Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Quote -
There is currently no way that I can see so far to create your own chat room on the fly but I've asked Steve Skondris about it so I'll let you know when he's answered. It would really come in handy if we are working together on a new project. Yourself, Randy, Richard and who ever else is part of the team would all be able to chat and not be disturbed. Exchange ideas and even post quick shots of what's happening. Their chat software is pretty stable at this point so fingers crossed that this can happen.

HUGZ

In your MyZone page you can click to create your own forum. You can choose to make it available to all members or only your friends.

Yea, I saw that but chat would be more in real time, which is what I think most folks doing projects together would like!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

AIM or Yahoo both have chat like conferencing. I think between those two, we should be covered!

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

*"Do the products on the Artzone Marketplace have to be exclusive to Artzone and DAZ?"
*Ask Guarie at pros - all the info is in the vendor forum there but the thread says...

Please remember the information contained in the Merchant forum is confidential and cannot be discussed outside of the forum itself.

...and we have to respect that..

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

Well, that makes a lot of sense???

How is a merchant supposed to know if he wants to sell his stuff there if he is not allowed to know if it will be exclusive or not?

Really odd that information such as if a product must be exclsuive or not is a secret that must be guarded....

Your specialist military, sci-fi, historical and real world site.

PPros announced their impending demise well over a month ago (IIRC) at the site...

I like the fact that the store doesn't have to die off - they've always had decent stuff at decent prices.

/P

I agree. So they have a new home. I'm excited about it. It's not dying, it's changing and you know, sometimes change is good. I know folks say "if it aint' broke don't try and fix it" but it's DAZ's baby and their business model may not agree with everyone but they are still going strong so they are doing something right!!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

I never was crazy on Artzone, but it seems that this site has totaly changed. The poor forums are cancled and now you have a link to the regular DAZ Community. The new wesite is an eyecandy now and I can change into my DAZ account with one click. I like this new concept now. I´ll see how it is going on.

Are you required to be a member of the Artzone to purchase from the Artzone store?

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

2/29/08

Not much of what I would want is on sell at PoserPros, but, even as I am typing, the number of things on sell is increasing. :)

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Quote - Do the products on the Artzone Marketplace have to be exclusive to Artzone and DAZ?

Unconfirmed word behind the scenes is artists have to give them first exclusive right to accept or reject anything they make, though this may be mistaken.

The closing announcement thread does say **many **items are not being moved over. And some are saying people are starting to suspect that is this is a vast understatement, though this may not be the case. Some people are going here, RDNA, and CP or just moving some of thier content.

There is a thread about who is retiring, who is going where, etc.
http://poserpros.daz3d.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=63592

On the surface, the whole switch over seems pretty sweet, but there is definately some anxiety for many behind the scenes, who fear things aren't going to end up quite they way it was presented, though hopefully this won't be the case.

I think there are some wonderful people and items at Poserpros that are worth having at any price. But I don't think people should assume certain items or people are just going to be accepted into the ArtZone Marketplace. If people want something, they should buy it now in my opinion and not risk waiting.

Personally, and my own opinion of course:

Artzone died and this is part of a multi-step plan to revive it, and replace the need for Renderosity's style of Marketplace community site. Innovation through emulation. Poser sites used to be refered to as "Daz Colonies", because they all led the customer back to Daz. I think they are getting ready to outgrow the need for "Colonies".
If things start out as promised, they will not stay that way down the road for those involved. Just my opinion of course.

3) If this new "marketplace" does not end up simply being a beta test for the core Daz store with additions, it could end up a bad store experiment at the expense of the PoserPros merchant base. However, so long as people are free to change their minds later, there is nothing wrong with testing it out.

Read the Terms of Service. If you are a merchant here, at RDNA, CP, or anywhere but Daz, I don't know that it would be a good idea ArtZone, in my opinion.
*By accessing or using the services of this Site, downloading Materials or merely browsing the Site, you agree ..."

*"...While DAZ 3D does not censor or read private site mail, in the event that DAZ 3D has reason to believe that such communication could be harmful to DAZ 3D, DAZ 3D reserves the right to read, and delete such harmful messages from the Site."

*Look, not to sound doom & gloom; and I have always been for the merchant over the interests of stores, but if something is in writing, it is there for a reason.

I think merchant's need more options and freedoms. Wherever they go and sell, I personally hope it goes well for them. But I just hope go in with their eyes wide open, realistically, and without rose-tinted glasses. Anything not in a legal document will likely not last with no guarentees even then.

Many people get starry eyes at the idea of finally getting into the Daz door. It can seem very promising and hopeful. And it very may well be for some. I just think it more likely many are going to get the exit instead. But this may be great for growing other sites.

Diane's site has great traffic. Many have studied 'rotica's traffic for years. There are great opportunities for many there I think.

At RDNA, 50% or more of all my sales were through CP in the end, so perhaps CP is a good choice for those wanting a more independant enviornment.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

At first I thought, the reviving of artzone aimed at concurring with DeviantArt. But now, after the shop has appeared it seems clear that artzone's main purpose was to concentrate more merchandise under the reign of DAZ. Or to say in other words, to make more money. Nothing wrong with that, but like Anton said, there may be some snags. And I still don't get, why DAZ creates a whole new playground just to sell more different items.

I'm not a vendor, so I will only have to decide, if I use the site or not. At the current state, I don't like it very much. I registered, when it first came out and deleted my account soon after, because the place looked like yahoo groups and/or a dating site. Now I've registered again and the whole site still looks like yahoo groups and not very safe to me. At the moment, I don't know, why I should frequent it.

About the TOS: at DAZ was a discussion about pretty ridiculous gallery terms. It was like, if you post an image at artzone they will own your soul or a pound of your flesh. ;) Don't know if they changed these terms by now.

3/1/08

SmithMicro.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

I really despise the blatant banner adds dead center in the page, in many parts of the site. At least have the class to put the crap on the side of the content, it's obvious the whole site is just an extension of their shop (and nothing wrong with that) but no need to rub the user's nose in it. Also don't like the gallery "highest ranked images" that are just advertisements for their market products.

Attached Link: ARTZone Marketplace thread

Perhaps voice your opinions and suggestions at the main thread in the Commons at DAZ?

Steve Skondris is partially in charge of this project and what he's not in charge of lets those know behind the scenes what folks are wanting.

I wanted personal, private chat rooms for those of us wanting to work on a project in real time together when possible, that's going to be implemented "soon". LOL They are listening and will do it if it's something enough folks want.

In any case if you have concerns or complaints or what ever it's better to voice it in the appropriate forum thread, not here so you are stewing in all your self made aggravation. This is not aimed at any one person. If you are a "I don't do the DAZ forums for X Y or Z reason then I guess you will go on complaining or hypothesizing of what you think this is all about! :lol:

Thread link above....

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Well, sometimes people diskuss open and free, or ramble around, or chat, or talk or whatever ... and they do so where they like to. "stewing in all your self made aggravation" sound very bitter to me.

Quote - I agree. So they have a new home. I'm excited about it. It's not dying, it's changing and you know, sometimes change is good. I know folks say "if it aint' broke don't try and fix it" but it's DAZ's baby and their business model may not agree with everyone but they are still going strong so they are doing something right!!

True, but it lasted 3 years longer than I thought it would, and I was the one who managed to talk DAZ into buying the thing.

--

Quote - The closing announcement thread does say **many **items are not being moved over. And some are saying people are starting to suspect that is this is a vast understatement, though this may not be the case. Some people are going here, RDNA, and CP or just moving some of thier content.

True.

IMHO, I have no kick against upping quality standards a touch, which is what I think is happening in this case.

Quote - 1) Artzone died and this is part of a multi-step plan to revive it, and replace the need for Renderosity's style of Marketplace community site.

You forget - DAZ' fora are now just as busy as --if not more busy than-- Renderosity's. They already have a large and active community.

I don't see Artzone as dead per se, but as a not-so-great idea to emulate MySpace, Facebook, and/or DeviantArt. The fora will continue on just fine regardless.

Quote - If things start out as promised, they will not stay that way down the road for those involved. Just my opinion of course.

DAZ didn't have to bail out PP in 2005. There was literally no business case to justify it save for preserving diversity within Poserdom. They kept it going for 3 yrs. In spite of their own principles, they kept the Chicken Coop as it was, without modification. They kept the place completely free of the censorship and attitude-control that was and is present in the DAZ fora and in Rendo.

Quote - *By accessing or using the services of this Site, downloading Materials or merely browsing the Site, you agree ..."

*"...While DAZ 3D does not censor or read private site mail, in the event that DAZ 3D has reason to believe that such communication could be harmful to DAZ 3D, DAZ 3D reserves the right to read, and delete such harmful messages from the Site."

Renderosity does this right now; they simply don't say anything up-front. Should Merchants now leave Renderosity?

Quote - I think merchant's need more options and freedoms.

Agreed - and they have perfect freedom and a universe of options right now. The very nature of the Internet allows them the right and ease by which they can set up their own store, set their own terms, and take 100% of the price for themselves, minus whatever overhead they spend... just like any business.

Quote - Diane's site has great traffic. Many have studied 'rotica's traffic for years. There are great opportunities for many there I think.

I agree 1000%

Renderotica is an excellent place to sell items. I do, and the store does very, very well. There is also new sitecode in the works to revamp the joint, and at the same time make it highly exciting and participation-friendly.

I for one would love to see more folks get involved. Honestly, you don't have to make sex-oriented stuff to sell there - any high-quality item works fine. You also have perfect freedom to make whatever the hell you like. As long as there's a solid level of quality, you're very welcome to participate.

(Disclaimer of honesty: I'm the server-monkey there, and I occasionally sell stuff in the Renderotique. :) ).

PS: oops - my alter-'nym got logged in instead. My apologies.

/P

Quote - Well, sometimes people diskuss open and free, or ramble around, or chat, or talk or whatever ... and they do so where they like to. "stewing in all your self made aggravation" sound very bitter to me.

Uh, I'm not a bit bitter. Just calling it like I see it!! :lol: Reverse psychology doesn't work on me like that!! My mother taught psychology at the University of South Florida...

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Quote - > Quote - Do the products on the Artzone Marketplace have to be exclusive to Artzone and DAZ?

Unconfirmed word behind the scenes is artists have to give them first exclusive right to accept or reject anything they make, though this may be mistaken.

It's mistaken. :-) You can do that. You don't have to do that. And I know I won't be. But yes, they do have to be exclusive.

I don't know what is moving over, but I do know that I didn't offer them all my items, and quite a few vendors didn't offer any.

Quote - At RDNA, 50% or more of all my sales were through CP in the end, so perhaps CP is a good choice for those wanting a more independant enviornment.

CP has been very good to me, so I would agree with this. I would definitely recommend working with them. We don't accept brokers at CGR, but there are quite a few small to medium sized brokerages over there who do. DDU and 3D-Arena come to mind. So if people don't want to broker there directly, they can still get their products up there. :-)

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

Quote -

Quote - *By accessing or using the services of this Site, downloading Materials or merely browsing the Site, you agree ..."

*"...While DAZ 3D does not censor or read private site mail, in the event that DAZ 3D has reason to believe that such communication could be harmful to DAZ 3D, DAZ 3D reserves the right to read, and delete such harmful messages from the Site."

Renderosity does this right now; they simply don't say anything up-front. Should Merchants now leave Renderosity?

actually to be fair Renderosity indeed does say this up front.

**Quote - Communications :**Renderosity provides a variety of communication tools to members. These include: forums, galleries, chat rooms, and site mail. Members using Renderosity to send spam, or unsolicited advertising information, etc will be subject to disciplinary action . Any information provided by members using these services is considered public information and is logged. Renderosity has access to these communications and will review them if needed. Renderosity will not be held responsible and/or liable for information that members choose to share via these tools. We strongly recommend that members exercise forethought and caution prior to disclosing any personal information while using these tools.

in this day and age sites have to think of any eventuality, like for instance I believe that the 911 bombers used the internet to communicate with each other if one of these sites came across communications of this sort they would need to have the right to do something about it.

Oh speaking of sitemail - I also despise the DAZ shop spam that gets sent to your sitemail automatically (and by extension your outside email until you turn that shit off.)

All I know is many good items are being left behind, and others not so good are making it in.

From Poser Pros to the AMZ (DAZ Incinerator), or being left marooned.

Quote - > Quote - Do the products on the Artzone Marketplace have to be exclusive to Artzone and DAZ?

Unconfirmed word behind the scenes is artists have to give them first exclusive right to accept or reject anything they make, though this may be mistaken.

Its never been a secret that items in the Daz store (and now the ArtZone Marketplace) have to be exclusive with them. No one is forcing any merchant to give Daz first right of refusal. Merchants are still free to broker other items where they would like.

Not sure what site you are referring to pjz99**??**** ** **

**ARTZone has sent me friend requests and announcements about upcoming chats that I find quite useful. If you don't like that then check into your account settings and find if there are filters available to turn things like that off or as I stated log in at the Commons and request this option be added. I have never received spam from DAZ through my PM's and there is no site mail on those forums, only at the ARTZone! If you are referring to news letters you can turn those off through your account settings! **

**

---Wolff On The Prowl---

Quote - DAZ didn't have to bail out PP in 2005. There was literally no business case to justify it save for preserving diversity within Poserdom.

No disrespect intended, but "preserving diversity within Poserdom"? :) lol Oh yeah that's why they bought it. It must be on the Daz mission statement. "Preserving diveristy within Poserdom". Seriously ....

Of course there was a very good business case to justify it. They has sought to purchase it once before with reason then as well.

Poser Pros sold for less than a used car so it was a hard bargain to pass up. People forget the three Daz store sections that existed prior to the purchase.

Premier
Platimum Club
Loft

Poser Pros was bought, not as a charitable rescue attempt, but as a smart business decision to replace the Loft, while preserving someplace to send products that might not have passes acceptance into Premier, while still allowing money to be made if they sold. Also it was a cheap way to aquire a dominant Poser domain and good PR. A win win situation.

Saying the forums were unaltered isn't really accurate is it? And that was the second reason to buy PoserPros, especially for just a few thousand dollars; the got the forums that went with it. Not that those changes were bad, but the site was not left uninfluenced by Daz policies. I don't think any PP moderator or admin would deny that.

Noone should be offended by anyone's opinions. Merchant issues and concerns are often completely different than customer issues and concerns.

Wherever merchants end up, best of luck to them. Choose stores that empower your rights, not silence them. Just my opinion, of course.

On a side note. I am not familiar with the acronym DDU. Sorry to sound daft, but what is it?

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Quote -

On a side note. I am not familiar with the acronym DDU. Sorry to sound daft, but what is it?

Digital Designs Unlimited :)

Cheers,
Alisa

RETIRED HiveWire 3D QAV Director

Another site to get familiar with... sniffle I'm already on overload.

I didn't see very many non-daz items showing up in artzone marketplace. Not enough to go to artzone instead of DAZ, unless they merge and I just plain have to.

I wonder where merchants whom don't make the DAZ cut will end up going :
I think someone mentioned that in here, but I have some catching up to do with the thread Actually, I'm more likely to go paint some textures then to try and concentrate on business politics at the moment.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - > Quote -

On a side note. I am not familiar with the acronym DDU. Sorry to sound daft, but what is it?

Digital Designs Unlimited :)

Cool. Thankie!

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

You're very welcome, Anton (there's a weird one - I'm used to being the one saying thanks to you ;->)

Cheers,
Alisa

RETIRED HiveWire 3D QAV Director

*I wonder where merchants whom don't make the DAZ cut will end up going :

*There's a thread over at PP where merchants will be trading, but don't assume it's cos they didn't make the cut. There's quite a few good brokerages out there now, and many people may have chosen ones other than AZM. Or some are putting some products at the AZM and keeping others in other places. *

Can I just remind people that 3DCommune is always open to new vendors and the new site should be up and running very very soon :) :)

if i put something in my cart at artzone which i already bought at daz i wonder if i will get a warning message or might just accidentally buy it twice love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Quote - if i put something in my cart at artzone which i already bought at daz i wonder if i will get a warning message or might just accidentally buy it twice love esther

Just tried it - yes, it does tell you. :)

Keep in mind that the stores are linked. If you add something from AZM, then from Daz, it all goes in one cart...

Cheers,
Alisa

RETIRED HiveWire 3D QAV Director

thanks - good news!

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Quote - > Quote - DAZ didn't have to bail out PP in 2005. There was literally no business case to justify it save for preserving diversity within Poserdom.

No disrespect intended, but "preserving diversity within Poserdom"? :) lol Oh yeah that's why they bought it. It must be on the Daz mission statement. "Preserving diveristy within Poserdom". Seriously ....

None taken - I was being semi-facetious. ;) Point was, they had no real business case for doing it. Even for sucking in merchants and products, while PPros has a very decent pile of stuff, the majority of it wouldn't have made it into the DAZ store, else it would've already been there. > Quote - Of course there was a very good business case to justify it. They has sought to purchase it once before with reason then as well.

It is true they talked with Mehndi and Russell in an attempt to purchase it in early 2002. But - that was before DAZ built their own forums. I was approached about helping them build those (and you were physically present for that one). Those fora have grown nicely, to the point that by 2005, DAZ' fora were more active than PPros'. QED: By 2005, PPros had nothing that DAZ really needed. > Quote - Poser Pros sold for less than a used car so it was a hard bargain to pass up.

True, relatively speaking. Mehndi was the one who had brought things to that point, and they would've lost their investment entirely w/o the bailout. That said, price means bupkis if the investment brings you nothing of note... It was like buying a Ferrari that's missing an engine, transmission, and half its body panels... it would cost you more to reconstruct than the thing would be worth whole. > Quote - Poser Pros was bought, not as a charitable rescue attempt, but as a smart business decision to replace the Loft, while preserving someplace to send products that might not have passes acceptance into Premier, while still allowing money to be made if they sold. Also it was a cheap way to aquire a dominant Poser domain and good PR. A win win situation.

If that were true, then why did DAZ wait three years before bothering to bring 'em into the official fold? 3 years is a very, very long time on the Internet clock. They got their investment back, yes - just like any other business transaction. But - it's not much of a business case to do so w/ a store that did less traffic than RDNA. Sure - it creates a 'secondary' store, but in the three years since, how much effort did DAZ put into it on their part? (Answer: little to none, considering that it was run by its own separate staff and store changes were next to nil). Now for the trifecta: What would've stopped DAZ from merely letting PPros die and merely inviting all merchies to participate into internally-built stores of the same purpose? It would've been cheaper than all the domain and DB shifting... > Quote - Saying the forums were unaltered isn't really accurate is it?

It is perfectly accurate. PPros ran itself this whole time, and remained editorially independent - ask Guarie if you'd like. Knowing both styles of moderation, I can say for certain that a place like the 'Coop would not (and IMHO will not) exist in DAZ-run fora. > Quote - On a side note. I am not familiar with the acronym DDU. Sorry to sound daft, but what is it?

"Digital Designs Unlimited" (a small store ;) ). /P

Quote - Point was, they had no real business case for doing it. Even for sucking in merchants and products, while PPros has a very decent pile of stuff, the majority of it wouldn't have made it into the DAZ store, else it would've already been there.

Just because DAZ might not have sold those items in their main store, doesn't mean they wouldn't like to make money from them just the same - this is why Ford Motor Company sells cars under the Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury brands (and Mazda and Volvo and Jaguar and Land Rover...)

Quote - > Quote - Point was, they had no real business case for doing it. Even for sucking in merchants and products, while PPros has a very decent pile of stuff, the majority of it wouldn't have made it into the DAZ store, else it would've already been there.

Just because DAZ might not have sold those items in their main store, doesn't mean they wouldn't like to make money from them just the same - this is why Ford Motor Company sells cars under the Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury brands (and Mazda and Volvo and Jaguar and Land Rover...)

I agree, but there were (and are) a lot more profitable ways to expand in that vein, than buying a site whose own owner just got busted for copyright infringement. First off, they could've simply bought the store contracts and ditched the site. They could've taken over ownership, branding, management, and simply absorbed it all in. They could've even created a 'flea market' on their own site, dropped the entrance standards (and max pricing) to that which is required here, and absorbed a lot more merchants than by buying a running site. Instead, they bought the site+domain of PPros, continued to pay the staff of it, and at the same time let 'em run the whole shebang as an independently-run entity - for three years. Ford does what it does w/ acquisitions because of reasons that didn't apply here: Brand Recognition, Brand Heritage/History, Customer Brand Loyalty, International Corporate Law, Taxes... it's a whole other ballgame when you're talking about products that have been around nearly a century and have millions of customers apiece. :) /P

Quote - "Saying the forums were unaltered isn't really accurate is it?"

It is perfectly accurate.

erm you missed when we were asked to conform to the TOS in the coop then....? you know.. stop all the attacks, cut back on the calling each other names etc. as in change the way the coop was setup? I'd call that altered...

Quote - * *but don't assume it's cos they didn't make the cut.

I'm just going by DAZ / tzone email they sent out few days ago, where they are saying that the products from Poser Pro's whicha are fitting DAZ guidelines will be available at Artzone. That means that there's going to be those which do not. (Much like every marketplace has their own guidelines)
I'm sure there's going to be people whom also made a conscious decision to not offet their products on Artzone - however, my impression was that for most vendors being accepted by DAZ was desireable, so I don't expect those will be in majority.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - Instead, they bought the site+domain of PPros, continued to pay the staff of it, and at the same time let 'em run the whole shebang as an independently-run entity - for three years.

I'm not privy to all the gossip and whatnot, but that strikes me as very reasonable business. You're assuming that the valuable asset they bought was the content - I think the customer base they bought is at least as valuable. I don't know why you think brand recognition and brand loyalty do not apply to a content vendor website, I know in my own Poser shopping habits I bought nearly exclusively from DAZ3d.com and renderosity.com. If someone had bought renderosity.com, they would have gotten my business unless they drastically dicked with the site. I'm sure many buyers behave the same.