Seems like a lot of things that I see in the marketplace are so blah.
I'm a high end product fan, and I don't as much of it as I'm used to, let's say six months ago? Maybe it's just me.

Anyone else under this impression, or am I havig a burnout?

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Its not only you!

And its not just this marketplace only, seems like most of the interesting models resides in the frestuff  (of various sites) these days.

The modeller is at his/hers craetive peak when struggling to become a well known vendor, upon success they often seem to become mainstream.

Maybe that is not true, but I dont go to the marketplace that often anymore.
I have money but theres seldom something that I want to buy there.

Regards / Jonny

My take on the marketplace:

V4 V4 Female
Oddtexture V4 V4
V4 V4 V4
V4 V4 something
V4 A4 V4
ship V4 V4
....

Of course, I'm being a bit facetious.  But they are always pimping to the male libido and the most recent incarnation pandering therein.  There are only so many (of thousands and thousands) of skimpy fantasy warrior outfits for Victoria or Aiko that one can stand.  The market here has become myopic.  I tend to buy only Dinoraul's exceptional prehistoric beasties of late. :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

I don't even mind the V4 stuff, as long as it's well done.
Seems like the marketplace is going the way of 3D commune in the product quality.... even when it comes to the top vendors.   :

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I got the free V4 when it was released, installed had a play, uninstalled & filed away for the day I can be bothered with it. None of the V4 stuff available interests me before that point.

If there was a way to filter out all the V4 oriented stuff that would be a good thing.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Quote - I got the free V4 when it was released, installed had a play, uninstalled & filed away for the day I can be bothered with it. None of the V4 stuff available interests me before that point.

If there was a way to filter out all the V4 oriented stuff that would be a good thing.

Ditto here. I made one render with her I think.

My Freebies

10*'s harder to make stuff for poser then any other app.

Seriously the hardest app ever buy far.

 

I'm trying to make a stupid dress, pannies for V4. easy in C4D but to get it to work in Poser.
super conforming cloths,morphs err.

 

Poser has the best looking stuff at the best price.

compared to others.

http://www.turbosquid.com/

 

Can find 3D art that = artist here but can not find better 3D artist that are here.

V4, no other mesh = her.

Would be nice if we had some robots,machines,city in ruins to = her.

 

Problem is Poser work space is so small won't hold a house much less a city.

it's good for V4 pin ups and that's about it.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Connie it's not  just you I see it too but just held my tongue. What I see appears to be copy cat products the same style outfits, same poses, same props but by different people but the same theme over and over. There is so much redundancy and very little diversification don't creators check out the marketplaces before they create? Why would one want to release something similar that has been released 1000 times already it's like beating a dead horse. It's like folks are just throwing things into the marketplace with no heart and no care for quality.

If one needs ideas on what to create maybe they need to check out the wishing well forum there are masses there screaming out ideas and wants that seem to be ignored. If creators want sales to grow some of them are going to have get more imaginative not copy the same old same old or carpet bomb the marketplace with a million and a half texture sets for the same products.

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I see it too. I think a few factors might account for it-- a few top vendors relocating their stores to DAZ; the closing of PoserPros store; Renderosity actively recruiting new, not necessarily experienced vendors...

And then, of course, there is the economy. If disposable income is tight, many merchants rather than risking a new direction, might fall back on ideas/styles that have sold for them in the past. Personally, I don't subscribe to that theory, when my money's tight, I'm more likely to part with it to gain something new, rather than clones of what I already have.

Quote - What I see appears to be copy cat products the same style outfits, same poses, same props but by different people but the same theme over and over.

I agree. It's even sadder, when the merchant is copy-catting their own products over and over again. How many mid-length in the face bob style hairs does one need?

kalonart.com

Part of it is you, because your perception of what is great has very likely changed as you have become more experienced at modeling and rigging Poser content, and you know what to look for now.  Many things I bought years ago and thought were the most amazing items in the world, I look at them now and I realize how I would have done them differently myself, or in some cases, never would have done at all!

My Freebies

Well good to know I'm not alone, been seeing some products that I wouldn't download free, much less buy. There are still plenty of items that can be done that are more unusual, the stuff I've bought lately would not work in a playboy type mag. I too will keep my wallet in my pocket until I see more quality instead of quantity. And I agree about the hair.

And the other two things that gets me, if I was going into battle I sure wouldn't want to have a thong that barely covers me, (and it's not the string part I'm talking about, it's the front), and I wouldn't be wearing an outfit that has zippers across the nipples, looks pretty uncomfortable. Just learning to model and working on some things that I think I would wear in combat, that look good but also realistic. Some of the stuff lately I can't see the model even being able to sit down, much less fight.

Ditto -  There used to be a time when I never let a coupon slip by - but now, there is just nothing worth having, it all looks the same as has been done over the years for V2/V3 - now just rehashed for V4.  With a little work you can make past items fit V4, so really no need to buy! I am more in the market for props such as plants, buildings and everyday type items.  Even with plants it appears people that make them re-do over & over ie. palm trees, daisys, lilies. grass etc etc.  Out of the millions of plants - originality please!!!!

IMO vendors should research what is already available at the various stores & if it's already available please do move on & create something new.

I think it´s the market place. It´s overloaded with low quality products. In this huge amount of low quality stuff it´s difficult to find the few high end products, I get tired after looking through 5 pages full of not so good products, the images start to blur and I have to stop...
Some products are so bad I wouldn´t give them away as a freebie.
I know that it takes a huge amount of time to create new products. I´m working on a new skin texture for V4 for months, but I´m still not satisfied with it.
I could go the easy way and just take a merchant resource kit paste a tattoo on it and sell it as my new creation. Some people would probably buy it. But that´s why the quality of products gets lower and lower.
I´m a great fan of realistic looking skin textures but there are only a few merchants that offer them. Most merchants don´t care about shader nodes.
A lot of clothing items and textures would look a lot better and more realistic with just a moment spent in the material room. There are a lot of tutorials for poser how to use the material room and a lot of tutorials how to create shaders for other 3d programs. They won´t tell you what to do in poser, but they will give you ideas how to recreate these materials in poser.
And it´s not only renderosity. It´s DAZ too, especially after closing down PoserPros a lot of not so good stuff found it´s way into their market place.
pjz99 I agree with you, that the perception of what is great changes over the time, but this has not only to do with us getting more experienced it also has to do with new software and computers being developed. A few years ago we thought Posette was the greatest figure around, then came Vicky and so on.
But we are now talking about products being developed today with all possibilities we have now and the quality still drops.

Quote - My take on the marketplace:

V4 V4 Female
Oddtexture V4 V4
V4 V4 V4
V4 V4 something
V4 A4 V4
ship V4 V4
....

Of course, I'm being a bit facetious.  But they are always pimping to the male libido and the most recent incarnation pandering therein.  There are only so many (of thousands and thousands) of skimpy fantasy warrior outfits for Victoria or Aiko that one can stand.  The market here has become myopic.  I tend to buy only Dinoraul's exceptional prehistoric beasties of late. :)

I refer to V4A4 as Kudzu these days.

I go for ApolloMaximus items, Adh3d for sure.
Why, because there are so few tochoose from.
Also Alex does a very good job IMHO.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Quote - Seems like the marketplace is going the way of 3D commune in the product quality.... even when it comes to the top vendors.

I don't know that there's an issue with quality, as such... but I agree, lately I don't see much new stuff that's sparklingly original or which exudes must-have-ness. My recent purchases have tended to be scenes, props and utilities rather than character sets, hair and clothes.

Maybe the impending release of M4 will produce a flood of good things...

---

Windows 10 x64 Pro - Intel Xeon E5450 @ 3.00GHz (x2)

PoserPro 11 - Units: Metres

Adobe CC 2017

I guess all one has to do is follow the paper trail. If the skimpy outifts were not turning a profit, I suppose the merchants would have to come up with a new formula. I haven't found anything worth buying in the marketplace for a while (well except the new hairs. Love the new hairs Plus3D are pumping out and so in my wishlist they went) I also happen to like the short bobs of Studio11.

As far as clothing, the marketplace doesn't reflect what I'm personally looking for. I seek casual wear. I know skimpy, fantasy stuff is the way in Poserdom. I've accepted this and await the times vendors like Hongyu, OutofTouch, 9mbi etc submit quality clothing to the marketplace. It's a shame 9mbi's clothes aren't given addons as much as say...a maiden lingerie. I know for myself, addons are the reason I'll purchase a product  I previously thought was too trite. That's probably my biggest gripe. Not so much the lack of clothing (as I've gotten used to that) but the lack of support for the ones I do like. I mean, how many textures do we need for a Corset?

I agree and originality seems to be null and void these days, I dont even check the 2d stuff because all that is is copycat items over and over.  the best things I have been seeing lately are hair products and then again, you can only have so much hair.

It's not only here, it's almost general in poserdom, with some exceptions. Orginality and innovation has left the building a while back and with the introduction of V4 it has certainly gone downhill very fast.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Just because the admins say there are 2000 merchants doesn't mean there are 2000 merchants.
Many many many have left. leaveing a relitively few that are prolific. (yes I can name them)
They in turn drive a lot of the remaining others into types of products.

Product saturation has allways been a continueing problem (girls dressing there barbie dolls).

When ever someone says they still use P4pro or v3 they are ignored or swamped, yet the truth is MOST* *people do not upgrade to every newest and greatest that comes around.

Yet a relitivly small group (of rich people) around here dominates the market and forums.

See the forum post to see what I mean- all P7 or propack (of the half dozen total post a day)
Sad to remember when it was 150 post a day, 'sigh'

Quote - Product saturation has allways been a continueing problem (girls dressing there barbie dolls).

Dunno, I think at least half of the heavy buyers are boys dressing their barbie dolls...

My Freebies

Hi to the OP: I think its a combo of you just becoming jaded and the "market" stagnating with the same old same old

Example: they are finally releasing M4 and yippeee !!  we already see previews of some medieval "middle earthish" Armor, castles & props.

(Disclamer: I am probably one of the biggest Lord of the Rings Fanboys you will find but ..C'mon!!)

soon to be followed by some Ultra pretty semi androgenous "bishie"  boy fodder for the drooling masses with Cliched character names like "Blain" for M4  etc .etc.

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote "Yet a relativly small group (of rich people) around here dominates the market and forums" END

I have to wonder exactly how many people are in debt up to there eyeballs with this stuff.  I read over at Daz about "crying credit cards", people claiming they are buying ASAP when a new product comes out or the people I read who are sneaking there CC from their spouses when they aren't aware/looking :blink:  Or are they just BS'ing for the sake of yakking in the fora.

I just don't see many "must haves" out there nowadays in fact VERY rarely.

Unless you're a merchant there's no such thing as a "must have" in the poser world, when you're a merchant everyone "must have" your new item.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Quote - Quote "Yet a relativly small group (of rich people) around here dominates the market and forums" END

I have to wonder exactly how many people are in debt up to there eyeballs with this stuff.  I read over at Daz about "crying credit cards", people claiming they are buying ASAP when a new product comes out or the people I read who are sneaking there CC from their spouses when they aren't aware/looking :blink:  Or are they just BS'ing for the sake of yakking in the fora.

I just don't see many "must haves" out there nowadays in fact VERY rarely.

As a Merchant here for over 7 years  I must say i am very happy that people are willing to spend thier money on poser items.

But  admitedly i was Amazed when I read over at DAZ some posts where peopl say they have $3000 of items on their "wishlists"

My website

YouTube Channel

There was 1 who said they had $6000!!!

These people must have w/l'ing since day 1 LOL.

It seems a common misconception in the US that sales represent consumer desire, that things will not sell unless people want them. American's have become a captive market whose purchases are shaped by the whim or taste of the producers... how many real life women can afford to reject fashion and dress sensibly at a reasonable cost rather than becoming "Fashion Victims" for the sake of their social and professional lives. People seem to me to buy what is made available to them and what is promoted to them... production seems rarely a reflection of consumer desire as opposed to what is foisted on consumers IMHO. Likewise, we have long since left behind "competitive pricing" or "cost plus pricing" which have been replaced by "what the market will bare" pricing.

Good thoughts people :)
I can see how most peoples tastes change as they grow with poser. I may be little bit if an exception to this since I came from high end into poser. If anything, my critical view of most poser content has dulled a bit.

As for the quality, yes, originality would be a significant part of it, but I still wouldn't go for a low quality original item. Lingerie, I wouldn't mind it do much if it was well done, and more creative.

I suppose a number of vendors leaving for DAZ is a factor. I've been frustrated with DAZ too, since the merge with PoerPros. It too has had an influx of lower end product, and its harder and harder to find stuff I'm impressed with.

While we had some nice characters come out lately, seems like clothing suffers the most.
I wish we had more Ayery Souls, Stonemasons, blackhearteds, Uzilites and similar.

I know a lot of people like 9mbi, and it seems to fill the mid level need, and is great for group and non-closeup scenes. Seems like more and more we don't get anything thats' much higher level then 9mbi. But yet, galleries are filled with close up images of items that should never be zoomed to very closely (because they start looking too cartoonish).

I look at Billy-T, I absolutely LOVED his T-coat, and looked forward to what he'll make next, and seems like things have gone down instead of up from there. I've seen this with a good number of other top vendors.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Hi Connie,

I couldn't agree more, the marketplace is every day much more of the same and with an alarming low quality. It's been a long time ago that I said "WOW!, that looks good"
But what happened to your outfit, you were creating, that was a real beauty

Best regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

Quote - I agree and originality seems to be null and void these days, I dont even check the 2d stuff because all that is is copycat items over and over.  the best things I have been seeing lately are hair products and then again, you can only have so much hair.

 
BLASPHAMY!!! :tt2: Any hair by AprilYSH goes in my cart these days! I'm actually trying to render more and buy less these days. I only recently broke out the credit card to buy Sydney's Ultimate head and Body morphs from RDNA because they work on Olivia. While I was there they snuck He-Bot and She-Bot into my cart! Arrrggghhh! <Ooo Shiney!!>

I'd really love to see more for the male Poser models, especially M3 and Apollo. Unfortunately, as always, the male Poser models get left out. I wouldn't be surprised to see that once the excitement dies down that M4 will go the fate of his predecessors.

9mbi has become my hero. His items are extremely inexpensive and fill the void for V4 to have real clothing. I only wish that vendors would make add-ons (as mentioned already) for all those cute outfits.

It is but a dream I have...

6K for a wishlist? Holy cr@p! :blink:

As far as Freestuff and quality goes, my sig pretty much covers how I feel about Freestuff. :biggrin:

Brynna

With your arms around the future, and your back up against the past
You're already falling
It's calling you on to face the music.

The Moody Blues

Dell Desktop XPS 8940 i9, three 14 tb External drives, 64 GB DDR4 RAM, NVidia RTX 3060 12 GB DDR5.
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Well I'm thankfull to have a market place.  As for what is in it.....I also like those old realistic textures,  Dal's Rick, Quim2005, lobo75 ect. But maybe things are going through a transition and great stuff will come back around.  Rendo though has always been a great place, perhaps products will change as peoples demand changes.

Quote - Hi Connie,

I couldn't agree more, the marketplace is every day much more of the same and with an alarming low quality. It's been a long time ago that I said "WOW!, that looks good"
But what happened to your outfit, you were creating, that was a real beauty
Best regards,
Bopper.

Hey Bopper, thanks for asking :)
My outfit has been submitted to Rendo today :)  YAY.
Target release date is Nov 7th

I also have the windy wizard robe texture add on I'm submitting today.

___
Renderosity Store  Personal nick: Conniekat8
Hi, my name is "No, Bad Kitteh, NOO", what's yours? 

as a vendor i have found that if your not creating for the newest latest thing here .....then it's not saleable and won't be allowed into the market place.
my last 3 texture items were denied as they were not for v4 items but the older v3
which i still use mostly. so i have given up on my store here and moved on to a different one.
netta

www.oodlesdoodles.com

There are some recent things I've been buying, like an outfit at daz that was closish to a game outfit I've wanted to see made (but it's missing the dress), however I think there aren't as many things that have interested me as when I've first gotten here.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

I'm kinda with the poster who said maybe it's the amount of time spent here that's changed our view of products in the MP. I still use, on a regular basis, character meshes I bought five years ago, because there hasnt been much that's really screamed BUY ME! since. I'll buy an occasional texture and then rework it for my own needs or a set prop and then rescale it to fit the characters I use. But I happily ignored all the stuff for V3 and will no doubt do the same for V4 and A4. It's just not interesting, sorry.

And I happily accept that I'm well within the minority on that point. But I find it amusing to see sooooooooooo much similar stuff out there. The note about the expected products for M4 is a valid one: I love the final results -- even M4 itself was worth the wait (and I say that in my own astonishment) -- but did any of us really expect anything original?

But let's not forget that buying in the MP is all about impulse, which is why we see so many scanty outfits and cookie-cutter showgirl textures. It's that "Ooo bright shiny!" syndrome: a product sells well for about two weeks, then gets lost in the rush of everything else, so the merchant has to make sure it sells damn well for those two weeks. Ergo: Ooo! Bright! Shiny! :)

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Quote - I'm kinda with the poster who said maybe it's the amount of time spent here that's changed our view of products in the MP.

Wow, that's like when John McCain called Barack Obama "That One".  :tt2:

ps: not arguing with you, I buy pretty much nothing for Poser any more, Dimension3D's tools are all I've spent money on in the past few months ;)

My Freebies

Heh, maybe I spoke too soon... a little bit at least. Just in last couple of days I saw a few nicer places in the MP. Maybe Vendors are saving their best for the holiday shopping season.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - I'm kinda with the poster who said maybe it's the amount of time spent here that's changed our view of products in the MP. I still use, on a regular basis, character meshes I bought five years ago, because there hasnt been much that's really screamed BUY ME! since. I'll buy an occasional texture and then rework it for my own needs or a set prop and then rescale it to fit the characters I use. But I happily ignored all the stuff for V3 and will no doubt do the same for V4 and A4. It's just not interesting, sorry.

And I happily accept that I'm well within the minority on that point. But I find it amusing to see sooooooooooo much similar stuff out there. The note about the expected products for M4 is a valid one: I love the final results -- even M4 itself was worth the wait (and I say that in my own astonishment) -- but did any of us really expect anything original?

But let's not forget that buying in the MP is all about impulse, which is why we see so many scanty outfits and cookie-cutter showgirl textures. It's that "Ooo bright shiny!" syndrome: a product sells well for about two weeks, then gets lost in the rush of everything else, so the merchant has to make sure it sells damn well for those two weeks. Ergo: Ooo! Bright! Shiny! :)

ditto!  i feel the same way as Conniekat8, but i do still think it's me.  i think the market is condensing some, because the trend from independent creators to mass merchants wasn't quantized but continual.  and it's still happening.  as the good become great and the great become amazing (Stonemason, Lourdes, etc.), demand for quality goes up.  more skill can only do so much; at some point hard work has to make up the rest.  well, not only does that mean you need to reduce your work by repurposing base elements, but you need to make sure your products sell more and more.

and it's all circular.  i got told once in the forums that there was no way people would buy products for males and females if DAZ started pushing products that were based on traditional fine art (say Renaissance to pre-Raphaelites).  frankly, i don't buy that.  i think if all the fairy girl pictures in the DAZ gallery were precisely the same skill level but in a more fine art style, everyone would be aspiring to a differnt aim.  as is, if you're part of the Poser community, you have to deliberately block out all the media pushing the main popular Poser types to even think of something else.  there's tons of popular genres out there that are neglected in Poserdom.  but the community is caught in a tightening popularity loop.

advertising works, and one of the primary functions of the galleries and forums is advertising. 

if you've been here a while, it's very visible.  every year, there's less interesting stuff.  every year the stuff that is interesting gets a little lower quality on average and relative to skimpy fantasy girl outfit no. 1,000, 002.  every year, the art fits more and more rigid parameters, as more of the skilled follow norms or leave, and the unskilled are shown more and more limited examples of what good and appealing artwork should be.  again and again, i've watched those who've grown artistically, not just improved their skills but explored different visions, leave the community.

maybe things will change.  but it would take a really, really big change of some sort.  for instance, when D|S gets dynamic clothes, it may become much easier to make clothes, and more profitable to give people creative power not tied to a specific style.  Poser 8 might finally be the draw to higher end users its team seems to want it to be.  certainly life is often unexpected.  but i'm not counting on an end to trend towards a singular and incredibly proscribed artistic vision.  i actually think that's happening in most media, anyway.

Quote - but the community is caught in a tightening popularity loop.

This is entirely the Poser community's own fault.  Different voting systems that are provided by Renderosity and other places provide an outlet for it, but the basic drive to "win" the gallery game comes from the people playing it.  I ignore it as much as possible but it still makes me cringe when my nose is rubbed in it (which is any time I click the default gallery link here and see 2/3 of the page dedicated to the popularity game. but oh well).

edit: aside from that, I'm doing all I can to bring a new renaissance of small breasts, thick thighs, short legs, and big noses, everything that is good about classical art in the feminine form, but I am only one person ;)

My Freebies

It's all moot I guess vendors will be like politicians ignore most of us and do as they please. Oh well what can you say?

My Facebook Page

It's all about the buyer/consumer base I guess.  Most go for the popularity, and thus this is where V4 comes in.  What I'm noticing is that there's nothing new as far as her body shape goes, the same default shape, and the texture (sets) are two sides of the coin: great here and bleh there.

I haven't spend much on V4, as I would like to make my own creations (I might go for jasmina's, SaintFox's or 9mbi's stuff), and I'm also eyeing on D3D's Morphing Clothes as a buy, but that's pretty much it.

I do miss the vender's of the past though: Danae, Uzilite; at least Aery Soul's holding on their own though.

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Asus N50-600 - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home/11 upgrade 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 1TB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x

The interesting thing about all of this is that the tools for vendors are getting so good.  PhilC and Dimension3D have excellent ways to assist vendors.  Even my C4D plugin can export Poser-ready morphs, poses, animations.  So, why is it that the quality is going down but the amount of work is also going down?

You'd think that with all of these available tools there would be more quality stuff for Poser figures (morphs, textures, outfits).

And here is one of my answers: these market places are not really great to work with.  Renderosity takes a large cut and every part of the process takes a lot of work for the vendor (that is, there are numerous guidelines to follow and a lot of minutia that just makes the process that more nerve-wracking).  This is why so many vendors bolted - remember?  There should be no size restriction (or at least one relevant to the times - I regularly download 200MB or 1.5GB OS updates or products - 70MB is pffff these days).  Product updates should be much easier and faster.  Products shouldn't be relegated to some bin after a few months of lag (which should be really bad at this point) and then removed after a few more.  I realize that this helps Rendo to keep the number of products down for their servers but it seems an incorrect way to do it.  For instance, if a product that is removed with others based on it, the user may want this accessory product but can't purchase the required base.  So, they don't get the accessory product and it languishes.  It is a vicious circle.

Unfortunately, the entire process of creating figures, props, poses, animations, materials, clothing, and so on is not a simple process for the feignt of heart.  If it were, these extra impediments and the low income wouldn't be so detrimental.  I'm not advocating raising prices nor am I advocating lower quality 'you get what you pay for' products.  What is needed is better ways to make Poser content (and these are growing) and better returns on the investment in time and work.

As an example, I spent about six months researching, designing, and building my Futeinokatana product.  In the real world, this amount of work might be worth $50K-100K minimum.  In poser world, this only amounts to $5K-$10K.  It makes all of the effort seem rather futile.  There are 3D modelers and riggers out there in studios making much, much, much more than this per year.  Where is the gratification?  The law of diminishing returns prevails.  You want quality, you have to pay for it.  My honest opinion is that stores like the RMP need to stop taking such deep cuts of sales so that there is at least a modicum of profitable return on the hard work of the vendor - eh. hem. ;P

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Quality is going down.
Originality is next to nil (with a few notable exceptions).
Pin-ups and T&A-styled 'items' are dominating the market. (Excuse me while I gag.)
And prices continue to go UP and UP and UP.
Lack of support for the males (especially M3 and D3 and the Freak).
Lack of support for the pre-teens and toddlers and the baby figures.

This is why, with just a couple of exceptions for certain merchants, I do not buy in Rendo. The only places I really buy from on a regular basis is RDNA and Daz, and even those are getting rare, too.

V4 is crap. M4 is crap. NOT IMPRESSED with either one. I have to this point, yet to put V4 to any common use. Once in a blue moon I pull her out when I have to. Then put her away again and go cool off my temper. I HATE the Gen-4's, I have a list of gripes a mile long with them.

I resisted the switch from V2/M2 to V3/M3 as well, but after working with the Mil3's, I admit they are nice figures, with nice morphs. Still, to this day I will render with my P4fmale/emales, my Generation2's.

The market places are useless for those of us who do not do nudity, T&A's and pinup shots, by and large. And I have no intention to spend anymore cash on M4 or V4, that's for bloody sure. I picked up each of them, an outfit or two and morphs just to be able to provide some BASIC product support.

But then I also am not a merchant. I'm a freebie creator. I have always been a freebie maker. I will always BE a freebie maker. The entire marketplace mentality makes me sick and I have burned several times by Rendo and another place I shall not name. So I stick to making my freebies, and am glad to make them free. I keep hoping I'll get a better handle on raw modelling, because let me tell you, if I COULD model clothing and rig it and get it to conform etc, I would definitely be doing it for the neglected figures and such out there. I wish I could. Hexagon makes my mind explode. Wings3D I only barely have an amateur's handle on and I've been using it for years. Carrara? Too expensive, way too far over my head. Same for 3DSMax, Rhino3D, Lightwave, Maya, etc etc.

I think what the marketplace boils down to, is a symptom of society in general - and society in general, at least here in the united states, is degenerating more and more each year. There are times where I am tempted to pack up my kid and my belongings, take the great hike north into the Lady's icy tundra where things are still natural as She and nature intended, and never look back. The market places are just a symptom of the same stuff.

People respond to sex. So that's what gets advertised. People respond to pinups, skimpy dresses, and those 'warrioresses' who run around in bloody armoured underwear. (Don't get me started on THAT one....)

I won't bother to post up what I'd like to see in the marketplaces, because truth be told, unless it's really exceptional, AND I happen to have spare cash I can afford to part with, I'm not going to buy it any-darn-way. I'll always, ALWAYs hit the freebie areas first. (There's another pet-peeve for you. Rendo absolutely DESTROYED their bloody freebie database with this )(&£%&£^%)(&*#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! new search method they have. There are no words for how much I hate it.)

Conclusion is? People buy skimpy and slutty. They don't buy every-day and realistic very often. This phenomenon goes for things like skin textures, and hair objects and shoes as well. Have you tried looking for just a plain old pair of sneakers? Good luck finding them. What about jeans and a t-shirt? You know, that AREN'T skin tight or have such a low v-necklin that you can see the breasts popping out of them a mile away...

I better stop here. I'm ranting again.

• seliah

Well, you guys, (conniekat8 here, but under my vendor name)... I just made a new piece for Apollo. (go to marketplace, -> what's new!  it just came out).
Let's see it die a quick death of the rest of non v4 pieces LOLOL!

As a side note, I'm actually curious about getting a few opinions on the textures.

___
Renderosity Store  Personal nick: Conniekat8
Hi, my name is "No, Bad Kitteh, NOO", what's yours? 

Quote - Well, you guys, (conniekat8 here, but under my vendor name)... I just made a new piece for Apollo. (go to marketplace, -> what's new!  it just came out).
Let's see it die a quick death of the rest of non v4 pieces LOLOL!

As a side note, I'm actually curious about getting a few opinions on the textures.

Killer

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

first day in the store, when there's most sales... not one sale, and only 6 wishlist clicks.
sniffle

I suppose with M4 out, the timing is no good.  I should have released it few months ago, when it was almost finished.  Oh well!

(Yes, I'm whining)

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I think that you're going to find that most people have less disposable income of late (unless you are the CEO of a large banking/lending firm).  I'm at rock bottom at the moment and resisting very hard not to increase the balance on my credit cards (which were decreasing nicely until recently).  It is going to get much worse before there are any improvements.  People are being laid off in droves.  Thank you, Mr. Bush, for grinding the country and world into dust.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Yeah, I've been laid off in March from my engineering job, and still no work on the horizon.
Trying to pick up some contract work here and there, but there isn't much going on.

I heard on the news today that the next stimulus package will extend unemployment benefits, and put some money in infrastructure development. I hope that helps.

Depressing!

I thought at least I'd get more then 6 wishlist add's. That's even more depressing, people are not even windowshopping.  Very depressing.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
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Well, good luck getting a new job.  I've got a feeling things will turn around quickly once people stop panicing.

And I saw your textureand it was nice, but I don't have Apollo or his wizard outfit...

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Thank You Winterclaw!   :)

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - Well, you guys, (conniekat8 here, but under my vendor name)... I just made a new piece for Apollo. (go to marketplace, -> what's new!  it just came out).
Let's see it die a quick death of the rest of non v4 pieces LOLOL!

As a side note, I'm actually curious about getting a few opinions on the textures.

LOVE the burlap texture but even though I have Apollo(and never used him), I don't have the main outfit.

Be mad...until proven genius.

Sitting quietly in the corner does not make one the class fool.

- Didi

RDNA Store

Thanks Witchdidi :)
I'm considering converting that outfit to M4

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - Thanks Witchdidi :)
I'm considering converting that outfit to M4

I would pick it if it had the burlap texture!

Be mad...until proven genius.

Sitting quietly in the corner does not make one the class fool.

- Didi

RDNA Store

Anyways it would be nice if every thing you need for a movie with a them like LOTR, Matrix,POTC.ect ect was sold all in one package.with low polycount meshes.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Conniekat8

Quote - Thanks Witchdidi :)
I'm considering converting that outfit to M4

Oh, I hope you do! I was going to originally click to see more until I saw it was for Apollo. Probably others like me. Unless it has changed (or maybe I mis-read some licenses), too much Apollo stuff is not licensed for commercial use - a deal breaker for me. So I rarely ever use him.

Quote - I think that you're going to find that most people have less disposable income of late (unless you are the CEO of a large banking/lending firm).  I'm at rock bottom at the moment and resisting very hard not to increase the balance on my credit cards (which were decreasing nicely until recently).  It is going to get much worse before there are any improvements.  People are being laid off in droves.  Thank you, Mr. Bush, for grinding the country and world into dust.

Previous Potential Customers have all been reading
Soft Addiction Solution
"Buying Addictions"

After almost 40 years of sailing large merchant ships (atleast 20 years away from home & family), I can now retire with what should be a respectable pension.
However, with the economy in such a tanked state of affairs, I am very leery of retiring.
A few years ago, I would have taken the Lump Sum Distribution.
Now I would take the Monthly Income Pension Check.

For the past several months, I have been attempting to train myself to live off of what my monthly pension would be.
This means No More Impulse Buying and considering much more exactly how I spend my Disposable income.

For KonnieKat
I mentioned this before.
I use ApolloMax a lot and have a lot of items for ApolloMax.
Wizards has never been in my thoughts of renders.
I always though that the quality of your products was excellent, but if I do not do wizards, then not a very useful tool to me.
That being said, I did recently buy The Wizard Robe during one of RMP Sales.
So far I haven't even unzipped it.

Yes, I have watched the progression of you Add-On pack, Fantastic work as always.
Unfortunately, if I haven't used the Robe, I cannot justify buying the Add-On.

IMHO, the timing of your release was severly hampered by the 10,000 Downloads of M4.

Apollo seems to be a Niche Market, hopefully sales will pickup once the M4 Flood subsides.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Quote -
Unless it has changed (or maybe I mis-read some licenses), too much Apollo stuff is not licensed for commercial use - a deal breaker for me. So I rarely ever use him.

I buy a lot of ApolloMax Items.
I am interested in exactly what you are refering to here.
Are you saying that all merchants that sell Apollo Items are highly restricted?
I have seen some very popular merchant names selling Apollo Goods.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Quote - Anyone else under this impression, or am I havig a burnout?

Maybe it's ennui, i.e., just too much of a good thing for too long?

How about let's all drop Poser and all the 3d software and grab a block of marble, a mallet, and a rusty chisel and start chipping away?

;*)

Quote - > Quote - Anyone else under this impression, or am I havig a burnout?

Maybe it's ennui, i.e., just too much of a good thing for too long?

How about let's all drop Poser and all the 3d software and grab a block of marble, a mallet, and a rusty chisel and start chipping away?

;*)

:>) I think I will go for a Log and a Chain Saw.

Already have the Chain Saw, easy enough to acquire the log.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Quote - It's all moot I guess vendors will be like politicians ignore most of us and do as they please. Oh well what can you say?

Well, a large percentage of all the vendors around here got their start as hobbiests, I believe, and as such, they started out making just what they liked. That has pretty much set their work flow for making anything. The only vendor, clothing wise, that I know who has consistantly made decent clothing of every period and genre, as well as clothing by public requests, is Steve Shanks of Poserworld. So, not all vendors are cut from the same cloth.

Quote - > Quote -

Unless it has changed (or maybe I mis-read some licenses), too much Apollo stuff is not licensed for commercial use - a deal breaker for me. So I rarely ever use him.

I buy a lot of ApolloMax Items.
I am interested in exactly what you are refering to here.
Are you saying that all merchants that sell Apollo Items are highly restricted?
I have seen some very popular merchant names selling Apollo Goods.

I'm not aware of any apollo items in the marketplace being commercially restricted. I'm not aware that any marketplace items are comercially restricted. Those restrictions usually only apply to freebies.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - > Quote - Anyone else under this impression, or am I havig a burnout?

Maybe it's ennui, i.e., just too much of a good thing for too long?
How about let's all drop Poser and all the 3d software and grab a block of marble, a mallet, and a rusty chisel and start chipping away?
;*)

I prefer clay :)
LOL, I often play with a piece of clay, lately with polymer clay rather then regular wet clay.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I still say the world needs more Terai Yuki 2 stuff. It saddens me to see so many in the clearance section, and not a proportionate amount of new stuff being pumped out. TY2 is too darn cute to leave by the wayside! o.o

Oh, and Connie, if you think the Marketplace here is bad, you oughta check out "World of Poses", otherwise known as CP. :D

I swear, each page seems to be at least 75% pose sets.. :>

 

Currently using Poser Pro 2012 (Display Units = feet)

AMD Phenom II 3.2ghz (6 cores)

8gb RAM

Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Well, it is only sensible: it takes the same amount of time to model and texture a piece of clothing for any figure.  It takes a certain amount of time to rig it (notably less for V4).  It takes a certain amount of time to do morphs.  Now, you can make $1 for that specific amount of time - or you can make $5 for it.  Which would you prefer?

My Freebies

If it's all about the money, why not do something more profitable with your time than creating Poser stuff?

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&amp;userid=323368

I don't think it is all about the money for many.  It is more about opportunity and confidence.  You can make billions investing in stocks like William Buffett - why aren't you doing that?  Oh, you aren't an expert and it isn't your forte?  See my point?

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone

Quote - I still say the world needs more Terai Yuki 2 stuff. It saddens me to see so many in the clearance section, and not a proportionate amount of new stuff being pumped out. TY2 is too darn cute to leave by the wayside! o.o

Oh, and Connie, if you think the Marketplace here is bad, you oughta check out "World of Poses", otherwise known as CP. :D

I swear, each page seems to be at least 75% pose sets.. :>

I havent' been to CP in ages... I'm a little miffed with them. They host the apollo forum, but wouldn't put my apollo creations in their marketplace. I still can't figure that one out.  I even had to sit and listen to several Apollo fans chastize me for not offering my stuff at CP. Go figure.

I shop here and at DAZ, and every now and then at RDNA. Unfortunately, By the time I ge tto looking at RDNA, I've spent my Poser allowance between Rendo and DAZ.

The good thing about having fewer quality items lately is that I've been completing my collection of 'oldies but goodies' like older Aery soul pieces etc.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Poser content creators aren't first-rate for the most part. I know there are exceptions, but you have to search for them. 

Personally, I wouldn't be happy cranking out the same sort of product month after month, but I guess there are worse ways to make a living. 

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&amp;userid=323368

Of course it's not all about the money, but just the same for someone who is capable of making Poser content at all in any kind of quantity, most of them will be looking at how practical their time spent is going to be.  I mean, once you have seen figures X, Y and Z naked, they lose a lot of their charm and modeling clothing for them becomes more about how much you can get done, of what quality, and in how much time - and for people trying to make their living at this like many of the prolific vendors, how effectively their work invested will keep them fed.

My Freebies

>> They host the apollo forum, but wouldn't put my apollo creations in their marketplace.

Just as DAZ has... uhm... issues with hosting products for characters not for sale at their site, is it possible that CP has issues with selling something for a character they dont have available for sale? I dont know if CP has other Apollo stuff available or not, but maybe that has something to do with it?

you oughta check out "World of Poses", otherwise known as CP*.

Face it: Rosity is just as bad in that regard. I think we can spread the blame around on that one pretty easily.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Quote - >> They host the apollo forum, but wouldn't put my apollo creations in their marketplace.

Just as DAZ has... uhm... issues with hosting products for characters not for sale at their site, is it possible that CP has issues with selling something for a character they dont have available for sale? I dont know if CP has other Apollo stuff available or not, but maybe that has something to do with it? 

I forget the exact response in the email they sent me, since it's been a few months. it was very short, one sentence, and the gist of what they told me was that they were only looking for stuff for their figures. (They didn't say which figures) - that I remember, because I wound up saying, since you guys host Apollo forum, I thought he was one of the figures your company patronizes.
They never even bothered to send back a clarification!!!

They do have a number of Apollo items in their stores. I don't know how they got there. Perhaps from store partnerships or previous policy, who knows.

I'm more miffed about their lack of communication, then their non-interest in Apollo products.

One thing I do know is that it was not because of the lack of quality of my work, because few months, at siggraph, later I showed DAZ that very same item, and even though it was for Apollo, they were falling all over themselves to sign me on as a vendor over there (for upcoming work).
Well, I know my work is good, and it's only going to get better - their loss.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I too am jaded with what is generally offered for sale of late.

I am an ultra-realism freak....
Time was you could expect to see regular releases from quality merchants.
Every other day something would grab my eye, be it character, morphs or textures.
It has been a long time since then though.

It seems very much out of fashion in the Poser world of late.

Klutz :0/

********************************************************************************************************************

Life is a beta.

In faecorum semper, solum profundum variat.

Conniekat8

Quote -
I'm not aware of any apollo items in the marketplace being commercially restricted. I'm not aware that any marketplace items are comercially restricted. Those restrictions usually only apply to freebies.

Cool! Thanks for clearing that up. I probably ran through a bunch of those restricted licenses from some freebies when looking for specific items and gave up at the time. I used to run across that a lot a few years ago. It may have been elsewhere and the impression stuck with me that there was a problem with using Apollo and the stuff for him commercially.

I'm more miffed about their lack of communication, then their non-interest in Apollo products.

I wouldnt be. Look, you wouldnt be accepted at DAZ because it's not in support of any of the Mil figures, right? CP is simply doing the same thing: if it's not in Poser 7, either as an original or as one of the figures that come in with under the Partners umbrella, they're not going to be interested. The earlier products probably came in "under the wire", as it were.

An Apollo forum? Somewhat different. There's no money involved in setting up a forum. I havent looked at their fora, but I imagine there are threads all over the place about V4.2 and (now) M4 and their predecessors.

So I'd cut CP some slack in that regard. It's asking Ford to sell a product designed for a Chevy... wherea s this place, it seems, will sell just about anything. Have you approached the MP here about it? Failing that, is there a private store that you can hook up with? I noticed PhilC was carrying a product in his store that he didnt create; maybe there's another vendor going it alone that would work with you? After all, it's for a specific character that has a constantly increasing audience -- seems to me that where you sold it would be immaterial. Word would spread fast enough.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Well, I don't know if DAZ would be open to anything for Apollo Max, but I've been shocked recently to see that they are selling products for Miki 2 and Terai Yuki. So maybe the door is opening.

kalonart.com

Let's hope so, because, frankly, sometimes it seems a bit childish. There arent that many users out there, and this whole game of "I'm a bigger/more influential/more traveled store than you" gets a little tiresome sometimes.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Quote - >> I'm more miffed about their lack of communication, then their non-interest in Apollo products.

I wouldnt be. Look, you wouldnt be accepted at DAZ because it's not in support of any of the Mil figures, right? CP is simply doing the same thing: if it's not in Poser 7, either as an original or as one of the figures that come in with under the Partners umbrella, they're not going to be interested. The earlier products probably came in "under the wire", as it were.

An Apollo forum? Somewhat different. There's no money involved in setting up a forum. I havent looked at their fora, but I imagine there are threads all over the place about V4.2 and (now) M4 and their predecessors.

So I'd cut CP some slack in that regard. It's asking Ford to sell a product designed for a Chevy... wherea s this place, it seems, will sell just about anything. Have you approached the MP here about it? Failing that, is there a private store that you can hook up with? I noticed PhilC was carrying a product in his store that he didnt create; maybe there's another vendor going it alone that would work with you? After all, it's for a specific character that has a constantly increasing audience -- seems to me that where you sold it would be immaterial. Word would spread fast enough.

At the time eFrontier added the ApolloMax Forum, eFrontierContentParadise was in partnership with Anton and selling ApolloMaximus 2006 and related products.
After the falling out, CP kept the ApolloMax Forum for the Apollo fans.

Hook up with another vender - IMHO that is just what they do.
Look carefully and you will notice that any AM products that you see are in conjunctionpartnership with a CP Vendor. Haven't seen a single CP Apollo item, since Anton left.

Pretty sure that at least several Vendors sell their products at a different Content House, but get pretty good exposure in the CP Apollo Forums.

Ai agree on the FordChevy analogy as well.
Daz will Only Allow Daz Studio Rendered Promo Images and everything in that render must be from the Daz Store.
So exactly How is CP doing anything differently?

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Quote - Well, I don't know if DAZ would be open to anything for Apollo Max, but I've been shocked recently to see that they are selling products for Miki 2 and Terai Yuki. So maybe the door is opening.

That is in The AZ Store is it not?
I haven't noticed anything, other than Hair Fits, in the Daz Store.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Quote - If it's all about the money, why not do something more profitable with your time than creating Poser stuff?

Word up!

Quote -
That is in The AZ Store is it not?
I haven't noticed anything, other than Hair Fits, in the Daz Store.

Months ago, Capsces previewed her morphs for Terai Yuki in the DAZ forums. I'd been checking RDNA regularly looking for them... All the while, they were being sold at DAZ (DAZ proper, not ArtZone). Don't know if they were moved over from AZ, but with the vendor being Capsces, I kinda doubt it.

kalonart.com

Quote - >> I'm more miffed about their lack of communication, then their non-interest in Apollo products.

I wouldnt be. Look, you wouldnt be accepted at DAZ because it's not in support of any of the Mil figures, right? CP is simply doing the same thing: if it's not in Poser 7, either as an original or as one of the figures that come in with under the Partners umbrella, they're not going to be interested. The earlier products probably came in "under the wire", as it were.

An Apollo forum? Somewhat different. There's no money involved in setting up a forum. I havent looked at their fora, but I imagine there are threads all over the place about V4.2 and (now) M4 and their predecessors.

So I'd cut CP some slack in that regard. It's asking Ford to sell a product designed for a Chevy... wherea s this place, it seems, will sell just about anything. Have you approached the MP here about it? Failing that, is there a private store that you can hook up with? I noticed PhilC was carrying a product in his store that he didnt create; maybe there's another vendor going it alone that would work with you? After all, it's for a specific character that has a constantly increasing audience -- seems to me that where you sold it would be immaterial. Word would spread fast enough.

The way I see it, CP could have bothered to explain this, rather the my having to find out about it third hand. If they host Apollo Forum, and don't accept it's product in their marketplace, the least they can do is bother to exchange an email with an explanation about how things stand. They could even have a generic one to send out in cases like this.

At the time I was in frequent communications with Anton and OKC Randy and several other very involved Apollo enthusiasts and supporters, and as far as I remember, this was a surprise to all of them too (I was getting a lot of advice from those guys at the time, including offering the piece to CP)

As for DAZ, I wasn't offering them the Apollo Wizard Robe, and DAZ is much more clear about their interests then CP is. However, even with that, I was accepted as a vendor there based on the wizard robe. I didn't have any other pieces in my poser portfolio at the time. They actually bothered to have a conversation. Same with Renderosity marketplace staff, I always find them super helpful.

Here on Renderosity, The robe performed quite well for an Apollo piece. When I would look at it's sales rankings, there is only one Apollo product ahead of it, the Expression Image's Captain Quint.

The Wizard Robe has been out for the best part of this year, and I think it's pretty close to running it's course, so at this point, I'm not going to try and place it elsewhere to try and get into CP.  At the moment my interests are mostly in being exclusive at Rendo with one set of products, and at DAZ with another. That'll keep my hands quite full.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - Well, I don't know if DAZ would be open to anything for Apollo Max, but I've been shocked recently to see that they are selling products for Miki 2 and Terai Yuki. So maybe the door is opening.

No, they're not interested in Apollo, AFAIK, but they're also very open about it, and about how one can become a vendor there.
They don't host an Apollo forum, then tell you "We're interested only in 'our figures' " without explaining what they consider 'their figures' when you politely ask them for a clarification.

HA, here we go: I found the email I sent them, here's a partial copy and paste of my email : "I'm interested in finding out more about selling through Content Paradise."

The rest of the email gives them links to the Wizard Robe progress images, and links to images of my freebies which included couple architectural props, some V3 and some Apollo items, to 'show my work' 

My email  concludes with, *how do I go about finding more information about becoming a CP vendor for theese or any other products I make in the future?

I'd copy and paste CP response, but it's against the TOS here. Paraphrasing it says, in one sentence, we are only interested in 'our figures' (without actually naming the figures). Not a word or a link about any other details about becoming a vendor.

For example, DAZ signs you up first, then you submit products. At Rendo, you sign up and submit a product at the same time. I wanted to know how the process works at CP.

I'm looking at my follow-up email with questions. I asked them does that mean that they don't consider Apollo one of their figures in spite of hosting it's forum, and asking them if they have interest in props (like buildings etc), also if there's any written info about becoming a vendor in general.  This email was never replied to by CP.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I followed the instructions that CP gives you on their "Sell with CP page"

http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/static.php?name=selloncp

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote -
Look carefully and you will notice that any AM products that you see are in conjunctionpartnership with a CP Vendor. Haven't seen a single CP Apollo item, since Anton left.

So exactly How is CP doing anything differently?

See the clarifications I just posted. Re-reading my original email, I had approached them with interest in more information about becoming a vendor at CP (not just placing the wizard robe in their marketplace).

If CP invites people to contact them, people follow the instructions they posted, and then CP can't be bothered with more then one sentence answer, the last thing I'm going to do is to waste my time trying to figure out their nuances from the outside and third hand.

Mariner, are you the same guy that was PMing me at DAZ commins telling me I should sell the wizard robe at CP, and not believing that CP wasn't interested in it?  User name is different, but the avatar is the same.

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Connie you were lucky! At least they responded to your email! Back when I had an interest in trying to sell my stuff before the great giveaway, I emailed them and never EVER got a response even though some of my items were being sold there already through their Rendo partnership at the time! And my stuff was FOR EF/SM figures! Go figure!

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I suspected I wsn't the only one that got treated the same way.

I know of at least two other people with sizeable independent online stores that didn't get treated all that well when applying for CP partnership.
I couldn't even figure out if CP vendor and CP partnership are same or different.

Oh well, water under the bridge. 
I didn't realize people were going to start responding quite as much to that topic drift, but since they did, I thought I need to explain the whole interaction, so they can make up their mind on the whole story, rather then a small part of it.

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>> They don't host an Apollo forum, then tell you "We're interested only in 'our figures' " without explaining what they consider 'their figures' when you politely ask them for a clarification.

Best rule of thumb I can think of: Does it come with P7? Go for it. If not, dont bother... unless it's something like NearMe, which is a CP exclusive. Granted, sometimes it takes a little research -- which isnt to suggest you didnt do any. Obviously, from what others have written, at some point Apollo was considered part of the eF "family". But I'd look at it this way: if I did something for Ichiro 2 and something for Apollo, chances are better for the former, because he comes with the P7 package. May not be a huge seller (if at all, TTTT), but it would stand a better chance of acceptance because it's there when you load in your P7.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

To bring it back to subject...

Yeah, all of the MPs suck, TTTT. :)

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

I'd copy and paste CP response, but it's against the TOS here. Paraphrasing it says, in one sentence, we are only interested in 'our figures' (without actually naming the figures). Not a word or a link about any other details about becoming a vendor.

I don't understand that because there's a lot of support for allmost every figure on the CP-site, even Apollo Maximus, just take a look at their 3D-products/figures category. So where their response is coming from is a riddle to me. Very unproffesional for CP to respond like that.

regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

From reading in the Daz forums it sounds a good bit as if they are not big on writing back to people who offer them products either and when they do it is often after a month of hearing nothing. It is one of the things that simply astonishes me about this little industry really, staff feeling they don't need to respond to emails. I've never had a job where that was even an option much less SOP.

www.Calida3d.com
Daz studio and Poser content creators

Content Paradise are rude and unprofessional. I too wrote to them about selling stuff there, as I used to when Renderosity was a partner with them. The sum total of their response? A big fat zero. They invite you to write to them and then can't even be bothered to respond, even just to say thanks but no thanks. With an attitude like that, they don't deserve to be in business.

It's starting to sound like the folks running all of the MPs could use a brush-up course on proper business correspondence. :-)

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

(I didn't read all of it)

I agree that there isn't a hell of a lot of "Gotta have it" in the MP these days.
It's mostly V4, and before that it was mostly V3/A3.
I'm sick to death of wire hair. There are actually precious little hair figures I consider buying, so usually I pass altogether and paint it instead.
And if you want to know why -- well. The hairstyles are either too similar to something I already have, or shabby, with flat strand meshes that zigzag instead of curve (that's a pet hate of mine), or the style is too outlandish to use more than once, after the initial excitement has worn off and you realize what you bought. Or they don't support the males -- which is a no no for me.
Then when you do get a style that supports the males, it's usually too feminine for them. Meh. No thanks.
And when I do find a good quality hair I like -- the vendor doesn't make a new / updated version to support later figures. Well, duh. I'll fit the thing to whatever figure I want to use, and once that's done... I'll keep my money. (Had that on 3 hair figures so far. Inquired about a new version via PM/Email - One vendor was busy, but said they'd look at it, and that's okay. It means they are aware, and hopefully I'm not the only one asking for a new version.  The other one? Didn't bother responding at all.)
If I like a product and it's good quality -- I don't mind paying for it. Hell, I bought Horde and that wasn't exactly cheap. But I'll use that for a long time.
There is usually an outcry for male clothing, and we're told over and over how it doesn't sell (by the vendors).
How do you know it doesn't sell, when you don't produce something on par with the female stuff? If it's quality, people will get it, especially since there is precious little out there that has the quality and usability of the female gear. GOOD QUALITY coupled with VERSATILITY is going to sell. People are starved for it.
Well, I was hunting for some M3 clothes just this afternoon -- and the stuff I saw was all not up to the standard I want to buy. Like I said, if it's good quality, and has a lot of utility / morphs, then I don't mind putting my money where my mouth is.
But I consider "Utility" to be more than just "Heavy" "Muscular1" "Muscular2" and "Tone" morphs.
I won't be paying $30 for something like that. (A product I saw this afternoon, not here, was $30 and had NO morphs...)
If you can do it for V3 and V4, then you can do it for M3/D3 (and M4 now). Enough with the excuses. Everyone and their dog seems to be perfectly able to do a boobs morph in V4, but a Pectoral morph is something I have yet to see.
As I said, we're forever told the male stuff doesn't sell, but the fact is that the male stuff usually doesn't sell because the quality isn't there.
If someone were to make a pair of pants for the males with as much versatility and usability as Jasmina's Daily Wear (for instance) -- Hell, I'd be jumping on it!
But no. Instead we get another tube dress for V4.
Sick of it. Seriously sick of it.
The same goes for textures.
I really like the ArtCollab textures, because they are very well done. I don't want another texture with a baked on tattoo and plastic skin for M3. (I don't want it for V3/V4 either!)
There are a gazillion really good V4 textures out there. I can probably count the really good M3 textures without having to use my toes to make up the number.
The thing is, the "Male stuff doesn't sell" needs to be amended to "Crap male stuff doesn't sell".
And BTW - if you make something really good for D3 -- make it for M3 as well. (Or M4 now too)
I saw some great stuff for D3 this afternoon - but I use M3 more than D3 and it was M3 I needed things for.
I get more out of Poserworld these days than from the MP. Best investment I ever made, hands down.

Silke

Quote - It's starting to sound like the folks running all of the MPs could use a brush-up course on proper business correspondence. :-)

I always found Rendo staff super responsive and forthcoming when it comes to my vendor experiences.

With DAZ, I PMed wone of their staff long tiome ago, and never heard back - but I wasn't sure if I PMed the right person. By the time I was ready to approach them, it was siggraph time, and since it was practically in my back yard, I went to siggraph.  Over there I started chatting with people at DAZ booth, I remember it was Chad and Dan and Mark Bremmer, and Rob Weisenhart. I started chatting with them, then they got on line and looked at my Wizard Robe... They were pretty impressed with it, even if it was for Apollo.  After that it was pretty smooth sailing. Now I just have to get busy and make something for them.

 I went back and forth lingering around Smith Micro's Poser booth, to see if there's anyone I can talk to... But never saw a single staff member at it.

And Rendo booth was great, I got to meet Debbie and Staci in person :)

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*Silke said:
As I said, we're forever told the male stuff doesn't sell, but the fact is that the male stuff usually doesn't sell because the quality isn't there.

• Well, I'll be making something for M4 before too long... So we'll see.

My experience with Apollo has been that the wizard robe I made paid for maybe 1/2 of 'reasonable time' I invested in it, over 6 months in the marketplace.

The add-on textures to it, if I am to judge by the first week of sales were nowhere near worth making.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
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Quote - *Silke said:
As I said, we're forever told the male stuff doesn't sell, but the fact is that the male stuff usually doesn't sell because the quality isn't there.

• Well, I'll be making something for M4 before too long... So we'll see.

My experience with Apollo has been that the wizard robe I made paid for maybe 1/2 of 'reasonable time' I invested in it, over 6 months in the marketplace.

The add-on textures to it, if I am to judge by the first week of sales were nowhere near worth making.

Sorry to hear that, Connie. Wish I could have done my share for you, but I've been out of work for nearly 3 months. Been borrowing money for food, and have too many unpaid, overdue bills and more ahead of me. It's been difficult. Just keep plugging away in the forums, and keep it in everyone's mind (and remember, everyone who might buy said robe and texture set is pouring cash into M4, the new guy).

-- Jeff

Jeff, I'm so sorry to hear that you too are out of work :(  it's been since March for me.  Sure seems lik more then 6 or 7% of people are out of work.

Speaking of textures, you're the last person I would expect to go out and buy them. You pulled the fast one on me on the wizard robe - you beta tested it, then went out to buy it... Even though you knew you are getting a free copy!!!!   You poop!

That reminds me....

 

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Conniekat, I don't use Apollo, so I can't speak for stuff for him (of which there is probably not enough).
I should have been clearer - the Daz males get the so-so stuff, usually.

Silke

Quote - > Quote - Product saturation has always been a continuing problem (girls dressing there barbie dolls).

Dunno, I think at least half of the heavy buyers are boys dressing their barbie dolls...

Had to respond to this! I so agree! And that's what drives the style... of which there is none. What do boys care about style? What do they know about style? Why is there so much tarty, sci-fi, ridiculous clothing for V4 out there? Look at the clothing types: heaps of lingerie, clothing you certainly wouldn't ever wear anywhere yourself, not even to a costume party.
9mbi is trying to break that trend, but - sorry - it all looks a bit dated.

Have a look at Vogue, or Woman's Day or even Cosmo... sheesh, any of those styles available on here? No, because it simply wouldn't sell. No boy is interested in a woman clothed in normal clothing, no matter how trendy. They see that in real life.

Which makes me wonder: what would be the ratio of male to female artist members? Might have something to do with it?

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

Part of the problem again is that huge numbers of people buy based on what "wins" the gallery game (at least here), which is scantily clad barbies.  Female artists cater to this as much as male artists do.

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Sheesh, that tongue of yours has the imagination reeling, pjz99... heheheheh I concede your point. What sort of art are we generating... and what do we need to make our artwork? If we changed our focus a bit, broadened our horizons ... there are so many subjects for artwork! Really, there are! It doesn't all have to be Boris Vallejo-themed depictions of ... well, you get my point.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

Great!  Now all you have to do is convince the people who play the gallery game.  ;)

My Freebies

 I have bought a whole lot of school scenes recently which are really great.  And there's some not too bad indoor house scenes either around here.
I have noticed a lack of M4 clothes and textures.
Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

I supported Animedoll, thinking that it was going to outsell any of Daz's overpriced crap. Now I see nothing for her OR her male counterpart that was released on Studiomaya's site.

Do the impossible, see the invisible

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

Touch the untouchable, break the unbreakable

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

I am and always will be a supporter of Terai Yuki 2, and I quite enjoy the more casual, everyday outfits that are available for her.. :D

Oh, and those school scene sets.. I definitely want to get those sometime. If anything, for all the fun accessories that I can pop in my renders..

 

Currently using Poser Pro 2012 (Display Units = feet)

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As a content creator....I concurr....boring.  :)

Sixus, I swear.. if I ever win the lottery, I'm gonna just have to visit your site, select all of the items, and go "yep... add to cart, baby."

Phenomenal stuff you've got! :D

 

Currently using Poser Pro 2012 (Display Units = feet)

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Thanks....I think.  ;p

Well, guys, this is nothing new. It's the same discussion we've had for the almost eight years I've been involved with this hobby. All I can say is, thank you, PhilC for Wardrobe Wizard. It may not be perfect, but it's expanded the wardrobes of my favourite character meshes, all of which have long gone by the wayside from a sales point of view.

And know what? Fine with me that they have, because it means I dont have to look in the gallery and see image after image that looks exactly like my stuff. My little niche may be exactly that -- very little -- but it's all mine, which is more than I can say for the cookie cutter Showgirls whose imagery are overly dependent on the Marketplace Flavour of the Week.

But I gotta tell ya: I still miss the days when DavidHo and DragonGirl frequented this place -- David in particular. There was some truy exciting stuff that pushed Poser right over the edge.

Sarte: there's still a lot being developed for the MayaDoll, but it means getting really deep with the Japanese sites. I must have close to a hundred bookmarked; you'd be surprised at some of the stuff we never find out about. But MD is still very much alive and well. Yeah, kind of a pity that the male version never took off -- but honestly, should we be at all surprised?

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

"...pimping to the male libido..." 

I may be wrong but I'm guessing that Poser probably has a larger share of female users (and content creators) than any other 3D application. Are they simply pawns of the overpowering, testosterone fueled hegemony or is it possible that the appeal of thongs and corsetry reaches beyond the posessors of a Y chromosome? Besides, where else outside of Poser and certain high-end DC brothels will you find such a love of alluringly dominant women with edged weapons?

I agree that the available content does not reflect the real world and that is unfortunate but...Poser is largely about fantasy fulfillment IMO, and whether it be male of female fantasy, sensible shoes, granny panties and elastic pants to fit bulging waistlines are seldom part of the picture. Personally, I'd like to see some 1940s-50s era outfits and hairstyles and stockings and garterbelts and panty girdles and bullet bras and oh crap - damn you Y chromosome!

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

This is a sketch of a new character figure I'm currently working on, I hope that the conforming clothing market will embrace him ... or ... it ... and there will be lots of thongs and corsets available.

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No! I want fantasy armour!!! And impractical sci-fi suits!

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Aww come on, who wouldn't want to see a nice sexy ass like this in a thong?  A "thing thong" thong?

My Freebies

Also lookin forward to support for glamorous makeup textures, maybe butterfly eye shadow and glistening lip gloss for this beautiful face:

My Freebies

Lets say M4 and V4 and friends are out for a weekend of leisure time, say at golf course. Try for find a decent Polo styled shirt (izod type) to dress the guys in that is typical wear on a golf course. Even worn as typical casual office dress code. With a left chest pocket. Then a pair of dockers, that you can make the front right pocket bulge like it has a set of keys and or some coins in it. Then the right rear pocket bulge and appear to have a wallet in it. Shorts that the girls would wear that are not skin tight and a similar styled shirt. Same could be worn to a Saturday lunch, a trip to the mall, the grocery store. Tongue in cheek, of course the girls would wear 4 inch spiked heels while golfing.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Sorry, no golf courses allow hard spikes any more.  They would have to use approved soft spikes which do not exceed 1/2 in. in depth.

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@pjz99 HAWT, DO WANT
@SeanMartin I'm tempted to try modelling something for AD BOY myself, but I suck at using most 3d apps.

Do the impossible, see the invisible

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

Touch the untouchable, break the unbreakable

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

"No! I want fantasy armour!!! And impractical sci-fi suits!"

Oh come on. You know you want Barely-There Slutwear for The Most Anticipated Mesh of the Year.  ;-) 

I dunno conniecat. I started feeling like the great glut of garbage became a problem years ago, and has only gotten worse, since. Perhaps as others have suggested, you've become more discerning with time. Despite the frustration that being a discerning customer can sometimes yield, it's ultimately a good thing for your art and for your budget. 

Big applause for the content creators who either provide not-the-usual items, or those who provide the usual, but do it exceptionally well. The ten thousand "I just cranked these ugly textures out for this product that DAZ released three days ago" merchants can go jump in a lake for all I care. Bleh. 

Am I the only one who really detests Daz products for their pricing schemes? Pay for a mesh without morphs, pay for textures, pay for basic morphs, pay for poses, go broke.

Do the impossible, see the invisible

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

Touch the untouchable, break the unbreakable

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

Quote - Am I the only one who really detests Daz products for their pricing schemes? Pay for a mesh without morphs, pay for textures, pay for basic morphs, pay for poses, go broke.

Probably, because even at 'those exorbitant prices' you're really not paying much compared to what it takes to make content.

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Quote - But I gotta tell ya: I still miss the days when DavidHo and DragonGirl frequented this place -- David in particular. There was some truy exciting stuff that pushed Poser right over the edge.

Hey Sean, thanks for mentioning those two artists, very cool looking stuff!

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Quote - The ten thousand "I just cranked these ugly textures out for this product that DAZ released three days ago" merchants can go jump in a lake for all I care. Bleh. 

Yeah, them and keep-the-mesh-as-simple-as-possible-so-it-looks-like-a-tube-sock conforming clothing makers. And those that .... eh, never mind... I'm way too tempted to get into a list of my poser content pet peeves...

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
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Quote - Am I the only one who really detests Daz products for their pricing schemes? Pay for a mesh without morphs, pay for textures, pay for basic morphs, pay for poses, go broke.

It's sorta like a crack dealer getting you hooked.

For the record, I have the Gen4 figures, because in one form or another they were all free (like the complete M4, on a computer mag disk that came out just a scant couple of months after the figure's release -- who was the moron behind that marketing decision??). Like the Gen3 figures, they're busy collecting dust. And that's okay. As I said, I have no real use for them beyond testing for friends of mine. (And HINT HINT: wait till you see what a certain merchant in this very thread has in mind for M4 -- way cool! I'm almost tempted to ask him to make an Ichi1 version of it for me.)

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Yeah quality has go way down lately.
I used to spend silly amounts of money on 3D produucts every months here on Daz and wherever else I found stuff I liked. But lately things have gotten kinda blah, even my used to be favorite creators go to the lets make the same damn texture pack for this new dress thing.
I am a tad bit picky these days for example with skirts, if they completely distort the textures applied when morphing and bending them just the slightest bit I will return them. There are only about 3 creators worth buying from regularly for me these days and the occasional awesome find by someone i did not previously know.

But I agree i got more then enough "woman of loose character" styled clothing then I will ever need and enough fantasy wear to dress every single fantasy character i can ever think of. I got enough similar hairs and texture packs to last me forever, so from now on I only buy things that are unique that I have not seen before in some form.

And then sometimes I open the marketplace/Daz and see texture packs that make me wonder who the hell approved them because I would not even consider using them... if payed handsomly. They look like a texturing attempt by my 7 year old ( yep she on occasion makes textures for her plushie creations and they tend to look better then that). The first thing I always think when seeing such packs is something along the lines of, geeze who photographed scrapbooking paper and made textures out of them, they look... cheap doesn't even describe it yet.

As for Daz and its pricing, well they gotta live from something and I do believe it takes a horrendous amount of work to make a completely new generation of figures.
Some of us like them some don't ( I personally use M3 as much as M4 and V3 isnt gathering dust yet either.) I do prefer the new way of making everything morph expansions because I do like mix and match and dressing diffrent characters in clothing I buy for one basemodel instead of I don't know how many.

In the end we all decide what we want to use and how we use it and the whole fight about what is the better figure and what not is kinda pointless to me as I got some I use more and some I use less but I wont be complaining about that, but quality and good results in renders and or animations is what I really go for and lately I have been quite disappointed.