First let me say that I think all competition is good...good for the end user and good for competing companies. Just like a sports team, sometimes the vetern becomes complacent...but the backup pushes the vetern to new heights.
The competition I'm speaking of is DAZ and SmithMicro.

If you look at the pre SM merger/take over of Poser, DAZ made a significant move with a new Carrara (wasn't it months before?). Now we have a new V4, some old Poser sites are now moving to new camps. Also, some old vets stopped visiting/posting here (won't name whom I'm thinking of...but to me it's obvious).
For an honest observation...explore this forum, now go explore DAZ's forum.

How do you feel? What do you think?

Comitted to excellence through art.

Hi DarkEdge

Come on over to Daz,  it's where the par-tay's at!

Cheers

Pat

I think as far as it all goes, everyone has their own agenda. Things change. Always have.

As long as a builder of 3D can open a modeler and build something in what was an empty screen and export it into another of these programs it isn't going to end my experience. Daz is doing their thing and making some changes(so what). I expect others will too before it's finished.

I just got a new Terms of Service notice from Daz. Except the terms or leave.

I do not know what has been going on over there at Daz, but I did read some stuff about hacking the site in the notice and reverse engineering of their programs. Has anyone else gotten this notice and do they see anything special?

I just got it. I think it's more the use of images by artists and submissions to the gallery. SOme folks were concerned that in the old TOS it sounded like Daz could take your images and tough luck to you.

SUBMITTED MATERIALS
For all of the User Materials that you post, you will retain all copyright control and ownership. DAZ 3D respects the rights of artists and will not grant any rights that extend beyond those already granted by the artist. DAZ 3D does not pre-screen User Materials that users provide or otherwise submit via the Site or Services; however, DAZ 3D may remove any posted or submitted User Materials from the Site or any Service for any reason without notice in its sole discretion. By posting or submitting your User Materials, you represent and warrant that you own or otherwise control all of the Intellectual Property Rights and other rights to your User Materials as described in these Terms of Service, including all the rights necessary for you to post or submit your User Materials. While you retain copyright control of submitted materials, submission provides to DAZ 3D a limited license to DAZ 3D to use submitted materials for marketing or promotional purposes, provided that reasonable efforts are taken by DAZ 3D to receive permission regarding such use from you.

Maybe the new terms will make them feel better? Daz markets some good stuff, but not everyone makes stuff just for Daz products. Daz doesn't sell anything for the G2 line that I'm aware of and although they are the most popular now it doesn't mean that they will continue to be. Tides come in and tides go out. The fish go where the water is. I think there characters are getting to high tech for the average beginner. Just my opinion but  most of the ideas have already been used.  Aiko  4?

Poser for the time being is pursuing the high end market and if they continue to make hobbyist programs also in the future then it could be a good thing. There is a lot of know how in the high end arena.  

I just occasionally need to go to a forum community where I can cuss and spit a bit - within reasonable limits -  when I rant about Poser-related stuff.

So far, Renderosity and DAZ3D forums allows me to do this without gagging me and chucking me into the disposal bin.

I'm cool with both locations.  No packing bags and moving for me.

As for merchants and other luminaries who up and leave - sure, when I find them again, I'd like to visit their on-line premises, see their stuff, maybe buy the things I like.

Eternal Hobbyist

 

I think merchants left here when they tightened the nudity rules in the thumbnails. I think that's when BVH took down most of his store.

I think that Content Paradise is one big reason for the upset. It's really the new kid on the block and it's a big kid. Look at Daz. It has thumbnail rules; so does CP. You can buy Rendo products on Content Paradise and look at how a lot of Rendo's merchants made CP their mainstay market place exclusively and used to sell exclusively here on Rendo. Couple that with the TOS. The thumbnail thing is not the major problem really. Now figure Rendo has to pay Content Paradise a cut of everything sold there and that comes out of their cut. I look around at the different sites and a lot of the vendors from here have banners in other places now. They hunt the high volume markets and sell on a variety of them. The new exclusives they give to places like here at Rendo ,CP and Daz.
The smaller sellers get their vintage products because they get more for the "new" exclusives on the power seller sites without the penalties plus they get advertised in a high traffic area. But these merchants are very popular. Everybody wants them. They sell wherever they go; so it becomes a matter of where they will sell the most. 

I had a really bad experience with CP. They closed my account because my daughter used a coupon more than once, and I only found out she did it after my account was closed and I yelled around my house about it. All they had to do was ask me to give them the lousy $9.99 or whatever, and I would have, because she should not have done it. Instead they said "Your IP address and computer ID did it" This was the lovely Ratscloset person. I spend thousands, and I mean thousands of dollars on 3D content and the way they did it was nasty. I asked them how I could redownload my stuff and he said, "sorry, no access to disabled accounts". While I know sites have TOS, using a coupon is not the same as child porn and I can't lock up my PC. My 15-year-old thinks she can do whatever. Well, now Smith-Micro has just lost my business forever over something so stupid. Why they would want to lose a good customer over a $10.00 coupon and not try to work it out is beyond me.

I think most fifteen year olds think they can do whatever. Actually they can. It seems though washing the dishes isn't one of them.

Or cleaning their rooms, LOL!

I've never used a coupon twice before. Was it entered under a different account name or something. One computer can have several accounts on it. It doesn't mean the same person is using it. That really sounds harsh.

USE OF DAZ 3D MATERIALS
Any DAZ 3D Materials or Content made available only upon payment of a fee or execution of a separate agreement may only be viewed, downloaded and printed subject to your payment of such fee or execution of such separate agreement.

How does this effect the 'freebies'? Does it effect the the freebies that later go on sale?

Quote - I had a really bad experience with CP. They closed my account because my daughter used a coupon more than once, and I only found out she did it after my account was closed and I yelled around my house about it. All they had to do was ask me to give them the lousy $9.99 or whatever, and I would have, because she should not have done it. Instead they said "Your IP address and computer ID did it" This was the lovely Ratscloset person. I spend thousands, and I mean thousands of dollars on 3D content and the way they did it was nasty. I asked them how I could redownload my stuff and he said, "sorry, no access to disabled accounts". While I know sites have TOS, using a coupon is not the same as child porn and I can't lock up my PC. My 15-year-old thinks she can do whatever. Well, now Smith-Micro has just lost my business forever over something so stupid. Why they would want to lose a good customer over a $10.00 coupon and not try to work it out is beyond me.

It's that exact heavy handed kind of action by corporates that have me upset at all of them these days. Any reasonable person could have made that mistake even if an adult by accident. It's easy to have used a coupon and forget then use it again or someone in the household use one and not tell you thus you wind up using it again. All they had to do is reverse the sale or at worst make it so you couldn't purchase from the account while it's being handled. No need to close someone out point blank that way.

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

Hey, it would seem easier to just set things up so the user couldn't enter the same coupon twice. You know, bounce it like a bad check before it happens.

My daughter also has an account here, but she uses my charge card. I had to explain that to Rendo and there was no problem. They thought someone was hacking me. She only has a few pics in her gallery because she is "Too busy". She signed up at CP to get the freebie, but I don't know anything else. Ratscloset person just quoted the TOS and said I gave false information. They did not even ask me.  I buy things, I don't have to steal things, and if my daughter used the coupon more than once I would have reimbursed them for it. I was so angry I did not even bother to try to talk to them again. They can kiss my you know what and to heck with their new Poser, LOL!

Heck hath no fury like a woman scorned!

I'm glad there are people like you who don't put up with it. We don't spend our money at places like that just to get brushed aside or kicked in the shins by them.

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

That's a fact, Jack!

Drifterlee -

That kind of nastiness is what I encountered over on PoserPros (and subsequently they have not gotten ONE PENNY from me EVER again) before Daz took over running them. I know where you're coming from in other words. heheh.

I don't buy stuff at CP much. As far as I'm concerned, let SmithMicro and Daz headbutt themselves into a concussion in the pro-market arena. I don't care. I really don't. I will purchase at the locations that offer the products I desire. I buy from Rendo, from Daz, from RDNA, from 3DCommune. Really about the only place I flat refuse to spend so much as a penny at IS PoserPros. LOL

And I think BVH picked up and moved his store long before the Thumbnails Fiasco ocurred. I know he'd been planning to move for quite some time before he actually did, so I think the Thumbnails Fiasco probably contributed to it, but was not the definitive factour. He still sells. It's just that it's through his own site now, rather than any 'big' marketplace.

~ Seliah

Wow, thats bad luck with CP, seems you got screwed over by Poserworld once before also.
Both have been very good to me, as has all the Market Places... well almost . Do you remember a site called PoserStyle....  :(

Niles, I like your avatar...very cute.

I haven't had a problem at CP or here.
They only issue I have here is that they limit the file size for my products and I don't see any advertising for myself. CP is more professional in that regard, great upload system, good advertising.
I'm sorry you had problems, they will be problems sooner or later where ever you go, hopefully you get a good customer rep.
But that wasn't really what I posted about originally...

I'm seeing DAZ push the ball down the court and I haven't seen SmithMicro counter attack (yet). Whatever their counter-attack is going to be, it will need to be a fairly substantial (imo). And it will need to be substantial enough to create a good network buzz for the forums (will PoserPro save the day?). DAZ seems to be very active forum wise, but they are making progress with their products (V4, Carrara). I'm trying to gear my products towards the G2 figures, and I will continue to do so. I'm trying to attack the myth that male figures don't sell, so far the myth is killing me. lol!

Maybe it's time to submit to the dark side (V4) and create characters/armor/clothing for her. It's just that typically I try and steer an opposite course from what the masses do.

Must...resist...the dark...side.

Comitted to excellence through art.

dark side is GOOD in some situations

( cathartic )

Eternal Hobbyist

 

@drifterlee - your tale is one of woe, it makes me want to do less business with CP.  I can't abide by the new law of business today.  There used to be a time when the customer was always right and businesses would bend over backwards to keep your patronage.  Nowadays it seems many businesses are just as quick to tell you to go to hell.

On a related note, I always buy things from their original source.  Most of what CP posts is from here or RDNA.   Two fine companies who have never wronged me.

@Darkedge - I have trouble with the whole Poser vs Daz issue.  First, I don't know how much of it is true and how much of it is user implied.  Everyone, everywhere wants to fight for their winning team, it seems.  To me it's like Coke vs Pepsi or GM vs Ford or Lakers vs Celtics or Christianity vs Judaism.  It's all warmongering at best.

Still, that said, I also have a deep distrust of corporate politics.  I've worked in too many offices to know the behind the scenes of bean-counting vs quality.  I fear for the immediate future of Poser.  I'm no Daz lover, but Daz has never done me wrong.  I've always been at least somewhat satisfied with their products (minus Daz Studio - but that's a personal preference more than a hard comparison).

I would really like to see these two entities get along.  I think a cooperative attitude would do the end users much more justice.  I like the idea of the next generation of Daz figures working seemlessly in the next version of Poser.  I want Carrara and Bryce to have seemless interfaces with Poser.  I need these corporations to get along.  It is important to me on a personal level (hobbywise) and on a professional level.

As far as the Male vs Female characters, stick with doing Male characters.  There is a growing number of women in this community and there will always be men and women interested in something beyond the next sexy female fantasy pin-up.  My complaint with Male figs has been a glaring lack of detailed clothing.  The women's clothes are generations ahead of the males.  I am trying to put together an animation with many male and female characters, and I continually am on the look out for natural quality male clothing.  I'm using almost all the male figs, btw for variety's sake. 

(Put Kelvin and M3 in a scene together with some of the best texture packs around and it's like some virtual cinema magic!)

I see Poser using DAZ figures all of the time, but I rarely see DAZ using Poser figures...to me, it seems the gulf between the two is growing wider.

I think that will ultimately be bad for both. But if one side is continually moving forward and the other isn't (so far).....??? animal kindom survival of the fittest.

Comitted to excellence through art.

Drifterlee, did you talk with a peon when you tried to clear up the issue or did you try to get in contact with the management?  Usually peons are poorly paid, don't see the larger picture, and couldn't care less even if they were better paid and/or saw the big picture.  If you'd still like to do business with them if things were cleared up, try to complain to someone important and that person should probably fix things for you.  Just be nice to him and let him know about the situation.  Bad CS is often corrected by talking to someone who knows the value of good CS and having a reputation worth keeping, instead of one that would make someone such as me not buy from that company.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

I don't see a need for Poser pro.  We have Daz Studio/Carrara and Quidam. 

I haven't seen SmithMicro counter attack either. That would be exciting to see. -^ Over the past year, I spent more at other sites because DAZ is fixated on things I don't care about. But they have had some seriously cool fantasy animal freebies lately, some cool scif, and great software sales. Renderosity is home base for me. It's a great place to get just about everything and an answer to all your questions too. It's user driven, so what floats to the top here, is will the of users. There are many venders here I dearly love. ^^ Content Paradise meanwhile, has some seriously kickass stuff like the Great Rulers for G2 males, PhilC stuff, and the weekly freebies like animals. They are making things you don't get ANYWHERE else. I do love Koji and Miki. ^^ RDNA is the place to go for kickass cool Aiko, Hiro, M3, and Hair stuff. Lady Little Fox is one of my faovrites over there. Since RDNA also sells at CP, I usually do One-stop-shopping at Content Paradise. PoserPros was the place to go for cool stuff like Royloo's outfits, character textures, and Hiro stuff. But now it's gone. sob 3DCommune is the place I go for some sweet female hairs and Vue content.

Quote - I don't see a need for Poser pro.  We have Daz Studio/Carrara and Quidam. 

Speaking of DAZ studio... does anyone know how to export figure OBJ's out of it, and not end up with incompatible facet structure? I think I tried every possible combination of settings, and ended up with a mess. sniffle

As for changes, I like changes in general. Keeps things interesting.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Hmm.... I don't know much about DS, but I bet you could use the FaceShop tutorlals as a guide for how to export from DS and not mess up the facets.

Pat, have you tried rigging in Carrara yet, either an original or conforming clothing/armor?
That is where I would see the need for PoserPro is the rigging creative aspect.

BB, I would love to see SmithMicro counter attack. Like I say though, it's going to have to have some uumph behind it to catch up or lead. Maybe they could ask some of us creators???

DAZ studio is nothing but a render machine, can't do much else with it (imo).

Comitted to excellence through art.

"Speaking of DAZ studio... does anyone know how to export figure OBJ's out of it, and not end up with incompatible facet structure? I think I tried every possible combination of settings, and ended up with a mess. sniffle"

What do you mean by incompatible facet structure? Incompatible to what?

www.Calida3d.com
Daz studio and Poser content creators

I haven't tried rigging in Carrara yet.  I'm writing down all the values of my Lightwave rigs before I try it.  BTW I think SmithMicro has a long way to catch up.

My take is that I don't care.  I want improvements in Poser and in Daz|Studio.  I want better customer support and better content.  The war here is illusionary.  But the problem is that Daz still must be dragged around by the nostrils by Poser - that is where their main provider of income still resides.  D|S can't replace Poser at this stage and if the wind changes significantly with SM, then Daz may find itself playing catchup (to the catchup already in progress - FaceRoom, Shader nodes, animation layers, etc.). The worst outcome would be two competing content formats (at least for a while).

What I dream about: Poser and Daz joining forces (it may be Poser's owner purchasing Daz or vice versa).  This would combine the best of both worlds and stop the contention.  This is better than nightmares about flesh-eating zombies, I'll tell ya. ;)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Competition is a good thing. -^ So I'm wondering, "What could Smith Miro do that would worry DAZ?" Hmm.... Oh, I know! How about a 3rd generation figure line? Think, the Japanese Modelers (who brought us Miki, Koji, James, and Near Me) team up with Apollo's maker, Anton. I think that would give DAZ some heartburn. teehee -^ bB

Oh, so you like to see two groups pitted against each other in the life-and-death struggle while selling antacids. :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

There have been other movements in the 3D world, folks - like that Microsoft taking over Caligari and their Truespace 3D application. 

Let's see how this pans out for 3D software users.

Eternal Hobbyist

 

I'm not sure that what your talking about wouldn't be a monopoly.

ETA: My model here concerning Poser and Daz is analogous to this:

You have Poser which provides the specs for building the weaponry.  Daz is basically using the same specs to build their weaponry.  Ah, but Poser has a few secret weapons in their arsenal which they keep away from Daz spies.  Daz then decides to build their own weapons based loosely on Poser's via reverse engineering (quite literally, might I add).  But the problem is that Daz's weapons are still quite well understood by Poser since Poser provides the specs.

There are more complexities (Daz consuming Hexagon, Carrara, etc.) but the point is that unless Daz complete severes its dependence upon Poser specs, they will not be at liberty to divulge themselves completely of them.  Daz is a satellite of Poser that keeps battling for its freedom but cannot gain it while remaining dependent upon its resources.  Wakarimasu ka?

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Quote - I'm not sure that what your talking about wouldn't be a monopoly.

Considering the jaded past, a monopoly may be the remedy sought after in opposition to more splintering and growing insignifcance.  While Daz has stood firm, Poser has changed hands several times due to profit margins.  Not to go too far in analogy, what I see of the AmigaOS 4 is a marginal OS looking for a niche in a stuffed-to-the-gills market.  You don't want that. Now, the market isn't like this for Poser but it is becoming marginalized by more complex solutions provided by larger 3D providers.  Then you have all of the wannabees (Sims, iClone, et al) marching up the corridor without much resistance.  When assailed, does one not seek partnerships?

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Sims and iClone are not what I would consider art quality image producers. Maybe though Poser needs to consider making low poly packages and adding features like those programs in different program packages with the crz system. Same as Daz, but look at the copywrites surrounding SIMs and iClone content. I understand that you can make a texture for a SIM charater, but you can't sell it.

It isn't the actuality that destroys, it is the perception.  If enough people perceive that something is more useful than the other thing then the other thing fades away.  Let's face it.  At the time, the AmigaOS was the best OS available (there was no other 32-bit OS except for some complicated, Geekish Unixish OSs).  How did they falter when they had M$ and Apple by the balls?  They didn't change the perception of the potential users out there before the competition pounced.  Wars are won by strategy not by quality of weaponry (for the most part).

Poser keeps earning the reputation as a 'toy' and by that it will go the way of all toys.  As time marches on, the competition is winning the battles even if by subterfuge.  I don't question Poser's viability.  I question its ability to stand alone in the face of battle.  With its closest allie pitted against it (Daz), it doesnt' increase the odds.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

*Think, the Japanese Modelers (who brought us Miki, Koji, James, and Near Me) team up with Apollo's maker, Anton. I think that would give DAZ some heartburn. teehee -^

No problem,  other figure makers team up with DAZ and descend upon Smithmicro like the Knights Templars at Bannockburn.  ( and at a lot lower poly count. lol.)

Most of the time the things we worry about the most never happen. I think the biggest thing hobbyist worry about is Poser not building for them anymore and setting it's sights on the proffesional market where they can get more money per sale and sell less volume and probably deal with a lot fewer complaints. Somebody has to fill the hobby market though. All the software is getting cheaper all the time even the high end apps. The technology gets old and newest better comes along. What to do with yesterday or yesteryears programs then?

Really Poser is getting more and more technical. How long before a beginner is going to look someplace else for a program to start with because Poser is just too complicated?  

The Knights Templar were framed, I tell ya! :)

Complication isn't the issue.  It's all perception.  Those who use the pro software continue to piss on Poser (sorry, but that's an apt euphemism) while those who aspire to it keep finding inroads where Poser fails (games and distractions - a BIG market - did I say BIG enough).  Poser fills a niche that keeps dwindling.  The pros want self-made, self-rigged characters. The other end of the spectrum wants barbie dolls for easy user assembly and automation.  Poser can't straddle the middle ground forever.

Again, I'm not trying to be the antagonist here.  Poser is great for ready-made, highly flexible, quality content.  But it seems to be failing in drawing in the support deserved.  You'd think that with the increases in cpu speed, memory access, permanent storage that Poser would be flourishing more than expected.  So why the floundering sale of e-frontier to Smith Micro?  Yahoo had enough bollocks to say "Eh, no thanks" to M$ (wow).  That can only come from confidence and success.  One doesn't sell ones children unless abysmally desparate.

The technical advancements applied to Poser have been rather good.  How many other softwares have a material system as flexible as Poser (thanks to Pixels 3D)?  What is the problem?  Remember my statement about AmigaOS.  It isn't about reality here.  One just has to one-upsmanship your opponent in the right way at the crucial moment to destroy them.  M$ just chugged along and put out (crappy-old) Windows 95 to counter the trends.  They leveraged every under-handed technique to win over the users ("everyone uses MS-DOS/Windows", "we're better than our competition", "we have more hardware support", blah, blah).  Billy is a world-class salesman - he could sell your mother cow patties for $500 a piece. :D

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

dogor is right.

A friend of mine who decided she wanted to get into this hobby decided to pick up Daz Studio instead of Poser after I let her try both out on my system.  Where I've been using Poser for an embarrassing amount of years and have had the opportunity to learn many of it nuances, she did not have that luxory.

Daz Studio ended up being a lot easier for her to pick up and learn (but to me it's like learning Japanese!)

I like the variety of features in Poser.  I love that a hobbiest program is actually capable of so many complex things (dynamics, wind force, material nodes, etc), but I can see it being intimidating for a new user.

Alas, I agree with kuroyume0161.  I would like to see Daz and Poser as allies, I think as long as they work well with each other the community will be stronger.  If they ever go to completely incompatable formats, one of them will loose my business, obviously.  A company might feel confident in making such a move, thinking consumers might side with them, but in the end, do I stick with something that will progress, yet abandon my years of purchased content, or do I stick with that which is stagnant but honors my investment?

*...Dork Caine is the name and I served on the Poserville train
   'Til DAZ's cavalry came and tore up the tracks again
   In the winter of 'Poser 5, we were hungry, just barely alive
   By May the tenth, CP had fell, it's a time I remember oh so well

   The night they drove Old Poser down and the bells were ringing
   The night they drove Old Poser down and the people were singin', they went  
   La-la-la  la-la-la,  la-la-la  la-la-la,  la-la-la-la...

Sorry,  I'm being an antagonist.  Poser 5 should have been a rewrite of the code.

All kidding aside folks,  there are compatiblity issues between Daz Studio 1.8 and Poser 5 and above.  I don't like it.  I feel there should be crossplatform integration between the two.  Just like the high end apps have collada and fbx.  That being said I'm going to have to develope a Daz studio version and Poser 5 and above version of all my figures.  I can really see where this would discourage a lot of vendors.

Daz is more compatible than Poser. For one try to load a G2 figure into Daz Studio. You see more and more of Poser's origanal content only works in Poser. Daz figures on the other hand are made to work in both. Daz builds and thus supports Poser progress. When has Poser ever really supported Daz Studio? My observation anyways.

In my opinion they need to scrap the smoothing system in Poser and get more compatible with everything people are exporting right out of the high end apps. Improve the Setup Room. Improve the Material Room. I don't like splitting the verts.

Also when Daz wants me to locate a file the maker was nice enough to make it tell the directory it's in. Poser just says find this file. There is a lot of room for Poser improvement. Daz Studio is only at 1.8 or so and they can't help it Poser only wants their content to work in their platform.

Hi Dogor

I'm not a fanboy of any software.  I just like stiring the pot every now and then.  I do have a question about Daz Studio, though.  How do you turn on IK?

Cheers

Pat

The same way you turn it off. ;)

Not that I post here enough to contribute much to any tidal shifts, but I'm pretty close to making the jump from Poser to D|S.  Compatibility is the only thing holding me back.  If I could open a Poser scene in D|S and have it work properly more than 10% of the time I'd be using D|S more than Poser.

Quote - All kidding aside folks,  there are compatiblity issues between Daz Studio 1.8 and Poser 5 and above.  I don't like it.  I feel there should be crossplatform integration between the two.  Just like the high end apps have collada and fbx.  That being said I'm going to have to develope a Daz studio version and Poser 5 and above version of all my figures.  I can really see where this would discourage a lot of vendors.

That's one of my biggest issues right now. I've run into that incompatability just with making basic MOR poses for V4.1 already. They work fine in Poser. They do NOT work at ALL in Studio. I have to make an INJ/REM file rather than a simple MOR pose to distribute my morphs simply because Studio for one reason or another, will not apply the morphs in a MOR pose, and trying to get those INJ files made means saving THREE cr2's, and even then, if you have any morph dials turned already on the figure, it'll apply the INJ on TOP OF those dials.

Personally, I prefer Poser to DS. I've been using it since version 4, at any rate, and I just like it a LOT better than Studio.

At the same time, though, I don't think there is anything wrong with Studio, either. They are two different applications. They are not the same programme. Studio does exactly what it aims to do - it is a free 3D rendering programme, and allows people to get into the CG/3D art arenas and get a taste of doing the artwork without charging them a penny for the basic application.

They are two different animals, and everyone has their own preferences. You can't really say one is better than the other. Some people do better with and prefer Studio, other people do better with and prefer Poser.

I DO think the compatability issues are a problem. I DO think they ought to be more compatible than they are. I really DONT support Studio in the content I make for just that reason, and my recent attempts to do so has been bringing me one headache after another and I'm about THIS close to going back to saying 'these are for poser, if you have d/s don't ask me how to make them work!'

I think the community overall would be much better served by an alliance rather than the two companies (Daz and SmithMicro) working against each other and trying to outdo one another. I think the community would be far better served if there was more compatability between the two programmes.

But I'm also not holding my breath, either. shrugs Time will tell, it is pointless to get all worked up about the maybes, in my opinion. I wait, I watch, but if I am forced to choose between one or the other? Poser will keep my money. D/S will not. That's just me, though, and others will go the exact oppossite route..

Everyone has their own personal preferences, and they make their decisions on what to use and when and for how long based upon those preferences. For me, I don't like even ONE thing about Studio operates/functions/yada yada. I grew up in Poser so to speak, and it's what I know. IF I can make my content in such a way that it will work in both Poser and D/S? I will gladly do so. But I'm about fed up with jumping through a million hoops only to hit the brick wall on the other side in trying to do that, and I'm pretty close to simply going back to not supporting D/S at ALL any longer.

And I really think that in the long run? THAT is what will hurt the community. More than even SM and Daz battling it out... the incompatability of the programmes and files that causes such headaches for the vendors and content creators will harm things because a lot will eventually just say the heck with it, and produce for one or the other and in that kind of arrangement, one of the two camps is gonna be left without a fire burning, so to speak.

~ Seliah

I wonder if we could start a thread about these issues and find work arounds for them?

I haven't commented though I have been reading everyones thoughts.

Seliah, I couldn't agree more with the extra effort it takes to make your stuff happen in studio. It's a grind to make it happen in Poser. Carrara helps with that but realistically that's another app to make another app work. Where does it end? Are the companies helping end this, or are they actually widening the gulf?
I don't see a war really Kuroyume, but a stubborness that doesn't help matters. I agree with much you have to say too. Totally failing in the support it (Poser) deserves.

Here is my frustration:
I fully understand and accept that there is a great deal of work and time involved in making multiple apps work together. Zbrsuh to Poser takes some doing, but it isn't impossible. 3ds Max to Poser can happen, but you have to drive carefully.
But Poser to DAZ studio is silly. Poser to Carrara is good, but isn't Poser to Vue just the same thing, but more? Sure Carrara has modeling capabilities, but so what. There are plenty of resources available that can take care of the modeling end. Besides modeling is really out of the league of a lot of end-users. Sure some want to make something, but I would venture to say that most are not buying Carrara for modeling purposes. So what are they buying it for? DAZ figures? Maybe.
Anyways, Kuroyume already solved that problem for us with Cinema 3d some time ago.

Ultimately (by what I've seen and watched) the two companies don't see a need for a better facilitation between their two apps. Which ulimately will hurt one or the other, or both. I understand why major 3d artists look down on Poser (I'm not saying I agree, but I understand their point of view), but I personally see Poser as a stepping stone that really facilitates the whole creation process. Do 3d purist's think it's cheating? Sure they do. But my analogy would be, if I can paint better and faster (for a specific application) with a roller than a paint brush...am I cheating?
It takes a long time to rig a figure in Max, will Max have more control and abilities than Poser? You bet. But there are different niches for different markets (agree again Kuroyume).
I see, and am trying to create, so much more in this program...including and using the figures from DAZ. Am I cheating? Heck yeah! Or my manager would say, "I'm being more productive with my time." Snort. I'm being smart.
What isn't being smart is the two brothers (SM, DAZ) not playing nice with each other at the cost of end-users. No war, but not helping either. Who loses?

I won't stop doing my thing, and will continue to grow in the supported and available apps on the market that allow me to create the art that I feel.
I don't care that 3d geeks don't consider my tool as viable, I do care that the companies supporting my tool...don't get along and play well with each other, ultimately hurting the end-user.

rant over
soap box put away
slithers back to the dark dank hole from which it came

 

Comitted to excellence through art.

Hi JQP

I'm going with Daz.  SmithMicro wants a war then by golly they'll get one!

Cheers

Pat

As a user of both programs I realize that we have little to limited say so, but I'll add this for what it is worth anyways. Daz Studio is free and it runs Daz content without all the bells and whistles Poser has and Daz provides a nice bundle of content with it. It's a great marketing tool for Daz and like someone else said it opens a door for beginners to get their feet wet in 3D without spending a lot of money. Daz Studio and Poser have to go in their separate directions in my opinion simply because they are different programs and they have different features even. However successful Daz Studio becomes remains to be seen, but it's obvious to me it's gaining popularity and it's still in it's infancy. Daz has out marketed the owners of Poser because Daz makes content and they provided an application that will use it for free.

Poser on the other hand has entered into the content arena. They make money now off of both ends(selling Poser and 3rd party content along with their own) and could easily provide a platform for their content free of charge to the public same as Daz does. They provided Poser 5  free for a limited time, but if you want to be the master of both realms then provide a platform and pay for it with the content sales and club memberships. They have Poser 4 or they can just provide Poser 5 and maybe even redo Poser 5 so that it runs better or even give it a new look(strip it of all the bulk content for bandwidth's sake), but end result is keep up or get the heck out of the way.

The reason I like Daz Studio is that it reminds me of the automaton plugin for Lightwave.  BTW I wish Daz would come out with a plugin that would import Carrara rigging to Studio.

Now as for Poser,  why should people buy it.  Daz Studio is free.  How much is Quidam?  How much is Carrara Pro?

Pat, I would look into Zbrush before I looked into Quidam. If you know how to create morphs (which you do) then ZB is the bomb. Heck, you could do quite a lot with just V4 and M3 and ZB morphs...and convincingly.
Just my dos cervantos to your life.

Comitted to excellence through art.

I like the new plugin for Photo Shop that Daz is giving away for free also. I could make a list of the things I like about D/S and things I don't. Mostly being just lack of bell and whistle, but it's free.

People boast about Poser's bells and whistles and functionality, but you pay for it. I hope it's better, I really do.

2/19/08

Are camel hair brushes better than synthetic for producing a master piece? Do you prefer acrylic or oil paints? What is the better medium, cante, charcoal, pen and ink, or pencil? Which language is better for poetry, Italian, French, German, Japanese, or English? Where does the artist fit into that debate?

Michelangelo or DiVinci could do better with a chewed stick and mud than I could with the most expensive brushes and paints. What a way to distinguish oneself in this craft. I use D|S. I use Poser. I use Vue. I use Maya. My software preferences are the best in tools, compatibility, and/or price. What in all of this is supposed to impress me? All tools bring accommodation and compromise to the process of expression. Don't show me your brushes. Show me your art.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Personally, I prefer camel hair brushes and acrylic paints on Daler board.

For poetry, French reputedly has a word for everything; however, English has at least four words for everything, so...

At the moment, D|S can't do the things I need.  I'm sure it will eventually but at the moment I'll stick with Poser.  Getting a higher spec package and/or computer ain't an option for me right now, either, so that's out the window.

I'm used to Poser but I'm pretty sick of fighting with it most of the time.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

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The keyboard right now is my brush. I'm painting with B.S.

Like it?

You asked me to show it to you. :)

Really, you have a point. It's not just the tools.

Hi DarkEdge

ZBrush is top of the list as soon as I get my tax return. 

Hi Dogor

The Bridge!  You know that's what I like about Daz,  they're always looking to the future.  Now,  why didn't Poser develope something like the bridge when CS3 came out.  Personally,  until Poser decides to integrate with the rest of the CG community,  Poser 6 is the last for me.

Meh... I use 'em both... still. D|S more than Poser, though. I can tell you this: It's a lot easier to get stuff done in D|S (...and not just becuase I know the guts of D|S, either). I keep Poser around because I only have C5 Pro (second-hand, and C6 is coming... as soon as the IRS deigns to cut me some refund dough). I also keep Poser around because sometimes there are a couple of tricks I know for building characters that I can only do in Poser. OTOH, newbies don't know those little bit (e.g. the hierarchy editor), and from their POV, D|S is hella easier to use (just in my opinion). As for which will reign supreme? My answer is (for now) Neither. Poser still has a lot of folks in the pro community who reach downwards to them (whereas DAZ has to do all of its reaching upwards). The pro community knows the Poser brand name (trust me, they certainly don't piss on Poser when the deadlines are tight and resources are short...). Meanwhile, D|S is still getting its name out there. That said, IMHO D|S + Carrara is vastly superior, judging on what I've seen them capable of doing seperately. Once I get C6, I think I can ditch Poser entirely, using Carrara to do what Poser does now. /P

Hi Penguinisto

I agree.  That's why I'm stopping with Poser 6.

2/19/08

Many of us who use Poser are hobbyists, or at least not professionals. I for one do not have a deep pocket of money, and no time or real need to learn how to use a dozen software packages. To extend a metaphor I have previously used, those of us who are highly invested in Poser have painted ourselves into a corner. We cannot just go out and buy a few other very expensive programs, so, we might as well learn to use the one we already have as well as possible. Hence, we have a POSER FORUM to help us do so.

I have installed every version of D|S that has come out since I first became interested in CG, and I have uninstalled the software in one or two days. While many novices may find D|S easier to use, I (as a novice) do not. Poser was by far easier for me to learn, and deal with. I like Poser (7), I have Poser, and I use Poser. I will probably buy Poser X, when it comes out. I am really not too obstinate to consider other possibilities. I have considered them, and Poser is the best program for me to use to do what I want to do.

And, D|S is not free. The base program may be, and a few plug-ins, but it is every bit as expensive as Poser if you want or need all of the available plug-ins. If one wants D|S to do nearly what Poser 7 can do one will need every plug-in, or several other programs. DAZ’s business model is free or cheap base software (figures, etc.) and expensive or numerous add-ons. It is a different business model, but not a better one.

D|S and Poser are mutually incompatible. One may not be very well able to use Poser base figures or G2 figures in D|S, but DAZ figures all have known idiosyncratic problems with Poser. Problems that have been known for years and never get fixed.

D|S is extendable through plug-ins, and I believe the SDK is free? So, why doesn’t an enterprising software programmer build a D|S bridge to and from Poser, and then each community can contribute more than just comments to the other community. Unless D|S is simply not that flexible, this should be easier than making plug-ins for Poser to send data to high-end applications.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Okay, suppose Daz figures have idiosyncratic problems in Poser(specify the version). Are the G2 figures 100% compatible with Poser 4 or 5? That's home built stuff.

We haven't seen the changes in Poser X yet.

2/19/07

*"Okay, suppose Daz figures have idiosyncratic problems in Poser(specify the version)."

Poser 4, 5, 6, and 7.

"Are the G2 figures 100% compatible with Poser 4 or 5?"

????? Who would expect that? I cannot open files saved in the latest version of MS Word format with my old Word 97. Does any one expect DAZ to produce only figures and plug-ins in 2008 that will work in the oldest releases of D|S? In fact V 4.2 requires an update to work in D|S ("That's home built stuff"). This seems to be a non-issue to me. If one wants to open Poser 7 specific content, buy Poser 7. And that is part of my point.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Quote - The Bridge!  You know that's what I like about Daz,  they're always looking to the future.  Now,  why didn't Poser develope something like the bridge when CS3 came out.  Personally,  until Poser decides to integrate with the rest of the CG community,  Poser 6 is the last for me.

So if Poser intigrates with CS3, Cinema 4d, Maya, or Max then you'll buy Poser 7?

My Homepage - Free stuff and Galleries

Yep!  All it has to do is be able to import and export in fbx or collada format.

Here's the thing though lkenndal. Yes, Daz updated D/S to handle V4.2. How much did you pay for that? For that matter how did you pay for the V4.2 update for Daz Studio or Poser?

As far as the supposed "idiosyncratic" problems. I would like you to explain the way you are using the term. All character/figures or models have mannerism or habit inside a program. So what. Daz characters worked to my satisfaction in most of those versions even when they were fundamentally different in the way they worked and behaved(BUGS and all). By the way they still sell most of them and never update them to use newer content either. 

It doesn't bother me you want to stick with Poser, but it seems people make up and imagine reasons for Daz supporting Poser because deep down they know if Daz doesn't support Poser then Poser is probably screwed. Idiosyncratic really.

I guess my only put off with Carrara would be that I get to learn how to rig from scratch in a new program...me brain/hard drive is getting a little full up here. lol.

 

Comitted to excellence through art.

Quote - 2/19/08

Many of us who use Poser are hobbyists, or at least not professionals. I for one do not have a deep pocket of money, and no time or real need to learn how to use a dozen software packages.

IMHO, many more who use Poser are pros. I'm very willing to wager that nearly all of those who crack a snide remark in Poser's direction are either pros who use it in a pinch, or wannabes who like to pretend they're pros. > Quote - I have installed every version of D|S that has come out since I first became interested in CG, and I have uninstalled the software in one or two days. While many novices may find D|S easier to use, I (as a novice) do not.

Of course not - you're too used to the way it's always been done in Poser. No shame in saying so...

I could list a lot of reasons why I think D|S is easier to grok for the newbie (starting with multiple Runtime handling), but instead let me boil it down to the UI... it's laid out in a more intelligent fashion that Kai Krause's effort, and it doesn't require my setting aside a ton of desktop real estate just to get a good-sized viewport area. The tools are laid out in a shallow manner (meaning I don't have to go digging for them all). Many of the functions that require separate actions in Poser (e.g. IK removal, selecting base figure body parts, morph dial limits, or the act of conforming one figure to another) are automatic. Selecting an item in a scene, making it visible or invisible, or even parenting it only requires eyeballing one easy-to-read Scene Tab.

This is not to knock Poser at large... it was after all an experiment in User Interfaces. BUT... each and every Poser user in this joint (myself included) must admit in all honesty that their initial look at Poser was more than just a little opaque, to say the least.
  > Quote - And, D|S is not free. The base program may be, and a few plug-ins, but it is every bit as expensive as Poser if you want or need all of the available plug-ins.

Sorta... depends on what you want to do with it.

For the basic "hey, what's this three-dee thing all about"? newbie, it's completely free. Costs $0.00 to load a figure, compose it, add props and lighting, then render it. Now if you're already someone who has used Poser for eons, and you want dynamic this-or-that, and you want HDRI/AOL/IBL, okay... go buy Carrara 6 Pro. It'll cost about as much as Poser Pro, and it'll give you a far more comprehensive set of tools to boot (including modeling, and I don't mean Hexagon).

For the in-between folks? Meh - ye picks yer poison: Add plugins, or go whole hog. Overall you end up with a better value.

Quote - D|S and Poser are mutually incompatible. One may not be very well able to use Poser base figures or G2 figures in D|S, but DAZ figures all have known idiosyncratic problems with Poser. Problems that have been known for years and never get fixed.

I could just as easily turn it around and say that if the default Poser figures were even halfway comparable (and weren't warmed-over Zygote figs)...  I know eF/CP could churn out some decent figures fer cryin' out loud... Terai Yuki is living proof of that. But seriously - the default stuff kinda blows chunks in the flexibility department. Otherwise, why would anyone bother with Vicky/Aiko/yaddayaddayadda... ?

But, in either case the arguments don't wash as absolutes. After all, why should DAZ bother to try and make a figure 100000% compatible with a hideous and crufty codebase like Poser? Why should SM bother with R&D into default figures that basically come free with the package? > Quote - D|S is extendable through plug-ins, and I believe the SDK is free? So, why doesn’t an enterprising software programmer build a D|S bridge to and from Poser, and then each community can contribute more than just comments to the other community.

You mean things like the Poser Format Exporter (which is a freebie item @ DAZ)? Or perhaps the extensive Poser format importing capabilities that is already built-in to D|S?

Problem is, that flexibility has to go both ways to accomplish what you're proposing, and I don't much feel like paying $20k+ just for a copy of the Poser SDK, you know?

(I already know what the Poser answer will be: "use Python". That said, sometimes not every problem is a nail, but in this analogy Python is only a hammer).

/P
 

When I first loaded Plain Jane Low Poly into Daz Studio I was sold.  I have a few issues to work out  with powerpose but that's about it.

What is Keystroke Spy for? It seems to be with a bunch of Daz stuff and Spyware Doctor says the infection is Elevated. It's also attached to a Poser 7 e frontier .ink.

They were talking about something like that over at the Daz forums,too.

Keystroke Spy does not sound good my friend.

I have no idea what the heck it is or used for...but logging keystrokes sounds very funky.

Side topic...peps are actually (during christmas time shopping) sitting in their cars with cell phones are are able to hear/access folks using the number pads on their car door locks (instead of a key).

Comitted to excellence through art.

No it doesn't sound good at all. As far as information goes, why would Daz need it. They have it per say, but I just finished a full scan and found it with Mimic and a whole bunch of Daz files. Maybe their download server was infected or maybe it's just something Daz put there. That's why I'm asking folks.

Can you get a traceroute on it?  To see where it originated from?

Where exactly does it show up for you guys? I just ran couple spyware scans on my computer, and no keystroke spy.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I ran Cramden and it found this on the motherboard.

How would I go about that? I have a list of all the directories it's in.

See for yourself.

See for yourself.

Nice render Pat, where's the CPU heat sink?
Oops, now I guess I'm getting nasty.
 

I had a vendor, whom I trust, who had me run a python script on my system that would record stuff so he could see a reason for his products failure. Now if it were anybody else I would have told them to get lost. But there is something not right if somebody puts that kind of spying in their software without letting you know. Are they using it for deviant activities? I doubt it. But goofy individuals with nothing better to do can hack these things...and they might have deviant motives.

Comitted to excellence through art.

Who put it there? I reloaded Poser 5 on an external hard drive(to get the runtime mainly) here a few weeks ago. This is the first time I've gotten these results and I've run many many scans on this computer. Of course Spyware Doctor does updates almost constantly.

Quote - Who put it there? I reloaded Poser 5 on an external hard drive(to get the runtime mainly) here a few weeks ago. This is the first time I've gotten these results and I've run many many scans on this computer. Of course Spyware Doctor does updates almost constantly.

Those are all shortcuts to various uninstallers, so the file size should be tiny (less than 1Kb).

If your really worried, contact the scanner vendor and get them to find out why it's giving you a warning for these.

I'm not shaking in my boots. I was curious to see if anyone else had picked up the same thing.  If it was common .

Quote - I'm not shaking in my boots. I was curious to see if anyone else had picked up the same thing.

Because of the methods used by detection software, false positives do occur.
As these are shortcuts, you can delete them without ill effect and if you ever need to run the uninstallers that they point to, you can run them directly from the directory they're in.

Heat sink!?! Look what it's doing to Poser!

I have both D|S and Poser on my system.  Carrara and Vue, too.  I don't plan to delete any of them off of my hard drive.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I deleted the supposed key loggers.

Quote - I could list a lot of reasons why I think D|S is easier to grok for the newbie (starting with multiple Runtime handling), but instead let me boil it down to the UI... it's laid out in a more intelligent fashion that Kai Krause's effort, and it doesn't require my setting aside a ton of desktop real estate just to get a good-sized viewport area. The tools are laid out in a shallow manner (meaning I don't have to go digging for them all). Many of the functions that require separate actions in Poser (e.g. IK removal, selecting base figure body parts, morph dial limits, or the act of conforming one figure to another) are automatic. Selecting an item in a scene, making it visible or invisible, or even parenting it only requires eyeballing one easy-to-read Scene Tab.

This is not to knock Poser at large... it was after all an experiment in User Interfaces. BUT... each and every Poser user in this joint (myself included) must admit in all honesty that their initial look at Poser was more than just a little opaque, to say the least.

Ya know... I am a diehard Poser user myself. I've been using it since version 4 (prior to the update), and I am currently in here at Poser7. That said... I actually DO agree with a lot of what you've said. I DO agree that in many ways D/S is easier to grasp for the beginners who are getting their feet wet in the 3D area. I do agree that some of the functions (such as IK/parenting/etc) are much better thought out and impleneted in D/S.

However...........................................

The interface. The UI. That is EXACTLY what turned me OFF of D/S, to be blunt flaming honest here. I can't STAND the ui. It makes my head spin, it ticks me off, and it drives me absolutely BONKERS. I hate it. I despise it. I can NOT get used to the user interface of D/S, I have NEVER liked it, and I simply most likely never will. For me, the UI is a MAJOR deciding factour on what programme I am going to go with. I've got D/S 1.8 on here. I've had all the previous versions on here as well. I've tried them. I've deleted them within a matter of days every time because for ME, the user interface alone is confusing, infuriating, frustrating, NOT explanatory, and leaves me sitting here wanting to pick up my computer and throw it out a window.

So... yeah. Even the UI is not neccessarily a 'newbie' thing. Granted I'm not a newbie, but nor am I pro. I'm a middle ground hobbyist who mainly uses it to illustrate her own work and occassionally gets a stroke of luck and cracks out a freebie here and there for folks to play with. But until such time as I can open up DazStudio and spend more than 2 minutes inside of it without my blood pressure skyrocketing because of how cumbersome and ugly and confusing and sheer FRUSTRATING the interface is (for me!!!!!!)...... I'm very, very, VERY NOT likely to EVER use it as my main rendering programme.

Does D/S do what it adverrtises to do? Yes! Definitely.
Does it have things done in there better than Poser? Yup! There are definitely things D/S does and handles way better than Poser.

But it's completely unusable by me because of that user interface design. There really are no words for how strongly I detest the UI... thus... I have stuck with Poser, and I likely always will because by version 1.8, they've decided what their UI is going to be and they are not likely to ever change that. Which means I won't use it because that UI is 99% of the turnoff for me to D/S.

All that said. laughs

I do honestly LIKE D/S for what it's capable of doing, how it's worked, how it's coded, and how it allows people to get the base programme and such and start playing around in 3D. But I just don't think it's for everyone. Just as I don't think Poser is for everyone.

What it boils down to for me, in my view, is that Poser and D/S are like choosing to use a PC or a Mac. Or choosing to use Windows or Linux. It's PERSONAL preference. Some will like one and not the other, others may be the exact oppossite. You CANNOT compare them, because they are not by any means the same product, and attempting to do so is doing a disservice to BOTH products, in my opinion. Compare D/S on the grounds of it being a CG artwork and rendering programme. By all means!! But don't compare it to Poser, or compare Poser to D/S. That's apples and oranges folks, and every discussion I've ever seen of this nature invariably seems to turn into a Poser vs. D/S topic and it really... makes very little sense.

Naturally, D/S users will support D/S. Naturally, Poser users will support Poser. If they didn't, then they're using the wrong programme!! Naturally, people will support that which THEY like and find the most use out of.

For me, that's Poser. For others, it might be D/S. Personal preference, personal opinions. That's why we have the ability to make the choice in which to use. :) I don't give a flying hoot about the advertising, the marketing, yada yada yada. I don't care. I really don't. Your adverts and marketing has ZERO to do with whether or not I stick with one programme or use another to accomplish what I wish to do. What makes that decision for me is functionality, user interface, and performance. For me, Poser wins that contest.

Personally? I try to support BOTH programmes. Why? Because I feel they are both valid 3D/CG tools, and deserving of that support. I try very hard to make my freebies compatible with both Poser and D/S. I'm in the middle right now of making a completely separate packaging of Caris specifically so that the D/S users can actually use my V4 morphs. I shouldn't HAVE to. I SHOULD be able to release one file and expect it to work in both Poser and D/S, but yet that is not the case. So I am sitting here reinventing the wheel to make my morphs function inside of D/S, because I don't want to leave the D/S users out in the cold, either.

They're both good programmes. They both do function well as their designers intended. They both have problems. They both have supporters and non-supporters. People are individual and not cut from the same mold anymore than these two programmes are, and will make their own decision. I just wish it was less 'poser sucks, d/s rocks' and 'd/s sucks, poser rules' and more an attempt to try and work with the playing field that's laid out before us. That's all.

/rant off
/soapbox away

slinks back off to her dark corner
~ Seliah

Quote - What it boils down to for me, in my view, is that Poser and D/S are like choosing to use a PC or a Mac. Or choosing to use Windows or Linux. It's PERSONAL preference. Some will like one and not the other, others may be the exact oppossite.

Exactly. > Quote - Compare D/S on the grounds of it being a CG artwork and rendering programme. By all means!! But don't compare it to Poser, or compare Poser to D/S.

Correct - it's better to compare D|S + Carrara vs. Poser if you want a more even comparison. That said, they do compete - there is no escaping that. -- Personally, Poser is in no danger from users leaving it. It's biggest threat is two-fold: 1) that it changes ownership almost every two years (MetaCreations -> Curious Labs -> CL/EGISys -> eFrontier -> Smith Micro )... it stands a good long-term chance of being orphaned that way. 2) that it needs a complete re-write of its codebase to keep it from bogging down as each new version is issued. To be fair, D|S also has some dangers, albeit not as severe: 1) SDK uptake is slow - most prefer to script rather than code. 2) it has become less of a stand-alone program and more of a path to Carrara. 3) There are some features (e.g. IBL) that it could certainly stand to have, but doesn't. /P

IMVHO, because Poser is a hobbyist application, it will never make a lot of money for its owners. If we were professional graphic artists, we would all be on Poser 7 because (a) the company would pay for it, and (b) earlier versions would no longer be supported. As it is, there are a lot of people who, for various reasons, still use Poser 6, 5 and even 4. I wonder how many regular Poser users upgraded to 7?

e-Frontier made no money from existing Poser users who didn't buy Poser 6 from them or upgrade to 7. Likewise, Smith-Micro will make no money from existing Poser users until a new version comes out. (I doubt that CP makes a lot of money.)

Mike

D/S is the gate for poser content into Bryce.

Carrara takes runtimes now so really it can function on it's own without Daz Studio. Carrara 6 imports Daz scene files and Poser pz3's now. Really you could say that Carrara is stand alone because it can do it all by itself.

The reason some still use Poser 4 is because there are still people out there that own and run a Windows 98 computer. Or simply they like it and don't feel the need to purchase an upgrade. Could be why they still use Windows 98. Part of it is that everyone cannot own nice powerful computers.

Quote - D/S is the gate for poser content into Bryce.

Carrara takes runtimes now so really it can function on it's own without Daz Studio. Carrara 6 imports Daz scene files and Poser pz3's now. Really you could say that Carrara is stand alone because it can do it all by itself.

How do you apply Poser materials in DAZ and Carrara? I'm not talking about fancy nodes or anything, just Poser files that apply a image map.

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Quote - IMVHO, because Poser is a hobbyist application, it will never make a lot of money for its owners. If we were professional graphic artists, we would all be on Poser 7 because (a) the company would pay for it, and (b) earlier versions would no longer be supported.

Actually, if I were a pro gfx artist, I'd be using (mainly) Modo/Maya/Shake/etc... and for the exact same reasons you state. And it'd be on an eight-core Mac Pro w/ a huge color-calibrated monitor (the gfx artists here @ work use 'em).

I mean, if the boss is writing the checks, I can damned sure justify the higher-end gear.

Quote - e-Frontier made no money from existing Poser users who didn't buy Poser 6 from them or upgrade to 7. Likewise, Smith-Micro will make no money from existing Poser users until a new version comes out. (I doubt that CP makes a lot of money.)

I suspect that CP does okay, income-wise. Otherwise I agree.

/P

Quote - D/S is the gate for poser content into Bryce.

Carrara takes runtimes now so really it can function on it's own without Daz Studio. Carrara 6 imports Daz scene files and Poser pz3's now. Really you could say that Carrara is stand alone because it can do it all by itself.

It can, but D|S -> Carrara is apparently a whole lot smoother (due to Materials and etc).

Bryce's fate I'm not really sure about, though...

/P

CP hasn't shown me their books yet -- so I have no clue as to what their profit margins might be.  EF never showed me their books, either.  SM seems to be doing OK, though.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Hi Dogor

I hope your computer is back up to snuff. 

Hi Everyone

As for the Daz Studio vs Poser,  I received an e mail this morning.  In it the individual asked " Who the **** do you think you are"  and after about a paragraph or so stated "  I didn't belong here and that I should leave."  Mind you it wasn't site specific nor about the Studio vs Poser issue,  it was about the community in general.  So,  that being said,  I'm leaving.  I wish everyone good luck and good renders.  If anyone would like to stay in touch or beta test the Plain Folk figures my email address is patorak3d@yahoo.com 

Please don't let this issue between Studio and Poser turn into a war like the Maya vs Max war.  that one was really ugly.  See, when It comes down to it art is an expression of emotion.  The only tool you really need is a soul.

Pat

Quote - Hi Dogor

I hope your computer is back up to snuff. 

Hi Everyone

As for the Daz Studio vs Poser,  I received an e mail this morning.  In it the individual asked " Who the **** do you think you are"  and after about a paragraph or so stated "  I didn't belong here and that I should leave."  Mind you it wasn't site specific nor about the Studio vs Poser issue,  it was about the community in general.  So,  that being said,  I'm leaving.  I wish everyone good luck and good renders.  If anyone would like to stay in touch or beta test the Plain Folk figures my email address is patorak3d@yahoo.com 

Please don't let this issue between Studio and Poser turn into a war like the Maya vs Max war.  that one was really ugly.  See, when It comes down to it art is an expression of emotion.  The only tool you really need is a soul.

Pat

What in the world........?!!!!

Pat, please don't allow one jerk with a hotmail account (assuming that they use hotmail) to drive you away.  You are an asset to this community, and you most definitely belong here.  Whether you happen to favor Poser or D|S is incidental.

Plus there's the fact that you're a nice guy -- why would someone have taken out after you that way?  Odd.  Very odd.  I'd be interested in knowing who did this -- but I assume that the e-mail was anonymous, as such e-mails generally are.

Please stick around, my friend.  The water's warm -- or hot. 

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I hope you stick around patorak. We have these debates from time to time. It's kind of a potato vs potato matching contest and (to me anyways) a lot of interesting facts and ideas and even personal opinions and observations come out of it.

My computer is up to snuff. I'm not sure it ever wasn't. Spyware programs are constantly updated and sometimes they flag things and make us aware of "possible" dangers. Not really a positive "eminent" danger. I just deleted the files as any uninstall files aren't important to me anyways. 

Quote -
As for the Daz Studio vs Poser,  I received an e mail this morning.  In it the individual asked " Who the **** do you think you are"  and after about a paragraph or so stated "  I didn't belong here and that I should leave."  Mind you it wasn't site specific nor about the Studio vs Poser issue,  it was about the community in general.  So,  that being said,  I'm leaving. 

Meh - I usually respond to those with a reply that would make a mule driver shiver in his sleep. But then again, I'm evil like that.

Non Illegitimi Carborundum Est, 'mano. The day some non-PTB jackass gets any power to decide who should and should not leave a given forum, is the day I'd write that forum off as lost and dead...

/P

Yeah Pat, I wish you would stay around too. You're a good guy and an asset.

A war? No, just good conversation. I don't think anyone has gone balistic.

 

 

Comitted to excellence through art.

Quote - As for the Daz Studio vs Poser,  I received an e mail this morning.  In it the individual asked " Who the **** do you think you are"  and after about a paragraph or so stated "  I didn't belong here and that I should leave."  Mind you it wasn't site specific nor about the Studio vs Poser issue,  it was about the community in general.  So,  that being said,  I'm leaving.  I wish everyone good luck and good renders. 

Pat

You know, I swore I was done posting in here since I'd made my statements and didn't feel like I had anything more to add to the conversation.. but...

Duuuuuuuuuude. Stop for a second. Think. Consider the source of said email. One lonely nutjob should not be enough to chase ANYONE off from something like this. Seriously. Just consider the source... sheeeeeeeeeeesh, they ought to be glad they didn't send that email at me. I tend to fire right back with double barrels when someone sends off a nasty mail like that. Or else I just let it go ignored and not give them the satisfaction of thinking they got under my skin.

That kind of act is immature and is HARDLY representative of the entirety of the folks who post here and read here. I don't know you at all, but from what little I've seen of you in this thread, I see absolutely NO reason that you ought to just take your toys and go home just because one schoolyard bully is having a temper tantrum. That makes no sense to me. LOL

~ Seliah

2/20/08

Pat:

There is a life outside of Poser, Daz Studio, Carrara, and other graphics programs. It sounds like some one needs to reintegrate with reality, but not you. There are always a few self appointed forum moderators who want to impose their values on others. It must have been disturbing to get private EMail as you did. I would think the perpetrator knew the people on this thread and forum would never sanction such behaviour in public. I hope you will not be intimidated. Clearly the people here value your input and opinions.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

I like Bryce 6. I think it's very useful and fairly simple to use. Now that I can use Daz Studio to put the Poser models into Bryce it made it that much more appealing. Different renderers have a different look to them. I like the look of Bryce renders.

Patorak, there is absolutely no need for you to go anywhere. Your thoughts, opinions, and choice of software is just as valid as anyone elses, so just keep your tailfeathers right here.

Also, this is a great discussion about the pros and cons of both software programs {and others}, I like discussions like this..very informative. ;)

Kudos to you all gang for keeping it this way! :thumbupboth:

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

I think the reason for shifts between Poser and DAZ|Studio has a lot to with increased familiarity with 3D applications.  When I started using Poser, there seemed to be a large learning curve in using the software's applications.  Now, people are coming into the community and picking up skills rather quickly.  I think a lot of this is due to the fact that the tools are much more advanced and the content is much more developed.  The relationship between the development of the software and the development and complexity of the supporting content is becoming more and more interlinked.

Over the past year, I've become a little disenfranchised with Poser.  Having Poser passed from one company to another makes future development rather questionable.  Poser is certainly superior to the others in terms of materials, but in terms of computer resources, I think there is significant room for improvement.

Further, I question the development of the "default" Poser figures.  With each new version of Poser, the figures have been renamed.  This practice doesn't necessarily establish a successful brand and maintain interest for the figures.  The G2 figures should have been combined into only 1 male and 1 female with more morphing options and better attention to the mesh.  The supporting content provided by Sixus1 and RuntimeDNA has been better than the actual figures.  In truth, I think Sixus1 and RuntimeDNA have given Poser more of a pulse that it's owner company.

Personally, I think a lot of DAZ's success is due to the fact they've established a stable brand.  The company has retained the same name.  Further, each subsequent generation of Michael and Victoria have become increasingly more developed.  Offering DAZ|Studio for free has been a great means of further advancing the development of the program.  I hope that eventually nosed-based materials are added - at that point, my usage of Poser might lessen even more.

Quote - nosed-based materials

Sorry. Made me chuckle.

sorry...node-based... that pesky "s" is too close to the "d" key

2/22/08

*"Quote - 'nosed-based materials' -Sorry. Made me chuckle."

Most of the nose based materials we get in the office during Flu season should not be reproduced in the material room, and you most certainly don't want to encounter them on your keyboard.

"sorry...node-based... that pesky 's' is too close to the 'd' key"

I know, sometimes my fangles get so tingered I can't stype traight.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Quote - Hi Dogor

I hope your computer is back up to snuff. 

Hi Everyone

As for the Daz Studio vs Poser,  I received an e mail this morning.  In it the individual asked " Who the **** do you think you are"  and after about a paragraph or so stated "  I didn't belong here and that I should leave."  Mind you it wasn't site specific nor about the Studio vs Poser issue,  it was about the community in general.  So,  that being said,  I'm leaving.  I wish everyone good luck and good renders.  If anyone would like to stay in touch or beta test the Plain Folk figures my email address is patorak3d@yahoo.com 

Please don't let this issue between Studio and Poser turn into a war like the Maya vs Max war.  that one was really ugly.  See, when It comes down to it art is an expression of emotion.  The only tool you really need is a soul.

Pat

WTF!
Whomever is the creep that sent that kind of a message is the one that doesn't belong in here!!!
Don't you dare leave us, you're part of 'us' here!!!!!

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
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Don't let this turn into a war, or George Bush will want to check ALL the forums for weapons of mass destruction, LOL!

Quote - > Quote - nosed-based materials

Sorry. Made me chuckle.

Gee and I thought nosed based materials was something that came standard in all poser characters so the inside of their noses glowed after rendered in Poser with stock lights and cameras vs D/S. Sort of like a Poser feature of some kind or another.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - nosed-based materials

Sorry. Made me chuckle.

Gee and I thought nosed based materials was something that came standard in all poser characters so the inside of their noses glowed after rendered in Poser with stock lights and cameras vs D/S. Sort of like a Poser feature of some kind or another.

Radioactive brains......that's what makes their nostrils glow.

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Well, I woke up this morning with my face in one of my cats' fur coats. He was sleeping on my head. I definately had nose-based materials after breathing fur all night, LOL!