Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

I've been downloading as many of the hotfixes as I can, but not all of them were made public, unless you downloaded the Release Canidate for SP1. Many had to do with Graphics cards and memory allocation.

I just wonder how much SP1 will fix, and if I'll have to re-tweak my system after it's install.

I'm glad that I'll be able to move my Runtimes more speedily after the install :) I thought I was just impatient when I had to extract large .Zips or moved entire folders -- but, no, It was Vista.

And hopefully it'll fix the speed of working with large files, too. Vista's slowness is probably what caused the corruption of all of my xmas card .pz3 files I was working on. Since they were large files, they didn't write to the drive correctly. I haven't had any rendering difficulties, just file diffculties :)

Just a few more hours, and we'll know (midnight California time).

-- Jeff

I tried out the RC and it placed an irritating notice on my desktop that it was a preview version, I also lost use of my dearly loved Network Magic software. My home box could transfer files, no problem, to the laptop but the laptop, while it could see the folders, was not permitted. This was not the case before I had installed that damned preview. So now that I've got it uninstalled I still have no way of working with the NM software. Something in that updated RC messed with my system settings too deep for me to dig out and fix. So perhaps the full on SP 1 will get my system working as it should, speed things up and allow me to use NM again. Folks kept saying it was the firewall but even with the firewall turned off I couldn't use NM. Luckily there was enough info and allowances set up that when I used a different path I found that I COULD pull files from my home box. At least I have that figured out but I really really love NM and hope that I can once again use it when the smoke clears from this update!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

I take it you didn't wait for the RC refresh which was released a few weeks ago?

I thought about installing the RC, but I knew that I would have to uninstall it once SP1 final was released, and I didn't want to bother since the RC and RC Refresh wouldn't include everything that the final version would have.

I DO know that SP1 addresses previous compatiblity issues know to Vista with legacy software.

Sorry about your Network Magic; did you try to re-install the program after un-installing the RC? I haven't had any networking troubles with Vista itself working with my XP box.

Let me know if the final version fixes this issue for you.

-- Jeff

Quote - I DO know that SP1 addresses previous compatiblity issues know to Vista with legacy software.

Interesting. We'll see if it actually works that way.

I'm still not planning on heading out into deep waters by doing anything so drastic as installing Vista on my system. I'll see how loud (or not) the yelling is after this fix has been out for awhile. That'll give me a better sense of the way things are breaking (no pun intended, of course ).

My python page
My ShareCG freebies

Why is Vista slow? Is it because of bloat, or because the graphical GUI costs CPU cycles?

I ask, because I noticed that NVidia has purposed the bottom of their Quadro video card lineup as 'vista dynomite' in that the drivers and the firmware are optimized to handle Vista.

I am referring particularly to the PNY Quadro 570 FX, which is retailing street for around $175 and is said to not only make Vista sing, but give a great boost to SOME 3D applications (for which NVidia developed specific drivers) such as Max, Maya, etc.

Essential for Microsoft Windows Vista
Offering an enriched 3D user interface, increased application performance, and the highest image quality, NVIDIA Quadro graphics boards and NVIDIA OpenGL ICD drivers are optimized for 32- and 64-bit architectures to enable the Windows® Vista™ experience.
** http://www2.pny.com/NVIDIA-Quadro-FX-570-PCIE-font-colordc0431NEWfont-P2531C329.aspx
**

Also, within the concept of "vista is slow" I am curiously still interested, because testers in the Carrara forum are saying Vista64 renders with a significantly advantageous rendertime over XP64 (not to mention over any 32bit OS).

So, is this thing slow or not?

::::: Opera :::::

*So, is this thing slow or not?

*And some...

1.8 single core, 1.5GB, XPHome SP2
5 year old Dell 1.2gb 512mb. Windows 98b.
2.3 dual core, 2GB RAM, Vista home basic.

Which 2 machines can run a 38mb 640x480 video clip without stuttering like youtube on 14,400 dialup ? well it aint vista :)

3/4's of my apps won't run - what do run can be slower than 2 slothes having a sh*g in a treacle factory.

Guardian was reporting even the sound isn't up to much - some reports say you'd get better quality from a £10 CD player.

You don't even get a disc anymore. Most OEM manufacters stick on it a recovery partion, no disc, so if you've got an 80gb drive (like many cheaper laptops do), time you stick office on theres virtually no space left.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

one of the larger independent companies that do benchmark tests tested Vistas SP1 and XP's SP3 patches,(not sure when both are to be released, Vistas SP1 was 1 to 2 percent faster and surprisingly XP's new SP3 is 10% faster that SP2 apparently making XP twice as fast as Vista.
They have also increased the product support for XP to another 5Years. which makes me think i wont b buying into vista for some time yet....

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

"But we know what went wrong. We won't repeat the old mistakes"
"Yeah, we'll make all new ones" - Jurassic Part II (I think..;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Bad news
It has been tested heavily vista sp1 and it hardly increases vista speed, that's why he delaying xp 3 service pack, as testing of xp3 service pack increases xp performance by another 10%.
That's why I'm waiting for windows 7 in 2010 and bypassing the stop gap vista, as windows 7 will leave vista standing in the speed department.

it's not that I don't believe you guys, it's that I don't see HOW it could be true; with so many million CPUs destined to run it, how could Microsoft stand up under such a monumental debacle?

Meanwhile, others are loving it and reporting it great and fast for 3d applilcations.

::::: Opera :::::

i suppose it's the luck of the draw if you have no problems with any of microsofts new OS's but lets face it as with any software (even Poser)the new version always needs a few updates before its really what you would call better and more stable than its predecessor, and even more so in my opionion when your playing with the OS....

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

I've been reading these discussions on Vista because it's time for me to replace my old desktop. There have been enough issues with Vista compatibility that I've been leaning towards getting a system with XP. Since I hold on to computers for more than two years, it appears I'll be better off skipping Vista as an operating system.

I'll never understand why it is so hard for MS to be backwards compatible. When will they understand that we only need a stable operating system that lets us use our applications?

My visual indexes of Poser content are at http://www.sharecg.com/pf/rgagnon

I'm looking forward to the SP.
Vista (for me) already outperforms XP in almost every category; most especially multi-tasking, multi-threading, and network file access/sharing.
Any improvements is just icing on the cake.

Friends don't let friends use booleans.

dvlenk6 do you have 32-bit or 64-bit, and if the later do you have more than 4gig ram installed?

I'm with dvlenko, I've been using Vista Ultimate 64 for Months now with Poser 6 and 7, Vue6Infinite, PS CS3, games and other software and I've had no issues!
And a hot fix fixed the networking issues so I'm networked properly at home now too.
Pisses all over XP as far as I'm concerned.
Wouldn't go back to XP if you paid me!!

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Vista is good at many things, including Graphics and Networking. It's the booting up and running hundreds of backgrounds services that is a bit annoying. Had to tweak the hell out of it to get the system flying, and now it's pretty speedy.

I'm certain Vista 64 is great. It's 64 bit, so one can have plenty of RAM. I haven't had any Poser issues releated to Vista with the 32 home premium, only to video drivers. And come next year, it'll replace my TV, since everything will be HD and my computer has the tuner.

As for Operaguys' rhetorical question: How? It's Microsoft. MS also stated that Vista was the most secure, state-of-theart system, blah, blah... but look at this service release -- it's huge, mostly security features. Even companies make mistakes, and MS did so in the past with ME.

But even Poser 6 wasn't stable until SR3.

Looking forward to any improvements SP1 can offer.

-- Jeff

The fact that an OS works fine for some people is not really a defense.

Unlike a graphics tool, an OS is required to be universal. That's the whole point!
It should run smoothly on all relatively current machines.

With Microsoft's huge staff and huge resources, they can afford to test on a
wide variety of setups, including 3d graphics and big files, for heaven's sake.
Obviously they didn't.

Hmm, despite all the slowness I've had with Vista and even the networking issue with NM (and yea, I did reinstall it Jeff, made no difference :sad: ) I do notice that Vista boots up very fast compared to XP Pro! There are many things I LOVE about Vista and many things I love about XP (including stability and running faster ONCE it's booted up!! Take the best of both and make a new OS with that.... one can dream, cant one?? :lol:

Believe me, with hearing that support for XP has been extended for another 5 years makes it tempting but my laptop is by Everex and the guys that hang out at their forums stated that there are too many things that are tightly hooked into needing Vista that if I were to downgrade to XP I may loose some functionality for the laptop not to mention that the keyboard and all the needed drivers that I don't think that XP is able to provide since Everex has it's own proprietary keyboard layout (which is a royal PITA to deal with, I'm always tapping keys that I didn't mean to tap :mad: )

Sigh... so I will just go with the SP 1 when it's released. CNET just sent out their news letter stating it was finalized and that Server 2008 will be released on the 27th of this month but didn't mention the release date of the Vista SP 1. Hope it's sooner than later!!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Latest news: SP1 was released to manufacturing today, to be included in new PC's.

The bad news: previous VISTA "users" have to wait until mid-March before it become available to Windows Update/Download Center.

Microsoft also stated that some device drivers will not work with SP1 until an update is released afer SP1's release.

So now mid-March for the download. meh.

-- Jeff

Meh! :mad:

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Guess the good news is that it was released ahead of schedule (it was to be simultaneously with Server 2008 on the 27th), and it does give companies a month and a half to update their drivers for SP1.

So it looks like I'll be getting SP1 for my birthday.

-- Jeff

I did not want to update to Vista AT ALL, so I bought a Mac instead. Not being glib or anything, it has been a painless experience.

Quote - dvlenk6 do you have 32-bit or 64-bit, and if the later do you have more than 4gig ram installed?

64-bit, 8GB RAM.

Friends don't let friends use booleans.

Meh. I'll seriously consider upgrading to Vista when the consensus of the "YEA's!" outweighs the "meh's". And I haven't seen that happening yet.

I can't say what I will or will not do, OS wise, in the near future. But I might end up waiting for Windows 7 -- and hoping that it's not a disappointment. Then again -- if (IF) they actually succeed in fixing Vista in the meantime -- to the point where the currently-prevailing "meh's" start to fade into the province of the hardcore malcontents (who'll never like an MS product no matter WHAT MS does).......once the "meh's" belong exclusively to the malcontents......then I'll consider installing Vista 64.

Will MS get it right this time? I dunno. One can always hope.

No way will I go to MAC. I love too many programs I can only run on Windows and emulation is not an option for me. It sucks up system resources and I just don't have the money for a super expensive computer like I would need in order for that to happen. MAC's easily double in price as you add more goodies to them. Bigger screens, more memory, more processor speed... larger hard drives even. Nope. I'll deal just fine, thank you!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/01/22/financial/f135238S53.DTL&feed=rss.news

Macs aren't a realistic alternative for me, either -- at least not in the foreseeable future. And likewise in my case: it's for compatibility reasons.

It was interesting to note that while we'd been hearing a lot in recent months about how fabulously well Apple was doing -- it turns out that they weren't.

Live by the iPod, die by the iPod.......I suppose.

Don't get me wrong, it was difficult to make the transition from Windows. I found that a lot of programs I thought I couldn't live without - turns it I don't need them anyway, though I understand that for several people this will not be the case. Python for instance is well supported; maybe some apps need to be compiled (gcc being native to the UNIX that runs underneath the GUI), but again this is not for everyone.

For the sake of friendly debate, I'd be interested to know what the "can't live without" apps are. Universal Texture Converter is the only one I truly miss.

Though I have not used it, Parallels is supposed to be just as fast as a native Windows box unless you play games, which I don't. I've still got all my Windows boxes (running 2000), but I will never, ever update to Vista. Linux doesn't support anything I'd like, so what other alternatives are they? BeOS? Ha!

Oh, and I don't have an Ipod, Iphone or any other Idevice.

I don't have X amount of money to spend on a license for Photoshop CS
I DEARLY love Irfanview. You can tell me that there are other free image viewers for MAC but as many alternatives as I've tried for Windows I always go back to Irfanview and it's not even perfect but I love it anyways.
All the content, sit files, I'd have to download from all the multiple sites that even have MAC compatible sets for MAC platform in order to get my runtimes and DAZ Studio Content folders filled again! gag just the thought of having to go through that makes me wanna be sick.
list goes on but those are 3 immediate issues for me right off the bat. Basically, money, time and what I'm used to all being compromised not to mention just learning the OS! Nope!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

So, for a dedicated 3D development and render rig that won't be connected to the internet and is not for games, and for a no-turning-back 64 Bit install....

Which flavor do I want?

Home Basic OEM? Retail? It keep reading that the OEM cannot be installed on a different machine once installed on one. I hope this does not mean there is trouble if you rebuild and have to reinstall on the same machine.

Why would I need anything more than Home Basic? It opens up 8Gig RAM (other flavors open up more, but hey, 8Gig is probably all my MOBO will digest anyway.)

If HomeBasic64 gives me the 3D speed I want, but a different flavor would increase that speed, I love to know that.

Any thoughts?

::::: Opera :::::

If you need to install to a different or a rebuilt computer then you would need to call MS for a new Key. I've done this with my copy of XP Pro multiple times. They are a nice bunch there and think this is as stupid a way of going about this as we do so no fears there!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

I get it, and that would not be a problem as far as OEM.

Not that I know of considering my copy of XP Pro is OEM!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Quote - For the sake of friendly debate, I'd be interested to know what the "can't live without" apps are. Universal Texture Converter is the only one I truly miss.

In my case, AutoCAD. And possibly 3ds max at some future date. Apples of any variety are virtually unknown in the engineering world.

Quote - Oh, and I don't have an Ipod, Iphone or any other Idevice.

No one has to own one.......it's just that Apple's recent success is largely attributable to iDevice sales. So when the iDevice sales didn't live up to expectations in a given quarter and prior to the holidays: many big-time investors bailed. Which did an overnight number on Apple's stock price.

That situation might have little to do with Apple in terms of their PC market performance, which appears to be good. But it does demonstrate how closely the success / lack of success of Apple as a company is tied to devices such as the iPod and iPhone. It makes it look like Apple's overall corporate health is tied more closely to the iPod than it is to the MAC.

It has been in recent years. An there was a also a report that hurt them, when it showed huge sales numbers in Iphones, but almost 1/3 of them in stock in apple stores unsold. Basically it sounded like apple "sold" the iphones to it's own stores, reported that as breakthrough sales, and then since technically since they still owned them sitting on shelves, that hurt the credibility of Iphone sales, and Apple itself.

All I want from Apple is for quicktime to stop bugging me to do an Itunes install! I just want quicktime for videos that need it to play back.. I don't want or NEED Itunes.. LOL!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Quote - All I want from Apple is for quicktime to stop bugging me to do an Itunes install! I just want quicktime for videos that need it to play back.. I don't want or NEED Itunes.. LOL!

Yes -- that's irritating. The Apple updater is constantly trying to get me to download & install iTunes. Grrrrrrrrrr.........

Yeah... like bi weekly!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

yes that is irritating. Also, I foolishly installed Safari for Windows! You should see the attempts Steve makes to update THAT on my PC. I am too lazy to remove it, but I will eventually.

Just either build it inot quicktime and force everyone to install it, or give us an opt out option so we aren't naggd by it all the time.

Makes me wanna google the web to see if anyone's hacked it to remove that nag...LOL!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I'm not a big fan of Itunes either but Quicktime + H2.64 + my future BluRay drive will rule!

Touche' regarding AutoCAD and 3dsMax. Personally I find the Max interface unintuitive and difficult to navigate - perhaps I'm biased from my time with Maya, which makes more sense to me. Regarding engineers and PCs, you're probably right since PCs are more configurable. Too bad those guys don't know that Unix is installed on each one and has a cool 2D -3D function grapher to help colleagues visualize their new BRDF.

Ironically, the only problem I have with Safari is accessing my hotmail account. I should probably port over to gmail.

I wasn't aware of Apple's recent corporate health as they've always been underdog-like but I've always known that unlike Microsoft, their profits have been tied with hardware sales. Once they switched to Intel I couldn't resist - especially since all but the most powerful Macs are competitively priced with PCs (no, I'm not delusional). BTW, they are nearly immune to viruses and spyware, though I imagine that will change once more people are running them.

I don't know what Irfanview is, but I love the native image viewer which also opens PDFs. Actually the ability to write PDFs is native to the system, which has been a great help for distributing training materials that I generate for work.

Paying for another Photoshop license is a real concern, linking to my Windows Runtime is not. Though I know we all have limited time, the whole "this is the way things have always been done" mentality sounds like "the Earth is flat" to me. That is in no way meant to be an attack.

Again, I'm just one guy with a point of view. To me, for 3D I think Windows 2000 is nearly the best OS around because it's so lean but currently unsupported and not exactly artist friendly. XP is functional but bloated, and according to this thread Vista is slower (translation: more overhead) than XP. If I need a number crunching machine, I don't need for the GUI and unused utilities taking away system resources.

Well, of all the Apple products I do have an iPod and want an iTouch in the worst way. No desire for an iPhone though. So when iTunes wants to update, I've learned the hard way that the player doesn't function as well when you don't upgrade after a while. I do find it also irritating that Apple insists that you download and install iTunes and Quicktime, yup, that's not cool. Their installer updater aught to read the programs on the system and ONLY update what it finds not shove a program down your throat you don't want or need.

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Well, at least this hasn't turned into a Linux thread :)

I've heard nothing but praise for Vista 64, in comparision to Vista 32 Home Premium, but with 64, you can crank up the RAM, which Vista needs to run (yes, Vista is a resource hog).

If you haven't bought Vista, wait untl after the SP1 is released in March. We'll see how things pan out by then. I'm certain there'll be many online reports on how well it works. And I'm fairly certain that MS won't hesitate to throw out many more hotfixes afterwards. In fact, MS is URGING folks to participate in the bug report program built into Vista, to help them get the rest of the data on how they can improve it. No more hubris.

Now, let's see how fast the program and computer companies are to get up to speed with SP1. They've been slow with Vista support itself, but, like Microsoft , perhaps they'll eat the crow and do the work expediately.

-- Jeff

Well, I need to purchase before March.

I have a fairly narrow usage list for this rig. What is persuading me now towards Vista64 is the multicore CPU (Core2Quad) and full motherboard of RAM (8GIG) which 3DSMax 2008-64 will utilize. I am reading that XP64 will lag in performance over Vista64.

It won't be on the internet, no games, no deep legacy apps, etc., just Adobe AF and PS, Carrara, Poser and Max. I understand Poser32 and Carrara32 will not be advantaged past 4Gig RAM.

I can't find a reason not to go with Vista64. It's SP1 in March will be gravy for me by that time.

Any naysayers for my particular purposes?

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - Well, I need to purchase before March.

I have a fairly narrow usage list for this rig. What is persuading me now towards Vista64 is the multicore CPU (Core2Quad) and full motherboard of RAM (8GIG) which 3DSMax 2008-64 will utilize. I am reading that XP64 will lag in performance over Vista64.

It won't be on the internet, no games, no deep legacy apps, etc., just Adobe AF and PS, Carrara, Poser and Max. I understand Poser32 and Carrara32 will not be advantaged past 4Gig RAM.

I can't find a reason not to go with Vista64. It's SP1 in March will be gravy for me by that time.

Any naysayers for my particular purposes?

::::: Opera :::::

No issues here with Vista Ultimate X64 runs like a dream on an AMD X2 5200+, 4 GB Ram.
Only issues encountered have been the need to switch off UAC to install Poser and some other programmes and sadly I have never been able to get Face Shop Pro 3.5 to run properly on Vista in either 64 bit or 32 bit.

My only real complaint with Vista is the annoying issue of it not keeping a user's desktop arrangement - particularly in dual screens - it's been a case of not letting anyone else use their login account if I want my icons arranged as I like them....

I'd say go for it - should do your job nicely.....

Edit to Add:-
Carrara seems to love the 64 bit environment and purrs along nicely - I have never seen the ram go above 61% even on heavy renders with both cores peaking.

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

Should be a good choice. I wish I had the money to upgrade to 64.

Just finished reading up on the latest release notes and improvements in SP1.

From the Microsoft blog, it's aapparent that they are releasing this slowly for better press :) In fact, if your system has one of the known device drivers that won't work with SP1 (due to those drivers installation, not the drivers themselves), you won't be able to download the update.

Okay, need to go render something now :)

-- Jeff

Hmmm, I wonder, is the upgrade from 32 to 64 possible or will I loose everything and have to start over? I REALLY hate having almost a gig of my RAM not available. I think that's a crime. Wasted money and wasted RAM! :mad: If it's fairly easy and it's going to add more functionality as well as speed then I'm all for it. Just wondering how apps like PSCS 2, DAZ Studio and others are going to run on it and if I'll have to set them to run as 32 bit apps....

Any info for me on that end of things??

---Wolff On The Prowl---

If Vista 64 is anything like XP 64, then 32-bit apps should run in 32-bit emulation mode. Fortunately, you get 4GB address space for these! :) And, yeah, having 4GB+ and a 32-bit OS makes one smack forehead and say, "I coulda had a 64-bit!" I did that for quite a while - mainly before the advent of ubiquitous 64-bit hardware and Windows OSs. One thing to remember is that a dual-processor divies up 4GB - but the apps still don't get more than 3GB. It's a bit of a win-lose-win situation there.

It seems to be taking an awfully long time for drivers/software to make the 64-bit transition. Maybe it was the same from 16-bit to 32-bit (eh hem, I was on a 32-bit Amiga at the time - that's my alibi and I'm stickin' to it). I jumped my software over to 64-bit as soon as I could and my name isn't Billy G. One might think that sales (greed, money, green gold) has some influence at the moment...

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

-- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

No can't upgrade your 32 to 64 - have to start again.

Don't have to setup anything to run as 32 bit - they just run........

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

I've got the inside track on SP1. You Vista owners out there will find SP1 does fix some issues and addresses some complaints, but it is and will forever be bloated and a resource hog.

There is absolutely nothing you can do about that.

I miss the Win2k speediness and UI, but whatever.

-CG

As the default standard CPU for Windows becomes a Core2Quad and 8GIG RAM only costs a few hundred dollars, an OS that frolics in 1-1.5 GIG is a joy...if it delivers a rewarding desktop experience. In otherwords, one person's "resource hog" is another persons 'higher level experience."

Quote - As the default standard CPU for Windows becomes a Core2Quad and 8GIG RAM only costs a few hundred dollars, an OS that frolics in 1-1.5 GIG is a joy...if it delivers a rewarding desktop experience. In otherwords, one person's "resource hog" is another persons 'higher level experience."

That about sums it up - Opera

Even now here in Australia - most of the home user market computers now being sold are 64 bit dual core - dealers are not pushing 32 bit computers at all - apart from the notebook market.

The change is coming and people will have to live with it - the motherboards etc just won't be available anymore to replace "aging" computers that 12 months ago were state of the art.

My machine came in at under $AUD 1000 without an O/S and is as follows:-

AMD X2 5200+ X64
4 GB Ram
DVD RW
8 in 1 Card Reader
320 GB SATA
NVidia 8600 GT

And at that the dealer who put the bits together didn't consider it a dream machine - he was only amazed at the amount of ram I ordered.

We are now seeing similar machines being advertised to the home market with 2 GB ram and Vista for $AUD 1100 - 1200.

My motherboard will take up to 8GB ram - so I figure if I expand to that I may get away without an upgrade for maybe 2- 3 years.

And as for the bloated Vista thing - well M$ aren't making XP or 2000 any longer so people will have to learn to live with it if they want to upgrade their computers.

The there is also this
www.vlite.net/about.html
Seems as though it supports 64 bit as well.
www.start64.com/index.php

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

And as for the bloated Vista thing - well M$ aren't making XP or 2000 any longer so people will have to learn to live with it if they want to upgrade their computers.

I don't know about M$ not making XP anymore but XP is available all over the place. I see it in stores and online (even my computer guy has XP Home and XP Pro available). Many pre-built computer systems have now gone back to offering XP as an option. M$ intends to continue support of XP for five more years - that desparate huh? And with MSDN, I don't have to see the inside of a Vista disc for quite a while.

Gamers keep giving the finger (two if your English) to Vista for being shit-for-brains for playing their games. Not my thing, but when you upset the gamers (ya know, the people who have made the gaming industry worth more than Hollywood and NASA combined?) that's a bad thing.

And again, you talk about everyone pushing 64-bit hardware. And we have several flavors of 64-bit Windows OS. Where are the drivers and software? Bleating on about, well, you can use these newest/latest three models even though there are five thousand others to choose from. That's just wrong. Are we Apple now? You can have the chicken...

Again, I'll wait a bit. I did the same thing with XP - but not as long (SP2).

Finally, no, I don't have to 'live with it (Vista)'. Hmmm. I've upgraded three computers in the last 8 months (the most recent just last week) and not one has Vista on it. I don't see forcing to get Vista. The 'older' machine is an Intel Q6600 QuadCore with 8GB, 1.5TB SATAII drives, Blu-Ray DVD, and GeForce 8800 GTX. XP Pro has no complaints. Don't believe the lies that XP Pro can't handle this stuff...

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

-- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Quote -
I don't know about M$ not making XP anymore but XP is available all over the place. I see it in stores and online (even my computer guy has XP Home and XP Pro available). Many pre-built computer systems have now gone back to offering XP as an option. M$ intends to continue support of XP for five more years - that desparate huh? And with MSDN, I don't have to see the inside of a Vista disc for quite a while.

Your point is taken and valid - but I would question as to how many unopened copies of XP 64 bit are still out there on the market - to take advantage of the extra ram you really need the 64 bit OS.

I'm thinking that at the time that XP 64 bit was produced not a lot of people were quick to adopt 64 bit technology - it's only just now it is starting to take hold and it is of no real benefit for anyone to put a 32 bit O/S on a 64 bit machine it won't perform to it's fullest.

Your local Computer guy may have XP still in stock - I would have to shop around and go for a hunt on ebay or at a swap meet to find an unopened copy of XP and then 64 bit are as rare as hens teeth.

Depends on where you live and the attitude of resellers what will be available - and remember I am stating unopened - I would hate to run the chance of buying a copy of XP only to find that it wouldn't activate......

So perhaps we should be careful what we say - as someone new to computers could stumble upon threads like this and get the impression that they can go out and buy a nice new 64 bit machine and pick up a 2nd hand copy of XP Pro and throw on it and it will be a whiz bang machine.

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

NewEgg, Amazon, etc are still selling XP64.

I have XP Pro 64 + XP Media Edition (32 bit) on a dual-boot setup. My processor is a Core 2 Duo. 4G's of RAM. I have no intentions of switching to Vista in the near future. It's possible that MS might turn on a dime with future fixes to Vista: but I'm not in any hurry to switch.

Vista Service Pack announcement -> Vista bashing orgy -> howto get/install XP
Typical internet drivel at it's finest. I'm sure all of the 'facts' about Vista here will be regurgitated/spammed around the net on many forums.
What surprises me is that more Vista users don't step up to say what a load of garbage most of it is.

Friends don't let friends use booleans.

Quote -
What surprises me is that more Vista users don't step up to say what a load of garbage most of it is.

As I said earlier in this thread - no real issues here with Vista Ultimate X64 - apart from Poser 5 and FaceShop Pro 3.5 everything else has worked fine.

Have been using Vista Ultimate on an AMD 3200+ 32 bit with 2 GB ram - no real issues there apart from again FaceShop Pro.

I also run Vista Home Basic on my notebook - Acer 5220 Celeron 1.7 with 2 GB ram - I will admit that the 512 MB ram that it came with didn't cut it as far as Vista is concerned - it needs at least a 1 GB.

Like it or love it - it's an individual thing and all I can say is I am happy working with Vista.

Apart from the desktop icons as mentioned before.

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

Quote -
What surprises me is that more Vista users don't step up to say what a load of garbage most of it is.

-shrug- I got tired of repeating myself.
I've used Vista (32bit home edition, 2g of ram) almost a year and have had no problems whatsoever. On a Dell, even!!! -gasp!-
I use all the programs I ran before on XP.
Sure, I've tweaked the hell outta it to free memory, I'd not go back to XP, ever.
;)

In no way, shape or form am I (or others) 'bashing' Vista. I am, however, recognizing the realities of the situation as it currently stands. There's no doubt whatsoever that Vista has experienced many compatibility problems with 'legacy' software -- that is to say: software which was written prior to the release of Vista. Repeating this fact does not constitute "bashing". Nor is the observation of this fact strictly the province of individual malcontents: the onus behind MS's decision to support XP five years out is the result of recognizing that their large corporate clients aren't switching over to Vista in anything like a hurry. And there are reasons -- valid reasons -- why the corporate world is doing this.

Perhaps MS will fix many of the very real problems with Vista this time around. We'll see. I hope that they do. But I wouldn't be too hasty to dismiss as meaningless the legitimate complaints of some. Sure, a few anti-MS-no-matter-what types are adding their shrill squeaks to the anti-Vista noise. But I'm not one of those. Nor are the corporations who are customers of MS's products........corporations who aren't buying into Vista in droves just yet.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradeadvisor.mspx

Agreed; The issue for me and others is that we have a pipeline that uses legacy applications. If all of your apps are Vista-compatible, your pipeline is fine, otherwise there's trouble.

Well, I love bashing Microsoft stuff, because it usually IS a pile of crap until SP1 come out, haha!

However, new rig, 8 gig RAM, quad core etc, and Vista Ultimate 64...OMFG...what an ENJOYABLE difference :)
had some problems,but mostly it's miles better. Don't wanna go back.

"I'd rather be a Fool who believes in Dragons, Than a King who believes in Nothing!" www.silverblades-suitcase.com
Free tutorials, Vue & Bryce materials, Bryce Skies, models, D&D items, stories.
Tutorials on Poser imports to Vue/Bryce, Postwork, Vue rendering/lighting, etc etc!

well, then too, there's 5 versions of Vista, from the Home version up to Ultimate. Yeah, Ultimate has loads of capabilities the business and other versions don't, so it makes comparisons here a little hard to square..;)

I had a chance to get Vista on my new machine, but went with XP Pro...;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

3/3/08

I have Windows Mediacenter on an otherwise perfectly good computer. When I bought the computer, Mediacenter was advertised by Gateway as having all the features of XP Pro, but it doesn't. The /3GB switch (installed as per the MS page on the subject) does not work on my Mediacenter computer.

Is anyone else using Poser 7 on Mediacenter? After researching Mediacenter a little more closely, it seems to have a lot of conflicts with a number of graphics programs. Mediacenter considers itself to be XP Pro, so one cannot upgrade/sidegrade to XP Pro (it fails, and most forums strongly warn against the attempt). A number of people attempting a clean install of XP Pro on systems designed for Mediacenter say that it will not install at all.

It is possible to upgrade a computer with Mediacenter to Vista. The question is, how much memory do the various 32bit Vista versions allow Poser to use? Right now I am trapped at the 2GB limit (though my Poser.exe process crashes at 1.31GB, certainly well before it reaches 1.4 GB - I have 4GB installed - I render in a seperate process with only one thread).

A way forward with this computer is not obvious. I would like to get it working as well as possible, but keep it against the possible future of rendering on several computers over a network.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

I have Windows XP Media Center Edition alongside XP Pro 64 on a dual boot. I rarely use the Media Center Edition setup any longer. Or at least as little as I possibly can. Unfortunately, for some few things I have to use 32 bit.

Here's a link to an old thread that you might find interesting:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3140697&ebot_calc_page#message_3140697

BTW - I believe that it's not a problem to upgrade to Vista from XP Media Center Edition. Or at least so the Microsoft-supplied Vista Upgrade Advisor told me.

Personally, I have no plans to "upgrade" to Vista at this time. I am planning on sticking with XP Pro 64 until the kinks are worked out of Vista.......or Windows 7, whenever that's out. With my own PC's specs, I should be ready for a new machine at around the time that Windows 7 is slated to come out -- if everything goes as expected.

3/3/08

The processor I have, Dual Core 2.8 GHz, is 64 bit, but the motherboard and memory seem to be 32 bit. I also have two SATA drives, and research makes it seem very difficult to install SATA drives on 64 bit systems (requiring a floppy drive of all things, and in the 21st century - that's just sloppy of M$). I don't want to buy XP Pro 64 or a Vista 64 OS, and botch the instalation because of the SATA drives.

Do any virsions of Vista 32 bit allow for more program memory than the 2GB limit of Mediacenter?

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Quote - 3/3/08

The processor I have, Dual Core 2.8 GHz, is 64 bit, but the motherboard and memory seem to be 32 bit. I also have two SATA drives, and research makes it seem very difficult to install SATA drives on 64 bit systems (requiring a floppy drive of all things, and in the 21st century - that's just sloppy of M$). I don't want to buy XP Pro 64 or a Vista 64 OS, and botch the instalation because of the SATA drives.

Do any virsions of Vista 32 bit allow for more program memory than the 2GB limit of Mediacenter?

LMK

?????????

I have SATA HD's on my 64 bit machine and no floppy....... no problems here installing Vista Ultimate 64

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz
64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
Geforce RTX 3060 12 GB
Windows 11 Pro

Vista 32 (Home Premium is what I have) allows 4 GB, but 3GB can be actually used with Vista HP.

I have a Vista is all about the Media Center, and I really haven't had much trouble with Media Center on either my Vista box or my XP Media Center box.

BTW, I am currently runnning Vista SP1 (found the download link from an RTM at a forum), and it's slightly better. It does copy files faster over a disk and from other disks. I had no trouble installing it, although it did take several hours after the several hours of downloading.

Now I'm just waiting on SP3 for my XP box.

-- Jeff

Quote - 3/3/08

The processor I have, Dual Core 2.8 GHz, is 64 bit, but the motherboard and memory seem to be 32 bit. I also have two SATA drives, and research makes it seem very difficult to install SATA drives on 64 bit systems (requiring a floppy drive of all things, and in the 21st century - that's just sloppy of M$). I don't want to buy XP Pro 64 or a Vista 64 OS, and botch the instalation because of the SATA drives.

The link to the old thread that I provided -- that thread has links to a free program called "nLite", which is specifically made to address this problem. It worked for me, and did an excellent job, too.

But it's true -- you need a 64 bit system in order to run a 64 bit OS. You need to verify that first.