I wish to have all your opinions on this one. Recently a new artist who is a friend and is trying to grow at Renderosity had recieved a refusal of one of her products. Please be with me with this and have the patiance to read carefully the exchanges of mails.

Bob Stuyck wrote:

It has been brought to my attention that you have written this mail to one of the vendors in this comunity whom I sponsor.

<removed by JenX>


This annoys me very much and more than that is deeply dissapointing. Befor
continuing I advise you to take a look in my account "bobstuyck" and you
shall see that over the past few months I have spent Thousands of $ so as
for you to know from whom this letter is from. As I can see from your
response to this artist of which I have viewed pics of the product she would
like to post you are telling her that the product is not a seller. From that
I conclude that you are there just for making money and that you are NOT
interested in taking the effort to help new artists. You have come up with
the idea of Renderosity and the place is yours to do as you wish. But we the
Clients or sponsors and artists have made it possible for you to be who you
are. If you can afford to lose sponsors like me then good for you. But there
are more than just me. I have many friends there who would do the same. We
are the comunity. And the pillars of your kingdom could be crumbling apart.
You come up with such ridiculous nonesence about what is art or not. Nudity
is one of them. Nudity is part of art. Yet you allow nudity for your top
vendors and the others not. You also do not allow artists to post unless
they have sold a minimum required by you. It shows that you are there just
to make money ( which indeed is your right) but we are in ART and if you do
not allow new artists to thrive because of the interests of YOUR pockes then
you do not deserve to have sponsors like me to encourage those artists. Art
is a matter of taste and I do not see how a couple of people can decide what
is good or not for thousands and even more. I am an Autocad designer and
Poser is a hobby for me. I buy what I like and mostly from new artists to
encourage them. From what you can see in my account I have also bought many
gifts to help others achieve what they are working on. I enjoy doing this
because I love Poser and am in admiration seeing the beauty that comes from
it.I do not expect a reply from you. Instead, take that time and reevaluate
your protocols and ideals. And if I was you I would start looking up to
people and not down. You should be praising the comunity and not for you to
think it is the other way around.

Yours Truly
Bob

So she brushes me off like dandruff yet in the month of January To encourage all my friends and so on 
this is what I have accumalated in January only. Just to show. 
<span class="bcs_buyer_reward_spending_notice">Current Month Spending: $1,086.80 (reward minimum met)</span>
<span class="bcs_buyer_reward_minimum_notice">$100.00 minimum amount to spend to receive buyer reward of 5% <br></br><br></br>Very Glad to finally meet you GOD, Concerning your response GOD now I truly see the nature of your face and I see<br></br>that you have absolutely no understanding of the Trinity since I am only a third party but yet I sponsor so many<br></br>artists here while you fatten up your pockets. My best Regards Admin (GOD)and hope and wish you luck for the year <br></br>2009. Belive me You will need it !!!  Yours Truly just the Third Party <br></br></span>

Contact Daz Art Zone, or Digital Designs Unlimited. Both have accepted products of Vendors that Renderosity has turned down.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Hence "We do not discuss individual cases with third parties, but I thank you for your detailed feedback."

Personally I feel this is between the powers that be at Renderosity and the vendor.
The vendor may want to do as Acadia suggested and look to another venue.
Maybe more dialog between the two parties is needed but an open post to the forums
will not change any minds I feel.

My Facebook Page

It isn't the case to turn to DDU, artzone etc.
What Bob is saying that'Renderosity decides what we (customers) could buy.
There are a lot of diifferent people with their own needs and tastes regarding (poser) products.
And I can understand his opinion in this matter, as I feel the same.
Who is renderosity to decide what we (customers) like?
That's the odd thing in this case, renderosity never asked me what I like and want to see in the store. So how could they make a decision like that? Based om what standards??
I am very curious.

personally i would see the rejection as an opportunity to improve the product so that it is a product the marketplace would want to sell.

would of been a better idea to ask some of the top vendors, like rebelmommy and thorne and the likes, how much of their stuff has been rejected over the years, and what they did to improve said product, and get it in the marketplace, maybe get some info too about what seems to sell well for them and what does not.

that way you get the feedback on how to be a successful vendor, and you don't break the rules by posting private E-mails to the forums.

The sad part is, one vendor will be told this, yet you will see more products showing up with exactly what they said they had too many of from their top vendors.

:)

Well, a few points to consider:

-- If Rosity is saying they're over-saturated with V4 products, that suggests that there's so many that none are really selling all that well. Even in the digital realm, there's only so much shelf space.

-- Yes, Rosity decides what goes in their store. That's true of every store out there, both digital and real. If you cant find what you want in one, you go to another.

-- If the wannaba-merchant has a Paypal account, why not offer it for private sale and keep all the cash instead of having to take a cut?

Yes, Rosity gets the traffic, probably even more than DAZ. But look what it's resulted in, guys: a glut of stuff that, to be blunt, starts to look alike after a while. Sorry, but I'm going with the PTB on this one. Their sandbox. Their rules.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

And this is different from the releases of V1,2, and 3 exactly how?...;) There's always a glut for the latest 'hot' character. Still, if they don't want the merchandise from a given vendor, there's no rule that they have to take it. And there's other sites out there.

Maybe if you release a small sample as a freebie here, then post the whole set on a site that will host the merchandise, you might get both advertisement here, and sales there.

it's a crazy world...

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

>> "And this is different from the releases of V1,2, and 3 exactly how?"

Not only has the number of users increased but so have the number of merchants -- exponentially, I would imagine. And everyone wants to ride that V4 train, particularly in a tough economy which makes everyone want to try and sell something.

But what I also find somewhat worrisome is that the OP feels that Rosity should accept it because s/he's spent so much money here.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Please refrain from posting private sitemails without the other party's explicit consent to the forum. It is a violation of the TOS.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

No, not true, I am the buyer and I am buying to help these artists grow yet RO is putting sticks in the wheels of these people. But keep this thread in mind cause when this discussion will get going a bit further I will then show you the real reason why her product was put off.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=67872&vendor=49864

As for the claim that Nudity is allowed for top artists, but not everyone else, that's bogus. Nudity is allowed, but not on the main page. If you wish to show a nude portion of the product, it must be done in the additional 3 slots allotted to the vendor when they upload the product.

For instance, here is a link to my own product here in the MP. Yes, it's for v4. It's been out since October. Anyway, My front page doesn't show nudity, but, toward the bottom, you'll see a little thumbnail.

That thumbnail leads to the full-body preview image that shows the skin. In order to get that thumbnail, I have to make sure to select the content advisory for my product, meaning that there will be nudity in one of the 3 extra images.

I don't know if that's the case with this product, but, as you've already been told, we don't, and have never, discussed anything about a member's account with a third party, so we're not going to start now.

Jeni

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Sorry, but I do not agree with the original poster or many of the other people on here.

Even an art gallery, that exists to display art, has the right to refuse, and does so, any art it does not think is up to standard, or not in it's clients style, pocket or perceived taste.

Just because something is art doesn't guarantee it a right to be displayed or made available.

All art galleries, 3D websites, or any other place that sells art is still a business, and it's interests are to survive, make money, pay it's costs, and gain a larger market. Whatever that institution thinks will get it these goals are up to that institution to decide, not on the artists who would like to display their art there.

Do yourself a favour and make an artowrk, go down to your local art gallery/art shop, and demand that they display your artwork for sale there, and see what kind of a response you get.

Helgard

Your specialist military, sci-fi, historical and real world site.

Well, this is Renderosity's site, store, server and bandwidth we're talking about. They reserve the right to refuse anyone anything. At least, that should be the way their policies read.

As far as the product in question, I did see it listed on another site. I looked at it. I believe I was looking at the correct product.

Here's some constructive criticism. I mean this is the best spirit possible in regards to supporting an artist in a competitive market.

What can I say? It's "another character." I'm not trying to be harsh but you have to look at it from the point of view of a marketer and, more importantly, a consumer. What about this is unique? What does this package offer that can not be obtained in other packages? The only thing unique appears to be some tattoos, if I'm looking at the right product. The rest of it is "Someone else has already done it" type of material. That's not always a bad thing. Some users might like having several variations on a very similar theme. But, does this give even rabid fans of this type of character anything unique? Is there anything here even they would want? Are there any morphs that aren't dialspins? Unique textures? Hair? Clothing? Accessories? The only thing unique offered are some tattoos, maybe the ear morphs (depending on how they were done) lights (which are a dime a dozen unless you're talking about IBL/HDRI/Gels or very, very high quality arrangements etc.) and expressions (which may or may not be unique). )Makeup, base texture, etc doesn't seem very "unique" for this product.

It may be the culmination of years of active learning and experience. It may be the pinnacle of an artist's achievements. But, if it isn't unique, doesn't offer something of value over and above what is already available in the market, nobody is going to buy it. They'll look at it and say "That's neat" and click on down the line of "What's new."

My suggestions, in general, would be this:

1) Mesh is king. Whether it is a totally original mesh or a hand-done morph that isn't a dialspin, Mesh is king, always. With that in mind, anything that is a unique mesh or contains one increases the overall value. If it is something other than a mesh or a morph that is done by hand without relying on dialspins, then it must offer something unique or be of the best recognizable quality possible. I used "recognizable" in that statement because it may actually be the best thing since sliced bread but if nobody can tell that from the presentation of the advertisement, they won't "recognize" it as such. But, it's worth repeating: Mesh is king. If it isn't mesh, then it had best demonstratably stand out amongst the legions of competing products in its category. (Textures, dialspins, lights, expressions, poses, materials, etc..)

Textures are great. But, at some point, there's a saturation limit where they no longer offer added value in a package. Fifteen bajillion textures lend no more value to a package than three extra ones do. (IMO) This applies to everything, characters ESPECIALLY. You can use one texture at a time on one model at a time. (for most practical purposes) After that, textures become sort of redundant and you end up with two textures that are actually used and a runtime full of stuff that never gets loaded, ever.

3) Added "bonuses" should really be bonuses or they're not worth mentioning as such. That means unless they too have something very unique and desirable above and beyond what is offered, they're just part of the package. A toothbrush that has listed a bonus of "Free Bristles Attached" isn't really saying anything.

4) Nothing in the presentation of the product at the market it is located seems to have much to say about the quality of the product other than the text describing it as a quality product. I'm a stickler for renders, lit meshes and highlights of special features. If the render is bad, the product is bad and that is regardless of what people have to say about "Let them see the default render in default lighting." Sure, include that. But, I want to see the bestest thing with the mostest bang for my buck I could get out of using this product. (within reason and without cheating with unincluded special IBLs, shaders, etc..) Otherwise, what is being said is "This is the worst this product will ever look." I want to see the best it will ever look along with it's best features. That's what sells products, IMO.

I am truly sorry your friend's product was not accepted. I wouldn't mind selling some products on Renderosity myself one day. So, I can sympathize. But, me just posting "Gee, that's too bad. I'm sorry their experience was a bad one." doesn't do the Artist any good, does it? What I have said may anger someone but, it's the truth as I see it. I would rather have them angry at some perceived insult from me and actively selling products they create because they acted on what I said rather than them not selling anything at all.

Quote - >> "And this is different from the releases of V1,2, and 3 exactly how?"

Not only has the number of users increased but so have the number of merchants -- exponentially, I would imagine. And everyone wants to ride that V4 train, particularly in a tough economy which makes everyone want to try and sell something.

Absolutely. I agree completely. In a market where competition is increasing, you must do what the competitors are not and that must have a greater perceived value. (In truth, it doesn't have to actually have more value. It just must be "perceived" as having more.)

Quote - But what I also find somewhat worrisome is that the OP feels that Rosity should accept it because s/he's spent so much money here.

/agree

Unless, of course, the member is offering a check made payable today for a thousand dollars as a promotion fee to Renderosity. If so, they may want to consider such an offer...

Interesting.

What I definitely DON"T like is the attitude of "I spend a lot of money here, so I say what goes and what doesn't".
There's nothing wrong with suggesting something in the Marketplace Wishing Well forum - anyone can do that, regardless of spending habits. But there's definitely something wrong with trying to dictate to the store staff what to put in the store.

Maybe the store staff did make a wrong decision. That can happen, they're only human after all. But they'll have to sort that out with the vendor in question.

JenX, could you remove the name of the vendor from the original post? I feel that this thread does not reflect well on the vendor in question, even if he/she has nothing to do with this.

There's nothing wrong with supporting vendors, on the contrary. But we should do that the right way, or else it may backfire.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery My freestuff

Morkonan: applause! You said it better than I ever could.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery My freestuff

That's a good suggestion, svdl. I've done so.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - Morkonan: applause! You said it better than I ever could.

Thanks. :) But, I bet you could have said it with less words. I'm dreadfully verbose at times. heh heh

I'm entirely in agreement with Helgard's post. Rendo is a business, and it has to make money to survive. Whether this was the right decision or not is only relevant in the context of the business. If they feel the product won't sell, then it's their right to decide not to include it in the marketplace.

As for whether it's right for Rendo to decide what we can or cannot buy, that happens all over. Amazon doesn't stock certain books because they can't come to a mutually satisfactory agreement with the book publisher. Too bad for the author (or potential purchaser), but that's life. Rendo and Amazon are not public services. Every other store does the same thing. If you can't buy something there it's because they've taken a conscious decision not to stock it. Why is Rendo any different?

Steve

There are dozens of stores on the web selling poser stuff, if rendo doesnt want it for whatever reason try elsewhere. If you dont know any other stores drop me a pm and I will give you a list.

Just wanna say i thought when i became a member here that this was a art community with a store for the artist to sell there own made stuff .
It looks to me now that renderosity is become only a shop to sell for some top vendors and
forgotten the artist .
By saying this i don't want to attack the top vendors over here .

But what I also find somewhat worrisome is that the OP feels that Rosity should accept it because s/he's spent so much money here. ( **SeanMartin )

**I can understand your opinion in this but this is not what Bob says .
He is showing you som fact's that he is suppoting a group of artist by spending his money
over here at RO .

Perhaps RO should go back to there basic and support every member artist and not only
the ones who are top selling.

>> " It looks to me now that renderosity is become only a shop to sell for some top vendors"

Seriously, have you looked at how many vendors there are here? We're talkin' in the hundreds.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

The Marketplace is just that, a Marketplace. It is a storefront. Renderosity, and every other Poserverse storefront, at the moment is FLOODED with samey-same V4 characters. The response that the MP testers and admins give is that, at the moment, they just don't see it selling the way the market is right now. Between a flood of the same old thing and the economy the way it is, you can't just expect everything to go in. Even top sellers get things turned away. I know. I used to be a tester, and I did it all the time.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I stopped trying to sell here. Too many hoops to jump thru.

MacBook Pro OSX El Capitan Ver 10.11.6

Quote - Just wanna say i thought when i became a member here that this was a art community with a store for the artist to sell there own made stuff .
It looks to me now that renderosity is become only a shop to sell for some top vendors and
forgotten the artist .

Perhaps RO should go back to there basic and support every member artist and not only
the ones who are top selling.

Bollucks!! i have enjoyed 7 years of passive income from my marketplace products
and never once made the top 100 vendors list. and I have had products REJECTED before .
you understanding of the renderosity marketplace is problematic at best.

My website

YouTube Channel

My opinion...selling 3d content is the low end of the CG world. Tell your friend to develop a demo reel and look for a job. Video gaming is the current trend.

This is super-basic economics.

The purpose of a retail sales outlet is to add value to the raw products,
so they can sell more units and sell for a higher price.

A store selects things to suit its own taste or theme, works with the supplier
to improve or reshape the product, and advertises. Walmart does those
things, Renderosity does those things.

If you want to sell without this added value, you can run your own website.
Direct sales is much easier with digital products than it would be with, say, vegetables
or automobiles!

My python page
My ShareCG freebies

I wish the quality control aspect of product submission would focus on redundancy as well as quality.

For example, how many mini-skirts do we need for one character? There are so many clothing items for V4, for example, that could've been done with transmaps for existing clothing.

This would probably be hard to do, since the marketplace does not have a good search feature and the categories are broad. How would the testers even know how many skirts there are when a search for "V4 Skirt" turns up 10,000 results 80% of which have nothing to do with V4 or skirts?

Sigh.

Quote

Bollucks!! i have enjoyed 7 years of passive income from my marketplace products
and never once made the top 100 vendors list. and I have had products REJECTED before .
you understanding of the renderosity marketplace is problematic at best.

Its not my understanding of the renderosity marketplace tru .
But when i log in here at renderosity i see "its in the logo also" renderosity
art community and no renderosity 3d shop or market place .
I can understand that renderosity need money to stay alive but is this an art comminity or
or has renderosity become a marketplace only which aim is to make big profit .

The thing is, frankly, this is the third artist I have heard from personally who has told me they are "Not wanted at renderosity" for their characters...
Yet at the same time we have other artists who put up several items per week, or two or three characters a month.

To me it looks like the RMP Staff are picking favorites - or established sellers with high prices and high margins - over newcomers and merchants with less-expensive products, in part to protect those favorites.

Not that this isn't a standard business practice - how many books get denied for being too much like Glenn Cook's or Stephen King's - while the books of those two authors go directly into expensive hardcover editions first?

That being said. the rejection to the prospective merchant must be crushing - especially if their product is as good as others' products already in the marketplace. And while Renderosity is not the only marketplace for Poser, it is one of the two most prominent and prestigious.

Still, this 'picking of the already popular' may be why R'osity is getting fewer and fewer of my poser dollars, as I go elsewhere to follow MY favorite creators, rather than THEIRS.

Ok, I'm going to step in here.
Now, currently, the only thing I have to do with the MP here is that I have one product in it. Other than that, I have nothing to do with anything that goes in or their policies.

That being said...

How do you think Renderosity would be able to pay for the server space, bandwidth, even the electricity to run this site right now without the MP? The Poser gallery alone exceeds 50 uploads a day. The forum is bustling. Not to mention the fact that Renderosity is housed in a building, where rent needs to be paid, and employees at their physical site are paid. The aim isn't to make a profit. The aim is to keep Renderosity from going out of business.

You don't like that your product wasn't accepted here or was clearanced out? There are no rules saying that you can't also sell elsewhere. There are also no rules ANYWHERE stating that just because you made a purchase, Renderosity has to also, in turn, accept your products. Try taking that argument to DAZ. RDNA. 3DArena. (Those are the only places where, I, personally, am aware of QA policies...feel free to add more to the list, since there are MP's I haven't even heard of out there) I've had SEVERAL products rejected at DAZ. I know many folk who sell here who are top sellers have had their products rejected elsewhere. And I know many quality sellers who aren't in the top sellers list.

Welcome to the real world, where in order for a store to take your stuff, they have to want it.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - The thing is, frankly, this is the third artist I have heard from personally who has told me they are "Not wanted at renderosity" for their characters...
Yet at the same time we have other artists who put up several items per week, or two or three characters a month.

To me it looks like the RMP Staff are picking favorites - or established sellers with high prices and high margins - over newcomers and merchants with less-expensive products, in part to protect those favorites.

Not that this isn't a standard business practice - how many books get denied for being too much like Glenn Cook's or Stephen King's - while the books of those two authors go directly into expensive hardcover editions first?

That being said. the rejection to the prospective merchant must be crushing - especially if their product is as good as others' products already in the marketplace. And while Renderosity is not the only marketplace for Poser, it is one of the two most prominent and prestigious.

Still, this 'picking of the already popular' may be why R'osity is getting fewer and fewer of my poser dollars, as I go elsewhere to follow MY favorite creators, rather than THEIRS.

I'm sorry, but I've heard this argument too many times for it to be true all the time. I've seen several people who say that they've been denied at Rendo and that their product is just as good as XYZ in the MP...and then look at it...and I can tell which Merchant Resource they used, right off the bat. They didn't even bother to change anything. The makeups are all out of one resource kit, and they all look the exact same as what's in the package. The purpose of Merchant Resource kits are a base, not to be the whole product. And that's exactly what I tell them when they ask my opinion. Not everyone likes to be told that their product is not worth the MP, but, seriously, if Merchant Resource kits are listed, and no photography packs are (Levius, Skinjob, etc.), I pass it over. And so do most buyers.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - I can understand that renderosity need money to stay alive but is this an art comminity or
or has renderosity become a marketplace only which aim is to make big profit .

Renderosity is owned by Bondware, which is a profit-making organisation and therefore it seems reasonable to expect that rendo will also have to return a profit - not just cover its costs. So rendo is in fact a business which as part of its added-value to build up its customer base also offers such facilities as forums, galleries, etc. But it's still a business.

Whether it started out that way I don't know - haven't been here long enough - but now it's a profit-making business. The community aspect is emphasised to attract new customers and keep them here in the hope that they'll buy something. Which they do.

Steve

I have one single set for sale, at DAZ, part of a collaboration package.
My first commercial item ever. It got accepted very quickly. Why? Simple. Catering to the mood in the market (well, one of my business did that. His business acumen is far greater than mine). High quality, and not submitting until I was pretty sure the item was meeting or exceeding quality standards.
QA found only a few little things that I had overlooked, and those were quickly fixed. In fact, they told me that the package was unusually well made for something entering the first testing rounds.

THAT's what gets your items in a store. High quality, originality and uniqueness.
Not only did my stuff get into the DAZ store, the pack it is a part of did rather well too. It ended up being one of the 2008 top sellers at DAZ. Not bad for a newbie merchant, eh?

I'll be making more commercial items. I'll do my best to make them as original as possible, to make them as high quality as I can, and they won't be submitted anywhere until I'm pretty sure there are no flaws left.
I fully expect that a QA team will find things that I overlooked.
I fully expect that a package might be rejected for commercial reasons. So what? I'll just shelve it until the market for that kind of item is better.

Want to make a nice buck as a merchant? Then you just have to work for it. Make things that customers want. Make things that others do not make. And most of all, make high quality stuff.

I'm a customer too. And I only buy things that I can't make myself AND that I can use over and over again.
If there was more strand-based hair at the store, I'd buy.
If there were more high-quality environment sets at the store, I'd buy.
But the umpteenth V4 dial-spun character with a standard skin texture map, and 20 flood-filled lip and nail colors? No thanks, I'll pass.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery My freestuff

OK.. hm.

Rosity IS playing favourites IMO. The whole Top Merchant thing is their favourites. Do I like it? No. Doi I accept it? Yes. Do I want to be a top merchant myself? OF COURSE - but it's not likely with the kind of products I make. I'm not catering for the boobie crowd and I'm not making skimpy outfits for the Vicki of the Week.

OTOH that is probably why my products so far has been accepted without problems.

So what I'm saying is, like several has already said here - BE UNIQUE. You may not make a super seller - but there are things that has hit the roof here where I wouldn't have thought it would sell at all, so what do I know? After all my bestselling item is a dirty loo...

Another thing is.. what Spedler said. OF COURSE Rosity, and Bondwar is aiming to make a profit. It's not an altruistic organization. I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to get and accept. They're kind enough to keep their forum here for us to play in, but they didn't HAVE TO! NOR did they have to make a gallery here for us to upload terabyte after terabyte of pictures in. I'm happy that they DO. And if they need a marketplace to fund this, then so be it.

Mm.. and then.. I can't help speculating if parlevliet is someone's sockpuppet. Member since 2003 and both posts ever made in this thread?! I know some are lurkers more than posters.. but... oh well... Not my business I guess.

Quote - Ok, I'm going to step in here.
Now, currently, the only thing I have to do with the MP here is that I have one product in it. Other than that, I have nothing to do with anything that goes in or their policies.

That being said...

How do you think Renderosity would be able to pay for the server space, bandwidth, even the electricity to run this site right now without the MP? The Poser gallery alone exceeds 50 uploads a day. The forum is bustling. Not to mention the fact that Renderosity is housed in a building, where rent needs to be paid, and employees at their physical site are paid. The aim isn't to make a profit. The aim is to keep Renderosity from going out of business.

I alluded to that in my post but would like to expand upon it. Just my two coppers...

Renderosity DOES want to provide a venue for artists to sell their wares. HOWEVER, what exactly do they have to do in order to provide that "service" for vendors? They have to host the products, they have to pay for the bandwidth that a store browser may use up clicking on that product's link, they have to be able to support that product, they have to set it up in the marketplace and they may even have to set up a new vendor account, get that squared away, verify the info, etc... All of that is before the product even sells one copy. For all of that, they then must make enough off of sales to justify those expenses and still have some left over for operations and, gasp, a little bit of profit if they can fit it in.

Of course, there's also the fact that once it is in the store, it's going to sit around like luggage for however long Rendo's policy is on hosting products. So, everytime they accept a product it's a "hundred year child" in a sense. Rendo's runtime is constantly bloated and they're going to be forced to keep it online just in hope that it will sell a few copies and pay for itself. Otherwise, it's an opportunity cost they'll never recoup.

Quote - Welcome to the real world, where in order for a store to take your stuff, they have to want it.

I saw the product. I'm not sure if you did or not. It's pretty obvious why it was not desired. The "resources used" list was almost as long as the contents list. There were 32 line item entries in Third party packages used in the creation of the product.

I can play "Paper Dollie" too. But, as you suggested, I am not sure how many times Renderosity is going to want to sell repacks of other Artist's work.

Quote - OK.. hm.

Rosity IS playing favourites IMO. The whole Top Merchant thing is their favourites. Do I like it? No. Doi I accept it? Yes. Do I want to be a top merchant myself? OF COURSE - but it's not likely with the kind of products I make. I'm not catering for the boobie crowd and I'm not making skimpy outfits for the Vicki of the Week.

OTOH that is probably why my products so far has been accepted without problems.

Exactly so. In regards to "Favorites" I would agree but with a condition:
In business, you naturally pay attention to proven performers and are a little bit hesitant when it comes to "something new." Of course, any port is suitable in a storm and if you're desperate or sufficiently motivated, you may turn to finding a new supplier or new vendor. But, proven producers are valuable and, in this case, the customers recognize the Artist's names and associate them with, usually, good experiences. An artist's name WILL sell a product by itself. For instance, I have no hesitation about purchasing an Aery Soul product, if I needed one. The same goes with most of the top sellers. (There are some I would hesitate on simply because I feel they're a bit overhyped and quality is mostly implied, not realized.) For what it's worth, considering what I have of your really neat freebies, I'd not hesitate to buy one of your products as well should I need it. I have no worries about quality because I have a prior good experience. :)

Quote - So what I'm saying is, like several has already said here - BE UNIQUE. You may not make a super seller - but there are things that has hit the roof here where I wouldn't have thought it would sell at all, so what do I know? After all my bestselling item is a dirty loo...

ROFL Really? Well, I've seen it and I thought it was excellent work. But, I have no need for it so didn't buy it. However, you're absolutely right! Be unique! You have managed to corner the market on dirty loos... If there is ever a rush on them, you're in a great position! :) (You've obeyed the primary rule - Be unique! That's nothing to be snickered at in a highly competitive market!)

I have had my share of refusals but after the initial throwing the mouse at the wall and the keyboard at the dog. I decide which way to go with it there are a few choices.

First I consider why it was rejected. Are they valid reasons? a lot of the time they are in which case it might be worth spending some more time on it and trying again.

If I feel that I have spent too much time on it already I will probably try some where else. Its worth pointing out that although the broker may be a business most Vendors are a business in their own right as well. Maybe just a hobby/business but a business non the less, in this case I try else where especially If I don't see any advantage to selling an item at a particular store. Some have high intitial sales and low residuals, I find Rendo has steady residual sales which in many respects is more important than a lot of sales for a month and then the odd few.

Lastly if I realise I really have made a mess of it then I will shelve the item and call it tuition fees.

In any event I always try and take away something positive if not for that item for future items and hopefully improve my skills. It would not do if the brokers just took everything because the buyer would soon become frustrated with low quality products. There was a time when some products were so bad It was almost entertaining. Thankfully that is rarely the case now.

My suggestion to the new vendor is first and formost enjoy what you do. You are very unlikely to make a living out of it, very few do. Secondly be realistic as much as it hurts we don't always get it right. Thirdly use the rejection positively if not for that item for you future products. And lastly remember keyboards and mice are cheap monitors and vet bills are not ;)

Well, when the shit hits the fan, a loo - dirty or not - might come in handy...

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery My freestuff

I feel very sorry for the Vendor who's product was rejected..
The one thing I hope for sure is that the critics were well substantiated so this vendor will be able to make changes on the product so it would sell for sure in MP.

I personnally think some Vendors get a preferential treatment for sure.
I don't like the idea, but for RO... whether it sells well or not, it's your playground.

Most of the time I'm getting so bored with all the same textures offered on every piece off clothing you can find over here, but......made by a favorit Vendor.
And it gets on and on...... it even sells, time after time.......buyers prove they want it.
It's up to me to decide whether I'd buy it or not.
I'm also not happy with all the poses, V4-chars, animals, lightings and badlooking clothes that are being offered in MP by the big Vendors as well as by the newbies. For sure I look for something I think is special in my Runtime and not unimportant, which I can afford.

Why not a forum of potential buyers so they can vote for a product to end up in MP, let's say 1 product every week (which was rejected before)? Ofcourse, it's RO's store, RO's decisions....but why not? I would love having that opportunity.

BTW we all have our reasons to comment on a thread, why such a sneer to people who comment only once in a while, or even for the first time? We all decide when, where and how we will participate by ourselves.

I hope the rejected Vendor will keep the spirit up and will make new items to sell!

Grtz Emmy

Merchant resource kits are cheats!

They are actually pretty useful, if you use them for what they're intended. A starting point, not an end product. I use them to show me where little bits and bobs on a texture map should go, rather than pulling a texture map from a product I've purchased. I do that for 2 reasons; 1. to learn, and 2. to keep me out of copyright trouble should the need arise to question where I got what. I've had some photo resource packs that I've purchased that are missing one thing or another (some of them don't include elbows or have the nipple or genitals covered), I've used a resource kit to fill in the blanks. That's just what I do, so, YMMV.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - Merchant resource kits are cheats!

I agree and disagree with that.

Use properly, they're excellent tools at helping an artist express themselves or create a really interesting and unique product. But, if they're used as a crutch, they're a serious detriment and say virtually nothing about the producer's artistic merit and lend little to no unique value whatsoever to the product.

Changing a contrast setting is NOT creating "ART" our of a resource kit or adding significant value or uniqueness to it when used in another product. The general idea I have on the subject is that if just "anyone" could take a Merchant Resource kit that I used and then easily do the same thing I did with it then I am doing something wrong and shouldn't expect anyone to buy my product. (If I actually had something for sale, that is.)

Everyone should remember that when they are producing items, what they are trying to do is to give people new tools to express themselves and play with. Sometimes, those tools can have artistic merit all by themselves. Yet, they are NOT creating Art that people are supposed to worship and hang on their wall. They're creating new and unique tools for OTHER people to use in their OWN artistic expressions. Of course, there's the whole "Play" value as well. If it's fun to play with ... like a huge howitzerblowuptank with ginormous treads piloted by giant sharks with lazers on their heads OMGZ! ... then, that's cool too. :) After all, Poser is sometimes like Legos or Erector Sets for Adults - you don't care about "Art" you just want to have some fun!

Creating your own original figures is the way to go!

BTW Anyone want to see a really fast way to texture? Faster than merchant resource kits and you don't have to worry about seams.

Merchant resource kits are the one thing I'd love to see Renderosity and Daz ban (along with anything made from them). Every texture sold here and at Daz should be required to be created from photos the merchants took themselves. THAT would help to ensure quality and a uniqueness to each texture set that would make it worth being placed for sale.

With the low cost of good digital cameras today, there's no excuse not to raise the standards.

It looks that my question is answered renderosity is not a art community but a
marketplace.
Do i have a problem with that no.
I never said that they are not to make profit.
Yes i can understand that its not an altruistic organization i never said it was.
But they call them selve an art community but perhaps iam wrong at this point ?
And yes its nice that they provide us with a forum and gallery i never said it wasn't.
But its verry odd that one vendor hears that the market place is fed up with V4
characters and when you push the whats new button you see new V4 characters.
How can you know if a product is selling or not if you don't bring it out on the
marketplace ?
And yes you can not sell everything but you can be honest to the vendor why you
don't want it on the marketplace.

TrekkieGrrrl

Mm.. and then.. I can't help speculating if parlevliet is someone's sockpuppet. Member since 2003 and both posts ever made in this thread?! I know some are lurkers more than posters.. but... oh well... Not my business I guess.

You can say that again "Not my business" and you don't have to guess that .
There are more members here that never respons at the forum until somthing
is discussed that's interest them and iam certain that they don't wanna be called
sockpuppet.
Reading your respons it seems you have a lack of words or you don't like people to join
this forum becaus they never did before but thats up to you perhaps thats your mentality ?

*Merchant resource kits are the one thing I'd love to see Renderosity and Daz ban (along with anything made from them). Every texture sold here and at Daz should be required to be created from photos the merchants took themselves. THAT would help to ensure quality and a uniqueness to each texture set that would make it worth being placed for sale.

With the low cost of good digital cameras today, there's no excuse not to raise the standards.*

I agree, although I have seen some hand painted textures that rivaled photos.

Renderosity isn't the community. It's members make the community, not the site.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Renderosity isn't the community. It's members make the community, not the site.

You're right on!

Now...the rejection issue. If you are going to work in the 3d field or art in general get used to it. Specially if you start bidding work.

If you're going to work in a creative capacity, period, get used to rejection. I've been pitching my paintings to art galleries for 10 years. I just got one piece accepted to a "starving artists" showing, which will be next month. You take what you can get.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Congratulations Jen!

I hope people realize, rejection can be a good thing. It builds character and will put hair on your chest.

Patorak me! I wanna see that! Pleaaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeee.

Thanks.

"The Blood is the life!"

Go here and download Lightwave 9.6 demo http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/benefits.php

Then go here and check this out. http://www.ten24.info/oldman/tutorial.htm

I've never been one to buy the usual stuff -- I took V3 out once, put it back, took M3 out maybe twice, put it back -- and V4 and M4 both are long gathering dust in my archive. So I'm probably not the best to gauge such things. Nevertheless, as biased as it might sound, I agree that a potential merchant should go for uniqueness, something sadly lacking in all of the markets these days. Now, yes, there are notable exceptions: AntFarm at DAZ is about the only PA I'll buy from there now because his stuff is so wonderfully warped and yet useful. I found a merchant here (Teknology3D? I think that's right) who has a full range of things for the Gumdrop series, and I couldnt snap those up fast enough.

Thing is, I'm not unique in that respect. There are several users whose Poser life doesnt revolve around the Showgirl and her various iterations. And the merchant who notices us quickly finds a very loyal following, because when there's not that much to begin with, you stick with the ones who, knowingly or not, cater to your needs. Hell, even Lady Littlefox herself has long said she doesnt model to please the market: she models to please herself -- and it shows. Her products arent just toons: they're whimsical and enchanting and appeal to a very select -- but again, very loyal -- market segment that has stayed with her for years. She could model the phone book, and I'm sure many people would buy it, just because it has her name on it.

So if the PTB at the Rosity MP are telling you that they're oversaturated with V4 stuff, the solution seems pretty simple: make something else. M4 might have a lot of support now, but trust me: in a few weeks, that will change -- and that's a void that someone will have to fill. Sure, it might not be the big sales numbers, but stay with it, and you'll find the sales numbers consistent. And these days, that's the best any of us can hope for.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Sean you're right. Personally, I would like to see a thousand different Poser figures than one figure with a thousand outfits.

Personally, I am glad to see that RMP as a whole has become much pickier about what they allow into the marketplace over the past couple years. As a community of Poser artists, we as a whole are growing and changing and as a result we demand better and better products. Look up the what's new page sometime and skip back to some of the furthest back pages. In general there was nowhere near the quality in products that far back as there is today. Now look at this from the view of being a potential vendor. Your products need to meet or exceed the quality that is being put out NOW. You need to present your product in a way that FULLY shows the products best features and capabilites, as after all it is either accepted or rejected on those promos alone in the initial stages.

You also need to be prepared to deal with rejection. This is hard to understand for most folks. You post an image in the gallery here and you will be greeted with post after post of "gorgeous!" "What a wonderful image!" "Superb! A+++" I'm sorry, but that is not a critique, it is at best a-- kissing. After hearing such comments time after time it deludes one into this sense that they are wonderful and can do no wrong. And then they create a product, submit it, and then can't understand why it is rejected and feel bitter about it.

Rejection is not a bad thing. As an artist you will pour your heart and soul into a creation, so understandably it feels very personal. You need to learn that rejection of your work is not nearly as personal as it seems. Rejection is something that you should use in a positive way to learn and grow as an artist. For me personally, I have a group of great friends (huggles for all my TAC wenches) who are artists as well that I look to for criticism that know I expect nothing less than complete honesty. I expect them to "make it hurt" when I ask them to look something over. Seeing what is wrong with something I have done is the only way for me to learn how to make it better. There is always room to learn and grow, and understanding this is the only way to become good at what you do, whether you want to become a vendor or just produce good art.

As a community of Poser artists, we as a whole are growing and changing and as a result we demand better and better products

Prices should really reflect this as well. I mean $20.00 - $30.00 bucks gimme a break.

You think you should pay less for better quality? I'm sorry if I can't quite follow that logic.

I mean the vendors should charge more!

Scroll up to Capt America, that's the high end version which I'll probably charge $300.00

Ahh yes. In many regards I have to agree, I definately think the Poser market is quite behind in pricing. Unfortunately such a large portion of the market base are hobbyists, that would whine over paying $20-$30 for a high quality model.

Capt. America up there looks great btw :D My mind just boggles when it comes to modelling anything more detailed than a beach ball lol.

You're right and I say let 'em take up another hobby. Vendors have bills to pay.

Thanks, glad you like him. The reason for the $300.00 price tag is most of the buyers at turbosquid are studios.

My God, I don't even believe this thread.

Like-- where do you get the notion that just because you're a customer, you're entitled to dictate what the store decides to carry? No matter how much you spend, you're only ONE customer out of tens of thousands.

That's like me walking into the local supermarket and DEMANDING that they carry a specific brand of hot sauce just because I like it.

And where do you get the notion that a store is obligated to carry something it doesn't believe will sell?

How can people be so totally ignorant of economic reality?

Aw, Blondie go easy on 'em...(whispers)I think this may be their first rejection.

That first rejection always goes the hardest, doesn't it?

I could paper my walls with the rejection letters I've gotten from publishers. DAZ rejects lots, and I've had things rejected here. No big thing, really. Happens to everybody eventually.

Place your bets on what.

I'm going to get off my soapbox now, and let you get back to your day

:: sigh :: I remember my first rejection. He was in the band, and I thought....

Well, never mind.

:)

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

   So I guess it is my turn now..let me see..how shall I start?
I will start by saying how I feel about what I have seen here so far.
There are 4 types of posters here. The first are the honest ones. The second are The Spammers who abuse this forum just to write anything silly to place their Spam. The Third are plugins from Renderosity themselves and Fourth are those Like one of you said the sockpuppets, but for Renderosity not from me. I have also realized by all of this that there is a Clic or shall I say a Clan or maybe a Society ! That does not welcome the fact that some strangers come in.
Now let me answer most of you as short as possible cause I have other things to do in life than spend my day on forums.
   Most of you have "Missed the Boat completely". My Question was "How are we all treated here at Renderosity as Client, Sponsor, and Vendor?" And I have given you a short personal example of How a Vendor was treated and how I myself as Sponsor and Client had been treated. First let us start again from the beginning.
   I sponsor a Vendor by buying everyone of her products here and not only from her. This vendor finished a product that she had shown to some of us and asked us if it was worthy and we all said yes ! Now, she presents it here and is turned down and when we inquired about when it will come out she replies to us that RO had turned it down saying ONLY that they were fludded with V4 chars and didn't think her product would sell well here. THAT is the ONLY sentence she had recieved from them yet afterwards other V4 Chars kept appearing up at MP. Since I have bought everyone of her products and I would of bought Timba here as well, I felt I had the right to see what was going on and inquire about it and I was also answered with a "1" small sentence saying that they do not discuss these things with THIRD parties. Simply brushed off as I said like a speck of dandruff. At least that is how I felt at the moment. In other words "None of your Business".
   Well now lets see..how shall I continue..SO? Me as a client it is none of my business?Yet many of you say "Well it is their Bandwith,They put up Galleries for us, They post lots of free stuff and all of that takes a lot of space on the Web and they have bills to pay,
etc.etc.etc......But I am one of the people that helps pay for all that...and it is NONE OF MY BUSINESS? When I am here helping the Vendors and encouraging them and helping out in paying the bills here. Now how shall I handle that..Well let's Skip RO and I will do my
purchaces elsewhere or buy directly from the vendor. Which I think I gonna do from now on. Since a Client has not his say on what he wants to buy...I don't know about you but if I had a business and clients would be asking me for certain things I certainly would inform
them that I would try to aquire their needs. And if a vendor came to me with a product that I would concider maybe will not sell I would rather say something a bit more like "Well I don't like this or that about it, if you can improve this or that or IF I thought it was only MY OWN
opinion I would then at least say to the Vendor Ok we will try it out for some time.
I have seen this place grow and was quiet all this time never saying anything but when I see something turning sour with something I enjoyed so much I will do something about it. TOO many good vendors were lost here and also many clients because of the nonesence of some
of RO's politics when at the beginning I remember very well..everyone was welcome. But now it has turned into a bunch of Snobs and do not want more people in their little selective society.     THE ANSWERS to my own question here are resumed very clearly.

Was this Vendor treated Fairly ? My answer is NO she was not !! she had not been given a sufficiant and HONEST reason why her product was turned down.
Was I as a Sponsor treated Fairly ? My answer is NO since they did not allow the vendor whom I sponsor sell her product here
Was I as a Client treated Fairly ? My Answer again is NO I was treated as a piece of dirt as if not needed even though I concider that I had invested so much in helping paying your bills and those of the vendors. And that not only in your STORE as you call it now! or
Art Communtity !! please don't make laugh

and what do I see here..
   A Clan that tries to avoid and ignore the real question and turn everything into their favour and change the subject completely and spaming this forum. What is it with you people? What have you become? are you so afraid to be looked down upon from your little group if you dare tell the truth?
...Well I am not the afraid type..I will tell you what I think is the real reason "" was turned down. But before I do I will say this as not to hurt the vendor. is lovely, she is cute, has a lot of possibilities can be turned from Cute upto a warrior and I will buy her.
other stores have her already anyway. It would maybe not be a best seller but certainly would sell. That is at least the opinion of seven of us
(But the real reason I think RO turned it down is because is a Black Character) and Black Characters are difficult to work with since you really do need some good experiance with your lights etc and get a good render to bring out the best of the char's features. So indeed
she would sell less but don't come to us and say that she she would not. Or is it that some are afraid of good competition and are protecting their preferances?
There never was the question about the vendor feeling bad because her product was turned down.
Hell she can take it she has seen more than probably most of you in her life. but rather the WAY she was turned down with only one miserable sentance not even giving a reasonable advice about the product or what they would like to see more of.
   And I will finish off this thing by saying or asking "do I sence a bit of racism here?"..and have fun with the little $'s you got from me
also a little advice..stop feeding your bull...I was flying over the Rockies whilst most of you were playing with Dinky Toys.
   And don't you DARE ever ever Threaten me.
                     You may continue this forum as you wish. I have seen enough. Since Clients or as you say "Third" parties have no say.
Ciao.

Wow. I sense some extremely misplaced anger here.

First, I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone has threatened you.

Second, check the marketplace. If RMP had a problem with black characters, why do I find plenty here?

Third, if she were to ask, they would most likely give her a more specific reason.

*"There are 4 types of posters here. The first are the honest ones. The second are The Spammers who abuse this forum just to write anything silly to place their Spam. The Third are plugins from Renderosity themselves and Fourth are those Like one of you said the sockpuppets"

"A Clan that tries to avoid and ignore the real question "

*You are not only insulting most of the people in this thread with these comments, but also displaying your lack of knowledge of the people in this thread. I owe no loyalty to Renderosity, I was merely stating from my viewpoint why Renderosity is not obliged to take the products of any merchant. I run my own site, and we turn down about 75% of the products offered to us, because we do not feel they fit our market. This does not mean those products are bad, or won't sell on some other site, it just means we are excersizing OUR right to run OUR site, just as Renderosity has the right to run THEIR site and make descisions they feel are right for them.

If you have a problem with Renderosity, please don't paint people make a comment in the forum all with one brush, and please refrain from insulting me in future.

Your specialist military, sci-fi, historical and real world site.

I have been following this thread and as a ex vendor here. I know the process from a few years back was the tester tested the product, if they found mistakes the tester let you know what they found and you fixed.

I had several rejections on a few items when I first started out, either seams in textures did not align or some polys weren't facing forward. I fixed these when I could, and if I could not figure out how to fix I came here and asked how do I fix it.

As I said I am an ex vendor here. The reason why I am no longer a vendor here, is not subject. Let's just say I disagreed with some policies here at the time and gave up selling all together till recently where I vendor on another site.

The point I am trying to make is the testers have make sure that the product just does not work but meets a certain standard of quality. There could be many reasons why a product did not meet the testers standard. I do allot of testing of products from my real world job and I know that it is not quantity but quality people look at.

Poser is not an industry that will make you rich unless you have an idea that no one else had and a good product.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

[quote

Now...the rejection issue. If you are going to work in the 3d field or art in general get used to it. Specially if you start bidding work.

Exactly I just started a new Logo Design project for a new Client
I created two Concepts based his business( a burger joint here in New york )
one of o the two Concept designs I really favored and hoped he would like it a much as i DID.

this morning I got his feed back and ,you guessed, it he HATED the logo concept that i though was the best.

but he liked most of the aspects of my second choice and offered some vital info about his target demographic for me to develop from there
and he Paypal'd me the FULL Payment for the job even though I only required a 50 percent deposit at this point

Making $$$Money$$$ With your creativity Requires HUMILITY.
and the ability to put your opinions and desires aside
this is the reality.

My website

YouTube Channel

I'm not even going to bother responding further to this pointless and insulting rant from someone who is clearly so angry about something so miniscule in the grand scheme of things. There are so many errors of fact and misunderstandings that there is prospect of changing the OP's mind. As for accusations of racism, well, I don't feel that requires an answer at all.

And I'm not a rendo employee/official/staff member or merchant.

Steve

"So I guess it is my turn now..let me see..how shall I start?"

I'd recommend by STFU and learning a few things from some of your fellow members, but I see it's too late for that.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Quote - Most of the time I'm getting so bored with all the same textures offered on every piece off clothing you can find over here, but......made by a favorit Vendor.

If you are thinking about the one I"m thinking of, I kind of like it. I don't think that the vendor's favorite textures work aesthetically on all the clothing, but it is kind of nice to be able to mix and match between the sets.

Quote - Merchant resource kits are the one thing I'd love to see Renderosity and Daz ban (along with anything made from them). Every texture sold here and at Daz should be required to be created from photos the merchants took themselves. THAT would help to ensure quality and a uniqueness to each texture set that would make it worth being placed for sale.

With the low cost of good digital cameras today, there's no excuse not to raise the standards.

Couldn't disagree with you more.
First off, if I were a merchant making clothing textures, I would hate to have to take photos of sample after sample of cloth. This would assuredly drive the price of textures up, and lead to a lack of realistic clothing textures. Similarly, having a resource to go for for things like buttons is a big help. What's next, banning ziptones?

Second, as a hobbyist, I find merchant resources very useful. I use a lot of makeup resources, because I use the same character again and again. One figure I use has a great skin texture, but very limited (and traditional) makeup, and I've made my own textures using a variety of makeup and tattoo merchant resources.

Quote -
I'd recommend by STFU and learning a few things from some of your fellow members, but I see it's too late for that.

Being no English native speaker, I had to search the meaning of STFU... but it was time well spent. :lol: I agree in full! :thumbupboth:

Giorgio

giorgio_2004 here, ksabers on XBox Live, PSN and everywhere else.

As someone once said.

"There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count and those that can't."

cheers,
dr geep <--------------------------------- just spent his last $0.02 ...
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Quote - >> "So I guess it is my turn now..let me see..how shall I start?"

I'd recommend by STFU and learning a few things from some of your fellow members, but I see it's too late for that.

Thirded - three posts and in two of them I can actually sense the oxygen being wasted

My Freebies
Buy stuff on RedBubble

Quote - Well now lets see..how shall I continue..SO? Me as a client it is none of my business?Yet many of you say "Well it is their Bandwith,They put up Galleries for us, They post lots of free stuff and all of that takes a lot of space on the Web and they have bills to pay,
etc.etc.etc......But I am one of the people that helps pay for all that...and it is NONE OF MY BUSINESS?

Let's see if I can explain this in clear terms that even you can understand. It is indeed none of your business because you don't own the store. It doesn't matter how much you spend here. It doesn't matter how much you "sponsor" a vendor by buying his/her stuff. The fact remains that you don't own the store, and therefore the private dealings between the store and one of its vendors is none of your business.

The dealings between my local supermarket and its suppliers are none of my business, and I'm not "entitled" to know anything about it just because I buy stuff at the supermarket.

"Now let me answer most of you as short as possible cause I have other things to do in life than spend my day on forums. "

Could have fooled me.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Now, she presents it here and is turned down and when we inquired about when it will come out she replies to us that RO had turned it down saying ONLY that they were fludded with V4 chars and didn't think her product would sell well here.

Well hell...That's it in a nutshell! Deal with it and move on. Try creating something original.

BTW Don't poop in the punch bowl and expect to make friends at the party.

@bobstuyck:

You do have a vote just like every customer or vendor. As a customer just don't ever buy anything from Rendo again, that's a vote. As a vendor you can go somewhere else to sell products, that's a vote. I do think you are right, in some respects, there is alot of favoritism here. But this is a privately owned and run site, it's their perogative. I know if I had my own site I would not let people, customers or not, tell me what I have in my store. If you think about it you might find you would not either.

cheers.

Mike.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Interesting read, though I tend to skip those that are hard to read for lack of use of proper spacing and such... I will add my philosophy about working in any field (but only came to me when I started in the Graphics Business...)

"It is not personal, it is business."

When I did training Seminars, that was the opening line... it applies to every aspect of business.

The story about the client liking the filler design (Filler Design = any design other than the one you, as the artist, really liked or invested some emotion in...) I have found that is always the case. They never like the one you are the most impressed by or have the most invested in. But, remember, it is not personal, it is only Business.

ratscloset
aka John

Well, my first post here :-)

Seems the question is: R'osity "Marketplace" or R'osity "Store"?

If "marketplace", the business is between the customer and the merchant, the marketplace owner only let the infrastructure. He lays down the general rules. He will not control every single pea for quality, it's the job between the mearchant and the customer.

If "Store": see blondie9999's good example: the supermarket: No need to repost it.
BUT: If I know that there are goods arround the supermarket will not sell, it's my good right to ask why they don't want to sell it. And if I get a rude/stupid/unsatisfying answer, it's a possibility to vote with my feet.

R'osity calls itself a "marketplace", R'osity names the merchants as merchants and not as suppliers.
We are customers of the merchants. We don't buy from, but via R'osity and use it's infrastructure.

I only read arguments against Bobs opinion saying in different words:
R'osity was a store, is a store and will be a store forever, regardless of the naming, my way or the Highway!

IMHO R'osity should reassess it's position.
Just my 2 €-Cents
karlchen

Quote - Well, my first post here :-)

I only read arguments against Bobs opinion saying in different words:
R'osity was a store, is a store and will be a store forever, regardless of the naming, my way or the Highway!.

IMHO R'osity should reassess it's opinion.

Just my 2 €-Cents
karlchen

I agree, but like the gas and oil companies, they only listen when their pocketbook takes a hit. So if a person like Bob or myself feels strongly about it, don't give them any money. It's the only form of dictation that will have any effect.

cheers,

Mike.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

My local grocery store (Meijer) doesn't sell Cafe du Monde Beignet mix. I love the stuff. I could make the suggestion every time I go in that I would really like to see them carry it...but, I buy one box, maybe once a month. It wouldn't make fiscal sense for them to stock it just so I could have my fix once per month. I've asked why they don't carry it, and their reply is that it doesn't sell.

So, I go down to Rocky's in the eastern market and get it. A little out of my way, but worth the effort to ME.

Renderosity's not going to carry everything offered, because not everything will sell here. If it sells elsewhere, that's great. The chances of it selling at a smaller venue is probably greater than selling here.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

karlchen: What should Renderosity reassess its opinion on?

From what I read in your post, you define "marketplace" as something like E-bay and "store" as something like what's called the Renderosity marketplace.
That's just words and terms. In the way you use the words "marketplace" and "store", Renderoisty IS a store. Has been for years. Actually, the correct term would be "broker".

So what opinion should Renderosity change? I don't have a clue.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery My freestuff

svdl - apparently (and this is a theme of many MP based threads, and one I'm completely tired of) is that, because the MP is in it to make money, Renderosity should stop calling itself an "Art Community".

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Froggie-dude, maybe you have a point.

To test your theory, go to any privately held store(like your local computer store), and ask them where they get their parts. You but from them, perhaps you get to know where and how they get the bits?

If so, they should be thrilled to tell you exactly who they get their equipment from, and gasp how much they paid. Because you bought from them. A lot.

And when they stop stocking video card "x" they'll tell you why?

I Don't Think So**.** These people are in business to make money. To do that, they have to be trusted to keep their mouths shut on other's personal issues. Would you enjoy it if you submitted a project you put your heart and soul into, and when they rejected it, them post it here in the Poser Forum for all to see?

That's essentially what you asked them to do. YOU are not the merchant. The merchant saw fit to share her experience, and that's fine. Personally, I'm glad Jen had the presence to remove the vendor's name from these proceedings, so she's not humiliated by your venom. She doesn't need the sort of publicity this thread is producing.

Jen, if we might call upon you once more, to remove the name of the character from his posts, so the poor vendor in this case cannot be identified? She deserves her dignity.

As for you, Bob... Spare us the bull, and do as Sean has suggested.

Grab a nice steaming cup of STFU, grab a chair, play with you Poser, and find someone else to hassle. If you find a store that will tell you, the customer, why they shot down a product, then come back and let us know, so that we, the Vendors, can avoid it.

I'm going to get off my soapbox now, and let you get back to your day

BS, that's a good idea, and I haven't thought of that. OMW.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Might be even better to lock this thread as some solid reasons as to why have been given and it's now going downhill. Plus the fact that it should have remained private between Rendo and the vendor to begin with.

Simple fact is, Rendo, as a broker, can pick and choose what it wants to broker. And they'll go for sure sales over maybe sales every time. It just makes sense.

Quote - My local grocery store (Meijer) doesn't sell Cafe du Monde Beignet mix. I love the stuff. I could make the suggestion every time I go in that I would really like to see them carry it...but, I buy one box, maybe once a month. It wouldn't make fiscal sense for them to stock it just so I could have my fix once per month. I've asked why they don't carry it, and their reply is that it doesn't sell.

So, I go down to Rocky's in the eastern market and get it. A little out of my way, but worth the effort to ME.

Renderosity's not going to carry everything offered, because not everything will sell here. If it sells elsewhere, that's great. The chances of it selling at a smaller venue is probably greater than selling here.

And that is business, if sales are doing well then they are keeping the majority of their customer base happy. If sales drop then they need to find out why.

Everyone likes to vent on occasion. (me too :lol:) I have noticed alot of it since I've been here Bob seems to have a strong opinion for which he has the right to. Just like everyone else in this thread.

Cheers.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Awright!...Ante up! Let's see the product in question.

It has been published through one of the stores... I won't say which one, but it can be found, if one takes the few remaining cues from this thread and chases it down.

Personally, I'm thinking that this form of publicity will unduly influence this product, the way it has so many others. Let it stand or fall on its' own merits, and the Merchant in question keep her hair, sanity, and dignity.

Thank You.

I'm going to get off my soapbox now, and let you get back to your day

'Nuff Said

Quote - Froggie-dude, maybe you have a point.

To test your theory, go to any privately held store(like your local computer store), and ask them where they get their parts. You but from them, perhaps you get to know where and how they get the bits?

If so, they should be thrilled to tell you exactly who they get their equipment from, and gasp how much they paid. Because you bought from them. A lot.

And when they stop stocking video card "x" they'll tell you why?

I Don't Think So**.**

The right example is:

Go to your local computer store where you buy most of your hardware, tell them about a pretty new graphics adapter with a lot of bells and whistles, ask them why they don't sell them and instead of explanations like instable, too hot, bad drivers and so on you will get a "Shut up!"...

I don't think that you will be custumer there any longer.

And I don't believe that any rl store will act in that way, it will loose it's customers in a very very short time.

Regards
karlchen

I got a question... How many sockpuppets are going to participate in this thread?

Quote - Merchant resource kits are the one thing I'd love to see Renderosity and Daz ban (along with anything made from them). Every texture sold here and at Daz should be required to be created from photos the merchants took themselves. THAT would help to ensure quality and a uniqueness to each texture set that would make it worth being placed for sale.

With the low cost of good digital cameras today, there's no excuse not to raise the standards.

And you would have a lot less products to choose from and a majority of the character skins would really, really, really be BAD!

Not everyone will pay for a subscription to 3d.sk to get studio quality textures suitable for skinning. Moreover, having a camera doesn't mean you can use it worth a darn. Taking a picture for the family scrapbook is VERY different than taking studio quality photographs for use in 3D texturing.

Quote - As a community of Poser artists, we as a whole are growing and changing and as a result we demand better and better products

Prices should really reflect this as well. I mean $20.00 - $30.00 bucks gimme a break.

Volume counts. However, considering the demand and the customer base, an increase in prices would substantially lower volume. This isn't a "Professionals Only" type of community. 3D is not a cheap hobby to begin with once you get hooked on it. It takes a lot of time. If the costs were any higher, software would suffer as well. Not as many people would buy Poser or download DS if the models and accessories for them weren't reasonably priced.

It's a delicate balance. What is needed is an increase in sale's volume, not an increase in sale's price.

Quote - You're right and I say let 'em take up another hobby. Vendors have bills to pay.

Thanks, glad you like him. The reason for the $300.00 price tag is most of the buyers at turbosquid are studios.

I don't know how you're going to get that price. How did you get around the copyright laws?

Quote - > Quote - Merchant resource kits are the one thing I'd love to see Renderosity and Daz ban (along with anything made from them). Every texture sold here and at Daz should be required to be created from photos the merchants took themselves. THAT would help to ensure quality and a uniqueness to each texture set that would make it worth being placed for sale.

With the low cost of good digital cameras today, there's no excuse not to raise the standards.

And you would have a lot less products to choose from and a majority of the character skins would really, really, really be BAD!

Not everyone will pay for a subscription to 3d.sk to get studio quality textures suitable for skinning. Moreover, having a camera doesn't mean you can use it worth a darn. Taking a picture for the family scrapbook is VERY different than taking studio quality photographs for use in 3D texturing.

I second that. I purchased a decent Cannon awhile back and still cannot figure out how to get really good photo's out of it :lol: Photography's a whole new field of expertise. I have a subscription to 3dsk but thought it would be better if I could have my own photo's that are unique. I've changed my mind, I'll stick with photo's taken by someone who knows what they're doing.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

*And you would have a lot less products to choose from and a majority of the character skins would really, really, really be BAD!

Not everyone will pay for a subscription to 3d.sk to get studio quality textures suitable for skinning. Moreover, having a camera doesn't mean you can use it worth a darn. Taking a picture for the family scrapbook is VERY different than taking studio quality photographs for use in 3D texturing.*

Nah...I don't think so...

"That's like me walking into the local supermarket and DEMANDING that they carry a specific brand of hot sauce just because I like it."

Actually you don't have to demand just ask, they consider it a customer service and unless they can't get it they are often happy to order the item.

If products are going to be refused because the markets are glutted with them, and yes I think that there needs to be a push away from the glut of "pretty Vickie's" and other add on type items, then it needs to be a clear policy that applies to everyone evenly. If there are issues with the product, keeping in mind that odds are that refusal or acceptance by brokerages is based on promotional images and not the actual quality of the product itself, then it would be perhaps in the best interest of the brokerages to encourage and support content creators so that rather than alienate them they build up a loyalty that might pay of down the road after the creator is well established.

www.Calida3d.com
Daz studio and Poser content creators

Quote - So I guess it is my turn now..let me see..how shall I start?
I will start by saying how I feel about what I have seen here so far.
There are 4 types of posters here. The first are the honest ones. The second are The Spammers who abuse this forum just to write anything silly to place their Spam. The Third are plugins from Renderosity themselves and Fourth are those Like one of you said the sockpuppets, but for Renderosity not from me. I have also realized by all of this that there is a Clic or shall I say a Clan or maybe a Society ! That does not welcome the fact that some strangers come in.
Now let me answer most of you as short as possible cause I have other things to do in life than spend my day on forums.
Most of you have "Missed the Boat completely". My Question was "How are we all treated here at Renderosity as Client, Sponsor, and Vendor?" And I have given you a short personal example of How a Vendor was treated and how I myself as Sponsor and Client had been treated. First let us start again from the beginning....... Ciao.

Yadda, yadda, yadda... I already read your opening post. There's no need to restate it.

Quote - ...(But the real reason I think RO turned it down is because is a Black Character) and Black Characters are difficult to work with since you really do need some good experiance with your lights etc and get a good render to bring out the best of the char's features. So indeed she would sell less but don't come to us and say that she she would not. Or is it that some are afraid of good competition and are protecting their preferances?...

That's a load of horse hockey.

First of all, I'll say this: From what I saw of the character where it is now being sold, it wasn't worth paying for. That is the honest-to-goodness truth. It isn't because it was black. It was because it appeared like it was very a very poorly done collection of 32+ Merchant packs. I saw nothing original, interesting, innovative or appealing in that product. Nada.. Zilcho.. Zip. That has nothing to do with the character being black. Not one thing. It just looks plain "bad" and not worth buying. There was nothing at all unique about the product or even half-way interesting. Who's fault is that? The artist may be the most talented person to grace the face of the planet. I don't know. I certainly can not tell that from the way the product was presented and certainly can't tell that from the content listing or the description of the features of the product.

In my opinion as a customer and 3D hobbyist along with my years of practical business, marketing and managing experience: In short, it wasn't worth hosting because it probably wouldn't sell in the highly competitive V4 cornucopia of already poorly done characters.

Quote - >> "So I guess it is my turn now..let me see..how shall I start?"

I'd recommend by STFU and learning a few things from some of your fellow members, but I see it's too late for that.

/win

:)

*"The second are The Spammers who abuse this forum just to write anything silly to place their Spam. " *

Pot meet kettle, kettle meet the pot.

"I'd recommend by STFU and learning a few things from some of your fellow members, but I see it's too late for that."

Good advice there.

"The Blood is the life!"

*I don't know how you're going to get that price. How did you get around the copyright laws?

Fer cryin' out loud!!!

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/15780
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/weapon-x-3d-ma/339424
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3ds-max-spider-man/330068

Quote - "That's like me walking into the local supermarket and DEMANDING that they carry a specific brand of hot sauce just because I like it."

Actually you don't have to demand just ask, they consider it a customer service and unless they can't get it they are often happy to order the item.

I agree. As a matter of fact, I do that with a store locally. There's a Cincinnati style chili I can't get where I am that is GREAT for making conie-style hotogs. So, when it's time for the World Series, I get them to order some for me. They're a national chain and the manager is very happy to order whatever they can for me. Ain't customer service great? :)

Quote - If products are going to be refused because the markets are glutted with them, and yes I think that there needs to be a push away from the glut of "pretty Vickie's" and other add on type items, then it needs to be a clear policy that applies to everyone evenly. If there are issues with the product, keeping in mind that odds are that refusal or acceptance by brokerages is based on promotional images and not the actual quality of the product itself, then it would be perhaps in the best interest of the brokerages to encourage and support content creators so that rather than alienate them they build up a loyalty that might pay of down the road after the creator is well established.

IMO, it's not that they need to artificially reduce the number of "Pretty" vicky products but to encourage unique products.

One thing I CAN'T STAND is "Dialspin Characters" being sold. It's just plain stupid. I'd never knowingly buy a dialspin character. What's the point when I already have it? What, I pay for some numbers to input into a mesh? GG, thanks but no thanks.

And, that's the problem. You see, most everyone is working within a narrow range of choices when working with the mesh. They're not actually "modeling" anything. They're spinning dials. Whoopity doo! What really needs to be done are original morphs, not dialspins. Luckily, Z-Brush is out there and will help many people get over their dialspin addiction once they have saved up the cash. There are very few character packs out there that I see which have "original morphs" on the label. That's darn sad...

As far as clothing goes, here's the rub: Modern Humans wear underwear, pants, shirts, blouses, skirts, shoes, hats and coats. These are all bilaterally symmetrical. We're neat that way. However, there is only so much variation in these things as far as the construction. Materials, well, that's a different story altogether and the fashion industry is ga-ga over materials. But, once you have reached a certain point, someone has already done it. It may be for another figure but, with conversion utilities, that's not a problem.

When you add in the fact that the base meshes are all that are being tweaked and not many people are doing custom morphs AND that clothing only has so much variation before everything starts to look mundane.. Well, there ya go.

Producers must start producing "unique" and "interesting" products instead of dialspins and "just another texture pack" type of products if they want to contribute something useful and excite people. Otherwise, we'll be cursed with dialspins and the 50 thousandth denim/silk/rubber texture pack for the same darn pair of morphing jeans for the rest of eternity.

(I really hope the influx of new 3D applications will encourage more people to begin producing unique and innovative products. Maybe, someone out there will "Get" what I'm talking about. Time will tell if they end up producing exciting products before I hit my stride and start vendoring my own.)

Quote - *I don't know how you're going to get that price. How did you get around the copyright laws?

Fer cryin' out loud!!!

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/15780
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/weapon-x-3d-ma/339424
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3ds-max-spider-man/330068

OK... how did they get around the copyright laws? :)

It's just a question but, perhaps, another thread is better. Their possible infraction does not speak to anyone else's. Someone else selling a likeness does not count at putting it in the public domain unless, and only if, the original copyright owner knows about it and actively chooses not to attempt to block it. (Even then, it's iffy. But, the artists around here know the ins&outs better than I do.)

OK... how did they get around the copyright laws? :)

Contact the admin at turbosquid, I'm sure they have the answer.

Hey Morkonan!

Man, I owe you big time! Forget turbosquid. Gonna contact Marvel' licensing dept and see if we can become the official supplier of 3d Marvel characters.

Quote - Hey Morkonan!

Man, I owe you big time! Forget turbosquid. Gonna contact Marvel' licensing dept and see if we can become the official supplier of 3d Marvel characters.

Good luck man!

Quote - *I don't know how you're going to get that price. How did you get around the copyright laws?

Fer cryin' out loud!!!

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/15780
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/weapon-x-3d-ma/339424
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3ds-max-spider-man/330068

The first link item has already been pulled. I suspect the next two will follow suit once the right people are informed.

Quote - > Quote - *I don't know how you're going to get that price. How did you get around the copyright laws?

Fer cryin' out loud!!!

The first link item has already been pulled. I suspect the next two will follow suit once the right people are informed.

Whoops...

Hello. This is Talwicca and this thread is about me and one of my products. I feel I need to clear a few things up. Bob is one of my sponsors, he buys all my products and so has a vested interest in my work. What he has posted was done because he is my sponsor and was sticking up for me, which is fine with me. I am selling Timba elsewhere so I do not care that she has been rejected, although I do think that they could have given me a better reason than they did. The market is continuing to receive V4 characters on a daily basis so saying that they are saturated with V4 characters is not a good reason. It does not help me know what to create or what they feel will sell at all, and isnt that what we venders need to know? Over half a dozen of my testers and product users have used Timba in their work and have found her a very buyable product.

I respect Bob's view on the policies being a bit biased, and when he told me that he was going to post in the forums I agreed that he could discuss the product. I do not want the name of the product or my vender name withheld like I am afraid and hiding. I think Timba is a great character so I am not ashamed to let people know of which product we speak. I am not hurt or angry about the rejection but I am disappointed that they could not come up with a better answer or reason as to why she was rejected. Was there an errors? I do not think so because I have several testers who helped me fix any that were found and I will tell you one of my testers is fantastic when it comes to finding problems, also she was accepted by another store quickly.In fact I think all my friends were more effected by the rejection than I was.

I hope that if anything, this forum posting will maybe urge Renderosity to give a more detailed and helpful reply in the case of rejections So that vendors will perhaps know what products are needed and not waste their time on trying to make ones that are not currently needed in the marketplace. Timba is not a high end model for which I would have to charge a high price, but she is as good as any other V4 character that is in the price range targeting buyers who cant afford 20$ characters in these financially shaky times. There aren't enough characters in that category as there is, in my honest opinion. One thing was said that I will correct personally, Someone said that my resource list was almost as long as the file list for Timba. That was an oversight on my account. I keep a template readme.txt listing all of my resources so that I do not have to look the names up every time, I take out the ones not used when making the final readme.txt. I missed that step. But that does not make Timba a bad product. We are all human, aren't we?

Also I would like to say that there were several extremely derogative remarks aimed directly at Bob and at myself in my absence, that only shows the intelligence and level of manners of the people that said them and I think we all know who those persons were. I myself am appalled by their lack of etiquette. This will be my only post on this matter.

Talwicca
The Laughing Lion Studio

Quote -
I agree. As a matter of fact, I do that with a store locally. There's a Cincinnati style chili I can't get where I am that is GREAT for making conie-style hotogs. So, when it's time for the World Series, I get them to order some for me. They're a national chain and the manager is very happy to order whatever they can for me. Ain't customer service great? :)

Ah, as a fellow Cincinnatian, I can be very proud of the chilis they make as well. You can't beat that.

Quote - One thing I CAN'T STAND is "Dialspin Characters" being sold. It's just plain stupid. I'd never knowingly buy a dialspin character. What's the point when I already have it? What, I pay for some numbers to input into a mesh? GG, thanks but no thanks.

And, that's the problem. You see, most everyone is working within a narrow range of choices when working with the mesh. They're not actually "modeling" anything. They're spinning dials. Whoopity doo! What really needs to be done are original morphs, not dialspins. Luckily, Z-Brush is out there and will help many people get over their dialspin addiction once they have saved up the cash. There are very few character packs out there that I see which have "original morphs" on the label. That's darn sad...

I can say that I'm one the guilty parties with a "dialspin" character disorder, lol. On a serious note, creating something unique takes time and practice and I'm not knocking that out at all And you're right: we're being bombarded with the same things over and over just right here, the only uniqueness I see are from the likes of Aery Soul and Blackharted just to name a few, but an array of the supermodel/girl-next-door/ sci-fi babe types can be done a bit much -- when's M4 gonna get his spotlight?

For me, I just made a custom head sculpt of M4 from Hex 2, at least it counts to something. Man, I would give my right arm to own z-Brush/3D Coat just for making custom morphs or just creating something alone. But, if I ever try to sell something here, I would like to stand out from the crowd.

One thing I've learned that this is the "real" world, even with Reality TV, there's always some winners and losers, acceptance and rejection (how well I know rejection in my own life), take it for what it is and move on, I'll say. That's what life is all about

I just couldn't resist Markonan's reply of Cincinnati-style chili -- not to get off topic though, but I wanted to put in my few pennie's worth on the subject.

JB

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Asus N50-600 - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home/11 upgrade 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 1TB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x

Quote - I got a question... How many sockpuppets are going to participate in this thread?

Sockpuppets? There are no Sock Puppets in this thread! How dare you imply such?!

Oh and what TrekkieGrrrl said was right! ;)

Quote - I can say that I'm one the guilty parties with a "dialspin" character disorder, lol. On a serious note, creating something unique takes time and practice and I'm not knocking that out at all And you're right: we're being bombarded with the same things over and over just right here, the only uniqueness I see are from the likes of Aery Soul and Blackharted just to name a few, but an array of the supermodel/girl-next-door/ sci-fi babe types can be done a bit much -- when's M4 gonna get his spotlight?

As far as being "guilty" don't worry about that. I was more ranting on the plethora of dialspins then decrying them as not having their place. It's also a matter of personal preference for me and I wish I had been more clear on that.

Quote - For me, I just made a custom head sculpt of M4 from Hex 2, at least it counts to something. Man, I would give my right arm to own z-Brush/3D Coat just for making custom morphs or just creating something alone. But, if I ever try to sell something here, I would like to stand out from the crowd.

That's awesome! See? That's what I'm talking about! You've actually produced something uniquely yours! If we had more products like that, containing things that only the artist themselves cold have produced, there wouldn't be as many complaints about how "Everything looks the same." There are only so many variations on the same theme the market can bear.

Quote - One thing I've learned that this is the "real" world, even with Reality TV, there's always some winners and losers, acceptance and rejection (how well I know rejection in my own life), take it for what it is and move on, I'll say. That's what life is all about

Absolutely. And, the wonderful thing is that even though there is rejection in the World, there is ALWAYS acceptance somewhere as well.

Quote - I just couldn't resist Markonan's reply of Cincinnati-style chili -- not to get off topic though, but I wanted to put in my few pennie's worth on the subject.

A roommate of mine in college first introduced me to it. Cincinnati-style chili on a big hotdog with a mound of finely grated medium chedder cheese stacked so high you can't see the bun and loads of tobasco or, even better, spread over vermicelli with cheese and tobasco... it's like ... awesome! :)

*Sockpuppets? There are no Sock Puppets in this thread! How dare you imply such?!

Oh and what TrekkieGrrrl said was right! ;)*

Yep! Good call TrekkieGrrrl!

OK Bob and Talwicca, what's next? DisneyWorld?

Good luck man!

Thanks! We're working up the promo and we'll submit it to Marvel monday.

Quote - *"The second are The Spammers who abuse this forum just to write anything silly to place their Spam. " *Pot meet kettle, kettle meet the pot.

:lol:

www.darkedgedesign.com/DownGoesFrasier.wav

Comitted to excellence through art.

Quote - *Sockpuppets? There are no Sock Puppets in this thread! How dare you imply such?!

Oh and what TrekkieGrrrl said was right! ;)*

Yep! Good call TrekkieGrrrl!

What? Who? Me?

I plead innocence. It's against the TOS to have more than one account. I don't know nothing about a sock puppet....

Good luck convincing Marvel, Patorak. And that was NOT irony in case you wondered :)

TOS???...Isn't that a Star Trek series?

Good luck convincing Marvel, Patorak. And that was NOT irony in case you wondered :)

If Jack Kirby is with us...Who can be against us.

"nuff said."

Comitted to excellence through art.

Quote - Thanks! We're working up the promo and we'll submit it to Marvel monday.

Outstanding! Way to go man! Best of luck!

Marvel > ALL ;)

Quote - Hey Morkonan!

Man, I owe you big time! Forget turbosquid. Gonna contact Marvel' licensing dept and see if we can become the official supplier of 3d Marvel characters.

Good Luck!

Thanks! Now if I can just make sense out of this...http://www.marvel.com/company/index.htm?sub=contact_current.htm

Quote - Thanks! Now if I can just make sense out of this...http://www.marvel.com/company/index.htm?sub=contact_current.htm

(Not trying to steer further offtopic but, since this is an important legal matter...)

1) Firstly,

"Licensing -*Marvel asks that all requests for licensing information or proposal submissions be in writing.

Send your letter to:
Marvel Licensing Department
Marvel Entertainment, Inc.
417 5th. Avenue
New York, NY 10016"

*IOW - They want a hardcopy request and if you don't comply, they're not going to look favorably on your application. Don't start off on the wrong foot - Compose a nice hardcopy request and include whatever information you think is relevent. I'd think certain things would be important or necessary, such as - a brief company history and mission statement would be needed along with examples of your work, your market penetration, public sales figures, employees and any special accomplishments your company has achieved. But, you may want to ask them directly what they'd like to see... (See below)

Secondly,

"..Contact the Marvel licensing department online »..."

That would be for questions relating to their licensing in general and not for product licensing requests. For instance, don't contact them online to request a license but, instead, you may want to ask them how long the typical review process is. Or, you may want to ask what type of information should you include in your licensing request. Once you have submitted your request, in writing, you may end up waiting for a number of weeks without a response and may need to check up on your application. Then, you'd use that online form, more than likely.

Good luck!

**Excelsior!! ** :)

Hi Morkonan

Got it! Thanks for the explanation!

I've never seen rendo reject a really good product.

If anything, I wouldn't mind it at all if they raised the bar a bit higher when it comes to products... but that's just my personal preference.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - I've never seen rendo reject a really good product.

If anything, I wouldn't mind it at all if they raised the bar a bit higher when it comes to products... but that's just my personal preference.

I have to agree.

Quote - I've never seen rendo reject a really good product.

If anything, I wouldn't mind it at all if they raised the bar a bit higher when it comes to products... but that's just my personal preference.

I think the "bar" is fine but there needs to be more of a way to differentiate between products. How many times has someone clicked on a texture set thinking it might actually be a mesh? Or, which characters are dialspins and which are hand done morphs? Neither textures or dialspins are bad things. But, they get mixed up in the soup of products so easily it's hard to wade through everything. Then again, if things were more sectioned off, some sales in certain areas may drop because people simply wouldn't be aware of the product and their choices would be artificially limited. So, there's a "method to the madness" there I have to acknowledge.

The one thing I really would like to see is more focus on the presentation of the product itself. I would like to see wireframes, good renders using lighting available with the package and not just standard default lights, all angles of the products, etc..

You know, Renderosity would be GREATLY served if they incorporated a 3D object viewer into their product descriptions. If they don't want to do it, which may be a bit too difficult for them to do considering all the products, then manufacturers of these products should be able to place links to outside of the site where specialized attention towards marketing can help boost sales.. like a revolving 3D projection of the product being sold. Even a short youtube clip or even an animated gif of the product's lit wireframe revolving would be greatly appreciated.

Quote - You know, Renderosity would be GREATLY served if they incorporated a 3D object viewer into their product descriptions.

Unless there is a different method of doing this that involves doing the render of the image completely on the server side, the common way of providing what you're talking about is to actually send the geometry to the client (in this case the person browsing the market) and rendering it on the client side. Inevitably, someone will find the details of how the geometry is being transferred and strip it out, and pirate the geometry/textures. Cf. Second Life for a popular example. I hope Rendo does NOT do this. If there are screenshots that you feel are not representative of particular products, the fix is to complain about those misrepresenting screenshots.

Quote - Even a short youtube clip or even an animated gif of the product's lit wireframe revolving would be greatly appreciated.

That's a good alternative.

My Freebies

I'm so tired of every user wanting to be a vendor and every vendor thinking they are a "professional". That is like a Sunday painter getting some pictures on the wall of the local coffee shop and expecting $5000 for a canvas given the work they put in... if they were a pro the canvas would be worth upward of $50 grand and the dealers would be coming to you (your agent actually). If you were a professional modeler or 3D artist you would be making $5,000 for a days work not bitching about mere hobyists not buying stuff for over $10. I have earned tens of thousands in royalties on a mornings work as a commercial artist back in my prime... anyone who thinks a professional and is making Poser content is deluded. A few hobyist who LOVE their work are paying rent with Poser income but those people would do the exact same work even if it derived no income. I have a long list of total crap I got at the RMP that I have no idea how it got through testing... stuff sold as Poser compatable that simply will not open or render in Poser... some vendors have made good with me and some have not. Seems to me a lot of the top content is far inferior to the old freebies. The people who stand out in terms of quality almost universally stand out as artists with unique vision. Often I buy there stuff just for the pleasure of viewing it on my computer since I could not imagine claiming as remotely my own anything done with it :)

Quote - I'm so tired of every user wanting to be a vendor and every vendor thinking they are a "professional".

You are not alone!

Quote - I'm so tired of every user wanting to be a vendor and every vendor thinking they are a "professional".

Methinks that sums up this entire thread nicely...

<-insert words of wisdom here->

Quote - "I'm so tired of every user wanting to be a vendor and every vendor thinking they are a "professional". "

Yup.

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Quote - > Quote - I've never seen rendo reject a really good product.

If anything, I wouldn't mind it at all if they raised the bar a bit higher when it comes to products... but that's just my personal preference.

I think the "bar" is fine but there needs to be more of a way to differentiate between products. How many times has someone clicked on a texture set thinking it might actually be a mesh? Or, which characters are dialspins and which are hand done morphs?

LOL, yea I hear ya, every year when they do their 'suggestion' pool, how are we doing thing, I write in how marketplace classifications/categories need to be better defined.... So it goes.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

I love it! We don't agree or support the sockpuppets....er...users, and that makes US bad
mannered and lacking in intelligence?! {SIGH} I work in customer service, and I have to
say that the average IQ of John Q. Customer drops like a rock EVERY year. I believe if
those two, ah, individuals, and their sockpuppets, leave, the average IQ of the R'osity userbase
should go up by several points. :) I also absolutely HATE the playing if the race card. It is a
sign of the unimaginative mind.

Greywolf

Quote - I'm so tired of every user wanting to be a vendor and every vendor thinking they are a "professional". That is like a Sunday painter getting some pictures on the wall of the local coffee shop and expecting $5000 for a canvas given the work they put in... if they were a pro the canvas would be worth upward of $50 grand and the dealers would be coming to you (your agent actually). If you were a professional modeler or 3D artist you would be making $5,000 for a days work not bitching about mere hobyists not buying stuff for over $10. I have earned tens of thousands in royalties on a mornings work as a commercial artist back in my prime... anyone who thinks a professional and is making Poser content is deluded. A few hobyist who LOVE their work are paying rent with Poser income but those people would do the exact same work even if it derived no income. I have a long list of total crap I got at the RMP that I have no idea how it got through testing... stuff sold as Poser compatable that simply will not open or render in Poser... some vendors have made good with me and some have not. Seems to me a lot of the top content is far inferior to the old freebies. The people who stand out in terms of quality almost universally stand out as artists with unique vision. Often I buy there stuff just for the pleasure of viewing it on my computer since I could not imagine claiming as remotely my own anything done with it :)

There are few vendors that I will pay over 20 dollars for an item and that is mainly because time after time they have proven themselves and its always quality stuff. There are many items I wont dish out that kind of money for. Sad, but true, promos really make the product.

Patorak if you do get to become thier official distributer I'd very much like to work with you since I have created some of the marvel comics textures for the Gen 3 Bodysuits for myself a time or two. :lol:

"The Blood is the life!"

Patorak if you do get to become thier official distributer I'd very much like to work with you since I have created some of the marvel comics textures for the Gen 3 Bodysuits for myself a time or two.

Cool! Pm me.

@ patorak
@ daidalos

Have you read this from the Marvel site?

http://www.marvel.com/company/index.htm?sub=submissions_current.htm

My 66th Birthday PC Build (July 1, 2020) : named BadMoonRYZEN!, W10Pro x64, Octal Core RYZEN7 X3700 4.05 GHz, 64GB DDR4 RAM, GeForce RTX 3060 - 12GB GDDR6, PP2014, PP 11, P12, PS-CS4 Extended & Vue 2024.

McG.

About the Renderosity Marketplace store and all the hooplah about product rejection.

Item type redundancy.

oh, yeah, the whole arena is flooded with Victoria 4 character sets.   I've bought over 150 V4 character sets. Primarily to get good skin mats. TEXTURES. I can dial great character morphs, those aren't needed. It's a lot more difficult to create great texture sets. And out of all of those I bought, there are very few that I actually use. Ya live and learn.   I've learned who a few of the artists are who create excellent textures for skin mats. And some who don't. Yet. There IS a kind of sameness going around with the character sets for V4. How could there not be?  It is a human figure, so what kinds of variations will be workable and wanted? Same for the clothes. How many different bikinis, mini skirts, nighties and such do we have available?  TONS. Are they different enough, fittable enough, and attractive enough to be salable? I'll quote JenX here.
"Welcome to the real world, where in order for a store to take your stuff, they have to want it."
And the stores are gonna want stuff that stands a chance of SELLING.   No matter how excellent your character set or item is, if it can't get by that line you may need to regroup and work something else up on the drawing board.
Last point:   "I spent a LOT of money here...."
ROFL!!! That one just cracks me UP!    Hey, how much is a LOT of money?  $10,000.00 USD??
I betcha fully half of the regular customers have LONG since passed the $1,000.00 line.    Thing is, yep you spent the money. AND you got the content or software from that purchase. So you spent a lot of money and got a lot of stuff. So?   What else can the Store OWE you? Civility, respect, politeness?   I get that from them and I think we all do. Consideration as a vendor/artist?  Go back to that "Welcome to the real world" line. Cause you just crossed into an entirely different realm.
One caveat to being a KNOWN GOOD artist whose works do sell well is that the venue you are operating from will indeed favor your submissions. And why NOT?!?!   Gee whiz, if I was the store THAT would be very near the top of my acceptability criteria!!!!!   You betcha New Artists have a right tough time of getting something accepted or even just looked at seriously!
These stores are a tough sell and rightly so.   Look at how many new submissions for V4 character sets come in every week. OR new lingerie, bikinis, shorts, HAIR.   It's a tough field. It won't be easy. Did someone tell you it would be?
Renderosity ain't perfect. But they're pretty darn good, IMO.

My 66th Birthday PC Build (July 1, 2020) : named BadMoonRYZEN!, W10Pro x64, Octal Core RYZEN7 X3700 4.05 GHz, 64GB DDR4 RAM, GeForce RTX 3060 - 12GB GDDR6, PP2014, PP 11, P12, PS-CS4 Extended & Vue 2024.

McG.

*@ patorak
@ daidalos

Have you read this from the Marvel site?

http://www.marvel.com/company/index.htm?sub=submissions_current.htm*

@McGrandpa

Thanks for the link!

You're welcome! Good luck to ya! :D
McG.

My 66th Birthday PC Build (July 1, 2020) : named BadMoonRYZEN!, W10Pro x64, Octal Core RYZEN7 X3700 4.05 GHz, 64GB DDR4 RAM, GeForce RTX 3060 - 12GB GDDR6, PP2014, PP 11, P12, PS-CS4 Extended & Vue 2024.

McG.

I see this thread took a different direction but I'll just pust my toughts anyway.

I come to rendo because the quality of the products are high (higher than most of the other MP's I visit), they have high standars for the products they accept, and I like that, same wth Vicky's homeplace, its hard to find a low quality product over there. Sometimes I find products that are not up to the standars I'm used to see around here, and it surprises me because it's not common.

Now, its true there's a lot of the same, but that doesn't mean a product is bad, it's just not original, and that's another issue.

It might be true new artists get their product rejected while "favorite" ones upload just about the same, but somehow it's their right; from a bussiness point of view you are better off selling something with a known name on it. Also, more likely they didnt get their reputation just selling market common products, and they probably got many items rejected along the way too.

You're welcome! Good luck to ya! :D
McG.

The Poser versions will be free. I'm just waitin' on my tax return, so I can buy Splinegod's Lightwave to Poser plug in.

>> "I've bought over 150 V4 character sets."

My Lord. You're a one-man stimulus package...

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

I'm so tired...

Then cut down on the caffeine and get a good night's sleep.

>> "I've bought over 150 V4 character sets."

My Lord. You're a one-man stimulus package...*

That's just a drop in the bucket compared to what studios spend on content.

Quote - "I'm so tired of every user wanting to be a vendor and every vendor thinking they are a "professional"
Hey! I don't resemble that remark! :)

"I've bought over 150 V4 character sets."
Yup, that's me. :-p

My Lord. You're a one-man stimulus package...
Nah, just doing what all good li'l content junkies do! :-D

That's just a drop in the bucket compared to what studios spend on content.
Say now, isn't that what the Studios want YOU for? :)

McG.

My 66th Birthday PC Build (July 1, 2020) : named BadMoonRYZEN!, W10Pro x64, Octal Core RYZEN7 X3700 4.05 GHz, 64GB DDR4 RAM, GeForce RTX 3060 - 12GB GDDR6, PP2014, PP 11, P12, PS-CS4 Extended & Vue 2024.

McG.

That's just a drop in the bucket compared to what studios spend on content.
Say now, isn't that what the Studios want YOU for? :)

LOL! My boss says I'm a charity write off.

Oh I think they all say that. My last boss said that for 23 years. Then, out the door for disability, in a month he was saying all kinds of nice things and how he wished he had me back. :D Managers are taught to be that way, didn't you know?

My 66th Birthday PC Build (July 1, 2020) : named BadMoonRYZEN!, W10Pro x64, Octal Core RYZEN7 X3700 4.05 GHz, 64GB DDR4 RAM, GeForce RTX 3060 - 12GB GDDR6, PP2014, PP 11, P12, PS-CS4 Extended & Vue 2024.

McG.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: How we are all treated here at Renderosity as Client, Sponsor, and Vendor