It seems to be the same story everywhere you go.  Some people swear that Vista is the greatest OS ever, while others claim that Vista is the worst thing that's ever polluted their PC's.

If anyone's curious, here's what the good forumites over at NewTek (the makers of Lightwave) are raving / singing praises about re:Vista.

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72759

It all sounds a lot like a repeat of the same things that we've heard around here.  The "I am a banana!" forumite from Denmark argues strongly in favor of Vista -- insisting that the people who he knows all absolutely adore Vista.  While others in the thread positively hate Vista -- and still others are on the fence and struggling with it.  Hey -- there's even a couple of slaps & kudos directed at Macs in that thread -- so it should all have an entertainingly familiar ring to it.

That thread even contains the standard web-forum-style posts implying that people who dislike Vista have low IQ's & are incompetent (hidden under color of humor) -- while those on the other side issue counter-claims to the effect that such remarks sound like -- well, I'll just quote the post:

Heh, Neverko is starting to sound like some of the Mac-users that I know - everyone who doesn't realize why my operating system rules is an incompetent, thick skulled, misinformed fool - just a drone with an low IQ.

From what I'm gathering: an upgrade to Vista is a gamble.  You might win going that way, and you might not.  But I'm beginning to have almost as much fun just reading people's barbed comments as I am in educating myself on the subject. :a_grin:

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Been using it about 6 weeks or so now, I'm reasonably happy with it, lots of stuff running in the background with it and still feeling my way as to what I can or can't switch off.
Poser 6 and 7 are running fine on it and so is Vue6Inf and CS3.
I have an issue with tool tips not showing in Vue but I can't say what is causing that at this time!
Overall I don't find Vista that much different to XP once you switch some of the more superfluous things off like the side bar for instance, totally unneccesary bit of dross IMO!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

I hope e-frontier comes out with a pure Linux version before XP support runs out. For me (and a whole lot of other people outside of US) Vista is a no-no as long as I wish to be the one and only owner of my computer. And the only one able to use my credit card, for example. Vista still has some risky security holes, especially for people not interested in security aspects (a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save).

Beside of Poser I havn't any use of Windows (maybe because I don't do gaming). Linux runs mutch faster and smother with the same machine here. Even with a 3D desktop with some bells and wistles (another thing nobody really needs - better driver support is mutch more important for any OS).

---

Retailers here have been clobbered by the slow take up rate of VIsta.  Last week The Register ran a feature about it.

It's no news that Microsloth have decided to make XP available for a while longer.

Buying version 1.0 of anything is asking for trouble.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

I dunno, I use vista and I think it's great. I have less crashes now than I did with Xp and all my workflows run very smoothly.  my renders even come out much faster 1/2 the time of Xp.
my system is only scored at a 2.5 for windows experience index.

Quote - I hope e-frontier comes out with a pure Linux version before XP support runs out. For me (and a whole lot of other people outside of US) Vista is a no-no as long as I wish to be the one and only owner of my computer. And the only one able to use my credit card, for example. Vista still has some risky security holes, especially for people not interested in security aspects (a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save).

Beside of Poser I havn't any use of Windows (maybe because I don't do gaming). Linux runs mutch faster and smother with the same machine here. Even with a 3D desktop with some bells and wistles (another thing nobody really needs - better driver support is mutch more important for any OS).

Yup about all that Vista stuff you said and Linux is faster on my PC also. e-f can we have a native Linux running Poser now pweeeease. With a native Linux running Poser it would all be perfect.

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

*(a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save).

one comment.

Bovine Excrement.

Well my only experience so far with Vista is my bother's new PC which still refuses to see any XP machine on the network. Last week it suddenly decided he didn't have permission to view his own "My Documents" directory along with a few others so I had to learn how to go retake ownership of those directories for him. Not difficult with Google but I still haven't googled a clear fix for his networking issues.

My Freebies

I was dual booting XP & Vista till I realised I hadn't loaded Vista in over a month so it's now gone again.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Quote - *(a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save).

one comment.

Bovine Excrement.

 

Agreed.  In all the years I've used Windows machines, the only time I ever got a virus or otherwise had my security breached was when I deliberately let it happen.  Yes, deliberately.  It's a long story.  :)

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Quote - I dunno, I use vista and I think it's great. I have less crashes now than I did with Xp and all my workflows run very smoothly.  my renders even come out much faster 1/2 the time of Xp.
my system is only scored at a 2.5 for windows experience index.

 

Less crashes?  Never had a crash with XP.  I've had applications go bugfuck on me, hardware roll over and die but the OS has always been stable.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Vista is EVIL. I've NEVER crash with XP Home. In fact, I find it to be pretty damn stable.

I'll be switching to a Mac if my laptop ever dies. NOT Vista. Nope.

I only like Vista 64 because it has better driver support than XP 64. Other than that, my XP 64 machine is more stable and doesn't randomly BSOD on me while I'm typing in Word.

I'm waiting for SP1 to come out, then we'll see what happens.

I'm in a strange position. Been studying Vista online (about the 6th course so far), and it's got some good, some bad..it seems a bit intrusive in spots (lots of ties directly to MS for gadgets, etc)
I know someone who has Vista, and I've seen it in use, but aside from some bells and whistles (transparent 'windows'? ok...;) it's just another OS. In fact, until I got the @#$% automatic update turned off for Win 2k (a line in an ini file somewhere..;), some of the same features were starting to creep into that...

It's a non-issue for me right now, because my 5-year-old PC doesn't have the cojones to even boto the sucker (15gig needed for the OS? Is that code bloat or what?..;)

There are always those who have to puff themselves up with the latest thing, and disparage anyone who doesn't. I remember the original comments up above could have been said about
Poser 5, Vicky4, etc..;) If I went to Vista (and bought a new computer, which is what it would take..;) it would be my (lessee...Dos 2.1.,3.1.,5, ....carry the nine...11th operating system I've used...not counting Linux...;) I agree with the dreaded 'point oh' bit, and I can wait until the bugs are worked out..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Where can you still find the 64 bit version of XP? I'm tempted to snap up a couple copies before it dissappears!

Hi. I'm happy hyperlinky gerbil. For just one clicky I will show you the hidden things...

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

I found a seller on Amazon who carries it.

If you have a MSDN subscription, it is still online and you can download it there.

Quote - For me (and a whole lot of other people outside of US) Vista is a no-no as long as I wish to be the one and only owner of my computer. And the only one able to use my credit card, for example. Vista still has some risky security holes, especially for people not interested in security aspects (a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save).

Beside of Poser I havn't any use of Windows (maybe because I don't do gaming). Linux runs mutch faster and smother with the same machine here. Even with a 3D desktop with some bells and wistles (another thing nobody really needs - better driver support is mutch more important for any OS).

Very well said!

Quote - Hi. I'm happy hyperlinky gerbil. For just one clicky I will show you the hidden things...

Click the link to get the article that the user has been Pimping for days about Data going back to Microsoft.

to mylemonblue. Be honest and TELL ppl what you are linking to... Don't trick them.

MS has most of it's programs sending data back to them. All of their developer software does! That article is just trying to breed fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Sure.(less fun though) It's a article on http://news.softpedia.com "Forget about the WGA! 20+ Windows Vista Features and Services Harvest User Data for Microsoft - From your machine!" By: Marius Oiaga, Technology News Editor The actual link. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forget-about-the-WGA-20-Windows-Vista-Features-and-Services-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

Attached Link: http://isc.sans.org

> Quote - *(a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save). > > * > one comment. > > > Bovine Excrement. > * > *

Actually, most security sites (like the one linked above) will do comparisons among A/V suites as each new virus comes down the pike. It's kind of alarming how many of them don't catch the nasties... A Windows PC (or a Mac, or Linux PC) is never, ever perfectly safe with just A/V and software firewall. OSX and Linux are damned close to it, but no OS is perfect. None. I work with security issues professionally, and out of the hundreds of machines, scads of firewalls(software, real, and otherwise), and a metric ton of corporate security policy and procedures, I can tell you that I still see about one infected Windows machine per month, just off the corporate LAN. Most of them are IFRAME-injected exploits. The IP addy blocks and domain at my work is a bit popular with the cracker set. From personal experience, I have seen and demonstrated the following: A Windows box exposed to the public Internet (w/ no corporate security between it and World) will be taken over before you even get the first round of patches downloaded. A default Linux install with default security (and unpatched), will likely be compromised in a couple of days, unless you use a hardened distro. Macs and FreeBSD are about the only OSes that will last as default for more than a week, assuming someone doesn't brute-force their way in. Here's the trick - unless you are monitoring the network connection, you probably don't know you're infected. A smart bot-herder won't overload your box, and instead your zombified box will, for instance, send out only a few spams a minute (and not thousands per second). Multiply yours with the rest of a typical botnet (about 20k-40k), and you get a hefty outbound blast that looks just like normal traffic. /P

Yeah, Linux gets a mention in that NewTek thread, too.

I remember all of the yelling back when XP first hit the market -- I didn't agree with the naysayers back then.  And after awhile: it seemed that pretty much everyone eventually happily jumped onto the XP bandwagon.

Not so thus far with Vista -- it's about the most argued-over OS that I've ever seen.  Some users report that Vista works better than anything else ever has for them; while others claim that Vista destroyed their lives.

Frankly, I have to admit that I'm at something of a loss on this one.  I know that PC users will eventually be forced -- kicking and screaming in some cases -- to go over to whatever Microsoft cares to feed the majority of us with.

Right now, XP is working fine for me.  For now.  I don't hate anything & everything from Microsoft just because it's from Microsoft -- but Vista is too controversial to encourage me to head in that direction just yet.  If it was just a few whiners going on about it -- that would be one thing.  But not when the negative vs. positive comments ratio seems to run 60%-40% on the average.  With 60% being the negative.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Ya..I'm on XP and will stay there until I'm convinced. The only thing I will say, is the fact I'm on what is now almost a dinosaur system which I built nearly 4 years ago, with an AMD64 CPU...which has never seen a 64bit OS running through it.  Its a shame, really.

Are there that many 64bit programs available? Does it even matter at this point ?

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Quote - Ya..I'm on XP and will stay there until I'm convinced. The only thing I will say, is the fact I'm on what is now almost a dinosaur system which I built nearly 4 years ago, with an AMD64 CPU...which has never seen a 64bit OS running through it.  Its a shame, really.

Are there that many 64bit programs available? Does it even matter at this point ?

Sure there are... Vue, Cinema 4D...

While not a 64 bit app, Photoshop CS3 will take advantage of over 2 gigs of ram in a 64 bit system.

XPPro running fine and stable for years for me. With all service releases and following orders, no security problems.

I am going to build a new computer before the end of the year.

Two questions:

1)  If I purchase that 'builders version" of XP 64, will that yeild the advatages of a 64-bit system with regard to the announced PoserPro 64-bit render engine, and the 64-bit version of 3DSMax (planning to buy in before the end of year). In other words, will the XP-64 version cease to work for any reason over, say, a 3-year period. Has Microsoft stated it will stop making patches for the entire XP line?

2. If I happend to obtain a computer with Vista pre-loaded, is it possible to 
   a) Make a safety copy out to a DVD, which can be used to reinstall at some point and b) once I wipe the drives clean from the new computer, could I then install Win XP Pro 64?  I ask this because I heard it is no trivial thing to de-install Vista and then install XP.

Thank you

::::: Opera :::::

ninhalo5: "my renders even come out much faster 1/2 the time of Xp."

Say what?

Are you actually claiming that -- everything else being equal -- you experience a 100% increase in Poser render speed just because your are on Vista as opposed to XP?

That is an extrordinary claim. Do you stand behind it?

::::: Opera :::::

You have to keep checking Microsoft's page to see when they're going to end mainstream support for XP64.

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=8599

Usually they give a couple of years before mainstream support ends.

As far as Vista goes, if you buy a computer it should have the option of burning the operating system to disk. However, not many computers seem to come with the 64 bit version of Vista. My laptop did not. I had to buy Vista Ultimate separately.

wow man, this page is stretched. Yikes.

I had Vista preinstalled on a new laptop I bought and wanted to give it a chance because all of my other PC's have XP on them. I'll admit, I really like the graphical enhancements but there were several reasons it had to come off. 

First, was the inordinately long startup and shut down times - this is unbelievable when you consider that XP was touted by MS as having the quickest startup time - why the severe downshift with Vista?

Second, as somebody already mentioned, the number of processes running in the background! I mean, who's using this 'puter anyway - me or Microsoft?! Vista sure can make a fast new 'puter seem to be running very slowly. :)

Last and most serious was the incompatibility issues with so many software products. It was really hit or miss with each app. Some would install, some wouldn't or some would install but not work properly. If you know exactly what you want to be doing with your computer - who needs this hassle? 

So it's going to be XP SP2 for me until the next version of Windows comes out :)

• Rick

*" hope e-frontier comes out with a pure Linux version before XP support runs out."

*They have a couple more years to get that done, since Microsoft has extended XP support and XP will be here for a while longer http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197000165

No hurry and need to switch to Vista at all. I've used it and it failed to impress me, I'll stick to XP for a number of years.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

^^ same here, I think one would have to have a head injury to prefer Vista over XP64.  Lots of deal breaking disadvantages, no really useful advantage.  Filtering through the Microsoft BS is a bit painful but I don't see any must-have feature - all the dumb little calendar applets and movie viewers and automatic credit card caching junk  is the freeware garbage that's the first thing I'd uninstall.

My Freebies

I got a nice laugh out of this ZDnet quote about Vista:
"...unless you watch YouTube videos all day, you won't really need Aero..."

My Freebies

Quote - I know that PC users will eventually be forced -- kicking and screaming in some cases -- to go over to whatever Microsoft cares to feed the majority of us with.

Not necessarily - depending on what OSX and Linux do over the next year or two, MSFT may find themselves in trouble. Dell is already starting to sell Linux-loaded machines, Ubuntu is starting to gain a HUGE number of converts, and a Mac Mini is rather inexpensive these days for what you get. > Quote - 2) If I happend to obtain a computer with Vista pre-loaded, is it possible to a) Make a safety copy out to a DVD, which can be used to reinstall at some point and b) once I wipe the drives clean from the new computer, could I then install Win XP Pro 64? I ask this because I heard it is no trivial thing to de-install Vista and then install XP.

2a) Yes. You can also get a "restore" DVD from the manufacturer. 2b) Yep. You can install any OS you want to on an OEM (pre-loaded) machine. I do it all of the time. The drivers might be, well, "interesting" to get hold of with some models, but if you trace down the parts and their makers (vid card for instance), you can do it easily enough. Me, I'll stick with OSX and Linux @ home, with a little XP laptop for compatibility testing, and not much else. At work, I prolly won't have to see Vista (or its server equivalent) for at least another year (for the Server version, prolly much longer). MSFT is making noises about an "SP1" pack for Vista, but it would really have to fix a lot of bugs and crud before I (and employer) even bother to consider it. /P

Quote - *" hope e-frontier comes out with a pure Linux version before XP support runs out."

*They have a couple more years to get that done, since Microsoft has extended XP support and XP will be here for a while longer http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197000165

Want a Linux version? Specify the distro, and I think it'll go a long way to talking them into doing it. w/ DAZ and EF (and most other folks), the question of conversion seems to stop with "which distro?" Solve that and you can prolly talk them into it (to be honest, as long as you code to the Linux Standards Base and use common libraries, it shouldn't be a problem which distro, but...) /P

I'd say a Debian based distro would be good, Ubuntu springs to mind.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Quote - > Quote - I know that PC users will eventually be forced -- kicking and screaming in some cases -- to go over to whatever Microsoft cares to feed the majority of us with.

Not necessarily - depending on what OSX and Linux do over the next year or two, MSFT may find themselves in trouble. Dell is already starting to sell Linux-loaded machines, Ubuntu is starting to gain a HUGE number of converts, and a Mac Mini is rather inexpensive these days for what you get.

 

If MS doesn't quit doing some of what they are doing -- they might just find themselves in danger of a slipping market.  However -- realistically speaking -- the others have an awfully long ways to go before they can seriously be regarded as a dangerous challenge to Microsoft's near-total dominance in the overall desktop PC market.

Some of us geeky types might be tempted to flee MS, though.......which could be a building sign of long-term trouble for MS down the road.  If all true geeks were to decide en masse to jump over to Linux, then there's a chance that eventually grandma might be using Linux to download pictures of her grandkids & to get her e-mail, too.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

A lot of us have invested money in software that is Windows only. That makes it hard to switch. Also, Apple is charging a premium for the same hardware I can buy for less. Since the OS is chip locked, that turns me off to MacOS. Windows is like the Hotel California ;)

My 3D Computer has no internet access which is intended . Can I still run VISTA 64 on it ? I ask because of this "forced" upgrade-option in VISTA.

Quote - A lot of us have invested money in software that is Windows only. That makes it hard to switch. Also, Apple is charging a premium for the same hardware I can buy for less. Since the OS is chip locked, that turns me off to MacOS. Windows is like the Hotel California ;)

 

That's the rub.  Bringing down Windows and Microsoft is the cherished dream of many a cyber-rebel -- but in real life, the Evil Empire can't be defeated in a 2-hour format.  It would be a process of years -- if it ever happened at all.

I haven't gone with Mac -- as excellent of a system as it is -- for a number of reasons.  Overpricing (IMO) being one reason -- but not the primary one.  The primary one being that Macs tend to be incompatible and not a good fit with much of the software that I work with on a daily basis.  I know, I know -- you'll hear that MS-based software can be made to run on a Mac -- but frankly, that's not a reason for me to consider switching.  Not when said software runs just fine in its own native environment: and for less of an investment.

Linux I might think about at some point.  But even there, it's iffy.  If certain software packages & hardware devices just plain won't run under Linux -- then what are you gonna do?

Take the path of least resistance & stick with MS Windows.  Like it or not: that's probably going to be the outcome -- and the likely choice -- for most people.  Or at least I'd say that's the way to bet -- right now.

However -- things sometimes have a way of surprising us.  You never can tell.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Quote - A lot of us have invested money in software that is Windows only. That makes it hard to switch.

Not really. I dare say that it's not really hard at all.

Quote - Also, Apple is charging a premium for the same hardware I can buy for less. Since the OS is chip locked, that turns me off to MacOS. Windows is like the Hotel California ;)

$600 for a Core2Duo, 1GB RAM, and an 80GB HDD?

The nearest Dell Inspiron 530s desktop with those hardware specs (well, a slightly slower Core Duo processor) and Vista Home Basic will save you some dough, but to match OS feature for OS feature (OSX 10.4.6 vs. Vista), you'll be needing Vista Ultimate, which makes the difference $20 or so. With just Vista Basic, you save about $180 (XP isn't available for the low-end Inspiron desktop series @ Dell)

/P

Quote - > Quote - A lot of us have invested money in software that is Windows only. That makes it hard to switch.

Not really. I dare say that it's not really hard at all.

Quote - Also, Apple is charging a premium for the same hardware I can buy for less. Since the OS is chip locked, that turns me off to MacOS. Windows is like the Hotel California ;)

$600 for a Core2Duo, 1GB RAM, and an 80GB HDD?

The nearest Dell Inspiron 530s desktop with those hardware specs (well, a slightly slower Core Duo processor) and Vista Home Basic will save you some dough, but to match OS feature for OS feature (OSX 10.4.6 vs. Vista), you'll be needing Vista Ultimate, which makes the difference $20 or so. With just Vista Basic, you save about $180 (XP isn't available for the low-end Inspiron desktop series @ Dell)

/P

I'm not talking home users, but professionally as well. I can't run SQL Server on a Linux box and I am sure not going to be switching to Oracle any time soon. Windows server run ASP.NET, and I don't think you can do this with any great ease on a Linux server. Windows still dominates the corporate network, and I don't think this will ever change.

As far as home computers go, I don't buy prebuilts except for laptops. I can put together a machine far cheaper than anything Dell or Apple has to sell me.

Apple needs to wise up and start selling the OS independently of the machine. Only way I will switch.

Well, the likes of Google and Intel use MySQL... a lot. It costs approximately $0.00 to acquire. There's lots of plugins that will pull in any SQL '97-compliant DB dumps. I agree on homebuilts - much mo' cheaper to build 'em yourself. Incidentally, you can install OSX on a vanilla PC if the chip has SSE2 or better on it. http://osxx86.sourceforge.net I believe is the place to get the relevant info (top o' the head.. .can't remember 100%). I'll check my links @ work tomorrow and pass it on. /P

First, if Bill Gates wanted to take over the world, he would have a good start, but so would other software providers. Photoshop, Poser, and many more will automatically connect to the Internet and check versions, updates and so on UNLESS YOU TURN THIS STUFF OFF. I have XP Pro SR2, and I turned all the Microshit firewalls, virus scan and error reporting off when I installed it. Download the free Zonearlarm firewall from Zone labs and it will tell you everytime a program tries to connect to the Internet. You just tell Zonelarm "no". I use the free AVG Grisoft virus scanner and find it far superior to the commercial ones. Also turn off all the "checking" in Windows Media player, etc. Download the free Spybot Search and Destroy and Ad-Aware which will also help keep your machine free of trojans and spyware. Microsoft acts like all users have the IQ of a kitchen chair. I also empty my Internet cache at least once a week to get rid of the bad cookies. Sometimes I miss the old Internet when it was all BBs and text.

Quote - Well, the likes of Google and Intel use MySQL... a lot. It costs approximately $0.00 to acquire. There's lots of plugins that will pull in any SQL '97-compliant DB dumps. I agree on homebuilts - much mo' cheaper to build 'em yourself. Incidentally, you can install OSX on a vanilla PC if the chip has SSE2 or better on it. http://osxx86.sourceforge.net I believe is the place to get the relevant info (top o' the head.. .can't remember 100%). I'll check my links @ work tomorrow and pass it on. /P

MySQL doesn't really scale well for large databases. According to this TPCH thing I've seen, it becomes Oracle/UNIX when faced with anything over 3 TB. Hmm, I'll have to check out this OSX link you have... I was going to try putting OSX on VMWare and see if that worked. :)

OSX on PC hardware is very tempting. At the beginning of the year before rediscovering Linux I was considering OSX on PC as a possible 1/2 step on the way to converting over fully to a Mac. Some of my main programs came with both Mac and Win versions. I'm still sort of itching to tinker with OSX on PC eventually even if it's just to see what it's like.

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

Quote - First, if Bill Gates wanted to take over the world, he would have a good start, but so would other software providers. Photoshop, Poser, and many more will automatically connect to the Internet and check versions, updates and so on UNLESS YOU TURN THIS STUFF OFF.

...that's why the one Windows machine I recently came by (an old P3 Dell laptop that I do compatibility checks with via D|S) isn't even allowed outside the LAN. My (real, not OS) firewall blocks all outbound packets from its MAC address. I only need LAN connectivity for it now. > Quote - Sometimes I miss the old Internet when it was all BBs and text.

Yeah, me too. > Quote - MySQL doesn't really scale well for large databases.

I'd see where the benchmarks you mentioned came from and who commissioned them - Google's main DBs are all MySQL, and they have to be way larger than 3TB. At work I've rigged 8 MySQL synced DB's of a code automation testing suite that's roughly 4.5TB in size total, with two of them in Arizona, and two of them in China -- across a horrifyingly skinny WAN link (you have to use v5.1 or better, coupled with Federated Tables and a bit of iteration rigging to round-robin the SQL replication thread among the 'two-way' DB's (three of the pile are only slaves, with the rest as peers. One of the threads has a 3-hour inbound delay to the archive DB, thanks to a little script built by xprb) - it's the one complaint I have w/ MySQL, though... replication is a PITA unless you're willing to get jiggy with it. Oracle (esp. with RAC) is much, much nicer, but the price tag is evil. MSSQL might handle it, but the price tag is friggin' huge too, and the underlying OS is unsuitable IMHO). That said, I've seen no real probs w/ performance, aside from the initial DB loads (UPS and a few full LTO-3 tapes were my best friends there). Long, ugly story... :) The OSX-X86 link: http://www.osxx86.info/installguide/ I have one specifically for VMWare installs too... I'll cough that up when I get to work :) /P

The site seems down, but just in case, the link is Vmware how to - OSx86

OSX on a PC sounds interesting -- if only to be different.  Perhaps it might work with a dual-boot arrangement: although I could envision all sorts of potential issues arising from such a setup.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I couldn't find XP pro anywhere so put one on from someone else, told MS I thought it was a pirated copy and was able to buy it from them. As well as getting the CD in the mail it was installed in my name right then so at least for now you can get it from them in a roundabout way...and it's legal.  I have no use for Vista. I may have to eventually break down and use it....but hopefully by that time it will be running smoother with options to get rid of the background noise. I still have 2000 pro on two of my systems and XP pro on the rest. I see no reason to upgrade them to vista, though I am interested in taking advantage of the XP 64 bit.

When I buy a new pc at some point next year the first thing I'll be doing is wiping Vista off & installing Ubuntu, at that point if Poser still doesn't work in Linux properly I'll bid it a fond farewell & find something else to "waste" all my spare time on.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

One thing this thread has confirmed is that there is no small amount of reluctance in having to use Vista over other operating systems. What's disturbing to me is how the pc companies caved in to Microsoft by discontinuing to offer any XP support to the customers who still wanted it.

I chose to remove Vista from my Toshiba laptop and it was a lot of trouble to get all the XP drivers I needed from here and there on the net because Toshiba didn't offer any XP drivers at all for my model.

I can't imagine why Toshiba or any other pc manufacturer should have cared one way or another except that they were in collusion with Microsoft to force Vista down everyone's throats. I'm sure Microsoft gave them generous financial incentives to do so.

I will remember this about Toshiba when I'm considering my next computer purchase.

• Rick

Attached Link: http://www.osnews.com/story.php/18309/Windows-7-Preventing-Another-Vista-esque-Development-Process/

Or you wait for Windows 7 ;)  There are numerous articles popping up about this version.  Google is your friend here :)

Another:

http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/windows_7.asp

Richarbri you might find Driver Genius useful, it's saved me many long nights of fruitless searching http://www.driver-soft.com/

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Thanks man, that does look like an interesting program :)

It always makes me laugh when I see people getting upset because programs like Poser aren't made for Linux...the chances of that happening are near zero...and with good reason.
Firstly, if you start to produce a software for Linux that is available to the masses, people like e-Frontier would have to up the price of the software ten fold to just cover support costs of every Tom, Dick and Harriet who purchased it to cover the support with their distro.
Lets face it, if a person wouldn't touch the Windows registry without getting into a sweat, they sure as hell wouldn't have a clue on how to manually install a graphics driver (anybody who uses an older ATI Mobility card with Linux will know what I''m talking about).
I can almost be certain that the cost of developing a Linux Poser would never recoup it's cost compared to the amount of people that would use it.

Now, I've used Vista for about 6 months and can't remember a crash...and you will start to find that games and software (3DS Max 2008 is such a program) will support DirectX 10...which is only available from Vista...and believe me DirectX 10 kicks OpenGL 2 into the shade on many points.

And before people say that I'm a Linux basher...well I've used Linux for years, shader programming for Renderman based renders....and though it is a great OS, it's pluses are also it's faults.

 

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

This is the sort of thing that gives me pause about Vista -- people seem to either love it or hate it: with the "hate its" being somewhat more numerous & more persistent than in past times, dealing with past OS releases.

As I've indicated earlier in this thread: I understand fully that, realistically speaking, the vast majority of users will eventually have to go with whatever Microsoft cares to spoon-feed to us........in spite of the hopes & dreams of anti-MS types.  Linux and/or OSX overtake Windows on PC's?  Not terribly likely.  Sure -- anything's possible down the road.  But I wouldn't bet that way.

So I'll eventually end up with Vista, or maybe with Windows 7 (or whatever they call it when it hits the market).  The difference being that unlike my experience with previous incarnations of Microsoft's OS releases -- it'll probably be awhile before I head that way.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I can understand your point of view Xenophonz....but OS X (or Apple) isn't the holy grail either.
MS get some bad rap about DRM (lets face it, their hand has been forced somewhat by content creators), but Apple are no better either.
In fact Apple have just a monoply over how people have to use their software, as MS do...if not more so.

 

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

Oh, I'm not a Mac partisan by any stretch of the imagination -- I'm not even a Mac user.  I recognize that it's a fine system, but I also recognize that it represents a tiny element of the overall PC market (sorry Mac folks -- but that's just the way that it is).

For my own work and for the sake of compatibility -- I pretty much have to stick with MS.  By no means am I saying that I agree with everything that Microsoft does: I'm just recognizing the practical realities of the situation.  I don't either love or hate Microsoft.  The company is just a toolmaker, and it happens to dominate the market.  So.......when it comes to PC's, if you need to have near 100% compatibility with 90-some-odd percent (or more) of the rest of the world: then Microsoft it is.

It is what it is.  I can't go some other way without a lot of unnecessary extra effort & work-arounds on my part.  Why should I spend many hours fighting, trying to get something to work in Linux, when I can just pop the program installation into my MS machine and away I go?  The only reason that I can see is an emotional dislike of Microsoft -- and that's never been a good reason to do something or to not do something when it comes to PC's.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

*'For my own work and for the sake of compatibility -- I pretty much have to stick with MS. '

That's always been the case with me too and it's why MS enjoys the lionshare of the OS market. Why move to another platform when the one you've been using has worked well enough for you for years?

I was surprsied though that MS didn't seem to care much about the backward compatibility of Vista. Max 8 does run on Vista but the mental ray renderer won't. No version of Autocad will work with Vista and that's a real shocker. With too many apps it's a hit or miss proposition if they will even install under Vista yet alone fully work. Combined with the excessive statrtup and shutdown times I really have to wonder what MS was thinking with this release.

As I mentioned earlier though, the graphics enhancements are very nice and I think that many people who use their PCs mainly for office work won't mind the change at all. I'll bet the bulk of the complaints are coming from people who have special purpose use for their computers and they know exactly how they want their computers to work :)

It's too bad there isn't more software support for Linux though. I don't know what the threshold number of users would have to be to make supporting it a viable choice for all software vendors. From what you read, it seems the number of Linux users is growng and is substantial. Until I see Linux support for the apps I run I can't see myself using it for anything other than experimenting with a new OS :)

• Rick

Quote -
In fact Apple have just a monoply over how people have to use their software, as MS do...if not more so.

Umm, no they don't.

Seriously, they do not.

I'm very sure that Apple goes out of their way to maximize flexibility for the user that wants it.

You can even code all you want to on it for free. $0.00

--

Oh, the reason why I stopped by...

Just a gentle reminder if you use Vista:  Don't be in any hurry to update your video drivers. You may get bit with WGA deactivating your machine if you do.

/P

We've got 3 pc's in the house here, mine dual boots XP & Ubuntu, 1 is pure XP & the other is pure Vista, none of them have problems at the moment but after what you posted pengy I'll be watching the vista machine much more closely.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Quote - > Quote -

In fact Apple have just a monoply over how people have to use their software, as MS do...if not more so.

Umm, no they don't.

Seriously, they do not.

I'm very sure that Apple goes out of their way to maximize flexibility for the user that wants it.

You can even code all you want to on it for free. $0.00

--

Oh, the reason why I stopped by...

Just a gentle reminder if you use Vista:  Don't be in any hurry to update your video drivers. You may get bit with WGA deactivating your machine if you do.

/P

Oh, I think I'll try OS X...oh, that's right, I can't without forking out at least £800 for some hardware....just one example of monoply.

In all fairness I like OS X (I have a MacBook Pro), but it goes without saying that to use OSX takes much more outlay per person than it does to use windows. The whole reason why OS X is cheaper is because costs can be lost within the hardware needed to run it.

 

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

I posted a link earlier about the OSX-x86 project... if you have legit install disks (yes, you can buy them), you can load them onto any Intel-based machine that has the SSE2 and better instruction set. The link has details as to how. You are absolutely correct in that it costs a bit more up-front for a Mac, but part-for-part, the prices are almost the same or better than a similarly-rigged Dell or HP. Also, the costs amortize better over the long run than generic PC's do - for example I still use a dual G5 that I bought used in 2004... it runs just fine, and by the time I finally start looking to get a new one for compatibility reasons (say, a year from now, though two would be mroe likely), the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) for me will be roughly $400/year (assuming I replace it next year sometime). I spend way more than that on ciggies, and it represents only 1/3 of what I spend on cable television + internet connection. By contrast, a similarly-equipped Dell or HP would cost just about as much ($2000), but Vista simply will not run on most 3-year-old machines now, so I would've had to buy a new one anyway. 3 years later, same story. The funny thing is, I can buy a Mac Mini right now for $600, get $200 worth of extra RAM for it, and it would last just as long - bringing TCO down to $200/yr for a similar four-year-period. /P

Heh......interesting to note that the page for the Vista shutdown article also has a link to a "Why I quit Linux" article about a former Linux kernel developer --

http://apcmag.com/node/6735/

That one makes for a good read, too.

Of course I can't be dogmatic about this, but I get the feeling that Vista as we currently know it won't be the 'latest 'n greatest' OS from MS for very long.  It'll likely be quickly (2 years, maybe?) replaced by MS with something else.

In the meantime, let's all switch to OSX and solve all of our computing problems.........:sneaky:.

I think that I'll ride out this storm for awhile -- sitting in my XP lifeboat for a bit and waiting to see what happens.  It wouldn't have been a good idea to buy a betamax machine back in the day, either.  Sure: it was better than VHS, but Sony made the critical error of monopolizing the format in an attempt to force everyone to come to them.  Such attempts rarely work: with Microsoft being a glaring exception.  Even IBM lost the battle, due -- in part -- to an inability to predict the future (an ability which Bill Gates apparently had), coupled with old-fashioned ideas about mainframes being the end-all of computing, while the new PC's were regarded as mere toys.

Microsoft: you will be assimilated.......resistance is futile..........

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Meh - one is an article about a guy who got his ego bitten off (kernel.org's mailing list is not for the feint-of-heart; participate at your peril), and the other is about how your OS (if it's Vista) will literally cut you off because it thinks you're a pirate just for updating your video card driver.

Waiting with XP is prolly the best course of action if you have to stick with Windows (just bought a machine, etc)... dunno if MS will be able to keep its market share with Vista driving people elsewhere in droves, though.

The same factor that put MSFT on top (the computer comes with the OS), may be what kills it. Folks are seeing how dog-bad Vista can get (I'm sure that it runs well in many cases, though), and decide to look somewhere else. Apple just posted one hell of a record quarterly report for growth, at a time of year when normally things are kind of slow. They report that they sold more Macs in Q3 2007 than they ever had in any other fiscal quarter... in their entire history. Q2 2007 held the previous record for Macs sold, and Q1 before that. In short, their growth is explosive. Meanwhile, Vista's growth is being kept in life support by dint of having it pre-installed on new OEM machines, with no indication as to how many of those got flushed and replaced with XP or even Ubuntu (which is also experiencing some rather exponential growth).

The scary part is, I don't really see anyone here @ work in any hurry to push Vista out, either... and I've only seen about 5-10 Vista machines total in a building that houses ~600 user computers (desktops/laptops).

/P

Ya know.......I believe that the current Holy Grail for commercial OS developer types involves two issues: security and anti-piracy......two issues which in a way represent mutually contradictory motivators.  To keep out hackers you install all sorts of system-resource-sapping & annoying failsafes; and then to keep an eye on end-users to be sure that they aren't ripping music and / or movies to hand out to their buddies (or to sell) -- you include all sorts of backdoors & built-in spying mechanisms.  Mechanisms which, of course, smart hackers will quickly figure out ways to exploit.

You can't win.  Do your computing on an abacus.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

'... dunno if MS will be able to keep its market share with Vista driving people elsewhere in droves, though.'

Yeah, that's what makes me wonder what MS was thinking of when they released Vista. Even if it's true that MS is the 'Evil Empire' that others claim it is - you'd think they'd have some interest in their own survival  :)

Quote - You can't win.  Do your computing on an abacus.

Ah, but you can... choose an OS that doesn't care to dig into your business. OSX, Linux, FreeBSD... there's at least three right there, and they've always taken security seriously. Now considering the catch-22 of "not enough market share to code for" that 3d companies like to take, OSX is prolly your best bet for awhile, unless you really like hacking your OS to get the Windows versions running under WINE/Cedega/cxoffice.

Well.......if your #1 priority is to keep the Microsoft Borg from spying on you -- or if your priorities involve other "speciality" reasons --  then you go with some other OS besides Windows.  But if your main priority is, of necessity, compatibility with your clients or whatever -- then MS is pretty much your only choice by default.  Or at least it's that way right now.  Even if MS eventually loses its current tight stranglehold on the desktop OS market (which is unlikely): then it'll be a lengthy process.  It won't happen overnight.

But under current circumstances: some of us have an option.  Our choice lies between Microsoft Vista and Microsoft Windows XP.

It's all Bill Gates' fault.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

That's the funny thing - my #1 priority depends on where I'm at: At home, that would be a machine that runs with a minimum of fuss and care, one that can go for years once I set it up. I have zero problems with compatibility... my Linux server handles the backups automatically frm all machines (Bacula), the missus can save things wirelessly to her Windows-based network drive (Samba), and thanks to NFS, I have faster transfer rates to that same share (as well as others)... from the Mac. She uses XP because she actually likes using it. No biggie, though I keep her laptop backed up weekly for that reason. At work, priority #1 is uptime and availability, which is why Linux is on all but two servers that I care for (I have quie a few racks stuffed with these). Close behind that is efficiency - if my codemonkeys couldn't get to what they need in a no-fuss rapid way (SVN code repositories, home directories, common build libs, etc), I would have problems. Sharing the #2 slot is compatibility - we use (and have) clients with Linux (various distros), XP, and OSX. Oh, and all those hardware devices that we build (down to the chips themselves), code for, and test. It's only Gates' fault if you let it be Gates' fault. My Mac has VirtualPC with an old Win2k install on it for the one-or-two proggies that have no equivalent elsewhere (mostly because they aren't being maintained anymore). That instance has zero networking in it, and I'll probably relcaim the space here pretty soon. /P