Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2734970

Since the thread was locked, I will ask here....

If I create an image using primarily figures that we've created, am I allowed to post here still ? Obviously not in the MarketPlace Gallery, but I've had images moved before that weren't promo images and they were moved to the (what was) Product Showcase Gallery.....

Thanks,
Rebekah

You can post images in the regular galleries, as long as you are not advertising any products, no matter who made the figures, as it has always been. You can post images in the MP Gallery, if you are advertising products that are sold 'here'.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

What constitutes advertising ? Not being a smartass either, promise.

Great questions, Les. I usually post images I do with my items as well, and if I can't any longer I kinda need to know that.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Clarification please! I always add credits to my pics and list all stuff I've used and where I got it from. Can I still do that or is only RMP products allowed. And I'm not talking about advertising but simply adding credits to my renders, like I always did.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

Well, anything like links..{text or live} or any text in the description or image itself like "XXXX by Me at yadayada.com, or "XXXX Coming Soon to yadayadayada.com.

Even something like:

"I made this great outfit, and it's in my store now! Check it out at yadayada.com

Of course there are many, many ways to advertise without text links or live links, sometimes without even really meaning to, or realizing you have done it....we can't really place them all in a list ;) If you really are unsure, just slip any staff member a Sitemail and ask :)

Now, if you have something for sale here at the Rendo MP, you can place your images in the MP Showcase, no problem.

If you are using items from others in your images, of course you may use the drop down menu like always, to let everyone know that the item is here at Rendo.

Not really a big list I know, but I hope it helps a bit :)

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Punt,

You can still let people know where you got items, in the regular galleries.. you just cannot link to it...

You can say XXX at Daz, or XXXX from RDNA, etc.. etc..

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Ah ok, that's what I did, just mentioned the store name but no links. Ok, then it's the same for me as before. :-)

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

Only items that are found in the Renderosity MarketPlace will be shown in either area. Any new posts or gallery images regarding outside content will be removed.

So does that mean that you can show new clothes for V4 or A4 or even the G2 figures but not with the figures in it.? Well, that sounds very professional! I wonder how the texture-and charactermakers are going to solve this!

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

How about I make this a bit clearer if I can.

Rendo MP Gallery/Forum-
No live or text based links to offsite stores.
No text in description field, or image itself, advertising a product that is for sale at an offsite store.

Rendo Regular Galleries-
May advertise/credit vendors at Renderosity using drop down menu provided.
No links, text based or live, to offsite stores.
May credit offsite stores/vendors in description field without links, text based or live. Ex: "OutfitX at Daz"

Does that help? Or have I confused you all, as I have began to confuse myself? :laugh:

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Quote - Since the thread was locked, I will ask here....

If I create an image using primarily figures that we've created, am I allowed to post here still ? Obviously not in the MarketPlace Gallery, but I've had images moved before that weren't promo images and they were moved to the (what was) Product Showcase Gallery.....

Thanks,
Rebekah

Prior to this change anyone with a store anywhere was allowed to post in the "Product Showcase Forum" and "Product Showcase Gallery" advertising their wares.

Now by the looks of that announcement you linked to, only Renderosity Merchants and their Renderosity MP products are allowed to be advertised in those areas.

Anyone who doesn't have a store here at Renderosity can no longer post a link to their store advertising their new products or product sales, or indicate that their product is sold someplace else.

Basically Renderosity has taken on a "Renderosity MP" exclusive policy when it comes to product advertising. Which means that those who do not sell in the Renderosity MP, can no longer post about their products sold in other stores on the Renderosity website, because the only 2 places where it was allowed no longer permits it.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Next thing you know, they will change the policy for the entire site by stating you can only post images in the galleries using only items purchased at the Rosity Marketplace.

Does that help? Or have I confused you all, as I have began to confuse myself?

In fact this whole thing is confusing: Where do you draw the line? The major part of the things that are sold in rendo are addons that are meant for content that is made ouside Rendo and is sold at sites like DAZ , RuntimeDNA and CP. Suppose I wanted to make some textures for the new dragon at DAZ and want to sell that here in the MP, I can't show that in the MP-forum because I would advertise for the dragon. I can understand that you don't want that sellers from outside advertise in your forum, although I think this harms the open and neutral atmosphere of Renderosity.
Since the majority of merchants here makes products for non-renderosity content it will be very difficult to keep renders of those content out of the product Gallery.

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

Quote - So does that mean that you can show new clothes for V4 or A4 or even the G2 figures but not with the figures in it.?

Who said anything about not being able to show a product? :huh: Now you have lost me :laugh:

Quote - Which means that those who do not sell in the Renderosity MP, can no longer post about their products sold in other stores on the Renderosity website.

Not necessarily so Acadia....

Quote - Rendo Regular Galleries-
May advertise/credit vendors at Renderosity using drop down menu provided.
No links, text based or live, to offsite stores.
May credit offsite stores/vendors in description field without links, text based or live. Ex: "OutfitX at Daz"

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Quote - Suppose I wanted to make some textures for the new dragon at DAZ and want to sell that here in the MP, I can't show that in the MP-forum because I would advertise for the dragon

Nope, simply showing/advertising the texture on the figure is not considered advertising that figure....

You could say something like:

"New Texture for the Daz Mil Dragon"

Product Requirements: Mil Dragon at Daz

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

I fail to see why the staff at Renderosity, many of who were once long standing community members, would actively enable something that really only hurts small stores, which are actually run by people who are helpful and active parts of the Renderosity community; a policy that is pointless and hamless to the larger stores who, as far as I am aware, have never done anything collectively helpful for Renderosity, it's merchants, and it's members.

I understand why the store owners think this is all neccesary. I just am amazed so many, once community members, are willing to be apart of it. Is site mod or admin status that great? Many of you have been around long enough to see enough to see where this type of "bubble enviornment" leads.

I just find it a very disloyal gesture to people who have participated on the site for years, where others constribute nothing. I don't mean to judge you guys for backing all the recent policies, but I just can't help it. It seems wrong and insincere. And it is not going to help anyone, least of all Renderosity in the end.

Many of us who make content, support and promote merchnat's here at Rendo that support out content. It seems a slap in the face in light of that.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

I guess we're second class citizens now, Anton. Sniff.. and I LIKE ham!

(ReRead yer post.. hehee!)

It's like every store is trying to create some big gravity field to suck people nearby, and not allow any cross pollination between stores.

Next thing ya know, our avatars will have to only be from the store we are posting at.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Quote - > Quote - Which means that those who do not sell in the Renderosity MP, can no longer post about their products sold in other stores on the Renderosity website.

Not necessarily so Acadia....

Quote - Rendo Regular Galleries-
May advertise/credit vendors at Renderosity using drop down menu provided.
No links, text based or live, to offsite stores.
May credit offsite stores/vendors in description field without links, text based or live. Ex: "OutfitX at Daz"

My statement still stands.

For example if Sixus1 created a new product and did a render using it, they can no longer post in the "Market Place Gallery" or the "Market Place Forum" using that new product and giving themselves credit.

IE: " by me" or by Sixus1 Media"

Because to do so would be personal advertising of their product.

So your new rule (which I think is completely stupid by the way), prevents them from advertising their product on this website because the only 2 areas (Product Showcase forum and gallery) were the only places that allowed it, and now they don't.

After the fiasco with the Free Stuff Forum when it came into being where Renderosity tried to make it so that only "Renderosity Exclusive Freebies" that were in the Free Stuff area here were allowed to be posted in that new forum, I just knew in my gut that this new merchant advertising policy was just around the corner.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

They want to "benefit everyone within our growing community. Doing that requires making the appropriate adjustments to keep in stride with the rest of the industry." and "In the end, this is a move that will benefit not just the MarketPlace, but the community as a whole."

My question is how?
It's actually blocking out anything the is happening in the industry unless it happens at Rosity and someone needs to take a look at the meaning of "community" before trying to use it here. As the new policy stands, it does not convey the richness, diversity and complexity of a community. Rosity is not the community as a whole. Hey, they aren't the only fish in the sea.

Mr. Macy understood the consequences of this lady's puzzlement.

Apparently Rendo doesn't.

My python page
My ShareCG freebies

My theory is that Renderosity, still smarting from being dissed and dropped by Content Paradise has instituted this new, restrictive policy as retaliation to exclude Content Paradise promotions--though everyone is included to make the policy seem consistent and reasonable.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

You know I suppose that I have a personal stake in this argument as I do promote my site products in the Product Showcase (as it was). However, I also posted coming soon to Renderosity (when I did and now do) have a rendo store as I know there is a wait during testing. So someone who'd rather shop at Rendo could feasibly wait a week for it to come here.

Anyways, I feel that if folks here believe that offsite product postings - in the Product Showcase or gallery - are really burying Renderosity Marketplace postings, why not just create a new forum for Offsite Product Postings (and even limit those to one per week per poster)? I think that would better benefit the community as a whole... honestly ;)

My 2 cents.

.

So, if I make an image using something that I created, I can post in the regular galleries and say in the description, "blah blah product by Sixus1 available at Content Paradise" but don't post a link to it OR "blah blah product by Sixus1" (still obviously without link) ? The reason I brought it up is before I've had to move images that did that to the Product Showcase Gallery....now I can't post there if I give myself credit.....

--Rebekah--

Quote - So, if I make an image using something that I created, I can post in the regular galleries and say in the description, "blah blah product by Sixus1 available at Content Paradise" but don't post a link to it OR "blah blah product by Sixus1" (still obviously without link) ? The reason I brought it up is before I've had to move images that did that to the Product Showcase Gallery....now I can't post there if I give myself credit.....

--Rebekah--

Based on the the old (still in existance) rule of no advertising in the galleries outside the "Product Showcase Gallery", combined with this new rule of no outside products advertised in the new "Markep Place Gallery", I would say, no, you can't do that. And if you do, you would be in violation of the existing rule of "no advertising in the regular galleries."

Even under the old existing rule of "no advertising in any gallery outside Product Showcase", a non-merchant/regular member, could not post an image in the regular galleries, indicating that the item in the image was soon to be in the merchant's store because that was considered "advertising."

They aren't revoking the old rule of no advertising in the regular galleries. They are however, revoking the ability of outside merchants to advertise their wares by only allowiing Renderosity merchants to advertise in the gallery in the new Merchant Showcase.

It seems that if you, a merchant, want to tell people that you created a product and where it can be found, you need to be a merchant here now, because doing so in the regular gallery violates the "no advertsing in the gallery" rule.

As I said earlier "Basically Renderosity has taken on a "Renderosity MP" exclusive policy when it comes to product advertising. Which means that those who do not sell in the Renderosity MP, can no longer post about their products sold in other stores on the Renderosity website, because the only 2 places where it was allowed no longer permits it."

And if Renderosity can't see that this is the case, they need to go and read their rules again. I suspect this is yet another one of those rules that was introduced without much thought given to the consequences of it.

Instead of trying to draw people to the site, it seens Renderosity is hell bent on alienating them instead.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

January, February, March, Ap... WAIT! It ain't September yet!
The sweep came early this year!

Software: Daz Studio 4.15, Photoshop CC, Zbrush 2022, Blender 3.3, Silo 2.3, Filter Forge 4. Marvelous Designer 7

Hardware: self built Intel Core i7 8086K, 64GB RAM, RTX 3090 .

"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss

"A critic is a legless man who teaches running." ~ Channing Pollock

My Gallery My Other Gallery

Interesting.

Glad I don't post my work here.

This is such a silly rule.

I understand the intentions behind it but wow.

so now in the main poser forum, cause lets face it that is the main forum, an agent working undercover for merchants will just post about the great new product that just came out and post a render of said product which could be by the merchant as long as it's not a promo shot.

following all the rules the merchant can get their product 'advertised' but not by them breaking no rules and in the main poser forum where it can be seen the most.

oh wait I can have up to 10 emails accounts with my isp. clone accounts! I could promote a merchant with 10 users, all being me raving about the new product! yeah!

Me: have you seen XXXXX
I: Why no I had not seen that XXXXX was out, where oh where can it be found?
myself: You didn't know? It can be found at YYYYYYY.com ! It's SOOO GREAT!

As a general user that is not a merchant, not a beta tester, I would not be breaking any of the rules.

How soon ya think this will happen in the poser forum? Anyone wanna take bets? Too late!

Thread "Millenium puppy is out!" by a general poser user.

Rendo is so hilarious.

@Rebekah:

Quote - So, if I make an image using something that I created, I can post in the regular galleries and say in the description, "blah blah product by Sixus1 available at Content Paradise"

Nope, in the regular galleries, you could only say something like "blah blah product by Sixus1" OR "blah blah product - CP"...something to that effect. It has been that way as long as I can remember, and that has not changed.

The only thing that has changed, is that outside vendors can no longer advertise their off site products here in the MarketPlace Gallery and Forum like they used to.

@Netherworks

Quote - II feel that if folks here believe that offsite product postings - in the Product Showcase or gallery - are really burying Renderosity Marketplace postings, why not just create a new forum for Offsite Product Postings (and even limit those to one per week per poster)?

It's not a bad idea..but I don't know if that will happen or not. I actually like the Forum idea...I can bring it to the team and see what happens..?

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Quote - @Netherworks

Quote - II feel that if folks here believe that offsite product postings - in the Product Showcase or gallery - are really burying Renderosity Marketplace postings, why not just create a new forum for Offsite Product Postings (and even limit those to one per week per poster)?

It's not a bad idea..but I don't know if that will happen or not. I actually like the Forum idea...I can bring it to the team and see what happens..?

Thanks! At least someone is listening and even if the team says "thumbs down" I appreciate the consideration.

Again you could even limit the number of Posts per week on an Offsite Product forum and you would have enough control that way to not overshadow the Marketplace forum. I think it's cool to see Steve Shanks poserworld posts and things new at DAZ and so on and taking myself out of the equation as a merchant, as a Renderosity end-user, I personally like to be able to see what's going on around the community inside of Renderosity. You're still getting folks coming HERE to see what the latest things are even if they do see an outside link... so what? The jump-point was Renderosity. It fosters good community and people will want to come back.

Machineclaw makes a good point and if you read between the lines, even with the most innocent of intentions, folks posting about a new thing at DAZ, for example, in the general forums (which is nothing more than a "Hey! This is cool!" post about something in the poserverse) is just as much advertising, even roundabout.

.

MC....that is not a advertisement by an offsite vendor in the MP Gallery or Forum...we never said nobody could mention anything about a product somewhere else in the regular forums.

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

Quote - Machineclaw makes a good point and if you read between the lines, even with the most innocent of intentions, folks posting about a new thing at DAZ, for example, in the general forums (which is nothing more than a "Hey! This is cool!" post about something in the poserverse) is just as much advertising, even roundabout.

Yes, I do see where that might get pretty darn confusing...and I do see where it can be seen as unintentional advertising......hrmmmm...give us a chance tho..we do want to make as many people happy as we can, and we do listen ;)

~Jani

Renderosity Community Admin
---------------------------------------

"Nope, in the regular galleries, you could only say something like "blah blah product by Sixus1" OR "blah blah product - CP"...something to that effect. It has been that way as long as I can remember, and that has not changed"

Soooo, I can't say that I made something and where it can be found ? But if I was using something that someone else made in an image, that is sold elsewhere....I can state both who made it and where it can be found ?

--Rebekah--

I would think the powers that be at Renderosity would want folks to come here to see what's new in the greater Poser community. Period. The whole thing seems silly to me. If DAZ has a new product I'm interested in, why, I'll have to go to the DAZ site to purchase that item. But if I LEARNED about that item at Renderosity that means my eyes were here. If the powers want to close themselves into a bubble I'll visit the site only as much as I visit other closed stores.

With the changes in the way the Web sites function or display my shopping/visiting has slowed. Count my posts since Renderosity changed their format this last time ... DAZ drives me crazy. Their store is annoying. Dire warnings about my outdated Internet Explorer and FLASH animation ... Can't finding anything without sifting through pages and pages. I don't even go to Content Paradise, although that's where I used to purchase RuntimeDNA stuff since their last big makeover.

The great thing about Renderostiy is it still functions well and it's the largest, most well informed, community in the Poser Verse. I should think that would be worth holding on to.

Best Wishes All,
Rªnce

As a regular customer I have to say that I feel very unhappy about this move. The product showcase forum was for me a place to visit to see what was new and especially outside renderosity (!). If I want to see what's new in the marketplace, I just click "what's new in the marketplace" and I do that on a daily base so I don't miss anything, besides that I'm getting the weekly newsletter by mail, with all the new and hot MP-produkts. And I regret to say this but a lot of it is the same as usual: some new clothes, some new characters or some new textures.
The real interesting things where always anounced in the product showcase, like wardrobewizard or clothingmorphkits, to call some.
If I now want see what's by the none-rendo vendors, I have to look at their own sites, but what's worse: new vendors are no longer allowed to announce their products here, so they won't have a change to market their products unless they sell it here (at a 50-50 base!)
I first said I understood why rendo made this move (some posts ago), but I was wrong: IMHO I don't think they won't sell anything more,

regards,

Bopper!

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

Quote - Soooo, I can't say that I made something and where it can be found ? But if I was using something that someone else made in an image, that is sold elsewhere....I can state both who made it and where it can be found ?

--Rebekah--

Right! But when you state who made it and where it can be found, you can't provide an html link to the item...just the name of the site.

So theoretically you could make a second user name, post your image and give your other user name credit. But you can't give yourself credit using the same user name.

This whole thing is so backwards that it's giving me a headache to even think about. What a screwy rule change.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Nobody except the creator that is. Which is quite discriminatory, yannow... and lends itself HIGHLY to deception.

Scenario 1:

Honest merchant A: I have a new product elsewhere, but I can't advertise it at Rendo. Oh, well.

Scenario 2:

Dishonest merchant B: I have a new product elsewhere. Hey, buddy, make a thread for me!
Buddy C: Of course! And make it not look like blatant advertising, right?
Dishonest merchant B: Of course! Now get on wit yer bad self!

The idea of an "Offsite Merchants" gallery or forum is the best one to date. Or you could actually learn what COMMUNITY means, and get rid of this rule. I closed my Rendo store last year about this time for more and more niggling little things. This alone would have made me close it.

Remember, kids! Napalm is Nature's Toothpaste!

I have to agree with Val... it seems every time I turn around, there's a new rule here... or a new charge... it's getting tougher and tougher to enjoy myself here at Rendo...

The constant niggling doesn't help the customers or merchants. And in the long run, it'll hurt the site and the store.

I sell here, at XXXXX and at XXXXX. I used to sell at XXXXX, before they closed. Some products are offered at more than one site, here and at a boutique store to help them get a leg up. I liked coming to Rendo and looking in the Product Showcase gallery to see EVERYTHING that was being offered in the Poserverse at one go. Now I go to XXXXX to do that.

These constant nit-picky rules make this less community oriented, and makes me feel less at home...

sigh

I very rarely post in the forums, but I am a long time Renderosity customer who has spent ridiculous amounts of money here for something that is just a hobby, and I am absolutely infuriated by this new rule. You (the management) have destroyed one of the most valuable assets of this web site. I used to come here on a daily basis to peruse the new products forum to see what was being announced from the community at large. Now all I see is what I could find by browsing the marketplace, which I did anyway - before I would browse the forums. I no longer have any good reason to come here on a daily basis, especially since I now have to visit a whole bunch of other sites directly to see what is new. That means I will spend less time browsing the RMP and more time on other merchants' sites which means less sales for you. Please rethink this rule, as it will only hurt Renderosity in the end both in terms of lost sales and unhappy customers like me.

Interestingly enough, DAZ still allows "advertising" as long as posts are tagged commercial. No wonder I'm hanging around their forums more these days...

I wanna see an admin answer what Anton said. Really, it could be very interesting. ;-)
Particularly this part:

Quote -
I understand why the store owners think this is all neccesary. I just am amazed so many, once community members, are willing to be apart of it. Is site mod or admin status that great? Many of you have been around long enough to see enough to see where this type of "bubble enviornment" leads.

I just find it a very disloyal gesture to people who have participated on the site for years, where others constribute nothing. I don't mean to judge you guys for backing all the recent policies, but I just can't help it. It seems wrong and insincere. And it is not going to help anyone, least of all Renderosity in the end.

Of course, I would have to point out that the "store owners" couldn't possibly be further detached from the idea of "community" as it relates to people. Community as a commodity, yes, that they understand well.
But ever since they magically discovered they owned this strange Poser thing 8 or so years ago, the Community aspect of it has slowly slid away.
And this new move is a perfect example of that. They are not even remotely concerned about any of what Anton pointed out. It's entirely a non issue, not even worth considering even in the remotely hypothetical possibility that it would even occur to the store owners in the first place that this might become a problem.

I can't answer the questions about the business decisions or the reasoning behind them but I can - speaking entirely for myself - answer questions about being part of Renderosity's staff.

This is how it is for me...

I'm a Moderator here because I like this place. I may not have been here the longest (almost 6 years) but I think I know a fair bit about Poser and art in general. I also happen to like people. And, believe it or not, I also happen to like this site.

Do I sit in a bubble away from you guys? Hell no, you'll see me posting here and acting the fool just like anyone else. Most of all, what I try to do is to help contribute toward the "excellent learning environment", as the blurb at the top of the page says. That and meet and greet the new folks and maybe give some good info and a few laughs along the way.

So, I try to do my bit for the community, specifically the members here. And you know what? All the other guys and gals feel the same, too.

Now, does that sound like someone sitting in a bubble away from you all?

My personal opinions about the business side of it all are... Last time I looked, I don't think Wal-Mart had any free adverts for Woolworth's (or whoever would be your appropriate Store of Choice).

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

In Holland a lot of stores has pinboards where customers can stick notes with their own announcements and advertising.

No bad feelings Sam, but I always thought that the forums and galleries had nothing to do with the marketplace, that's what this site gave its community feeling, in any case much more than a site like DAZ or Content Paradise. Poserpros had the same feeling untill it closed. I think the forums are still open, but the last time I was there it felt like an empty building.
But I think I have been wrong..

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

Comparing it to any relationship between Wal-Mart and Woolworth's is hardly even close to being the same thing. Not even in the same category by any stretch. I would agree, nobody should expect a store to advert for another store. But then again, there's no Wal-Mart Community or Woolworth's Community, far as I know. And if there is, I'm going to perma-block the URL's because that would all be just too weird. ;-)

Re-read what Anton wrote in its entirety carefully. It's nowhere near the same thing.

Having said that, we all know all you mods are cool. I doubt anyone would blame any of you guys for any of these kind of major decisions.
Not so sure how accessible the owners are to you guys now, but I did in fact have a good deal of experience in the past dealing with them. Even back then it was an exercise in head banging to try to suggest anything against their pre-conceived vision of the site. It was very very obvious what the priority was.
Nothing wrong with making money, nothing wrong with having a vision, but there's something somehow bizarre about continuing to do things which alienate a huge portion of your userbase while still calling it a "community".
With each and every new rule it feels less and less like a community, and that's a trend which has been building steadily.

Quote - My personal opinions about the business side of it all are... Last time I looked, I don't think Wal-Mart had any free adverts for Woolworth's (or whoever would be your appropriate Store of Choice).

The very nature of Renderosity along with many other Poser sites is that community and the markets go hand-in-hand, even if in some cases they are segregated. Real world retail stores really have very little community as we experience here - or at DAZ or what-have-you. At least I don't know of anyone in real life who's ever said to me "hey dude, we're all going to hang at wal-mart, you in?"

I think a better real-world analogy would be a pub or nightclub - places with strong senses of community and who also sell. And yes, I have seen bulletin boards in those places with wares offered at other places - you especially see that in medium to large cities in downtown areas.

.

Yeah, noone would expect Rendo or anyone to directly market other stores in the marketplace proper or in the newsletter. However, in saying that I must be a mutant because my last site newsletter I actually had an article on our Rendo store opening up, with links to the Rendo store, and though it was self-advertising, I still advertised for Renderosity. LOL!

But... thinking about it. Rendo actually does advertise for outside stores. Can you not buy advertising in the sidebar area?

.

Renderosity's largest strength over the years, where they realized it or not, is what founded it; that Renderosity has been the bridge between the roads to the rest of Poserdom.

Renderosity is mostly add-on for content core items sold/available elsewhere. What would happen if Daz sent every mil merchant an email asking them to move their mil content to the Artzone MarketPlace? Or if they simply ran a "Content Search" promotion looking to canvas Renderosity's top sellers?

With the revamp of Artzone, finally moving to a glossier-than-Renderosity format, this path of recent decision making is not wise. Do you think they would close Poser Pros without a plan in mind? Artzone is not using the term "marketplace" by coincidence. Does Renderosity really think Daz will not forcibly seek Renderosity's revenue share for their figures at some point? Now come on , see the forest through the trees.

If Daz ever moves to accept Renderosity's vast collection of merchant Mil content, Renderosity will not survive. For the same reasons people chose Renderosity over the Poser Forum online many years ago, people will choose Daz over Renderosity.

A better way is to re-focus all efforts on fortifying that role as the bridge to all of Poserdom/Dazopolis, fostering/repairing relationships with content creators on all sites. Make a commitemt to be a content creator friendly site that private boutique stores would happily recommend to those wanting to broker. Not everyone wants to run a brokerage.

Isn't it time to mend fences, not build walls.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

Quote - I very rarely post in the forums, but I am a long time Renderosity customer who has spent ridiculous amounts of money here for something that is just a hobby, and I am absolutely infuriated by this new rule. You (the management) have destroyed one of the most valuable assets of this web site. I used to come here on a daily basis to peruse the new products forum to see what was being announced from the community at large. Now all I see is what I could find by browsing the marketplace, which I did anyway - before I would browse the forums. I no longer have any good reason to come here on a daily basis, especially since I now have to visit a whole bunch of other sites directly to see what is new. That means I will spend less time browsing the RMP and more time on other merchants' sites which means less sales for you. Please rethink this rule, as it will only hurt Renderosity in the end both in terms of lost sales and unhappy customers like me.

I completely agree! Couldn't have said it better. Renderosity will quickly lose it's status as my main info center for what's going on in the community.

tomlin

I agree with Anton again. Daz has moved forewards, creating art zone's marketplace, that can accept product for character NOT sold at Daz. They are opening things up, and at the same time renderosity is closing things down.

I frequent here because the majority of informed users is here, and I have many freinds here.. but many are migating over to Daz's forums and groups, because of rendo's "grip tightening" over the last year or so.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Quote - I agree with Anton again. Daz has moved forewards, creating art zone's marketplace, that can accept product for character NOT sold at Daz. They are opening things up, and at the same time renderosity is closing things down.

I frequent here because the majority of informed users is here, and I have many freinds here.. but many are migating over to Daz's forums and groups, because of rendo's "grip tightening" over the last year or so.

And I agree with you once again.
LightWave people seem to have a better grip on reality for some reason. ;-)

Myself, I don't have any personal stake in it. I'm not a merchant and I rarely buy Poser stuff, but when I do, it's from DAZ. Just because I know there's going to be more quality check beyond it simply loading...
I just force myself to make what I want myself, and generally do without if I can't. Usually I succeed.

But my take on it is just that it's sad, almost, to see this once way-cool community slowly die as it has been trying to do for years now. God only knows what holds it all together, but with each and every new Policy, the glue becomes a little bit weaker.

Since this new rule about not allowing merchants to post their products and especially utilities for Poser, like Wardrobe Wizard, etc, I'm finding myself spending more time at other sites now to keep up with whats new than I use to spend at Rosity. Rosity use to be the first site I went to but now, it's the last place I visit, mainly because now I have to keep track of new stuff at all the other sites. MOst of the time I'd wait until a merchant posted a new item in the former Product Showcase forum before I'd go check it out but I can't to that now.

What 2 places banned off site adverts?............Steve

Quote - What 2 places banned off site adverts?............Steve

The former Product Showcase forum (now the Marketplace Forum) and the former Product Showcase Gallery (now the Marketplace Gallery).

Hey, how about all those Rosity banner ads other sites (that use to be able to post here) have on their websites advertising for Rosity? Wonder how many of those are going to disappear.

I meant what other sites, or did i get the wrong end of the stick?........Steve

>> Renderosity is mostly add-on for content core items sold/available elsewhere.

And there is the core problem with this policy. Heck, all of your Poser forum banners are using character meshes from otheir sites -- in all honesty, dont you think the folks from those other sites might think in retalitary terms and forbid you from using those banners as in-house ads for yourself? How long do you think merchants here would stay if DAZ issued a policy forbidding any reference to their product elsewhere than in their own fora?

The Walmart/Woolworths example might hold water if I didnt have the ability to open the first page of the Marketplace here and see nothing but V4 in various incarnations. You already are advertising products from other sites, because you have no choice but to.

Until someone here develops the base figures that will seriously compete with the DAZ line, you guys are at their mercy. From a business standpoint alone, it makes sense to rescind this policy now before you get too entrenched in it and cant pull it down.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Quote - >> Renderosity is mostly add-on for content core items sold/available elsewhere.

And there is the core problem with this policy. Heck, all of your Poser forum banners are using character meshes from otheir sites -- in all honesty, dont you think the folks from those other sites might think in retalitary terms and forbid you from using those banners as in-house ads for yourself? How long do you think merchants here would stay if DAZ issued a policy forbidding any reference to their product elsewhere than in their own fora?

Hey Sean, that's a very good point.

Quote - > Quote - >> Renderosity is mostly add-on for content core items sold/available elsewhere.

And there is the core problem with this policy. Heck, all of your Poser forum banners are using character meshes from otheir sites -- in all honesty, dont you think the folks from those other sites might think in retalitary terms and forbid you from using those banners as in-house ads for yourself? How long do you think merchants here would stay if DAZ issued a policy forbidding any reference to their product elsewhere than in their own fora?

Hey Sean, that's a very good point.

Just amplifying what Anton already said.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

What large offsite stores ban outside adverts?

RDNA - No offsite advertisement, period.

DAZ - No more than 1 advertisement per week, threads can (and are) removed at staff discretion even if they are only one advertisement per week

Content Paradise doesn't even have a place where offsite vendors can advertise.

The simple fact is this...if you go in there now, and look at all of the posts in there from before the policy change (many of which are STILL on the front page, so you don't have to dig far), a lot of them are advertising product from those 3 sites.

As for the community aspect...

Our local Borders store is pretty awesome when it comes to being a place to sit, meet people, have a conversation, talk about your favorite book, have a coffee, even host a meeting for your group (3 local pagan groups, a women's book club, a father's rights group, and many college groups meet there on a regular basis, for free if they don't advertise, for a small charge if they'd like to put up advertisements and/or sponsor a coupon for new members). However, I doubt, even as community minded as they are, they'd let Barnes & Noble advertise at their store. And I highly doubt they'd let authors advertise at their store that "Hey, I have this book, I'm selling it at Borders and at Barnes & Noble. It's $10.99 at Borders and $8.99 at B&N." And I'm pretty sure that "I have a book that's exclusive to B&N, check it out!" wouldn't fly.

In a way, a lot of the offsite advertisement was really taking advantage of the site, and not in a good way. Obviously, like any business, we want you folk to stay here to do your shopping. It keeps the lights on. It keeps the forums and the galleries going. Pays the bills. If people don't shop here, this site no longer exists, unless some of y'all want to just throw money at us for no apparent reason (welcome, obviously, but, unnecessary while we have a store. We'd rather earn it than just take it). Using site bandwidth to steer people to other sites is a huge loss-leader. If you'll look at the posts in the Marketplace Showcase, with the older posts, not many of them were going to smaller stores. They were almost all going to either DAZ, CP, or RDNA.

In our view, this is more of the fact that it's not fair to our merchants. Merchants here pay a percentage to the store for hosting and advertising. When offsite stores and merchants are able to do so for free, it really hurts THEM. Especially the non-exclusive and not top 50 merchants, who have lower exposure anyway. Not everyone can be top 50, because there are only 50 slots ;).

In the end, yeah, there are ways you can advertise on Renderosity without violating the TOS. Email marketing@Renderosity.com, and purchase ad space. Our merchants here pay for their advertising out of the cut they pay to Renderosity. It's only fair that offsite merchants pay for their advertising, too.

Jeni

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

So is there now (or shortly to be) a new policy on linking off-site items in response to queries in the forums ?

If it's not an advertisement, you're golden.

If someone says "Hey, I see a gadjillion V4 renders in the gallery, and I can't find it here, where do I find it?" of course you can tell them where. If someone says "Hey, where can I find barbarian-style weapons?", you can list all the packs you can find in our MP, RDNA, DAZ, CP, and any other little store you can find. **Even if you made it. **

What you can't do is post advertisements.

Are there going to be dishonest merchants who take advantage of that? Absolutely, I'm counting on it. Why? Because there are dishonest people. Are we hawk-eyed, and on the ready for it to happen from every merchant ever? No, because, on the whole, people are honest, and not looking to be jerks just for the sake of the almighty dollar. Is there going to be public persecution for it? We thought about letting Karen publicly spank the offenders and posting it on YouTube, but we figured that the videos would get pulled (totally kidding about that last one).

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Let me just say something here, off the top of my head.

The great thing about "Can you help me find this" threads are that at least 1/2 the answers contain links to freebies that, sometimes, are of more superior quality than the for-pay items. In my opinion, that is a push to demand quality from merchants, here and elsewhere. Light sets, props, hairs, textures.....members here know where to find things, and there is an insane variety in the things that are found by members. Some people have the few people they'll download/buy from, some people do a TON of research before settling on one thing, and that's a great thing. We view reviews from members, both on products here and elsewhere, on items to be important. IMHO, it's important for merchants to not just sell product, but also be a part of the community....participate in the forums, share the knowledge, look at what's wanted/needed, work on awesome ideas with members, etc. But, that's just an aside. We can't force merchants to come play on the forums any more than we can force an elephant into a toothpaste tube.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Attached Link: Content Creator's Guild

> Quote - > Quote - Since the thread was locked, I will ask here.... > > > > If I create an image using primarily figures that we've created, am I allowed to post here still ? Obviously not in the MarketPlace Gallery, but I've had images moved before that weren't promo images and they were moved to the (what was) Product Showcase Gallery..... > > > > Thanks, > > Rebekah > > > > Prior to this change anyone with a store anywhere was allowed to post in the "Product Showcase Forum" and "Product Showcase Gallery" advertising their wares. > > Now by the looks of that announcement you linked to, only Renderosity Merchants and their Renderosity MP products are allowed to be advertised in those areas. > > Anyone who doesn't have a store here at Renderosity can no longer post a link to their store advertising their new products or product sales, or indicate that their product is sold someplace else. > > Basically Renderosity has taken on a "Renderosity MP" exclusive policy when it comes to product advertising. Which means that those who do not sell in the Renderosity MP, can no longer post about their products sold in other stores on the Renderosity website, because the only 2 places where it was allowed no longer permits it.

This is one of the reasons why a few of us content creators got together to start Content Creator's Guild at http://www.contentcreatorsguild.net. This isnt affiliated with a brokerage - not intended to be a brokerage. You can post your releases on CCG freely.

Best regards,

chikako
Meshbox Design | 3D Models You Want

The Borders and bookstore Wal-Mart analogies might make sense if it weren't for the fact that their competitors are selling the exact same products that they are. I can buy the same book at Barnes and Noble as I can at Borders, so of course they won't advertise for each other.

However, your so called competitors are selling things that we can't buy here! So, the product showcase provided a valuable SERVICE to your customers by giving us a "one stop shop" to find things available here as well as things that ABSOLUTELY CAN'T be purchased here (99% of the time anyway). This is analogous to stores that have a bulletin board up near the front where businesses can put their cards or flyers advertising their products or services that are somehow related to the products you might purchase in that store. By allowing this, these stores are providing a FREE SERVICE to their customers which fosters good will. I frequent stores that do this more often since I can find other things I'm looking for without walking all around the city.

And if you are thinking in terms of me spending money elsewhere rather than here, that is simply ridiculous. Either a product here meets my needs or it doesn't. Same for the other vendors. Since the products aren't the same, you aren't losing anything from me if I buy something from another store. Sure, I might not buy something immediately if I spent my money for the week somewhere else, but your product will go into my wishlist and get purchased eventually if I really want it.

And to top it off, even in that 1% of cases where a product is available in more than one store, you guys take credit cards while most other vendors only accept PayPal, so you win by default with many of us who hate PayPal.

PLEASE rethink this policy. I really came to rely on the Product Showcase forum and what I see in there now is just depressing - hardly any new posts in several weeks. Why bother?

Looks like I found a new home at Content Creators Guild. Thanks for that. It is desperately needed by this community.

well, I, like many, came to the product showcase to see what was new...offsite for the most part.
Then I went ot the Marketplace and checked the What's New area to see what was new here. I can now skip the Market Showcase or whatever that's called totally, and the market gallery.

NOW...where are we Poser users going to find all the new stuff from the other vendors? Wander around the Poserverse surfing a hundred sites a day?

NO...we now need a site to host a forum that will allow the small vendors and larger stores to show off their new and upcoming creations. A forum just like the one they are shut out of here at Rendo.
Who knows, it could even be a better place to advertise your wares.

I have the web space available. The new site can be called Poserverse Product Showcase. You vendors might as well join in....there's hardly anywhere else to be seen all in one place. Hell, I'll even allow Renderosity merchants to show their stuff there, all in the interest of promoting the community spirit we all love.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

well isn't that interesting..while I was typing away, up pops a site just for this purpose.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

>> However, I doubt, even as community minded as they are, they'd let Barnes & Noble advertise at their store.

While I agree with what you're saying, Jen -- and I do, honestly -- I cant help but feel that this going to create even more of a fragmented "merchant/buyer" mentality than we already have on the various sites, just amplified by the fact that now the advertising has to be site-specific. That, coupled with Rosity's almost complete dependence, in some respects, with products from another site, just makes the whole thing... well, a bit xenophobic.

True, Borders wouldnt let B&N advertise there, but the comparison falls apart when you acknowledge that Borders doesnt have anything that requires a prior purchase from B&N. It's self-standing. Without V4 et al, the marketplace here would be roughtly a tenth, maybe a twentieth, of what it is now, if that.

Just my 0.02. As I said, I agree with what you're saying. I just dont think it's the wisest course of action.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Borders is a nice place... but I prefer Powells... Here in Portland, they have a big bulletin board where you can post advertisements for anything... including what Powells sells.

When I've released a product in the past, I posted notices at Daz, PoserPro's, and here at Renderosity. These products have been for Daz, PoserPro's, RawArt3D, and... wait for it... Renderosity. I've never had a post taken down at any site. I've never had anyone complain, either the store management or staff.

Now, if I have a Renderosity product, I fell like I won't be able to post at other sites.. not because they ban off store advertising, but because it would be unfair, since I can't post HERE about things from other sites. So this isn't just holding me back here, it's also going to hold me back on my Renderosity product advertising.

There's two ways a store can go when they face new competition... they can close up, make new rules, and try to keep their current base by limiting contact with other stores.... Or they can open up, be MORE friendly, relax the inhibiting rules, and become the nice place to shop and go to. They can make it more attractive for vendors to sell there, and for customers to feel at home...

I do have a question though... if I were to make a supporting product for someone else's item at another store, like a texture set for some Daz clothing, does this mean I can't post a link to the original product in the Merchant's showcase? I'd want their sales to increase, since it would mean that MINE would increase here.

I don't make much, either in cash or the number of products. I choose where I'll release something by what figure it's for, the type of product, or the product it supports. These new limits make it much less attractive to try to sell here, and I think other vendors feel the same way.

Interesting indeed...

/P

Quote - The Borders and bookstore Wal-Mart analogies might make sense if it weren't for the fact that their competitors are selling the exact same products that they are. I can buy the same book at Barnes and Noble as I can at Borders, so of course they won't advertise for each other.

However, your so called competitors are selling things that we can't buy here! So, the product showcase provided a valuable SERVICE to your customers by giving us a "one stop shop" to find things available here as well as things that ABSOLUTELY CAN'T be purchased here (99% of the time anyway). This is analogous to stores that have a bulletin board up near the front where businesses can put their cards or flyers advertising their products or services that are somehow related to the products you might purchase in that store. By allowing this, these stores are providing a FREE SERVICE to their customers which fosters good will. I frequent stores that do this more often since I can find other things I'm looking for without walking all around the city.

And if you are thinking in terms of me spending money elsewhere rather than here, that is simply ridiculous. Either a product here meets my needs or it doesn't. Same for the other vendors. Since the products aren't the same, you aren't losing anything from me if I buy something from another store. Sure, I might not buy something immediately if I spent my money for the week somewhere else, but your product will go into my wishlist and get purchased eventually if I really want it.

And to top it off, even in that 1% of cases where a product is available in more than one store, you guys take credit cards while most other vendors only accept PayPal, so you win by default with many of us who hate PayPal.

PLEASE rethink this policy. I really came to rely on the Product Showcase forum and what I see in there now is just depressing - hardly any new posts in several weeks. Why bother?

I understand what you're saying, but in the end, having the Marketplace Showcase open to offsite vendors hurts Renderosity vendors more than it helps. That is one of the main reason for the change.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

For anyone interested with my original question.....here is the answer

-----Original Message-----
From: sixus1
Sent: 2008-03-29 19:13:40
Subject: RE: Your question in the Poser forum

Okay, I think that I see what you are saying...

I can post in the regular galleries...but I can't say anything really about any products that I've used in it that are mine....except for blah blah by Sixus1 from Content Paradise (which is not a URL so it is okay).
**
Wether something is considered promotional is actually rather up to the mods though....because even if I don't put the name of the product all over it or anything...if it focuses too much on it....someone will say that it is promotional ?
**

-----Original Message-----
From: Jumpstartme2
Sent: 2008-03-29 19:21:39
Subject: RE: Your question in the Poser forum

Yep, you got it ;)

Alot of it is like I stated in that thread, where sometimes something could be seen as promotional, when it was unintentional, or unrealized. We'd take things like that on a case by case basis.

Quote - >> However, I doubt, even as community minded as they are, they'd let Barnes & Noble advertise at their store.

While I agree with what you're saying, Jen -- and I do, honestly -- I cant help but feel that this going to create even more of a fragmented "merchant/buyer" mentality than we already have on the various sites, just amplified by the fact that now the advertising has to be site-specific. That, coupled with Rosity's almost complete dependence, in some respects, with products from another site, just makes the whole thing... well, a bit xenophobic.

True, Borders wouldnt let B&N advertise there, but the comparison falls apart when you acknowledge that Borders doesnt have anything that requires a prior purchase from B&N. It's self-standing. Without V4 et al, the marketplace here would be roughtly a tenth, maybe a twentieth, of what it is now, if that.

Just my 0.02. As I said, I agree with what you're saying. I just dont think it's the wisest course of action.

That is true, Sean, that without sites like DAZ and Content Paradise for figures, our MP would have no existence. We're not saying "You can't advertise that your product is for X figure at X site if you sell with us" because, frankly, that would be dumb. If I make a character set for V4 and want to sell it here, it behooves me to link to the V4 product page to say "Here's where you can get the base figure to use my character on". That's just good customer service, and that is still allowed. IMHO, it should be encouraged, both by us on staff and by customers.

As for the merchant/buyer mentality....it's been so long that we all have had that...that's not going to change, Sean. However, in that sort of market, the buyer has ALL of the power. The power to say "You know what, that's not the quality I want, I can get it elsewhere." The power to say "I can get a better, similar product for free, why should I pay your asking price?" And that's what is important. There are still a LOT of generous freestuff providers that create amazing products for free. For instance, there are a LOT of people who look at the whole M4 figure and think "Hmmm...I can get Apollo, which already has awesome features, for free. Give me something amazing, or I'm not paying." And there are still others who equate quality with the amount of cash they have to give up.

As long as there is money to be made, there will be that merchant/buyer mentality.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - Borders is a nice place... but I prefer Powells... Here in Portland, they have a big bulletin board where you can post advertisements for anything... including what Powells sells.

When I've released a product in the past, I posted notices at Daz, PoserPro's, and here at Renderosity. These products have been for Daz, PoserPro's, RawArt3D, and... wait for it... Renderosity. I've never had a post taken down at any site. I've never had anyone complain, either the store management or staff.

Now, if I have a Renderosity product, I fell like I won't be able to post at other sites.. not because they ban off store advertising, but because it would be unfair, since I can't post HERE about things from other sites. So this isn't just holding me back here, it's also going to hold me back on my Renderosity product advertising.

There's two ways a store can go when they face new competition... they can close up, make new rules, and try to keep their current base by limiting contact with other stores.... Or they can open up, be MORE friendly, relax the inhibiting rules, and become the nice place to shop and go to. They can make it more attractive for vendors to sell there, and for customers to feel at home...

I do have a question though... if I were to make a supporting product for someone else's item at another store, like a texture set for some Daz clothing, does this mean I can't post a link to the original product in the Merchant's showcase? I'd want their sales to increase, since it would mean that MINE would increase here.

I don't make much, either in cash or the number of products. I choose where I'll release something by what figure it's for, the type of product, or the product it supports. These new limits make it much less attractive to try to sell here, and I think other vendors feel the same way.

I completely see what you're saying, and I understand why you don't get your posts restricted, as well. You release your products few and far between, and you're a modeller. It takes longer to model than to create textures or light setups. This isn't a jab or meant as one, because I completely have LOADS of respect for anyone that can model anything that looks like what it's supposed to be. It takes a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time to get it right.
The fact is this...many merchants ARE being restricted at where they can post. DAZ has changed its' forum advertising policy to 1 advertisement per week. In cases where merchants work in batches, which are a lot of them, this can hurt their advertisement possibility. As I stated before, RDNA and CP don't even offer offsite merchants a chance to advertise their wares. (And, quite frankly, if you check out the Marketplace Showcase forum, products sold there were the two biggest stores advertised there. Not DAZ, not Rendo, RDNA and CP.) Poser Pros is no longer a functional store (the forums still work, right?), and ArtZone is much too massive at the moment to be used as a functional advertising device. Maybe once it's truly streamlined, it'll be easier to use for BOTH merchants and buyers. At the moment, the best they can offer are forums and groups...which are hard to navigate for a lot of people who are used to the PHP style forum.
The fact is, we're the last of the large sites to create any kind of restrictions on advertisements. We didn't do it solely for our bottom line. Like I've said, it's really not fair to the vendors here who work hard on their product and get LESS free advertisement AT THE SITE THEY'RE SELLING ON than other sites are getting at the same site. Especially when many of those brokers don't allow a reciprocating advertisement.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - Interesting indeed...

/P

It is, isn't it?
Never a dull moment around here.

Quote -
I understand what you're saying, but in the end, having the Marketplace Showcase open to offsite vendors hurts Renderosity vendors more than it helps. That is one of the main reason for the change.

Meh - I honestly don't think its perils outweigh the benefits. Sure, a sale here or there will go somewhere else, but if a reciprocal arrangement is made? Basically state up-front that if you post an external link here, then that linked site must have links point back to the RMP. I can almost guarantee you that the smaller sites will see more sales driven towards the RMP than vice-versa.

Expanded beyond our little world, history and economics have shown that protectionism is crap in the long-run, and only serves to stifle.

/P

Quote - > Quote - Interesting indeed...

/P

It is, isn't it?
Never a dull moment around here.

Nope... kinda makes it fun on a quiet Sunday morning (in-between compilations, normal maintenance, and suchlike...)

/P

Jen,

You went from one of the most open and friendly policies, to one of the most restrictive. If Daz allows a post a week, why can't the 'sity do them one better and allow 2?

Is there any room for compromise here? Pengy, as always, makes a good point too. What every happened to reciprocal arrangements?

They won't listen to anyone, but themselves. If it's Rendo's time to sink, let it sink then. I swear I don't know why we bother. Perhaps out of nostalgia.

-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

Over 100,000 Downloads....

To quote Spock, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

The needs of the entire community that visits here outweigh the needs of the vendors, or the Rendo management staff.

You can either have a close site, and drive people away (as has been done in the past) or instead try to encourage and increase the traffic here as much as possible.

The decrease in traffic will probably outweigh the small benifits gained to vendors here.

Example: Do you think my advertising my Deadcorn sets here hurt any rendo vendors at all? There's nothing like that here.

Example: Do you think that netherwork's Scarebear ads here hurt any vendors here? There is nothing here that competes with them.

Example: Do you think my posts about FROSTY hurt any vendors here? There's isn't a snowman anything like him here.

People will buy quality products wherever they are located, and most people visit the product showcase to see what's being released everywhere.. we can visit the store here to see what's new there.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Quote - To quote Spock, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

The needs of the entire community that visits here outweigh the needs of the vendors, or the Rendo management staff.

You can either have a close site, and drive people away (as has been done in the past) or instead try to encourage and increase the traffic here as much as possible.

The decrease in traffic will probably outweigh the small benifits gained to vendors here.

Example: Do you think my advertising my Deadcorn sets here hurt any rendo vendors at all? There's nothing like that here.

Example: Do you think that netherwork's Scarebear ads here hurt any vendors here? There is nothing here that competes with them.

Example: Do you think my posts about FROSTY hurt any vendors here? There's isn't a snowman anything like him here.

People will buy quality products wherever they are located, and most people visit the product showcase to see what's being released everywhere.. we can visit the store here to see what's new there.

There are many more that could be added to that list.

Quote - > Quote -

I understand what you're saying, but in the end, having the Marketplace Showcase open to offsite vendors hurts Renderosity vendors more than it helps. That is one of the main reason for the change.

Meh - I honestly don't think its perils outweigh the benefits. Sure, a sale here or there will go somewhere else, but if a reciprocal arrangement is made? Basically state up-front that if you post an external link here, then that linked site must have links point back to the RMP. I can almost guarantee you that the smaller sites will see more sales driven towards the RMP than vice-versa.

Expanded beyond our little world, history and economics have shown that protectionism is crap in the long-run, and only serves to stifle.

/P

If these stores were brick-and-mortar, these policies would be in place long ago. Walmart wouldn't allow Kraft to go into their store and advertise something that they only have for sale at Albertson's.
The poser community hasn't ever been a utopia. It's never going to be. No site with more than one person participating is ever constantly harmonious for everyone involved.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - Jen,

You went from one of the most open and friendly policies, to one of the most restrictive. If Daz allows a post a week, why can't the 'sity do them one better and allow 2?

Is there any room for compromise here? Pengy, as always, makes a good point too. What every happened to reciprocal arrangements?

I can bring it up with the store admin. I can't guarantee that it'll be changed, but well, we can see :)

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

A great many people visit this site for much more than the Marketplace - information being one of the many things people like to get when they come here. All you're doing is cutting off one more source of information to your visitors, and forcing them to go to sites like DAZ where they can find out what's new beyond the borders of the site.

It's a foolish move which can only hurt Renderosity, the users and the community at large. If DAZ decide to retaliate by instituting a similar poilcy, that will hurt Rosity too. Although frankly, I don't think DAZ are so narrow-minded.

And re the DAZ '1 commercial post a week' policy - It's in the TOS to prevent spamming and flooding the forums with commercial posts. Not only that, it applies to DAZ PAs who sell their content there too. It isn't just for products at other sites. I think it's a sensible policy. Who really needs to post more than once a week for new products? Apart from spammers, no one, I think.

mac

Quote - To quote Spock, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

The needs of the entire community that visits here outweigh the needs of the vendors, or the Rendo management staff.

You can either have a close site, and drive people away (as has been done in the past) or instead try to encourage and increase the traffic here as much as possible.

The decrease in traffic will probably outweigh the small benifits gained to vendors here.

Example: Do you think my advertising my Deadcorn sets here hurt any rendo vendors at all? There's nothing like that here.

Example: Do you think that netherwork's Scarebear ads here hurt any vendors here? There is nothing here that competes with them.

Example: Do you think my posts about FROSTY hurt any vendors here? There's isn't a snowman anything like him here.

People will buy quality products wherever they are located, and most people visit the product showcase to see what's being released everywhere.. we can visit the store here to see what's new there.

You're missing the point entirely.

When a full page worth of advertising of off-site products drown out advertisements for products sold here, then YES. It DOES hurt the advertising for a product here, whether it's a competing product or not. What you're not getting is that it's not the product that's competing; It's the ad space that was previously given for free. Renderosity vendors have to pay for WORSE advertising than what others were getting for free. And, what's worse is Renderosity vendors are even paying for that free advertising for those other ads!!

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - They won't listen to anyone, but themselves. If it's Rendo's time to sink, let it sink then. I swear I don't know why we bother. Perhaps out of nostalgia.

Nostalgia, yeah, pretty much. At least that's my reason for continuing to visit.

I've been here for a long time. I use the site like a lot of us do..to see what's being developed, comraderire(sp), etc etc. It is nostalgic to continue on with a site that has, or had , been in the forefront of Poser developement for such a long time, pretty much since the beginning. Over the years, and especially in the last few, the reins have been tightened and the place has slowly been going away from the community spirit that was prevelant before.

This move is just another stop along that path. I do not buy all that much stuff from here anyway, although what I do see are alternatives to the norm..not from here so much, as from the other vendors that advertise here in the Product Showcase.... Renderosity has an overrifding glut of V4 textures, short dresses, and all that stuff, mostly looking pretty much the same, and a marketplace filled with, quite frankly, crap...and tons of it. Even an elephant shovel couldn't get rid of most of it.

What the outside vendors bring to the table in many cases, are products that can be added to or upon, by the vendors that are here on Renderosity. The outside vendors keep the party interesting.

This is the biggest marketing mistake in the history of the Poserverse, in my opinion...as a long time member of this site.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Quote -
If these stores were brick-and-mortar, these policies would be in place long ago. Walmart wouldn't allow Kraft to go into their store and advertise something that they only have for sale at Albertson's.

Err, what?

Jen... Sean actually nailed it - I can buy the same Kraft product at WalMart, Albertson's, Fred Meyer... your point is pretty much a (albeit unintentional) strawman argument when it comes to Poserdom.

Let's modify it to a more relevant example: WalMart and other retailers apparently have zero problems with allowing employees and managers direct you to other stores by name if they don't have what you're looking for. Why does Renderosity suddenly have a problem with this?

This isn't an isolated incident, either - breaking ties with Content Paradise stands out among other indicators.

Seriously - when I find myself agreeing with Anton and Sean Martin in this thread, maybe somebody in the PTB should reconsider their motives here?

/P

Quote - [
You're missing the point entirely.

When a full page worth of advertising of off-site products drown out advertisements for products sold here, then YES. It DOES hurt the advertising for a product here, whether it's a competing product or not. What you're not getting is that it's not the product that's competing; It's the ad space that was previously given for free. Renderosity vendors have to pay for WORSE advertising than what others were getting for free. And, what's worse is Renderosity vendors are even paying for that free advertising for those other ads!!

No, the reverse is actually true - Renderosity merchants can STILL advertise (within reason) for FREE at sites such as DAZ, paid for by DAZ Merchants, while DAZ (and other) PAs can no longer spread the word about their products here... So, under your current scheme, these other merchants/PAs are actually subsidizing Renderosity... I would posit that DAZ (for example, as the highest-volume site) is thereby subsidizing Renderosity merchants much more than the opposite.

...and the fact that independent CUSTOMERS used to browse both the Product Showcase Gallery and Forum here ENSURED that Renderosity merchants/products would be visible, even if the viewer's original reason for visiting was to learn about products elsewhere in the community - at least the eyeballs were on THIS site for a while... Under the new regime, there is no reason to visit the Marketplace forum at all - a quick scan of the RMP front page provides much more 'visible' concise product information, more quickly than clicking individual forum threads...

Respectfully, I think that driving wedges between the various sites will hurt ALL of the sites, but MOSTLY the sites that specialize in add-ons, such as textures, characters, and props... such as Renderosity itself.

>> However, in that sort of market, the buyer has ALL of the power. The power to say "You know what, that's not the quality I want, I can get it elsewhere." The power to say "I can get a better, similar product for free, why should I pay your asking price?" And that's what is important.

Well, frankly, that should be a clue right there, that the Rosity MP has to compete a little better in the marketplace. If the buyer has all the power, why set in place something that's just gonna annoy him/her by frustrating him/her at every turn? And building walls and slamming doors shut aint the way to do it, because you guys all need each other too much. Part of this comes from letting DAZ take the lead in the first place, but unless you have something comparable, then you're pretty well stuck with products that require that DAZ pre-sale... and unless you're being open to allowing people to see what's available at DAZ, by whatever means, then this truly is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I understand thw quandry you guys are facing, but this is not the answer to it. Create a separate showcase if you must and put some restrictions there on what can be posted and at what frequency. But unless you're prepared to be a completely stand-alone operation, what you're proposing is marketplace suicide.

As usual, just my 0.02. But this is such Marketing 101...

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Quote - Part of this comes from letting DAZ take the lead in the first place, but unless you have something comparable, then you're pretty well stuck with products that require that DAZ pre-sale...

As a side note, I think that Renderosity once tried (then hastily aborted) a stand-alone figure... "Renda" I think it was called. I wonder why it never returned... Sapphire Fox Hair still has a fit for it, but otherwise Google pretty much comes up dry.

People who build walls usually think it's a good idea.

I imagine the people who built the Berlin Wall thought it was a good idea at the time too.

mac

Quote -
I understand what you're saying, but in the end, having the Marketplace Showcase open to offsite vendors hurts Renderosity vendors more than it helps. That is one of the main reason for the change.

Really? How has it hurt Renderosity vendors? Do you have numbers to back up that claim?

Although I can't provide numbers to the contrary, I can honestly say that it in my case it has HELPED Renderosity vendors. There have been several instances where a third party vendor advertised a texture set for some product here in the RMP that caused me to buy the RMP product that I otherwise thought looked like crap. Similarly, I have purchased texture sets here for meshes that were advertised in the product showcase for other sites.

So many of the products here depend on or are depended on by products in other stores. You really are cutting off your nose to spite your face with this new policy.

I can almost understand you not paying attention to your merchants - that seems to be a theme in all too many of the stores, so you figure you can get away with it. But I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor am I likely to ever be a merchant. I am a Renderosity CUSTOMER, and I am seriously ticked off over this. Note to merchants: If you want my business from now on, please sell somewhere other than Renderosity. This place obviously could care less about their customers. I am not likely to make any further purchases here unless I desperately need something for a project and I can't find something similar anywhere else - and even then I will think twice before giving any more of my money to this place.

Thanks Renderosity admins, moderators and other authorities for completely ruining one of the best sites in Poserdom. I have bought more stuff here than than any other site by a long shot - but that is about to change thanks to this ridiculous new policy. Now that I am forced to visit these other sites directly on a regular basis, I have found lots of cool stuff I never knew existed. I guess I'll be spending my money there instead.

*Quote:'Like I've said, it's really not fair to the vendors here who work hard on their product and get LESS free advertisement AT THE SITE THEY'RE SELLING ON than other sites are getting at the same site. Especially when many of those brokers don't allow a reciprocating advertisement'

When this policy was first being considered I agreed with it for the same reason that Jen stated above. But after reading all the posts in opposition to it I wonder if Renderosity couldn't work out some sort of compromise that would benefit everyone to some degree.

A separate showcase forum for off-site products seems like a decent proposal. Renderosity would benefit by continuing to be a hub of product info and the vendors here wouldn't have their own product advertisement buried by the off-site vendors.

Reciprocity in the advertising policy of the other sites is definitely an issue though and I don't know how that can be addressed here - or even if it should be addressed as others have already stated.

Rick

Quote -
DAZ - No more than 1 advertisement per week, threads can (and are) removed at staff discretion even if they are only one advertisement per week
Jeni

Sorry Jen, I will take issue with the second part of this statement. Yes the DAZ forums have a limit of one advertisement per week, (and that applies to any merchant, DAZ PA's included, there is no discrimination) but we have never removed a promotion that did not break the TOS, Not once. And the one advertisement per week is also allowed in the the highest read forum on our site.

Presumably this new policy also means your going to sanitise forum signatures ?

This is a difficult and sticky situation, and folks have probably already commented similar to what I'm about to say ...

Many products sold in the RMP rely on products made at other sites. So, whether one likes it or not, those products are going to appear in the promos made for the RMP products. Then the question becomes "Where is that available?" That in itself will drive RMP customers off the site, so truthfully I don't see how this change regarding 3rd party promos is going to make a lot of difference in that regard. Any way you look at it, customers are still going to be going offsite to get the products that are associated with RMP products.

Unless, of course, the eventual intent is to have RMP merchants only create content for RMP products. That sure doesn't seem like a feasible goal, though, without RMP also carrying original figures. Whether Rendo likes it or not, they have to embrace the fact that their marketplace revolves around products sold at other sites.

Bla,bla When i go to the gallery i am not looking to buy products,i want to see what people made.There are plenty of places here to advertisz your products here. Adding credits for products used is fine, If i see something i might want i can search it, just dont use links to an outside store or anywhere else.Is it really that hard?

I am glad they have limits on advertising,or else this place would be flooded with advertising worse then it is now

Jack Of All Trades Master Of None

You, err, may want to read a bit more, Stan... this little kerfuffle involves an ad-specific portion of the site. ;)

/P

Well I am a vendor here & I think the policy is silly. I think the policy will do more harm than good & will drive people off site rather than keep them here.

Look at these senarios

Old Habits - I am browsing the Product Showcase Forum see a similar product from store X & one from Rendo, ok am already here at rendo, so I may as well get this one.

New Habits - Am browsing off site at store X cause I can no longer see offsite products here, see a product I like & purchase it there, come to Rendo & see a similar product here, ohh well have already purchased at store X.

The best & most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen nor touched... but felt in the heart.

Helen Keller

My Gallery My Freebies My Store

Quote - > Quote -

I understand what you're saying, but in the end, having the Marketplace Showcase open to offsite vendors hurts Renderosity vendors more than it helps. That is one of the main reason for the change.

Meh - I honestly don't think its perils outweigh the benefits. Sure, a sale here or there will go somewhere else, but if a reciprocal arrangement is made? Basically state up-front that if you post an external link here, then that linked site must have links point back to the RMP. I can almost guarantee you that the smaller sites will see more sales driven towards the RMP than vice-versa.

Expanded beyond our little world, history and economics have shown that protectionism is crap in the long-run, and only serves to stifle.

/P

I have to completely agree here and I would welcome a reciprocal arrangement. Many, if not all, of my products are going to wind up in the Rendo marketplace anyways because I feel that customers need choices to shop at. Some are comfortable buying here, some at CP, some at my site shoppe. I would have zero issue linking back to rendo or running banners for Rendo at my shoppe. It fosters community and I think that's important. I've also extended that to ANYONE who runs another shop - I'll gladly do a merchant exchange with you - banner for banner with reciprocal links.

Anyways, I guess I'm just community oriented and I don't truly feel that any of the real-world comparisons hold too much water. Digital product is much different from tangible goods and the costs and real estate requirements for businesses housed in concrete are much different from online shops with digital downloads.

But hey, if folks don't agree ... that's fine. No worries here. I can hang out a bit more at the other sites and promote where allowed. I do like coming here though. There is a wealth of information and some really nice folks around, even if we don't always see eye-to-eye. :) Doesn't matter.... I've grown a pretty thick shell.

.

I have one word for this policy. Horseshit. or is that two words? lol

Quote - I have one word for this policy. Horseshit. or is that two words? lol

I think it's just one word here the way you used it. You could call it horse shit, but that seems to not have the same impact when the words are separated like that.
Although I think "bullshit" would have been equally applicable. ;-)

My father always refered the the feces of the pig when he was especially digusted. I asked why once, and he said it was much worse, since it smelled more and tended to be slimier...

However, that's not here nor there...

Jen, any word of a compromise?

Guess I'll soon be kicked out because of my signature and avatar.

In my opinion, this is a bad and shortsighted decision that will come back to bite Renderosity on the corporate buttocks. However, Renderosity is domiciled in the free-market, capitalist United States where the site owners are free to do what they wish with their own site. Even if it is dumb!

If this comes back to bite Rendo on its corporate behind I shall take great pleasure in saying 'I told you so.' But then I'm nasty like that :)

4/1/08

Mary, Mary, quite contrary,
How does your garden grow?
With silver bells, and cockle shells,
And pretty maids all in a row.

Cute April Fool's Day joke ( I was mildly amused). Among other things, April Fool's day reminds us that foolisness does not have to be perminant. Now, if only the Renderosity would proclaim recent poor decisions an April Fool's joke, and roll them back? One can only hope.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

**
** ***The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

―Princess Leia to Grand Moff Tarkin***

Quote - Now, if only the Renderosity would proclaim recent poor decisions an April Fool's joke, and roll them back? One can only hope.

LMK

Oh, haven't you figured out that they are ALWAYS right and make the RIGHT decisions and everyone else is WRONG and don't know what we are talking about.

Quote - When a full page worth of advertising of off-site products drown out advertisements for products sold here, then YES. [quote/]

LOL, anyone checked the usage in the Marketplace Showcase forum lately, like since this rules was started? It's sure not getting much use now, almost like wasted space. Vendors here never have advertised very much in that forum and they sure aren't now. Only a couple have done so but they used it before this rule.

Quote -
Now, if only the Renderosity would proclaim recent poor decisions an April Fool's joke, and roll them back? One can only hope.

That might work for now, but what would they do about the rest of the year's bad decisions? ;-)

I think it might be time for some additional quality control measures, guys ... if your merchants products aren't getting enough visibility, then maybe you're taking in way too many of them.

People will notice a product more easily if it is high in quality, and not lumped in with 20 other releases in the same day.

Quote -
People will notice a product more easily if it is high in quality, and not lumped in with 20 other releases in the same day.

That's always been the problem here. You could make a six-faceted cube with no UV map and just a default surface and get it in the MP.
Pretty much anyone can get anything in here. Far as I know, the only quality control is that an object "works", meaning that it loads into Poser without too many error messages.
And since everyone knows there's no real trick to getting just any lame crap into the MP here, everyone wants to give it a shot.
They ought to do more like DAZ does, but that would probably seriously impact their sales....
Well, you'd think the largest Poser site would also be interested in having the highest quality, wouldn't you? that is, if it's even about quality, which I'm figuring it's not.
It's about quantity, volume, sales. Money.
Oh well, it's the money that's most important. Wouldn't want to put forth that effort and build up a site which can also boast the highest quality, now, would we...

It also benefits the merchant, really ... if a product is sent back for improvement, it only creates a better product that has the potential of selling better. And it improves the merchant's skills.

I agree 100% with you.
Heh. Ever seen any of those posts which happen from time to time here from someone who just got Poser, has no idea about anything, but wants to know where to find out how to make stuff to sell? ;-)

*Quote: You could make a six-faceted cube with no UV map and just a default surface and get it in the MP.

Wow, a cube with all six sides. Seriously, I would love to get one of those ... but only if it's a really good cube :)

Rick

I'd just give you one, but I save all my best cubes for myself. Sorry about that. ;-)

Heh heh ... I understand :)

I have a great sphere, a decent cylinder, a so-so cone, a terrific pyramid and even a fantastic torus but going without a good cube is kinda like paddling upstream .. ya know :)

Hmmmm, a couple of thoughts...

I say more talk about the phrasing and spelling of horseshit is needed, if there is anything I hate...it's the poor and improper use of cursing. Learn to cuss, is that so hard?
One word though, without a doubt.
I agree with the need for some control on the quality of content that is being accepted. Deecee is right on, it improves the merchant and the customer gets a better product. I think it also says something to the customer about the site.
Though not encouraged by recent site decisions, I can only hope that there is some movement elsewhere, that we are not aware of, that will make sense later on.
Now the phrasing is very important. If I say Horseshit with a quick cadence, then this would be appropriately used when angry or highly agitated. If you say Horse-shit in a slow cadence, as two words, then this would be appropriately used when talking down to ones minions, condenscending, with malice, word often interjected during the course of a 10 minute shout down.

Just my dos cervantos

Comitted to excellence through art.

The simple answer is that somebody needs to start a centralized "announcement site" that allows the submission of new item announcements from any shop in poserdom.

This would be a one stop location for new product announcements and would be outside of the reach of those intent on starting a civil war in the poser market.

The site would sell nothing, so it would need to be fueled by ad sales. It could possibly include a user review or product star system.

Problem solved.

Maybe we can pour some cold water on this fire and stop the civil war before it gets started!

Well, Daz aready allows that, and AZ has groups that could be created to function something like that.

A freebie group could also possibly be started.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Ahah! There's Content Creators Guild - open to all. http://www.contentcreatorsguild.net/

.

ya see...no one took me seriously about starting up an advertising forum site.
the Guild is ok...but is it a store?

Otherwise, I'm solicitng takers for my offer...think of an appropriate name and I'll volunteer my web space...for a bit...but then it will be el cheapo fee for ads...free in the forum...
sounds good to me.

but even if its not me...its a great idea. should have been one before anyway. And the reviews would be good too.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Quote - Ahah! There's Content Creators Guild - open to all. http://www.contentcreatorsguild.net/

Dang Netherworks, you bet me to it.

Dave-so, I have nothing to do with it's creation, but I think it's pretty new. I couldn't even find it by googling it. So it's going to take some time and support to mature and grow. :)

cherokee69, you prolly should have posted about it. I guess I tend to stir the pot a bit too much from time to time. Oh well, hehe.

.

Geeze! All this rukus about nothing really! It was stated early on you could say Such and Such Product made by So and So over at Such a Place. You Just Can't LINK to it! Sheesh! Anyone who hangs around any online forum long enough is going to find those other sites. And Google is your friend! Frankly, I hate commercials on TV and the web equally. Venders can still advertise their wares here, they just can't create a traffic link. All they have to do is post about it though and people can PM them for a direct link. Pheh! Much adeu about nothing if you ask me.

LostinSpaceman,

Evidently, you haven't read the post in the Marketplace Showcase forum: www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php

"We here at Renderosity are always looking to maintain a professional atmosphere that will ultimately benefit everyone within our growing community. Doing that requires making the appropriate adjustments to keep in stride with the rest of the industry.

Effective immediately, the Product Showcase Forum will be renamed the MarketPlace Showcase Forum, and the Product Showcase Gallery will be renamed the MarketPlace Showcase Gallery. Only items that are found in the Renderosity MarketPlace will be shown in either area. Any new posts or gallery images regarding outside content will be removed.

What does this mean for you? It means you can be assured that any product you get via the MarketPlace Showcase follows Renderosity’s strict guidelines for quality and support. In the end, this is a move that will benefit not just the MarketPlace, but the community as a whole.

If you’re interested in selling your products through Renderosity, but don’t know how, you can read about it http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=13099

As always, we thank you for choosing Renderosity, where quality and professionalism come first.

Thank you for your cooperation!"

And, no they can't. They only want products in their Marketplace posted in that forum. Anything whether linked or not will be removed.

LostInSpaceMan, apparently you missed the central issue. This has very little to do with galleries and such. Rather it has to do with the Product Showcase forum, which is all advertising all the time. It was originally created so that ads wouldn't fill up the regular forums. So, if you hate advertising, you've probably never been there. :)

In that past, anyone could post to the Product Showcase Forum regardless of where the product was actually sold. Now, only Renderosity merchants can advertise there, which is just silly since most of us go to the Marketplace to see what is new here.

Many of us found the Product Showcase Forum under the old rules to be a valuable resource for seeing what was new in the community at large. Now it is a completely useless corner of the forums that has been all but abandoned by those who used to frequent it.

So, it not all about nothing - there is much more to it than you apparently realize.

No I did read it and frankly I don't consider it an issue worth 5 pages of moaning. You can still do renders in the Poser Gallery with any content you wish and say where you got it from as long as you don't link to it. As for the Product Showcase being for RMP merchandise only, I think that's fair. People pay for advertising every day, why should Poser mechants get free advertising at a store they don't sell through? Products from other sites will b mentioned in the galleries and forums in spite of this ruling and as long as they aren't advertisement links from the merchant they're safe.

It's already been drilled into the ground that if someone asks in the forums, where can I find this, anyone can respond with "Here's a linkie", even the merchant. I still say this is too much fuss over something that's really not going to affect anyone being able to find what they need if it exists.

lostinspace...you are :)
why should anyopne have to search all over the net, use google, and all that when the info could be right where it always was, in the Product Showcase.
What if you dont want to look at 1000 images to see something cool in one that may be a product somewhere.

Plus the fact most of the vendors that place their posts in the product showplace have been members of this community for years and contribute beyond their products. They are what builds a "community". I'm sure it helps their pocketbooks too, but it goes beyond that.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Quote - Anyone who hangs around any online forum long enough is going to find those other sites. And Google is your friend! Frankly, I hate commercials on TV and the web equally. Venders can still advertise their wares here, they just can't create a traffic link.

Not always... some sites, sure a link would be understandably verboten in a TOS (like, oh, Renderotica) - and Google serves admirably to pick up the slack for the adults who want to get there.

OTOH, why be a bad neighbor? All the other sites (within reason) allow linking to products here, after all.

/P

Quote - ya see...no one took me seriously about starting up an advertising forum site.
the Guild is ok...but is it a store?

That's the idea - it really shouldn't be a store. Having a store means there's financial motive to push traffic to it, even to the disadvantage of others.

OTOH, I really like the idea of having a place where merchies can get together and talk shop, announce bits and bobs, and etc.

If DAZ, Rendo, et al are smart, they'd pool together a bit of dough to help w/ the bandwidth bills once things get hopping (Hell, computer corps do this all the time with standards organizations and the like...)

/P

4/2/08

Hmmm, are a lot of content providers and merchants interested in a site where they can share among themselves, and provide advertisement of upcoming products, available merchandise, and information on their products? If so, why not have a site with free forums, and a membership fee to some forums, and freestuff downloads section. Each vender, merchant, or content provider could give QUALITY freebies so that there is a steady flow of new stuff every week or so, and archives of free items.

A section for quality tutorials available to subscribing members could also be an attraction. A decent link page for the various vendor sites, freestuff, etc. could be an added bonus.

I, for one, would also put up with advertisement banners to help pay for bandwidth. Users and merchants could chose the level of their participation.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

OTOH, I really like the idea of having a place where merchies can get together and talk shop, announce bits and bobs, and etc.<<

As long as the "shop talk" stays within any NDAs that they might have signed. That is my main reservation about the guild. It's a good idea in theory, but there are a LOT of issues that need to be thought about and addressed as well.

Quote - lostinspace...you are :)
why should anyopne have to search all over the net, use google, and all that when the info could be right where it always was, in the Product Showcase.
What if you dont want to look at 1000 images to see something cool in one that may be a product somewhere.

Plus the fact most of the vendors that place their posts in the product showplace have been members of this community for years and contribute beyond their products. They are what builds a "community". I'm sure it helps their pocketbooks too, but it goes beyond that.

Now Dave! Let's not start making personal insults out of my screen name ok? I'm not lost. I just don't see what all the fuss is about. So people actually have to make an effort to find things they need and not have them spoon fed up to them like so much pap.

I'm quite sure that anyone who uses DAZ figures knows where the DAZ store it. I seriously doubt that any of the major or even minor stores are unknown to the people who use them. They aren't forbidding any mention of other stores. They're forbidding links. Traffic redirection.

That's smart in any sense of the term Business Sense. You don't want your business being drained off your own business, no matter how community related it might be.

I've never been a big fan of the Merchandising up of Poserdom anyway, but I see the store's perspective on this one. And Look! Now we have the new Creator's Guild that people can clutter up with all the advertsisments they want to FOR FREE. How great is that?

Quote - 4/2/08

Hmmm, are a lot of content providers and merchants interested in a site where they can share among themselves, and provide advertisement of upcoming products, available merchandise, and information on their products? If so, why not have a site with free forums, and a membership fee to some forums, and freestuff downloads section. Each vender, merchant, or content provider could give QUALITY freebies so that there is a steady flow of new stuff every week or so, and archives of free items.

A section for quality tutorials available to subscribing members could also be an attraction. A decent link page for the various vendor sites, freestuff, etc. could be an added bonus.

I, for one, would also put up with advertisement banners to help pay for bandwidth. Users and merchants could chose the level of their participation.

LMK

Sounds like some good ideas for the new Creator's Guild site if you ask me. If they add freebies it will draw in all the people they want to advertise to like a magnet! Then they can post their adverts in all the forums and galleries to their hearts content!

Quote - >> OTOH, I really like the idea of having a place where merchies can get together and talk shop, announce bits and bobs, and etc.<<

As long as the "shop talk" stays within any NDAs that they might have signed. That is my main reservation about the guild. It's a good idea in theory, but there are a LOT of issues that need to be thought about and addressed as well.

Well no public site can enforce merchant NDA's. That is between the one who made the agreement and the one who agreed to it. As with anywhere, you'd be able to promote and show what you have public right to do so.

.

Quote - > Quote - 4/2/08

Hmmm, are a lot of content providers and merchants interested in a site where they can share among themselves, and provide advertisement of upcoming products, available merchandise, and information on their products? If so, why not have a site with free forums, and a membership fee to some forums, and freestuff downloads section. Each vender, merchant, or content provider could give QUALITY freebies so that there is a steady flow of new stuff every week or so, and archives of free items.

A section for quality tutorials available to subscribing members could also be an attraction. A decent link page for the various vendor sites, freestuff, etc. could be an added bonus.

I, for one, would also put up with advertisement banners to help pay for bandwidth. Users and merchants could chose the level of their participation.

LMK

Sounds like some good ideas for the new Creator's Guild site if you ask me. If they add freebies it will draw in all the people they want to advertise to like a magnet! Then they can post their adverts in all the forums and galleries to their hearts content!

And the site doesn't even need to host the freebies. Could use sharecg and link to it :)

.

Quote - They aren't forbidding any mention of other stores. They're forbidding links. Traffic redirection.

Still don't get it do you even with it written in text from them. They ARE forbiding ANY product that isn't in THEIR Market Place from being posted in the Marketplace Showroom forum.

Here is a quote from the message: > Quote - Only items that are found in the Renderosity MarketPlace will be shown in either area. Any new posts or gallery images regarding outside content will be removed.

Without posts about products, links of any kind aren't necessary. We aren't talking about just links, we are talking about products posts in general. Even if there were no links in the post and if that item wasn't selling in their Market Place, the post would be removed.

Quote - > Quote - They aren't forbidding any mention of other stores. They're forbidding links. Traffic redirection.

Still don't get it do you even with it written in text from them. They ARE forbiding ANY product that isn't in THEIR Market Place from being posted in the Marketplace Showroom forum.

Here is a quote from the message: > Quote - Only items that are found in the Renderosity MarketPlace will be shown in either area. Any new posts or gallery images regarding outside content will be removed.

Without posts about products, links of any kind aren't necessary. We aren't talking about just links, we are talking about products posts in general. Even if there were no links in the post and if that item wasn't selling in their Market Place, the post would be removed.

Stan, I get it comepletely and I happen to agree with them. End of argument.

But do you see the problem this causes?

Someone at RuntimeDNA makes an outfit for Victoria 4. A Renderosity merchant makes a texture for that outfit.

Now ... read the Renderosity announcement literally ....

Only items that are found in the Renderosity MarketPlace will be shown in either area. Any new posts or gallery images regarding outside content will be removed.

By that definition, and if taken literally, the ONLY thing that would be allowed in the Renderosity Marketplace promo images are the textures for the Victoria 4 outfit. Would make for an interesting promo image, don't you think?

The thing is, if the texture was created for an outfit made at RDNA, and if they needed DAZ's V4 to wear that outfit, they would STILL be redirected to those two sites to purchase the necessary things to use the Rendo merchant's texture.

Sorry, but this is a policy that makes no sense. End of argument. ;-)

-I think you can argue and argue for many pages more, but for me it's simple: Renderosity used to be a community and now it's a store.
End of an era.

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

Quote - But do you see the problem this causes?

Someone at RuntimeDNA makes an outfit for Victoria 4. A Renderosity merchant makes a texture for that outfit.

Now ... read the Renderosity announcement literally ....

Only items that are found in the Renderosity MarketPlace will be shown in either area. Any new posts or gallery images regarding outside content will be removed.

By that definition, and if taken literally, the ONLY thing that would be allowed in the Renderosity Marketplace promo images are the textures for the Victoria 4 outfit. Would make for an interesting promo image, don't you think?

The thing is, if the texture was created for an outfit made at RDNA, and if they needed DAZ's V4 to wear that outfit, they would STILL be redirected to those two sites to purchase the necessary things to use the Rendo merchant's texture.

Sorry, but this is a policy that makes no sense. End of argument. ;-)

I noticed that particular discrepancy early on and I seriously doubt that they mean you can't do Promo images with DAZ figures wearing Someone else's hair with your garment etc....

Have none of you heard the phrase "It follows the letter of the law, but not the Spirit." That's what's going on here. Ya'll can nit pick the actual wording to death, the spirit of the rule is simple. They want only promotions of RMP items in the RMP Promo forum and gallery.

That being said, they've already stated that people can and most assuredly will be asking in the other forums like the Poser forum. "Hey, where can I find such and such items?" and people are allowed to not only post links and images, they can also post other comparable items. That's where most of what I find comes from anyway. Acadia is the Ace of off Site linking!

Quote - But do you see the problem this causes?

Someone at RuntimeDNA makes an outfit for Victoria 4. A Renderosity merchant makes a texture for that outfit.

Now ... read the Renderosity announcement literally ....

Only items that are found in the Renderosity MarketPlace will be shown in either area. Any new posts or gallery images regarding outside content will be removed.

By that definition, and if taken literally, the ONLY thing that would be allowed in the Renderosity Marketplace promo images are the textures for the Victoria 4 outfit. Would make for an interesting promo image, don't you think?

The thing is, if the texture was created for an outfit made at RDNA, and if they needed DAZ's V4 to wear that outfit, they would STILL be redirected to those two sites to purchase the necessary things to use the Rendo merchant's texture.

Sorry, but this is a policy that makes no sense. End of argument. ;-)

I don't have time tonight to answer every question, but, yes the idea has been brought to Admin about the potential of having a different forum for offsite posting, but, I don't see it happening, as it would negate the reason for this decision.

Anyway, the reason I quoted Deecey...
Ok, your argument is a LOT more than nitpicky, it's just silly. How many years has Renderosity allowed merchants to link DIRECTLY to the required product, even if said product is offsite? At least 4 that I know of, if not longer. Hell, I recommend it. You have no idea how often I have to answer Site Mails that consist of "I bought this character, and in the read me it says that it requires Victoria 4. Where do I get her?" Do merchants take advantage of that link (Which I personally find would be EXCELLENT customer service on the part of the MERCHANT)? Not many. I bet I could search for 2 days before I found one. But, they ARE allowed.

Anyway, I'm sorry I haven't gotten back to this thread earlier than today...I've been really busy with my job and planning a wedding.

Jeni

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Jen, yes, it might have been nitpicky. But at a time when there are so many different changes going on community-wide, this is just adding to the frustration and uncertainty. At a time when it's getting HARDER to find things community-wide, it's going to be a lot more difficult to find accompanying products.

We all need to remember that first and foremost this is a store that HOSTS forums and freestuff. It was 10 years ago that it was a free sharing community here. Anyone remember Poser Forum Online? Those days are sadly gone, but this is progress and this is a good store, an excellent store, (I buy most of my poser stuff here). It's a good store and supplamentary forum site. But please every store that has forums are stores first and forums second. They have to protect thier products and customer base.

This is how I understand it. I personally agree that the "Miracle on 42nd St." analogy would be best observed, but we need to remember what this site is first and foremost.

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Quote -
As long as the "shop talk" stays within any NDAs that they might have signed. That is my main reservation about the guild. It's a good idea in theory, but there are a LOT of issues that need to be thought about and addressed as well.

That's a pretty much a no-brainer. Seriously - merchies are smart enough to know that busting an NDA means no more sales at that store (and other stores suddenly being apprehensive about hosting that merchie...)

As Netherworks mentioned aptly, no 3rd-party site has the requirement to enforce NDA's (nor would any want to...)

What other issues would need to be thought out?

/P

Attached Link: Marketplace Wishing Well

> Quote - Jen, yes, it might have been nitpicky. But at a time when there are so many different changes going on community-wide, this is just adding to the frustration and uncertainty. At a time when it's getting HARDER to find things community-wide, it's going to be a lot more difficult to find accompanying products.

That's where it's up to merchants to point purchasers in the direction of the necessary base figure. And it's up to customers to ask for it.

Every merchant that vends here should be aware of the Wishing Well. Why? Because it's THEIR responsibility to look for and listen to what their customers want. They don't all have to be product ideas.

As a merchant, I expect my customers to make me work my butt off for the money they pay for my products. I don't expect to be able to get away with the bare minimum effort in both the creating and advertising aspect. (And I SUCK at advertising)

As far as the "Harder to find things" aspect...well, to be honest, it may have something to do with DAZ wanting their merchants to be exclusive, and Smith Micro attempting to attract vendors into doing the same. And, the enticing worm makes it that much more delectable of an idea to remove all of your product from one store and move to the big one.

Last year at this time, most of my favorite merchants sold on at least 2 sites; Renderosity and Poser Pros, if not also at CP and their own site. There was a variety of ways to get product from vendors. Now, not as much.

So, yes, lines have been drawn in the sand. But, hey, there's still 5 months until September, right? ;)

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Well, I just hope that all of the changes going on throughout all the sites settle down soon. Yes, I'm sure that a lot of us really miss those days when all of the sites were just a bunch of different flavors in the great big soup that we called a "community." The changes are difficult for everyone concerned, and a lot of the reactions we are seeing are a reflection of that. It's hard to see more and more fragmentation happening all the time.

Whatever happens, I hope it's all for the best.

Quote - Well, I just hope that all of the changes going on throughout all the sites settle down soon.

sigh I've been hoping that for years, Deecey...

Anyway, I'm off to bed...lol, early-morning wakeups suck.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

What other issues would need to be thought out? <<<

One of the key things to teach is the "what's OK to do and what's not OK to do" aspect of content creation. A lot of the "old timers" know those ropes, but a lot of newer ones don't. So copyright/ethics education, learning how to read and understand EULAs, learning to ask questions when there are doubts, all that nifty stuff. Having that in a central location would be a wonderful thing.

And also giving and receiving constructive criticism that can help a content creator grow in their skills. I learned a LOT by having a product turned down or sent back for changes, because it made me go back and look at much better ways of doing things, which then in turn improved my skills in the long run. So teaching people NOT to feel bad about "rejection" and using that to grow artistically and creatively.

So many things ... and if done in a positive, non-political environment it could be a very good thing. Now, if you can create that Utopia all power to y'all. 8-)

Good to know about the Content Creator site... I think it will start getting a lot busier now. In the long run it may be best to have a central site anyways ( like Content Creator forums ) where all vendors can promote their goods and have neutral ground to discuss market concerns.

I have been visiting the product forum here daily to see what different goodies around the Poserverse were being released or in the works. To see what's new in the marketplace I usually go straight to the marketplace instead of the forums ( similar to what someone said on like page 2 of this thread ).

To me the current trend in the overall Poser/DAZ Studio market seems to be that the big stores and DAZ and Smith-Micro are all done with handshaking... at least currently.

Content Paradise would've been the best place to have such a forum since it used to comprise many stores... but that site ( for me at least ) is so darn slow. DAZ's Commons forum has so much activity that a vendor could advertise and within a few hours their post is on page 4.

Sad to see the restrictions come, but I do think it's a new opportunity for a centralized advertising site ( like Content Creators forum ) to quickly blossom. I think a centralized site would really help the real small stores too ( who release cool stuff I find only months or years later or... dread... after they've closed shop).

Seems like market isolationisim is in the air all over the Poser/DS universe... ?

Off to register at the CCforum site : )

Quote - >>> What other issues would need to be thought out? <<<

One of the key things to teach is the "what's OK to do and what's not OK to do" aspect of content creation. A lot of the "old timers" know those ropes, but a lot of newer ones don't. So copyright/ethics education, learning how to read and understand EULAs, learning to ask questions when there are doubts, all that nifty stuff. Having that in a central location would be a wonderful thing.

Interesting that you should mention that... (I'm pretty much donating everything I've written --at least everything that I can scrounge up-- on many of those subjects).

Minor nitpick: I prefer the term "usage license", since EULA ("End User License Agreement") is an acronym for license agreements that the end user typically does not readily see until the product is purchased (when it's usually too late to disagree w/o losing whatever you paid for it). In the tech world, there is still a lot of disagreement over whether a "EULA" is even legally enforceable.

...but that's a tangent. :)

Quote - And also giving and receiving constructive criticism that can help a content creator grow in their skills. I learned a LOT by having a product turned down or sent back for changes, because it made me go back and look at much better ways of doing things, which then in turn improved my skills in the long run. So teaching people NOT to feel bad about "rejection" and using that to grow artistically and creatively.

So why not pitch in? Write up an article or three on how to handle it, then contribute?

Quote - So many things ... and if done in a positive, non-political environment it could be a very good thing. Now, if you can create that Utopia all power to y'all. 8-)

Politics is easy to separate when you know going in that you're dealing with a bunch of folks whose goal combines art and sales. The trick involves respect.

PS: "Utopia" is (IIRC) Greek for "No Land". IOW, there's no such thing. :)

/P

IF anyone is interested I just setup a place on my forum for you to advertise your products. I don't care which store you belong to or sell from. I also have a gallery for posting images and promos.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

So why not pitch in? Write up an article or three on how to handle it, then contribute? <<<

Well, I have to confess. I did try to sign up after my last post, but one thing is preventing me from doing so. I don't have a "personal site." While I have a URL, it's gone undeveloped for years because I dread the thought of designing it. LOL

So I'm thinking that maybe they might want to rethink that part of the signup requirements. I'm not really a "content creator" any more in the strict sense of the word ... but I can be a fairly decent mentor.

Politics is easy to separate when you know going in that you're dealing with a bunch of folks whose goal combines art and sales. The trick involves respect. <<<<

Yup, and there's a lot to be said for that. This isn't about "us vs them", or "this app vs that app", because it all works together. It can all STILL work together. When times are a changing (as they are in a big way now), it doesn't do any good to fight the changes. You deal with them and move on to learn to live with them all. And ALL of that involves respect.

Quote -

Well, I have to confess. I did try to sign up after my last post, but one thing is preventing me from doing so. I don't have a "personal site." While I have a URL, it's gone undeveloped for years because I dread the thought of designing it. LOL

So I'm thinking that maybe they might want to rethink that part of the signup requirements. I'm not really a "content creator" any more in the strict sense of the word ... but I can be a fairly decent mentor.

Yeah - ha ha - I just put my comicspace gallery as 'personal site'.

Maybe CCG is meant mainly for content creators and not a place to advertise products?

Quote - > Quote -

Well, I have to confess. I did try to sign up after my last post, but one thing is preventing me from doing so. I don't have a "personal site." While I have a URL, it's gone undeveloped for years because I dread the thought of designing it. LOL

So I'm thinking that maybe they might want to rethink that part of the signup requirements. I'm not really a "content creator" any more in the strict sense of the word ... but I can be a fairly decent mentor.

Yeah - ha ha - I just put my comicspace gallery as 'personal site'.

Maybe CCG is meant mainly for content creators and not a place to advertise products?

That is something that is being discussed there. Personally I would not mind having a site that no matter what store you sell in you could advertise there. Maybe I will just reopen Poser Underground and make it that, an advertising website strictly.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

I didn't want to get involved in this huge thread, but I'd like to clarify some points:

Quote - My theory is that Renderosity, still smarting from being dissed and dropped by Content Paradise...

Can we please let this rumor die? Do we know for a fact that Renderosity was "dissed and dropped"? Where is the official statement from CP "dissing" Renderosity?
In my opinion (and according to a number of other forum postings), it was Renderosity that left CP. Despite all the theatrics about how "CP is kicking out all its merchants", this is completely untrue. As of April 2008, how many providers have left CP? I believe it's only been Renderosity and RuntimeDNA.

Quote - If someone says "Hey, where can I find barbarian-style weapons?", you can list all the packs you can find in our MP, RDNA, DAZ, CP, and any other little store you can find. Even if you made it.

Um, this is incorrect. A few years ago, when someone asked a direct question about a product at my marketplace here, my reply was deleted and I was given a "verbal warning" (or would that be a "written warning" since it was in an e-mail?) that I was posting a commercial message. My reply was almost exactly like quote above: a customer asked about how to find something and I said "I have one of those in my marketplace".

Since then, I have been under the impression that merely mentioning your own product (even one for sale here) in a non-marketplace forum will get the message deleted and will result in a warning, suspension or ban.

I think Gareee said it best:

Quote - Example: Do you think my advertising my Deadcorn sets here hurt any rendo vendors at all? There's nothing like that here.

Like Spock, this is a very logical approach. Unfortunately, we're dealing with humans, not Vulcans. And because of that, humans may not care about logical arguments: they see that a message linked to a product on DAZ could possibly, potentially, maybe, sort-of take one visitor away from Renderosity. So, to stop all these hordes of people from leaving, a new policy must create a new policy.

I also agree with redhorse: if someone claims that outside advertising affects the Renderosity merchants in any way, then let's see some proof. Let's see some definitive numbers that show "person X clicked a link, purchased a product at DAZ and resulted in a Z% drop in income for this site and this merchant."
Personally, I don't think this kind of analysis is even possible, given all the factors that affect website traffic and this business in general.

I also don't think we should should be viewing the community as a pie to be sliced up, as in "if you get more money, I get less money".
If I buy V4 at DAZ, does Renderosity lose any money? No because they don't sell V4. So how does a Renderosity merchant lose money? I would think that all the Renderosity merchants who make V4 characters would be very happy that I just bought V4 from a competitor: now that I have the base figure, I'm in the market for their products.

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

Quote - If I buy V4 at DAZ, does Renderosity lose any money? No because they don't sell V4. So how does a Renderosity merchant lose money? I would think that all the Renderosity merchants who make V4 characters would be very happy that I just bought V4 from a competitor: now that I have the base figure, I'm in the market for their products.

I don't think they are looking at it that way but they should.

Quote -
Well, I have to confess. I did try to sign up after my last post, but one thing is preventing me from doing so. I don't have a "personal site." While I have a URL, it's gone undeveloped for years because I dread the thought of designing it. LOL

I just linked to my ShareCG freebies. I don't think a URL is that hard to find. Heck! You could link to your Renderosity store for all that matters.

My Freebies

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: New Rules about offsite Merchant postings -- Question