Quote - But taken too far, it can be a waste of valuable time -- time which should not be spent majoring on minors.

true, but since for almost everyone here, this is just play, what does it matter?  as long as we're all having fun...

i keep tweaking stuff and trying to take my work further in lots of directions.  but even i build on existing knowledge.  i just took a render through 3 iterations instead of 10 or so.  another one i was working on recently i spent most of my time on trying different elements rather than tweaking materials and light for realism (though i did that, too). 

Fun in here I wouldn't deny to anybody........heh -- I'm contemplating rendering the same scene over and over again, myself.  So who am I to be too critical of that? 

There's also a sharp difference between "in here", and the way that things might go in the RW.  All of the RW clients that I've ever known wouldn't dream of letting me do something over and over again, in an attempt to get it perfect.

www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_174/file_1731598.jpg

First iteration of the "Studio Shot (Dark)"
Vue really doesn't do photographic lighting that well which is hardly surprising since it's a landscape generation/rendering program but I don't think it's too bad.  Took forever to light though and I had to cheat a bit with a custom light falloff curve on the quad spot

Quote -
Another characteristic of perfectionists is that they can be highly intolerant of any perceived lack of perfection in others -- which can make them difficult to work with.

Please stop talking about me :) LOL

*not that i'll complain, mind you.  i use Poser mainly, and it looks like you're proposing something bagginsbill or one of his followers could whip out in an hour.

*They are called "Node Cultists", not followers. I would not tolerate mere followers. They gotta BELIEVE.

I don't think it is at all fair to test with "default" settings. Poser's defaults are all about quick renders. The initial lights suck, the render settings suck. I'm not talking about endless tweaking, just that you have to use the features a little bit.

Look at this simple little room.

I did this in 10 minutes while trying to help somebody figure out what's wrong with shadows. If I had done this with default settings and default shaders, it would look like crap.

Don't even bother comparing Poser to something else if you're not willing to put some effort into the configuration.

What I think you should do is develop a couple scenarios and let experts in each app do their best. But ... here's the good part - they're not allowed to "show" without the "tell". I'll be happy to post my lights, shaders, and render settings if you want me to play.
 

I insist on water in two of them. One should be indoor, the other outdoor. In fact, I want several outdoor - swimming pool, lake and ocean.

I'll kick ass on the ocean. All I need is a one-sided square.

Quote - > Quote -

Another characteristic of perfectionists is that they can be highly intolerant of any perceived lack of perfection in others -- which can make them difficult to work with.

Please stop talking about me :) LOL

You were exactly who I had in mind when I said that.  (:lol: )

........actually, your advice & your work is highly appreciated........plus I don't know you (at all) in RL. 

Quote - What I think you should do is develop a couple scenarios and let experts in each app do their best. But ... here's the good part - they're not allowed to "show" without the "tell". I'll be happy to post my lights, shaders, and render settings if you want me to play.

Please do.

PoserPro
Raytrace shadows
HDRI moonlight.
AO in nodes

Agressive Firefly settings.

Post:
No color correction. Cleaned up a few artifacts and cropped the image. No sharpen or blur. Very, very slight contrast/brightness adjustment.

I submit this render to set a bar for complex soft shadows. Under her straps, both of them. Especially under the loose one. That is a beautiful, soft, mixed-source shadow.

Also look at the base of the dresser. That is quite precise and convincing AO at the floor. I really like the complex overlapping shadows in the left background floor.

The grain of the floor tiles and wood is quite nicely resolved.  Same with individual strands of stray hairs.

Poser supposedly 'has no radiosity.'

K

Ready to see similar from Vue and Carrara.

::::: Opera :::::

:: og ::

I like that one, opera.  Especially the color version.

Quote - I insist on water in two of them. One should be indoor, the other outdoor. In fact, I want several outdoor - swimming pool, lake and ocean.

I'll kick ass on the ocean. All I need is a one-sided square.

I might take you up on the ocean/lake/swimming pool one Bill :) Vue does do water rather well and even a klutz like me can get it to look reasonable.

Check out my caustics.

oddly, i can hear the water when i look at that.

actually, at least one of those beach shots i linked to had water.

oddly, i can hear the water when i look at that.

actually, at least one of those beach shots i linked to had water.

oh, and has anyone seen Rutra's recent waves?  absolutely gorgeous.
his pictures in Vue:
...somewhere...

Here I Go!!

Attached Link: http://www.leroypro.com/downloads.htm

It's for Bryce and MAX, so I had to just load the untextured OBJ file into Poser. But as a demonstration of lighting, it suffices I think. I just set up a trivial diffuse white shader.

I used an IBL that I made from a beach panorama, and a single infinite light, with AO on the IBL light. This render reveals some of Poser's little problems with AO, but it's not bad. It's probably a lot better than people think is possible with Poser, and I didn't tweak nothin!

(Click to enlarge)

When I imported the temple, it only came in with one material zone. I can't do too much with that, but here's a little something. I put one of the more interesting materials I have laying around on it. It's supposed to be a car paint shader. But sometimes you gotta think out of the box. I tweaked it here and there and came up with this. Because of the way this shader reacts to light, it actually produces a lot of variation, even with everything set to the same material.

Now that's a fantasy temple. Where did I put that Vicky and her sword?

sigh  Lacking time, they can't do more at the moment.  But a visit to that freebie temple might be in their near future.  I'd have to gaze into a Vue-material crystal ball to know for certain as to when it will be.  Perhaps by this weekend.......then again, you never can tell.

Hmmmm.  It's also interesting to note how they can stand in the water without their clothes (or at least their pants legs) getting thoroughly soaked in the process.....but hey: maybe James just jumped in a split-second ago.

A quick 'n dirty scene -- no "tweaking" of any sort.  Once again: I believe that I have achieved true greatness.  Now I can sleep easy.

There are lots of freebie trees and foiliage models in the rendo freestuff area.

Water with caustics looks terrific BB.

I actually have need to make an animation of V4 swimming laps in a lap pool. I don't think Poser, Vue or Carrara have the fluid dynmaics features to tackle something like that, do they?

But that's getting ahead of the current mission.

::::: Opera :::::