http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=discussions&ItemID=878738

im afraid to actually start looking in the marketplaces there because of what i might find.

i wonder what this guys Rosity username is.

Oh, geez.  it never ends, does it?  I'd check the guy's store, though, it looks like this may be a comment on one of your textures on a SL character....just a suggestion.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Gabriel - don't go digging in second life, will ceriously make your skin crawl with the number of violations out there.

Doesn't help much that daz studio has a second life exporter - never tried it myself but when I read the announcement my eyes rolled, my stomach turned.

Secondlife, tubers, warez kiddies, gallery theifs - Poser sure has gone to the dogs.

WTF were they thinking putting a second life exporter in D|S? Daz doesnt have enough infringements to deal with as is, they have to make it easier for thieves?

Wait....WHAT???  Good god, I need to pay more attention.  A SL exporter?  oh my freaking god...shakes head  that's on the top of the list of "Really horrible stupid bad ideas".  Sorry, but it is.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - WTF were they thinking putting a second life exporter in D|S? Daz doesnt have enough infringements to deal with as is, they have to make it easier for thieves?

There are a special set of primitives for SL (I believe the correct name is "sculpties").
The only things exported are normal maps based on the reshaping of the "special" primitives.

does D|S do that ? I know Hexagon will (until I figure out how to get rid of the damn tab anyway)

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Better watch out messing around in Second Life -- you might end up with a crazy woman breaking into your apartment, tying up her dog with duct tape in your bathroom, and then waiting around to kidnap you at gunpoint.......but hey: it's all in a day's work in the realm of Second Life.......where off-center folks might come around lookin' for love.  Stealing stuff......?  Yeah, that's a mere hobby in such an immersive virtual world.  Where fake fantasy replaces the nastiness of having to deal with reality (and with real relationships) -- for some.

http://cbs3.com/local/kimberly.jernigan.second.2.801089.html

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

I don't use daz Studio I've just at one point read the Daz3D marketing about some second life plugin exporter thingy.  Just seemed really bad to me at the time.

It's in Hexagon that I know of, one of many reasons I dropped using hex and since Hex is now turned into a plug for DS, another reason of many that I droped Hex, I would not be surprised if there is some DS/Hex connection to the sculpties.

Remember eF made everyone that wanted to know about the poser launch had to use Second Life and then you were told you needed it for the Faceshop launch. So companies are promoting this thing. Kind of explains ArtZone a bit.

Secondlife sculpties are primitives that export as a small TGA bitmap that can be used to create small building blocks in the program. There's no worry about V4 or anything of any complexity being exported to Secondlife.  Hex can make sculpties. There's nothing listed in the DS features, at DAZ, to indicate that it can export to SL, but I don't know if it's a capability that wouldn't be listed on the website.

SL is a low poly environment with figures on par with Poser 2 figures. You can download those figures and their templates from SL. I looked up the max texture size for the program and was surprised that it could be as large as 1024x1024. I thought it was much smaller.

Considering that you're dealing with a "profissional", who has many satisfied "costumers", it's not likely that this person has the skill to transfer a Poser figure texture to an SL figure. It's more likely he's selling artwork in SL.

About the only thing that can be readily exported from Poser to SL are BVH motions. Models cannot be imported into SL. Although textures could be stolen, it would take a fair amount of work to do it because mapping is different. The problem isn't as big as it seems. The primary amount of theft in SL is from other SL merchants because it's the easiest stuff to steal that is compatible in that world.

My visual indexes of Poser content are at http://www.sharecg.com/pf/rgagnon

I have seen so many secondlife models that are from or based off poser models, textures, etc.

now I dunno how it's done but it's gotta be pretty simple as I've seen several secondlife stores with 'copies' or similar poser models etc.  it's kinda scarey when ya just look and see.

again, I dunno much about it - the very thought of second life/SIMS/online MOGGRGG (what ever that acronym is) scare me.

I'm trying to have a life - I don't need to play one on the computer hahaha.

I didn't know about the SL exporter for DS either.  I've never been to SL either.  Is there a way to find out if other members here are being impersonated there?

*I didn't know about the SL exporter for DS either.  I've never been to SL either.  Is there a way to find out if other members here are being impersonated there?

A month or so ago,  I warned everyone that daz studio was just a vehicle to port Poser content into video games.

maybe I miss spoke  - sorry.

apparently with Daz Studio you can export bvh file for use in Second Life and Hexagon 2.5 has the SL primitives.

All this ripoff is terrible!!!!!!!!

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
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While Second Life, no doubt, is infested with idiots, thieves and non-creative parasites, it would be a mistake for content creators to shiver with revulsion and dismiss it utterly. I’ve heard news that some independent Second Life modelers and texture creators as earning over $40,000 a year.

Is catering to Second Lifers any less noble than trying to capture the imagination of the Poser market  with the 100,000th V4 G string?

Personally, Second Life is off-limits due to my 56k connection. I’m curious about what it looks like there, and how people manage to entertain themselves in a non-game environment.   

 

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Quote - Is catering to Second Lifers any less noble than trying to capture the imagination of the Poser market  with the 100,000th V4 G string?

umm, yes.

[](http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/3554/faaator5.jpg)

Quote - Better watch out messing around in Second Life -- you might end up with a crazy woman breaking into your apartment, tying up her dog with duct tape in your bathroom, and then waiting around to kidnap you at gunpoint.......but hey: it's all in a day's work in the realm of Second Life.......where off-center folks might come around lookin' for love.  Stealing stuff......?  Yeah, that's a mere hobby in such an immersive virtual world.  Where fake fantasy replaces the nastiness of having to deal with reality (and with real relationships) -- for some.

http://cbs3.com/local/kimberly.jernigan.second.2.801089.html

if anyone touched my Fat™ with duct-tape (or even Velcro for that matter) theyd end up fertilizing a remote Canadian muskeg :)

same goes if some crazed Second-Lifer tries making baby Fats with her :mad:

Attached Link: http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat072706.html

> Quote - I have seen so many secondlife models that are from or based off poser models, textures, etc.

I've seen a lot of Poser models based on movies and TV shows and fashion designs. Those kinds of things are going to happen. Fashion design is not yet covered by copyright law in the US, but it has been considered. A few countries have already expanded their copyright protection to such designs, though I don't know if the language is worded such that it would preclude 3D models that don't compete against their real world products.

If a model is similar to a Poser item, somebody in SL built it from scratch with that program's primitives. I suppose that a texture, from a Poser product, could be remapped into SL, but that would take a fair amount of effort. That's more effort than the average SL thief wants to do--or is even capable of doing. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but it'll represent a smaller percentage of copyright violations.

DAZ has an island in SL, but I don't know if they've marketed any products there. SL does represent an additional outlet for talented modelers and texture artists. Businesses that thumb their noses at new technologies and new marketing outlets tend to fare less well than those that seize new opportunities.

My visual indexes of Poser content are at http://www.sharecg.com/pf/rgagnon

Quote - > Quote - I have seen so many secondlife models that are from or based off poser models, textures, etc.

I've seen a lot of Poser models based on movies and TV shows and fashion designs. Those kinds of things are going to happen. .

a Poser merchant creating a 'Sin City' inspired outfit is not the same as a Second Life merchant ripping off a Poser merchant's copyrighted textures, converting it to a lower res, and selling it for profit under their own name.
there have been several cases of direct thefts from Poser content to Second Life content.

noone cares about Second Life merchants being 'inspired' by outfits or characters in the Poser marketplaces.... but they are stealing actual content with no regards to copyrights, and now we even have Second Life merchants criminally impersonating Poser top sellers.

what cracks me up is that when their stolen content is in turn being stolen by other Second Life merchants and/or utilities like CopyBot, all of a sudden they are up in arms and talking about copyrights :rolleyes:

Quote - If a model is similar to a Poser item, somebody in SL built it from scratch with that program's primitives. I suppose that a texture, from a Poser product, could be remapped into SL, but that would take a fair amount of effort. That's more effort than the average SL thief wants to do--or is even capable of doing. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but it'll represent a smaller percentage of copyright violations.

it is a lot easier to take someone else's texture and adapt it to new UVs than it is to texture something from scratch and blend hundreds of little snippets of photos together into an even and seamless skin texture.
despite having radically different UVs, i could take a finished Vicky 4 skin texture and adapt it to Vicky 1 much faster than i could texture Vicky 1 from scratch... and it would take far less skill. same would go for adapting a low-res version of a clothing item - depending on the clothing the brunt of the work could be the textures, and it would be quite easy to make a low-res version of an item and use the pre-made textures.

there is obviously effort saved and easy profits to be made otherwise these people would not be doing it.

Quote - > Quote - Is catering to Second Lifers any less noble than trying to capture the imagination of the Poser market  with the 100,000th V4 G string?

umm, yes.

There's worse -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/01/sickos_in_sadville/

Ok, I understand there are some sick puppies at Second Life, but I still don’t understand the point intended. Are you and Blackheart implying that Second Life’s participants are morally repugnant as a group because of the deviancy of some individuals? 

On the face of it, that seems illogical.

If my wallet was taken in China Town I wouldn't hold it against the Chinese generally.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Quote - Ok, I understand there are some sick puppies at Second Life, but I still don’t understand the point intended. Are you and Blackheart implying that Second Life’s participants are morally repugnant as a group because of the deviancy of some individuals? 

On the face of it, that seems illogical.

If my wallet was taken in China Town I wouldn't hold it against the Chinese generally.

We could use the same logic to group them together as one like they do with everyone that uses SL.  Since some poser users render some pretty deviant works, and some have even stolen content from others...they must be doing the same thing as well.  Afterall...if some do it, they all must.  Some really f'd up logic you guys use at times.

im sure theres nothing wrong with the average user of SL. the problem is that both the game and the marketplaces attract the dredges of society and there is absolutely no action by the devs or community site admins to stop it.

please point me to any Poser community where blatant theft, copyright infringements, criminal impersonation, virtual bestiality, virtual child molestation, virtual prostitution, etc are allowed to run rampant with absolutely no action from the moderation.
even Renderotica is a police state compared to SL.

in my very limited exposure to SL i have noticed that the conveniently apathetic attitude of Linden Labs is mirrored in Second Life online communities and storefronts. the more they drag their feet and close their eyes the more money they continue to make. its absolutely disgusting.

Quote - in my very limited exposure to SL i have noticed that the conveniently apathetic attitude of Linden Labs is mirrored in Second Life online communities and storefronts. the more they drag their feet and close their eyes the more money they continue to make. its absolutely disgusting.

Can't someone take legal action against Linden Labs to get them to do something about it or close SL down?  

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Attached Link: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1170237755271

According to the below thread, in the copyright forum, there are a number of Poser communities thriving with copyright infringements that aren't being moderated to remove the infringements. [ http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2746254](http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2746254) One could argue that they're not Poser communities, but I don't think that there's an official definition out there.

If you do some searching about the earlier mentioned forbidden topics and "Poser", I'm sure that you'll find quite a few sites using Poser artwork to represent all kinds of deviant sexual behavior, though they may not be Poser-only communities. Since there is no Poser equivalent to SL yet, there's no way to make a real comparison. Since I'm not an SL member (I looked into it when some friends joined, but was on dial-up till recently, so never joined), I don't know how prevalent the sexual deviancy is. I'd rather people virtually satisfied their deviant libidos than take it into the real world. With the prevalence of nudity and sexual content in even the Renderosity galleries,  there are more than enough ultraconservative communities in this country that would consider this an immoral site. One person's sexual moralities isn't necessarily consistent with another's. As long as a person isn't being nonconsensually harmed, I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about what people do in the privacy of their homes.

I did a search in the Renderosity copyright forum and didn't get a single hit for SecondLife. That doesn't make it sound as if there is a world class problem of Poser textures being infringed in SL. Just because a texture can be copied doesn't necessarily mean that it is happening in a widescale fashion. After all, the reports of rampant Poser infringements are coming from people that aren't members of the SL community. Before everybody gets all accusatory, it would be nice to highlight at least a few specific instances so that a real discussion can take place rather than speculate on impressions of short visits to the site.

There are quite a few copyright infringements mentioned within the copyright forum for products in that have been in the Renderosity store. The admins work to fix those problems, but they still occur fairly regularly. There will always be somebody out to make a quick buck and doesn't have the moral backbone to be concerned about how that buck is made. The posts I've read have mostly been fairly simple thefts such as stealing a V4 texture for use on a V4 character. Although it's certainly possible to remap a V3 texture to use on V4, most thieves aren't interested in doing a lot of work. Maybe somebody has stolen a V3 texture and remarketed it for V4, but I'm not aware of it happening. The same practices will happen in SL because it's a lot easier stealing an SL texture and remarketing it than trying to remap a Poser texture into SL. It's not enough to speculate what can be done and then jump to the conclusion that there's a horrible problem with everybody stealing Poser works in SL. It may well be happening, but having real cases to talk about still beats imagined wrongs.

Some quick Google searches on Linden crackdowns found articles of the company going after in-world banks, gambling, sexual activity, and a variety of other things. It doesn't sound as if they're allowing lawless activities to occur without penalty. I don't know if Blackhearted made an official report to have them cancel the account of the user stealing his identify. It would be good to know how long it takes for them to ban the account.

SL users purchase a million dollars in goods every day. That would indicate that a lot of honest users are spending a lot of money at the site. If it was easy to steal everything, that much money would not be changing hands because everything would be free.

My visual indexes of Poser content are at http://www.sharecg.com/pf/rgagnon

over the years ive read of several examples of Poser -> SL infringements, and there have been many threads about it. there is one example posted above. i dont have the time to go digging for more, this guy has already wasted enough of my time.

i have sent the site administration a letter -- waiting to see what sortof action, if any, they take. my guess is that they will go for the typical internet cop-out that they can do nothing unless presented with an official court order.

people purchasing millions of dollars a day does nothing to prove the honesty of legitimacy of Second Life... only that there is a massive market and that there is a lot of money up for grabs -- which will draw thieves, scammers and infringers like shit draws flies.

Hmmm... much like the Poser community if you look at it from the outside only. And quite frankly I thought we weren't supposed to bash other sites in the forums here in the first place!

Quote - Although textures could be stolen, it would take a fair amount of work to do it because mapping is different.

Well that just changed -> TC2 - Second Life Avatar

nruddock, you beat me to posting that!

youve gotta be fucking kidding me.
its not bad enough that people are stealing it on their own, we have to make it even easier for them?

but its more money in daz's coffers so its all good, right?

From the DAZ sell page:
*Ever wanted to use one of your favorite Poser textures in the Second Life world?  TC2 Plugins add the ability to convert to and from an additional model type. This particular plugin adds the ability to convert textures to use on your Linden Labs Second Life Avatar.

**ON ITS FACE **this endorses and encourages violation of copyright.  "Your favorite Poser textures" are copyrighted material, and this kind of use is very plainly illegal.

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Quote - youve gotta be fucking kidding me.
its not bad enough that people are stealing it on their own, we have to make it even easier for them?

but its more money in daz's coffers so its all good, right?

uh, yeah that pretty much sums it up.

Quote - From the DAZ sell page:
*Ever wanted to use one of your favorite Poser textures in the Second Life world?  TC2 Plugins add the ability to convert to and from an additional model type. This particular plugin adds the ability to convert textures to use on your Linden Labs Second Life Avatar.

**ON ITS FACE **this endorses and encourages violation of copyright.  "Your favorite Poser textures" are copyrighted material, and this kind of use is very plainly illegal.

Naaa there are notices about copyright and not selling etc the SL converted texture:

http://textureconvertor.com/plugins.asp

Linden Labs - Second Life Avatar*

Second Life is a phenomenon that has swept the globe, and now finally you can use those favourite Poser world texture sets on your Second Life Avatar! Male or female Second Life figure textures can be created with this plugin. For more information on using your textures in Second Life - click through to our* Second Life Walkthrough*.

Unless you are the original copyright owner of the textures you converted - Second Life textures may only be used on your own personal avatar and may not be transfered, shared or sold in the Second Life online world.

*Here is a gun and a lot of crack.....now play nice :P

**Quote - ON ITS FACE **this endorses and encourages violation of copyright.  "Your favorite Poser textures" are copyrighted material, and this kind of use is very plainly illegal.

any way you look at it its infringements galore. even if the person converting it for Second Life is not selling it and is only doing it for personal use, once it is in Second Life it is easily available to anyone that 'sees' your avatar ingame: there are copy bots widely available that harvest SL content.

this is against the Poser EULAs. i cant believe that
a) 3D Universe created this bullshit
b) Daz is actually selling it, knowing what will result (theyre not stupid)

but hey, itll make money... because thats all its about: making your 50% cut off a $5 plugin and fucking hundreds of texture creators in the process.

Quote - Naaa there are notices about copyright and not selling etc the SL converted texture:

http://textureconvertor.com/plugins.asp

It is very irresponsible for DAZ to not put those warnings VERY PROMINENTLY all over the sell page - obviously making a sale is the big priority rather than complying with copyright law.  Very disappointing, DAZ!

Just transferring the texture files to the Linden servers, even if no user ever sees them, is a violation of copyright (it's a copy!).

My Freebies

Quote - Unless you are the original copyright owner of the textures you converted - Second Life textures may only be used on your own personal avatar and may not be transfered, shared or sold in the Second Life online world.

from the Rosity EULA:

Quote - The Buyer may not redistribute this archive file, in whole or in part. The Buyer may not store it any place on a network or on the Internet where it may be referenced by a third party. Buyer acquires the copyright to any derivative works created using this work, provided none of the original materials can be extracted from the derivative work by any means.
If Artist can show that any of the original material can be extracted from Buyer's derivative work,
Artist can demand both the original and derivative work, and all copies thereof be deleted.

by converting it to a Second Life avatar skin, you are violating the EULA in several ways:

1. you are essentially 'distributing' the texture to anyone that sees your avatar
2. it is extractable through copy bots that run rampant in SL (and always will)
3. by uploading your avatar skin you are actually granting Linden Labs a royalty free license to use and distribute that content - even to third parties. you do not have the right to grant this.

Quote - Recently, the topic of intellectual property rights and virtual worlds has taken center stage. On Monday, Linden Labs reported that Second Life had been invaded by a “copybot”, a nefarious program capable of duplicating resident’s creative content. Because the Second Life economy is propped on the sale of user-generated content, the copybot was essentially stealing people’s intellectual (or virtual) property. In the copy-bot’s wake, Second Life residents were finally challenged with the predicament — Is the content that we create in a virtual world our own? Or does it belong to the owner of that world?

In Second Life, residents create unique clothing, buildings, hairstyles and artwork, etc., to sell for virtual dollars that can be exchanged for real money. As a result, virtual intellectual property is tied to a real-world dollar amount. Yet, Linden Lab’s terms of service agreement has the following to offer:

“…you understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the service, you automatically grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant) to Linden Lab: (a) a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to (i) use, reproduce and distribute your Content within the Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service, and (ii) use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service;”

and 4, sending it to the Linden servers at all is a copyright violation all by itself.

My Freebies

Quote - > **Quote - ON ITS FACE **this endorses and encourages violation of copyright.  "Your favorite Poser textures" are copyrighted material, and this kind of use is very plainly illegal.

any way you look at it its infringements galore. even if the person converting it for Second Life is not selling it and is only doing it for personal use, once it is in Second Life it is easily available to anyone that 'sees' your avatar ingame: there are copy bots widely available that harvest SL content.

this is against the Poser EULAs. i cant believe that
a) 3D Universe created this bullshit
b) Daz is actually selling it, knowing what will result (theyre not stupid)

but hey, itll make money... because thats all its about: making your 50% cut off a $5 plugin and fucking hundreds of texture creators in the process.

As I already said, You've been bashing SL for all this BS that exists right here at home. Frankly I'm no longer surprised by anything that happens in this or any other online "Community".

I thought the TC2 SL plugin would just create a render for your avatar in SL.

I know nothing about SL other than when Poser creators get ripped off and there is some hub bub about it.

HEY!  it's September!  something had to go to hell right?!  hahahaha.

Quote - I thought the TC2 SL plugin would just create a render for your avatar in SL.

Quote - Ever wanted to use one of your favorite Poser textures in the Second Life world? TC2 Plugins add the ability to convert to and from an additional model type. This particular plugin adds the ability to convert textures to use on your Linden Labs Second Life Avatar. 

Always open

What's Included & Features

Features- Adds Second Life Avatar to the TC2 Human conversion category

• Includes head, upperbody, lowerbody and eye texture conversion.
• Output saved automatically as transparent .PNG so that default Second Life eyelashes still work.
• Single way conversion - will convert from any other compatible human figure
• For more information please visit: Texture Converter.com
• Note: Simplified Poser format Avatars can be downloaded from http://secondlife.com/community/avatar.php

Note:Second Life Avatars use the same texture map for both feet, this should be taken into account when converting more detailed textures.

"Avatar" in Second Life terms is not the same as a forum avatar here - it's a 3d model that is rigged and animated, basically just like a Poser figure.

My Freebies

It's clear Daz doesn't care if people use their textures for their personal avatars at Second Life. Second LIfers should be advised to steer clear of Renderosity and use Daz products for their avatar skins.

Should Daz ever decide they have a problem with the redistribution to Second Life servers, their selling of the TC2 SL plugin would get the case laughed out of court. 

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

These people at second life are amazing they sell my texutes and their dman excuse is oh I am just sharing.  My answer to that is sure buddy for a price you are.  At least I had them removed but believe me when I say they have stolen heaps from vendor they have no damn talent and are complete fools this is why they do it.

I dont call them second lifers I call them Second Losers.

Angela

What I want to know is why is it that Daz did not get the point that this program will be used to rip of vendors characters.

I'd like to know why any Daz vendors who object  would continue to distribute their textures through Daz while this SL texture convertor is being sold by Daz.  

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Send C&D's to DAZ and 3D Universe.  They are facilitating copyright infringement. 

DAZ's problem is they dumped a lot of money into their Second Life Island that is more deserted than Gilligan's Island.  And less interesting.

Attached Link: http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2007/10/herman-miller-c.html

There is a flag that can be set to prevent the sharing of textures and objects in SecondLife, but it seems that the copybots, that somebody unleashed, make that feature moot. Linden will delete accounts that use it as a TOS violation, but that requires finding and reporting the problem on a one-by-one basis. That's the same real world problem with copyright violations on the internet. The problem in SL is a subset of the larger problem on the net. In terms of hurting merchant profits, the copyright violations outside of SL are a significantly greater issue. That's not to excuse what's happening in SL, but more a matter of putitng it in perspective.

The point I'm trying to make is that the problem in SL does not equate to there being a worse class of people who use that online community than what exists outside of that community. I'm always concerned when people make wide aspersions against various groups. I was amazed at the amount of vitriol I received when I announced that I'd created a Poser forum in MySpace. People need to separate emotions from logic and not so blindly accept media hyperbole that is used to sell circulation to advertisers. The vast majority of SL members are not thieves or bad people. The million dollars a day being exchanged in that world attests to the honesty of the majority of members. Where there is a lot of money changing hands, there will be thieves. It doesn't matter whether we're talking SL, the net, or real world.

The real solution to the copyright problems in SL would be for Linden to eventually do away with converting their SL money to real money for the general in-world populace. That wouldn't stop all thefts, but would minimize it because there would be no real world profits to be made. They could then authorize real stores on a case by case basis that could earn real money from Linden sales. Controlling who can have a store reduces the amount of copyright violations and makes it easier to control when it happens. That would take more work for them, but having a virtual environment that can readily compromise copyrights puts more responsibility on them to protect copyrights. Other virtual worlds are controlled wholly by the companies that run them and users cannot introduce or readily change elements in those worlds.

I'd have to agree that the new texture converter plug-in is going to be subject to rampant abuse. I'd at least hope that it downsizes the texture to the low resolution of a P2 figure.

Furniture maker, Herman Miller, took an interesting approach to SL vendors selling knock-offs of their real world products and I've provided a link the article. Herman Miller took a nice proactive direction to solving the problem by selling offical wares in SL. I have no idea how that approach worked in the long run.

I wonder what went wrong with DAZ's entry into SL. They invested a substantial amount of time and money to establish a presence there and abandoned it (though they must still be paying the monthly fee for maintaining the island). It seemed they were hoping for merchant support that never came.

My visual indexes of Poser content are at http://www.sharecg.com/pf/rgagnon

Well if you read the DAZ threads on TC2 you'll find that apparently nobody believes that there are "CopyBots" that can capture any texture uploaded to the SL servers. Maybe someone needs to provide links to the proof that those bots exist.

Maybe it would be a good idea to add a new paragraph to the license stating that converting a texture purchased in the Renderosity Market Place for use in SL is a violation of copyright and not permitted.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

Quote - Well if you read the DAZ threads on TC2 you'll find that apparently nobody believes that there are "CopyBots" that can capture any texture uploaded to the SL servers. Maybe someone needs to provide links to the proof that those bots exist.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Help:CopyBot

http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/11/16/copybot-action/

http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/11/14/use-of-copybot-and-similar-tools-a-tos-violation/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CopyBot

http://theory.isthereason.com/?p=1388

Quote - Maybe it would be a good idea to add a new paragraph to the license stating that converting a texture purchased in the Renderosity Market Place for use in SL is a violation of copyright and not permitted.

Not specific to Second Life or Renderosity - regardless of where you got it, regardless of where you want to transmit it, if you didn't make a texture or a model completely from scratch, then it's a violation of copyright.  There are very few people who can use that texture converter utility legitimately for Second Life (or any other game or whatever), and those people, well, they wouldn't need automation to do this would they?  they could just as well make their own texture and do a better job.

My Freebies

Does daz consider 3rd party textures of their mil figures to be derivatives?

Pretty obviously they don't and they never have...

My Freebies

Quote - Does daz consider 3rd party textures of their mil figures to be derivatives?

uh no.  textures are usually done using the daz supplied (or snowsultans) texture seam guides.

making a texture is not dirivitive.  converting a daz texture and sending anywhere would just be a straight violation.  a dirivitive would be adding tatoo's to a texture and saying that it was yours when the base is Daz, something completly different.

now that there is a tatoo plugin for texture converter I'm sure a lot of the tatoo flash sites are gunna start getting involved, there have already been a couple of figure textures with copyrighted tatoo's used and the products pulled cause of copyright.

gunna be fun watching this all unfold.

restocking the Pitchforks and Torches.... FRED! MORE POPCORN!.....I'll have the new batch of TeeShirts ready by 5....damnit.. we're out of dead horses and beer.......grabs phone

Quote - > **Quote - ON ITS FACE **this endorses and encourages violation of copyright.  "Your favorite Poser textures" are copyrighted material, and this kind of use is very plainly illegal.

any way you look at it its infringements galore. even if the person converting it for Second Life is not selling it and is only doing it for personal use, once it is in Second Life it is easily available to anyone that 'sees' your avatar ingame: there are copy bots widely available that harvest SL content.

this is against the Poser EULAs. i cant believe that
a) 3D Universe created this bullshit
b) Daz is actually selling it, knowing what will result (theyre not stupid)

They are probably betting that no one is using the CP textures to begin with.  However wouldn't people be using this to steal the new daz elite textures instead?  I'm surprised that the non-daz merchants who sell textures at daz are putting up with this. 

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

*uh no.  textures are usually done using the daz supplied (or snowsultans) texture seam guides.

making a texture is not dirivitive.  converting a daz texture and sending anywhere would just be a straight violation.  a dirivitive would be adding tatoo's to a texture and saying that it was yours when the base is Daz, something completly different.

now that there is a tatoo plugin for texture converter I'm sure a lot of the tatoo flash sites are gunna start getting involved, there have already been a couple of figure textures with copyrighted tatoo's used and the products pulled cause of copyright.

gunna be fun watching this all unfold.

Then I take it Textures are not derivitives,  good. 

See the reason I have asked that question is daz has never really given a black and white answer on their meaning of derivitive.

Well now, im glad that the folks here UTTERLY dissagree with this damned bull from DAZ.
It has p**sed me off. You know what reply i had from several people over there,  TOUGH, we brought the textures we can do what we like with them oh i dont sell here no more BTW, used too, sell else where now

This second life bullcr*p is just the start, actually IMVU is just as bad, using models/textures etc etc found my older stuff being SOLD there WITHOUT permission or even credit to me, i got no money from it

I will be from now on adding a clause to my readme's about NOT using texture's in Second Life/IMVU or any other chat/gaming program!

Man, this has seriulosly p**sed a lot of people off!

In the words of DarkStarRising:
"Sadness within sadness,
Darkness within darkness,
a shadow of a form lays upon the floor,
looking at herself
looking at her own shadows of loneliness"

This second life bullcrp is just the start,

You are absolutely right.  In 2009 daz is going to start pumping poser models into video games.  Think of it... all those gorgeuos mil figure derivitives ending up in video games.

BTW video games are a 9 billion dollar a year industry.

yup so, ive actually had one of my characters i specifically done textures used in a game, WITH MY PERMISSION! and i got paid for it. And im a hardcore gamer, i know all about the industry, luv, i beta and alpha test all the time for a LOT of games!

What you dont understand is that when people like BlackHearted or Rebelmommy have there characters used and stolen textures and sometimes morphs and used else where with out permission, those people who are doing it are breaking the law. IMVU does this all the freakin time, buying say 3Dreams hairs, converting them for the IMVU chat base and then reselling it... so really are you saying its OK for people to steal and do this?

In the words of DarkStarRising:
"Sadness within sadness,
Darkness within darkness,
a shadow of a form lays upon the floor,
looking at herself
looking at her own shadows of loneliness"

*so really are you saying its OK for people to steal and do this?

Choose your words carefully...No where did I say that.  I'm warning people here of what's coming.

Sorry im half a bloody asleep, not damned coffee in the house, i wanna eat someones ear off... yawns please excuse my abrubtness, thats me, say a small wee thing and i go king kong ooo er missus

I know whats coming, um its been coming for the past, its happened, just like P2P , its spreads like a virus, i may hate computers, and i may beta/alpha for certain games, but i really hate this technological era we are in give me a sword, chainmaile, and a war horse any day over this poop

.... i need coffee.... NURSE...

In the words of DarkStarRising:
"Sadness within sadness,
Darkness within darkness,
a shadow of a form lays upon the floor,
looking at herself
looking at her own shadows of loneliness"

Apology accepted.

Here's an excerpt from an e mail I sent to a friend a month ago.

[ Explanation] See,  when I posted WIP Jane a few people wanted a low poly version of her.  It got my curiosity up.  So I posted her over at cgsociety. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=43&t=540734&highlight=patorak
After the replies I got,  I realized why some people in poserdom want a 10k polycount figure.
They want it for video game developement.

I thought how can they get poser content in video games.  Then I saw the fbx plug-in for Daz Studio.  Fbx is autodesk's universal file format.  Anything in fbx can be ported between the high end apps.  The high end apps are needed for video game animation,  surfacing,  and rendering.

It dawned on me,  Daz is creating a pipeline to get poser content into video games.  My suspicions were confirmed when Mogware annouced it's partnership with Daz.  Here's the link.  http://www.mogware.com/

At first I thought this is great.  Then I thought about Daz's millenium figures EULA.  Specifically this in the EULA

*6. OTHER RESTRICTIONS. This Agreement is your proof of License to exercise the rights granted herein and must be retained by you. User shall not give, sell, rent, lease, sublicense, or otherwise transfer or dispose of the 3-D Model(s) on a temporary or permanent basis without the prior written consent of DAZ. DAZ'S 3-D Model(s) and/or contracts are non-transferable and shall only be used by the Licensed User. User may not reverse engineer, de-compile, disassemble, or create derivative works from the 3-D Model(s). These restrictions do not pertain to rendered images or pre-rendered animations.

Then I thought of this.  It's from the devkit

*NOTE:
As with all DAZ products, derivative works are allowed for the creation of complimentary add-on products, but not for the creation of competitive products that do not require the original work. In this case, the "V4 Dev Foundation.cr2" file cannot be used to create any product that competes with Victoria 4 herself, or any of the other stand-alone items DAZ produces. Likewise, any products derived from this file ("V4 Dev Foundation.cr2") cannot be further modified such that they compete with said DAZ items.

Daz considers add on products as special permission derivatives.  derivatives all the same though.

How does it benefit Daz to do this?  The video gaming industry is a 9 billion dollar a year industry.  It's also one of the industries that's doing very good in our depressed economy.  Currently an exclusive figure for video game developement sells for $3000 and up plus 1% to 5% royalties.  Imagine Daz taking all those derivatives of the millenium figures,  pennies on the dollar,  and placing them in video games.  All the while daz sitting fat and sassy enjoying their 1000% or more profit margin.
 

Well, i knew DAZ was a fat cat, but damn not this FAT! Eh well, just goes to show HOW outta the poser loop i am now a days its to clicky for me, and i just cant STAND it
there was already a poser game, um it was here, very nice too, a fighting game may of been two but there no longer sold, god damn it what was it called... Anyhoo, hubby laughed and said "Im not suprised one bit"...

Hot damn, ill be glad when i no longer do poser and do my REAL first love, clay work grins oh and fixing bikes! biker girls ROCK!

In the words of DarkStarRising:
"Sadness within sadness,
Darkness within darkness,
a shadow of a form lays upon the floor,
looking at herself
looking at her own shadows of loneliness"

Yep!  It's gonna get ugly.

Further on in the letter I suggest that one should create their own figure and fit all their products (clothes,  hair,  shoes,  morphs,  and textures) to it.  That way daz can't claim them as a derivitives.

Here's the link to a good figure creation video.  http://www.vuze.com/details/3P545OC2J2DPF53ZZ5W2N4FF6NRMS5F2.html?a=SWEEK&cat=l10&ch=X&cs=X&ct=SMOVIE&page=Scontent%2FBucketBrowse&pb=X&pg=1&pr=X&s=S&st=SAZHOT&t=X&vt=1

Or one adds to their read me a clause for video game usage and royalties there of.

Quote - Daz considers add on products as special permission derivatives.  derivatives all the same though.

DAZ can consider it the Queen of England but it still does not give them exclusive rights over third-party textures, which is what you seem to be getting at.  There's nearly a decade of precedent that is all a matter of public record where they've dealt with 3rd party textures as not being "derivative works".  I think it's pretty obvious that DAZ does not consider textures for their models to be in that category - this is how Renderosity makes its money after all - but even if they suddenly reversed themselves and declared all textures and shaders and whatnot to be derivative works, at most they could require the texture artists to cease and desist selling, they couldn't hijack the stuff and run off with it willy-nilly.

My Freebies

Quote - Well now, im glad that the folks here UTTERLY dissagree with this damned bull from DAZ.
It has p**sed me off. You know what reply i had from several people over there,  TOUGH, we brought the textures we can do what we like with them oh i dont sell here no more BTW, used too, sell else where now

This second life bullcr*p is just the start, actually IMVU is just as bad, using models/textures etc etc found my older stuff being SOLD there WITHOUT permission or even credit to me, i got no money from it

I will be from now on adding a clause to my readme's about NOT using texture's in Second Life/IMVU or any other chat/gaming program!

Man, this has seriulosly p**sed a lot of people off!

I am already adding second life TOS terms to my 2D work, no way am I allowing them to take bits piece, the whole works and using and selling them for any reason.

Daz has marbles in its head if they think they can get away with this one.

*but even if they suddenly reversed themselves and declared all textures and shaders and whatnot to be derivative works, at most they could require the texture artists to cease and desist selling, they couldn't hijack the stuff and run off with it willy-nilly.

*Hmmm...  Then why are they selling a program that allows mil figure textures to be converted to SL avatars?

*It dawned on me,  Daz is creating a pipeline to get poser content into video games.

*Here's another proof for that: The new textureconverter 2, released yesterday at DAZ has a second-life plug-in so can convert any  V4, V3,M3 etc. texture into a second-life texture.

best regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

Quote - *It dawned on me,  Daz is creating a pipeline to get poser content into video games.

*Here's another proof for that: The new textureconverter 2, released yesterday at DAZ has a second-life plug-in so can convert any  V4, V3,M3 etc. texture into a second-life texture.

best regards,

Bopper.

erm Bopper? read back a bit... your're a tad late... and behind on the coming shitstorm...

Quote - youve gotta be fucking kidding me.
its not bad enough that people are stealing it on their own, we have to make it even easier for them?

but its more money in daz's coffers so its all good, right?

Good you said it for me, even my husband who has nothing to do with the 3D or 2D world is livid.

Said how come daz gets to decide a texture from another merchants is their copyright and they can offer it up to SL for sale and distribution. I am saying it again Daz has rocks in their head if they think there will not be trouble over this. 

And as for SL, jesus those guys need a damn life, some of those characters and stuff created is below quality and looks like a person with no talent completely made them.

I have already removed one account from them due to my textures being sold from CP.
Fool thought I would let him get away with it.  By the way the company did nothing to help me, they are as dodge as a encyclopedia salesman over their.

Quote - Hmmm...  Then why are they selling a program that allows mil figure textures to be converted to SL avatars?

I didn't say they were smart, I said they're not entitled to exclusive rights to work for which they don't hold the copyright for.  Even if a case could be made that textures are derivative works - which again, I don't think they're trying to do - that doesn't mean they can grab any derivative works and sell them for their own profit.  While copyright law does protect the original copyright holder, it is not a blank check to do whatever you want in a case where there is an actual infringement.

I think this is just an example of DAZ not thinking things through - probably the best to expect is for them to put some disclaimer language on the sell page.  It's not as if there weren't other tools out there that do similar things, just this one practically screams "abuse me".

My Freebies

you guys are missing something:

“…you understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the service, you automatically grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant) to Linden Lab: (a) a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to (i) use, reproduce and distribute your Content within the Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service, and (ii) use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service;”*"

*the above basically means that basically the only legitimate use of the texture converter is a merchant converting their own textures for use in SL.
uploading an avatar skin to SL is basically giving Linden Labs a royalty free license to do whatever they like with that texture.
now guess what? when you buy a texture at renderosity, or daz, you do not have that right to give.

meaning that uploading your converted texture to SL is no different than uploading it to a warez site.*

the whole 'derivatives' issue is just another angle. that is debatable, this isnt. unless the merchant you purchased the texture from gave you permission to distribute it through second life, this is against the product EULA.

erm Bopper? read back a bit... your're a tad late... and behind on the coming shitstorm...

Duh, I realised that when I saw your post, I  think I had too little sleep last, trying to get the damn texture converter too work. Typical a DAZ release: it only worked correct after 2 updates, the first installation didn't work at all.
Didn't buy the second-life plug-in because I never had any interest in a  second life.

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

they cannot claim it as a derivative.

simple making a texture compatible with an existing character's UV template does not make that texture a derivative of the character.
nor does modeling clothing that fits a figure make it a derivative and the property of the figure creator. that entire line of reasoning is absurd. if that were the case, all daz products would be the property of Smith Micro right now.

aside from that, keep in mind that the reason Daz is in the position it is now is because of the add-on creators creating hundreds of thousands of add-on items and freebies for their products ever since Vicky 1. Vicky, Mike, etc would be absolutely nowhere if it was just Daz in-house supporting them for the last decade. so aside from the fact that it wouldnt fly in court for a heartbeat, if they started claiming all V4 clothing and textures were derivatives of Daz products they would alienate all add-on creators and theyd take a massive loss.

Has anyone started a thread about this at DAZ? because its something that should be brought up

*they cannot claim it as a derivative.

simple making a texture compatible with an existing character's UV template does not make that texture a derivative of the character.
nor does modeling clothing that fits a figure make it a derivative and the property of the figure creator. that entire line of reasoning is absurd. if that were the case, all daz products would be the property of Smith Micro right now.

aside from that, keep in mind that the reason Daz is in the position it is now is because of the add-on creators creating hundreds of thousands of add-on items and freebies for their products ever since Vicky 1. Vicky, Mike, etc would be absolutely nowhere if it was just Daz in-house supporting them for the last decade. so aside from the fact that it wouldnt fly in court for a heartbeat, if they started claiming all V4 clothing and textures were derivatives of Daz products they would alienate all add-on creators and theyd take a massive loss.

OK first of all I'm just trying to help people protect their work.  Vendor eulas need to be re written to include video game usage and royalties.

Second,  nothing is absurd when it comes to making a profit in business.  Daz could easily sink the poser market and enter the video game market.

Quote - OK first of all I'm just trying to help people protect their work.  Vendor eulas need to be re written to include video game usage and royalties.

They don't NEED to be re-written, because ignorance of copyright law is not a defense in the case of infringement - but it wouldn't hurt.

Information about copyright law in the US (which follows the Bern convention):

http://copyright.gov/

My Freebies

patorak - i understand youre trying to help, but try and understand that making statements such as 'daz can claim all V4 textures as derivatives' is incensing to all add-on creators.

and yes, im in total agreement with you about revising the EULAs to be even clearer to people in these new markets that Daz is plunging us into against our will.

either way the SL issue is pretty cut and dry. you are violating both the SL and Rosity EULA by submitting content to which you do not own the distribution rights to SL.
this is aside from the CopyBot issue.

and with regards to CopyBots: theyre not just a one-time thing. they will always be around, and soon there will be even more of them. any content uploaded to a medium like SL, much like the web, is extractable since it has to be uploaded to everyone you come into contact with. people in denial about copybots need to understand more about multiplayer game engines and how content such as copybots, wallhacks, etc work. by submitting custom content to a game, that content is potentially up for grabs to anyone in that game that comes into contact with your avatar (either via 3rd party utilities or just searching cached files). hiding your head in the sand and saying 'theres no such thing as copybots' or 'copybot users will be banned' doesnt change a thing.

its like someone taking your textures and putting them on a website, but then putting a no-right-click/save script up to 'protect' them, and then saying that they are not in an extractable medium. then when someone simply disables scripts, uses the firefox>page info workaround, or simply uses a browser that the script does not affect, they say 'well thats just a minority of people'.
if ONE person accesses that work you have distributed it in violation of the EULA.

I just got a response from DAZ support regarding this, and frankly I really hope it was a very junior member of their staff that wrote it, because it struck me as monumentally dumb.  Guilty parties shall remain nameless and regardless I'll pass along whatever further info they give me, maybe the person who initially responded hadn't had coffee yet.

My Freebies

*They don't NEED to be re-written, because ignorance of copyright law is not a defense in the case of infringement - but it wouldn't hurt.

Information about copyright law in the US (which follows the* Bern convention*):

http://copyright.gov/

I'm talking end user license agreements!  Tell me if someone buys your poser product and used it in a video game are you content that you sold it a $10.00 and the game made $250,000.  Wouldn't  you want a little more?

Now if you have a rolling EULA you could say,  price for video game usage $1000.00 plus 5% royalties.  Tell me what would be so wrong with vendors re writing their EULA's to include video game usage and royalties?

Pat I have no idea what you are on about - to all appearances, including the couple of email responses DAZ support has sent me so far, this is really just a case of DAZ staff not understanding how games work, which I'm trying to remedy (although I might need a bigger hammer to get it through).  I don't see anything to indicate DAZ is trying to grab rights to anybody else's texture content and start playing around with video game royalties.  Do you have some information that I do not?

The end user licenses are fairly plain in their wording, and DAZ's own guidelines make clear that this is not something they really should be doing:

DAZ FAQ "Can I use DAZ 3D's products in a video game that I am producing?"

 

Quote - The EULA forbids you from redistributing the geometry and the textures. You are not permitted to give a copy of the model (geometry) to another party. You are not permitted to distribute a model you derive from the geometry. You are not permitted to distribute a texture you derive from a texture you've purchased from DAZ 3D, except for products specifically designated as texture resources. You could use Victoria 4.1 and even create your own morphs or variations of the geometry, but you may not redistribute the geometry, both original or derivative, to another party.

 Consequently, this EULA essentially forbids using DAZ 3D geometry and textures in a real-time 3D game for all practical purposes.

My Freebies

I just got a response from DAZ copyright staff and they see the legal problem being discussed.  I think this was a genuine oversight on their part, they tell me they're going to discuss this with their higher-ups and decide what to do.  It being the weekend, I guess this will have to wait until Monday or later.

My Freebies

*I just got a response from DAZ copyright staff and they see the legal problem being discussed.  I think this was a genuine oversight on their part, they tell me they're going to discuss this with their higher-ups and decide what to do.  It being the weekend, I guess this will have to wait until Monday or later.

That is good news.  I'd suggest though if you are going to make a living freelancing in the 3d world that you retain both a lawyer and an accountant.

Well I brought up the SL Copyright issue in this thread over in the DAZ Commons, only to be told it wasn't an issue at all because nobody could copy the textures. Apparently nobody there believes in CopyBots.

Well I brought up the SL Copyright issue in this thread *over in the DAZ Commons, only to be told it wasn't an issue at all because nobody could copy the textures. Apparently nobody there believes in CopyBots.

Just read it... Anybody want to take bets on the number of mil figure textures that are going to flood SL? 

I'm sorry Blackhearted I've hijacked your thread.  Take care everyone and I'll talk with you all later.

prediction as to what happens with this.  the SL TC2 plugin isn't gunna make a lot of money and 3d universe just pulls it themselves.  Daz tells 3d universe it's to 'contriversal'  and has it pulled.  Daz has 'investigated' and because daz is about 'growing the community' they have it pulled.

this isn't a Daz3D product, this is a 3D Universe brokered PA product.

I don't think this plugin has a life.  There are so many plugins in the works for TC2 that the SL one is just a can of worms, give money back, gift certificate etc and they will just move on and have the SL TC2 plugin killed.

That's my guess.  Sure brought the ongoing issue of SL up front and in your face though.

This part was explained to me some time ago by an attorney. Sort of paraphrasing here....

Apparently this is a common clause which allows SL to distribute the images generated within Second Life. If they were not allowed, only you would see any of your creations, everyone else would see you as a default figure. That is why it says... *your Content within the Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service,

the within the Service is the key.... If you look at your ISP, many Web Sites, etc... that allow upload of images, you will see this type of language. It is what allows them to display what is uploaded. I recall many of the Galleries going through changes in their TOS and this type of language needing to be clarified.

The question here is if the person using any Derivative, even for personal use within SL, has the right to display or redistribute any such content in accordance to this agreement.

Quote - you guys are missing something:

“…you understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the service, you automatically grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant) to Linden Lab: (a) a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to (i) use, reproduce and distribute your Content within the Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service, and (ii) use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service;”*"

ratscloset
aka John

i just read of a case of someone's avatar being used for SL marketing purposes without their approval. i cant find the article, but the guy wasnt upset - flattered actually - just noted that he wasnt asked to sign a release.

Gabe I tried to report it here too>>>>

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3299674&ebot_calc_page#message_3299674

 

Cause I thought it seemed strange all the loose talk of converting textures to make SL characters and I swear one post in there did say to SELL! But now I can't find it. But you know if one says it, it is probably a definite thought to many!

Hugs

Ariana

Is there water in your future or is it being shipped away to be resold to you?
Water, the ultimate weapon...
www.futurefantasydesign.com

What is a "copybot" ?

. 

A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote - What is a "copybot" ?

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Help:CopyBot

http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/11/16/copybot-action/

http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/11/14/use-of-copybot-and-similar-tools-a-tos-violation/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CopyBot

http://theory.isthereason.com/?p=1388

Quote - > Quote - Although textures could be stolen, it would take a fair amount of work to do it because mapping is different.

Well that just changed -> TC2 - Second Life Avatar

It was never very hard before that either.. 3 yrs ago .. i took a look because someone I knew was approached and asked if they could convert her character textures to use in SL and sell.. well hahaha keyword so they could sell.. I don't think so..

The basic template for the SL avatar isn't that far off from say V3 .. was pretty easy for me to reconstruct a V3 texture onto an SL template of their Avatars.

And Gabe is right.. there are more creepy people there then um.. normal people I think.

DarkePhazeGraphiX that was me .. :)

Quote - *It dawned on me,  Daz is creating a pipeline to get poser content into video games.

*Here's another proof for that: The new textureconverter 2, released yesterday at DAZ has a second-life plug-in so can convert any  V4, V3,M3 etc. texture into a second-life texture.

best regards,

Bopper.

WE ARE ALL GONNA GET SCREWED ..doesn't matter that is plainly in red wordings says can not convert textures of another person and sell anywhere.. people from SL do not care and are gonna do it anyways. Hell pretty soon all 3D stores will have a SL section or something.

;)

Yep it is sounding more and more like SL has no scruples or ethics. I have spoken to people who alluded to how easy it is to make SL content from poser content.  So apparently SL is a real draw for pirates and others. I have never seen anything but bad pixelated junk from there.

 

I remember once I belonged to an msn group that created pics from pixels (*little colored squares) UGH! I stayed a week and left fast... such a pain to make anything of consequence!

I'll stick with poser!

 

Hugs

ariana

Is there water in your future or is it being shipped away to be resold to you?
Water, the ultimate weapon...
www.futurefantasydesign.com

Oh they have no scruples alright and don't even care what they take from others stores to sell, they just repackage it away they go, no talent no brains and mega thieves

There I said it and they can scream all they like.

Brava! You know when i asked "over there" about why there was a SL plugin, I was basically told it was ok, cause it is only to make a personal avatar... No one asked if that base texture was really protected from being "Borrowed" and reworked. From what it is beginning to look like, you can take almost any SL and re-work it.

 

Ugh... bad stuff!

 

Hugs

Ariana

Is there water in your future or is it being shipped away to be resold to you?
Water, the ultimate weapon...
www.futurefantasydesign.com

Thats BS is daz thinks those thieves at SL will abide by that only make avatar nonsence

Stupid place with stupid people that really need a life.  There said that too, creepy idiots.

:P

 

 

LOL!

 

Me

Is there water in your future or is it being shipped away to be resold to you?
Water, the ultimate weapon...
www.futurefantasydesign.com

A bit strong I know but sometimes you just have to say it lol.

Quote - maybe I miss spoke  - sorry.

apparently with Daz Studio you can export bvh file for use in Second Life and Hexagon 2.5 has the SL primitives.

That's not an exclusive Daz Studio problem. SL can import any BVH file.  The primatives are a special kind of TGA file. There is no way you could ever export any usefull model from Poser/DS into SL using this method.

Linden Labs are very lax about copyright infringement, and they have always been that way. It's the number one complaint from SL community and it comes up over and over on their forums. It's an unfortunate fact of life that a few 100 users, out of millions, can cause so much grief. Pretty much the same that I have heard of Poser users who post copyright material on Taiwan or Russian website.

The TC2 converter will probably dissapear when Daz gets enough heat put on them. But don't expect to get any response from LL. They are quite happy to sit back and turn a blind eye as long as they are making money.

Just a thought on quality. Even with the TC2 program I don't think the textures simply converted from Poser could be as good as the ones made by the top designers in SL because of the way the lighting is handled.  The limited lighting in SL means that the best textures have a lot of shading 'baked' in. A flatter texture designed for Poser to do the lighting will look kinda flat. I have tried making textures for both and found that creating a texture that looks reasonable in Poser is far easier than creating one that looks good in SL. (I use the term 'good' very loosly here given my limited PS skills). 

All DAZ is going to do is bury their collective heads in the Utah sands while they collect their 50% of sales for the plugin.  As far as they're concerned, they're no responsible.  One, it's a PA product and two, they put a clause in their readme sating it was a no-no. 

*I just got a response from DAZ copyright staff and they see the legal problem being discussed.  I think this was a genuine oversight on their part, they tell me they're going to discuss this with their higher-ups and decide what to do.  It being the weekend, I guess this will have to wait until Monday or later.

Hey Pjz99

Any word from the "higher ups" ?

They haven't emailed me anything, and I'm in a pretty awkward position to bug them about it, as I'm waiting to have my electrical power and internet connection restored after Hurricane Ike.  I encourage other people to drive this issue with DAZ, as I think it's a very serious legal exposure for them and will enable extensive copyright infringement against basically all the popular Poser texture artists.  DAZ has not even put a word of warning language on the sell page by now, which I find terribly disappointing.

Blackhearted/Rio, Sarsa, Rebelmommy, Liquid Rust, Rhiannon, Jepe, and anybody else I am too dumb to name here - you people really ought to be complaining to DAZ's legal department right now.

My Freebies

I have seen designs ( don't know if copied or converted, legally or otherwise) from Poser artists,  appearing in Second Life.

As long as some other people do not respect the IP of creators, piracy will continue in the real and  virtual worlds.  It is SO difficult to enforce, it borders on the maddening.  

There is definitely something wrong with the fundamental premise underlying the economic behaviour between creator-seller and buyer-user counterparties.  Creator expects buyer to feel satisfied that buyer has paid for lelal right to use.  But in fact, buyer has the additional temptation of illegally selling onwards, or of sharing illegally in a private buying club.  And thereafter come the leaks - some buyers/users offer the item for free, as a bait or otherwise, perhaps for malicious purposes - spreading botnets and malware via illicit downloads.

Maddening, as I said.

Eternal Hobbyist

 

*They haven't emailed me anything, and I'm in a pretty awkward position to bug them about it, as I'm waiting to have my electrical power and internet connection restored after Hurricane Ike.  I encourage other people to drive this issue with DAZ, as I think it's a very serious legal exposure for them and will enable extensive copyright infringement against basically all the popular Poser texture artists.  DAZ has not even put a word of warning language on the sell page by now, which I find terribly disappointing.

Blackhearted/Rio, Sarsa, Rebelmommy, Liquid Rust, Rhiannon, Jepe, and anybody else I am too dumb to name here - you people really ought to be complaining to DAZ's legal department right now.

I'm sorry to hear about your predicament.  Is there any thing I can do to help?

There is a lot of wisdom in your statement.  As the wall between poser and the rest of the 3d world crumbles I hope vendors realize they are no longer just supplying the poser market.

*As long as some other people do not respect the IP of creators, piracy will continue in the real and  virtual worlds.  It is SO difficult to enforce, it borders on the maddening.  

We can catch them through vigilance.  Enforcement should be the lawyers job and damages awarded based on one's EULA.

Quote - > Quote - Unless you are the original copyright owner of the textures you converted - Second Life textures may only be used on your own personal avatar and may not be transfered, shared or sold in the Second Life online world.

from the Rosity EULA:

Quote - The Buyer may not redistribute this archive file, in whole or in part. The Buyer may not store it any place on a network or on the Internet where it may be referenced by a third party. Buyer acquires the copyright to any derivative works created using this work, provided none of the original materials can be extracted from the derivative work by any means.
If Artist can show that any of the original material can be extracted from Buyer's derivative work,
Artist can demand both the original and derivative work, and all copies thereof be deleted.

by converting it to a Second Life avatar skin, you are violating the EULA in several ways:

1. you are essentially 'distributing' the texture to anyone that sees your avatar
2. it is extractable through copy bots that run rampant in SL (and always will)
3. by uploading your avatar skin you are actually granting Linden Labs a royalty free license to use and distribute that content - even to third parties. you do not have the right to grant this.

Quote - Recently, the topic of intellectual property rights and virtual worlds has taken center stage. On Monday, Linden Labs reported that Second Life had been invaded by a “copybot”, a nefarious program capable of duplicating resident’s creative content. Because the Second Life economy is propped on the sale of user-generated content, the copybot was essentially stealing people’s intellectual (or virtual) property. In the copy-bot’s wake, Second Life residents were finally challenged with the predicament — Is the content that we create in a virtual world our own? Or does it belong to the owner of that world?

In Second Life, residents create unique clothing, buildings, hairstyles and artwork, etc., to sell for virtual dollars that can be exchanged for real money. As a result, virtual intellectual property is tied to a real-world dollar amount. Yet, Linden Lab’s terms of service agreement has the following to offer:

“…you understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the service, you automatically grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant) to Linden Lab: (a) a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to (i) use, reproduce and distribute your Content within the Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service, and (ii) use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service;”

It is both interesting and sad at the same time. I'm majoring in Film and Digital Media and one of the concepts that was addressed in the curriculum was the "loop hole" factor regarding digital or "new"  media. The medium is still new in the world when compared to cinema, books or other means of distribution. Therefore, laws governing this medium are few and far between. Most existing copyright laws are older than the medium itself. The sad thing is people know this and take advantage of it big time. Best cases that illustrated this loophole were the Napster case of the 1990s and the 2008 Writer's Strike. The problem is nobody can clarify what or who the legal jurisdiction of the internet really is. 

Hmm, interesting thread ... but don't lose your health over it.

As an engineer doing many patentable things ... I don't bother since I'm small and don't have a million$ legal fund.  Quoting copyright laws means nothing if you are not willing to HIRE a lawyer in the country where the OFFENDER lives.  Plus even then, cases where small companies go into debt & struggle for years to sue over patent infringement usually end with the same story: The offender just moves across town and starts up again with a new name; hello square one.

DAZ will view this the same way as the credit-card companies handle fraud ... we lose $X per quarter; spending 10 times X to save X doesn't make sense. 

Any of these people who give your work away or sell it, if you spend huge emotional effort to stop them ... they will be doing it again tomorrow as someone else with a new name.  So be diliggent, plug up the holes you can but don't take it personally or let your health suffer.

ok..this is so childish an issue. I do create in SL, and no I dont use anything from Poser to do it!!! So, grow up and dont post, or grow up and challenge those in SL to outdo your work.
Also, the alternative, join SL, create your own works and tell them to kiss creative genuis;)

Oh and one other thought...their are creepy people all over the world, in your neighborhoods...at the schools, in law inforcement..sooooo..define creepy, odd, strange, weird, and by what standards do we use to call them this?

Quote - > Quote - *It dawned on me,  Daz is creating a pipeline to get poser content into video games.

*Here's another proof for that: The new textureconverter 2, released yesterday at DAZ has a second-life plug-in so can convert any  V4, V3,M3 etc. texture into a second-life texture.

best regards,

Bopper.

WE ARE ALL GONNA GET SCREWED ..doesn't matter that is plainly in red wordings says can not convert textures of another person and sell anywhere.. people from SL do not care and are gonna do it anyways. Hell pretty soon all 3D stores will have a SL section or something.

and so in stating that...it seems Daz and Poser are responsible for makingv it easier for peopel to abuse the rules?

As justa artist on the sidelines and not even a creator of models and textures or anything like that my opinion after reading all this as one option since it's all overwhelming/ time consumming/non-profitable and unethical as to the problems at hand would be for creators to beat the copycats at their own game and instead Join SL/IMMU besides Poser community too.
Therefore each would have the jump on any copycat in that each creator would be marketing their OWN products in both versions to sell...making more money themself plus detouring anyone from marketing what is already posted by said creators.
I see it like this...If this has all been going on so long and the Top Stores..DAZ/SL/IMMU haven't stepped up to the plate and protected their selling patrons already in these areas from the getgo it's bound to go on eons more before any and everything is addressed with ironclad laws all around (which is also almost non-existant as long as people are involved making money for whatever reasons) to help the Actual creators in the here and now.  It's all about greed for the most part...always has been and always will be due to a poor immoral world we live in.
Interesting topic.

Quote - As justa artist on the sidelines and not even a creator of models and textures or anything like that my opinion after reading all this as one option since it's all overwhelming/ time consumming/non-profitable and unethical as to the problems at hand would be for creators to beat the copycats at their own game and instead Join SL/IMMU besides Poser community too.
Therefore each would have the jump on any copycat in that each creator would be marketing their OWN products in both versions to sell...making more money themself plus detouring anyone from marketing what is already posted by said creators.
I see it like this...If this has all been going on so long and the Top Stores..DAZ/SL/IMMU haven't stepped up to the plate and protected their selling patrons already in these areas from the getgo it's bound to go on eons more before any and everything is addressed with ironclad laws all around (which is also almost non-existant as long as people are involved making money for whatever reasons) to help the Actual creators in the here and now.  It's all about greed for the most part...always has been and always will be due to a poor immoral world we live in.
Interesting topic.

touche'...and i agree...wonderfully put...

Yep. This seems like the RIAA/MPAA situation. You can sue, spend time tracking down pirates etc., but the cow is out of the barn and shows no sign of being coralled anytime soon. I don't know if embracing the new market will be profitable for everyone but the alternative doesn't sound promising. For those who don't want to do it themselves, perhaps they could partner with someone to do authorized 2nd Life versions of their content. Again, no guarantees of significant profit but as it stands, you got nada plus ulcers besides.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I love the work here and would also have loved to use the textures personally in Second Life, Yeah, I'm one of the sad sikkos without a life that you have spent the last few pages abusing!
Actually, I am one of a group of fundraisers, for Cancer charities, toys for kids (the most recent), Lukemia, you name it, the group has raised thousands of real life dollars, in SL, to aid the charities.

Now, I understand that you are protecting your creations, but, just maybe, there are others like me, non artists who were just overwhelmed at the beauty created here, who did not realise (but do now that they have read the copyrights) that the items given away for free on here could not actually be used anywhere.

I take great exception to your generalisation of SL users, we are NOT all thieves, perverts and brainless fools. Perhaps as has been mentioned, instead of just bashing users as useless morons, someone could try making some good textures, prims and poses for use in SL. There IS money being spent in there, and not all of it is on sex and perversions, believe it or not!

Actually, it's been pointed out time and time again that there's nothing wrong with the average SL user.  It's the extremes that were poked fun at, and the theives that were angered at. 

Listen, every file acquired from this site comes with a readme file.  In all reality, the items here, and elsewhere in the 3D world, have specific uses and for specific programs.  You need to read those.  Just because it's available as a freebie does NOT mean you are allowed to redistribute it.  You do not gain copyright by downloading OR purchasing it.  If the readme does not specificially note SL use (and, face it, few do), it is up to YOU, the one wanting to use it in SL, to contact the creator.  You don't just get to use it at your leisure just because it's on your hard drive.  If readme's became full of "you can't's", they'd be about as long as the warning labels on hair dryers...and, when was the last time you used yours in the shower?

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - Actually, it's been pointed out time and time again that there's nothing wrong with the average SL user.  It's the extremes that were poked fun at, and the theives that were angered at.  

If readme's became full of "you can't's", they'd be about as long as the warning labels on hair dryers...and, when was the last time you used yours in the shower?

Erm, reading through the forum posts, the insults are mainly generalised, not just aimed at extremes.
I do understand anyone being angry at thieves, your work is your own property and income too.
I now understand the usages of items bought from here, though as a newbie non artist it took some understanding. Maybe it would make the readme's long and boring, but not everyone knows about copyrights and permissions, they actually do think that any image given or purchased online is free for use anywhere. I know ignorance should not be an excuse, but sometimes, it just is!  I have not uploaded anything to sl without permission, I didn't purchase anything yet and and will not, but still would like someone, somewhere to design a few good textures for use in SL, for purchase of course!

(and no, I don't use my hairdryer in the shower, I'm sure there were once instructions telling me not to unless I wanted curly hair - I was very tempted............)

katierich: I would very much like to get started In SL as a vendor. I do not make textures as of yet but will be doing so soon. I make 3D models and rig them. Any advise help you could offer to get started would be appreciated.

Personally I don't see any difference between the 3D Poser world or the 3D SL world they both have their "Theives" and they both have their decent people. Don't be offended by the finger pointing crowd rendo welcomes There are still plenty of people involved with Poser and D/S who don't put entire sections of the 3D world into the "theif catagory because of the actions of a few.

Cheers,

Mike.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Phantom3D:   Mike, Hi! how refreshing to finally find someone who doesn't think we are all braindead perverts!  I would be delighted to introduce you to the wonders of SL sales. Maybe not via this forum though!

As I previously stated, I am no artist or designer, so I have no idea what it is that you do, (whats rigging?) I'm actually an internet marketer, but I do know my way around SL,  as a resident of 2 years. Probably best to do this via email? contact me on info(at)katie-rich.com if I can be of any help at all.

Thanks katierich, I will certainly be in contact. I don't know much about SL except they use very low poly models with high rez textures, many of my models are probably too high poly for SL but I have a few low poly ones and would find the change of scenery refreshing.

. 

A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Maybe you can also help me understand what 'poser' and 'poly' actually are too :-) Yes the textures are high rez, did you ever make an account and look at what is in SL? That could be the place to start. Let me know if you do, and I will meet you inworld and show you around what sells.

Anyone else considering breaking into the SL market can contact me at arielyn211@aol.com  My husband and I are successful SL business owners with a lot of expertise there, and I would welcome the opportunity to introduce anyone to the nuances and subtleties of the game.  There's money to be made there folks.  If you question this, check out SLEX and look for 3D content.  I am also looking for someone willing to sell me tree textures (trees on alpha) that I can use on our creations in SL.  No, the textures wouldn't be distributed as textures, but rather they would be applied to a "prim" (building block) that would appear in-world as an actual tree. 

SL gets a bad rap due to the pervs, cynics and general naysayers, not to mention the drama-thirsty media.  I met my hubby there, and together we have built a business that is truly profitable.  I think a few of you here (man, some of you are TALENTED!) could generate a nice income there.

I would just say ignore them trollers or cyber bullys are best ignored it really does ruffle thier feathers if they do not get any feed back from you.

Im not sure what took place even from reading the transcript, but if someone is being rude and ignorant try reporting them first if that does not work just ignore them they will get tired of you and move on to bother somneone else.

And I really do not think Blackhearted would act that way, Just does not seem like he would do something like that, Blackheated as far as I have seen here has acted as a responsible well upstanding person and wondeful artist, I think someone is impersonating him for sure and that they should be prosecuted for it under the full extent of the law.

Best thing to do is report it to the police and try to trap the guy so they can trace his ip address.

Hey now....

I am a Second Life user.  I'm not morally unconscious.  Just because you don't understand Second Life or don't enjoy playing Second Life is no reason to look down your noses at those who do. 

I don't steal content.  I'm here to learn, not steal.  Most players want creative content and are willing to pay for it.   I'm a heavy Second Life end-user and I don't know anyone who rips textures without regard to TOS.  In Second Life, legitimate creators either purchase textures or make their own.

As for models, we are pretty limited by what we can do.  So what makes a Second Life avatar stand out are the skins that lay over the shape (body).  Great skins that don't cost a fortune are limited.  And trying to find a skin for a shape that is not ordinary is nearly impossible.  So that is why I am here.  To learn how to make a skin for my plus size avatar in Second Life.  I'm very surprised that no one has bothered making a decent skin for plus size AVs, let alone clothing.

So rather than speculate what Second Lifers are up to just ask one.  I'm sure they are not as evil as you assume.

Cyber Betty
AKA Lillianna Nikolaidis (Second Life)

BTW: This is my Plus Size Avatar with her crappy clothes and skin.  See why I need to learn?

:D  Betty

katierich, phantom3d, Arielyn and Cyber Betty, you are all welcome to pop over to my treehouse and have a virual coffee and compare notes. Betty i am learning to make clothes without ripping off any Rendo stuff....and wings/jewellery and stuff as i get time, so if u want to see if we can get your avvie snazzed up let me know. Drop me an Im here or inworld as Boofy Halfpint.

For anyone else who thinks we are all depraved, i dare you to come in world and get past the sex shops, idiots and loons (that also exist here in the galleries by the way) and let us show u how your lovely clothes can move and dance for real, how your model can be your avatar that can walk talk or fire real gout of flame instead of a 2d image one because that is what interests me in SL...and being able to (feel like i can) dance to jaz/rock and roll music which is something I cannot do in RL due to multiple disabilites. if that is weird or depraved then SO WHAT! live with it.

Yayyy!! Good on ya Boofy, I will call over for a virtual coffee. Happy to assist Betty too!

A just my 2 sen here Id love to skinn and model for 2nd life but dont know how it works . I know how to skin and model rather well tho lol  just dont know  to much about 2nd to get started

========================================================
Typing Advisory :
Read at your own risk! May cause
dizziness, naseua,drooling, and temporary blindness.
Surgeon General recommends running the txt through a spell checker.

thanks katierich, come and join us Bobbie25, IM one of us here or in SL, we will look after u...smile. I do wish to say that my comments tho are not to disparich the original thread's intent of uncovering theft and copyright breeches. I am totally against any theft of anyones work and look out for it as i go around. Calling us all names is like other apps calling Rendo's all pin up girl fantasisers.

JenX, on a more practical note...as there seems to be a few Rendo people interested in SL, If anyone wants to check out the nicer parts of SL eg: jazz dancing, nice clothes etc or want to find tutorials/other info feel free to pass on my SL avvies' name of Boofy Halfpint for them to contact me if that doesnt break any rules,  if i dont know the answer i will try to find someone who does. If there are a few i can set up a group for them to be refered to so that people can at least ask questions there if u like,  As for Lindens listening about copyright dont hold your collective breaths...sigh.

Never thought to say, my SL username is Katie Usher, I too am happy to show anyone how things work in SL. Most of the designers I know are willing to assist anyone new and there are multiple  pieces of information to read and learn about the movement of clothes and how to make skin. Don't be shy to contact, we need you!

Hi Boofy,

I've been checking out the SL world for awhile. Right now I'm working on a full body scanner and learning about that, I dont  know if it would be usefull in SL. Perhaps using the scanner in real time for creating body movements  and BVH files could be usefull.

I spent a number of hours in SL and never ran into any offensive people.

Hi katierich, :)

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

cool stuff guys/gals looking forward to catching up and pooling our knowlege.Blackhearted, machineclaw and the others, feel free to join us if you like, then if you still think SL is a bad place then so be it. 

Blackhearted, i hope hearing a few sane, normal voices of SL has at least given u some relief that not everyone there is a cheat. I formally invite you to a dance at my friends jazz club if you are ever in world to take some of the bitter taste out of your mouth, no strings attached.

Hi Phatom!

How's you? That could be very useful for animations. Another item we need more of.

katierich:  i'm doing ok, my mother passed on last month :( she was 92, so I've been melancholy, dragging my feet around for the last month, but it's time to pull myself up and get moving again.

Ya, with this scanner I can turn out BVH files of complex body movements, I just have to figure out how to translate to Poser (SL) rigging, shouldn't be too hard.

. 

A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

ohh sorry to hear bout your mother Phantom, would love to see what you can do with the scanner

My condolences Phantom, I know how difficult it is to just carry on. The age isn't the issue, it's your mum!

Come back inworld and set up a few textures, I have room at my club for a vendor or two yet.  And, to anyone else here who would like to explore SL, your always welcome at Club Vida :)