What is it with the M4 pants? Every product that I've seen for him so far the pants are WAY too tight. Sorry, I know folks are going to jump down my throat on this one but they look stupid. Take the new biker outfit. If you are going to ride a bike you don't wear pants that are painted on unless you are packing behind someone and you don't have to move. This guy looks like a sausage. Please vendors give him some confortable clothing! The jacket is also way too tight. I ride an HD Heritage. If I rode in clothes that tight I'd never get the bike out of the barn...lol

Oh and I know, before you say it, I'm not buying them and I'm working on doing my own.

IMHO, they are all made for 20 something strutting down a fashion runway.
Certainly NOT for Real people wearing day to day.

Yes, I noticed that.
Why do I think a serious Harely Owner wouldn't be caught dead in those jeans?

Same goes for us womens too....granted if we really wanted to we could throw on a dress/skirt...but where's the baggy hoodie (I'd probably live in mine if clothes didn't need washing) and jeans that don't allow you to count the change in a girls pocket?

Course, I know skmipy/tight fitting = less rigging issues, but yeah, it would be nice to see some clothes for both male and female that were more loose and comfortable.

Guess I know what some of my future projects are going to be. =)

Quote - Same goes for us womens too....granted if we really wanted to we could throw on a dress/skirt...but where's the baggy hoodie (I'd probably live in mine if clothes didn't need washing) and jeans that don't allow you to count the change in a girls pocket?

Course, I know skmipy/tight fitting = less rigging issues, but yeah, it would be nice to see some clothes for both male and female that were more loose and comfortable.

Guess I know what some of my future projects are going to be. =)

Agreed, should be much more Comfortable fitting clothes for both poser sexes.

What is really even worse for Mike 4 are those Chicken Drumstick Thighs.
They make him look like a Freak
And skin tight fitting (painted On) jeans make him even more freakish looking.

One other problem from a dramatic render POV--no hiding items on the person, no hands in pockets, no guns in the waistband, pocket,etc.  The people wearing such are left with the same problem that the Star Trek:TNG people had left with.

What do you do with their hands?

They had to strike dramatic poses when they stood around idle, so when REAL drama happened, they looked stupid. Painted on clothes with super tight fits do that for ALL artists  trying to use the figures. It PRE-straight-jackets the artists into doing a certain kind of pose and art that may not be what they want. Otherwise, the clothes don't fit the scene.

Forget that. I won't use the figure, unless there is clothes that fit the art, much less the figure!

Edit - Joel (I can never spell your name right..sorry) types faster than I do today..... =P

I know. Even if clothing is relatively snug at the thigh, it should be looser after it gets past the knee (this is if we ignore the craptastic invention of women's tapered leg jeans...rivaled only in the depths of fashion hell by bell bottoms, or flare legged pants as they try to call them in today's world).

And as uncomfortable as tight jeans are on women in certain areas, I can't even begin to imagine what it's like for men...and I have a pretty active imagination.

And pockets, where's the pockets? (ok, I'm guilty of this...but my last set of mens clothing were surf trunks...so I didn't see a need to model the actual pockets there...you'd loose your wallet in the ocean that way) Bad enough they generally don't put usefull pockets on actual female clothing when they do at all, but poser men don't get real pockets most of the time either.

Dang, if I didn't have so many other projects waiting to be done right now, I'd model up a proper pair of pants for M4. Moving it up a little higher on the to-do list though. People want slacks or jeans? (different fabric = different cuts = different look...can do both I guess too)

I'm not a pro modeler, but when y tryed to model a pair of pants for dynamics I found the legs too much closed in the zeroed position compared to other figures.

I think an action oriented, heavy denim, pair of 'adventurous' or carpenter pants is what is called for. Not jeans, per se. Pants to work in, stand around on the corner with your hands in your pockets kind of pants. The kind of pants that Bruce WIllis would wear while kicking ass, and trying to find his ringing cellphone in one pocket  kind.

There is a REAL scarcity of "Action" wear for heroic ruffians in today's poserdom. Skin-tight is fine for "Superheroes", but there IS a real reason why real people wear other clothes on actions or dramatic purposes. You need pockets, and warmth. and a certain feeling of freedom of movement to move.

Look how real people move and what they wear, NOT at poser clothes to get ideas.  That leads to an inbreeding of ideas.

I admit, I only own the M4 Base and texture pack so far, so I can't say I have much experience with his clothing yet. But though I have limited experience with his clothing thus far, I would say this problem applies to quite a few different figures.

For example, David. There is very little clothing out there for him. And it's very frustrating, especially when you have a very custom project your working on.

I always want more variety in clothing. Loose and fitting, and different styles of clothing. How about cargo pants, t-shirts that are more fitting, jackets, and things of that nature?

Like all of you, it's not that I'm trying to complain or gripe. I respect the work that goes into making clothing, I'm sure it is a tasking process. Sure, people could make their own clothing (with extensive research), or could find other ways such as painting clothes -- but it would sure be nice to have more options for those times you'd like to use your labor in other areas of your renders. And having more variety of styles would be nice. :)

Just my 2 cents.

--R.

Quote - I think an action oriented, heavy denim, pair of 'adventurous' or carpenter pants is what is called for. Not jeans, per se. Pants to work in, stand around on the corner with your hands in your pockets kind of pants. The kind of pants that Bruce WIllis would wear while kicking ass, and trying to find his ringing cellphone in one pocket  kind.

I agree with you 100% on this idea.
Now all we need to do is convince one of the gifted ones to create a pair of Adventerous Pants.

Quote - I always want more variety in clothing. Loose and fitting, and different styles of clothing. How about cargo pants, t-shirts that are more fitting, jackets, and things of that nature

Poserworld is your place for those, RnR.
Give it a try. Tons of content there, and I have some really cool looking cargo pants for David.
Yes, it's subscription, but it's worth it.
I've never regretted getting the lifetime sub and it has paid for itself ten times over.

Like those:

And where else do you find:

Quote - What is it with the M4 pants? Every product that I've seen for him so far the pants are WAY too tight.

In a very pragmatic sense, they'd be simplest to model and simplest to rig if they're skin tight.  Lazy modeling and rigging, in other words, or from another perspective, quickest to market.

ima70:

Quote - I'm not a pro modeler, but when y tryed to model a pair of pants for dynamics I found the legs too much closed in the zeroed position compared to other figures.

Yep, but that's a problem with pretty much all poser figures period, their zero pose is with the legs nearly touching.  Now that I've learned a bit about character rigging, I don't know why everybody made their jobs so much harder going that way. 

Quote - > Quote - I always want more variety in clothing. Loose and fitting, and different styles of clothing. How about cargo pants, t-shirts that are more fitting, jackets, and things of that nature

Poserworld is your place for those, RnR.
Give it a try. Tons of content there, and I have some really cool looking cargo pants for David.
Yes, it's subscription, but it's worth it.
I've never regretted getting the lifetime sub and it has paid for itself ten times over.

Wow, thank you, Silke! :) I'll have to check into that.

I'm paticularly interested in the hoody and the loose pants for my character.

--R.

Hear hear!
I see a lot of poser clothes that don't look anything like 'real life' clothes of the same type look.

Spandex clothes modeled too far from the skin... loose fitting clothes following body contours (instead their own tailoring)...

EH!

RnR they don't tend to have many morphs in them, except the basic ones, but I converted some to bulkier figures with Wardrobe Wizard and it worked out okay.

Actually, I should get that M4 plugin and try and see if I can get the pants to fit him. :)

Quote - RnR they don't tend to have many morphs in them, except the basic ones, but I converted some to bulkier figures with Wardrobe Wizard and it worked out okay.

Actually, I should get that M4 plugin and try and see if I can get the pants to fit him. :)

Wow, that's a bummer. But I'm glad you figured out how to transfer them. Would I find this "Wardrobe Wizard" at Renderosity or DAZ? I have an old version of something similar, I might should look into it to see if it'll still work. Also do you know, where I can find a hoody like the one you showed?

That sounds like a good idea. :) 

--R.

Find it here:www.philc.net/WardrobeWizard.htm

Best customer service in the known universe,IMO.

Quote - Find it here:www.philc.net/WardrobeWizard.htm

Best customer service in the known universe,IMO.

Thank you very much, Joe!

I have no doubt that his customer service is good, as he's replied to some of my posts and e-mails before and is always really helpful. :)

--R.

The only hoody I've seen is the one on Poserworld (poserworld.com)
Actually this is a good time to subscribe there, since there is a half price sale on yearly and lifetime memberships at the moment.
It's seriously good value for money and you get new content every month, along with unlimited downloads on anything that's there already. (And there is lots)
Currently there are 10 pages (7 items per page) for M3, 3 pages for D3, but several of the items listed on the pages are collections and feature more than one item. (One has 10 items on the sub page, refitted for David) 2 Pages for Hiro, 3 pages for Apollo Max, 16 pages for M1&M2... There is a page full of tutorials as well, textures, poses, props, scenes... you name it.
He supports almost every figure -- and he's working on M4 stuff right now.
Not to mention, Steve Shanks tends to bend over backwards to help where he can.

So yeah, I can thoroughly recommend joining.

And yes, Wardrobe Wizard is on PhilC's site. You can also get it over on Content Paradise.

$80 for a year is pretty steep, was going to join up again but will have to pass.

Quote - $80 for a year is pretty steep, was going to join up again but will have to pass.

Wait for the next sale.
I paid maybe $125 for Life Time Membership

Humm I was a member from the time they started think they would have a special deal for folks who helped them start up.

Quote - The only hoody I've seen is the one on Poserworld (poserworld.com)
Actually this is a good time to subscribe there, since there is a half price sale on yearly and lifetime memberships at the moment.
It's seriously good value for money and you get new content every month, along with unlimited downloads on anything that's there already. (And there is lots)
Currently there are 10 pages (7 items per page) for M3, 3 pages for D3, but several of the items listed on the pages are collections and feature more than one item. (One has 10 items on the sub page, refitted for David) 2 Pages for Hiro, 3 pages for Apollo Max, 16 pages for M1&M2... There is a page full of tutorials as well, textures, poses, props, scenes... you name it.
He supports almost every figure -- and he's working on M4 stuff right now.
Not to mention, Steve Shanks tends to bend over backwards to help where he can.

So yeah, I can thoroughly recommend joining.

And yes, Wardrobe Wizard is on PhilC's site. You can also get it over on Content Paradise.

Thanks again, Silke for your help! :) Sounds like they have a lot of neat stuff. I used to be a member there, but I think my membership needs to be renewed.

Ah, okay cool. Thanks again.

--R.

Marque, there's a 50% deal on atm, which would make the yearly $40, and lifetime $125.
I bit the bullet a couple of years back and bought a lifetime sub -- considering 1 year PC is $99 (if not a member) or $69 if you renew, I think that's really not too steep, considering you pay nothing for the actual models afterward.
PC works out a LOT more expensive.

I just tried to join again and it came up at $80 after the 50% deal so I don't know where you get the $40. I would sign up for $69 for lifetime but don't know where you're getting that figure. Maybe Steve wants to chime in if he's out there.

From http://www.poserworld.com/Home.aspx
3 month $45
6 month $60
12 month $80 (with free DVD)
Lifetime $250 (with free DVD)

Half price for 12 month and lifetime with code PWHALF10

If you're having trouble with the pricing at the store, contact
their support. They were very helpful and timely the last time I
dealt with them. For some reason their order form didn't work
for me, so we went past it. I paid using PayPal and almost
immediately afterwards my account was open.

How do we know they're too tight? Has he complained? In a soprano voice?...;)

Because his package area looks like a V, if he was a female he would have a cameltoe.

I chose the yearly and still came up with $80 in the cart and no place to put the code so no go for me. Thanks anyway for the link.

Did cost me $40 when I signed up last time in March of 2007,  found the old receipt.

Got it figured out and did the lifetime.

Quote - And here we go folks.
Someone had previously predicted that they would have something out over the weekend for Mike4.

Mike 4 Casual-ly casing the place clothes? :P

Having male genetials , I couldn't be casual in that outfit!   In pain and misery,sure.!  I thought it must be a woman's outfit, until I saw the face. I thought,"Oh, an outfit for the eunuchs."

It's bad enough when they do skin-tight clothes, but it's WORSE when the clothes makers forget WHO or WHAT the clothes must cover!  In the REAL world, men have REAL willies. Come ON folks!  Just because the DAZ men figures are not allowed all their body parts on the base figures. doesn't mean everyone should forget they exist. Jeez.

External sexual organs are part of a human male. Get over it. They need a 'Package' morph. Folks, let's all grow up a little.

^^ It wasn't left out due to prudishness, it was just lack of effort.  Like I said, that is the easiest way to model them and with the least effort when rigging them.  Doesn't look right though.

Quote - Having male genetials , I couldn't be casual in that outfit!   In pain and misery,sure.!  I thought it must be a woman's outfit, until I saw the face. I thought,"Oh, an outfit for the eunuchs."

It's bad enough when they do skin-tight clothes, but it's WORSE when the clothes makers forget WHO or WHAT the clothes must cover!  In the REAL world, men have REAL willies. Come ON folks!  Just because the DAZ men figures are not allowed all their body parts on the base figures. doesn't mean everyone should forget they exist. Jeez.

External sexual organs are part of a human male. Get over it. They need a 'Package' morph. Folks, let's all grow up a little.

Quote - ^^ It wasn't left out due to prudishness, it was just lack of effort.  Like I said, that is the easiest way to model them and with the least effort when rigging them.  Doesn't look right though.

This is why I haven't bought any of the M4 clothing so far. And also why I haven't bought much of the other male figures clothing.

Whee :)
Glad you got it sussed, Marque. :)
Well worth it, I think.
Damn.
I should get commission!

LOL
(I am in no way shape or form affiliated over there btw)

i dunno.  first off, tight pants are coming back in style for men, and i'm seeing more and more men in jeans that surprise me.  second off, you still can't really see a bulge in their pants.  last time i saw this this come up, a modeler (i think it was Xena) actually posted images showing that men's packages don't really interrupt the line of clothes, despite what people request. 

even matadors stuff to get their bulges.

More to the point (AND off of men's pointers. LOLOL:lol:) wrinkles, sags, and clothes that "look like real clothes" I think are preferable to the painted on stuff for more figures. Superheroes were 'spandex' or 'latex' because is quicker and easier to do. I know that for a fact. It's been decades, but I've submitted stuff to Marvel Comics and got the riot act from Roy Thomas about comic art and skin tight outfits.

If you are doing stuff for comics, that's fine, but I like having a bite of reality to tie down the more fantastic facets of my art. I can only speak for myself.

That is the point I was trying to make, Joe nailed it. I'm not looking for bulges, I'm looking for wrinkles or folds that show they are comfortable. Same for females.

Quote - That is the point I was trying to make, Joe nailed it. I'm not looking for bulges, I'm looking for wrinkles or folds that show they are comfortable. Same for females.

Exactly

All I have seen lately are Pants that follow every contour and line of the legs.
They do not Fall or Hang.
In fact they all look like Spandex, Tap Pants etc etc etc.........

Quote - > Quote - That is the point I was trying to make, Joe nailed it. I'm not looking for bulges, I'm looking for wrinkles or folds that show they are comfortable. Same for females.

Exactly

All I have seen lately are Pants that follow every contour and line of the legs.
They do not Fall or Hang.
In fact they all look like Spandex, Tap Pants etc etc etc.........

Are we all supposed to Buy Men In Tights?

People just don't seem to know how to make accurate male clothing.

oh, i agree about wrinkles.  though for me, the solution is dynamic clothes.  imho, most modeled wrinkles look as bad as not having any because they don't fit the pose at all.

i think the standards for men are higher (with women's clothes, as long as they're  showing cleavage or form fitting, most people don't care), and that there's a lot less tolerance for skin tight.  i have possibly one pair of conforming pants that will work in anything other than a standing position.  and by work i mean not illicit laughter about balloon pants from my boyfriend when he looks over my shoulder.  and that's using products by the best merchants in the marketplace.

then again, i love the Shadow Dancer top and leg wraps, but i can't bring myself to buy the male version because it's so low detail and without the cool wraps or anything equivalent.  i'm not sure why a guy wouldn't want shin protection that holds a knife, but if necessary, arm wraps would certainly be gender appropriate. 

i guess it just bothers me that after males get pretty detailed contemporary clothes, people still complain, while i know of few or no female equivalents of similar quality for certain products.  for instance, i'm not sure i know where to find one good pair of flats, while i have several sources of good work casual shoes for men and have seen people complain about them.  and i've seen tons of complaints about the shoulders on M3 clothes, while similar vicky clothes had the same problem, but no one seemed to care.