I have included a pic of my Mud shader for Poser7, sorry it is not a poser file, perhaps when i make a basic image and bump map i will add it here too....

Please use the shader as you see fit, so long as you dont sell it on, as it should be free to everyone,my gift to all you poserites :-)

For an example of the shader at work checkout my gallery, (image name "my mud shader") this has had no post work and is a pure P7 render

oh and as you may notice it maps nicely to hair aswell.....so go throw the mud around

enjoy
Shedofjoy

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

damn...it said the file was too big so here goes again....lol...

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Okay I couldnt find it?

er.... couldnt find what????

if your talking about my gallery image its in my gallery.....and is my most recent render.

oh and click on the pic to see the enlarged version of the shader...lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Quote - er.... couldnt find what????

Would be nice to have a download link for this shader (shareCG?).

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There is no download link for the shader as it is the picture 3 posts up. You have to copy the node settings in the picture to make the shader. Then just save it in the material room.

thanks for the info..un fortunately i aint getting the right results from that image!! i guess im doing something wrong :(

might start over!

My Gallery

This is what I got when I made my mud shader. Used textures from cgtextures for the bump and image maps.

Thanks shedofjoy. This will come in handy for the future. Some day I'm going to get out of the setup room and start doing some rendering, and I know next to nothing about shaders, so this helps not only for the shader itself but to help understand how they work.

. 

A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Ok shedofjoy, tried out your mud shader combinations on V3 and I must say that I am rather impressed.  Now I'm going to put you on the spot,  which nodes control splatter intensities, color variations and size of the mud drops?  And exactly what R,G,B combinations were used in your post and suggested combinations for creating custom mud?  I think a small tutorial is in order to help newbie understand the complexity of the nobe interactions in the Material Room.

Quote -   I think a small tutorial is in order to help newbie understand the complexity of the nobe interactions in the Material Room.

I agree! It would be MOST helpful!

ok....looks like i opened up a whole kettle of worms here...lol
Right.... i never tested this on V3, but im guessing some of you have already found this works, as well it should do, as i managed to cover V4 and her hair with pretty good results...
I will have to do a nice little download of the file for you all. i shall post it monday night and warn you all here that its available....

As for textures.... you dont have to use a texture,you can leave that node out (as well as the bump map texture)...and you dont have to use a skin texture, you can use a tartan cloth texture if you wish...lol, this makes it more of a node that allows you to cover everything everywhere with mud....

Now.... for hborre questions, Mud drops are controlled by the Granite_3 node and the clouds node (not numbered).... some of you might notice this as the mud drops appear on in renders not in preview so they are connected to the Displacement node....which brings me neatly to any Newbies out there.... TO GET the most out of this shade you have to have DISPLACEMENT on in the render settings...
Splatter intensity.... phew trying to remember this of the top of my head...lol.... now without going back into poser, play around with the various cloud nodes as these place the splatters in different splats and (A big AND) seperates your texture from mud...
as for the RGB values you can play with them to your hearts content on monday with the shader download that i will make for you all....ok...

Oh and a little tip folks.... im a newbie at the shader room too, i just decided "Thats it im gonna get this to do what i want" and one day and 5 shaders later....one finished mud shader....
so please go easy on me folks....im no Bagginsbill, lol
Oh and believe it or not this shader does sand too, but it needs fine tuning....

Have a good day everyone and thankyou all for your interest, please look back here monday and you shall all have your shader download.

Shedofjoy

Thankyou again all
 

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Thanks for the response.  I'm sure others will be waiting with anticipation towards the Monday release.  This is something worth playing around with; can't wait.  Thanks again.

Oh interestingly, Dont try and get this shader to cover the entire figure with mud.... i had some bad renders...lol... looks like im gonna have to build that one from the ground up too...lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

i played with your shader too, it also looks like chocolate :D
really great, thank you!

I have created a render with a V3 model using your shader nodes with various tweaks and changes.  The results can be seen at the link below:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1809290

I think the results look awesome!  Word of caution, before applying the displacement map to your render, make certain that the display units in General Preferences are set to inches.  The displacement value of 1 seen in the Material Room image post is relatively too high if your display units is set to feet.  Of course, displacement values can be decreased if things look very distorted.

Nice work.

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I'm having a horrible  time trying to connect Blender 2 Input 1 to Blender 3 Input 2 node the way you have it set up in that image. It refuses to connect.

hey still cant get this to work as it does in other renders :(  just wondering what measurement units u use in poser.. that could be why i am having difficulty

My Gallery

Ok, hello again all.

RetroDevil:- my poser is measuring (if that sounds right,lol) in centimeters, as it helps me visualise better...

LostinSpaceman:- do not worry as i will be producing a download of the material on monday (tomorow)

BagginsBill:- thankyou, it means alot when someone of your calibur comments on my work.... sadly my shader lives in the shade (forgive the pun) of your shaders

milanautica and hborre:- excellent work...i hope you found the shader easy to use?

and lastly.... the bugs... yep bugs...
right i thought last night to give the shader a test, without a texture plugged into it, and then i noticed i lost the brownish grey hue in the mud for a more brown chocolate appearance. this causes a few issues where skin meets clothing with no texture, as the mud has now got 2 different shades...(as in the image i have posted). so not im building a more robust "throw everywhere" mud shader that will work anywhere with or without a texture map applied.
If i cannot resolve this by tomorow i will upload the current version as it is now,and then upload the new and improved version tomorow....
Thankyou all for spending you time and patience with me and my work,it is much appreciated.
i hope you all enjoy this
Thanks
Shedofjoy...

now back to another few thousand test shader renders...lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Looks great so far. Will you do a full render of that image so we can see beyond the area render square?

I see what you mean about the two different shades of mud, but I actually prefer the shade that's on the skin, rather than the more reddish chocolate colored mud on her shirt.

@ Lostinspaceman: Actually look closely at the nodes for blender 2 and blender 3, Clouds 3 is feeding both Input_1's.  The blender nodes are not connected to each other.

Blender 2 in clouds 2 adds mud spots outside the main mud mass on the skin texture, where as blender 3 and the texture map are supposed to be seperated by clouds4 but are blended....and there in lies my troubles.....lol... (and no if i remove the bias on clouds4 i dont get the more random nature of splat that i want, so it stays)
And  hborre is correct they are not connected (well only via clouds2 in a roundabout way)

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

oh i almost forgot...
JWFokker :- you may prefer the skin mud to the cloth mud, but that is where the bug lies that im trying to fix, hense the rendered test image and the many i have also done...
The problem is that the cloud node does NOT seperate the texture from the mud and therefore blends the skin to the mud, making a more realistic greyish mud in my gallery render, but this is only because of the skin texture im using, different skin textures by different people create different shades of mud, and that is why the cloth has a different shade of mud, because the muds default shade is more of a chocolate brown, which some have already noticed (and well done to them). im now in the process of stopping the underlying texture from changing the mud colour (which i fixed) but now the problem is my mud is chocolate coloured... no now i must recreate the greyish mud i like, and thats the problem, trust me it's not as easy as it looks....

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Just a thought - shouldn't the underlying material affect the color of the mud to some degree? Obviously, where the mud is sufficiently thick, no light would reflect back through and the color would not change, but areas that are smeared or just very thin would look different. Perhaps not to the degree that the current shader is exhibiting, but it could be something you might want to integrate into your shader in the future. At the edges of the mud it could be useful.

yes indeed this is true, the smeared mud does show some of the underlying texture below, thats ok, the problem is the base colour, as in the skin texture is influencing all of the mud, in my tests i did a pink top and sadly i got pinkish brown mud, not just the smears but the lot.... wasnt nice.... so im still playing...lol

oh and i wouldnt be typing here if it wasnt for the fact that my Poser has just thrown a wobbler and frozen on me after a render test,,,,,grrrrr.... time for bed i think...lol

i will do a full test render for you tomorow....

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

I love this. You guys are starting to peel the onion and getting into more sophisticated effects.

You really should be posting in the Node Cult with this one. There are quite a few interesting issues embedded in this problem. Also, just glancing around, I see things I'm curious about. For example, there's a Glossy node on the bottom right with a Sharpness = -1. I know everybody thinks I'm an expert but I confess I don't know what effect that would have.

So tell us, did you do that on purpose, or accident. And what effect are you getting with a negative sharpness? Because I thought I knew what Glossy sharpness was and I'm pretty familiar with it's values from 0 to 1, but I never imagined using a negative number here.

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lol.... unlike you Bagginsbill sadly im a newbie with tendency to play around, i have had a few dabbles with shaders but this one comes from just toying with the material room.....lol
i know that most people like to stick to the norm, but there in is where i differ, ok i suppose the glossy sharpness should stick in the positive, but it seams to work well with this in the negative...lol...
er, node cult????? is that here???? should i move this thread? would people like me ever see nodes like this if it was there???? (sorry too many questions and i should have gone to bed)
i keep meaning to learn what all these nodes do, and to try that matmatic thing that people are talking about, but does it only rely on maths? if so im out, as maths is not my strong point, lol....
But rest assured i will still keep peeling at this onion and many more to come...
Er  and Bagginsbill, to 99.999% of us you are an expert, hell you make me look like a twit with a stick...lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Now that BB is on board, things are really going to get interesting.  As a matter of information, I actually threw this node combination into a VSS prop for easier application to all body parts.  I, also, switched to Miki 2 for testing purposes.  Currently using the Bandida skin texture which only has 2 body parts.  Shedofjoy, you may want to pay a little attention to the bump values while testing.  I have been using a 1 IBL, 1 infinity, and 1 spot light system for my renders and I am seeing artifacts in some crease areas of the skin texture.  A heavy application of mud would not reveal the anomolies because they are hidden.  But when you ease the mud application quite a bit, they begin to show up.  I remedied the issue by decreasing the bump value.  Currently, PoserPro is set to a Display unit = feet.  When I get a chance, I will reset it to centimeters and retry your values to see if I still detect it.  You have done an awesome job.  And keep up the good work.

Thankyou for this, what a great shader, just tried to copy your settings & got reasonable results, look forward to your shader though, I assume you'll use a "proxy" image for the texture image node to avoid the Poser nightmare that occurs with missing textures.  

Attached Link: My website

**hborre,** i think the problem you had was in your poser settings as using feet with my shader will probably produce over exadurated bumps.... i will wait to see what you come up with with the centimeter setting that i use....

OK FOLKS... NOW THE TIME YOU HAVE WAITED FOR...
i have uploaded the shader (which ment a re-write of my website) it will show shortly in the freestuff here at Rosity...
but whilst you are waiting ive added a link to this post so you can download it now....
I have re-named the nodes (image texture) to "Your texture map" and "your bump map" and they have images already plugged into them, just add your own there, or not, depending on what effect you want.....ie you dont need them plugged in....ok

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Thanks, Peter!

Ah....that must be why my image with Vicky turned out looking like a porcupine! Shoulda made a render....looked really weird!

Love the look of your website, too! ;)

weeeee, thanks again shedofjoy! ___
gotta play now ------------------------ :)

Thank you very much.  Picked up the shader this evening and will do a test drive with it.  And yes, I agree with you, it might just be the display unit factor.  Thanks again.  Will keep you posted.

Attached Link: Study in Mud

I just finished an image using your version, Peter, and it turned out very nice! I've posted it in my gallery. There's nudity, so I flagged it, just in case.

Hello again all..... now for some good news..... i had a spot of inspiration this morning and shazem.... a more complex Version 2 mud shader.... i will post it on my website shortly (follow the link on my previous post)
i have added a quicky render to show what it did...

1st fixed the difference between smears of mud and clumps....
2nd the base texture or colour does not effect the clumps of mud anymore...
and 3rd'ly the mud is the same no matter where it goes so its the same across V4 and her clothes and the floor and her hair....

right im hoping the image will appear in this post, if not it will be in the next one...lol... (and what is the maximum file size for pics in the forum????)lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

and now another try,.... bloody file limit...lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

i will put mud shader v2 for download 2moro...sorry about that but sadly i have to go back to work after 2weeks off... bummer...lol...

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

I just gave it a quick test run and it looks great!

The image looks excellent.  Can't wait to get my hands on the second version.  thanks.

 Now we just need a mud wrestling pit for the girls and a few beers to drink while we stand back and watch

:b_grin:

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

I might be doing things the hard way...but do you have to manually apply the material to every mat area on the figure and then reselect the textures that were "underneath"?

Also, does this preclude the use of any skin shaders? Is there some way to easily combine the two?

Unfortunately, you will have to apply the shaders to each part of your model.  The only easy way would be to use BB's VSS prop.  It is the best convenient approach.  I might look closely at intergrating with skin shaders, time permitting, unless BB, himself, steps in and shares some of his knowledge.

Quote - I might be doing things the hard way...but do you have to manually apply the material to every mat area on the figure and then reselect the textures that were "underneath"?

Also, does this preclude the use of any skin shaders? Is there some way to easily combine the two?

You could Right click on the PoserSurface tab>select all Right click again>apply to all, then use a mat pose to restore eyes to normal, then go through and reselect skin textures for each part.. Or Right click>select all>copy and paste to similar regions, V4 & M4 they're numbered. If you are using skin shaders rather than texture maps you might try copying and pasting those into this material and wiring them into the shader in place of the "your texture here" image map.

Applying this shader to each part, while preserving the color and bump map files that are already on each part, is EXACTLY what VSS is for.

After you post mud shader version 2, I'll see if I can integrate it with my skin shader to give you a one-click application for any figure, using VSS.

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Told you BB would come through!

Quote - Told you BB would come through!

Indeed, thanks to BB for his help here and for the interesting evening I just spent following up some of his other material node advice from other threads. Will give VSS a try as soon as I get my machine back from it's rendering tasks, noticing the clock, make that will give it a go tomorrow

Here's a Before/After comparison. (Click to enlarge)

Image 1: VSS 2 prop with VSS 3 mat file applied, full scene gamma correction and saturation boost from Bagginsbill's Artistic Lens

Image 2: Mud shader, no VSS, full scene gamma correction and saturation boost from Bagginsbill's Artistic Lens

I ended the rendering process early because the hair and dynamic fur were taking forever (a few hours) because I accidentally set the Render Settings too high. You might notice that the hair and stomach are considerably less grainy in the second image, probably because I set the irradiance caching, pixel samples and render dimensions way up for a small test render and forgot to change them back. The resulting image was 1280x2133 at near max quality. It's VERY sharp, but actually looks worse in some ways because the skin did not have Bagginsbill's VSS applied to it.

I didn't apply the mud shader to the gun because it had WAY too many parts to apply it to (about as many as V4 and the other props combined). It looks like I missed applying a texture to the shorts in the first image though. Also, I may not have applied the mud shader to the hair correctly, because I can't hardly see it. It may have to do with my copying of a transparency node from the original mat settings because the mud shader removed it. I figured it was important to keep it, but it may not do what I think it does.

And as I should have known (had I given it any thought), the mud shader is completely obscured on the boots by the dynamic fur. So different footwear will need to be used in renders where mud is required.

Here's a full resolution section of the second image (click to enlarge). It looks like there's either no displacement going on with the mud, or it *very* low. It may have to do with my using centimeters as the default unit of measurement in Poser. I'm not sure. I also didn't put anything in the Bump texture spot of the mud shader, but I didn't delete the node either, which may or may not be the correct thing to do. Hopefully someone can clarify this for me.

 JWFokker, if you don't want to change your display units, you'll need to multiply the bump &  displacement values by 2.54 (1inch = 2.54cm) Bump doesn't change the geometry like displacement does, but it will add shadows to it to make the mud appear more prominent

It would be interesting to see your nodes scheme for this render.

Attached Link: http://www.shedofjoy.com

JWFocker :- i use centimeters as my units of measurement and i dont see why the displacement is not showing up, unless you have not applied "use diplacements" in the render settings? try altering the diplacement by a factor of 10 and doing a test render.

Ok people im not going to do you a material for all the material zones on every figure... jeese i did the shader do some ground work yourself...lol...

MY MUD SHADER VERSION2  IS NOW READY FOR YOU ALL.... just pop over to my website...

please tell me what you think of the mud colours now (as im thinking some of the mud splats are a bit too grey, see what you think, perhaps im wrong....)

oh and you DONT have to plug a texture node into the shader and if you want to change the diffuse colour of the texture just change the sky texture in both the nodes that your skin texture is plugged into...
oh... and i tried Hyperreal with blackhearted GND4 then plugged the resulting clump of nodes into where the texture goes on the mud shader..... and it works nicely... so considering i have yet to see BagginsBills VSS skin shader im not sure where it plugs into to know if this would work the same.....

now depending on bugs.... etc...lol im gonna try wood shaders...(started off a whole kettle of worms now)

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Shedofjoy wrote "i use centimeters as my units of measurement" 

oops, sorry Shed, think I must have BB's bold type stencilled on my mind from playing with his shaders last night.

LOL yea I'm always telling everybody "MY UNITS ARE INCHES, PEOPLE". It's a common problem when copying shaders from screen shots.

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hmm Perhaps i should change to inches???? or release 2 versions of the shaders...lol
Surely in Poser 8 they will create a universal scale of measurement for the shaders so that it knows when someone is using different measurement units and adjusts accordingly...

I now have a question, being that im a newbie...
How do you scale in the x,y,z co-ordinates of the nodes if it isnt in the node (ie the wood node)??
and secondly if i want to rotate the node how do i do that????

Thankyou to anyone who answers this...

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Oh and BagginsBill where is this Node cult, as im quite interested -(as long as i dont have to draw a pentagram on the floor and throw chicken carcasses at relatives i dont mind joining)

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Quote - hmm Perhaps i should change to inches???? or release 2 versions of the shaders...lol
Surely in Poser 8 they will create a universal scale of measurement for the shaders so that it knows when someone is using different measurement units and adjusts accordingly...

I now have a question, being that im a newbie...
How do you scale in the x,y,z co-ordinates of the nodes if it isnt in the node (ie the wood node)??
and secondly if i want to rotate the node how do i do that????

Thankyou to anyone who answers this...

Poser display units do not change the material file. Regardless of how you type in a bump or displacement, or how you have it displayed on your material room screen shot, it is actually stored in the file in inches. I have verified this in all versions of Poser.

I only have to scream about inches when I show a node setup as a screen shot and people are trying to reproduce my setup. When you share a material file, not a screen shot, the information is universal and will be correct for everybody.

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Attached Link: RDNA's Node Cult

> Quote - ...where is this Node cult, as im quite interested -(as long as i dont have to draw a pentagram on the floor and throw chicken carcasses at relatives i dont mind joining)

The Node Cult is at Runtime DNA (see attached link).....
...and no chicken carcasses required.

<-insert words of wisdom here->

Quote - How do you scale in the x,y,z co-ordinates of the nodes if it isnt in the node (ie the wood node)??
and secondly if i want to rotate the node how do i do that????

Thankyou to anyone who answers this...

Nodes that have a single "Scale" parameter, such as the Wood node, cannot be adjusted to produce unequal scale independently for X, Y, and Z.

Only the nodes that have Scale_X, etc. can be adjust to stretch the pattern.

Simulating wood textures is a really interesting topic. I have a lot to tell you about this. But we should not do so in this thread.

And, also, I'm sure you want to experiment yourself, so unless you tell me otherwise, I will not come right out and tell you how to do it well. However, I'll give you lots of hints if you like. Or, if you want to see how I do things, I'll show you where to look.

There are 5 key aspects to think about for the wood. Ignore any and you will fail to achieve wood nirvana.

1. What coordinate system should be used to drive the wood grain pattern? Model XYZ? Global XYZ? UV? Related question - when you scale or stretch a prop, what should happen to the wood grain?
2. What is the actual grain pattern? How do you ensure that you capture the nature of the different kinds of wood in a generic way? Look closely at oak, cherry, maple to start. How are they different or the same?
3. How do you correlate bump with the grain?
   4) For stained or painted wood, how do you take that into account?
   5) For finished wood, how do you handle the finish? Satin, semi-gloss, and gloss all behave differently.

Finally, let me give you this clue:

The Poser Wood node is useless for wood.

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Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Comparison between shader V1 and V2 (click to enlarge).

It turns out that the hair has seven or eight different mat areas and I only applied the mud shader to one of them, which is why it didn't show up in my first renders.

Also, I think the reason why the mud displacement map didn't show up in the test render is that I lowered the contrast to counteract the lack of VSS to match the skin tone a little better, but that made the texture of the mud less visible.

Regardless, I much prefer the way V2 looks.

Bagginsbill :-any help at all is much appreciated, i will also be playing around with the nodes, and i have already come to the conclusion that the wood node is useless, i think its only there to fool the new commers to the material, therefore i have learned my first lesson in wood...lol

JWFokker:- love the renders, what hair is that? that you are using...

anyways i have to set this machine to a virus scan...lol... somthing i havent done in 3 years....lol..

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Helios Hair

Thanks JWFokker... will have to get that one, can say the promos when i first saw it made me think maybe not, but your renders show it off alot better....

oh my virus scan was all clear, lol... no surprise there... now i have to do a back up but i will wait until i have an entire day spare...lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Well I loaded your mud v2 and boy that's a lotta nodes. Trying to figure out how to integrate it with my skin shader, it looked pretty difficult. So I took it apart and put it back together.

The original shader was hard to understand - a lot of stuff in there was cobbled together in strange ways. I understand you "grew" it, so it's to be expected that it was a little wierd. I even found a section of it that wasn't doing anything, because you had it plugged into an input that was black, which meant the section was multiplied with 0, resulting in no impact on the results.

I reduced it to six nodes with nearly identical results.

Then I integrated the mud pattern into my skin shader, including proper gamma correction and conservation of energy. Then I added some more realistic wetness by including accurate Fresnel reflection. That made it a lot better.

I messed around with color and bump - I think I went too far on the bump in my experiment. When doing this sort of shader, you really need to do closeup renders and full-body renders all the time. I was only doing full body and didn't notice some problems had crept in until I did a closeup. So I'm not publishing my version yet.

But I thought you guys would like to see where I'm at.

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Mid distance shot. Click for full size.

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Head close-up. Click for full size.

Notice the puffiness of the eyelid and ears. I have too much displacement going. (Ignore the glowing teeth - forgot to load a newer tooth shader. That's an old buggy one I have there.)

Look closely at the edge of the head and shoulders. See the reflection of the sky? That makes it look more real.

I'll keep working on it. When it's done, I'll post the VSS template shader for you guys to download - those who are using VSS will find this a lot easier to apply.

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Looks good so far. The specular lighting looks especially good. Is it possible to integrate the smeared mud look of shedofjoy's mud shader so that there's a transition between the freckle-ish brown spots and the chunky globules?

Something more like this and less like Arnold hiding from the Predator?

BB, that shader is really coming along.  It looks fantastic.  Interested in seeing the final product.

How's this?

I added a few parameters so you can vary the coverage, the clumpy versus runny look, and get more smears. Basically, you control the bias and gain on the key Clouds node. Unfortunately, the parameters are not very intuitive. You have to play with them and when you modify one, another needs adjusting. I'll see if I can re-arrange a few terms to make them more understandable.

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Looks excellent. I assume that changing it from wet to dry is as simple as adjusting the Reflection Value? This could be useful as a general dirt shader as well as mud.

 JWFokker, until I saw the logo in the corner, i thought you'd managed to incorporate something of this
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2709503
another Shader from guess who, then clicked a magic add hyper-realism button!

Just discovering that VSS brings us closer to that though, thanks again BB, those images look excellent by the way. With regrard to the thickening of ears and eyelids, I'm wondering if using the grouping tool to create new mat zones would be an option as it would be a shame to loose the density of mud on other areas.

Slightly OT but here's a link to a daft game I played with animating displacement a while ago
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lby7pMbNhg

i like what you have done Bagginsbill and i would like to see the how you reduced the shader to 6 nodes.
I have no idea how you add fresnel or accurate fresnel, but im sure i will pick it up along the way...lol...

JWFokker:- i think for version 3 i will do a (from the ground up) new mud shader that looks like that image you posted...very nice...(now im gonna have to scour the internet for a larger pic so i know whats going on....

Oh and on the wood front... i dumped the wood nodes and made quite a nice looking effect, but still i enter the You can change the scale in the way you want or rotate how you would like, or apply to only one facing direction.....i hope they make the shader room a little more friendly in the next poser incarnation...lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Shedofjoy, I just downloaded version 2, eager to give it a try. It's been fascinating sitting here watching how you guys work these things through - more imprtant, seeing the effort and expertise that goes into it. I've always had a deep appreciation for those who make these items and then give them away - you (they) are what makes this hobby so much fun. Having the technical ability of a fruit fly, I cannot return the favors, but I'm visualizing all your hopes and dreams coming true.

Thankyou **shorterbus** for your kind comments, but im just on the learning curve...lol...

Anyways i had a little inspiration concerning Version 3 of the mud shader and so about half hour ago i tested it out.... instead of getting JWFokkers effect that i was aiming for i got a dirty looking V4.....and all with 3 nodes (which i hope hold the key to the mystrious version 3 shader....
here are a few test renders... click to enlarge....
i will check back later when i have been to work again....damn employment...lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

and a closer one

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

I'm on the edge of my seat, awaiting Version 3.

I think you may have stumbled on making dirty shaders.  That could be useful and practical.

wow, version 3 looks awesome.. like dusty!!! more than muddy but i really like that effect.. in the words of veruca salt... "i want it now"

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sorry about the delay, damned work,lol..
i will try to post something tomorow... maybe even a download of this new lite dirt shader. so watch this space.
anyway thats my lunch break over with, back to work for another 6 hours...grrrr

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Hey, better than the other alternative.

Quote - Hey, better than the other alternative.

True, but as its my last hour of the week here, I notice that the clock seems to start running slower and slower

Hi guys.
 
Shedofjoy, your dry dirty look is great. As you've found, that's a pretty easy thing to do - basically a clouds node and no trickery needed for specular or bump.

I'm still working on the thicker, caked-on mud aspect. I simplified the pattern generator even further. I now have only two clouds nodes, instead of the 3 clouds and one granite I was using earlier. One generates simultaneously the overall distribution of puddles and droplets as well  as the bump pattern for the puddles. The other generates the droplets.

Among all the nodes, the ray-traced are obviously the most expensive, and then the second tier of hard-to-calculate are the nodes based on noise, such as clouds, fractal_sum, etc. So minimizing how many of these there are is a good thing.

In general, if you can somehow trade a noise node for up to 30 math nodes, you've improved performance. So I'm using more math nodes.

The other thing I'm working on is an effective dial for wet versus dry. I've got one dial (Mud Dry) that alters a whole bunch of factors for this. When the mud is wet (Mud Dry = 0), then you get lots of reflection, lots more discrete splatter droplets, and less bumpiness to the puddles. When the mud is dry (Mud Dry = 1), you get no reflection, and all the splatter droplets become dusty smudges, and the puddles get more bumpy.

I like the idea of this dial very much. When you pick a mud color, that is the color of the mud when it is wet. As you increase the dry value, this color is automatically changed the same way real dirt changes color as it dries. Well, I'm trying anyway. This is one of those areas where guessing the right algorithm is hard, and then fine-tuning the factors is even harder.

I'm thinking about adding cracks in the mud when its dry. Haven't done that yet, but I expect it would add to the realism.

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Here are some WIP renders.

This is wet.

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75% dry

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and completely dry

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sadly i got rid of the clouds node as i found it had a few short commings and wasn't versatile enough.... i replaced them (in a way) with the fbm node...

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Curious - what were the shortcomings?

I like fBm, and I especially like Fractal_Sum (that's my 99% goto node).

However, in this shader I want the user to be able to adjust the scale of both noise effects using a single dial. That means I have to plug a node into both scale inputs, so the user edits that one number. This works fine with Clouds.

With the other types of noise nodes, where there are independent X, Y, and Z scale parameters, you would think you could do the same. But, alas, Poser behaves differently for those nodes. I don't know why.

Here's what it does. Each of those parameters defines the rate at which the pattern evolves in that direction. For example if X_Scale is 1 versus .5, the pattern evolves across the model coordinates space twice as rapidly with the .5 as with the 1. Basically, the input to the noise pattern lookup is X / X_Scale.

However, as soon as you plug any sort of node into one of those scale inputs, the internal use of the model X coordinate is dropped. Instead, the value plugged in is used, then DIVIDED by the scale parameter numeric value. This is totally different than other node parameters.

For almost any node numeric parameter, there is a number and a socket. In general, the value produced by the socket is 1 if nothing is plugged in. The input parameter value (pv) is multiplied with the socket value (sv) so that the effective value is pv * sv. Whatever the underlying function is (f), then the effect produced is f(pv * sv). With me so far?

But with the 3-d noise nodes, it is f(1/pv) if nothing is plugged in, and it is sv/pv (no f used) if something is plugged in.

I don't know if this is making sense to you all, but it's very important. The bottom line is that you cannot get the functions to continue to work if you plug in any node at all.

Knowing this is how they work, I have actually taken advantage of this at times. Consider the fBm node. It evolves the pattern according to fBm(mx/X_Scale, my/Y_Scale, mz/Z_Scale), where mx, my, mz represent model coordinates of the point being rendered. (Model coordinates are those coordinates of the original imported model, not the world coordinates of the prop after it is translated, rotated, and scaled.) Well, what if I want the pattern to evolve according to U and V coordinates, not model coordinates? Simple - I plug in U and V into X_Scale and Y_Scale, and I plug a 0 or some other constant into Z_Scale. This let's me define noise patterns in 2-D UV space instead of 3-D model space. 

If I were designing the nodes, I would not have done this. I would have provided 2-D and 3-D versions of all the noise nodes, not 3-D versions that change their internal logic when you plug in a node.

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Red paint. Same shader. I added more control parameters. There are gravity effects, where droplets hang down from surfaces. Unfortunately, this makes the bottom of the upper eyelid extend downward.

I think the use of a control mask is going to be needed for this shader. Like a transmap, it will control where the affect is applied.

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I've added translucence. It is based on the displacement. Where the puddles are thin, it is more transparent. Not perfect yet - I'm trying to get to an oily look.

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Increasing the index of refraction and the translucence is closer to oil. Still not there yet. Could be the color is off - I'm trying to get the look of motor oil.

Vegetable oil is so translucent, that a thin layer of it has no color that I can see.

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Hmmm. What a surprise. After a couple more parameter tweaks, I get water droplets!

I've been trying to make a shader do this for years. In this mud shader, I had two effects - puddles and splatter droplets. The splatter is the same as I've used before trying to get water droplets on skin. But I could never get them to look right.

The difference now is that instead of using a simple Edge_Blend for the amount of reflection, I'm actually using the Fresnel equations that exactly describe how reflections vary with viewing angle. I used to think that the approximations I've always used were good enough. But they're not. You have to use exactly the real physics, or it doesn't come off right.

 

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Quote - Red paint. Same shader. I added more control parameters. There are gravity effects, where droplets hang down from surfaces. Unfortunately, this makes the bottom of the upper eyelid extend downward.

I think the use of a control mask is going to be needed for this shader. Like a transmap, it will control where the affect is applied.

I was wondering when the mud might turn to blood! With regard to the eye, although there is some distortion, I Ithink its fairly realistic, gloop like that would run and accumate on the lashes, that is after all what they are for.

Shedofjoy, thanks again for the shader I just used it in a render challenge over at Daz, but it wouldn't add anything to the discussion here so I won't clutter up the thread when there are so many more interesting developments

BB, did you hear that thud? I'll just reach down and pick up my jaw 

Heheh - put your jaw back - I'm not done apparently.

As usual, I'm right back where I'm always at. From a distance it looks good, and even up close any surface pointed right at the camera is good. But the edge surfaces are a mess.

Sigh.

If Poser had the ability to do a double surface shader, I could get this right in a heartbeat. I have perfect water shaders. I have near-perfect skin shaders. But to try to get a single surface to pretend to be skin with water over it seems impossible. If I could just tell Poser to automatically clone the skin geometry, keeping the skin shader on the original, and putting the water droplet shader on the clone (with refraction) I'd be all set.

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I'll tell you another problem - this shader stands at 118 nodes right now, and I removed the AO stuff temporarily. There are so many effects that are expensive in it. The sum total of these makes renders take a loooong time.

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I think the only way to do anything remotely like that would be to use two instances of the figure and conform one to the other, then hide the bits you don't need, eyes, teeth etc. Basically using a character as a body suit. P7 does at least make that easier to do with the duplicate feature. Not very elegant and heavy on render times.  Other than that I can only suggest calling in help from the Python wizards 

Sorry for not being able to add anything of note here. But I hafta comment on:

Quote - Heheh - put your jaw back - I'm not done apparently.

As usual, I'm right back where I'm always at.

Bagginsbill, your work effing amazes me.
(My jaw remains dropped!)  ;)
And thank you, shedofjoy, for your incredible offering and this thread!

Well, I just hope you decide to release the mud/paint/oil shader with VSS. That alone would be incredibly useful, even if it's not fully capable of doing water droplets.

Oil would be fantastic.

118 nodes! Full respect to you understanding what's goimng on in there, I got the wooly hat on the inside feeling as  I tried to follow Shedofjoy's original post 

Impressive mr Bagginsbill, it's nice to know i helped in making you look a different way at making water droplets (even if it was by accident,lol)
I hope you make some of the failings apparent to smith micro on the failings of the nodes...
as i too have come across the failure of there not being 2 surfaces when you want a water droplet on the skin using diplacement etc, and it would be nice as an inclusion in Poser 8 maybe....
i will keep checking back here, and i may get in some more testing on sunday, but sadly tomorow i have another 14 hour shift at work, so yet again it gets in the way of poser...lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

shedofjoy, you've gone way overboard on this work thing. You need to get your priotities straight

lol @ Shorterbus , i agree totally. but now the weekend has arrived i can get back to what i love,
i will be putting in some serious poser time on monday, tomorow is family day... so all have a good sunday and see you back here for more mud

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Enjoy your weekend, I'm sure we'll be back with our buckets as soon as your ready to sling some more mud 

 Shoot I was hoping for a Harry Mudd Shader too!

For those of you not as old as the dirt used in shedofjoy's shader like me, Harry was a character in an episode of original Star Trek Show.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Quote - lol @ Shorterbus , i agree totally. but now the weekend has arrived i can get back to what i love,
i will be putting in some serious poser time on monday, tomorow is family day... so all have a good sunday and see you back here for more mud

So it's been about three months. Did you make any further progress on the mud shader?

bookmarked

I have one more version of the mud shader, currently im working on some clothes for GND4, will post last version mud shader in the next couple of weeks

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

i must ay the shaders that BB posted here are amazing. but so many nodes? dear lord.

BB - Was your mud shader for VSS ever published?

I've just looked through the thread and couldn't see a link.

That VSS was never published by BB, it has remained a trade secret.

I must be the most awesome person in the world at getting distracted. I completely forgot about this effort.

I don't even know where the shader is anymore. I'll try to find it and get over my dislike for publishing with flaws - probably most people will want it even with the parts I am not happy with.

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my mud shader is still on my web site under poser 7 stuff. i still keep on meaning to post my hair shader node setup, but that will have to wait whilst i juggle one 8month old and another due in april.... ohh the poopy nappies, and i suppose i could convert the shader to a poopy nappy shader,lol

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

@Shedofjoy: Um  ... I'll stick to the mud, if that's ok :-)

@BB: That would be so cool if you could. Doesn't matter if it's not a VSS version either as I can do that bit myself, and besides I want to put some mud on elephants rather than a Vicky!

@ BagginsBill - How about a figure with a bodysuit?  Aiko3, for example, has a bodysuit which covers head, hands and feet also.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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(BM)

Quote - @ BagginsBill - How about a figure with a bodysuit?  Aiko3, for example, has a bodysuit which covers head, hands and feet also.

So cloth+mud instead of skin+mud? Or metal + mud? Or car paint + mud? All these are possible. I've arranged the mud shader as a layered matmatic sub-shader that can be stacked on others. Since Poser shaders don't offer layering, it's kind of tricky to combine two materials in one shader - but that's what has to be done.

For now, I'm combining with my skin shader.

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I literally have a few wrinkles to work out. I have a problem where the little splatters cause bump without coloring. These bumps are tiny - on the order of 1/200th of an inch. But when they catch the light just so, they look wrong. Click for full size and look at the arms.

Sigh.

I really can't bring myself to post the shader until it's right.

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Chalky.

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Bah - have to force myself to let go. This is still a WIP, but I figure what the heck. Try it.

When saving the attached file, remove the .txt at the end of the filename. Place anywhere in a materials folder.

It is VSS ready. Load it into the control prop Template Skin. When you synchronize, VSS will populate the maps. If not using VSS, just fill in the maps as you need. All maps are optional. Be sure to enable ray tracing and displacement in render settings. And have some stuff to reflect like a sky.

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Hmm - tried ten times to upload. Failed. I'll try again tomorrow.

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I was referring to your earlier post about double surface shaders and copying the skin geometry.  The bodysuit seems the most likely contender.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Finally got it uploaded.

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Yay! A muddy heffalump!

Couldn't work out how to extract the 'mud' from the VSS skin shader in order to make my own VSS shader, so just applied it as it came.

Anyway, now I just need to find a nice mudbath for him.

I'm looking for a dirty skin shader, not so much mud caked.  What I'm after is more along the lines of what **shedofjoy** showed in one of his posts earlier in this thread, in these 2 images or like in this linked image.

 

http://www.worldofstock.com/stock_photos/PWO10319.php

 

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

And his close up.

More of a sooty-dusty look than having been in a roll around mud fight.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Try this one :or some variations of it.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Sorry, an error in the math functions :-(

This is better

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!