dphoadley opened this issue on Aug 21, 2008 · 153 posts
dphoadley posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 4:08 PM
Acadia posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 4:35 PM
Very nice image :)
So far as people not liking her, I don't think that is the case at all.
She's an older figure now and people tend to gravitate to the newer figures.
When Jessi came out with Poser 6 she was hot commodity with some people for a while. Then V4 came out and now she's the hot number.
People have their favourites for whatever the reason, that doesn't mean to say that they don't like the other figures, just that they enjoy one over the others.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
wheatpenny posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 4:50 PM Site Admin
The EJ figure for Judy has always been my favourite figure. I have V4 but have only used it once.
Jeff
Renderosity Senior Moderator
Hablo español
Ich spreche Deutsch
Je parle français
Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?
ockham posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 4:53 PM
Attached Link: Judy in doorway
Yup. I've been using the Eternal Judy variant for a series of story pics on my blog. "Womanly" is the right word. Perfectly proportioned.In this pic, she's wearing standard Judy blouse and dynamic skirt.
(The shoes are homemade.)
Conniekat8 posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 5:18 PM
Beacuse guys being guys, most of them get tired of a figure, and want to move on to something new. Judy has the misfortune of having been around for a while. Same is starting to happen to V3... and by the time V6 is around, people will have neglected V4.
People interested in 'nostalgia' are always fewer then those chasing latest trends.
So it goes.
Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz
yurs?
BadKittehCo
Store BadKittehCo Freebies
and product support
Casette posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 5:34 PM
Default Judy is ugly like a sin
CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"
XENOPHONZ posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 5:45 PM
If anyone wants to use whatever the figure of their personal choice happens to be -- then more power to 'em. The choices that others might make in such an area don't matter to me in the least. It's entirely up to them.
Having said that: the market is what it is, and people's tastes are what they are. I prefer V4. Most likely, I always will prefer V4.....probably until such time as V5 comes out. The only thing that would stand a chance of changing my mind about the subject would be if someone came out with a new figure that "out V4'd" V4.
I might use a figure like Judy on occasion -- when she can't be seen too clearly in the image, and when there's no need for a lot of detail. I don't specifically "dislike" Judy -- or any other Poser figure. I just happen to prefer V4. A preference for one thing doesn't mean that you "hate" something else: it just means that the "something else" isn't the place where your individual taste takes you. And I live by my individual tastes: not by someone else's. Most people do.
V3 was the hot number for a long time (a 'long time' in Poser terms). And I still use V3 a fair amount of the time. But now she's been supplanted -- for the most part -- by V4. And I like V4 better.
Off the cuff, I'd say that Victoria's next-closest rival would be Miki.
patorak posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 5:49 PM
*In my opinion, she's the most 'Womanly' of them all, and she's free, and she comes presupplied with a nice wardrobe, plus there's lots of FREE morphs for her, -so why isn't she more popular?
David P. Hoadley
PS: The example here is taken from my latest gallery upload.
Excellent pic!
so why isn't she more popular?
I think guys are afraid of a real woman!
XENOPHONZ posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 6:15 PM
Quote - so why isn't she more popular?
I think guys are afraid of a real woman!
Not exactly.........however, "guys being afraid of a real woman" might explain why those guys spend so much time hanging around in Poser -- as a general principle.
Or maybe it has something to do with not being able to get a RW date.........:sneaky:
You can tell that you spend entirely too much time in Poser when you sit in a restaurant or walk through a shopping mall -- "*She's a Judy. Now her......she's definitely a Victoria ! Her.......posette.........and here comes a Miki........." * Under such circumstances.......yeah, there might be some underlying issues with relating to "real women" in evidence. 
But I don't think that specific Poser figure choices have anything to do with it.
Poser figures -- including the women -- always do exactly what they are told -- and with no back-talk. That's why it's called fantasy............:lol:
dphoadley posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 6:25 PM
"*Default Judy is ugly like a sin"
But so is Defaault Vicky, -any and all versions!
*"Poser figures -- including the women -- always do exactly what they are told -- and with no back-talk. That's why it's called fantasy............
"
And they're always in the mood! ;=D
DPH
Tashar59 posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 6:36 PM
Another figure rally?
I have and use judy, EJ looks good but so do the Yamato hybrids of Judy.
I have so many figures that I use what I need and like and not what otheres think is good. Different stokes for different folks.
Don't forget Judy was P5. there are many that don't have P5 and may not know that she is in the legacy content that is free when you buy Poser.
jjroland posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 7:48 PM
To simply answer the original question. I agree with Casette, but not only do I think default Judy is ugly as sin I think any morphed version I've seen of her is ugly as well. I have seen renders of other models which I thought were realistic. I have never once seen anything of Judy that I thought looked like anything more than an outdated unrealistic ugly model.
Of course I haven't come close to "seeing it all" yet, but I highly doubt anything I missed would change my mind.
I am: aka Velocity3d
pjz99 posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 7:58 PM
^^ prepare to be crucified hon
Dave-So posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 9:05 PM
Judy never was very popular, even right when she came out with P5. Alien looking woman. And ugly as sin :)
Humankind has not
woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound
together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle,
1854
fls13 posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 9:17 PM
The P5s were hardly perfect, but they were very serviceable for a few years. They are more compatible with the face room, low rez and easy to work with.
patorak posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 9:26 PM
Attached Link: Judy in doorway*
Yup. I've been using the Eternal Judy variant for a series of story pics on my blog.
"Womanly" is the right word. Perfectly proportioned.
In this pic, she's wearing standard Judy blouse and dynamic skirt.
(The shoes are homemade.)
Great pic!
I agree her proportions are more realistic.
replicand posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 9:27 PM
You can tell that you spend entirely too much time in Poser when you sit in a restaurant or walk through a shopping mall -- "She's a Judy. Now her......she's definitely a Victoria ! Her.......posette.........and here comes a Miki........." I went into a paint store recently and asked for interior paint with lambert diffusion characteristics. I got a very strange look for the saleman.
dphoadley posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 10:13 PM
bagginsbill posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 10:31 PM
DPH,
Very funny typo you made. You mean aversion, right?
Adversion (a very old, obsolete word) means "a turning towards, interest in". I hardly think that's what you were trying to say, LOL.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
dphoadley posted Thu, 21 August 2008 at 10:48 PM
dphoadley@bgginsbill
You're right, but it wasn't a typo, -I honestly mistook one word for the other. Thank you for pointing out my mistake, and allowing me to add to my vocabulary: Webster Dictionary, 1913:
**
Adversion Ad`versary (#), n.; pl. Adversaries (#). [OE. adversarie, direct fr. the Latin, and adversaire, fr. OF. adversier, aversier, fr. L. adversarius (a.) turned toward, (n.) an adversary. See Adverse.] One who is turned against another or others with a design to oppose26 or resist them; a member of an opposing or hostile party; an opponent; an antagonist; an enemy; a foe.> Adver"sion* (#), n.[L. adversio] A turning towards; attention. [Obs.] Dr. H. More.
Yours truly,
DPH ;=D
XENOPHONZ posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 1:21 AM
I'd say that most people would have an aversion to crucifixion. It wasn't an easy way to die. Perhaps the worst & most painful method of execution ever invented by man......but the Romans were known for doing things like that. Although the Romans didn't invent crucifixion. The Persians did.
OT -- and please don't read the following paragraph if you are of a sensitive nature:
The Romans had another punishment for murderers. It involved tying the dead body of the murder victim to the back of the murderer, arm to arm, leg to leg, etc.......and then allowing the murder victim's body to slowly rot off. In the process, the corruption of the dead body would gradually spread into the living body of the murderer. Such punishments fit the Roman sense of justice and revenge - i.e. permitting the murder victim to avenge their own death. The Romans were such inventive people..........and we'd probably all have an adversion to that.
.........but I'm willing to bet that if the same sort of punishments were still in vogue today: then we'd see a lot fewer murders than we do.
cough cough -- back to talking about Judy.........
ockham posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 1:52 AM
I think 'adversion' is quickly taking on the meaning of 'aversion'. It's an easy semantic
shift, because 'adverse' implies a bad situation; and 'adverse' is more common
than 'averse'. So 'adversion' sounds like a nominal form of 'adverse'.
May not be good Latin, but it's a normal linguistic process.
But if you want to express extreme disgust, there's still no substitute
for 'eversion'! Especially if you're a sea cucumber or a supermodel.
Casette posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 2:58 AM
... or a cucumber supermodel (if anyone can add the 'super' word to Judy)
:lol:
CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"
dphoadley posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 3:37 AM
*'But if you want to express extreme disgust, there's still no substitute
for 'eversion'! Especially if you're a sea cucumber or a supermodel.'
Very Funny, and for those who haven't heard of this word before, here's a definition:
Noun: eversion i'vurzhun1. The position of being turned outward
"the eversion of the foot"
Derived forms: eversions See also: evert
Casette, my friend, easy there, -you're beginning to sound like me, when I'm high in my heat, and fulminating against Daz and the Vickies! DO you really want to acquire my bad habits? ;=D
DPH
ockham posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 9:06 AM
In the specific cases I mentioned, eversion means to turn the guts inside out.
Sea cucumbers (and related echinoderms like starfish or sea urchins) can do
this; some use it for self-defense, others use it as a way to get inside another
creature and digest it. Sort of like a tongue-lashing taken to extremes.
dphoadley posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 9:21 AM
Quote - In the specific cases I mentioned, eversion means to turn the guts inside out.
Sea cucumbers (and related echinoderms like starfish or sea urchins) can do
this; some use it for self-defense, others use it as a way to get inside another
creature and digest it. Sort of like a tongue-lashing taken to extremes.
Sounds deliciously pornographic, especially the tongue lashing! -maybe somebody could come up with a morph. ;=D
DPH
gagnonrich posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 9:41 AM
In the end, Judy was doomed the way most Poser figures drop by the wayside--Lack of widespread merchant support. Wardrobe Wizard, and the other clothing programs, make it a little easier to use older, and other, figures. It's still more work. Unless a person has a favorite morph, of one of the older figures, that they want to keep using, there isn't a lot of reason to go to the extra trouble to convert clothing items.
My workflow is usually picking the outfit I want in an image rather than the figure, so I tend to look at the figure with the most clothing, V3/M3, and then V2/M2, before looking at any other figures. Picking a morph/face for the character is secondary because there are more than enough unique character looks in those figure sets to satisfy my creative needs. I'll occasionally feel guilty for not using non-DAZ figures, but it's just how things shook out in the Poser community. Now, if I need a monster, or other type of character, I'll often look outside of DAZ, though DAZ has been introducing some interesting alternative figures in the last few years (such as the Troll and Nybras).
My visual indexes of Poser
content are at http://www.sharecg.com/pf/rgagnon
ockham posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 10:42 AM
Gareee posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 11:03 AM
I've never seen a render making her attractive enough to want to use either. Looking at th enewer models, and textures available, some come very close to photorealistic.. Judy always looks like old days primitive cgi to me.
And the lack of a really high quality wardrobe and accessories fo her just worstens the situation.
Look at all the amazing aery soul items for V4, and then try to find anything even comparable for Judy.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
lululee posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 12:06 PM
bopperthijs posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 12:51 PM
Well, let's face it: if the poserguys had done a decent job on their own models, DAZ would have been bankrupt for years now. The only reason why people complain about the DAZ-models is because you have to pay for it, and the fact that a lot of people have paid for it, does mean that DAZ has done a good job, true or not?
I agree that the default DAZ-models don't look so good, but if they did DAZ wouldn't sell any of his morph++ and texture packets. And that's where the poserguys leaves us in the cold, you have to buy morph-packets for their models from third-party vendors. Ok, you have the face-room, but as soon as you apply some emotion you have the old Judy, or Jessi or Sydney back, and have you forget the horrible knee and elbow joints? I thought they would have fixed that with poser 7, but Sydney, Jessi G2 and even Miki 2 bent worse than a Barby.
I'm sorry to say but DAZ is miles ahead if it comes to 3d-(female) models. V4 is in my opinion the most versatile female model at the moment. And of course it has it's drawbacks, like the enormous derriere when it bents over and it's over-discussed armpits, but it has progress and support and that's more than you can say about the genuine poser-models.
V4 was an evolution compaired to V3 and so will V5, and V6 be. And that's the reason why I would buy any new upgrade of Victoria. One of the coming generation of Vx's will be a model that is capable of representing any woman on earth with lifelike anatomy and rigging.
Judy will be by then long forgotten or someone with a nostalgious mind does have to made a Judy Fullbody morph for Vicky.
just my €0.02
Bopprrrrt.
-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?
momodot posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 2:40 PM
momodot posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 2:41 PM
xantor posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 2:53 PM
A lot of people seem to only like the latest daz figure, even if it is not very good.
XENOPHONZ posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 4:16 PM
Quote - A lot of people seem to only like the latest daz figure, even if it is not very good.
It's a good thing that the latest DAZ figure is good.
Tashar59 posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 4:42 PM
Makes you wonder if there is a poser 8, what are the figures goiing to be. The same as they are now? It's is amazing that the poser figures still have not been fix properly in these few years they have been out. You think the g2 and miki are bad, what about Kate and Ben. they are a joint nightmare. Let's not forget, These poser figures since P6 are desgned in a way as to not be as easy to morph as the Daz figures.
Do you think SM are the type of company to have new figures created for Poser?
As for Judy, what happened DPH, did Possette finally die?
xantor posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 5:03 PM
Quote -" "A lot of people seem to only like the latest daz figure, even if it is not very good.
"
It's a good thing that the latest DAZ figure is good."*
Is there a newer figure than v4/a4? I didn`t know.
shuy posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 5:04 PM
And now I must admit that I love Daz figure. They are piece of hard work. (IMO only Apollo is better) but I think that most artists use them because they are "trendy" not because they are good. The proof is that they prefer buy new morph then create new figure using existing.
*** If you found something abusing in this post - I'm sorry. It is caused by my lack of English not my intention ;) ***
XENOPHONZ posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 5:11 PM
Quote - Is there a newer figure than v4/a4? I didn`t know.
Nope, there isn't. It's a good thing that V4 is such a good figure......doubtless, that's a big part of the reason why she's so popular.
XENOPHONZ posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 5:25 PM
As I mentioned earlier in this thread: I don't care which figures other people opt to use for their own purposes. Not a problem at all. Their taste -- their choice. That's what it's all about.
The problem is that some of the anti-DAZ / anti-Victoria types are like militant vegetarians: they aren't satisfied with simply living as they, themselves choose to live. Rather, they insist that everyone else has to stop eating meat, too. And they're constantly in a state of irritation and anger over the fact that 98% of the rest of the world refuses to go along with the innate brilliance of their way of thinking.
The Poser market is what it is. Deal with it. 3D meshes are not a matter of moral choice. It's more like a choice between chocolate or vanilla. My taste might not be the same as yours. For whatever reason: some people have a very hard time accepting that thought.
Personally, I don't mind at all that anyone else prefers to use posette, or dork, or James, or Jessie, or whatever. Go for it. But don't take on an irritating air of moral superiority over the ignorant hoi polloi.......(snort)........due to support for a particular 3D mesh........:lol::lol::lol:
xantor posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 5:26 PM
If you like a figure that needs magnets to work, uses injection morphs and is not really better than a p4 figure then v4 is great.
XENOPHONZ posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 5:48 PM
Quote - If you like a figure that needs magnets to work, uses injection morphs and is not really better than a p4 figure then v4 is great.
shrug Your opinion, your choice. Arguing over such matters is like arguing over color choices in home decorating. I'll make a deal with you: I'll paint my living room the way that I want to, and you can paint yours the way that you want to. Likewise: you can set up your runtime the way that you want to, and I'll set mine up the way that I want to. Then it's all good. 
bopperthijs posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 6:27 PM
I don't care so much if VIcky looks beautiful, I think it's more important that she can look real. And that means that she also can be ugly. It's easier to make Vicky look ugly than to make Judy look beautiful. DAZ doesn't only make sexy clothes for Victoria, but also victorian, medieval and casual clothing, but people always seems to focus on the skimpy sexy, fantasy outfits, of which, by the way, the majority is sold here at renderosity. Like I said: there are a lot things that can be impoved on the DAZ-models, but at least they are being improved, bit by bit of course, but if the poser guys and -girls had stayed with there original models and used those as a subject for their development, Judy would have been a good starting point: at least the body was better than P6 - Jessi, who looked like an anorethic alien, On the other hand: I did liked James and still do. At the moment there are the G2 - models, but generation from what? only the names Jessi and James are the same, but the difference between Jessi 1 and Jessi 2 is much bigger than V3 and V4. And why do you need three or four different models: Sydney, Jessi and Miki for the females and James, Simon, Koji and Kelvin for the male figures. At Daz dropped the coin and they made Aiko and Vicky one and the same model and it's for sure that the next Michael will have morphs for Hiro and even the Freak. The only difference is that the posermodels are for free if you own Poser, but DAZ has its free studio of course.
My point is: Poser models are DAZ major products so the quality and development of them will be their prime target. For the poserdevelopmentteam models will always be a by-product which can be shown on the latest so-called low-polygon models of Poserpro, which are the farce of the century. Helgards"Vincent" model proves that lowpoly doesn't mean buttugly.
Bopper.
-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?
XENOPHONZ posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 6:56 PM
You know, another aspect of these types of threads which always annoys me is found in the apparent underlying assumption -- on the part of some -- that a desire to have and/or to render images of 'beautiful' female figures is at the very least morally suspect; and at the worst a sure indicator of inbred, cro-magnon-like male immaturity.
The assumptive formula seems to follow these rules:
"ordinary" = "good, realistic"
"beautiful" = "immature, unrealistic, bad"
It's a good thing that the artistic masters of former eras weren't so polluted with politically correct thinking. Otherwise, a lot of the inspiration for the world's greatest art would have been consigned to the trash bin.
Lest anyone get the wrong idea: I'm all for "ordinary". "Ordinary" is good. But beauty is a reality in the world, too. And noticing the fact isn't an automatic indication of immaturity.......although, admittedly: the reaction to beauty can be a sure indicator of immaturity. But that problem is found in the observer: not in the incandescent source.
patorak posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 7:08 PM
*Lest anyone get the wrong idea: I'm all for "ordinary". "Ordinary" is good. But beauty is a reality in the world, too. And noticing the fact isn't an automatic indication of immaturity.......although, admittedly: the reaction to beauty can be a sure indicator of immaturity. But that problem is found in the observer: not in the incandescent source.
Are we talkin' scantly dressed jello wrestlers with big boobies?
bopperthijs posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 7:26 PM
"Ordinair" in dutch means : Banal, almost vulgair. And don't let Babelfish mislead you: it isn't "common"
-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?
shuy posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 7:52 PM
Guys, take it easy. Men quarrel about women since ages. Sometimes fight or even start wars, but usually women were real. You should not be angry, because somebody discredited cr2 file.
Question was why Judy is not liked. We have many answers and I think dphoadley did not want cause so serious discussion ;)
I hate when so many artiststs waste theirs time on forum instead of work with Poser and make freebies.
fls13 posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 7:53 PM
The P5s were very versatile. Judy only:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1321956&member
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1228957&member
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1252965&member
Judy and Don:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1319470&member
mathman posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 7:54 PM
IMNSHO, Judy's face is uglier than a steaming pile of dog turds .... but the body is good. As has been pointed out though, she has the potential to be turned into a good-looking gal (e.g. Farrah by Quarker).
On the other hand, V3 has a body that looks badly atrophied, and that folds up like a rag doll when bent.
bopperthijs posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 8:05 PM
*I hate when so many artiststs waste theirs time on forum instead of work with Poser and make freebies.
I wasn't very serious with my remark, and when I'm not on the forum I'm working on my freebies, but I have to stay in touch now and then.
@fls13, I looked at the renders, but besides that she has a nicer face, I still don't like the body : the shoulders are too wide, the hips are too small , the hands are too big and the elbow bents are terrible.
-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?
fls13 posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 8:18 PM
All that is fixable too, like so many vendors have done with the DAZ females. I've moved on now and do like the V4 body better. I don't use the head though, I use the Eszter head.
XENOPHONZ posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 10:20 PM
Quote - Are we talkin' scantly dressed jello wrestlers with big boobies?
No -- although such women - "real" women - actually exist. It's a relatively rare body type in the RW, but it does exist -- and it can occur naturally. So even that sort of body type isn't totally off the beam, reality-wise. Many of the 'unknown' early-1960's Italian B-movie beauties tended to fall into that category. It was also a popular thing in 1950's US -- exemplified by women like Jayne Mansfield, Mamie Van Doren, and Joi Lansing. By today's standards, many of those same women would be regarded as overweight. Their "type" still seems to be popular in the Poserverse, though.
But admittedly, the oft-cited Poser stereotype to which you refer can and likely does derive from pure adolescent fantasy. Adolescent boys have fantasized about such things since adolescent boys first existed in the world to fantasize about them. Most of those boys eventually grow up.
patorak posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 10:29 PM
*Most of those boys eventually grow up.
No way...Not us...We're still fightin' pirates at the second star to the right and on til mornin'.
Tashar59 posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 10:32 PM
"I hate when so many artiststs waste theirs time on forum instead of work with Poser and make freebies."
So learn to make your own stuff and you would not need to worry if others are making freebies
*"On the other hand, V3 has a body that looks badly atrophied, and that folds up like a rag doll when bent."
Atrophied, I thought meant wasting away. V3 is not atrophied, V4 maybe but not V3. Sure there is some mesh breakage in V3 but still bends better than the older versions and the G2 and thier spin offs.
"We have many answers and I think dphoadley did not want cause so serious discussion ;)"
Oh, I think DPH knows how these forums work when he asked that question. I think the next question should be what modifications does he do to Judy to start his next thread. That is if history does repeats itself,
patorak posted Fri, 22 August 2008 at 10:36 PM
*Atrophied, I thought meant wasting away. V3 is not atrophied, V4 maybe but not V3. Sure there is some mesh breakage in V3 but still bends better than the older versions and the G2 and thier spin offs.
I agree. Someone needs to get V4 to an all you can eat restaurant pronto!
XENOPHONZ posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 12:04 AM
Quote - *Most of those boys eventually grow up.
No way...Not us...We're still fightin' pirates at the second star to the right and on til mornin'.
True. May we never stop doing that. When we do, then it's time for the nursing home.......
XENOPHONZ posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 12:12 AM
Quote - *Atrophied, I thought meant wasting away. V3 is not atrophied, V4 maybe but not V3. Sure there is some mesh breakage in V3 but still bends better than the older versions and the G2 and thier spin offs.
I agree. Someone needs to get V4 to an all you can eat restaurant pronto!
Just as with the reality of women like Lonnie Anderson, there's also the reality of women like Twiggy (remember her?). And default V4 isn't as thin as Twiggy. Some people have such a metabolism that they always remain thin no matter how much they eat -- sigh. Others aren't so blessed.
There's all sorts of body types. And examples of those body types can be pointed to in the real world. No one body type is any more or any less "real" than any other body type. Real humans come in all shapes & sizes.
Of course, it's true that most of them don't have two heads, or naturally green skin......but examples of both of those things exist in the RW. Sadly.
Tashar59 posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 1:04 AM
"Just as with the reality of women like Lonnie Anderson, there's also the reality of women like Twiggy (remember her?). And default V4 isn't as thin as Twiggy."
Not what I was saying. I was pointing out that V3 was not atrophied, that v4 would be closer to that term than v3.
Yes I remember Twiggy. She filled out quite nicely later on as in Club Paradise (1986)
Coleman posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 4:57 AM
Sounded like "Add Virgins" to me :laugh:
Eternal Judy is a great character
mathman posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 5:01 AM
Tashar59, yes I think V3 looks atrophied ... you can see this especially when she bends at the elbow, groin or knee ... also those armpits that stop just short of the top of the shoulders ugggghh...
Tashar59 posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 3:06 PM
*"also those armpits that stop just short of the top of the shoulders ugggghh..."
That would be V4 and not V3. Are you sure your not confusing the two?
dphoadley posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 3:47 PM
Tashar59 posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 4:13 PM
Isn't that a bit ah.... for here? Doesn't bother me a in the least. I would think that would be more to that other site we can't mention but have galleries there.
xantor posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 4:18 PM
They are not actually doing anything inappropriate in the picture.
ockham posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 5:04 PM
The secret to making a popular product is to build the system around it.
Bell didn't invent the first telephone, Edison didn't invent the first light bulb,
Ford certainly didn't invent the first auto. But they became the "inventors
of record" because they understood the need to set up the entire
distribution system so that people could use the product.
Not just the bulb, but the sockets, wires, plugs, and generators;
not just the telephone but the switchboards and the installers;
not just the horseless carriage but the mechanics and dealers.
Daz seems to have caught onto this principle better than the owners of Poser.
momodot posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 5:22 PM
Interesting way of putting it ockham. I think you are right.
Re. Judy. The figure came with great clothes but I could never figure out that weird horrible face when the default Face Room head for her is so charming but it seems a far number of Poser users don't know about morphs and such. I just wish I could have tried the FBMs for Judy that came in the physical buy of Poser. I like the FBMs I have found in Freestuff though. I found making my own morphs for Judy difficult, the brreasts seem to break from the chest when I use deformers. Judy and Miki are the most realistic female figures but neither of them morph as well as the unimesh and Miki is so hi-mesh. I am glad dp made this thread though... it reminds me I need to play with Judy more.
dphoadley posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 6:00 PM
Tashar59 posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 6:20 PM
OK. guess I'm just a dirty old man.
"I found making my own morphs for Judy difficult, the brreasts seem to break from the chest when I use deformers."
Have you used "add Element to Deform"? Probably a silly question for you as long as you have been here.
I think part of the problem is the low poly but it can be done with magnets with some patience. I did this one real quick so it's not perfect but it does show it can be done. Did one side only to show effect.
patorak posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 6:21 PM
Should V4's head be atop such a classic body?
Tashar59 posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 6:26 PM
Yes you can splice them together if you want. I mentioned that Yamato did a couple of versions of her and different head. Just look at the freestuff at his site.
You can Frankenstien most figures heads to most figures bodies. Many of us do it it all the time. It's the uv's that don't match so you get a texture seam where you splice the two necks. Thats why Judy and V3 were a good match, they use the same textures.
dphoadley posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 6:52 PM
dphoadley posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 7:01 PM
Quote - Should V4's head be atop such a classic body?
What can I say, but the consensus seems to be that V4 is bigger and better, -so, as they say, if you can't beat 'em, hybridize 'em! ;=D
Personally, I don't particually like V4's body at all, and I say that after acquiring an itimate knowledge of it, vertice by vertice, that I seriously doubt anybody else in the Poserverse has, except for the ones who modeled her at DAZ. However, since Judy's body does indeed look so much more womanly, in a Rueben's kind of way, I would think that a hybrid of both the bests parts of each figure would be a good way to bridge the gap between those that prefer Daz and those that prefer the older Poser figures.
DPH
Tashar59 posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 7:07 PM
LOL. Not sure I have that script. But later tonight when I have some time I want to run her through modo and see what happens.
Right now I'm off to a Bday party for an aunt. At my age, you never know if it's the last time you see these people. You know how old your getting when you go to more funerals than weddings. LOL.
patorak posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 7:08 PM
I agree. I was wondering though if you wouldn't mind, could you shape V4's head to look a little like Judy? Just the basic shape maybe.
momodot posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 7:46 PM
Quote - Have you used "add Element to Deform"? Probably a silly question for you as long as you have been here.
No such thing as a silly question! It has been years since I was working with mags on Judy... I wonder if I wasn't adding the chest element back then? I remember I only was able to get smaller breasts by adding the morphs from EJ. I can't find that thread that said how to fix EJ to work in the Face Room but I have always wanted to trim down the number of morphs on EJ to see if that makes it easier for me to use.
mathman posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 7:55 PM
No, Tashar59, I am talking about V3.
V4's armpits aint great, but nowhere near as bad as V3.
V3's arms look like they are about to snap off at the shoulders.
dphoadley posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 8:00 PM
"You can Frankenstien most figures heads to most figures bodies. Many of us do it it all the time. It's the uv's that don't match so you get a texture seam where you splice the two necks. Thats why Judy and V3 were a good match, they use the same textures."
The V4 head in the above example is from the figure that I remapped to take V3 textures, so when I finish splicing the necks, I'll just have to go and remap Judy's body to match.
*"could you shape V4's head to look a little like Judy? Just the basic shape maybe."
Could you elucidate that a bit more, -do you mean to give her a head that's a bit longer, or narrower, or with a bit more of a pointy chin?
DPH
momodot posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 8:45 PM
LostinSpaceman posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 9:43 PM
Quote - Yes you can splice them together if you want. I mentioned that Yamato did a couple of versions of her and different head. Just look at the freestuff at his site.
You can Frankenstien most figures heads to most figures bodies. Many of us do it it all the time. It's the uv's that don't match so you get a texture seam where you splice the two necks. Thats why Judy and V3 were a good match, they use the same textures.
Actually Judy uses V2's textures and Don uses M2's textures.
jjroland posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 9:48 PM
I wonder if high rez renders of her even exist....
Anyway so far my mind has not been changed. Is it just me or is there absolutely no variety in her nipple or breast size and shape?
DP the filter applied to your latest render makes it difficult to see details.
I am: aka Velocity3d
LostinSpaceman posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 9:51 PM
Look at mine again Jill. I had to edit it while you were posting and link from PhotoBucket cuz rendo wasn't attaching my images.
jjroland posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 10:43 PM
That resolution isn't very high either. It's just a small picture - maybe photobucket is messing it up. I think that is a good looking character for what it is but I don't think it's realistic. I could see Judy being very useful in either toon renders or crowd scenes lacking detail. I just don't see her as an all around center stage model.
I am: aka Velocity3d
LostinSpaceman posted Sat, 23 August 2008 at 11:51 PM
LostinSpaceman posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 12:02 AM
Tashar59 posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 12:21 AM
*"Actually Judy uses V2's textures and Don uses M2's textures."
Your right, me bad. Thats what happens when your trying to do to many things at one time. That also means that it should have read V2 head not V3. But, no matter, as I said earlier, you can put any head you want on any figure.
DPH, I think there already is a Judy mapped for V3. I can't remember who did it, but they had remapped many of the earlier figures.
I can't do anything on my computer for another 30 min. I have an animation on the burn, thought it would be finished by the time I got home.
JoePublic posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 1:00 AM
AFAIK the only Judy hybrids out there are V2/Judy and NEA(Posette)/Judy.
All use V2 mapping.
Yes, V4's tounge actors are a real pain, and not just for hybrids.
One of her main problems is that the Poser SetUp room can't handle her multilayered cr2.
I managed to create a "V4 head on actual V3 body to get bodymorphs" hybrid that "sorta" worked, but gave up because I didn't feel like spending days rummaging through that uber complicated cr2 hunting for line breaks or comma errors to fix the broken erc.
The only version of V4.2 I use ATM is the 17k LOD LoRez version that comes free with DAZ Studio and which I modified myself.
I copied V4.2's body and head-morphs into a regular cr2 to use her in Poser.
I also DELETED all that JSM Magnet and JCM morph nonsense and replaced them with proper morphbrush fix morphs.
This not only makes her bend like an actual human being, it also free's up A LOT of precious RAM that I'd rather use for adding other stuff to a Poser scene.
She's now even lighter than Posette and renders beautifully.
Hmm, back to Judy.....
Maybe instead of plucking the remapped HighRez V4 head onto Judy and then having to remap Judy's body to V3 specs, I'd suggest to use the V4.2 LowRez 17kLOD head on Judy and then remapping that LOD head to use V2 textures.
Should be a lot easier on the nerves and faster,too.
Besides, V3's UV's are "protected" by V3's EULA, while V2's mapping are free to use.
JoePublic posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 1:03 AM
Ordinary HiRez magnet infested V4.2 on the one side, and "my" 17k LOD version with proper morphbrush joints on the other. :-)
(Yes, she's the one with proper shoulders and without lumpy thighs)
JoePublic posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 1:32 AM
JoePublic posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 1:34 AM
dphoadley posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 3:18 AM
dphoadley posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 3:21 AM
dphoadley posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 3:24 AM
Tashar59 posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 5:40 AM
Here is one of Yamato's Judy-AnAn's. I can't remember what texture, I tried about 20 before I rendered this.
patorak posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 7:14 AM
*Could you elucidate that a bit more, -do you mean to give her a head that's a bit longer, or narrower, or with a bit more of a pointy chin?
Yeah! More heart shaped. Course one could probably do that with her morphs. Probably best to wait until the two meshes are combined and the new cr2 is established.
dphoadley posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 8:37 AM
dphoadley@Patorak**
**Do you know anything about editing joint parameters? When I swivel the head, or bend it in any direction, the chin stretches and compresses like chewing gum. (although, this might have something to do also with the Cr2 not recognizing V4's upper and lower jaw objects. I'm trying to insert these actors by copy and paste via the Cr2 Editor utility. Any suggestions and advice would be welcome.
Yours truly,
DPH
patorak posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 8:45 AM
I'd have to take a look at her.
Have you tried moving her upper and lower jaw objects? This may give a clue as to the cr2 recognizing them.
dphoadley posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 8:55 AM
dphoadley@Patorak
Send me an email to dphoadley2@yahoo.com, and I'll send you a copy for evaluation. So far, I haven't been able to get the jaw and tongure objects to show up in Poser, but that might be an issue of nomenclature. I still haven't tried all my ideas yet.
DPH
momodot posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 10:00 AM
dp, have you checked the length of the final neck? It looks a bit short to me but that may be a matter of taste... I just think necks don't scale to well in poser so it would be better to add length in Wings or what ever you used for the splice if you do want to change that. Maybe she just needs her traps flattened a bit. I would love the figure remapped to either V2 or V3 or neither but I think Joe is right and you should use the LOD 17K V4.
dphoadley posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 10:16 AM
When splicing necks, it's VERY important not to change their transition coordinates, or the pieces won't stack back together right in Poser. I'll see if I can't magnetize the neck a bit to get it longer, -after I fix everything else.
DPH
momodot posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 10:37 AM
dp, it looks right from the side.
Judy has bad drop offs on the neck because of most of the neck being of the head part in the standard Judy... the spherical drop off and other JP stuff probably needs to be adusted down to below the chin. I am not good at that stuff but Joe is...
dphoadley posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 12:26 PM
momodot posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 12:29 PM
That's a cute face.
pitklad posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 2:26 PM
Attached Link: http://www.sharecg.com/v/26082/poser/Octarine_Judy2008
Gareee posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 3:19 PM
Doesn't make much sense to me.. you yourself already admit that very few people like judy anyway.. why waste more time with something that very few people might even download?
You've got good skills now.. why not just make your OWN figure?
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
dphoadley posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 3:23 PM
momodot posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 4:04 PM
Has anyone heard from phantom3D lately? His new figures were looking to be really something.
Anyone try K by kirwyn? http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/index.php?user_id=19480
Tashar59 posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 4:08 PM
Anytime I sliced two necks together I've alwasy had to adjust the JP's.
If you use the LOD version you limit who will use it. The only way to get the LOD V4 is to download and I think you need to install DS. Besides ,Gareee has a point about the lack of users to begin with. This is not a figure like Possette where everyone was using and had been improved and sliced and diced for years.
As you can see, those of us that do use her once in awhile can do all that ourselves. Not taking away what your doing. I can re-map figures too but I rarely have the patience to do it like you do. hats off to you for doing it. But maybe modeling your own figures would be the better way to go. If your going to put that much effort into rebuilding old figures because they are not the way you want them, why not put that energy into something original.
Not having enough skills is a reason to start making your own stuff to gain those skills. That's what I've been doing now. Wish I could show my latest figure but I can't, for now. NDA. But the company told me I can show it later after they are done.
dphoadley posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 4:08 PM
Quote - Has anyone heard from phantom3D lately? His new figures were looking to be really something.
Anyone try K by kirwyn? http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/index.php?user_id=19480
No see no K! Ah well....
DPH
momodot posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 4:10 PM
momodot posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 4:37 PM
patorak posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 6:24 PM
*A new face for Judy? WiktorijaV4.
Yes Sir! That's what I'm talkin' about!
LostinSpaceman posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 7:46 PM
I don't understand why folks are discouraging you in making a new Judy Hybrid. It's not like they have to use her if they don't want to but I know some of us enjoy the hybrids you've made of less that popular figures.
Tashar59 posted Sun, 24 August 2008 at 9:14 PM
"I don't understand why folks are discouraging you in making a new Judy Hybrid. It's not like they have to use her if they don't want to but I know some of us enjoy the hybrids you've made of less that popular figures."
No one is. Read what you want into it, oh, wait, you already did. No one will try to discourage you from doing that either.
dphoadley posted Mon, 25 August 2008 at 12:36 AM
My dear friends, please don't squabble. The figure is comming along nicely, and I DO believe that she'll fill a nice nitch in the Poserverse. Because the face is of a very popular figure right now, that means that there'll be a lot of Personna morphs out there for her. Because the body is medium res, she'll be easy to use with animators, plus she's specifically made for use with Walk Designer, so users of Poser 5-Pro shuld find a real boost from her creation. And, lastly, I might find a senno-Daz figure that I like, and will shut up for once! ;=D
Yours truly,
David P. Hoadley
XENOPHONZ posted Mon, 25 August 2008 at 12:47 AM
squabble squabble squabble squabble
I'm sure that your hybrid will be just fine, DPH. We'll have another re-tooled figure to add to the mix after you are done -- and there's nothing wrong with that.
lululee posted Mon, 25 August 2008 at 9:18 AM
I am looking forward to her. Your work is always stellar DPH.
cheerio lululee
LostinSpaceman posted Mon, 25 August 2008 at 11:25 AM
Quote - "I don't understand why folks are discouraging you in making a new Judy Hybrid. It's not like they have to use her if they don't want to but I know some of us enjoy the hybrids you've made of less that popular figures."
No one is. Read what you want into it, oh, wait, you already did. No one will try to discourage you from doing that either.
Obviously you didn't read the comment below the same way I did. Funny that you should assume I was referring to you. You must feel like all comments revolve around you.
Quote - Doesn't make much sense to me.. you yourself already admit that very few people like judy anyway.. why waste more time with something that very few people might even download?
If calling it wasting time isn't discouraging I don't know what is.
Gareee posted Mon, 25 August 2008 at 2:54 PM
I just think his time would be much better invested in making a totally new figure of his own.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
xantor posted Mon, 25 August 2008 at 3:10 PM
Converting a figure to have a different head is completely different from actually making a new complete figure from scratch, making a whole new figure would be much more difficult and time consuming.
Gareee posted Mon, 25 August 2008 at 3:13 PM
..and possibly more rewarding....
But that's just MY opinion. DP himself said the figure was unpopular.. why he thinks popping a new noggin on her will change people's minds is beyond me.
People who own V4 probably want V4, and in the past he's also done completely new UV mapping, and joint adjustments.. not much of a leap there to completely creating a new figure.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
LostinSpaceman posted Mon, 25 August 2008 at 3:24 PM
Well everyone develops at their own pace. As we all know well. DP knows his skill and comfort levels and if he feels he needs to work up to doing a complete figure himself by doing this, it really doesn't matter how popular the figures are. He's not doing it to make money. He's doing it to improve his own skills and to make a fairly decent figure just a little more popular and useable. In my opinion, that should never be discouraged.
momodot posted Mon, 25 August 2008 at 3:28 PM
I have been able to do a lot with morphing figures but I can't model or map... that is just a limitation I have come to accept.
I think the best base "dream figure" for me would be V3 Reduced Resolution because the mesh density is good, the mesh flow is excellent and I have no big beef with the mapping I guess. I just would love integrated genitals like Judy's genitals added as a body part, body handles for the breasts and thighs for gravity/compression effects and certainly hip and shoulder horizontal stretch added to the leg and arm stretch dials.
Why is it certain older Poser figures and some independent figures such as Tuyuko scale so well but other figures get totally wonky if you scale them?
I guess I would add to my dream figure fixed proportions on the texture maps and everything on one body map except maybe the face and eyes... I miss being able to load one texture and "apply to all" --- hand loading textures on the newer figures is a bear. Man, there has been some weird mapping over the years... remember that odd fad of putting lips and nipples on their own maps! I just figure with 4000x4000 maps why not squeeze it all on one but the face? I don't even reckon I need the face separate given I render full body... maybe just the eyes. It is easy enough to make a "big head" figure by blowing the existing facial area onto its own map using grouping and UVmapper classic.
Still, as JoePublic has said IRC... a problem with Poser is the idea of the "universal morphing figure".... I would much have prefered a standard mapping template and necks that would have let people make all sorts of figures with interchangeable heads... imagine... old and young mesh, thin and fat mesh, clothes integrated mesh, heads that can be switched at will. How often are threads started here on the forum that go "How can I get head X on Body Y?" It is clear Unimesh made money for DAZ... why wouldn't a universal neck for injectable geometry switching? Satoko had some sort of injectable geometry switch to put her head on the different DAZ figures and "K" has a geometry switch injection for integral shoes.
I wish Phantom3D was still around working on his figures... simple maps, great JC setups and no JCM magnets...
dphoadley posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 12:03 AM
Tashar59 posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 2:13 AM
Momodot, geometry swithcing would be a good idea but I don't know what the EULA(?) of the other figures would allow you to use of them. You would need to copy the top of the neck verts so they matched the bottom of the head perfectly. But I see your talking a figure designed to do all that with different heads and necks that are all UVed the same. Isn't that kind of the same as just using a morph anyways? Though I agree that seperate meshs make for better figures. Daz has proved that using the same figure and just morphing it to another figure has it's flaws So back to the geometry swithching.
And speaking of geometry switching and old figures, Anyone remember Natalia or natrixa as in this image? This figure takes advantage of geometry swithching in a big way.
*"Obviously you didn't read the comment below the same way I did. Funny that you should assume I was referring to you. You must feel like all comments revolve around you"
Well since I agreed with Gareee and then you made your post, what else would someone think. I thought it was aimed at both of us.As for that last sentence, well If I said what I think of your comment and what you can do with it, I'd get banned.
pitklad posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 5:35 AM
I love Natalia! I've made many freestuff for her in the past (I even have made yahoo group to share them) but some of my posts here didn't even have just one reply...(the discouragement we were saying)
I guess Natalia was abandoned long time ago before even Judy...
So I keep doing stuff for her just for personal use... I was working a V2 UVS version. Tashar59 if you or anyone else is interested tell me and I'll let you know, maybee if someone else want it I'll get a motive to finish it earlier :biggrin:
BTW very nice clothes on your Natalia, are those converted clothes?
As for the switch on the head, if you create a new switchable neck also you wont have a problem, just encode both to the original figure. I've made NeaP4 with switchable head to default Posette
Dale B posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 5:36 AM
Yay! Natalia surfaces yet again! Dacort's figures are excellent for the fantasy genre, aren't they?
mathman posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 6:16 AM
Hey, pitklad, ti kanis ?
dphoadley posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 10:13 AM
LostinSpaceman posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 2:00 PM
Quote - *"Obviously you didn't read the comment below the same way I did. Funny that you should assume I was referring to you. You must feel like all comments revolve around you"
Well since I agreed with Gareee and then you made your post, what else would someone think. I thought it was aimed at both of us.As for that last sentence, well If I said what I think of your comment and what you can do with it, I'd get banned.
No loss there.
LostinSpaceman posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 2:21 PM
Quote - *"Obviously you didn't read the comment below the same way I did. Funny that you should assume I was referring to you. You must feel like all comments revolve around you"
Well since I agreed with Gareee and then you made your post, what else would someone think. I thought it was aimed at both of us.As for that last sentence, well If I said what I think of your comment and what you can do with it, I'd get banned.
Gareee and I have a history of disagreeing with each other but we don't go around insulting one another with comments like the one you made about me reading into the postings something that wasn't there. Last time I checked, he and I were still on friendly terms. If you can figure out how to disagree without being disagreeable, I'll rescind my "No Loss" comment, but to date, I've never seen you attempt that with anyone you disagree with. The fact that you find yourself unable to comment for fear of being banned just goes to show your not ready to disagree amicably.
Gareee posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 4:34 PM
Hell yeah we're still freinds. People all have different views of things, and that's what makes discussion valuable.
DP's done some pretty amazing hacking, but I'd liek to see him do something that might be more popular mainstream.
How about some G2 or syndey hacking? Or Neftoon Gal's head on V4's body?
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
LostinSpaceman posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 4:43 PM
For what it's worth, I never meant you intentionally tried to discourage DP, but if someone had told me I was wasting my time when I thought I was doing something to improve my skills, it would have discouraged me. I knew you didn't intend for it to sound that way.
Tashar59 posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 5:10 PM
*"I love Natalia! I've made many freestuff for her in the past (I even have made yahoo group to share them) but some of my posts here didn't even have just one reply...(the discouragement we were saying)
I guess Natalia was abandoned long time ago before even Judy...
So I keep doing stuff for her just for personal use... I was working a V2 UVS version. Tashar59 if you or anyone else is interested tell me and I'll let you know, maybee if someone else want it I'll get a motive to finish it earlier 
BTW very nice clothes on your Natalia, are those converted clothes?"
I have never abandoned Natalia. Neglected, forgotten, misplaced, that was the scary one. Bought her so long ago, I can't find the recite and would be out a great figure. But never abandoned.
A V2 UVS version would be wonderful. Natalia had 2 major problems. Price, it looked high for a figure and I don't think many realised how much it included. I guess that people think it's cheeper to pay for a figure and then for the morphs and then for the textures and so on. Textures, there just wasn't enough good quality textures. I'm guessing that a majority of users check the market before buying. The exception to that rule would be Daz addicts. They'll buy anything if Daz says so.
The clothes are Riannon's Elsa's clothes. I didn't really convert them in anything. I did it the way we used to with scaling and magnets and parenting.
*"Dacort's figures are excellent for the fantasy genre, aren't they?"
Yes they are.
Tashar59 posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 5:33 PM
*"I don't understand why folks are discouraging you in making a new Judy Hybrid."
That says more than one. BTW you are always throwing those kind of comments into a thread and get others to post all the " Nothing wrong with it, I would like it, shame one you to dare have an opinion other than ours" posts.
I was making fun of your comment and you turned it into direct insulting comments about my personage. Yes I said I'd get banned if I said what I thought last night, havn't changed my view of you but with your recent directed insult at me, "I'll rescind my "No Loss" comment, but to date, I've never seen you attempt that with anyone you disagree with. The fact that you find yourself unable to comment for fear of being banned just goes to show your not ready to disagree amicably." I thought it needing addressing.
Heres a thought, maybe next time you want to look down your nose at someones opinion, state who you are refering to instead of using a plural and clumping others with opinions that are simular or agree with the person your original intentions were for.
Was that amicable enough for you?
PapaBlueMarlin posted Tue, 26 August 2008 at 5:33 PM
In my opinion, the problem with Judy is the same problem with all the CL/EF/SM figures, including the G2 figures, is that they were never fully developed. For a company that makes Poser, I think it's always been hoped that the figures would progress towards the higher-end, not necessarily to compete with DAZ, but to certainly be comparable. But instead, the P5/6/7 figures don't have nearly enough face or body morphs to be truly versatile. The G2 figures are the same body with different heads - even the DAZ unimesh has different bodies. Some independent artists have done a fantastic job at re-inventing figures like Judy, but I think people for the most part were already turned off.
Whazizname posted Wed, 27 August 2008 at 7:45 AM
Here is something that might interest fans and foes of the (included with) Poser people: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2748442 (:
Gareee posted Wed, 27 August 2008 at 8:39 AM
It's just like Neftoon Gal.. I'd LOVE to do more things for her, release my tink dress n sucjh, but since she wasn;t available for SO long, and Neftis's new website is probabl very low traffic, releasing something for her wouldn't probably sell enough to even make it worthwhile.
I'd love to support some nitch characters, but there just isn't enough interest to make it worthwhile... which is sad.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
LostinSpaceman posted Wed, 27 August 2008 at 11:26 AM
Who says you can't do a freebie or two just because? Does it all have to be about the cash back? Don't get me wrong, I know your time is valuable and you're actually doing this for a living but if you really want to do something for such a little known figure, do it just because you want to not because you have to. It might even inject a little fun in your work a day life.
Gareee posted Wed, 27 August 2008 at 11:54 AM
I do freebies all the time for my products, but I do this for a living. If I spend 3 weeks just doing freebies, that's 3 weeks of no income at all.
How many weeks can you go without a paycheck?
And I already have a blast doing what I do. I love being able to pick n chose whatever I want to make.
In the past a back catalog of products meant you could go a month or so, learning new skills and software, but this year, even though I have over 30 products in my backcatalog, less then 20% of my monthly income is from my older products. If I don't put out something new, I don't make anything at all practically.
I didn't put anything out In Jan or Feb this year, and my total income for both months was only $600.. I couldn't even afford one month's house payments with that amount, let alone two!
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
LostinSpaceman posted Wed, 27 August 2008 at 8:57 PM
Yeah I know your doing this for a living. I did say as much. I just thought a clothing freebie would be a fun change for you. Besides, you know what product I'm still waiting for you to release!
Tashar59 posted Thu, 28 August 2008 at 12:33 AM
"I have over 30 products in my backcatalog, less then 20% of my monthly income is from my older products."
That just shows how much this market is, "flavour of the month."
dphoadley posted Thu, 28 August 2008 at 12:47 AM
Attached Link: A New Judy Frankenstein is in the Offing!
Gareee posted Thu, 28 August 2008 at 8:30 AM
Quote - "I have over 30 products in my backcatalog, less then 20% of my monthly income is from my older products."
That just shows how much this market is, "flavour of the month."
It didn't used to be this way.. but I think much of the blame lieds at daz's feet, When they launched the new store a year or so ago, they lost catagories, themes, and the search engine is far from accurate at times.
For instanmce, try to find all V4 shoes at daz.. you can;t, so you are left just trying various search combinations, or just sorting through thousands of products now.
This time 2years ago, I'd say 40% or more of my monthyly income was from my back catalog.
If people can't locate products though, you can;t sell them.
Excellent example I saw recently was people amazed at Nybras, daz's demon. They wanted to know where that "new" figure came from, and in theory, since he's a daz original mainstream figure, he and all his accessories should be simple to locate there, right?
Rendo isn't any better.. for every killer new product, there are 10 junk releases, burying the great stuff in a pile of crap. And CP's store is so slow, that browsing there is now one of the prime tortures in hell for poser users who pass on.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
Khai posted Thu, 28 August 2008 at 8:36 AM
And CP's store is so slow, that browsing there is now one of the prime tortures in hell for poser users who pass on.
you been there lately? here, it's just as fast as Rendo's store.... (they did a lot of server work recently)
Gareee posted Thu, 28 August 2008 at 8:37 AM
I only visited a few times during the update, and there were varous issues then... I'll have to revisit, especially since I got a pitchfork poking my in my behind... :)
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
dbowers22 posted Thu, 28 August 2008 at 1:40 PM
Quote - dphoadley@Patorak**
**Do you know anything about editing joint parameters? When I swivel the head, or bend it in any direction, the chin stretches and compresses like chewing gum. (although, this might have something to do also with the Cr2 not recognizing V4's upper and lower jaw objects. I'm trying to insert these actors by copy and paste via the Cr2 Editor utility. Any suggestions and advice would be welcome.
Yours truly,
DPH
Just to learn how to create figures, I made a simple, crude, man figure in Wings3D and
then imported the object file into Poser. Then I went into the Setup-up room to bone it.
To make a long story short, after I took him back to Pose room, I too had problems with
the head bending like chewing gum (As well as several other body parts).
Turns out you can use the Joint Editor to fix this (Shift+Ctrl+J).
The just click on the body part you want to fix. Let's do the head, click on the head.
The Joint Editor defaults to Center.
Don't worry about this one for now. Instead use the pull-down to select Side-Side
Make sure Display Deformer is checked and Spherical Falloff Zones is un-checked.
Now go to the parameter dial and move the head form side to side.
You should see two green lines and two read lines below them. Go to the end of
each line with your mouse and you will see a circle with a dot in it. Use this to
move the green lines and the red lines up up and down and this should fix
the side to side distortion. Now do the same for Bend. (You may need to use
the side cameras for this).
Now for Twist. Instead of lines, you just have one black line with a green bar on the
top and a red bar on the bottom. Move these bars up or down to fix the distortions
in the twist.
Now if you are still having some problems, go back to Center on the Joint Editor
and try moving the centers up and down (The circle and dot will be in the middle
instead of on the ends of the lines for this one.) This is a last resort because it
can mess up other things. The other ones won't hurt anything but that particular
body part.
Hope this helps.
dbowers22 posted Thu, 28 August 2008 at 1:52 PM
moogal posted Thu, 28 August 2008 at 3:37 PM
I made one appealing figure with Judy because I was convinced the mesh had potential. I went to pose the figure and found the rigging to be horribly broken. Bending of the upper and middle body horribly distorted the lower body, and the bending did not even seem to centered correctly. I found her range of acceptable looking poses to be very limited. I thought I could fix it by modifying the joint envelopes, but never found a satisfactory solution.
Faery_Light posted Thu, 28 August 2008 at 5:02 PM
I played around a bit trying to see how good I could make Judy look. I used Faceshop and the faceroom in P5 to do a face morph. She came out nice. :) I've started a thread for her new face. DP, I'm facinated by what you're doing, grafting one head to a new body...wow! She' looking good from what I see.
Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.
xantor posted Thu, 28 August 2008 at 10:15 PM
To make twist work properly in the head, in the joint editor, select twist and make sure that the small green line is slightly below the chin.
dbowers22 posted Fri, 29 August 2008 at 11:03 AM
Quote - To make twist work properly in the head, in the joint editor, select twist and make sure that the small green line is slightly below the chin.
Or for a more detailed explanation of how to use the joint editor, see my above post.
It may also be necessary to adjust side to side and bend, and maybe even the
joint centers.
xantor posted Fri, 29 August 2008 at 12:02 PM
Quote - > Quote - To make twist work properly in the head, in the joint editor, select twist and make sure that the small green line is slightly below the chin.
Or for a more detailed explanation of how to use the joint editor, see my above post.
It may also be necessary to adjust side to side and bend, and maybe even the
joint centers.
I was just being more specific about how to fix the twist.
patorak posted Fri, 29 August 2008 at 5:09 PM
*I was just being more specific about how to fix the twist.
Once the joint is twisted up, one shouln't have to fix it.
