Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

I am hoping that it's a temporary glitch and things will return to normal in a few days!

The important thing is not to stop questioning.
- Albert Einstein

Indoda

:(

I bought several of her packages during that 30% off sale and had some others in my wishlist that I wanted. I'll have to go check the other stores and see what is there and put them back in my wishlist there.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

How do you search by vendor over at Daz?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

In the top most search engine input field just type in or paste in the artists name. you will get a listing link such as outoftouch and you will see outoftouch link pop up. Very simple

---Wolff On The Prowl---

She's gone from RR???? Wow! I know someone was giving her a hard time and being nasty but I'm not sure what over or why. She said some things on few renders.

well I know she got a few complaints about using copyrighted photos in her gallery promo images. And she seems to have taken that as a sign of persecution. As far as her store stuff though, I dont know.

Lyrra

She doesn't appear in the list to credit sellers when uploading an image and appears to have stopped posting to her gallery.
It's a real shame if she's gone, for whatever reason.

Mike

Her last upload seems to be gone as well, whether it was by her or the powers that be. Apparently the marketplace had rejected her last submission because she was hurting herself by flooding the market with V4 characters.

That's paraphrased obviously from what I recall and was probably paraphrased from what they told her as well. Hopefully it blows over as it's a shame to lose access to her beauties here.

John

I just got an email from her and she is banned for 7 days because she quoted an email RR sent her. She will be back. I have no idea what was going on because she doesn't do nudes! I only thought us pin-up artists got banned for our naughty pictures, LOL! I have been off line because I caught a nasty virus from a Japanese freebie site and I had to reformat my drive on my new PC. I am so sick of this. My virus scanner did not catch it.

Ooh I'm just playing catchup too - it seems that having to reformat PCs is a 'thing of the moment' just now - I'm just getting my machine back into order.

Syltermermaid is one of my fave artists and I receive notifications of her uploads. I haven't had time to go thru the ones I've had.

Pity she's had to step back for a while, for whatever reason - wish I had her talent!

Sheila

My aspiration: to make a decent Poser Render I'm an Oldie, a goldie, but not a miracle worker :-)

http://www.digitaldesignsunlimited.com/

Well in the meantime you could buy the merchant resources she uses and see what you can mix up yourself. After all if she can whip up some of those girls in a day, I imagine you all could do just as well. Not as if theres any custom morphs involved anyways .. so anyone can play

I know! have a "looks like SylterMermaids" contest and see who gets closest! :)

Lyrra

Quote - Well in the meantime you could buy the merchant resources she uses and see what you can mix up yourself. After all if she can whip up some of those girls in a day, I imagine you all could do just as well. Not as if theres any custom morphs involved anyways .. so anyone can play

I know! have a "looks like SylterMermaids" contest and see who gets closest! :)

Lyrra

That is a bit petty.

The best & most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen nor touched... but felt in the heart.

Helen Keller

My Gallery My Freebies My Store

Nah, wouldn't work, I don't think anyone could top some of the unique 2nd skins she's come up with in the past...really amazing detail. She does have a lot of her stuff over a PP, I just got Kara a few days ago. She does come up with some really beautiful models.

She has some here too:

I'm very pleased with the packages that I bought from her.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Which of her characters have second skins? I just went and looked at PPros, and I couldn't find any. Granted, I didn't look through all 400 of them.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Hhmnmm, it seems that none of her PP stuff has 2nd skins. When she first started out here with the V3 stuff, almost all of her models had at least 4 2nd skins. The latest she had here for V4 was Yasmina, an East Indian beauty with 6 second skins. the best I can do is show you a pick I did in my gallery (nothing grand, but, an example)

http://stevieg007.deviantart.com/art/Sultan-s-Gift-73986268

Click in it to get the larger pic and you can see the detail I'm talking about.

petty? I'm just quoting whats she has said herself. shrugs I can't think of a single one of her characters that doesnt use merchant reources. So in theory a creative person should be able to come up with somehting similar using a similar starting point right? I'm sorry if you think thats a slam against her work... but face it. Theres a difference between working "all day" on a character and working "all month" on a character and it shows. But her customers are happy with her work and hey, everyone likes something different right? if thats enough to keep them coming back for more, than all is well and good.

I don't know about you guys but I never use anything as it comes 'out of the box' :) I'm always messing about putting things together in new ways..see what shakes out. I suppose her characters are okay if you like the way she does make up and all ... but if I'm going to shell out money for somehting its going to have to be fairly unique. (Dulce, Sin, Bella Nightshade, Lady Jane by Surreality) I'm up to my eyeballs in large breasted blonde v4's .. dont know about you lol And unique to me does NOT mean "cobbled together from things I own already".

Lyrra

The ones I bought are celebrity look-a-likes and don't have second skins.

I'm not a big fan of second skins because they tend to look flat and "painted on". They just don't have that dimensionality to them where the clothing supposedly meets the body.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Quote - petty? I'm just quoting whats she has said herself. shrugs I can't think of a single one of her characters that doesnt use merchant reources. So in theory a creative person should be able to come up with somehting similar using a similar starting point right? I'm sorry if you think thats a slam against her work... but face it. Theres a difference between working "all day" on a character and working "all month" on a character and it shows. But her customers are happy with her work and hey, everyone likes something different right? if thats enough to keep them coming back for more, than all is well and good.

I don't know about you guys but I never use anything as it comes 'out of the box' :) I'm always messing about putting things together in new ways..see what shakes out. I suppose her characters are okay if you like the way she does make up and all ... but if I'm going to shell out money for somehting its going to have to be fairly unique. (Dulce, Sin, Bella Nightshade, Lady Jane by Surreality) I'm up to my eyeballs in large breasted blonde v4's .. dont know about you lol And unique to me does NOT mean "cobbled together from things I own already".

Lyrra

Oh - I didn't realise that her characters were mainly MR based - certain elements, certainly, but surely not all? I'm a novice at texturing - back in the pleistocene era I uploaded 3 freebies for V3, but they were done over weeks and weeks.

However, I don't think we should knock her. She's a lovely person, gains enjoyment from her hobby (and makes a few bob on the side - wouldn't we all love to do that?) and lots of people like her interpretations of the MR's

Sheila

My aspiration: to make a decent Poser Render I'm an Oldie, a goldie, but not a miracle worker :-)

Quote-
Oh - I didn't realise that her characters were mainly MR based - certain elements, certainly, but surely not all? I'm a novice at texturing - back in the pleistocene era I uploaded 3 freebies for V3, but they were done over weeks and weeks.

However, I don't think we should knock her. She's a lovely person, gains enjoyment from her hobby (and makes a few bob on the side - wouldn't we all love to do that?) and lots of people like her interpretations of the MR's

Sheila

Amen to that Sheila. Merchant resources are tools in the same way as other artists models are tools we use to create our own art.

I own a number of syltermermaid's characters and I'm very happy with them. If I like a someone's model and I have spare cash then I buy it.

We all have the option of modifying the model to suit our needs and when we do we are, in effect, using their model as a personal merchant resource.

I have no problem with a merchant selling many characters. I know I won't buy many of them but it gives me a great choice.

Cheers

Mike

After all, if you don't like something don't buy it. I think many of everyone's V4's are looking similar. The ones with nice tattoos are different. I know Ute was trying to make a living off her Poser products because her husband was sick. That must be hard to do.

No offense, but what does her husband being sick have to do with whether it's hard to make characters or not? Mine's in prison. Doesn't make it any harder to push pixels around Photoshop. I don't think I follow your logic.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

She was trying to sell a lot to support them. They were living off her Poser money, she said.

Lots of people support themselves on their Poser money. I support myself and two disabled kids on mine + SSI.

I think I must be missing an important point here somewhere. :-(

is easily confused

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

I meant she has to make a lot of Poser products to live off the earnings, I would think.

Oh.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Yes, Ute will be back in a few days. As long she is banned, she can´t sell her characters or get credits.
The only thing that Ute has done was to copy some sentences from a PM by the market-admin, under her image.
In the comment-thread someone has spoken about images with copyright in the marketplace, but it was not Ute who has used them. He or she was talking about another vendor.

Ute and her husband aren´t the youngest anymore. It´s true, her husband has much medical problems with his heart and can´t work anymore. Ute has rheumatism and problems with her intervertebral discs. Last one is the result of a long time of careing her disabled doughter as divorced mother.

Ute really has a difficult life, and she is certainly not a "mad person" who hasn´t nothing else to do as creating characters for poser. One side Ute loves to create characters, but other side she also has to earn some money - as we all have to do that we can live. Also not to forget that Ute gives many characters away for free to her friends or customers, regardless if they have many comments or faves for their images.
Nobody here "must" buy Ute´s characters, we can buy them or not.
Nearly all characters that I own from different merchants are based on "Merchant resources", so I wonder why this seems to be a big faux pas by Ute only?

Quote - In the comment-thread someone has spoken about images with copyright in the marketplace, but it was not Ute who has used them. He or she was talking about another vendor.

Actually, that isn't correct. The copyright issue I believe Lyrra was speaking about was a gallery posting, not a marketplace product. Someone (quite politely from what I recall) mentioned this to her in a comment, as this kind of thing can get us into serious trouble -- there was none of the 'attacking' I've heard mentioned, just realistic concerns about this issue. It would be no different than if I took the cover of Vogue, scanned it, collaged my character into the scan, and posted it in the gallery -- we are absolutely not allowed to do that. She was probably very wise to remove that image on her own.

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

What about fake Vogue covers? I've seen people do that here. What is okay?

If someone did a fake Vogue cover, I would think they're risking trademark infringement. If someone takes a part of a photo from a magazine and chops it up to use in a posting here without permission or license to do so, they are definitely infringing copyright. There's not really any grey area in there to quibble about or attempt to defend, especially since the image was being used for product promotion. There is a handy post about these issues here: http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=6249

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

I never saw the render so I'm not quibling. I hardly ever use photo backgrounds because I can't match the lighting.

Quote -
The only thing that Ute has done was to copy some sentences from a PM by the market-admin, under her image.

Quite a big thing IMO.

The rules of being a vendor here are quite clear and those rules include that we do not discuss information we are privy to in the Vendor's forum in public and that all communications between a vendor and the admins remains private. After issues last year it was brought to the attention of all vendors that the marketplace admins would exercise zero tolerance in this area and you would receive bans from the site for doing so.

Not to mention if anyone posts segments of a private email without prior permission then it is, at the very least, unethical. This is especially so when it is a business email and that is what any communication from a marketplace admin is.

Sorry to sound harsh but the personal lives of people who vend here should have no bearing on their products. Whether any vendor has personal problems is not any concern of mine and I do not think that it is advisable to discuss anyone's personal and private life in the public forae.

If they choose to try and make a living from Poser products that is their decision and theirs alone and to publicise such reasons in such an emotive way rubs me up the wrong way, maybe it is the great British reserve that we hear so much about or maybe it is just that I do not like emotional blackmail and that is what it smacks of to me.

Quote - What about fake Vogue covers? I've seen people do that here. What is okay?

If they actually use the name Vogue then they could be in a lot of trouble over that. However, if it is a generic fashion/lifestyle magazine front cover layout with a name that is not a play on Vogue or Cosmopolitan then that would be entirely acceptable providing that no copyrighted materials are not used in it's creation. After all, if the layout of such a magazine cover was copyrightable then we would only have one or two magazines in the local newsagents, instead of which there are plenty to choose from with new ones being published every month.

there are quite a few character makers who make their stuff entirely from scratch. Most of the ones who sell only at DAZ for one.

How to tell? look at the readme... if you see a whole list of merchant resources there I'd want to look at the resource and the character side by side. Did you know that you are by contract supposed to change at least 50% from the resource set before releasing it? I dont think Rendo actually enforces that though.

Thing is people who do things the hard way cannot work as fast as someone who is recoloring and pasting togther existing skins. So the market gets swamped with sets that are made from the same few resources and the original stuff gets buried. And then those few original creators get discouraged and leave the market, which is a shame.

I know I can't be the only person who only buys original works. I dont even buy prints of pictures. If I cant have the original, I dont want it. :) Now if Samildanach comes out with one .. I'll buy it, because bets are I've never seen anything else like it. Unique ..thats the key to great sales. Surreality's lovely Lady Jane is already in my runtime waiting for me to finish that preraphealite gown for a series of commisioned images.

Admittedly some people can do amazing things with a resource set .. but too many use it as a crutch to pump out as much stuff as they can. I dont think she realised that by churning out stuff so similar so fast shes flooded herself out of the market .. as well as damaged the market for other artists. Now thats thinking of other people, eh? She would have done much better to diversify .. after all there are well over 35 base figures out there... and if you make anything for say Maddy or Laura or Luke you get instant sales.

As far as being ill and supporting herself .. shes in the UK right? I imagine shes well eligible for council housing and all. Unlike some artists I know in the US (most expensive health care in th world) who'd never make a peep of their condition in the forums.

So I dont know .. you make your own decisions eh? I've never thought well of any artist that thinks their personal beleifs or issues means diddly when it comes to looking at theit work. Let the work stand for itself without all of the creators baggage.

Personally of the three of her sets I've laid hands on I'd never use them. Blurry skin, baked in shadows and highlights, garish hard edged makeup (to my eye) and horribly flattened photos jammed on as second skins. Nah .. I can pass.

But for her loyal customers .. power to you. I think you can still get all her gals over at Poserpros.

Lyrra

I'm not a merchant so I know nothing about merchant rules. Someone asked where she was and I just put my two cents worth in. Personally, I never could figure out those "Skinned alive" textures for the characters. How do you get photos of people flattened out like that? If I ever were to be a merchant, I would love to model sets like Danie and Marfornos, etc. I am a prop addict. I also love well-done furniture. PS If threads start to get nasty, they should be locked by the admins.

drifter

well first you get a nice sharp knife and a cabin in the woods ....

no! lol really all you need is photoshop, good photographs and the patience of a saint

you have to take each section and lay it onto the mesh, at the right size so the hairs and pores are in scale. and then when youve patched it togther you have to go back and get rid of as much skin shine and shadowing as you can. All that should be done by the modeling of the mesh when its rendered. So as you can see getting all the little details on hands and feet can take a very long time. After the base skin is done then you get to do makeup and tatoos and what not. then setting up the skins with shaders , if you use them that is. So its a lot of careful work but not too tricky :)

In comparison props are much much easier :) especially nice big things like buildings where you can use tiling textures.

In my opinion as an ex moderator .. I dont think this thread is nasty. Mind you I'd be watching it like a hawk .. after all Loyal Customers never do like it when someone points out flaws in their favorites work and they can get nasty.

But as long as its just a relatively calm discussion of the merits of merchant resources vs. custom work .. I think thats okay. Though the thread did get hijacked a bit, for which I must apologise. Mea culpa :)

Lyrra

I have to be blunt for a moment here: this -is- a business that should be handled in as professional a fashion as possible. Different sets of rules applying to different people is just not the way to go about that; the rules are there for all of us. I don't see anything any nastier than I usually see directed at the vendors in general around here. It's just that the roles have reversed a tad from the way it normally goes -- the people cheering this vendor on are often the ones dishing it from what I have seen. Another important aspect of professionalism is the ability to take criticism into account. This is minor league stuff compared to anything I ever heard when I was in art school. If that's considered 'nasty', I should be suing my professors for therapy bills instead of being grateful for what they taught me. High on that list? "I am not perfect, I will make mistakes, and the way to improve is to learn from them, not whine about someone telling me I made a mistake." As far as the flattened skins go... it varies. I know I just had to make a large investment in software that will allow me to step away from resource bases entirely, but while the software helps with the seams, it still takes a remarkable amount of time. (3 weeks and counting from custom morphing on head and body in Modo to working on finishing up the textures which are still not complete yet and have a long way left to go.) There are a lot of ways to go about it, and everyone you ask will probably have a slightly different method than the next person. Definitely try the prop sets -- there are some really good applications out there for free to experiment with to find something you like, and others have demos you can try before you buy.

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

Quote - Sorry to sound harsh but the personal lives of people who vend here should have no bearing on their products. Whether any vendor has personal problems is not any concern of mine and I do not think that it is advisable to discuss anyone's personal and private life in the public forae.

If they choose to try and make a living from Poser products that is their decision and theirs alone and to publicise such reasons in such an emotive way rubs me up the wrong way, maybe it is the great British reserve that we hear so much about or maybe it is just that I do not like emotional blackmail and that is what it smacks of to me.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't understand what it has to do with anything. I'm truly sorry to hear her life is hard. I know how that is. My life is hard, too. My therapist is astounded at all the sh*t that happens to me. What I've already said in this thread isn't even the tip of the iceberg. Hell, I could reel off a whole list of vendors whose lives are hard; some of their lives are so hard they make me cry. But I don't get why we're talking about it.

I feel like that guy in Cool Hand Luke going "what we have here, is a failure to communicate." Because from what I'm understanding, one person said her products were similar, made quickly, and used a lot of resource kits, and several other people spoke up and said "her life is hard." I'm not seeing a correlation here.

Also, I've seen several people basically saying "don't hurt her feelings; feel sorry for her." Well I do feel sorry for her, even though I don't know her. But similarity is a subjective opinion. I don't think anyone can argue that she works quickly. So unless she doesn't use a lot of resource kits, or is embarrassed to use a lot of kits, I don't see where her feelings could be hurt. My older products use a lot of resource kit material. My recent ones are photos only. I work slowly (sometimes hideously slowly). Whether or not my products are similar is a matter of opinion. And I won't be insulted or upset if anyone says so. In fact, if anybody does think my characters look too similar, I'd like to hear it, and to know what they think I could do to improve.

And hey, if anybody wants to have a contest to see if they can make stuff that looks like mine, let me know. I'll judge it. :-) I thought that was funny.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Dee, do you mind if I ask what software you're using for seams? I'm just using Photoshop (and often banging my head against the wall ROFL), but I like to hear what works for other people.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

I ended up picking up C4D (BodyPaint) just before the holidays. (Yeah... ouch. So much ouch.) It was surprisingly well-behaved when it comes to V4's many-seamed nightmare templates. There are a few of them that are still a royal pain, but I'm slowly getting the hang of it. You can essentially tell it to paint right across the seams as though they aren't there, which is intensely helpful -- especially since it has a clone stamp tool. I end up laying out what I generally want in photoshop, importing it over to C4D, fussing with seams with the clone stamp, then going back into photoshop for another round of cleanup and blending, and so on until I'm happy with it. It's time consuming, but fussing with it in photoshop alone and trying to match things up was taking me much longer. I had one too many stressful head-bangy moments, too. You can get a competitive upgrade from Bryce if you have it, which knocks $100 off the price, and that is very helpful. I got the most basic package they offered, and it was around $800 after the upgrade discount, plus shipping. I ended up picking it up since I was running into seam issues on the freebie I'd promised to do for Xmas, and there was just no time to do it any other way. As painful as it was to part with that much cash -- and it was nail-bitingly painful, I actually lost sleep -- it was very much worth it. I was able to do some spot fixes on my recently finished gal with it in a fraction of the time it would have taken otherwise, and was able to get most of a skin done that is purely photo-based since. (Still fussing over the limbs... sigh.)

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

Been reading through this thread and I thought i'd throw a few thoughts into the fray myself. As to the use or non-use of resource kits and or custom morphs in character creation. I guess my thinking is, so what?

I think the only way to judge such things is on the overall quality of the final product. Let the market bear what it will bear. If a vendor puts out a lot of items that are "lower quality" then they will get a reputation for doing so and have a much harder time selling future products. If a vendor puts out a lot of items of very high quality then too that reputation will follow them.. I don't purchase a lot of vendor material myself (very little out there that suits my personal application, but that's a long story...lol) but from looking through the marketplace occasionally it's pretty apparent which vendors put out consistent, quality products. I say let the marketplace sort it out, let the marketplace be the final arbitor of what is and isn't a quality product.

Honestly what difference does it make if someone puts up 10 characters a month or just 1? If they use a resource kit or do everything from scratch? If the final product is worthwhile and people like it, use it, and are willing to pay for it then I really don't think it makes any difference whatsoever. Think of it in terms of cars.. Sure, Mercedes Benz builds a really high quality product, but not everybody drives a Mercedes. They have a certain market for there product, and those of us who drive Toyota's and volvos and such just don't buy Mercedes much, nor would we if Toyota and Volvo were forbidden from making cars anymore. That is in essence what were discussing here.

I say let Toyota build as many cars as they want as often as they want.. if they flood the market so what? Eventually people who are tired of toyota's will simply stop buying them, and when they do maybe they'll be ready to consider shopping for a Benz instead. Either way I think the best judge of the quality of a product should be the people who purchase it. If they are happy with there purchase then mission accomplished. If not, we'll they'll let you know soon enough and that will have a big impact on future sales as well.

Just my 2 cents worth
Stepdad

I have to agree with a good deal of what has been said here and in fact, she should be very grateful toanyone who pointed out that she might have been skating on thin ice and ultimately find herself in a far worse situation than she apparently is in currently. I believe that the majority of merchants are well aware of the consequences of publicly disclosing correspondence between themselves and Renderosity and that doing so is not only unprofessional but will see you shown the door in short order.

There are plenty of merchants who do not use merchant resource kits to create their characters and I'm one of them. Every single one of my characters is done from scratch and it took me two years of gut wrenching hair pulling before I would have dared to ask anyone to buy anything I created.

If, as someone has stated, Syltermermaid has 40 characters available in the relatively short time that she has been a merchant, there is no way on god's green earth, she created those characters without relying more than heavily on merchant resources. If you look at the readmes...something you should do before you purchase any product...you will find that she has used the same resources over and over and over again, hence the similarity in her characters. In many cases, even the promo information is the same save for the changing of a name to reflect the current character and worded to imply that there are no resources were used which I find disturbingly misleading. But if that floats your boat and you don't care, then that's fine, but remember you can purchase these resources and do the same thing yourself.

Now let's take it one step further. Let's say for instance that a merchant...any merchant...uses the same eye resource kit for every product. Either they don't know how to alter those eyes or they choose not too for whatever reason and you're willing to pay how many times for the same thing ? You now likely have that entire resource pack and you probably paid ten times what you would have paid had you purchased the resource yourself in the first place! I honestly don't see the logic in that.

There are many talented artists who use merchant resources to create beautiful characters and you would never know. To do that can take just as many painstaking hours and talent as doing it from scratch and those people have my respect. Resource kits are a great way to learn how to do things yourself but they were never intended to be used as an end product.

I think it's sad that the market is so flooded with them now and so many seem to think they're a fast track to being a successful merchant with a fat bank balance without having to actually learn anything when in fact the reverse is true.

STORE:
http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=KymJ
GALLERY:
www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=KymJ

Dee, WOW! That's quite an investment!! Good for you, though! :-) And I sincerely agree with you about V4's seams. LOL. Argh!

Stepdad, here's the thing. What I think, and what you think about flooding or not flooding the market is totally irrelevant. It's Renderosity's store, so love it or hate it, it's their choice. And this is their decision and their policy. We have to accept it or go elsewhere. They're certainly not going to change policy just because someone asks. Trust me on that one. I've been in the trenches with them. LOL.

And like Kym said, you can use resources to create completely original characters. But you can't put out several of them a week. There is just not physically enough time to do it. It's not an insult or meant as an insult. It's just that regardless of how fast a person works, or how fast their machine is, it's still going to take a certain amount of time to put those pieces together. Does it matter? That's up to the vendor to decide when creating, and the customer to decide when purchasing. Do they get sold here? That's up to Renderosity. There are plenty of perfectly legal, legitimate, and worthwhile things we are not allowed to sell here, but are free to sell somewhere else.

Like I said before, my older characters use resource kits, my newer ones don't. I felt that I could only go so far with the resource kits. Beyond that, I was altering them so much that I decided there was no point in using the kit in the first place. So I don't use them any more. I have no problem saying I have characters that are still for sale that use resource kits. But I don't feel like I have anything to gain from using them in the future, so I won't.

Ok, I lost where I was going with this... ROFL! I'm sure I had a point when I started, but I can't remember what it was. :-P Oh, well. I've got mesh wrangling to do, anyway.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Quote - I ended up picking up C4D (BodyPaint) just before the holidays. (Yeah... ouch. So much ouch.) It was surprisingly well-behaved when it comes to V4's many-seamed nightmare templates. There are a few of them that are still a royal pain, but I'm slowly getting the hang of it. You can essentially tell it to paint right across the seams as though they aren't there, which is intensely helpful -- especially since it has a clone stamp tool. I end up laying out what I generally want in photoshop, importing it over to C4D, fussing with seams with the clone stamp, then going back into photoshop for another round of cleanup and blending, and so on until I'm happy with it. It's time consuming, but fussing with it in photoshop alone and trying to match things up was taking me much longer. I had one too many stressful head-bangy moments, too.

You can get a competitive upgrade from Bryce if you have it, which knocks $100 off the price, and that is very helpful. I got the most basic package they offered, and it was around $800 after the upgrade discount, plus shipping.

Hello my dear, been awhile!!

I want this program. I think one of the biggest letdowns of Deep Paint, not a bad program but... NO FRIGGIN SUPPORT. Forums are basically useless, the two gals I know that use it are too busy to help me figure stuff out so..... it's too much head banging and cussing to want to aggravate myself with it. Too bad, good deal through DAZ at the time. Wish they would team up with Maxon. I'd be very happy. I do have Bryce so I guess that would save me that $100.00 although I'm not sure why that would be considered a cometitive upgrade considering one is a landscape rendering program and the other a 3D paint program!! Odd!

So my quesion to you is hows the support for their products? I know, it's probably really good but thought I'd ask your opinion on that so far.

As for Ute, she's a very nice gal. We have exchanged emails before talking about this and that. Very sweet. She does produce products at unheard of rates it seems. Some look quite nice and others.... a bit rushed or lacking details. Perhaps it's because of her health or her husbands... not sure but if she's making her living off of this then more power to her as long as she has the buyers. I wish for her the best. I'll say no more on the subject.

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Hey, thanks for that information, Richard. :-) I didn't realize there was no support for Deep Paint. I will cross it off my list of things I want but can't afford. LOL.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Hey Sweety,

Yea, it's really too bad. Interface is a bit crude too. Like if you want to go from projection mode to rotate, zoom and move mode it's not instantaneous which is not exactly a time saver. I have actually 3 gals I know that use the program and love it. One is Kath, the gal that's doing that amazing texture set for Apollo, looks like a real dude. She says she wants to release some tutorials for DeepPaint 3D but when?? That could be a year from now. The other is Deecey as well as Connie that's using it to texture her Wizard Robe for Apollo. All 3 very talented gals but all busy as bees. So if you need the help who else do you turn too?

Oh and I can't figure out a way to get that Maxon - Bryce sidegrade Dee, where do I look for that hon??

Thanks much

Richard ;-)~

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Heya Richard. grin I looked at www.maxon.net in their online store. It wasn't easy to find the link -- but do yourself a favor and work with the demo -first-. I'll dig around in a bit and see if I can find the competitive upgrade part; I think it was a tiny little link at the bottom of the main order page that went to a different link. It's a lot of money if you decide you don't like it, you know? Bodypaint standalone is going to cost the same amount as the very basic C4D+Bodypaint, weirdly enough, so I'd recommend going that route. More tools for the same price is always good. Support... dunno. It's definitely there and I did have an issue I had to call their tech folks about in the beginning, but they resolved it in -seconds-, and were very friendly about it. There are a lot of tutorials you can buy, but honestly, I had a friend walk me through the basics to help me because after that I couldn't afford -anything- else (and still can't for a while yet).

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

I see what you mean. That would make it hard to learn. I'm not a big fan of the interface in the (free) 2D version of Deep Paint, either. OTOH, I do kind of like the interface in the free version of C4D. LOL. It's all about the free.

I really need to make time to check the seams on my Apollo character so I can get him done. Mmph. Always a million things to do.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Lyrra , you are just jealous!

:)

lobo

I dont think I can dignify that with a reply lol

.....good thing you cant see the rude hand gestures though

Lyrra

Quote - Dee, WOW! That's quite an investment!! Good for you, though! :-) And I sincerely agree with you about V4's seams. LOL. Argh!

Stepdad, here's the thing. What I think, and what you think about flooding or not flooding the market is totally irrelevant. It's Renderosity's store, so love it or hate it, it's their choice. And this is their decision and their policy. We have to accept it or go elsewhere. They're certainly not going to change policy just because someone asks. Trust me on that one. I've been in the trenches with them. LOL.

And like Kym said, you can use resources to create completely original characters. But you can't put out several of them a week. There is just not physically enough time to do it. It's not an insult or meant as an insult. It's just that regardless of how fast a person works, or how fast their machine is, it's still going to take a certain amount of time to put those pieces together. Does it matter? That's up to the vendor to decide when creating, and the customer to decide when purchasing. Do they get sold here? That's up to Renderosity. There are plenty of perfectly legal, legitimate, and worthwhile things we are not allowed to sell here, but are free to sell somewhere else.

Like I said before, my older characters use resource kits, my newer ones don't. I felt that I could only go so far with the resource kits. Beyond that, I was altering them so much that I decided there was no point in using the kit in the first place. So I don't use them any more. I have no problem saying I have characters that are still for sale that use resource kits. But I don't feel like I have anything to gain from using them in the future, so I won't.

Ok, I lost where I was going with this... ROFL! I'm sure I had a point when I started, but I can't remember what it was. :-P Oh, well. I've got mesh wrangling to do, anyway.

Never wished to imply that Renderosity shouldn't be able to say and do what they wish for there own store, just not really certain why some people seem to take such an affront to the use of resource kits in making characters.

Now, for the record, I don't buy a lot of characters, in fact I think I've only ever found 1 I felt I really wanted to purchase and that was quite some time ago. Not that folks don't do some outstanding work here, but most of what i do with Poser at least "professionally" doesn't really require them so I don't buy a lot of them, and on the rare occasion that I need one I generally put something together myself.

If any artist floods the market with characters that are not unique, wholly originally and well done guess what? Yes, they might have some initial success, they might even get a small "following" who really like what they do, but odds are good they won't get a lot of repeat business after a while.

Artists that do much higher quality work will - this was my point entirely. So I for one think that the market should be allowed to sort itself out. If the good folks at Rendo happen to have a different take? No problem.. there website, there company.. there decision. But I think in the long run the best arbiter of what is and is not good as far as products is concerned is the marketplace itself. Just my opinion, naturally.

Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree then. Open markets cater to cheap mediocrity. As evidenced by the fact that there are a lot more McDonald's than there are of all the high quality restaurants put together. lol.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

What sells products, IMHO, is good and detailed promos. As a buyer and not a merchant, in Vicky characters for example, I look for: Realistic skin; realistic eyes; realistic eyelashes (many merchants fail here at the lashes which do not even look like mascara - just fake); an appealing to me morph which is subjective to the buyer. Daz's promos are so tiny I can't see the textures. Rendo's used to be bigger and more detailed. Still, they are far superior to Daz's promos. I like to see the character nude as I do pin-ups. I don't care about second skins because they never look real. Some people do like them. Also, if your product or scene is so detailed and hi-rez that it crashes my high-end PC, then I am going to be unhappy. Daz's Bar Italia is an example. On props, I like realistic wall, floor etc. textures. Real brick walls have discoloration from the weather etc. on them and are not perfect. I do not want to have to postwork the entire set. Vendors who create interior sets - please include lights! Not everyone is experienced in setting up lights in an interior that is completely enclosed with no "make invisible" option for the walls because the room is one welded piece. Argh! Also, vendors who make the same hair over and over with minor changes can't expect me to buy it. It's all subjective, really. Nobody is forcing us to buy anything we don't like.

Quote - Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree then. Open markets cater to cheap mediocrity. As evidenced by the fact that there are a lot more McDonald's than there are of all the high quality restaurants put together. lol.

True, but have you ever stopped to consider what would happen if Mcdonalds were outlawed and the only resteraunts who could do business were of the expensive, high quality variety?

Also, if no one liked Mcdonald's food and there was no need of it, don't you think that there wouldn't be a Mcdonalds on practically every corner, right next to a Walgreens?

Quote - What sells products, IMHO, is good and detailed promos. As a buyer and not a merchant, in Vicky characters for example, I look for: Realistic skin; realistic eyes; realistic eyelashes (many merchants fail here at the lashes which do not even look like mascara - just fake); an appealing to me morph which is subjective to the buyer. Daz's promos are so tiny I can't see the textures. Rendo's used to be bigger and more detailed. Still, they are far superior to Daz's promos. I like to see the character nude as I do pin-ups. I don't care about second skins because they never look real. Some people do like them. Also, if your product or scene is so detailed and hi-rez that it crashes my high-end PC, then I am going to be unhappy. Daz's Bar Italia is an example. On props, I like realistic wall, floor etc. textures. Real brick walls have discoloration from the weather etc. on them and are not perfect. I do not want to have to postwork the entire set. Vendors who create interior sets - please include lights! Not everyone is experienced in setting up lights in an interior that is completely enclosed with no "make invisible" option for the walls because the room is one welded piece. Argh! Also, vendors who make the same hair over and over with minor changes can't expect me to buy it. It's all subjective, really. Nobody is forcing us to buy anything we don't like.

My point exactly... if you prefer the higher quality characters then only buy the higher quality characters. For me I don't buy much of anything, my own use for poser is much different than most and as such there is very little on the market that supports my application. But I guess my thinking when it comes to a marketplace is that quality will win out over quantity every time, and that you should just allow that to happen of it's own accord rather than trying to institute some sort of artificial control over it.

Again, no problem if Rendo see's it differently, that's Rendo's choice. But I think there is room in the market for both high quality, more expensive products and lower quality, less expensive products of a similar nature. Just like there is room in the world for Mcdonald's and all of the 4 and 5 star resteraunts out there. Just my humble opinion of course, but I think in the final analysis if a there is a market for a product it will sell, and if not it won't.. and that should be the final determination on whether or not a product is successful.

Would your feelings on that change if a city had a quota on the maximum number of restaurants allowed inside the city? Most marketplaces do have a limit on the number of items they will release per day or week, not per person, but for everyone to fit into.

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

Well, Ute posted a gallery render yesterday, but I don't know whether her stuff is back in the marketplace - to be honest, I haven't yet checked - I only look there when I want to buy something.

Sheila

My aspiration: to make a decent Poser Render I'm an Oldie, a goldie, but not a miracle worker :-)

Quote - Would your feelings on that change if a city had a quota on the maximum number of restaurants allowed inside the city? Most marketplaces do have a limit on the number of items they will release per day or week, not per person, but for everyone to fit into.

Exactly. And since top-40 sellers are guaranteed a wait of 3-days or less, the rest of us have to wait in the queue for two weeks or more, if they fill up the available slots.

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Quote - What sells products, IMHO, is good and detailed promos. As a buyer and not a merchant, in Vicky characters for example, I look for: Realistic skin; realistic eyes; realistic eyelashes (many merchants fail here at the lashes which do not even look like mascara - just fake); an appealing to me morph which is subjective to the buyer. Daz's promos are so tiny I can't see the textures. Rendo's used to be bigger and more detailed. Still, they are far superior to Daz's promos. I like to see the character nude as I do pin-ups. I don't care about second skins because they never look real. Some people do like them. Also, if your product or scene is so detailed and hi-rez that it crashes my high-end PC, then I am going to be unhappy. Daz's Bar Italia is an example. On props, I like realistic wall, floor etc. textures. Real brick walls have discoloration from the weather etc. on them and are not perfect. I do not want to have to postwork the entire set. Vendors who create interior sets - please include lights! Not everyone is experienced in setting up lights in an interior that is completely enclosed with no "make invisible" option for the walls because the room is one welded piece. Argh! Also, vendors who make the same hair over and over with minor changes can't expect me to buy it. It's all subjective, really. Nobody is forcing us to buy anything we don't like.

I do agree with most of your points, btw. I'm not ignoring your response. :-)

One question, though. When did Rendo have bigger promos? They've been 800x800 as long as I can remember. Or am I misunderstanding again?

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Far as I know, promos have always been 800 x 800. There used to be fewer of 'em, too.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

I think Syltermermaid's store here at Rosity is now open for business.

Sheila

My aspiration: to make a decent Poser Render I'm an Oldie, a goldie, but not a miracle worker :-)

Something To Do At 3:00AM

Yes, well it should be mentioned that Ute did not become a top 30 merchant by producing product that doesn't sell. She seems to have to be constantly on the defensive though from sniping attacks directed against her astonishing productivity.

Frankly, I'm amazed at her productive output and have told her so on many occasions. It's not that she makes so many characters that's amazing - it's that she makes so many 'desirable' characters. In the last analysis her characters are 'appealing' and that's why they sell so well.

I don't mean to jump in here with my opinion because I couldn't make a character to save my life - merchant resources or not, but strictly from a user's perspective I think her character morphs have a very appealing look to them and I like them just fine for my renders. Apparently so do many others because she certainly sells a lot of them :)

This may piss off vendors who spend a lot more time on creating more unique, detailed textures but it's the customers who drive the process and the tail does not wag the dog :)

Rick

Excellent post Richabri ! :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Yeah, I have to say excellently said as well. :)

John

So true! Ute is a wonderful person and I admire ALL the merchants because I can't make anything! I just wish there was a job somehwere that would let me make Poser pictures all day and get paid for it, LOL!

actually you sell lots of anything cheap ..witness 2 dollar knockoff anythings from Hong Kong. So I figure by slapping on lots of makeup, nailpolish and soft focus filters you should be able to cough up a couple a day. As long as you dont mind a certain skin deep similarity :)

Good thing not all merchants ahve this mentality!

Also if you dont render print quality poster sized images with full raytracing and IBL lights ... you may never realise that some skins have less to them than others. For full body screen resolution distance shots ..heck you could use a straight shader and probably do just fine. But the second you try to get closer at 300 DPI renders... you suddenly see all the flaws.

I guess it goes to show you get what you pay for :)

If you want a toyota or mcdonalds you can have 'em ... I'll continue to be picky :)

oh and incidentally ... not all cars can be mercedes ..but you dont see them all being advertised like they are eh? a little honesty in advertising would be nice, especially for the newer customers who really dont know what they are getting. But I dont think we'll ever see "buy this character! the best in dial spinning and edited merchants resources you'll ever see" lol

Lyrra

OT to the thread -- actually, Toyotas are widely regarded as high-quality, well-made cars. They are considered to be some of the best in the industry. They retain their resell value, too.

*"actually you sell lots of anything cheap ..witness 2 dollar knockoff anythings from Hong Kong. So I figure by slapping on lots of makeup, nailpolish and soft focus filters you should be able to cough up a couple a day. As long as you dont mind a certain skin deep similarity :)

Good thing not all merchants ahve this mentality!"

*I'm not sure what your intention was with posting a public dislike for someone or something, but you may be interested in knowing that it only made you look negative, cranky, overly judgemental, and perhaps jealous too.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

This is "Nala". Isn't she cute?! She's a Bengal kitten. Click on the image for a better view :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Here she is with her brother Simba! Click on the image for a better view :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Quote - I'm not sure what your intention was with posting a public dislike for someone or something, but you may be interested in knowing that it only made you look negative, cranky, overly judgemental, and perhaps jealous too.

You know... it may not have been the intention, but I saw this same logic trotted out and aimed at the people who said 'copyright infringement isn't cool' on the image that was very much that. I can't help but find that incredibly disturbing. Taking issue with certain behaviors happens all the time, as does voicing those objections, and I try not to read into it further personally. Personally, I was appalled that people in the gallery comment thread on the image following the removal of the allegedly infringing image that insisted "people are just jealous". Seriously, what on earth... ? How does that logic track at all?! I will be plenty negative here: that behavior was unquestionably disgusting to me; one doesn't excuse one's friends when they do something inappropriate and blame the people who point out what the inappropriate thing is instead. Read the commentary there if you like, though I don't recommend it unless you have a very strong stomach: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1587992&member I may be relating to wholly unconnected things, and if so, my genuine apologies to conniekat -- but this deeply unsettled me when I saw its previous incarnation and the repetition of that pattern is highly alarming.

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

Uh oh, kitties are derailing the thread... oh yea, it's been derailed for a while now.... :lol:

Cute little kittens hon!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

*'Also if you dont render print quality poster sized images with full raytracing and IBL lights ... you may never realise that some skins have less to them than others.'

Oh I'm sure that you are right and I wouldn't suggest that there isn't a difference between character textures. I've worked with Mia (Mint) for a couple of years so I do know what a quality texture is and what you can do with it.

But then it begs the question of what you want to do with the character. If you're not making renders with the requirements you specified then the appeal of the overall character is what matters most and this is where Ute's talent shines. She just makes appealing characters and in her case I'd say that the quantity has a quality of it's own :)

*'I guess it goes to show you get what you pay for :)'

No one could argue with that :)

Rick

Lyrra wrotes:
*Also if you dont render print quality poster sized images with full raytracing and IBL lights ... you may never realise that some skins have less to them than others. For full body screen resolution distance shots ..heck you could use a straight shader and probably do just fine. But the second you try to get closer at 300 DPI renders... you suddenly see all the flaws.

*So show me the texture which is perfect...!
Belive me, I own expensive ones and also some from new-commer and special offers. I was just shocked from the awful quality of a few expensive ones done by popular merchants, and I also was just more than happy with some cheap characters from unknowen new vendors.
Most it´s a question of my own knowledge how to handel this "cheap" character in Poser.
Otherwise, I have an expensive character which was perfect in Poser6 but came out in 4 different colors in Poser7....Head, arms, legs and body - all have a color of their own.
It seems you don´t have this character ;-)

I don´t think that the textures are really your probleme. I think you don´t like Syltermermaid as person, and that was not the point of the thread.
Richard has spoken wise words here!!

*'Personally, I was appalled that people in the gallery comment thread on the image following the removal of the allegedly infringing image that insisted "people are just jealous". Seriously, what on earth... ? How does that logic track at all?! '

I haven't been viewing the galleries lately so I don't know what the issue in question there is all about. The reason I jumped into this thread though is that I think a fair amount of the criticisms directed against Ute's prolific output do have an element of jealousy at their root.

I mean, if her characters were not selling so well - who would bother commenting at all?

Rick

Other than a factual comment here and there I've kept out of this thread. That said, I do think it's time to remind everyone that this is not the place to air grievances against individual members, whoever and whatever they are.

Please keep things civil and don't let it descend into a brawl.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

Jealous? of what exactly? I bowed out of the character marketplace years ago when it became obvious that it would be flooded with resource based characters. And over the last five years I've been right.

cranky and judgemental ..well you got me there. lol But I think everyone judges things to some extent right? its human nature

But if you tell me because I'm a merchant I can't have an opinion about other merchants products? Or I can't, in reasonable terms, make that opinion known? I dont recall signing away that particular right.

I think its important that the customers know what they are buying, and understand the differences in quality and originality. I find it shameful that some merchants focus more on pumping out the quantity and less about improving their work. At that point you stop being an artist and start being a photocopier. If you arent going to seriously work at what you are doing and make an effort to make every product better than the last one .. please stop!

I'd like to hope that if Syltermermaid reads this post she thinks a little about stretching herself, doing something a little harder, a little different. Heck I'd like anyone reading this post to think about that.

And since Arcadia is hinting .. I think we should leave this thread to die a natural death lol

PS my ex had a bengal named Simba .. biggest scaredy cat I ever did see ..but wonderful with babies.

Lyrra

I would be happy if I could figure out how to make one character!

How could things get uncivil with the cute pictures of Nala & Simba to look at :)

Oh lookie! Here they are again! Simba is the one in front. Nala is giving him a kiss :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Quote - Other than a factual comment here and there I've kept out of this thread. That said, I do think it's time to remind everyone that this is not the place to air grievances against individual members, whoever and whatever they are.

Please keep things civil and don't let it descend into a brawl.

Where is your cat picture!?!

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Honestly, Rich... knowing enough about the work of the people who make characters who have posted in this thread? They don't do the same style and never have, so I don't think that's at issue. Lyrra, for example, I don't think has ever made a character set. I've seen a lot of people who aren't vendors comment on the quality (or lack thereof) of work in the marketplace (this one and others). I don't see people reading into their views in the same way -- and I don't think it's any different for most vendors. I do see vendors taking an interest in the quality of work that is around them, though, and also in the ethics of fellow vendors. After all, when one of us pulls a stupid (innocently or otherwise), it's going to have some measure of impact on the rest of us. How many threads have appeared about "no properly ethnic V4 characters" or "no realistic makeups for V4" or "all V4s are nothing but slapped together resources and nothing original at all" or other similar vast, sweeping arguments that slam all character creators as a group? When this is not true of all character creators, there's definitely going to be an interest taken in the people who are doing any of the above. Sooner or later, people just stop looking around, because they see these comments so often that they'll believe them to be universally true. (And plenty of those comments have come from people who are defending Syltermermaid, it should be noted.) It's also been said in this very thread that there is such a glut of product on the market that people don't want to sort through them to look for themselves. Who is creating the glut, the people who produce a set a month, or the ones who produce a set a day? There are plenty of valid reasons for other vendors to take an interest in a thread like this, or have an opinion about the way someone does things, other than 'I want to be just like [whoever]!' or 'I wish I made that much money!' because... let's face it, even towards the top end of the scale, none of us are exactly lighting our cigarettes with $100 bills. You have a very valid point: people will buy what appeals to them and best suits their needs. Personally? I'm just fine with that. I have absolutely -no- issue that people love her stuff and buy it often; if it's what they like, it is absolutely what they should buy and no one should tell them to do any different. It's their money, right? The beginning and the end of my input on the success of any other vendor is: "Do I buy their stuff?" and the answer is a yes or no, and I vote with my dollars like everybody else. edit: drifterlee? Once I get out from the work pile I'm buried under, I'll be happy to help you put one together for yourself if you'd like. grin It's not as scary as it sounds.

-D
---
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye texture.

*'I would be happy if I could figure out how to make one character!'

So do I Sherrie but I don;t have the patience for the texturing and I couldn't dial up a decent face morph to save my life either. Like most guys - I can make some killer body morphs though :)

That's why I'm glad there are so many other talented individuals who go through the trouble for us :)

Rick

*'It's also been said in this very thread that there is such a glut of product on the market that people don't want to sort through them to look for themselves. Who is creating the glut, the people who produce a set a month, or the ones who produce a set a day?'

That's fair enough and I would even agree about there being a glut of V4 character sets in the MP but whenever I look through the pages of the What's Hot section it's mostly filled with just those sets. People can't seem to get enough of them. My thought though is that certain people buy certain characters from the vendors they favor and that's what makes the Poser world go round and why there are so many character sets of diferent descriptions in the MP. In other words, I think it has less to do with the technical quality of the sets then it has to do with the overall appeal of the characters themselves.

Personally I think you're all bonkers - me too! Who else outside the cloistered lunacy of Poser would ever need so many characters in the first place :) lol :)

Rick

Here's Toffee.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

And here's Apollo.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.