This is V4's geometry and a rig I put together today. Have not finished rigging the hands.  Absolutely NO magnets, NO morphs of any kind, JCM's or otherwise. Just a straight rig, with my secret additions for bending. No post work. Look at that hip bend and notice the leg does not get squashed. Butt looks more natural too.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

That looks very good.

Klutz :0)

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Life is a beta.

In faecorum semper, solum profundum variat.

excellent bending, as in yer other models, phan.
does this one also have the extra joints below to the hip?
any thought to adding the extra shoulder joint yet?

Impressive.

Dang.
I wanna ask Phantom to teach me lol.

I don't even know where to start modelling and you're re-rigging stuff. :)

Silke

I'm perplexed why DAZ doesn't hire folks like you to do this during the finalizing stages.  I suppose all her clothes are not going to fit then, correct?? I hope I'm wrong! 

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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Quote - excellent bending, as in yer other models, phan.
does this one also have the extra joints below to the hip?
any thought to adding the extra shoulder joint yet?

Miss Nancy: Yes this model does have a double hip Its basically the same rig as my two project models with a few adjustments.  And I have indeed added another bone to the shoulder joint in my two models in the critique forum but not this one because I would have to cut up the shoulder into new groups.  I left you a personal message in the critique forum with a pic of the results of the new shoulder bone.  Here's a quik link, its a long thread I know.  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2728435&page=3 

About 3/4 of the page down page 3

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote - I'm perplexed why DAZ doesn't hire folks like you to do this during the finalizing stages.  I suppose all her clothes are not going to fit then, correct?? I hope I'm wrong! 

Most of the clothes may not work because the bones are different.  But they could be converted.
Probably too much work though.  I wish Daz had let me make the rig for her as well.  Would not have had to waste so many magnets and morphs.

cheers

phantom3D

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote - Dang.
I wanna ask Phantom to teach me lol.

I don't even know where to start modelling and you're re-rigging stuff. :)

I just jump in with both feet and start punching, thats how I learned. Also I tear other peoples models apart and see how they work, then decide what I like and what I don't like about them.
lots and lots of trial and error...............................

cheers,

phantom3D

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

That looks very good indeed.
Did you also recut the mesh? If not, all the morphs will continue to work.
And transferring the rigging to clothes is not that difficult - I could probably even whip up a Python script that would do the complete transfer automatically.

I agree with the other posters - DAZ should hire you to do the rigging for their figures. Or, if Smith Micro is smart, THEY hire you and beat the crap out of the Vickis with superior rigging in their new figures....

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery   My freestuff

Can't believe how much better her leg looks.... nice work!

Gallery

Quote - That looks very good indeed.
Did you also recut the mesh? If not, all the morphs will continue to work.
And transferring the rigging to clothes is not that difficult - I could probably even whip up a Python script that would do the complete transfer automatically.

I agree with the other posters - DAZ should hire you to do the rigging for their figures. Or, if Smith Micro is smart, THEY hire you and beat the crap out of the Vickis with superior rigging in their new figures....

Yea I did recut the mesh on the hip and thighs so the morphs would need reworked but that's pretty easy to do.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Wow! I would love to play with that! No magnets!!! Wow!

You every try an old low res figure like Victoria 3 Reduced Resolution or Victoria 2? 

I actually think the Vicky Preteen morphed up as an adult figure is a great mesh for bending and the full body morphs once you transfer the V2 face shape and the V2 breast morphs over to it.

I tend to use the V2 and V3RR even for male figures.

I have not tried them but I doo have some low res versions of the two models of my own.  I will try rerigging some of the lower res figures and see how they come out.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

If you were to make this new rigged version of Victoria made public would she still be able to take her morphs?  If not is there going to be a work around to make the morphs and clothing fit?  How about other characters derived from her like Aiko 4 and Vittorio 4?? 

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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Great work there phantom. I've never tried bending V3 or V4 like that but I just know she'll not do it as well as your figure.
I'll have to keep an eye on your progress for sure.

Quote - If you were to make this new rigged version of Victoria made public would she still be able to take her morphs?  If not is there going to be a work around to make the morphs and clothing fit?  How about other characters derived from her like Aiko 4 and Vittorio 4?? 

I don't know. It was just an excersize to see if my ideas for rigging would work for V4 with her lower polygon count.  But I know that any morphs she has for the hips and thighs would have to be re tooled because I changed the poly groups to accomodate the double hip.

Do you think people would be interested in a V4 rigged differently?  I was just doing it for myself because there were too many magnets and I felt I could get better results from a better rig.  All the textures would still fit since I did not change the geometry. And most of the morphs would still fit because I only changed a couple body part groupings.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

I am VERY interested!

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery   My freestuff

3/23/08

I am very interested, and impressed. :)

Of course, if while you were at such a remake, you fixed the underarm problem, no one would complain.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

As a free thing I would love a no-magnet version of V4 even without morphs but I imagine a commercial version would need to have the more popular morphs converted. You could maybe get around this for a product if you added body handles to use in place of the morphs for shaping the buttocks/thighs and maybe breasts.

Myself I use mainly heavy, pear shape, young, thin and the breast morphs and lately the male, but I imagine other people use voluptuous and stuff like that. I also use a genital morph set for the hips because I don't really like prop genitals for female figures. I think the Poser 2 Nude Woman worked well with texture genitals because of the hip arrangement but even  with morphs the V4 groin area looks odd to me.

I would use it for nude stuff but I imagine if it was a popular figure you could get Wardrobe Wizard support for the clothes. I think most users still prefer conforming over dynamic clothes although I have some pretty decent dynamics I could use for pinup type stuff.

Really those V4 magnets take a toll on my system.

Quote - 3/23/08

I am very interested, and impressed. :)

Of course, if while you were at such a remake, you fixed the underarm problem, no one would complain.

LMK

Oh yea, the underarm issue!    That would be nice to see that fixed as well.  Cuts coming up that far.... Not sure why DAZ insists that they have done the best that they can do.  I think that's BS, those cuts do not have to be that high and if they were lower, in a more normal position how would that impede the movement of the arm??

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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3/23/08

I don't think adjusting the presently available morphs would be very difficult for an experienced developer. It would probably be more time consuming than anything else. But imagine being able to use all of the XYZ scales along with morphs to sculpt the figure the way you conceive it. Of course, derived work would need to be coded to load or work only if one owned the earlier work (figures, morphs, etc).

Do magnet sets to adjust clothing introduce the same kind of memory overhead that the V4 default joint magnets cause? If magnets would not be the answer, how would one convert clothing, short of using WW2?

I know that a point of key interest would be whether a re-rigged, jointed, and morphed V4 would work in Carrara. Some people like to do their renders and animations in that application. Naturally, D|S users would be interested in compatibility.

Re-rigging and re-jointing all of Poserdom seems to be a huge and largely thankless task. A few favorite characters might benefit from a remake. I understand that there is a collaborative effort to rework a centaur. Maybe phantom3D would have a few moments to contribute toward this, if it doesn’t give away too many of the "secrets" he is working on.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

just to say, i don't think it would work as a commercial product unless you could keep all her head morphs.  i'm pretty sure PhilC has utilities in WW 1 that could copy the groups and rigging to the clothes automatically.  and, if necessary, that means you could do the same.  but no morphs at all would be a problem for most users. 

Quote - Do magnet sets to adjust clothing introduce the same kind of memory overhead that the V4 default joint magnets cause? If magnets would not be the answer, how would one convert clothing, short of using WW2?

Regardless of the use, the same memory useage is involved. I don't think WW2 wouldn't work because the new rig isn't in WW2. Wouldn't WW have to be set up to use the new rig if new actors are being added. You could suppy a blank cr2, as I do for Apollo, that people could plug the clothes into.

Phantom3d,
Can I ask who you are? lol No offense intended. But the name is a bit mysterious, obviously you know quite a lot about Poser, and your avatar says you are a newbie.

Do we know you as someone else more familiar? I know you are working on some figures. You might want to use a real name oppose to an alias.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I was a little surprised this rig worked so well with the V4.  The underarm thing is fixed in the new models I am working on, it came down to putting another bone in the shoulder and messing around with the poly groups till it all worked.

Now that I'm thinking about it I have a rig that works really well for M3, D3, and V3 too.  I tried one for James and it worked but not nearly as well, the geometry for james is wrong for this type of rig.

Some of the morphs would have to be redone and I don't exactly know how you could get the poly groupings changed and not include any geometry. As I understand it the geometry cannot be redistributed or given away in any manner. But if there was a way to simply change the poly groups with an install then the rig and install would be legal.

Who is doing the Centaur?

But then if I did make a rig for V4 I would be giving away all my secrets before my models come out..............Just some thoughts.

Thanks for the interest.  I guess alot of people are just as unhappy with the rig and all those magnets as I was.

Cheers,

phantom3D

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

3/23/08

I believe that RAMWolff among others is working on the centaur.

There is no rush to publish a re-rigged V4 (or any other model). These could wait until you have introduced your own line of figures.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Anton:  I am a newbie,  but I'm a pretty fast learner.  I have been working with 3Ds Max, Zbrush and poser now for about 2 years but have not been online or a member of renderosity. As far as giving out my real name online, not something I want to do. That's part of what's great about the internet, I can be annonomous. Most people seem to use a nickname.

Cheers,

phantom3D  (Mike) that's all I want to give out. lol

BTY I have taken alot of inspiration from you model. I think its a quality product.

lkendall: thanks for the info I'll look into it.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Hiya,

The Centaur project is one I'm involved with currently.  Shante wanted the Zygote Centaur or any Centaur made available.  DAZ was working on one but the person involved.... something happened and he had to back out and then project was shelved.  A real shame since it would have been probably David and the Mil 2 horse, so it would have been a worthy project but ... oh well. 

So here we are with the Zygote Centaur that DAZ nicely donated to the community thanks to another member Kattey, nice gal.  I stepped in and wanted to redo the eyes.  Then Randy, (OKC) offered up his remapped version of the Zygote Centaur so then there were 2 mapped Centaurs.  Textures were offered and Kattey stepped up to the plate to add in some morphs.  Then another gal, Slochez**,** started working on another, re-mapping of the Centaur and so far it looks very promising, nice flat mapping!    What's needed still is someone that can do face morphs. 

It's the original Muscleman mesh (I think that's the name) with the Poser Horse, which was probably derived from the Zygote horse....

In any case if you wish here is the forum address to where the action is:
forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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just to say, i don't think WW would need adjustments for the rigging.   i think it's the original mesh shape that's important.  i think at least WW 1 copies grouping and rigging in ways that aren't figure specific.  but i could be totally off.

Quote - ***Anton:  I am a newbie,  but I'm a pretty fast learner.  I have been working with 3Ds Max, Zbrush and poser now for about 2 years but have not been online or a member of renderosity. As far as giving out my real name online, not something I want to do. That's part of what's great about the internet, I can be annonomous. Most people seem to use a nickname.

Cheers,

phantom3D  (Mike) that's all I want to give out. lol

BTY I have taken alot of inspiration from you model. I think its a quality product.*** 

Well just Mike is fine. I am glad to see more people interested in Poser and experimenting is always fun.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Thanks Anton,  I would really like to do this modeling stuff full time like you do.  I am going to wait to see how I do with my first stuff.  But I am encouraged by the interest so far.  I am very slow because I learn alot as I go.

cheers,

phantom3D

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote -
Do you think people would be interested in a V4 rigged differently? 

Certainly!

Klutz 

********************************************************************************************************************

Life is a beta.

In faecorum semper, solum profundum variat.

Anything that improves on the original will be gratefully received by everyone.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Finish your models first,  why should Daz and V4 get the benifits of your work.
Take your time and finish the male model,  then if the Daz Sheep People does not supprot your work , you can improve the  Daz Models.

bkmk

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

I tend to agree with Niles, your original modeling work was going along gangbusters and you were kicking a lot of ass there.  Not really any incentive for you to put tons of effort into rigging somebody else's mesh when your own is as good as it is, except for play.  People who want to use your figures wouldn't be able to share conforming clothing or textures between them anyway (although you might consider trying to match your original figure's UVmapping to one of the popular standards)

My Freebies

3/23/08

*"People who want to use your figures wouldn't be able to share conforming clothing or textures between them anyway (although you might consider trying to match your original figure's UVmapping to one of the popular standards)"

pjz99:

About which popular standards are you thinking? The V/M/SP/D/F/SF/A/H3, the V/A4, and or some other figure's UV mapping? It seems to me that if phantom3D releases his figures, and he doesn't map his models to these standards himself, some one else will. He seems to be good at mapping UV's, why shouldn't he himself issue figures that can take these maps and make the money for it himself? I would think he would get the most return on his time spent with the V/M3 maps because there are SO many of them. Then again, I am being awfully liberal with his time.

On the other hand, he seems to be bringing some fresh thinking to model rigging, jointing, and mesh creation. He may have something innovative to offer to mapping. He has expressed the possibility that he might release figures with several UV mapping options. Why not include at least one option that would provide a large number of already made maps? If only I had talent, instead of just ideas!

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

phan, thx fr the update on the figures.  just to mention, it was anton who first applied the
idea of an intermediate shoulder joint to the poser figure (apollo), although you came
up with the extra hip joint independently.

in regard to wardrobe wizard, contact philc with a view to seeing how he feels about
how his app would work in adjusting v3 and v4 clothes to your new v4 joint set-up.

Well if he's half as impressed as we are then I would hope he would try to support Phantom's work! 

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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I am working out a way to include a set of high res maps, which need to be on separate maps since poser only uses up to a certain size, and a set of easy to use maps that are on two maps, one body and one head map.  Also I have an idea to create stretch free textures, I don't know if anyone else is doing this but I have not run into any yet if they are out there.  Real skin in high stretch areas of the body is scrunched up when not stretched and the details are smaller too something like a balloon does with printing or a logo on the rubber. I don't know if I can get that sortof fine wrinkle look to the skin like you see on the buttocks or the top of the shoulder when the skin is unstretched, but I am pretty sure I can get a texture not to stretch and blur ect when the model bends. An idea I've been working on in the background for awhile.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote - phan, thx fr the update on the figures.  just to mention, it was anton who first applied the
idea of an intermediate shoulder joint to the poser figure (apollo), although you came
up with the extra hip joint independently.

in regard to wardrobe wizard, contact philc with a view to seeing how he feels about
how his app would work in adjusting v3 and v4 clothes to your new v4 joint set-up.

 
There were many things that Anton did with his apollo that I liked. As for the extra joint in the shoulder I had all but given up on the Idea,  (couldn't seem to get a poly grouping that would work with it)  but you, Miss Nancy, hounded me about putting it in  mercilessly, for which I heartily thank you, now that I have finally got it to work. It solves many problems with the shoulder joint.  And I thank Anton for coming up with the idea if he was the first.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

My impression is that phantom3D is doing his own thing and is more interested in making the best figure he can rather than approaching it as a strictly commercial venture. He seems to be working on a UV superior to Unimesh or any other. I still have not gathered what his financial/commercial goal is in terms of selling the figures or otherwise making money off them but it seems that his focus is on good design.

The idea of Daz benefiting from his V4 rigging is discouraging on one level but on an other I sure would like to have the figure optimized. As for a standard UV, Apollo and Miki did okay despite having their own UVs. If his UV comes out anything like it looks to it should be much nicer to texture than other UVs.

Once his figure is out I don't see what harm it would do his original figures if he released his re-rigged V4 since I can't see that it would be a competing product. Might generate interest in his original figure. I'm interested in his hi-res/lo-res option plans for his figure since a lot of people including me do have use for a lighter mesh that bends well.

On the down side, it does seem to me that no matter how good a new figure is, without the market clout of Daz you can not ever expect to rival "This Years Vicky" for preeminence; especially with newbie users. You just have to come to terms with your place in the market. Either do what Anton has done and give it away or come up with a low unit price to see if you can get a base that will garner support.

The least good option I would expect is choosing a dollar price you think reflects the value of your work rather than low balling it to try to get volume. If you look in clearance you will see a number of really excellent products that are getting pulled from the market all together because the developer just could not deal emotionally with a volume sales price and went above that magic number for discretionary spending whatever it is... $12? $15? $17? $19. I can't imagine that Uzlite has ever cleared the kind of dollars per month BATLAB has. I'm sure Richibari clears more dollars than Stonemasson for that matter so it comes down to a personal choice I guess. There was a time when a single Posette texture could sell at $16 bucks but people expect a hell of a lot for $12 now I think.

Is there any other buisnesss model?

Releasing a low res version and selling the hi-res upgrade? I don't think people love the Daz system of a freebie base model and expensive morph sets. To challenge Daz I would think the figure would have to ship with the full morph set and a basic texture at a pretty low price. Would vendors ever consider paying a 10% royalty to the figure developer for conforming clothes and skin textures if the figure was released by the developer for free?

I think the users and the developers were happier ultimately back in the old freebie/DYI days 1995-2001 maybe. It seems people get all caught up and put through the wringer by the market just for a few grand a year or a couple grand a month... something I can understand if you are in the developing world but maybe not so much if the money isn't critical. Even the people I know from Eastern Europe or Africa making sales for money that actually matters for them have a hell of a time actually getting their hands on the cash given the limits of the local economy... they end up with the money sitting inaccessible in Paypal or store credit!

In everything I say do it for yourself and treat the income as gravy. When I was actually earning my living with commercial work I figured I should do work I was proud of but not kick myself if I ever got screwed. I still get royalties from various telecoms etc. but to me it is all a gift... how would I ever be able to go after it if they decided to screw me out of my cut? I read the sales reports they send me and cash the checks they send with a sense of wonder that at least in America the honor system seems to be good for something and so far as I know I have never been burned. If I were? Well, it would have meant some hours of my life "wasted" doing work I enjoyed but didn't make money on...

phantom3D,  My simple opinnion(such as anyone without talent can possibly give) is that your work as seen in your image on this post is impressive and that my only advice when doing any type of project is to do it the way and pace that makes you happy and content. Good luck on your projects!

the other business model is the zygote business model.
however, poser users only have deep pockets for mass-market promotional items.
if they're spending $9.95 per item, they soon lose track of the fact that they're
spending zygote-like sums in small bits.

So true, and when you consider that you usually don't get everything you need and have to keep buying to finally have a usuable product, that 20 dallar purchase has become 50 dallars.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Phantom,
You are putting out quality stuff there my friend...looks great.
The market can be fickle for sure...some junk will sell like hotcakes while other products drop to the floor. Go figure! :lol:

Comitted to excellence through art.

DarkEdge: 

Thanks, I am going to put them together even if they flop and no one wants them, I figure that at the very least I can have some figures that I like and the satisfaction of knowing I built them.

Cheers,

phantom3D

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Aye, if we don't get stoked by what we ourselves create...how can others?

Comitted to excellence through art.

Definately interested.  Very nice work!

.

New figures and a re-rigging of V4? This animator waits patiently for the new toys to play with.

I am happy to know that people are interested, I would like to add that I also have a low res,  (12000 poly's) and a medium res (35-40k poly') version of both of my new model projects that I am working on , so that there will be more options for peoples choice.  I have been talking with various people in the critique forum and there seems to be a need for some lower poly models for fill in the background, and things like that. There was another idea mentioned that I thought might be a cool model, and that was to have a model with a low res body but with a high res face and hands, if the model is wearing clothes all the poly's in the body are a waste.

Or if I could figure out how its done then body switching. Just some thoughts.

Cheers

phantom3D

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote - I am happy to know that people are interested, I would like to add that I also have a low res,  (12000 poly's) and a medium res (35-40k poly') version of both of my new model projects that I am working on , so that there will be more options for peoples choice.

That's a very smart move.  I've been following your other posts and I am excited to see what you end up with.

I work with the same ethic in that I like to make things I can be proud of in the end.  Even if nobody uses them (and it does happen with some projects) I still have the satisfaction of knowing I made something that I wanted to see come to life.

I have done quite a bit of figure-rigging (most of it in toon lines of figures, but also robots and complex objects), morphs and magnets used solely as morph-development tools for the end user.

If you need any help or are puzzling over anything or would like a beta tester... just let me know.  I would love to support your figures with add-on products and have a decent track record of supporting 3rd party and non-mainstream figures (Sixus1's HER, Jessi G2, Alexa, Miki 2, Apollo, etc).

Even a hair conversion system would be a nice touch :)

.

There are some threads around that discuss the body switch but an example would be the hands on the old Poser 2 figures. Instead of finger posing there was a hand dial that just switched out geometry for different hand shapes. Some old props link the Victoria morphing Eyewear also used a geometry switch. I once set up Poser 4 Nude Woman to switch between the standard head and a head remapped to its own map. My experience with this stuff is that if you made a lo res figure with a geometry switch to a high res head, the morph channels on the .cr2 would work if the appropriate morphs were injected... I have switched head geometry by making a head prop and using "replace body part with prop" and when the morphs for the replacement head were injected  they worked fine.

People might ask why you need a low res body under clothes instead of just turning off the hidden body part's visibility but I find quite often the clothes leave gaps that must be filled. It isn't often practical to just turn off the chest/collars/arms etc.

I bet you would have a market with animators if you had a figure that could go long shot in lo-res and feature the same character in hi-res for close-ups and inserts. I just want lo and medium res so I can get more than two fully dressed figures in a scene.

Bookmarked for interest.

Netherworks:  I will definitely need people to beta test these figures, I run them through what I have but they will need thourough testing.

momodot:  Those are some thought provoking ideas, I was reading somewhere in another thread about using a dial to switch body parts.  It just seems to me something like that would solve many problems especially for animation. But wouldn't you have to have the geometry for the high res head loaded to use a dial? If thyou do then that would not give any benefits for resources.  But switching the head with a prop that could work and you would not have to have the high res head loaded untill you needed it. That could be set up with just a mouse click.

I am going backward a bit with the development of my models because I noticed something the other day.  When I rigged V4 to my special rig, I noticed that her shoulderblades deformed better than my two models did when the arms were bent upwards.  So I studied the phenomenon and came to the conclusion that it was the edge looping done in the area of the shoulderblades that gave the better deformation in the bend.  So I have decided to go back and do some edgelooping of my own on the shoulderblades of my models. They have different geometry but still the principle is the same and I think I can wring a little bit better performance out of them.  I know this slows me down a bit in finishing them but I think in the end it is worh the effort.  Plus I can work on the low res figures at the same time since the low res figures are just the high res figures at a lower subdivision. I hope everyone will be patient with me its only an extra week tops to get the extra work done.

cheers,

phantom3D

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

3/24/08

Patient? He don't know us very well, do he?

Actually, the more quality and innovation you can pack into phantom3D figures version 1.0, the better for all who might use them. The Poser/D|S/whateversite market place is filled with half finished products, and most of us cannot re-rig, re-joint, and re-model poorly designed figures, props, hair, cloths, scenes, etc. for ourselves. Don't rush.

I find watching your progress to be fascinating, and I hope you will continue to share renders from time to time.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Attached Link: UMT

I would be very Very VERY  interested in a re-rigged M3, -- just leave his head group alone so he keeps his head morphs. -^   (My dream M4 is really M3 re-rigged, so you are fueling my daydreams! lol)

I think Wardrobe Wizard and UMT could be a method people could use to convert their clothes and morphs, but there some things that would need to be settled first:  

1. Make sure is okay with a re-rigged V4. (There was one here in Renderosity that gave extra bones to the breasts, so I think it would be okay, but it never hurts to check.

2. Have PhilC add V4 New Rig figure to Wardrobe Wizard (you will have to talk with him on the finer details).

3. Have Universal Morph Transfer updated and/or upgraded to include V4 and the New Rig V4. Users can convert their V4 morphs to New Rig V4 as INJ and REM. (Contact mmogul to discuss the details).

What do you think of my plan? ^^
I really like what you've doing with the rig, phantom3D. ^^

bB

Quote - momodot:  Those are some thought provoking ideas, I was reading somewhere in another thread about using a dial to switch body parts.  

It would cool to have a Low Res figure but dial in a High Res head and/or hands for close-ups. ^^

BUT you risk loosing DAZ Studio compatibly. I'm not sure DS can handle geo switching.

You could just make a hybrid. The hybrid Cr2 would include a line of code that refers to the High Res obj version of your model for the head, the rest could be the default low res.

About the UV maps, and other issues, -- I like that you are doing things your own way.  You are "out-of-the-box" and a good listener too.  ^^

Really the simplest would be a low res figure, a high res figure, and a hybrid as separate figures. I think even the figure variants with different UVs would be more manageable as separate figures. I have not had much trouble saving for instance a lo res figure character and its hi res clone in the library and replacing the former with the latter in a scene on the fly.

I actually hate having to find MAT poses for a hair or prop with external geometry  and only a morph or two so I indulge myself by just saving multiples in the library with the different MATposes applied, deleting the poses I end up with the same memory use on disc more or less but much more ease of use! With injection figures why not have a few varients in the figure library as opposed to dealing with rigging and geometry switching poses... someone like me at least would end up saving the varients as separate figures in the library for fast loading anyhow. I must admit that my workflow is to use a figure saved to the library fully loaded with morphs, dial the character, use a script to spawn new morphs to all the body parts, and then REM all the injection morphs but the expressions before posing. Sometimes I even spawn the morph with the facial expression set and REM the expression channels as well.

On non injection figures I have to export the morphed but zeroed figure as an obj and then import it as a prop and use the Set-up Room to rig it with a shaved down .cr2.

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I don't know if objects take up memory when they are on a geometry switch... I wouldn't expect they would but what do I know? The problem with a prop head is that if you save a figure with a prop head the geometry gets saved in the .cr2 as "custom" geometry. When the prop is added by "replace body part" it seems the geometry is also stored in the .cr2. If you change grouping with the grouping tool the geometry of the whole figure is stored externally but in the library folder with the .cr2.

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BastBlack, when I saw PoserPros was shutting down I got Dodger's M3 re-shaped and re-rigged to M2 shape and rigging and the V3 with Posette shape/rigging and despite the weak promo renders they look AMAZING on my machine. Too bad they were not the M3RR and V3RR respectively!  They both look great and take stature scaling and injection morphs beautifully.

I wonder what the ultimate market effect would have been if the unimesh and unimesh rigging had been released as Creative Commons that let people sell derivatives. People could have made mesh and rigging solutions that DAZ could have brokered with exclusive agreements given their market command... both Phantom3D and DAZ would make out as bandits if DAZ brokered his re-rigging as a parallel figure but they don't do business that way do they? Instead they will look at his original figures and integrate the innovations on their next figure I suppose.

The sad thing for Phantom3D is that he really has to face the 800 pound gorilla.

lkendall: I am an obsessive, stuborn, pitbull. When I start something I worry it, experiment with it and generally shake it till it does what I want it to do. I couldn't possibly put out something that I was not sastisfied with. There has been alot of crap put out in the past, the frustration in working with things like that is what started me building my own. I used to buy products and buy products to try to find something that would work like I wanted it to. Now I buy stuff just to take it apart and see if they have done anything in making it to suprise me. I don't want to sound totally negative, there are some really good modelers and riggers out there.

I will certainly post some pics of progress.  Shortly I hope to have some comparison shots of the low, mid and high poly models, so everyone can see the differences. Each has its uses, but they are different. on a low poly model for instance you are not going to get nearly as much detail in the mesh either as a starting base or with morphs. But they don't use much in resources.

BastBlack:  That's a good plan for the new rigs, I have rigs for all the past models, M3, V3, David ,M2 and V2.  I built them over the last two years because I have always hated the rigs supplied with the models. I didn't build one for Apollo Maximus, he's already got a good one.
I especially like the idea for transfering the morphs, I have been trying to figure out how that could be done, because I cannot include any fixed and transfered daz morphs with the rigs.Or anything else that they have built. It all has to be like an aftermarket part for a car, you can build your own souped up replacement parts to fit, but you cannot use any of their parts to do it.

That's another great idea for switching the head and hands, it could be like the gen-no gen switch of a model like james.  Cool!

Thanks,

phantom3D

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Geometry switch is certainly cool. Probably good as an advertising gimmick too for that matter!

Quote - Geometry switch is certainly cool. Probably good as an advertising gimmick too for that matter!

 
Sounds like a really cool idea, but it still has to be explored and experimented with, see if it's a viable option, with benefits.

Sometimes, a little monkey can snatch the banana right out from under that 800 pound gorrilla's nose, and scamper off to safety.  Just have to worry about getting squished.  lol

cheers,

phantom3D

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

I posted some shots of my very low res model in a new thread:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2735005

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

You've done great work so far. The new v4 hip rig is almost perfect.

Please don't laugh at the next thing that I'll say, because for some people here it might sound stoopiD...  I guess you could "extract" some morph targets from the newly rigged figures so they could be applied (inj) to the original figures?! Nobody will make no objections at this.

Wish you luck and successful work!

Yeah if you choose to convert your own completely original morph targets available for the DAZ rig of V4, that's completely above board and legal.

My Freebies

Is it possible to convert a rig change so it can be applied using a script as Kawecki I think it was did to add body handles to V4? I know there was a Posette re-rigging that was injected from a pose file but there was no grouping or boning change in that instance.

3/26/07

I don't know if one could use a script to alter the original figure in such drastic ways. Many have offered their model in an encoded formate that could only be opened with RTE if the user alreadly had the original OBJ file installed. This seems to have been adequate for legal purposes.

As far as moprhs are concerened, a script or compiled program could be used to find already installed morphs, copy them to a new dirrectory, and then alter just the parts that need a change. Again it would only work if the user had the original morphs already installed. I am not a lawyer, but I think this would work to legally distribute a change in moprhs. It would, however, be a huge challenge to program.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

yes, you can use a script to copy bones or rigging.  that's how WW works.  in fact, WW1 has a script to just do that.  you need it when you want to convert and retain morphs by bypassing  regrouping.  same goes for grouping.  WW1, which works just within Poser, changes rigging and grouping by default, and (iirc, i'm not at my Poser computer right now) allows you to apply those individually for greater control.  just as an example, WW1 can convert clothes from Lady Littlefox's Krystal to Anton's Apollo.  and i think the major issue is the morphing.

i don't know that you can do this without a donor figure, but i would think you could?  

I wonder if PhilC could/would write an installer script for Pantom3D's re-rigging. I bet that would be a terrific market synergy!

Yes the transfer is a major problem without giving any geometry with the new rig.  But as I am coming to understand it can be done, and most people point me to PhilC, so when the time is appropriate I will contact him and see what he tells me.  If he does not want to I will look into it myself and see if I can write a script to do the job.  If it can be done I will get it done.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote - If it can be done I will get it done.

Somehow,,,,,,,

I don't doubt that you will.....LOL

Klutz 

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