Carrara 6 Pro is out. Will it be better for rendering Poser 6/7scenes? I have Carrara 5 regular.

I don't know, but I'm seriously considering buying it. If it wasn't for the constraints of my hard drive, I wouldn't have any qualms at all. I have Vue 5 infinite but it leaks memory like a sieve. Naturally, (for e-on) Vue 6 didn't fix this problem. Though capable of amazing things, you still face severe constraints if you work with Poser imports without a supercomputer. You could use Mojoworld for placing Poser figures into environments, though the camera is awkward and you might spend 5 hours on a render before you discover that there are problems. Bryce 5 is junk. Not that you can't make good art with junk occasionally. Could Carrara 6 is the Poser environment and rendering solution I've hoped for all these years? I doubt it, but it might be worth a try anyway.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

I have used carrara 5 pro and you can render massive scenes superb and have vue 5 and 6 though 6 esprite a rip off don't buy, it has problems that they made sure was not in pro or above.
You could wait a few days to see what post's people put up as I'm going to get today as have room on credit card, and hopefully the out door scenes and water like vue should be good.
If not sure just look for posts.

I also have just looked at this over at DAZ and am considering it. I have Vue6 Inf and a "super computer" but Cararra seems to have a lot going for it, I'd be interested on opinions here!!
How was Carrara 5 for Poser import???

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Just be aware that currently there's some confusion over why Transposer 2 wasn't included with Carrara 6 Pro and without it you can't import Dynamic Clothing or hair and many PZ3 files into Carrara 6 Pro that were created using Poser 7. Hopefully they'll be fixing the updates for folks who have previously purchased Transposer 2 with Carrara 5 or 5 Pro so they don't have to pay the extra $100 or $40 for PC members additional costs for Transposer 2 for C6!

Also, there seems to be an issue with Carrara 6's ability to search mutiple runtimes for calls from one figure and textures and OBJ's are having to be manually located by many people. If you have external runtimes, it has been found that if you have the word "Runtime" anywhere in your runtime folder structure above the actual runtime itself that Carrara has even more difficulty in locating items. 

IE:
Good folder Structure:
G:Poser ContentDAZ ContentRuntime
Bad folder structure:
G:Poser RuntimesDAZ RuntimeRuntime < Two Too many uses of the word Runtime!!

As with any new software release, the users are finding all these issues that should have been caught in Beta Testing phase and filling the forums with posts about them. 

Reccommendation: 
Wait for the kinks to be found if you don't need the stress of testing software.

On poser 6 import i had no problem and could get quite a bit of poser 7 import over, even if a problem with import did old fashion import.
When i install this afternoon I'm going to  see how import works and the sale is 2 weeks so you got plenty time see peeps reports.

I'm confused already!!

According to the features page at DAZ I can import pz3's etc. into C6 with no problem!

In the forums everyone is going on about not having Transposer for Poser imports or such!! Anyone explain what this transposer is and what it does that C6 doesn't do without it!!

Sorry never used Carrara in any shape or form so it's all nerw terminology for me, I'm a Vue man up to now!!!

TIA!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Transposer is an add-on utility that permits to import native pz3 with dynamic hair or/and dynamic clothes. Without it, you can import pz3 into Carrara, but without dynamic. I think it's the only difference.
I have C5, but never get use of it (not enough time... :)
Due to the Vue6 issues, i were looking at C6 too.

My Store

Transposer is a Plugin Importer that was made to import Poser files to Carrara before they ever had a native importer. It allows the importing of some features, such as Dynamic Hair & Dynamic Clothing, that Carrara's Native Poser Import just doesn't support. If you don't use Poser Dynamic Hair or clothing it's not needed. If you do, it's a must have.

Sorry to be a pain, so is the native Carrara 6 Pro importer work properly with Poser, only I've seen some threads at DAZ where textures and props etc. don't actually import!
After the nightmares I've had with Vue6Inf memory management I don't want to add another headache into the mix!! [LOL].

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Did you READ the first post I made to this thread? It explains the problems people are having with imports and part of the reasons that have been discovered. I'm sure that more reasons will become apparent as we, the early birds, run it through the mill. 

The native importer works fine on anything created in Poser 6 or below (IE: Poser's 1 thru 6)EXCEPT FOR Dynamic Hair and Dynamic Clothes. There is NO guaranteed Poser 7 Support because they never bought EF's SDK for Poser 7. This means content and PZ3's created in Poser 7 will cause problems. Workarounds are being discovered and discussed.

It has difficulty locating some OBJ's and some Textures due to naming issues with external runtimes and possibly other reasons as well which are as yet unknown. It appears that C6's runtime search feature doesn't like to go back and forth between runtimes to find OBJ and texture calls from more than one runtime per item being loaded.

" According to the features page at DAZ I can import pz3's etc. into C6 with no problem!"

I'm sure the marketing hype that claimed this is no longer visible so it never existed. Welcome to the happy valley. Also I distinctly remember being told by someone semi-official that C6P would read P7 files just fine. This was a decider for me because C5P chokes on P7 but not P6.

And there's one more problem to think about, if you are planning to upgrade from C5P. I registered my C5P at DAZ less than two weeks ago, giving them my serial number to verify and succeeding to the point that I qualified for a free upgrade. Fine, except my free upgrade says I have an invalid serial number. So I've had C6P since Wednesday, but I can't install or use it. I e-mailed DAZ immediately. Got a responsemore than 24 hours later that their Tech people would "look into it." So now it's Saturday and my C6P is still not installed. No word from their "Tech people."

I considered buying another upgrade, but what if the problem is that it can't read my serial number? Then I'm out a small but useful chunk of money. I even considered buying a new full license (a similar problem occurred with my Hex 2.0 license, and I gave up and bought a one-month PC and a new Hex 2.1 license), but based on what I see here, I think I'll wait until the product catches up with the promise. Who knows? Maybe what I have already was worth every penny?

M

The import of P7 pz3 into CAR 6P is not good ...9/10 times its stops working..
On my Xp Pc and on my MAC same thing...

Transposer2 for C6 is a complete ripoff ..
is was a part of C5pro ..so C6 Pro is 100$ over priced!

because they took it out for separate selling.. ripoff in my book.
So beware that P7 is not 90% working with C6Pro....

C6pro and P6 i dont know yet... 
DS/should work but i see tons of "not working" messages over at DAZ... 

Im NOT happy with it ....

Chris

 

IF YOU WANT TO CONTACT BAR-CODE SENT A  PM to 26FAHRENHEIT  "same person"

Chris

 

My Free Stuff

IMPORTANT
You can import poser and daz runtimes into carrara 6 pro, though cant find model tool at moment and will have figure out hair tool, and have to do bloody water old way yuk..
Even on me amd dual 4200 1 gb mem and 7600 card it renders faste than 5 pro.

I just rread a post over at daz that transposer was built into C6Pro, but as previously mentioned, P6 and below support are available and P7 support not.

If P7 had JUST been released, I could maybe forgive that, but it's been around for quite some time now. Looks to me like a move to get users into using DS rather then poser, and I have a feeling they will end up alienating a large portion of the P7 user base.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

They cant get access to sdk so transposer support no for 7, though independent programmers had said they found a way round that with out using p7 sdk but obviously daz never listen to them.

Regarding the problem I had with the serial number: Someone at the Carrara forum pointed out that DAZ issued a new serial number, listed on my "serial codes" page. Using that, I am installing C6P.

This does not address the P7 problem. If Carrara doesn't support P7 3rd party items, it will be of limited use to me. Really too bad, since it was my exclusive pro renderer for Poser when C5P worked with P6.

M

Hold the phone. My install has crashed twice while installing the MS VC++ Redistributable on W2K and a year-old machine. Not sure what that means, but I'm not upgrading Windows when I can Wine etc. most applications -- reportedly even P6 -- under Linux.

Well it really depends if they didn't buy the sdk, or if they did buy it and couldn't figure out the issues.

Regardless, releasing without P7 support is a pretty big deal. They must know why its happening by now.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Sigh. The error message (including a Dr. Watson) apparently was a spook. Carrara is installed and runs. However, I tried to load my latest PZ3, made in P7 with V3, Heavy Horse, Harvey Mann's "I Dream of Jeannie" hair (Allura?), and the Environment set from DAZ, and it harrassed me for 20 OKs demanding a bunch of ...X.bmp files that I don't have. Needless to say, Poser loads this file without them.

Sure enough, loading PZ3's uses the old, unreliable Import approach. Haven't tried setting up the Runtime "transparently" yet, but the importer demanded that I identify my default Runtime, so the question may be moot. I'm with the folks who were given the distinct impression that TransPoser WAS the "transparent Poser load" tool. How silly of us.

For the record, here are the "non-transparent" elements of the imported PZ3:

1. V3 pose is messed up. Her left hand is embedded to the wrist in the horse. Apparently her hand is embedded in the horse because her position relative to the horse has been changed. I had to move her entire body to make the correct pose even possible.
2. Camera view lost.
3. Lights either missing or set wrong -- my night scene is a nooner.
4. Horse's texture is totally hosed, to the point that it's not salvagable.
5. Transparency discarded on the hair. Back to Fisher Price hair. Same thing happened with the fetlocks.
6. Strange "crumpling" at the joints in the horse's neck, and the "crumbles" are congruent with the places where the texture is ruined. The crumple is visible in wireframe.
7. V3's butt is crumbled, though the effect doesn't show as much in renders because the texture is not patterned. Also strange "shelves" and distortions all over her body. They render as such a mess that it's hardly worth trying to fix.
8. The "crumbles" are probably caused by C6P choosing to set Use Limits, which they call Constrain, at full. I haven't checked, but the bad spots look like they are where the figures were pushed a bit to suit the pose.
9. Many of the crumbles on V3 (with the Cat_Knight morph applied) seem to be related to injected morphs. SInce the horse doesn't have them, I'm not sure what that means.
10. During the load (I switched to a PZ3 more than three years old with Steph, Traveler's belly dance costume, Koz' Chignon, and a floor), C6P fails to locate blStephanie.obj. I have opened this file in P4, P5, P6, and P7 without this problem.
11. It can't find the textures. Any of them. I'm reinstalling them one at a time. Worse yet, every time it can't find a file, it defaults to looking for exec files (*.sha, *.exe, *.dll, etc) and announces that the file is not in the folder (and fails to display it) even if it is. Royal PIA. Of course once you have told it where the first belly dance costume texture is, it doesn't look there when it can't find the next one. There are about twenty textures for the costume, all in the same folder.... Wait! It changed its mind; now it can find them. Whatever.
12. Renders are lightning fast, but load times are horrible. It took nearly five minutes for the Godiva scene to load, not counting delays to look for textures, and three for the Steph picture. The Steph file is only 15Megs.
13. This PZ3 also has bad lights and wrong camera, but the figure is not screwed up and I can imagine taking the time it will require to get something comparable to a mediocre render in P5.
14. I attempted to take the veil to the Textures palette and fix the transparency. Instead I went to something called "BaseMess," which looks like it might be the base of Kozaburo's Chignon. But I had the veil selected! There is no obvious way to fix this except go back and try again.
    14a. Back in the main "room," apparently you can't select an object, then take it to the texture room. You have to select the material (meaning you have to know that BaseMess is the foundation for Kozaburo Chignon, for example).  And you have to do this in the Texture room. These problems existed in C5P's importer, which is another reason for bringing the file in with TransPoser. Without it, importing's middle name is PIA.
15. It doesn't matter though, because the Texture room doesn't seem to have any idea how to add transparency to the veil, even though it renders as transparent in the room. I'll wait while you read that again. That's right: The veil renders in the Transparency preview as transparent even though C6P claims to have turned the Transparency off (None), and turning the Transparency on does not change the Preview Renders in any way.
16. Ok, I found a combination of sliders that fixed the transparency, setting it around 80%. Since C6P has discarded all my transparency settings, I am looking at fixing about 20-30 more materials. A bit like changing the "Normals Forward" on a figure. One checkbox. 'Nother checkbox.... 'Nother checkbox.....
17. Unfortunately the renderer has an odd idea about the meaning of transparency. It now renders the portion of the chest covered by the "semi-transparent" veil as lighter than the skin that isn't covered. Of course. Exactly like real life....

That's enough fun for today. I have a Saturday to live in. I recommend waiting for the reviews of C6P 1.1. This looks like a not half bad modelling tool (of course, so is C5P), and it may integrate nicely with DAZ Studio. But as a tool for rendering Poser scenes, it's worthless. Unlike C5P. I recommend finding an old C5P and looking for some techie solution to loading P7 scenes into it. I think the only problem is that you must be able to point TransPoser at a pre-P7 exe file, so if all you have is P7, you are truly out of luck.
M

well, anyway, I hope that dan is telling his techs to read this and other threads in this forum, in order to work out any problems that c6pro users are having. I found it imports pz3 files created in P7 o.k., but said files have no dynamic hair nor cloth.

Anothe problem with the lack of TP is that if you imported a Poser scene into C5 via TP2 and saved it as a .car5 scene, it Will Not open in C6 without the new TP2.

I think the point that's being missed is that with Carrara 6 Pro YOU DON'T NEED POSER! For anything!
You can load your existing Runtimes right into C6's content browser and start working right away. You can pose, add MAT poses, INJ/REM poses, conform clothing, etc.-right in Carrara. And it's much faster than Poser. C6's OpenGL is hugely improved over C5, so you can create animations and watch them back in real time before you render.
There's no point in worrying about Poser's dynamic hair either because C6's dynamic hair is just awesome. It simulates wickedly fast and the tool set for styling the hair is great. Plus you can use the dynamic hair for grass, fur, fuzz, carpet, etc.
Some of the crazier shader trees from Poser won't translate over, but who in the hell cares? C6's shader setup is hugely more robust than Poser's and if you spend the 15 minutes it takes to learn how to use Carrara's shaders, you'll have a wealth of possibilities at your fingertips.
The only thing I'm not sure about is dynamic cloth. Transposer handled it just fine, but I have too many deadlines to wait for Poser to run a cloth sim. DAZ's OptiTex plugin is on its way, so that should sove that problem.
I personally haven't had any issues with PZ3s in C6, but it is much faster to just load Poser content into C6 right from your Runtimes.
And to think I thought DAZ Studio would be the Poser-killer...

Well, ya still can;t rig a poser figure in C6pro, can you? If not, then yes, there still IS a need for poser, at least for content creators.

Are proceedural shaders supported from poser in opengl? If not, there's another reason you need Poser, if you are developing Poser shaders.

From your statement, it sounds liek there's now a third platform to support, Poser7, DS, and now C6p. fragmenting the market seems like a fool's errand to me. Content creators are already trying to maintain compatibility with P4-7, and DS.

I wonder if we'll see products with dynamic hair for poser only, and products for C6P with dynamic hair that are C6P only.. we're already seeing many DS only plugins available.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Quote - I think the point that's being missed is that with Carrara 6 Pro YOU DON'T NEED POSER! For anything!

That point certainly hasn't been missed in DAZ' C6P buzz fest. Unfortunately, it seems to have been missed in the implementation. If you are suggesting that I could have built the entire Godiva scene from scratch in C6P, that may be so, but it has no dynamic objects (of which I have many), the transparencies are part of the products in the case of all the cr2s but Vickie (a total of nearly twenty in two scenes), and the crumpling of the mesh might well have occurred even if the figure was zero'd out (I'll check tomorrow).

What's more, the C6P interface is not equipped with parameter dials, which are my first recourse, and the transform tools are far from as easy to use as Poser's. The one thing I have never adjusted to in Carrara is having to type parameter guesses into the boxes to move things (yes, I know about the neato gimbeled rings; I don't find them easy to use for some reason).

I say all this prepared to junk Poser permanently if I don't need it. Right now, I'd say it would be grossly premature. C6P may be the greatest all-around bargain in modeling software (though it's hard to beat Blender's "free"), but as a substitute for Poser it's a wash so far.

I'll give it a few more hours to convince me, but then it's back to the Blender tutorials for me, I suspect. If some GPL techie is working on a Blender to Poser interface, my mind will be made up.

M

Gareee, jt411 was talking from a user standpoint, and from his standpoint even though a merchant needs to continue to use Poser to develop content for Poser, that won't stop the customer from buying your Poser content if they want to becouse they will be able to import it directly into carrara. as far as procedural shaders for Poser yes they will be out of luck becouse Carrara uses its own shader system, so they will need to recreate shaders, but then again people already do have to do so for Studio in some cases. Some merchants have seen oppertunities in additional support for Studio, some have chosen not to. that may well happen with Carrara as well. just means more possibilities to me.

Sure you can rig figures in C6 Pro! Remember Carrara is a full-fledged modeler too. I don't think rigging in C6 is comparable to let's say 3ds Max, but it's there and it works.
As far as the dials are concerned, that's purely personal taste. I grew up on 3ds Max, so it's natural for me to manipulate body parts directly when posing a figure.
Carrara uses sliders for morph targets though :)

I'm not happy with Carrara6 Pro. I have bought Carrara5 Pro last year but never used it because I didn't like the interface and the way Carrara works. When I saw the dynamic hair in Carrara6 Pro I thought: "OK, give Carrara another chance!" so I updated to Carrara6 Pro. I still think it's difficult to work with Carrara. There is only a few tutorials (I tried Modo 203 -demo- and was very happy with the huge amount of well-done tutorials). In Carrara6 Pro I had to try and try again myself to understand how a function works, how I could make some hair, how to render it properly.... I finally understood how I could make some dynamic hair on a sphere. But the problem is that I can't export the hair. If I try to export it in Poser 6 a message says: error plugin...So what's the point on making hair if you can't export it? Personally I would never change Vue for Carrara. Creating landscapes is much easier, faster and better in Vue! My purpose is to use DAZ figures in a great environment/landscape. So if I use Carrara it's to create dynamic hair/cloth and export it so I can render my figure in a beautiful landscape. If I can't export any dynamic hair/cloth from Carrara it's useless for me.

I have an old version of Carrara and never really got on with the interface. I mainly use Poser, but after seeing some of the new functions I am thinking about getting it.

 I was going to buy Syntheyes because it is the only Poser compatable motion tracker, however Carrara 6 although not able to do motion tracking itself can import them from a few programs. I have a motion tracking program that I got free on a magazine cover. What I need to know is:

1. What file format tracking information can Carrara 6 import (file extension)?
2. Carrara can import pz3 files, but if I imported tracking information into it, could I then save the pz3 file or camera information in Carrara and then import or open it back up into Poser?

It sounds a round about way of doing this but Syntheyes is more expensive the Carrara 6, and Carrara could be used for rendering, modelling etc while Syntheyes just does the tracking.

Daz Studio 4.8 and 4.9beta, Blender 2.78, Sketchup, Poser Pro 2014 Game Dev SR5 on Windows 8 Pro x64. Poser Display Units are inches

I've not had any problems importing P7 pz3s into C6pro once I came across the tip to delete the lights in Poser and resave the pz3.

Dynamic hair - C6pro now has it's own dynamic hair so not being able to import Poser dynamic hair isn't too much of an issue. I also understand that a plugin will 'soon' be available to also give dynamic cloth capability within C6pro

This pz3 imported fine (V4.1 and juli hair) once I'd deleted all the lights  - this rendered in about 40 minutes on relative high quality settings (AMD FX60 dual core with 2GB ram)

Quote - I've not had any problems importing P7 pz3s into C6pro once I came across the tip to delete the lights in Poser and resave the pz3.

You left out "and then spend whatever time it takes to do the lighting, cameras, and shaders again in C6P." Lights are much easier to work with in C6P than in Poser, and lighting effects are better. But using it with this tip means changing your workflow to avoid doing anything with lights until you go to C6P. Or duplicate effort. Personally, I prefer to work holistically, tinkering with lights, camera angle, pose and even props all through the process. I repeat, I would never assume that I can "just open my PZ3s in C6P." I was Ok with that in C5P, because Eovia had the integrity not to imply I could. The claim that you can in C6P is cheap marketing BS. Importing PZ3 files into C6P is actually less effective than it was in C5P, because of the greed about TransPoser (which was free in C5P, part of the "Pro" part...).

You also left out that transparency might as well be deleted, and C6P provides no simple way to make a single change to multiple shaders (a gross omission in Poser, but in Poser, the merchant's transparency settings work...). And that the default camera won't be set up in the scene. Create animation with complex camera angles and changes in Poser? Then plan to duplicate the effort after import. My imports all arrive with some sort of distant camera and the scene a tiny dollop in the middle of the screen. Just like in C5P. None of the camera settings are being used, as far as I can tell.

I haven't even looked at the animation compromises, but I'm sure they are substantial, regardless of whether the end result is better.

I would never consider importing a PZ3 with commercial shaders into C6P. P6+ shaders are a major part of commercial product appeal, and they will be hosed. That eliminates a whole lot of commercial products that supposedly can be used WITHOUT POSER!!!

Quote -
Dynamic hair - C6pro now has it's own dynamic hair so not being able to import Poser dynamic hair isn't too much of an issue. I also understand that a plugin will 'soon' be available to also give dynamic cloth capability within C6pro

It's a pretty good issue if you have invested in commercial dynamic hair. And I was under the impression C6P did dynamic cloth. Should have read the fine print. Since dynamic cloth is a major commerical line (and rightfully, since cloth works much better than hair in Poser), it's lack of availability is a major hinderance to using my Poser third-party props. I can understand not supporting cloth dynamics, but it's a simple matter to convert a dynamic cloth into a changed (or morphing) static object, and if it can't do that, then a big investment (of time and money) in one of Poser's advanced technologies is money down the drain.

What it boils down to is that Poser "replacement" was glib marketing hype. That's no surprise, considering the source, but I'm not going to sit by and watch DAZevangels recite misinformation in the face of the truth. The Cat_Knight morph that got crumpled on V3 is all DAZ technology; it won't even handle their own products! I am reminded of the first time I loaded V2 into the so-called "public beta" of D|S: It looked like such utter, useless crap that I deleted the program. My avatar at DAZ Beta Forums is based on what D|S did to her image map.

C6P might be a good substitute for Poser if you are

1. Willing to discard all your existing PZ3s.
2. Willing to learn an entirely new vocabulary and interface for lights, cameras and movement.
3. Ready to use a unique system of procedural shaders.
4. Not concerned about using legacy purchases of hair, props, lights, cameras, materials, and figures.
5. Convinced that fidelity to DAZ will ensure getting your own planet.

Personally, I've never fit the marketing demographic.
M

I am completely new to Carrara, having had brief exposure to C5pro in order to get the 'free' C6pro upgrade. My understanding from the 'marketing hype' for C6pro was that it doesn't include a separate plug-in (i.e. Transposer) because the native import, together with the new additions to C6pro would be enough to do anything you need that previously you could do with Poser. I always understood that scenes would not necessarily import flawlessly from P7 because of the SDK licencing issues though I have to say that I have not had any problem with shaders, the shaders that I have been using in P7 seem to have imported without problems into C6pro, the only issue that I have had is that the hair doesn't always render as well in C6pro (see enclosed image)

Looks to me like you have some work to do on skin materials - in case it's of any value (I don't know what Carrara's shading interface is like, so probably not much):
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2709987

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Sigh. TBird: I think your "seamless import" speaks for itself....

Yes, we were under the impression that "TransPoser would be unnecessary" but your interpretation was a little different than mine. I assumed that meant because its functionality would be integrated into the application and the import function. Not that I would learn to live without it once I knew more....

M

pjz99 - for sure, realistic looking skin is a function both of the shader and the lighting, as the lighting and rendering engine is different in C6pro to Poser then I would expect that some work is required, though in fairness this is a pretty good representation of the P7 shader settings.

Daz maintain that with C6Pro you no longer need to work in Poser, the 'truth' of this statement or not remains to be seen and it is true that there are some who will always prefer working in Poser to working in a new package. I see myself continuing to use Poser, certainly for now, but as I learn to use C6pro then that may change though I accept that it may never be as good for certain things as Poser is, I have to say though that I have never been able to get good results from Posers dynamic hair so I am looking forward to seeing if Carrara's is any better.

As an aside this was created entirely within C6pro, taking just a few minutes to put together using the content tab.

Uh, the two closeups you provided had really wonky materials.  Not trying to knock you or anything, but ... :confused

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Here is an image of the same 'material' rendered in P7. The material has transferred into C6pro OK, it just looks a little 'flat' because in the two closeup images posted only ambient lighting is used so there is nothing to bring out the 'specular' highlights and nothing to really drive the SSS.

As an experiment, I built a picture from scratch in C6P using the MilDog and Environment. It took about ten minutes to get the look in the image, which I consider pretty mediocre. However, I was learning the new interface as I went (haven't used C5P for more than a year, thanks to a computer disaster followed by busy laziness). Also note that the render took at least as long as it would in P7. C6P does simple renders (no special lighting, few objects) with blinding speed. Give it a real scene, and it slows down to "normal" Poser speed. This was **not** true in C5P.

Some problems with building from scratch:

1. All objects and elements are defaulted to Full Constrain which is strictly enforced. So to pose an element, you must almost always begin by turning off the equivalent of Use Limits. Since the limit settings are usually quite conservative (the dog couldn't lift his leg at all), this is a major problem.
2. Parameter settings are controlled by sliders that represent 0 to 1.0. So a perfectly legitimate setting of 2.5 (used to shorten the dog's muzzle) or any negative setting can only be set by typing a guess at the right number. And if you mistakenly try to use the slider to refine the setting, it will "thunk" to the nearest default (0.0 or 1.0).
3. Default C6P lighting is painfully harsh, like unrefined sodium lamps. This image, believe it or not, is lit by one spotlight and a "moonlight" object.

Based on this, I concede (again) that C6P can be used effectively to create original scenes. Using it with any legacy material, from texture maps to PZ3s, is hopelessly time-consuming.

M

There is a Use Constraints option on the View menu (say what?). Unselecting it does **not** turn off the Full Constraint setting on the elements. Whatever.

Here's what the dog's head looks like with just a single "Moonlight" object, default settings. Strangely enough, repositioning the "moon" has no effect on the lighting! I recognize that using C6P to its full potential will refine the image, of course.

Quote - Here is an image of the same 'material' rendered in P7.

 

Oh my.  That ... is really not my kind of material set.  On the other hand as you say, it seems to have converted reasonably well.

(bright red squiggly eyelashes??? :ohmy: )

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This scene was created in Carrara6Pro, no pz3 was imported. I was easy just add your runtimes and load figure, clothes....ect then render, once I figured out how to add my runtimes it was pretty easy to create a scene.

I'm a C5 owner.... used it for a little while and then returned to Poser 6 again. Once in a while I still use it, but not often.

I bought C5 for doing multiple figure scenes. At the time I was using Poser 5 and Vue. Vue handles Poser figures badly and multiple figures even worse, so I switched to C5 with transposer, hoping it would do a better job. Not really...... it handles multiple figure scene pretty badly also. C5 becomes really slow and rendering (even with low settings) takes ages. While C5 has impressive features, it's slowness and slow render times spoils all the fun.

In the end I bought Poser 6 and I've not regretted it. For me it handles multiple figure scenes just fine and they even render at acceptable quality and in a acceptable time.

I wondered if C6 would do any better, but reading all of the problems people are facing, the many bugs (it's even worse then the initial poser releases) and looking at the horrible looking renders shown here that took a long time to render, I changed my mind and I'm going to spent my money on something else.

I also did try Vue 6, but that really is a joke, so I spent that money on buying a lot of landscape items and plants for Poser. Much better spent money.

I'm sticking to Poser and for my modeling needs I use my good Cinema4D v6 that offers far more modeling tools then C6 does and is very fast at everything.

Carrara sounds very impressive, until you start to use it, then it suddenly isn't as impressive anymore and after a while the way it worked even started to annoy me.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I have a question as i've seen the release of C6 Standard:

• i own C5 Standard but never used it yet
• i use Vue6 Pro for my renders, Hex2 for my modelling, and P6 for my posing
• i can upgrade from C5 to C6 for 48$ as a Platinum member

Does C6 Standard do something the other apps i have don't?

note: about dynamic hair, i played a little with it in P6, but never get good results.

My Store

Since you asked, I went and looked at the Carrara 6 feature list - wow, that is some slanted marketing.
http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/software/carrara/-/comparison
Poser 7 can't do custom keyboard shortcuts?  Yes it can (editing one of the .xml config files).
Poser 7 can't do creation of morph targets? 
Cinema 4d can't do "small/medium/large scenes"?  Cinema 4d can't do boolean operations on geometry?  Vue doesn't have primitives?  Vue can't do boolean operations?

Also they completely ignore all the commonly available plugins, both Maxon proprietary and 3rd-party e.g. Kuroyume's interPoser.

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Yep it's another one of those famous DAZ slander your competition campaigns to make yourself look much better, nothing new. I think they also should have a stabilty comparisment to reflect the truth a bit better. While C6 may have this or that, a good number of the features don't even work well and they've forgotten to fix quite some of the C5 bugs, they just carried them over into C6.

*"I have a question as i've seen the release of C6 Standard:

• i own C5 Standard but never used it yet
  *- i use Vue6 Pro for my renders, Hex2 for my modelling, and P6 for my posing
• i can upgrade from C5 to C6 for 48$ as a Platinum member
  *"

*It's safe to say that if you never used C5 even though you own it, that you will not use C6 either. If you're happy with the Vue6Pro-Hex2-P6 combination, then C6 will add nothing onto it (except for a lot frustrations perhaps). You're better of spending the money on something else.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Quote - Yep it's another one of those famous DAZ slander your competition campaigns to make yourself look much better, nothing new.

Golly, Mr. Hardy, you think? :)
Someday the Poser crowd will finally get it that giving away candy could maybe, just possibly, be a way to get you into the back seat....

M

You do most of us no justice if you call us the Poser crowd....... I'm using more applications then Poser only, as a lot of us do..... don't tell anyone, but I'm a Carrara user also.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I think he meant "poser crowd" in a pretty friendly way ;)

My Freebies

I have a question - does Carrara have any method of smoothing polygons?  I'm seeing poly corners that one would avoid in Poser by rendering with smooth polygons, and in other apps possibly by subdividing (that's how I do it in C4D).

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carrara has smoothing of textures, smoothing/creasing, subdivision levels.

That'd probably do the trick then, subdivision levels, although of course it would add to render time as it does in Cinema (not a real big deal to me though).  Thanks.

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Quote - You do most of us no justice if you call us the Poser crowd....

I used "crowd" in the sense that Swift uses "mob." But I was referrring to the "crowd" element in the Poser community, not suggesting that only "crowd types" use Poser. After all, I use Poser myself.....

Frankly, this "Fool me once, make it a hobby" mentality is pervasively American if not built into the human genome. How else explain the ability of the American people to go back to the same lying, hypocritical thugs, time and time again, like abused children hugging their abusers, confident that this time, this final time, things will be different?

... and you think that's unique to America? 

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"Frankly, this "Fool me once, make it a hobby" mentality is pervasively American if not built into the human genome. How else explain the ability of the American people to go back to the same lying, hypocritical thugs, time and time again, like abused children hugging their abusers, confident that this time, this final time, things will be different?"

I think he musta meant pervasively human, since the poser maretplace spans every continent on the globe. And after reading that, I thought about all the Japanese created digital cameras that didn't quite fit the bill properly, and are replaced with new models every 3 months or so.

Truly though, that slam aimed at Americans is quite offensive. I would think the Poster wouldn't own any american produced items since they are so inferior... must not be running Windows or a Mac either, since they are American made.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

it's most unfortunate for anyone to criticise the americans as if they were some monolithic herd of clones. I can assure y'all that they're not. we don't see the americans here criticising citizens of other nations. perhaps we should follow their lead in regard to tolerance of others.

Actually I always find it amazing that "Americans" are always lumped together as if there is "ONE" mentality and culture. Look at the size of countries in Europe... Germany, Italy, Poland, England.. and look at the diversity of cultures.

You see MUCH the same thing over here in America, just unified under one label.

The "cultures" of Inner City New York, Orlando, Florida, Hollywood, California, and Maine are all excellent examples of culture differences because of the sheer size of our country. There are local "customs" that are not the same from place to place, and you could easily spot and place a picture from each location, just as you could place a picture from Germany, England, or Italy.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Quote - Actually I always find it amazing that "Americans" are always lumped together...

I was referring to the "lumping together" that occurs every four years when we (American-born, me) elect a President so he can bankrupt the Treasury, send our children off to die for his big business cronies, wreck our schools.... Oh well, never mind.

M

.......must.......not.........type..........

:b_grin:

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

::: ignoring the American/Bush bashing fool above :::

Regarding Cararra render speed....I did an intensive one-month trial with C5. I found that indeed a 'low quality quick render' with nothing fancy is lightening quick, but that as you work you way back to Poser quaity with skin, closup and soft shadows, render time returns to Poser speed, as someone else noted above may also be true for C6.

::::: Opera :::::

if I'm not mistaken, Political diatribe is foridden in the forums, so you'll have to peddle your wares elsewhere.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Pulling the thead back before someone Godwin's it, this is pretty much another of the 'It's a Modeller! Poser is Dead!' masturbatory round robins that pop up. Poser's renderer may be 'slow'....but when you start pushing all the floats around that shadows, hires textures, ambient or GI, and any of the AA schemes creates, you can bring -any- renderer to its knees. I hope the C-heads enjoy the new release; it still has the same spastic dsylexic monkey designed interface. If the render nodes for P7Pro peform like I think they will, there may be a serious re-evaluation of the Poser REYES render engine as a useable option. From my work with Vue, it's remote Rendercows bury the application in render speed; they don't have the GUI handles to work around, or the library access code or the undo system. Just a minimal port display GUI, and the render engine with a TCP/IP interface. If P7Pro uses a similar scheme (and considering their relationship with eon, and the modularity of that scheme), animators could see maybe a doubling of renderspeed on a remote node. And look at the way they implemented the usage of multiple cores; tile rendering. Which means that you could easily alter that to use remote nodes for tile rendering, as well (as in having 3 or 4 computers chewing on a still instead of one). We shall see......

Heck, if EF would switch Poser's renderer over to Vue's, that would be a big, VERY big selling point now that you bring that up.  If only.

My Freebies

Would yo ube willing to pay a few hundered dollars MORE for poser if they did?

Odds are, that's how much the license would cost.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Has anyone reading this thread got a comment on Viewport Response in C6?

When I was testing C5, I found viewport response miserable compared to Poser. For instance, moving the animation slider was like molassas. Claims have been made that this is improved now.
 
I find the viewport response in Poser7 satisfactory even with full shaded mode with up to about 200,000 polys. After that, it gets progressively more sluggish and I have to switch off to cartoon or wire mesh for posing. One of my big reasons for moving to 3DSMax (but waiting to purchase for the next reslease in October) is the promise of fast viewport response, even with many hundreds of thousands of polys. Also, PoserPro....perhaps there will be an improvement in viewpoint response with 64-bit liberating more RAM, etc.

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - Would yo ube willing to pay a few hundered dollars MORE for poser if they did?

 

I would have before I'd spent three thousand on Cinema 4D, sure.  Not now.

My Freebies

Never let it be said that you can't download Carrara 6 Pro and its content with a 56k connection. It will take about 35 hours if you aren't disconnected. I did some test renders. There are odd, jagged edges on some of the included props that I'd like to eliminate. Perhaps it's possible, or maybe the spline models just weren't saved at an adequate level. I've just begun to tinker. Carrara must be the smallest place in the 3d universe because the microscopic Poser imports are giants in comparison to Carrara content.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&amp;userid=323368

"Heck, if EF would switch Poser's renderer over to Vue's, that would be a big, VERY big selling point now that you bring that up.  If only."

That would for sure mean I wouldn't buy Poser anymore. I do not like Vue's rendering engine at all and when it comes to speed, using a single core pc with no other pc's attached as I do, the Vue rendering engine is much slower then the Poser rendering engine.

There are some people complaining about Poser's rendering engine(s), but the are scores of people happily rendering away with it, never complaining. I'm one of the majority who actually likes the Poser rendering engine, it may be slow at times, but so is the Carrara or Vue or Bryce rendering engine when I do the same with those as I do in Poser. I actually do like the final results the poser rendering engines do give and Vue, Bryce or Carrara simply cannot achieve the same look and feel and it would be a real shame if EF decides to switch to Vue's engine.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Vue's renderer is generally slower than Poser, but it has the advantage of more realistic lights and shadows. Unfortunately, it has nothing like what faceoff and bagginsbill have contributed to Poser for realism in skin.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&amp;userid=323368

If you turn down quality low enough, and use unrealistic-enough lighting, you can render very quickly in Vue.  It takes math to do global illumination, which is one big reason Vue renders slower - it does GI, Poser does not.  It does area lights also.  And if it were integrated into Poser, all the shader support would be 100% native - but it'd never happen, just a pipe dream.

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I never said the Poser renderer didn't produce excellent quality (with the needed work); just that the single render engine scheme was too slow for use as an actual end stage. The network rendering, if it performs as I hope, could change that. The real question will be how much of a system hog the remote nodes will be; if they can run in tandem with Vue's Rendercows, then those of us with any kind of renderfarm would have the ability to dual render scene elements for later compositing, or two separate scenes at the same time (and yes, I do know that the master workstation would have to be a MASTER to handle that kind of memory load. It's also about upgrade time again.... >:D ). The only problem with the Poser/Vue integration idea is that one shader scheme would pretty much have to be scrapped. A lot of the compatibility issues there are due to the translations that have to occur, as the app's shader schemes are fundamentally incompatible. Aside from the fact that one would just about have to buy the other out for it to ever happen....

Attached Link: Realtime character animation in DAZ studio

So far I have not been impressed by the outdoor scene renders (with no figures )ive seen posted by C6pro users.

I actually own the older C4PRO
and the outdoor stuff come im still seeing in CP6 is nowhere near
the realism that I can get in  my Vue6 easel

im not even talking "ecosystems" just the depth  and realism o the skies and horizons. etc

I would also add that ones software choices are always affected by ones hardware
capability and workflow,subject matter preferences.
for me having 2 fairly capable MACs configured indenticaly has been
a big help. and as a rare poser user who has lost all interest  in  Organic figures
this issue of Shaders( skin&hair) is rather moot for my output.

this is why Vue 6 "easel" which imports poser animations  is sufficient
for my  vast outdoor  landscape renders and Cinema 4D takes care of all other  types including ,obviously, toon renders.

on the issue of viewport responsiveness if one are truly interested in rendering alot of animations in rich environments one should really start to consider rendering separate layered elements and compositng them in post.
none of the big CG houses cram everything in one scene and try to work with the characters  in there ,not ILM not WETA (LOTR) no one.

BTW DS 1.7 has a neat tool for real time Character animation

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

So far I have not been impressed by the outdoor scene renders (with no figures )ive seen posted by C6pro users. I'm hoping there are untapped resources lurking in the program somewhere to propel it beyond a Bryce level of low quality.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&amp;userid=323368

"So far I have not been impressed by the outdoor scene renders (with no figures )ive seen posted by C6pro users."

Neither am I, it's obvious that DAZ has focussed way to mcuh on copying Poser features in C6, instead of improving the outdated landscapes features. It seems like DAZ is spending al it's energy on trying to take poser out of the market and winning poser users over to their side, instead of expanding into new areas and generating new users.

"I'm hoping there are untapped resources lurking in the program somewhere to propel it beyond a Bryce level of low quality. "

Don't count on it, it seems like DAZ lacks serious innovation, inspiration and knowledge to do so. All the added was a scene wizard and a bit of ocean and to be perfectly honest the old C5 plugins do a better job. The scene wizard seems to be a waste of time also. They're still using hopelessly outdated materials and vegetation in C6.

I'm sure C6 will generate some nice funds for DAZ, even after lot's have returned C6, but I'm afraid all these new resources will only be used to try and gain  the upper hand in the poser software market, instead of getting C6 uo to date. It's very clear what DAZ want to use C6 for...... independancy from EF and another application to push their content. It's a shame, they own such cool applications and yet fail to utilize, modernize and innovate them.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

it's obvious that DAZ has focussed way to mcuh on copying Poser features in C6, instead of improving the outdated landscapes features. Frankly, they didn't even draw on their Daz Studio know how to get Carrara 6 Pro to include the hair props when a pz3s is opened. I barely know how to use Carrara at this point, but I can safely say that it handles Poser files far worse than Daz Studio.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&amp;userid=323368

Correction, some hair props don't show up, even though the name of the prop appears in the items list. Some do show up.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&amp;userid=323368

Quote - Would yo ube willing to pay a few hundered dollars MORE for poser if they did?

Odds are, that's how much the license would cost.

Why bother w/ Vue's? It's nice, but 3Delight is far, far cheaper, and does everything Firefly does (and then some) - much faster. BTW - yes, 3Delight has Ambient Occlusion and such (and it can be implemented in D|S - pwSurface does a little of that w/ AO now).

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Quote - Carrara must be the smallest place in the 3d universe because the microscopic Poser imports are giants in comparison to Carrara content.

That may be a pre-scaling thing. Poser meshes are typically 1% the size of a std. per-unit size in most modellers, so C6 may accidentally be overcompensating for that (or more likely there's a switch flipped wrong in the import scaling section of your setup :) ).

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Quote - If you turn down quality low enough, and use unrealistic-enough lighting, you can render very quickly in Vue.  It takes math to do global illumination, which is one big reason Vue renders slower - it does GI, Poser does not.

Indeed - I love GI; and Vue 5 renders (on the Mac anyway) runs at a fairly respectable speed, even on my G5 rig. OTOH, it's a one-way shot - once you import, you'd better really like the pose and morphs...

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Quote - The only problem with the Poser/Vue integration idea is that one shader scheme would pretty much have to be scrapped

Keep Vue's - it actually makes sense when you use it, w/o all the spaghetti. Opinions ab't Poser shaders aside, it also makes technical sense to keep the shader that already works w/ the renderer.

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Quote - I actually own the older C4PRO
and the outdoor stuff come im still seeing in CP6 is nowhere near
the realism that I can get in  my Vue6 easel

You're talking ab't the diff between Vue's primary focus (environments) and Carrara's (more towards animation and rendering, with a whole suite of other features included). C1.1 (my latest version) has no such thing as a terrain generator or atmospheres, etc.

Honestly - if Vue had a better importer and a way to actually composite/morph/pose figures in-app? I would've jumped that way ages ago. As it is, they don't.

--

Me, I'll plonk down for a copy of C6 when time actually permits, then play with it a bit. Until then, I have no judgements on the proggie itself, though if it does what the feature list says it does, it'll be sufficient for me to delete Poser from my disks; something that hasn't occurred for ab't 7+ years now.

/P

Something positive I can say about Carrara 6 Pro. It appears to have a full animation system, with separate key frame timelines for each moved or altered part or prop. Also, once you load your Runtime folder into the Content browser, the Poser content works pretty well. Oddly, for me, Carrara seems to support Poser's pz3 files a lot better than the Daz Studio files which will crash the program.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&amp;userid=323368

Quote - Unfortunately, it has nothing like what faceoff and bagginsbill have contributed to Poser for realism in skin.

one word - SkinVue :)
Provided you have at least Vue x Infinite

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Buy stuff on RedBubble

... and you don't use a 64-bit OS (last time I checked anyway).

My Freebies

Btw: Apollo works in C6. 

I am going to start a thread in the Carrara forum to help gather usage info if anyone wants to add info

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Here is the link.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2711492

No trolls please. :)

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

*... and you don't use a 64-bit OS (last time I checked anyway).

*That does still seem to be the case.   

Quote - " .... I registered my C5P at DAZ less than two weeks ago, giving them my serial number to verify and succeeding to the point that I qualified for a free upgrade. Fine, except my free upgrade says I have an invalid serial number. So I've had C6P since Wednesday, but I can't install or use it. I e-mailed DAZ immediately. Got a responsemore than 24 hours later that their Tech people would "look into it." So now it's Saturday and my C6P is still not installed. No word from their "Tech people."

I considered buying another upgrade, but what if the problem is that it can't read my serial number? Then I'm out a small but useful chunk of money. I even considered buying a new full license (a similar problem occurred with my Hex 2.0 license, and I gave up and bought a one-month PC and a new Hex 2.1 license), but based on what I see here, I think I'll wait until the product catches up with the promise. Who knows? Maybe what I have already was worth every penny?

M

Not to state the obvious, but did you try CALLING?.  they have a very friendly customer phone service which I have used several times for simple tech questions (better than forums) and purchases. In this days of cyber world, people have really loose the personal touch to the point that they don't even think about talking to one enother.

There was a similar problem with Bryce's serial number when I upgraded to 5. They sent out new serials. Also, what is 3delight?

3delight is renderman compliant reyes render engine.
D|S has a stripped down version of it hardwired.
http://www.3delight.com/en/

Friends don't let friends use booleans.

Attached Link: http://www.3delight.com/en/index.php/products/3delight/3delight_overview

DAZ bought a license for commercial use of the source code, and incorporated it into D|S.