Hi everyone I'm an old salt here in Renderosity and I've been interested in fractals for a very long time even have the original Autodesk's Chaos software user guide copyright 1990 by James Gleik in front of me as I write this. After the early versions of Fractint I hadn't realized that fractal software had come such a long way.

My interest has been recently re-ignited while cruising Renderosity and viewing some of the many wonderful fractal renders uploaded by the membership and didn't realize that such control in artistic composition and manipulation was possible with fractals. I quickly followed leads to Rykk's, Lyne, CarolSassy, Kansas and Dreamwarriors work. Elizabeth Tomchek from 5th Dimension Studios, to Bunny to Toxic Girlfriend over at DiviantArt.

I quickly logged on here and did some searching because I just had to know what software was being used to produce these high quality masterpieces and how it was being used. As a result I've downloaded Ultra Fractal v. 3.05 trial version to see how I like it and after some reading I realized that Apophysis 2.02 was the only version fully capable of compatibility with UF. So I downloaded that as well.

But after searching and looking around some more and eyeing the scripts I began to realize that the newer betas were capable of that "in your face almost 3D" renditions and further realized that I was just starting to scratch the surface. I stand here a total newbie to modern Fractal art.

I checked Xenodream but they don't have a demo version available and the software is too expensive to buy on a whim. But if any of you good people own it, I would like to know what you think of it.

After viewing Toxic Girlfriend's work and reading that she used APO 2.03c for her work I decided to download the latest version and see how I would fair with it. Upon downloading I immediately found out I had a problem with it. Although I could see the beautiful flame in the editor, adjust and mutation displays I could only see a large hour glass for the main display.

Going back to sourceforge.net for help I quickly further realized I wasn't the only one with the problem. I then decided that version 2.03c would suffice me just as well but after downloading it, it quickly told me that, that beta had expired. So I sat there wondering why they would allow the download of expired software? So being just a little rational I wondered if my earlier installation of the 2.06c version had anything to do with the beta expired alert? Any ideas?

Other possible complications could be that I'm on a 5 year old Pentium III system with 180 GB of disk space, 512mb RAM, an old Radion "All in Wonder" (I believe equivalent to the 9000 series) and Windows ME as OS. Yes, I know, it's time for a new one and It'll come soon enough but in the meantime this is what I have.

Any and all advice, tips, tutorials are welcomed, and I'm hoping to meet you all here in the Fractal forum.

Quest

The dreaded hourglass in Apo 2.06 could be attributed to a couple of possibilities, so I'll give you a couple of answers that have rectified the problem for some other people...

The number of random images you have Apo trying to create when the program starts up HAS to be more than 1 - so you will need to open your Apophysis Options, select the Random tab, and change the Random Batch batch size to 5 or more (mine is set to 10) - close down Apo after changing this, then reopen it to see if that has fixed your problem...
Mutlithreading and older versions of Windows (Me, 98) - again, open your Apophysis Options, and make sure that Multithreading is turned Off on the General tab - close Apo, then reopen to see if this has fixed the problem...

I hope one of these solutions fixes your problem, and we get to see some amazing works posted for our viewing pleasure... lol!

Who? Me?

Thanks T for the tips. The multithread option was already disabled by default and I changed the random batch option down as you suggested and went further...to 3 but still the hourglass prevails.

Further to my dismay, I have discovered that 2.06c didn’t want to render to anything and upon further reading I learned that I needed to download Flam3 and a whole bunch of little odds and ends, which aren’t apparent on the surface and must be sorted out. It seems that Flam3 has replaced HQI (Flam3 is the improved HQI and same company as I understand it) as the in house renderer in later versions.

But this didn’t clear my hourglass problem. In fact I was not able to resolve that issue. I downloaded another time unlimited version of 2.06 from Gygrasok which also was hourglass happy. But my rendering problem began to show some improvement.

I did find a link to Joel Faber’s Apophysis 2.04 with no time limit also and appears fully functional. And while drudging through this quest I further learned that all successive betas and upgrades should be parked in Apophysis base version 2.02c folder since these other upgrades usually only come in the form of executable files and require some of the other files that come with the base 2.02c version. So it appears that you can have several Apophysis executable versions all residing in the same folder apparently because the software is a work in progress.

But I have encountered other problems relating to the png file format as they relate to transparency. I’m on Photoshop 7.0.1 and I can create a 24bit png file with no background and save that file to disk. I can then come back later and open that file and it’s background remains transparent and transferable to the web.

While exporting a flame from Apophysis you can set the bit depth and by default it’s set at 32 floating. So I would imagine that there’s enough bit depth and that the image should open in Photoshop with tranparent background as you can set in Apophysis’ Display option in the png panel where I selected “flam3 style” and have “show transparency” checked on. As should be the case according to several tutorials I’ve read. No matter what I try, my flames import into Photoshop with non-transparent backgrounds.

I’ve just completed downloading GIMP. I’m wondering that since parameters can be imported into Apophysis from GIMP if I wouldn’t have better luck importing saved png’s with no background into GIMP. We shall see. I’ve already tried Paintshop Pro to no avail.

And to further befuddle me, I downloaded Liz’s “Lace Spirals” script. It ran well as I installed the different Apophysis executable versions and then, all of sudden when I tried to run the script, the script editor refused to acknowledge the variable “calculatecolor” which Liz says in her script that if the editor bucks at this, then I need to upgrade my “functions.asc” file. Now, so what’s happened and where would I go to download a fresh, upgraded functions script file?

Again, now as before, I would greatly appreciate any help you guys can give me. I’ve done a lot of researching so far and slowly getting myself together but as of yet I’ve not gotten my hands dirty with actually creating fractal art. I’m running at fever pitch and I’m afraid the coal will run out before the engine reaches its destination.

Quest

Hmmm... I just loaded up Joel's Apo 2.04 and rendered a .png file with transparency using both Flam3 and the internal Apo renderer (little cog icon on main screen) - both opened just fine in my PSP v9 - showed transparency perfectly...

Apophysis outputs the transparency setting in an alpha channel in the .png file - maybe there is a setting in Photoshop 7's options that you need to set to get the transparency to show properly?

The latest functions.asc can be found at http://apophysis.wikispaces.com/Scripts-Utilities

The problem with Apo 2.06 and older versions of Windows (98 and ME) appears to be related to the programming within the Apophysis code to take advantage of more than 1Gb ram while rendering... unfortunately, this is going to take a new version of Apophysis to be written before that can be fixed...

Who? Me?

Hum…When I export flame through flam3-render.exe and the MSDOS window comes up the first 4 lines read “Out of environment space” then it proceeds to say that it’s rendering the file and shows the entire path and file name (c;Apophysis 2.0SavedApophysis-nnnnn-nnn.png), it shows me the percentage processed and the ETA. Finally when it’s done it shows that the file was saved as 0000.png and no matter how many flames I do this way they are always saved as 0000.png writing automatically over the old 0000.png. This 0000.png is the only png file saved. When this file is opened in Photoshop it comes up with a none transparent background. If I try to open this same png file in Paintshop Pro 7.02 I get an unidentified error #208 and the file wont open.

My question now is; What do I have to do so that flam3 doesn’t say “Out of environment space” and is this the reason I’m not getting the transparency?

Quest

Update:

I have collaborated with a friend who has both Photoshop 7.01 and Apophysis 2.06 and both these programs run flawlessly on her system including being able to render transparent backgrounds. She’s on Win XP.

Quest

Looks like you don't have a lot of RAM free to do the render properly...

The "out of environment space" error is known to Microsoft, and they have a fix for it at the following webpage

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/230205

Try that, and see if it helps your images process better in Flam3.

What happens if you try to use the internal Apophysis renderer - the little yellow cog thing on the main window??

Who? Me?

Well T, finally some headway! Thank you very much! You have no idea how happy you’ve made me. It’s not the perfect solution but a solution nonetheless. I followed your link but the procedure they offered was not for the Windows ME I have. My system does not carry the sysedit feature they suggest. Nor does my system allow individual program memory access through the program’s properties tab. But it pointed me in the right direction.

Basically what they were saying was that I needed to access the Config.sys file and either alter or add a line (SHELL=C:COMMAND.COM /E:4096 /P) to extend memory allocation for non-windows programs. This I did manually using Notepad once I found the file buried in the C:/WindowsCommandEBD directory.

It only allows for a maximum of 4096 kb but that was enough to at least get Joel Faber’s 2.04 version outputting transparent backgrounds but only in “render to disk” mode (the little cog icon in the menu). The “Exporting flame” method still shows the “out of environment space” warning just as before.

Unfortunately, these changes still don’t fix any of the situations for any 2.06 version I have. Nevertheless, hey, something is better than nothing and I’m grateful for the fact that I wont have to spend time meticulously and tediously extracting the fractals from their backgrounds in Photoshop. Although I had already devised a way to do so it still would have been time consuming and not as exact.

Tdierikx, all I can do is extend my thanks and profound appreciation for all the help you’ve given me and I can only hope that someday I could return the favor somehow.

Quest

It is always my pleasure to help out Quest.

I'll talk to the developers/programmers about seeing if they can make the next Apo upgrade more compatible with older versions of Windows too, OK? I'm pretty sure it has to do with the coding relating to being able to use more than 1gb RAM to render with, and it should be possible to code an IF statement somewhere to recognise Windows versions that haven't got the large memory function, and bypass the subroutine...

Joel's Apo 2.04 is a really nice version though, and you aren't missing out on too many of the new functions that are available in 2.06 - a few of the new functions still have small bugs anyways... lol!

I have a copy of Gygrazok's 2.04zplus here that still works fine - it has a few more variations than Joel's version - just holler if you want me to upload it to my server for you to download and try, OK?

Who? Me?

T, that would be super! I have Gygraxok’s 2.06 version and didn’t know he had a 2.04 and yes indeed I would like to try it out. Just let me know when it’s ready for download.

You know, it’s the funniest thing as an after thought, not while it was happening to me but right after I made the changes to my Config.sys file I was running test renders to disk option and had checked on “shutdown on complete” and didn’t think twice about it so when the render finished all of a sudden Windows is asking me to enter my password. Problem is I’ve never configured my computer for password protection! I thought I had screwed something up royally and started to break into a sweat. After a while I realized this kept happening after the completion of each render and upon making the connection I realized that the shutdown wasn’t just for the render window as I thought. So now I leave it unchecked. Jeez did I freak!

Yes, the older versions of Windows love to hog up all the available memory for itself and distribute it piecemeal. I remember before Windows when DOS programs couldn’t be bigger than 512 bytes and executables were .com not .exe. So what was Microsoft thinking when they only allowed 4096 kb of memory maximum in Win 95, 98 and ME for DOS programs at a time when programs can run in the megabyte range?

Invoking the command.com environment and changing system files is not for the faint of heart and something most people don’t do too often and with good reason. So a few well placed; if…then…else coded subroutines would help a great deal those of us with older OS.

Much obliged

Quest

Forum: Fractals

Subject: APO and beta troubles