).
The models I've dealt with have varied greatly in shape and size of aureola and, when I'm working in 3D, I like to mirror that. One of the reasons I prefer V4 over the G2 line is the difficulty in creating realistic variations, as I find they are less flexible in that particular part of the anatomy.
A big problem does seem to be in the texturing and I fully agree with you that I wouldn't purchase a texture without knowing in advance what lies beneath. The colouration is often a problem, too. I've yet to meet a real world model with burgundy nipples! I guess that's something I will continue to look forward to? lol.
Apologies for going OT... :)
dphoadley posted Thu, 09 August 2007 at 9:52 AM
"I've yet to meet a real world model with burgundy nipples! I guess that's something I will continue to look forward to? lol."
I saw a striper once with burgandy nipples, - that is until one of her pasties fell off, then it was ordinary again. ;=D
DPH
kobaltkween posted Thu, 09 August 2007 at 10:32 AM
don't feel down. as i've read in various places, lots of very quality and popular textures have things like burned in highlights, and in this case, eyebrows and lashes built into the flat texture. it's a real shame that it makes your job more difficult. if i had manhattan, i'd make a doctoring ps layer for you to get rid of such details.
dphoadley posted Fri, 10 August 2007 at 7:59 AM
RAMWorks posted Fri, 10 August 2007 at 5:22 PM
