I am on it I am going to put the objs from what i made on there soon.

Yep, just downloaded the first one.

One of these days, I'll need a translation table between people's Renderosity names and  the email addresses I see over there. :biggrin:

Quote - If no one else volunteers, I might get to rigging some things eventually, because I'd like to get a feeling for how easy or hard it is to make clothes conform to Antonia's rigging.

You should be doing this sooner than later.

You're probably right, pjz99.

By the way, I think I've figured out why Antonia is so much more asymmetric than V2 when loaded into Poser: it's the joint orientations. V2 has all torso parts, collars, shoulders, buttocks and thighs oriented at 0,0,0. For some reason, Poser produces distortions as soon as those orientations are changed, even if no rotations are applied to the actor in questions. Unfortunately, those distortions are not symmetric. I suspect  roundoff errors, possibly due to table lookup, somewhere deep in the deformer computations, but of course I've got no way of verifying that without access to the code.

What I haven't checked yet is whether setting joint orientations to 0,0,0 will also prevent asymmetries in the posed figure. My gut feeling is that that'd probably be too much to expect. But I'll give it a try, and if that's the case, I'll think about changing the base mesh so that those joint orientations can work for Antonia. Another thing that might be worth looking into is whether the deformation is the same for two figures that have the exact same joint parameters. From pjz99's examples it looks as if that's not the case, but that would seem kind of odd. So I'd like to have a closer look at that problem. It's also possible that the distortion is applied twice to a conforming figure, which would explain the effects we saw on the bathing suit.

I'll upload a simple test scene later this week. If someone has Poser 7, standard or pro, it would be good if they could verify that the bug is still present there. I have only up to P6, and filing a bug report against that wouldn't make a lot of sense. Also, if someone could volunteer to do some more testing concerning the points mentioned above, that would be awesome.

When I have the test scene up, I think I'll post some screen shots to Poser Technical, as well. Maybe someone there can bring more light into this phenomenon.

Could you just conform one Antonia to another and see what the result is?  That would let you know if the distortion is applied twice to a conformer?  Just a random idea from the peanut gallery.

That isn't necessarily helpful, because the asymmetrical deformation may not (probably will not imo) behave the same if the bones are not arranged the same, as they would not be the same in a typical conforming clothing item.  Do a real, practical example of a conformer, this is not something that is good to shortcut.

Love the leg band ideas. Maybe adding straps connecting the leg bands to the waist like stocking suspenders and adding a sheath or utility pouch or both onto the thigh bands would be sweet. Actually it would need to be something like that because from designing and trying to create fantasy outfits when I was a photographer, thigh bands that high up do not stay up unaided!  :(
So the suspender straps would look cool, more finished and practical too!

The scifi top/vest you added is nice too.

Quote - and another top this is more of a scifi vest oh I am skanking up antonia

hotdog! I love that vest!!! :)

Quote - That isn't necessarily helpful, because the asymmetrical deformation may not (probably will not imo) behave the same if the bones are not arranged the same, as they would not be the same in a typical conforming clothing item.  Do a real, practical example of a conformer, this is not something that is good to shortcut.

A real, practical example doesn't help us isolate the problem. Conforming a figure to itself - although I would start with a very simple one to see the distortions easier - can give us some crucial information, namely whether the asymmetry accumulates when conforming or whether the asymmetric poke-through we saw is due solely to the differences in rigging.

Of course if and when we come up with a workaround for this particular bug, we'll still have to test that on a realistic example, because software bugs like to travel in packs.

I got a new desk yesterday that I had to put together tonight, and now I'm tired. So no bug demo file upload just yet. Sorry! But you can build a simple test figure yourself: first, make a very simple symmetric mesh. I used an elongated cube with two pyramids attached to the sides. Group it into three parts, say hip, left leg and right leg, again symmetrically.  Create a matching skeleton with three body parts. Now load the original mesh into Poser as a prop together with the figure. Use the left and right cameras together to see both legs at once and zoom in really close (I used a scale of 0.5 for the cameras). Now open the joint editor window and play with the joint orientation while keeping the pose at zero.

You're assuming there will be a pattern that it will be useful to identify with that test, and that's a big assumption.  Although I suppose that, if you're very lucky, an exact duplicate of the character's rig will produce identical deformation (identical asymmetry) in which case clothing riggers can just use the exact same rig and not worry about it - from experience with this bug in other cases though (SP3's foot, notably) you won't be lucky.

Well, I've isolated a bug in Poser's rigging. That might not solve our problem, but it's more than nothing. I'd say the score is Experience: 0 - Systematic Observation: 1.

I'm not trying to discourage you :)  I do hope you've tried to push this with Smith Micro though.  One proper bug fix is worth a dozen workarounds.

You should get BagginsBill to try your test scene in Poser 8,  Even if he can't reveal the results because of the NDA, he could pass the results on to the right person at SM.

as a clothing developer and customiser of figures .. I HATE and abhor when people hide every scale and rotation dial. There are times when I need those to check things or fix issues.  (ditto hiding all the JCMs) So if you absolutely must lock up the pointy parts from people who don't know better, could you please supply an unlock/unhide pose for us poser users.

Lyrra

None of the centers of the middle bones should ever be y or z rotated, that would cause havoc for sure.  The collar centers can easily be set to 0,0,0 and you don't need to change the geometry, just reset the inclusion and exclusion parameters and the mat spheres acordingly, and you're good.

The legs however, there would be problems. The reason being, that poser is unable to use the y rotation of the mat spheres if you also have an x and z rotation on the spheres. The spheres simply spin out of control. So in order to get a simulated y rotation to the spheres, you have to use the center rotation of the joint. There is another way though, and that is to initially z rotate the spheres 90 degrees and use the x rotation of the spheres to get a simulated y rotation to the spheres, but then you lose the benefits of the normal x rotation, but it is not as important as the Y since you can compensate with the shape and curvature of the sphere. I'd have to check but I think Daz used only the Y amd X rotations on the mat spheres for M4's legs, leaving out any Z rotation, thus avoiding the spinning sphere phenomenon.

That's a good discovery, I think you ought to bring that to Smith Micro's attention right away.  I suspect it's a different bug from the asymmetrical deformation problem but in any case it needs to be fixed as well.

Lyrra that un-hide pose you're talking about is pretty simple, at worst I can do something like that pretty easily.

I thought the crazy sphere spinning phenomenon was strictly an interface thing. But I haven't really looked into it in much details, so I might be wrong. I agree with pjz99 that it's probably an unrelated bug.

Anyway, bear in mind that I've only looked at asymmetries on unposed body parts so far. I have simply no idea at this point whether setting the joint orientations to 0,0,0 would solve that problem when the figure is posed. That should be relatively simple to test, though, and I will do it over the weekend. If that's the case, it might be a good idea to set joint rotations to 0,0,0 on new figures for those joints where this wouldn't impose too much of a restriction (such as the collars on Antonia). I wouldn't make it a general rule though, since as pjz99 pointed out, this is really something SM need to fix. Where it is easy to do, on the other hand, it would be quite helpful, particularly because even if the bug gets fixed, people will keep using older Poser versions, and I don't expect SM to backport the fix all the way to P5 or even P4.

Also, I still need to see how this plays out with conforming figures. I had a busy week and I've not been sleeping very well lately, so I'm not getting much done on Poser-related stuff in the evenings.

PS: As for filing bug reports: my most recent Poser is P6 and I'm not going to buy any more current version until P8 comes out. When I get it and the bug is still in there, I'll file a bug report against P8. But I'll report my findings in detail here and in Poser Technical, and anyone is very welcome to reproduce the bug in P7 or Pro and contact SM about it. Please don't discuss this. If you think this issue needs to be addressed with SM right now, don' tell me to do it. Do it yourself.
(Looking very hard at no one in particular. :biggrin:)

Quote - Please don't discuss this. If you think this issue needs to be addressed with SM right now, don' tell me to do it.

Huh.  Well, that was loud and clear.

No discussion!!!! Oh heck!    :laugh:

Sorry if that's harsh. I'm afraid this project will one day die of exhaustion if I'm not strict with my priorities.

Quote - Sorry if that's harsh. I'm afraid this project will one day die of exhaustion if I'm not strict with my priorities.

I agree, Things will never be perfect. Just do the best you can with it and move on. :)

Attached Link: Touchable lingerie [some pages with nudity]

Follow the link to see the source of my inspiration.

Super rjjack! enhances the body shape, while still being tasteful.

I like that outfit!

 Pretty nice stuff!  I like the basic lay out of it.  Is it rigged?

yes, a basic rigg without JCM, just to make the render, don't want to take too much time with the rigging since odf is still working on the setup

and a render without the corset to show the morph, she don't need sillicon or botox to be pretty, just some Poser magnets

Attached Link: Akasha:

If you want to see a full sized image with some "Hot" effects, go to the link I've added. :)

Attached Link: Haute Macabre (may contain traces of nudity)

I took the liberty to add a link to my preferred source of fashion inspiration.

Nice clothes both, the Aksha skirt and accessoires as well as the lingerie. Good work with those magnets - I seem to be too stupid with them, never had any luck to create something halfway beleievable... but the corset-shape you did looks very realistic!!

Thanks, odf, for that link. As Leo is an optican (and pierced) I will have to show him these glasses there so that he can shock his boss and collegues on Tuesday!!

omg I love that black dress odf on the page I wonder if i would be able to make that for antonia hmmm.

Quote - omg I love that black dress odf on the page I wonder if i would be able to make that for antonia hmmm.

Yes You Can  :biggrin:

Quote - omg I love that black dress odf on the page I wonder if i would be able to make that for antonia hmmm.

The open back one by Alexander Wang? Yep, that's pretty awesome.

That whole collection makes me wish I was rich, female and skinny. :biggrin: Or well, at least had a good friend who was.

Great link ODF.
And here is another I found through yours!

http://www.dirtyflaws.com/

I miss photography! Wish I could design Poser clothes. This is the direction I would take the works. I love Gothic and Fetish Fashion and have for a very long time.....long before it was "Politically and Artistically Correct"!  :)

Thanks!

I can't see well from your render but the little jacket/shrug was seperate from the sleeveless dress, can't tell if you did that.. also the top of the sleeves in the back were connected by a thin strap up by the neck.

The general shape is finished, i am adding details, bones and back lacing, i have to change the polygon flow to make the side bones but currently the corset is less than 350 faces, i don't have a lot of vertex to move

the little hat is a 2 minutes modeling fun and will end as a smartprop once finished, i thing now about two feathers and a few cherries for decoration

Love it. But with that size top side she would also need some half bra or partial bra under support on that corset (not sure exactly what it would be called) otherwise she would need to have stretch marks included on body textures or the WIP mesh!   :)

odf
what are you doing with antonia ?
i looked in your store nothing for sell.
sence she is all quads would be good for D/S.

Quote - odf
what are you doing with antonia ?
i looked in your store nothing for sell.
sence she is all quads would be good for D/S.

She's still in alpha stage. At the moment, I'm working on JCMs for the thighs. You better take a chair. I'm very slow. :biggrin:

She'll be free when she's done. She'll have her own website, and I'll submit her to the freestuff here.

I am doing all my morphs on my original Wings3D mesh with around 10k polys, then transfer them to the Poser version, which is subdivided once. So she'll be fully functional in DAZ Studio in the sub-D friendly low-polygon version (well, not quite so low-poly for you if you normally use 3000-5000 ). Unfortunately, because of issues with hard edges, that version won't work properly in Poser. So I might end up distributing three almost identical Poser CR2 files which load the different versions of the geometry: one for D|S using sub-D, and two for Poser or for people who use D|S but don't use sub-D in it.

We have a recliner so no hurrys.
It all sounds very kool and afordable. :)
 

well I plan to keep working on things for antonia. So at least when antonia is done she will have a decent wardrobe with all the things people have been making for.  I currently still have 3 outfits that as for the modeling are still a work in progress fae, priestess, that dress which for now i am call Haute. I am trying to begin to learn grouping a little since I know I will eventually have to just grin and bear it.

If anyone can point me towards any clothing modeling tutorials preferably video please do

I think I'm now very close to being satisfied with the thigh JCMs. This is a bend of 120 degrees, and look how it looks almost completely smooth, even with the low-poly mesh.

Another thing I did is make a morph that simplifies the inner parts of the vulva (as shown). That does not completely neuter her, but make the inner labia go away and smoothes out everything in between the outer labia, making it much easier to control the deformations there when making morphs. I'm thinking about making this the default shape, actually, and adding a number of morphs for different vulva shapes. For most non-pornographic nude renders, I suspect that this level of detail will probably be enough, anyway, particularly with a more realistic texture on her privates. I haven't used SaintFox's texture for this on purpose because of the artifacts it still has in this area (which I'm sure we can fix easily once I'm done messing with the shapes).

 HA! You perv!  You know we likes it! :laugh:

SOmetimes, 3DCGI takes us place we may not got otherwise, but it's ALL in the NAME OF SCIENCE!:lol:  Or something like that.

wolf wolf, think i am in love ;)

in poser when you make a morph can you inclued the bone ?
say u make a morph where she bends her hip to set down.
can u make the bone bend in the morph also ?

odf i swear the definition of insanaty is modeling a female all quads.
What i could model in 8 hours with a few tri's will take me 8 years to convert to all quads.

for got to say
agravating things about V4 defalt pose
mouth is shut in makes it very deficult to morph her lips.
but crack is to close to gather good luc modeling a g string
her forarms are bent so if u try n scale them, err
hopfuly your mesh wount have these

i am trying to make Diamond very content provider freindly

If you use the MorphLoaderPro plugin for DAZ Studio, you don't have to model your morphs starting from the default pose anymore. It's very liberating.

Great bending.I am very excited to see what new P8 rigging can do for Antonia.