chippwalters opened this issue on Sep 07, 2007 · 52 posts
chippwalters posted Fri, 07 September 2007 at 11:30 PM
Here's a work in progress of a German Free Energy Device which will be part of an illustration for a book. In the past, I've used Lightwave and SketchUp among other 3D programs to create models-- some of which are up on C3D currently (including the recent Hay Bales). But, I have to say, my modeler of choice is Vue.
Now before anyone starts hootin' and hollerin' (Texas slang!), let me tell you why I like Vue so much for modelling these days. Primarily, the number one reason is...it's really very, very fast to make models like the one above. Much faster than if I had to do it in Silo or Modo or Lightwave or SketchUp and then texture and import. Now, this is not to say Vue can model anything you can think of, but there are plenty it CAN model.
In my mind there are 4 basic ways to model in Vue:
This model is done using 1 and 3 from above.
This device is part of a rendering for a book. The time period is post WWII and some of the fantastic scientific German devices are being discovered.
This model, while looking complex, is ridiculously simple. That's the wonder with terrain modeling. In Vue 6, terrains can now be 16-bit grayscales. This means you can get great detail in them. One of the great things about terrains, is once you've built the terrain map in Photoshop, you now have a built in template for RGB, Bump, Luminosity and Specular maps as well. All you have to do is convert your map to RGB from 16-bit grayscale, and Photoshop away on it.
About this model:
First off, the device is symmetrical about the Y axis, so the only modeling which needs to be done is on the side you're viewing, then using VueTools, just mirror. BTW, I'm hoping there will be a VueTools for Esprit in Vue 7.
The device (half) is comprised of these parts:
The outer shell - a simple torus with bool subtracted cylinders: one for this side, one for the opposite side and one for the inside. Then there are a number of radially symmetrically placed cubes which are also subtracted from the opposite side.
The spindle - a simple cone with the end a bool subtract cylinder.
The spindle stand- a simple terrain built using altTerrainBuilder and Pshop
And the inside of the outer shell (plus some nurnies on the outside) is all a single terrain built in Photoshop. The originating map is 16-bit grayscale at 512x512. It is imported and auto-sized to a 1024x1024 terrain, and the Diffusive button pressed once. This give a very slight amount of radius to all parts-- a place where highlights will show.
Because the terrain is slightly larger than 'this side' of the outer shell, the nurnies show up outside the rim, and because the outer shell is a torus, they are dissolve back into the slope.
The floor is just a couple cubes with a 'hole' cube subtracted. That's it for now.
chippwalters posted Fri, 07 September 2007 at 11:36 PM
Here's the grayscale map which is used to 'drive' the terrain. Note it's a JPEG, so if you try it you'll see it doesn't render as well as the image above-- but it should give you a clue as to how this works.
sittingblue posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 1:27 AM
You are truly a way-shower. Great job.
Charles
wabe posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 3:01 AM
Yeah, just awesome. Not that I am proud about this period of our history at all, but sometime German ingeneering brought very interesting results indeed. Especially when modelled in Vue of course.
One day your ship comes in - but you're at the airport.
LMcLean posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 8:06 AM
LMcLean posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 9:37 AM
wabe posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 9:56 AM
I think when you read exactly what Chipp explained, the wheel is done with a terrain, not via cylinder and displacement mapping. Maybe you try that instead.
One day your ship comes in - but you're at the airport.
Peggy_Walters posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 10:04 AM
JPEG is only 8 bits, so it lost a lot of its resolution. I think Chipp is using TGA or some other 16 bit format.
Chipp - fantastic looking object!
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dburdick posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 10:29 AM
Wow Chipp, this is really impressive. I would have never thought that this could be modeled in Vue. I like the title - "German Free" - does that mean the absence of anything German? (LOL).
Aldaron posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 12:48 PM
This was used on a standard terain and applied as a picture, used the x2 a couple times to get a higher resolution. It's only a preview image, not final.
chippwalters posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 3:21 PM
Here's the latest. I think the model is done now and I can start applying textures.
LMcLean, Yes, Walther and Peggy are correct. I'm using 16-bit TIF files which can be loaded into Vue on a terrain. One of the cool things about them is I can work with them in Pshop with layers, save them and the layer infor stays intact. Then when I open in Vue, it reads them fine...layers and all. This is a tremendous workflow saver. I just tweak a layer in Pshop, save, then reload the TIF in Vue. No 'exporting' necessary.
Dave, a 'Free Energy' device is a ficticious perpetual motion machine. The idea is somehow friction is overcome and once this thing starts spinning, it will spin forever. So, in the book, the Germans created it from some alien technology and it is discovered 70 years later...still spinning.
About the changes from last WIP. I used VueTools to create the smaller device on the right, then added a single terrain to it for the openings. then created another VueTools cylinder with radius to get the glass bowl. The mounting brackets for the larger device are actually part of the original terrain which I posted above. I ended up making it larger. I quickly modeled a few bolts and placed them around. I again used VueTools to radius the cubes I used before for the concrete floor stand.
I'm next on to mapping and I'll start with an Ambient Occlusion rendered from TOP view (smaller version below) to help drive the 'dirt and grime.' I explain more as I go. Texture mapping this is done pretty much the way Stefan-Morrell does in his Hard Surfaces Textures tutorial.
FrankT posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 4:26 PM
This should be an entertaining tutorial, thanks Chipp!
Powertec posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 5:16 PM
Great Work!
LMcLean posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 6:45 PM
Quote - I think when you read exactly what Chipp explained, the wheel is done with a terrain, not via cylinder and displacement mapping. Maybe you try that instead.
Wabe, Yes I seem to have missed that step. Thanks for pointing this out. :) > Quote - LMcLean, Yes, Walther and Peggy are correct. I'm using 16-bit TIF files which can be loaded into Vue on a terrain. One of the cool things about them is I can work with them in Pshop with layers, save them and the layer infor stays intact. Then when I open in Vue, it reads them fine...layers and all. This is a tremendous workflow saver. I just tweak a layer in Pshop, save, then reload the TIF in Vue. No 'exporting' necessary.
This looks like another good thread. IMO it would be impossible to model this amount of detail in any 3D application this fast. Chipp, Forgive me if you've answered this already, but do you find you blur the .tiff image file first in Photoshop or do you use the diffuse in the Terrain Editor to soften the shapes? Do you load the Ambient Occlusion map into the bump channel of the material? Great work and looking forward to seeing your progress. :)
dlk30341 posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 7:07 PM
Stunning!
madmaxh posted Sat, 08 September 2007 at 8:41 PM
Excellent modelling. Is this the drive that powered the Vril fighters?
chippwalters posted Sun, 09 September 2007 at 3:33 AM
OK, been working on the Terrain Map textures. Using the tutorial above and adding a few tweaks of my own, I've generated the below 3 maps. The first is an RGB map, the second the Bump map and the third is the reflection map (the 'bolts' are all white a very reflective!). The maps originally were created at 1024x1024, but I've reduced them here so you can better see them. I used the above Ambient Occlusion image as the top layer with an opacity of 60 and set to multiply, so only the dark areas show.
chippwalters posted Sun, 09 September 2007 at 4:22 AM
And here's the first render of it...Not too bad. The bump is too strong and the outer case needs work. None of the other textures are done, I just threw some on. I'll tweak the bump and then work on the outer part of it.
vincebagna posted Sun, 09 September 2007 at 4:57 AM
Very impressive! I never thought of the terrain editor as a modelling tool... I just need to revise my thought now ;)
mrsparky posted Sun, 09 September 2007 at 6:27 PM
I'm using Ac3d to make some primitives and then joing then together with Vue primitives (in Vue 5) and exporting as .OBJ that can result in "lumpy models" in Poser unless you smooth the vertices in UVmapper.
If I save as 3ds and then convert to OBJ using Deep Exploration - the OBJ model can be huge.
Setting material names and OBJ groups in vue is easy enough but despite what methods of construction (as above) very often when you bring into Poser the material colours are all screwed up.
Plus some of the objects box mapping is screwed up. When using a box map some bits are rotated 90 degree and you have rotate that back to the right angle.
chippwalters posted Sun, 09 September 2007 at 7:30 PM
mrsparky,
There's really not a lot of uv mapping going. The terrain map is a flat projection map, with a cubic noise layer applied to create some dirt and grime back 'in the terrain.' I don't export anything, it all stays in Vue.
LMcLean posted Sun, 09 September 2007 at 11:21 PM
chippwalters posted Sun, 09 September 2007 at 11:31 PM
LMcLean posted Sun, 09 September 2007 at 11:41 PM
Yeah, I actually like to play Halo with my kids so that's what came to mind, but they'd look nice on my father's tractor too! lol.
LMcLean posted Mon, 10 September 2007 at 12:36 AM
Chipp your energy device is looking great with the textures applied. I almost forgot to ask. Are you using a 300, 600 or other dpi image map to drive the terrain? I used 300 dpi and there was some antialiasing on the edges of the tire, so I clicked the "diffuse" to soften. I also made sure the image was 16 bit. Besides using a 16 bit image, could you tell me what your method is to achieve the smoothness in your model? (Blur image in Photoshop, Diffuse etc.) Thanks
chippwalters posted Mon, 10 September 2007 at 12:57 AM
LMcLean,
DPI doesn't matter. Only the image resolution matters. I'm using a 650x650 pixel 16-bit TIF image to drive the terrain, and I'm using a 1024x1024 pixel RGB image for the RGB, Bump and Reflectance layers. I press the Diffusive once after importing my terrain.
-Chipp
mrsparky posted Mon, 10 September 2007 at 4:02 AM
Thanks Chipp - great idea you have here - looking forward to seeing more.
war2 posted Mon, 10 September 2007 at 6:14 AM
some great terrain modelling going on here chipp, inspiring to say the least
LMcLean posted Mon, 10 September 2007 at 10:01 AM
Quote - LMcLean,
DPI doesn't matter. Only the image resolution matters. I'm using a 650x650 pixel 16-bit TIF image to drive the terrain, and I'm using a 1024x1024 pixel RGB image for the RGB, Bump and Reflectance layers. I press the Diffusive once after importing my terrain.
-Chipp
Great thanks Chipp!
zglows posted Tue, 11 September 2007 at 2:26 PM
this is great!!!!
chippwalters posted Wed, 12 September 2007 at 5:26 AM
Here's the latest. I've finally finished the texture for the outside housing. Tried unsuccessfully to create a procedural texture, but ending up using some JPG RGB, Reflection, and Bump textures to create this image.
I ended up having to 'bake to polys' the outside housing from the original boolean primitives as the cylinder map wouldn't take. BTW, I also had to ROTATE the mapping projection and use THIS SET OF MAPPING NOTES when I do such things.
The concrete isn't finished..just a placeholder for now.
FrankT posted Wed, 12 September 2007 at 5:36 AM
That looks pretty amazing now Chipp. Do you mind if I ask how you generated the AO pass image? I've been trying for ages to get a decent looking one but without much success - I can generate it fine in the demo of C4D but I can't then save it :)
Frank
chippwalters posted Wed, 12 September 2007 at 5:52 AM
Actually, it was pretty easy. Use the 'Flat White' material on your object and the ground as well.
I use Camea 1 (top) and set the camera focal distance to something large, like 200. Then I use the 'No Atmosphere' from the 'Others' collection, turn on Ambient Occlusion in the Atmosphere Editor, set the Overall Skylight color to WHITE, and the Light balance slider all the way left to "Ambient".
Then render.
HTH, Chipp
chippwalters posted Wed, 12 September 2007 at 6:09 AM
Here are the image maps for the outside of the generator (shown 50% size)
The RGB Map:
The Bump Map:
and the Reflection AND Specular map:
One of the interesting things for this render, is I probably don't need a Specular map, as I will be using an HDRI image to light it and with HDRI's and environment maps in general, the highlights show up more as reflections, not specular. Not to say specular is ignored, only that it's less visible in HDRI renderings. This is an old trick which has been used for awhile now in car renderings like:
chippwalters posted Wed, 19 September 2007 at 12:43 PM
Here's the first pass at a scene render. It's supposed to be in a bunker underground with oil spills on the floor and a very sparse environment. I still have a bit of work to do. Keep in mind, everything in this scene is modeled in Vue.
FrankT posted Wed, 19 September 2007 at 1:00 PM
looks pretty damn good if you ask me
wabe posted Wed, 19 September 2007 at 1:42 PM
Looks just awesome Chipp. The light is fantastic! But of course the modelling too. A Vue highlight I would say this image is.
One day your ship comes in - but you're at the airport.
LMcLean posted Wed, 19 September 2007 at 3:38 PM
Looks fantastic Chipp. I especially like the water on the floor and the lighting.
FrankT posted Wed, 19 September 2007 at 3:54 PM
I reckon you should submit this to e-on for their picture of the day
chippwalters posted Wed, 19 September 2007 at 4:55 PM
Thanks for the nice comments. I hate the floor and need to add more detail overall in the building...but the problem is that it's supposed to be 'stark' with nothing it...like it is already. Hmmm. Just curious, does the blue bother anyone?
FrankT posted Wed, 19 September 2007 at 5:16 PM
nope, it sort of looks like an electrical discharge of some sort so it's pretty appropriate I'd say
Powertec posted Wed, 19 September 2007 at 6:24 PM
Looks great!
Ummmmm.... Is it supposed to be spinning?
chippwalters posted Wed, 19 September 2007 at 7:39 PM
I believe it is spinning in the book, but not necessarily at this time as this picture is taken in 2007. Let's see, it took 23 hours to render with 'optimized' settings...adding motion blur for a spinning wheel will quadruple that-- but yours is a very good point!
I talked with the author of the book, and we've agreed to add some more detail in the image..which IMO it really needs. I think we'll add a rail and perhaps an overhead crane. I'll keep you posted.
LMcLean posted Thu, 20 September 2007 at 1:20 PM
chippwalters posted Thu, 20 September 2007 at 2:17 PM
LMcLean, thanks for your comments. I will certainly give some of them a try. I agree about the blue being to strong. But, it does provide a sense of scale for the room. I'll try toning it down. The floor does need work...I'm thinking I'll use some worn chevron stripes and some German warnings on it as well.
I'll try w/out the space frame shadows, but I think they are helpful in adding some necessary detail to a mundane surface.
best,
Chipp
LMcLean posted Thu, 20 September 2007 at 2:35 PM
Quote - LMcLean, thanks for your comments. I will certainly give some of them a try. I agree about the blue being to strong. But, it does provide a sense of scale for the room. I'll try toning it down. The floor does need work...I'm thinking I'll use some worn chevron stripes and some German warnings on it as well. I'll try w/out the space frame shadows, but I think they are helpful in adding some necessary detail to a mundane surface. best, Chipp
Yes, the blue does give the room a sense of scale and the worn chevron stripes for the floor does sound interesting. I must say you are an inspiriation and I look forward to seeing more.
chippwalters posted Fri, 21 September 2007 at 3:19 AM
Well, I think this is about it. LMcLean, I did take some of your advice...I got rid of the shadows on the floor, but IMO the image needs the blue in the back. I've a couple minor tweaks and then will render a big one. I created a pretty neat chain link texture, which I'll have to share. Vue Tools on the fencing. Thanks to Wabe for the GERMAN text which you can't read, but will be able to in the final. It needs better anti-aliasing as well.
Only a little touch up. Adjusted levels, removed a small amount of noise with NeatImage plugin, and that's about it.
Peggy_Walters posted Fri, 21 September 2007 at 7:36 AM
Wow - this turned out great! Love the lighting!
Peggy
LVS - Where Learning is Fun!
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LMcLean posted Fri, 21 September 2007 at 8:29 AM
Chipp looks great! You should be proud of this one. I like the fence around the Energy Device. It gives the sense of a machine that is dangerous and unpredictable. The purple looks better toned down, and I see you focused the light beam to be more on the subject. Nice!
FrankT posted Fri, 21 September 2007 at 8:44 AM
Oh yeah - this is outstanding, no-one can ever say again you can't model in Vue :)
Powertec posted Fri, 21 September 2007 at 11:37 AM
Looks Great! I'm going to have to spend time with your decal tut.
Now I want to read the book! Let us know when it comes out. please!
chippwalters posted Sun, 23 September 2007 at 3:12 AM
The completed render is on my gallery. Click the image to see it.
Stats:
The final render was under 200,000 polys and done at 2400 x 1440 resolution. I ended up using an Environment mapping atmosphere with my own IBL map and GI set at 0. There were 49 spotlights in a 7x7 grid a bit larger than the fence and they were positioned above the scene. A single 'hero light' provided the directional light. All of the lights had volumetric lighting turned on.
The entire rendering took just under 9 hours using a 5 machine HyperVue network I have here at home.