I've noticed that if I'm doing a closeup(ish) render of a V4 face, as soon as I try using soft shadows either via shadow maps or setting the softness on the light, I get the dreaded nostril glow appear when I render. 

I've tried setting the shadow map size up to 3000 but all that did was slow the render down horribly - has anyone got any tips for getting round this ? I ended up using hard shadows with the density set to 95% and added a shadowless point light as a fill to lighten the shadows a bit but I'm hoping there's a better way of doing it

Regards

Frank

I have used soft shadows with closeups but never used shadow maps. With soft shadows, I didn't see the nostril glow. But you can get that kind of effect if you render with radiosity and the light quality booster is not high enough. In this case, the strangest things glow. Could this be your case? (you didn't give much details about your environment)
For example, this is exactly how I obtained the glow in the fingers in my image "the secret" (http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1522674). I took advantage of the quality boost not being high enough. :-)

I have a feeling you might be on the right lines there - I'll have to do some more experimentation.  It's not often I do a close up headshot so it's not normally something I get hit with

all i can say is.... WOW, Rutra....

you just made me wanna go try that LOL

now.... if i can just figure out all those tabs in vue.... ;)  (only been using vue for a month, but its WONDERFUL learning - much better than bryce, which still leaves me frustrated and pulling my hair out. 

this'll be fun to try =D

ummm.... did you delete the sun light or something??????  how did you set up the atmosphere for it?  i think i can blunder my way through the rest of the instructions chuckles

thanks a lot!!!!  (and once again - that is a .... there's no words to decribe it.... image.  wonderfully done!!!!!!   =D )

Thanks, melikia.
When I want total control on the lighting, I normally create a big cube and put everything else inside of it. I create a layer, put the cube there and hide the layer, and then I can work normally. This even speeds up render time, as there's no sky, no infinite horizon, etc. I can even texture the cube for added details. I put light sources in the right places and that's it. It's very simple and very efficient. I have many images done in this way. Here some examples:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1534821
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1517738
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1545349
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1508173
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1490808

If you need further details, let me know. :-)

*blinks....

the cubes are HOLLOW?????  oh jeez, i really need to catch up with you guys LOL.

ok, so create a cube, make it nice and large.... and this blocks the sky?  when you render, do you turn that layer back on?

and texturing the inside is the same as the outside?

grrr, i need a reboot - poser just crashed =/  trying to set up my human all nice to import her....

maybe i should just try with primitives and lighting for a bit in vue, then worry about an import.... for such a simplistic looking program (on the surface) there's a LOT more to it than meets the eye....

Edit:  After looking at the other images you posted.... my jaw hit the floor.
this is the kind of lighting i kept trying so hard to achieve in poser and kept banging my head against a brick wall.

lighting is the key to a great image - and you have definately got a way with lighting....

once again..... WOW.

"the cubes are HOLLOW?????"
Well, not really. If you partially subtract, say, a sphere from a cube (with a boolean operation) you'll see it's not hollow (you don't see the inside of the cube). But fact is, if you have the camera inside the cube and you put a light there... you'll see the inside.

*"when you render, do you turn that layer back on?"
*No, the layer being visible or not has nothing to do with it rendering or not. That's another button, a small button with a pacman-like-ghost.

"texturing the inside is the same as the outside?"
More or less. For most materials, yes. With some you may have to change mapping mode. Just try several until one does it right. :-)

Good lighting is 90% of an image, IMHO. Even the dullest scene can look interesting with the right lighting. And a bad lighting can kill an otherwise good scene. So, indeed you should practice and experiment.

lighting in Vue can take a bit of getting used to after Poser but IMHO it's infinitely better and definitely repays a bit of study and fiddling around with. 

I'd never thought of using a big cube :) I usually just delete the sun and add my own lighting unless I particularly want sunlight.  I use HDRI a bit too

This is the coolest thing i've played with in... well... a long time LOL.

i lit a sphere inside the cube, and been playing with gels & volumetric lighting.  a question on the gels (i cant do much about the grayed out areas that wont let me go from FLAT to SPHERICAL).... i apply it to the sphere, and yet.... the shadows dont seem to match the gels????

totally confused - oh... maybe if i turn off the "smoke & dust" lol.... let me try that.... (edit:  didn't work... confused again *sighs)

this is soooooooo much fun to play with!!!!!!!!

so, the cubes aren't hollow, just..... ummm.... invisibly dense ;) ?

havent attempted booleon operations yet - thats a whole nother ball game i'm not quite ready for.  i DID, however, manage recently to make a fairly convincing waterfall using terrains (discovered that clipping plane feature LOL).... (and yes, i still need work on those, too)

but this LIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  this is FANTASTIC!!!

oh man, i think im gonna have to sell my soul to get a sidegrade to pro studio.

*chuckles and dives back into vue, checking back here periodically

apply the gel to the light not the sphere :) - adjust the x,y, and z scale of, for example, the caustics gel and see what happens.

Vue is far too cool for words :)

to the light?  i turned the sphere into a light... when i click on it, it brings up options (light editor).... including the gel one - so thats not where i put the gel?

mmmm, goes to figure this out....

edit:

my bad.... i had shadow softness set way too high LOL, and changing the scale of the gel helped a lot, too

chuckles

ive got SOMETHING now..... now to piece the various bits together and try that (boy am i glad i didnt try this WITH a "human" in it yet)

oh right - didn't realise that's what you'd done with the sphere :) I figured you were using a light to illuminate the sphere - ignore me then heh

Warning: turning objects into light sources will cause blotches unless you turn quality boost sliders up (both in the light itself and in the atmo light tab)... which increase render times. Well, at least according to my experience.

so thats explains the blotches chuckles

helped when i turned the gel a different color; i didnt realize the gray "cube" and the lighting weren't interacting very well

yup, it will look horrible if you aren't careful - see my "Ringflash" test - that took 5hrs + to render, there's only a torus converted to a light as illumination

changed gels from caustics to another one.... and lost the durned effect again *GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

i WILL figure this out.... if i managed to teach myself poser (before i found all the cool tutorials here), i CAN learn vue.  i'm just missing some key element that isnt sinking into my brain. 

i need two sets of hands - one set to run vue, the other to rip my hair out so there's no interruptions ;)

what sort of effect are you actually trying to achieve here ? that might help us give some tips :)

grrr - would it be easier to just add a light instead of trying to use a converted sphere?

i want those nifty effects gels can create....  its just not showing UP

probably - you'll have a whole lot more control over it - the volumetrics will look a lot better on a spot for e.g.

(This is going to turn into the longest thread I've ever started heheh)

LOL.... and the most ive posted in a day....

ok, cleared my scene, started over....

cube is flat white, used a spot light, added my gel (the rotated tile thing), volumetric light.... but i get NO effect on the ground/bottom of the cube - just in the "atmosphere" - and that looks blotchy rather than linear (if that makes sense... there's hard edges on the gel, so i was hoping to see it a bit better)

HOLY COW... i dropped the cube a little below the ground, turned the GROUND flat white, and now i have .... SOMETHING.  not sure what, but im gonna figure it out LOL

moving the camera from its default position helped, too LOL

you can always use a plane primitve rather than the floor - if you get started on reflections, an infinite plane will make your computer cry :)

Could this be what you're after? If yes, I can email the scene to you, if you like. It was done with a cube, camera inside it, one point light with a gel and a sphere.

check it out!  i did it!!!!  (starts singing... i'm a big girl, now!)

ok, had to fiddle with power, brightness, and who knows what else, but i got it!!!!!!

THATS what i was looking for - light in kinda streamy fashion, and being able to SEE the effect on the flor

good idea about the plane primitive.... gonna try that =D

oh, another stupid question - how do i make the ground go away?  is it ok to delete it? (i noticed one time when i tried that my grid also vanished =(  )  a horizon isn't perfectly level... i like things below and above.... and that ground plane keeps cutting things off.

oh YES, rutra!!!!!!!!!!!

THATS what i'd like.... THAT kind of effect (mine is a bit washed out still)

i'd love a copy of the scene.... then maybe i can poke and prod and figure out the settings that way chuckles

and a point light versus a spot light (which is what i used) - that's better for this?

You can set the transparency of the ground to 100% which has the same effect - the gel needs something to shine onto though to get the effect.

something like this ?

You can have a copy of mine too if you want - the texture I used on the plane is a freebie from somewhere (can't recall exactly)

You could delete if you dont need it for your scene. Or you can hide from render (that little ghost button). You can always create it again with the click of a button. But why should you delete the ground? It can help to get you oriented. You can simply put your objects way above the ground.

lol.... cus moving the camera around is a scary business, and i havent figured out how to reset it to its default position =/  i DO like the grid - it helps me place things soooooo much easier LOL

i need to just poke buttons in vue and figure 'em out - i read the manual, and it gave me a headache that lasted 2 days, and durned if i can remember much now  *drags it back out and glares at it

i managed what you did.... kind of.... i cant figure out why its not turning out as sharp as i'd like...

mmm, transparent ground (sorry, didnt see that before - amazing look, there Frank!)

how DO ya'll make it.... so.... easily seen?  mine looks washed out, but if i reduce power and/or ... well, ANYTHING - it just gets daker =/

edit:  i turned off volumetric lights on this one....

pm me an email addy and I'll send the file over to you so you can take a look.  I dropped the scale on the gel quite a bit - 0.25 on x y and z but the rest of the things are default (apart from the plane texture has a 30% reflection added to it)

also, that's an ultra render - makes the volumetrics show up better

aso, I've not used any texture other than the default on the cube - I normally don't bother with the cube, just delete the sunlight but that's just me :)

its atmosphere LOL.  of all things.  just cus ya manage to block the sky aparently doesnt make the settings go away duh moment  the one place i DIDNT think to look - and should have

its getting there =D

yup, it's not a vacuum in there :)  looking good so far - bit of noise in the volume but that normally gets sorted on an ultra render or just boost the quality of the volumetrics a bit (adds to the render time mind so don't take it too high)

lol... im rendering on preview settings usually - i expect the graininess... hmmm.... let me try it on ultra and see the difference (even though ive changed a few settings since then LOL)

I'm heading for bed now so good luck with the playing around :)

and thanks again for the scene file, Frank.... i'll definately enjoy playing with it.  maybe if i picj it apart, i can figure out a part of this lighting thing LOL.

rest well =D

im gonna have to nap here soon =(  been sick way too long and it saps my energy.  i shoulda been working on textures today, but the lighting thing grabbed my attention LOL.

ok, feeling a bit stupid again....

someone mentioned the little "ghost" to hide things even during rendering - i can't find the ghost.... where is it??  LOL.  the only "ghost" ive found is in the materials editor at the bottom so i dont see stuff i don't have

Select the object you want to hide from render and right below where it appears the material preview there are 5 small buttons. One of them is a pacman-like-ghost, called "Hide from render". In the manual PDF you can search for this text exactly as I wrote it, if you still can't see it.

i found another longer way around it.... but its such a pain.  under render options, check "only selected", and right before rendering, make sure what you want is selected - and what you dont want isn't LOL.

but... thanks to FrankT's generosity with his scene.... i was able to play around quite a bit (i didnt touch his settings too much.... it already looked way too cool - i kept tossing stuff in there just to watch the effects LOL)

this is the result of last night's "playing", and is dedicated to both of you - FrankT and Rutra - for all your help yesterday =D  (lets hope i didnt render it too big for the forums, otherwise i'm gonna have to put it elsewhere & link LOL)  Edit:  YAY, it worked! - no postwork, straight outta vue

that's pretty damn fabulous !! so long as you work on a copy of the scene, you can always go back if you make a real pigs ear of it but that looks good to me. 

yep yep... when hubby took over computer last night and asked to close vue, i said ok without thinking about it.... then he said "do you wanna save or not?" - i said no, cus i hadnt saved at all since i opened your scene... and didnt wanna have to redownload the original LOL.

but, most of my vue scenes end up trashed anyway, with only a few renders to show they ever existed.

can't wait to play with it again!!!!!!!  giggles

this time, i might get up the courage to move things around and poke a bit more at the settings.

Here's where the "hide from render" ghost is

chuckles - it DOES render fast.... another reason i like it.... specially in the preview window ;)  render time increased cus i put an ice material on the text, and was playing around with mixing materials on the cracked sphere thing  (found out how to load more than one at a time as a side-result of playing around LOL).... the "spilled liquids" are terrains with clipped planes.  i kept trying to make it look more like water, but discovered it looked.... a bit odd... gonna work on that some more at some point, too.

sighs and hubby just reminded me to get my work finished before playing around.  pouts

*mutters softly and goes to reboot so poser hopefully wont crash again.

but, i have something to look forward to!!!!!!!!  YAY! =D  chuckles

Good work! Vue is fun, isnt it? You'll find it's kind of addictive too... :-)

"Kind of addictive" ??? :biggrin:

I love Vue to bits

kind of addicting?  poser was "kind of addicting".... (poser addict, too)

but this... heavens - i didnt get hooked on poser this fast!!!!!!!

now, when i play in poser, im thinking about what can i make this character do inside vue?  and trying to plan ahead that way...

and then, learning new things like lighting.... the little tricks - like that ghost (theres a reason its shaped like that - to hide itself from the newbie's eyes LOL)

ok, off to play in vue.... i've done my work for the day =D

Edit:  Guess what?  no wonder I couldn't find it - i don't have the "ghost" LOL.... i have 6 esprit - what version ya'll got?

ahh that might explain it then - Vue 6 Infinite

here's my latest using your scene, Frank - this time i had the guts to move the light around as well as change the gel =D

wow!, great image!
i got infinite too. if you have esprit you might not have ecosystems and some more great stuff. you can buy it seperately, i think.

The little ghost is an Infinite feature only. I'm running Pro version and no ghost. And of course it'd be very handy :)

i have what i call "examples" of ecosystems - i really cant change too much about them. Half of them don't seem to work at all.  

thats where pro with all those nifty modules comes in....  but the ecosystem in pro is an older version than the one in infinite (if i read e-on's site right)  (not that THAT bothers me.... )  - i could order the modules seperately, but its not as cost-effective, unfortunately.  (and considering i cant even manage to get stuff from the extras CD onto the stupid hard drive and vue consistantly FIND it - trying to plug in a module would probably be disasterous for me LOL)

no ghost in pro.... well DRAT.

guess its back to the long way of "hiding" an object from rendering.  This IS one thing i miss from poser - the ease of turning an object "on" (visible) or "off" (not visible) LOL.

im so proud of myself.... i finished my work yesterday, so today is "play day" grinz - or it better be.... i go in for a CT scan tomorrow and NOT looking forward to it, so i'm gonna try to distract myself today..... 

have ya'll found your gift certificates here yet?  i did yesterday and got this: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=59348&TopID=72289.

and of course, immediately loaded the cool pool/temple thing into Frank's scene, tried to put a light UNDER the water (no go), put one just under the roof (made it look wierd).... then i turned the water into its own light (that was kinda nifty, but boy did my render slow down a lot).... so turned off the spotlight that came with the scene and had just the glowing water - and my render time got even SLOWER.  so, i got mad, shut down vue, and went to bed.  on hind sight, i shoulda purged memory.  chuckles  oh well.  at some point, hitting that button'll become second nature.   i hope.

sighs  soon as hubby's daily backup is complete, i can play....

wonder what tutorial i'll stumble across today to work with?  yep, adding in what ive learned about lighting so far LOL