Does anyyone else feel like they take too long when they make Poser products for the marketplace?

I put alot of work into my products (even though it may not look like it) and the process is slow. I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department.

Does anyone else have this issue or at least feel like that?

Quote - Does anyyone else feel like they take too long when they make Poser products for the marketplace?

I put alot of work into my products (even though it may not look like it) and the process is slow. I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department.

Does anyone else have this issue or at least feel like that?

Hmm I guess I would say it takes long for products I want to show up in the marketplace between releases. I hunt for certain kinds of items though.

On the contrary, whenever a new product is released, addons and textures are released almost instantly for that product by other vendors.

...and quality is best. Keep going at the pace you do to keep producing quality items.

There's really no such thing as too long, unless someone else gets
to market with the same thing first.... and there's no way to predict that. 

Only a few of the merchants make enough money to count it on the
basis of wages.   The rest of us are working mainly for the love of the craft,
with money as a nice little 'tip'.

Unless you're one of the few high-volume producers, you'll be happier
in the end when you satisfy your sense of artistic integrity.

And your customers will be happier with high quality.

My python page
My ShareCG freebies

I agree with ockham.  If you feel you make good quality work at the pace you're going, there's no sense in trying to work faster.  It will only make you sacrifice in other areas.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Anything quality takes time. Stonemason takes months to work on one of his releases, and he is considered one of the top vendors anywhere.

Faveral is the same way. He might work on something for 3 months before it's release.

The real question though, is are we underpaid for the amount of work involved, and the answer to that is YES.

Customers expect more features, better rigging, improved textureing, ect because of 3d advancements,  however prices on many things have gone down rather then up.

And as a customer I do expect to see new features and advancements in products I purchase.

If you want to be seen as a quality vendor, you need to invest the time and effort to create high quality content.

Crap vendors are a dimne a dozen, and few make any money at this at all.. the top vendors however do invest the time into thier craftsmanship, and they do make a living doing this, because they have made a name for themselves.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

*I put alot of work into my products (even though it may not look like it) and the process is slow. I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products

• By all means please manufacture inferior  lousy crap I will be sure to buy plenty of it.
  Turn the 3D marketplace into Home Depot.
  Great idea.

Are you actually putting out feelers to see if you will be able to get stupid people to buy bad crap????????

Just have the balls to go ahead and do it.  See how well it sells.

______________________

"When you have to shoot ...

SHOOT.

Don't talk "

 

   - Tuco

 

Santicor's Gallery:

 http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115

 

that was...harsh...;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

A lot of the problem is that Poser's builtin tools are terrible.  Moving morphs into Poser for a rigged figure is immensely harder than it ought to be, for example.  There's other fun stuff like the amazing tumbling falloff zones bug in adjusting joint parameters.  Quality of the content takes time, but the quality of the internal tools is terrible and makes it much worse.

My Freebies

I think these types of questions would be much better suited to the Content Creator's forums located here:

http://www.contentcreatorsguild.net/ 

I am happier to buy quality over quantity any day.  There are a handful of vendors that I have no reserves about buying their products at all when I see something I like, because I KNOW without a doubt that they have taken their time and have produced a good product.  Likewise there is another handful of vendors that I have to REALLY think long and hard about whether or not I will buy something because I have been burned in the past with cheap products.

Quote - I am happier to buy quality over quantity any day.  There are a handful of vendors that I have no reserves about buying their products at all when I see something I like, because I KNOW without a doubt that they have taken their time and have produced a good product.  Likewise there is another handful of vendors that I have to REALLY think long and hard about whether or not I will buy something because I have been burned in the past with cheap products.

I agree 100 percent with what you have said, even to the point I have an excel spread sheet that I keep. It lists hair, hair textures, clothes, clothes textures, buildings and props and body poses. I rate vendors just like in the review system in the marketplace or 1 to 5. Plus I make notes off to the side about that vendor if I ask questions and or point out errors and they reply or not. That all said, if I see an item from a vendor I have rated low that is unique, I will wishlist it and then watch the forums and or galleries for comments or images. And yes a vendor who I have rated low to start with can and do improve their craft and I do re-rate. Likewise I have products from vendors whom I rated high who I feel have rushed a product to market with flaws and they can and do get rated lower over time.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Well, I don't get good sales so I may just be deluded into thinking I make good products. Or it could even be that I spend little time marketing my stuff. Things were selling better back when I was in a merchant partnership but only because my merchant partner was heavily into the Poser/Renderosity crowd. But after our partnership broke up and our joint products were removed (as per my request), things slowed down for me alot. My only real successful product was my Custom Staff morphing prop but even that was about a one month sales burst that faded away. 

Anyway, I think I'll have to be more strategic with my product development so that I can still make quality products but in less time.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Oh, does anyone know how to set the morph dials so they can only be set to 0% and 100%?

How about setting morph dials so if one dial goes up they other dials go down? That might sound like something that requires Python and a knowledge of programming.

It takes a long time to create good products IMO. I do mainly textures and character packs and I can tell you that takes time to do right. Sometimes I see two or three products in a week or two from one vendor but I'm sure they work on several at a time and so release them close together. These products look like good quality. I work on two or three things back and forth sometimes. Right now I am working on three. :) Just work at your own pace and don't worry how long it takes, as long as you're satisified with the outcome, that's what counts.

Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
     BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.

>> Well, I don't get good sales so I may just be deluded into thinking I make good products.

One reason, I suspect, is because you have a very specific style that's utilized within a very narrow range. I took a look at your store offerings: while they're very well designed, they're also extremely limited in their usage and not exactly the kind of thing that lends itself to impulse buy. Just speaking for myself, I might not consider them until I had a need for that precise look -- and then I'd jump all over them.

I'm sure this is a quandry that affects all merchants, both here and in the Real World. But my recommendation would be to build up a series of WIPs to showcase what you're doing, then start a few threads to see what the public response would be. The top merchants do that, so no reason why you cant as well: Stonemason, for example, is almost unforgiving in tantalizing us for months on end with images of his latest flight of fancy.

But you have to enter into it with a sense of where you want to go. Too many merchants see what they think is a bandwagon and jump on it, while the top ones look longer range. Look at Darie's work, for example: I could buy any of that on the spot at any time (and I have) and know that I have a great product that I can use it for years if I so need to. That, to me, is the hallmark of a merchant that will get my attention: someone whose stuff lasts more than a style cycle at the Gap.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Quote - Oh, does anyone know how to set the morph dials so they can only be set to 0% and 100%?

How about setting morph dials so if one dial goes up they other dials go down? That might sound like something that requires Python and a knowledge of programming.

What is it you're trying to do, exactly? If you want one morph out of a number to be on, and all the others off, that sounds like an application for geometry switching. Let us have more details, anyway, within the bounds of commercial confidentiality. ;)

Maybe I should answer your original question, too. :-)

I make freebies and don't sell stuff, but I believe the principle is the same. I take as long as I think is necessary to make the thing to the best of my abilities, because I get pleasure from the process itself. I'm sure I'd be the same if I was a merchant - I wouldn't expect to sell enough to make a living at it.

(Tongue in cheek) One advantage of making freebies is that if the thing just won't work out perfectly, you can release something with flaws in it as long as people can work around them somehow. Of course, it's in your interests to declare those flaws up front. Nobody will complain if you warn them in advance that post-work might be required, for example. (Well, some might, but you can safely ignore them.) :)

Long story short, if you are doing this to make money...don't (it will never be worth it).
You should be creating because that is what you enjoy...making creations.

Make skimpy outfits for V4, no limits to that genre....though it confounds me as to why?

Comitted to excellence through art.

My personal opinion is this, you have a product you make, take the time to do it right or don't do it at all. As a vendor at another store, I take the time and make sure it is of good quality and works as promised.  Right now one of the products I am working on is taking me longer than I thought it would because I want the details right.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

yeah...we're not going to turn this thread into a sitewar. 

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I yanked my comment.....
BTW  the same site war exists on another thread right now, J

______________________

"When you have to shoot ...

SHOOT.

Don't talk "

 

   - Tuco

 

Santicor's Gallery:

 http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115

 

OK, thanks to everyone who replied. I appreciate the feedback and advice. In my products I always try to emphasise customisability mainly in the texture department. If anyone has actually bought any of my recent products they will know I include tutorials on how to customise the textures (or designs as per my 2d products). I think that the problem is that I'm not showing people that things can be customised in my promos. That might increase sales. Sadly, I am doing this for some sort of income so I might need to look for alternatives to my creative skills. Sigh....
I also split my time making some video tutorials and that's a bit tiring, too. You can check them out at http://www.youtube.com/user/MixMashCom if anyone is interested.

Although, I think maybe I'll give a few more products a try first. Skimpy outfits, huh? I think I might give that a go.

Don't worry about the morph question previously. I'll ask that in a new thread maybe. It's not really that important, though.

Thanks again to everyone for their feedback .

Cheers,
Paul

For what it's worth, since someone found my comment and link to be rude. It wasn't meant to be. I was merely pointing out that vendors at Content Creators would probably be more helpful to the original poster.

Yes, please move this thread if necessary but ONLY to the correct Renderosity related forum and not some forum on a different site.

dont know what you are referring to LostinSpaceman, but my comment that I yanked was bustin on CP. Hope you arent refering to me  ;-)

______________________

"When you have to shoot ...

SHOOT.

Don't talk "

 

   - Tuco

 

Santicor's Gallery:

 http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115

 

It's fine where it is, guys.  No worries.  Sheesh.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - dont know what you are referring to LostinSpaceman, but my comment that I yanked was bustin on CP. Hope you arent refering to me  ;-)

It wasn't in reference to anything posted here. I got PM stating my orginal comment might be coming across as rude to some people so I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't meant to be rude.

I think the very first post that started this thread may have been misinterpreted. I don't think simpler and less expensive means crappy. I think if you focus on what you are good at and what you like to do you can make a simple but high quality and useful item.

 

LukeA

My latest novel

about the crappy thing -  that is my reaction to somebody saying, basically : aw gee whiz  this Poser thing takes too long....maybe i should put less care and effort in, so I can $tart $elling more stuff, quicker.

where is the "nuance" that I am missing that makes the first post really any different than that?

Luke do you want to wade through a bunch of garbage from people who didn't really want to spend a lot of time on thier work?

______________________

"When you have to shoot ...

SHOOT.

Don't talk "

 

   - Tuco

 

Santicor's Gallery:

 http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115

 

Quote - where is the "nuance" that I am missing that makes the first post really any different than that?

The nuance is here, as I read it:

Quote - I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department.

(My emphasis.) A "simpler" product can be easy to make, but if it fills a previously unidentified need it can still be worth buying. Since it's simple, high quality is more readily achieved in a short timescale.

Maybe the word cheaper can be taken as a negative, but in the context of the whole post I think reflects on price only as the next words are "but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department"

Santicor, of course I don't want to wade through crap, that's why they have some degree of testing here. I was not addressing you rather the whole thread and really throwing my support behind the original poster. (And no worries, I often make posts like yours and need to edit and apologize for days on the forums :)

 

LukeA

My latest novel

mix_mash I checked out your store and your stuff looks really nice.

What takes you so long to complete a product? This might be an interesting topic for a thread, but I fear it would turn into a trashing of Poser.

I am new to Poser, and I love so many aspects of it, but I am absolutely stunned at the difficulty in getting content sale ready. Maybe I am spoiled by refined development tools and in the Poserverse you are still hand editing text files and back tracking numerous times in the creation process. I can model, uv map, and texture in no time but the whole process of getting my work ready for sale is an absolute time sucker. 

 

LukeA

My latest novel

Thanks Luke I appreciate your viewpoint on this.
Maybe the original post struck me the wrong way

that being said - I certainly would quit doing Poser if I thought it was a hardship that the work process sometimes  slow  and required a lot of effort.

this isn't like walking into a fast food joint and ordering fries, is it?

Are we truly an instant success and gratification society now? even as artitsts? at the cost of lowering the detail of the work?

I have posted too much here. Yes I was a little too harsh....It is my own fault for speaking my mind and I sorta wish I never said anything.

I am going to go back to work on learning how to do good renders now. I have nothing in the gallery yet because I am not happy that my renders still look amatueristic. The process of learning about the nodes in the material room is a slow process, but it does not bother me. I will post an image after I have worked hard and made something good.

______________________

"When you have to shoot ...

SHOOT.

Don't talk "

 

   - Tuco

 

Santicor's Gallery:

 http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115

 

Quote - mix_mash I checked out your store and your stuff looks really nice.

What takes you so long to complete a product? This might be an interesting topic for a thread, but I fear it would turn into a trashing of Poser.

It can vary from product to product but here's a small list of things that are regarded in the creation process:

Ideas and concepting
3d construction (also need to ensure that the polycount is fair and not too high)
Creating morphs
UV mapping
Importing and setting up in Poser
Creating textures
Setting up materials
Fixing errors in modelling, texturing and material creation
Rendering
Preparing custom tutorials
Promos
Setting up the zip (making sure the folders are all correct, doing the readme file, etc...)

Sometimes just coming up with ideas can take a while. Sometimes ideas can be too elaborate on paper so I need to compromise in the 3d design.

3d products take at least a minimum of 60 hours to make. 2d products usually take a minimum of 40 hours. But other things such as my personal life and the weather (I can't stand working in hot weather and neither can my computer!) keep me from working at a steady pace.
 
Right now I'm working on a simple Venetian mask with 50 custom designs. I'm also including all the basic alphas used to create the designs and a tutorial of sorts to help out with that so that people can create their own variations of my designs. All that for the minimum product price.

PS: Thanks for the compliment!

I hate working in hot weather too!

Saticor, I am glad you posted. Poser is particularly nasty to me because I am spoiled by game development tools where the time to create is maximized and the time to mess with tools and process is minimized. In that industry there are teams of programmers to make the content creation and integration as easy as possible for the artist, not so in this world :) Of course the investment seams more worthwhile on the surface, but I think if the developers of Poser really developed the tools and process for content creation using Poser they would see huge growth in the sale of Poser as people can more easly create stuff for it.

 

LukeA

My latest novel

*"......I think if the developers of Poser really developed the tools and process for content creation using Poser...... "

The damn morphing tool crashes me CONSTANTLY- and I have to start over

I am going insane

Maybe that's why my posts are sometimes  a bit too nasty.

The morphing tool has me wound up like a spring.

______________________

"When you have to shoot ...

SHOOT.

Don't talk "

 

   - Tuco

 

Santicor's Gallery:

 http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115

 

Quote - Does anyyone else feel like they take too long when they make Poser products for the marketplace?

I put alot of work into my products (even though it may not look like it) and the process is slow. I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department.

Does anyone else have this issue or at least feel like that?

It takes as long as it takes....

People work at different speeds and have different priorities.  As some have noted, very few people actually sell products for Poser as their primary source of income.  For the ones that do, they generally have built up a very good stable of products with decent residual sales and can afford the time it takes to create new and excellent products using their longtime experience as a Poser crafter.

I muck around with creating lots of things that work in Poser.  I can create a decent piece of clothing, mapped, grouped, rigged and tweaked a bit in fairly short order.  As a matter of fact, the quickest and least troublesome part of the entire process is creating the mesh and everything up until the point where it's time for fine tuning, morphs, testing and packaging (If I was going to distributed it.)  Those latter stages take many times longer than just getting the mesh into Poser, rigged and working, for me.  And texturing?  Meh.. I can dump a texture onto something like anyone but.. for it to be "good" takes a bit of work.  All in all, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the knowledge necessary to fine-tune .cr2s, pz files and materials/nodes after having started mucking around with creating things for Poser.  There's much more than meets the eye, that's for sure.  To do it "right" takes a great deal of experience and intimate knowledge of Poser.

IMO, and I hope everyone understands where I'm coming from, I wouldn't be upset if some producers took a bit more time on their products.  I do understand the need for cold, hard, cash.. everyone needs it.  So, desperate times call for desperate measures and sometimes, it just has to go out the door to the marketplace.  But, if any producer can spend that extra few hours or days tweaking their product, they should.  There is a cornucopia of mediocre items out there in Poserland and they far outnumber the ones of higher quality.  If there was less of a desparity of quality between the two, customers would be a lot more comfortable with making impulse purchases and trying new producer's wares.

Quote - *"......I think if the developers of Poser really developed the tools and process for content creation using Poser...... "

The damn morphing tool crashes me CONSTANTLY- and I have to start over

I am going insane

Maybe that's why my posts are sometimes  a bit too nasty.

The morphing tool has me wound up like a spring.

The Morphing Tool is evil...  Really.  It is.  It say's so in the manual in the Addendum under  "Evil Things We Thought It'd Be A Good Idea Not To Avoid Including In Poser"  It definitely has its uses but, IMO, they should be limited to very, very minor pose adjustments and quick fixes for poke-through issues.

Use a free 3D package like Blender, Wings3D or Anim8tor.  You can learn enough in any of these in a short amount of time to be able to produce your own morphs.  Hexagon, my favorite atm, costs money but, it's very, very easy to use.  With Hex, you could produce morphs "on the fly" in a matter of minutes with far more accuracy and control than the Morphing Tool and with a lot less headaches.  There's even a bridge for D/S if you use that package.

Morkonan  is there a problem transitioning Poser files to the free modeling programs like Blender -   and likewise, Blender files to Poser.....
I heard it was tricky  including the fact that Poser is scaled smaller  and this down the road causes problems. 
In other words,  would I need to worry   if my goal is  to  bring Poser or Daz figures into , particularly, Blender- do some major morphing, and then  bring these morphed figues  back to Poser7  to pose and render.

______________________

"When you have to shoot ...

SHOOT.

Don't talk "

 

   - Tuco

 

Santicor's Gallery:

 http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115

 

Blender is fine for creating morphs. Here is a quick run-through of my workflow.

1.       Load figure .obj from the geometries folder into Compose.

2.       Create  then save a joined and vertex mapped copy of the parts involved in the morph.

3.       Import that obj into Blender.

4.       Press the NumPad 1 key with the cursor in the 3d window.

5.       Press the s key and enter 4 or 5 as your scaling value.

6.       RMB click the figure to select it then press the NumPad . to frame the selection in the viewport.

7.       Enter sculpt mode and begin sculpting the morph or use proportional editing to move vertices into rough proximity for large changes then sculpt detail.

8.       When finished press the s key again and enter .25 if you scaled by 4 or .2 if you scaled by 5.

9.       Export the .obj.

10.   Open Compose and morph the parent figure.

11.   Use Poser’s Little Helper, Morph Loader in DAZ Studio, or the native Poser morph loading to add the morphs as included or INJ/REM files.

I use Compose in the workflow because it solves the nasty issues of exploding vertices of the imported morph data and separation at the edges between groups when using the smooth brush in sculpt mode.  Also you can save your joined and mapped meshes in a work folder and re-use them to make later morphs without having to repeat the entire setup process.

The downsides to Compose are that it only works properly under Java 1.1, 1.2 or the current 1.6 version and that it can’t handle the vertex count of a full G2 or Mill3/4 figure so you have to create separate groups for the body and head if you are making FBMs. (It was written in 1999 when meshes were a bit less poly heavy.)

If you want to use INJ/REM to load your morphs Poser’s Little Helper is easy to use and it’s free.

I have a tutorial available for download that more fully describes the process.

great tip lisa, I will look for your tut thanks

______________________

"When you have to shoot ...

SHOOT.

Don't talk "

 

   - Tuco

 

Santicor's Gallery:

 http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115

 

Attached Link: http://home.tir.com/~johnwind/Compose11.zip

Since we're way off topic anyhow... :-) Compose works fine for me under Java 1.5.0_07, and opens V4 without complaint. So I guess your mileage may vary, as always.

You can get it from the link...

Quote - Does anyyone else feel like they take too long when they make Poser products for the marketplace?

I put alot of work into my products (even though it may not look like it) and the process is slow. I was thinking of releasing simpler and cheaper products but I don't want to disappoint in the quality department.

Does anyone else have this issue or at least feel like that?

I most definately feel like that!!!

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - about the crappy thing -  that is my reaction to somebody saying, basically : aw gee whiz  this Poser thing takes too long....maybe i should put less care and effort in, so I can $tart $elling more stuff, quicker.

where is the "nuance" that I am missing that makes the first post really any different than that?

Prehaps when you crate your own content, and experience the pains of making it, the nuance becomes more visible. Much more visible.  When you make stuff, there's a constant consideration about ... am I providing quality, or getting into little bitty details that noone will care about (an overkill).  At least that's how the initial post comes across to me.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote -
I hate working in hot weather too!

Saticor, I am glad you posted. Poser is particularly nasty to me because I am spoiled by game development tools where the time to create is maximized and the time to mess with tools and process is minimized. In that industry there are teams of programmers to make the content creation and integration as easy as possible for the artist, not so in this world :) Of course the investment seams more worthwhile on the surface, but I think if the developers of Poser really developed the tools and process for content creation using Poser they would see huge growth in the sale of Poser as people can more easly create stuff for it.

Better tools would be huge help!
While it's they're not perfect, I've been very impressed with DAZ's recently released Content creation tool add-on for D|S

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - Morkonan  is there a problem transitioning Poser files to the free modeling programs like Blender -   and likewise, Blender files to Poser.....
I heard it was tricky  including the fact that Poser is scaled smaller  and this down the road causes problems. 
In other words,  would I need to worry   if my goal is  to  bring Poser or Daz figures into , particularly, Blender- do some major morphing, and then  bring these morphed figues  back to Poser7  to pose and render.

No, there is nothing terribly tricky about doing that.

They're based on wavefront .obj files.  If you can import those, you can import Poser meshes.  Scaling is not an issue if you have a program that can scale import/export.  Even then, using something like "Objaction Scaler" ( a third-party, free application, just do a google on it, I think it's at Morphography) you won't even need to worry about that.

The only "tricky" part is that "Grouping" breaks wavefront.obj meshes into separate, independent bunches of mesh within the same object.  So, for instance:

Let's say you want to turn V4 into an Ogre.  That can be done!  In fact, you can grab her mesh and import it into a 3D app using any number of tutorials.  It's easy.  The tricky part comes when you end up not having one contiguous object to deal with but a number of smaller, independent meshes called "head", "neck", "chest", "hip" etc...  They are all "V4" but they are no longer contiguous - Grouping has split the mesh.

There are ways to get around some of the problems that causes.  Saving the original UV coordinates from V4 then assigning everything to the same group, exporting a new model, working on it in the application and then reassigning the old UVs to it will allow you to use tools like "soft selection" across groups and you'll easily be able to get vertices to align with each other using specific tools.  You can use UVMapper Classic (it's free) to accomplish that.  BUT, that method won't give you one, contiguous mesh like some applications can - ZBrush, Mudbox ( I think) etc..   Those are "expensive" bits of software.

Can you import, work with and export useable morphs fairly easily?  Sure you can!  It's very, very easy to do.  However, it DOES take practice to get really, really good results.  But, anyone dedicated enough to start trying to do that can easily get "good" results in their first session with a 3D application and an imported Poser figure mesh.  No foolin'.. .it's easy.  Doing it "well" is what is difficult. :)

Quote - ...I have a tutorial available for download that more fully describes the process.

Blender can soft-select and sculpt across mesh groups in an obj without edge distortion where groups meet? ie: One contiguous mesh?  Or, do you still have to pay attention to mesh edges when sculpting/moving vertices?  (V4, not Milfigures)

I'd like to see your tutorial, if you would be so kind!

Quote - Since we're way off topic anyhow... :-) Compose works fine for me under Java 1.5.0_07, and opens V4 without complaint. So I guess your mileage may vary, as always.

You can get it from the link...

Same here.  I haven't had it give me any problems with meshes (V4) due to polycount that I can recall.  But, I have not used it in many months so, I could have forgotten something.

GAAH! Did I have the only version of Java 1.5 that Compose wouldn't play well with?!?:laugh:

No problems with group edges distorting if Compose is used  to create the vertex mapped contiguous mesh, regardless of modeling app.

Blender sculpt brushes - adjustable fall-off and limited use of textures as brushes. (Don't forget proportional editing is another option in Blender)

Turning back onto the thread topic now after the detour.

IMO....don't worry so much about the time to output ratio, if you're not generating a significant amount of your revenue from your efforts then concentrate on the quality/detail, relax and enjoy your hobby.

Simplification is fine so long as you maintain your quality standards considering the different requirements for stills vs. animations. Good quality simple meshes definitely have a place and use alongside the more complex detailed meshes.

just to say, there's a big difference between quality and complexity.  just as a for instance, that 50 texture thing would actually turn me off. why do you need to bloat my runtime?  is you model so complex to texture, 10 designs wouldn't do?  and 50 designs communicates mediocre to low quality compared to just 10.   personally, i consider simplicity a sign of good quality.  tired of products stuffed with lots of things i'd never use. 

so if you're asking whether you need to make your products total swiss army knives that do everything while not going below that level of quality, i personally feel and have observed that it's not tons of options that mark popularity or people's perception of quality.  it's how good your stuff looks and does it work easily.  just as an example, the Glamorous Collection was hugely popular when it first came out.  from everything i've heard, it works very, very well as dynamic cloth.  thing is, the dresses aren't UV mapped, don't have an edge, and the 30 different materials are five different types of material in 6 different colors.  it didn't, for instance, come with tons of different props, have UV maps and lots of different complex textures, there's no mention of morphs for fitting (larger sims well, but smaller really needs fitting just like real clothes) or versatile usage (it really matters how you start when you run a  cloth sim).  certainly no mention of different cloth room settings to go with each material type.

his newer products are more complex.  but the Glamorous Collection is the only one i remember seeing in multiple newsletters and stuff.

Quote - just to say, there's a big difference between quality and complexity.  just as a for instance, that 50 texture thing would actually turn me off. why do you need to bloat my runtime?  is you model so complex to texture, 10 designs wouldn't do?  and 50 designs communicates mediocre to low quality compared to just 10.   personally, i consider simplicity a sign of good quality.  tired of products stuffed with lots of things i'd never use. 

Absolutely true!  There is a Law of Diminishing Returns concerning included texture sets with products.  Why include 20 different texture sets in a product when the user will, most likely, stick with two or three for their entire experience of use with the product?  Give 'em the best three you can make instead.

Looking at your store your giving to much quantity for the cost. $5 for 15 is .33 cents each. Keep the quality and lower the quantity.. and frankly I think you need to raise your prices closer to what other people charge. Also, don't forget that 2d products at rendo get overlooked unless your doing some marketing yourself to get them seen.

www.Calida3d.com
Daz studio and Poser content creators

Something else to consider.. putting out products that are already vastly covered by freebies isn't a good marketing choice. (I was thinking about the weapon sets.) there are a ton of free swords, axes, ect out there, and putting out commercial content means you either have to make then dirt cheap to attract any business, or bunch a ton of them together to make the pack a worthwhile value.

Make unique quality content not already available for free.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

i'd actually put a codicil. there are tons of free weapons packs.  there are about 0 photoreal, detailed swords.  people won't pay a lot (if anything) for yet another set of weapons with basic textures.  promote 1 to 5 photoreal weapons with good details, and people will be drawn to them.

in general, i've seen out-of-the-box high detail work beat out versatility in terms of popularity just about every time.

Thanks for all that input. The thing is that with 50 textures people are attracted to different designs so there is no guarantee that if I were to release a product with less textures that I would get more customers based on those specific designs. If that statement doesn't make much sense it's because it's lunchtime here and I haven't eaten yet so my brain isn't thinking straight   ;-P

But thanks for all that other feedback. I do have low prices but only because I thought my products were being overpriced due to lack of sales.

I may consider creating some original characters in the future (probably non- human) which are unique and fun. I already have one in mind and have made a quick template already.

Like others have mentioned, try to be somewhat unique...tweak things your own way.

Comitted to excellence through art.

Quote - Thanks for all that input. The thing is that with 50 textures people are attracted to different designs so there is no guarantee that if I were to release a product with less textures that I would get more customers based on those specific designs.

 this is the same fallacy which makes most open source projects have bad interface design.  most people do not want more choice.  they want things to be simple and reliable.   they want have to think about fewer things, not more.  making them compare and evaluate 50 different things is like making them go through shopping all over again just to use your product.  remember the goal is to make a picture, not necessarily play with your product.

take Stonemason's stuff for example.  incredible, incredible work. if he used the same logic, he'd make 30 different types of textures and props and parameters so people could make the kind of city they wanted.  instead he just does his thing and everyone wants his style.

lots of designs grouped in one place like that generally makes a product look cheap, like a bargain bin of shirts at Target.  if you want your stuff to look like quality (i'm sure it actually is quality already)  a) trust your style to appeal to people and b) use lots of whitespace.  crowding is for cheap bulk stuff, lots of whitespace is for high quality items.  check out ads in magazines.  look at a Good Housekeeping or similar magazine, and then look at Bazaar or Vogue.  the simpler the product and its presentation, the more it costs and the more people are willing to pay.   almost always, the cheaper knock-offs show more complexity (where the other hides it) and feature more variety.

do a few things very, very well and present them in a striking manner.  this market is actually very like fashion in that merchants rather than customers tend to define style.

Talking from experience, I can tell you that simpler cheaper models are not the right way to go.

The reason for that is that they simply don't sell well.

So even though you spend less time making them, your income per hour is decreased because you have less sales.

My advice to you is, don't worry too much about the time you spend on a project. Just concentrate on making a stunning product, no matter how long it takes.

These "wow" models sell really well, and even though they take months to make, in the end, you will see that these models actually increase your hourly wage.

Another thing to keep in mind is that making stunning models will rapidely increase your customer base, and people will come back to look at your future products. You will not get this effect with average  models.

Quality is the way to make money in this business, even if it takes longer.
Shortcuts will only hurt your income and your reputation.

I hope this helps :)

Quote - ...Quality is the way to make money in this business, even if it takes longer.
Shortcuts will only hurt your income and your reputation.

I hope this helps :)

An excellent bit of advice!

Some thoughts...  (Sorry for the long post.  But, maybe it will help an artist that really desires to be successful and have others enjoy their work.)

3D "Art" is not a "quantity" game.  In fact, software isn't a quantity game and that's what 3D models are.  You can make as many copies of a product as you want, they're all exactly the same.  One product has a billion children who are all exact copies.  So, you can't apply a quantity principle on an individual product basis.  In fact, there are virtually no (private) return purchases of a product - Electronic media is not subject to return purchases.  You sell one product to one customer and that is IT.  That is all of that particular product they will ever buy from you.  Never again will they return to re-purchase that product no matter how much they like it - They already have it and it will not "wear out" like a real product.  For all intensive purposes for this discussion, it is a durable good.

What does that mean?  Well, that means that you must rely on more than an ability to mass produce one product.  You're not manufacturing copy paper where you can churn out truckloads of 20# paper and make it so inexpensive that people buy your product based on price-point.  In fact, competing on the basis of "price-point" is the very, very last thing any manufacturer of any product on the face of the Earth will ever want to do.  Ask any of them.  They don't "want" to compete on the basis of price.  It's just the nature of the beast that many are forced to do so.

So, if you can't compete based on production, will never have return purchases of the same item and competing on price-point will never, ever be desirable... what is left to you as the foundations for your business?  Well, it happens to be all of those "other" things that influence someone's desire to purchase your item over another's - Quality, Desirability, Uniqueness...  THESE are the foundations that MUST be chosen to base one's manufacturing practices on in this particular industry.

Some may say - "Morkonan, that is not true!  You can mass produce all sorts of things and rely on someone, somewhere, buying your goods simply because there are so many of them.  Eventually, someone will buy something you made!"  Well, that is true - You can churn out a complete model every hour and someone, somewhere, may stumble upon it and buy it.  However, that is not an effective strategy.  In fact, that is not much of a strategy at all in this particular business model.  Why?  Well, the answer is simple - It relies on chance.  Relying on chance is not "strategy."  Your returns for the investment of time will be much lower since they are entirely based on chance.  If there is a 1% chance someone in the universe will stumble upon a model of yours (a very, very high chance indeed!) then you'll get a 1% return on your time.  GG you.  Can you be sucessful with that?  Sure.  Will the effort for that success be something desirable for you?  No.

Quality, Desirability, Uniqueness - These are the principles that must guide any effective producer in this market.

Quality helps to insure repeat purchasers of your products.  Note that I use the plural here.  People are not going to return to purchase "ZOMGZ AWESOMEST POSER ITEM EVAR!" from you.  But, they may be more comfortable purchasing "ZOMGZ AWESOMEST POSER ITEM EVAR  #2 VERSION!" because of their experience with your previous work.  Quality also influences "word of mouth" sales.  If the subject of your product comes up in a conversation, higher quality will lessen the likelihood that someone will say "lolz that thing sux.."  Believe it or not, people want to be "proud" of their purchase choice.  If they feel like they were ripped off, they'll take it personally.  However, if it is a high-quality item, they'll also take that personally and congratulate themselves on making a "smart" purchase decision.  They'll let everyone know how savvy they were buy telling them of the quality of your product, how pleased they are with that and letting everyone know how smart they were for purchasing your product - Everyone WANTS to be in the "Cool Guys Club That Bought The High Quality Stuff."   If many people recognize your products as being of high-quality or, frequently associated with high quality by your customers and the user base then, any product you produce will be of "implied quality" automatically.  You can NOT force your products to have a reputation for "implied quality" very easily.  Most of that time, that sort of benefit is earned... not created.
**
Desirability** - What do people want?  Do they want another mini-skirt?  Seriously?  Do they want a tube dress that has 30000 different textures that comes with it? 

Or... Do they want spaceships to make neat renders with? Fantasy armor to deck out their favorite RPG characters?  Business suits and casual wear for commercial renders?  Restaurant scenes for making employee training materials? Accurate internal organs for science classes?  Industrial settings for workplace safety training?  Shaders for special effects?  Utilities that help them organize their collections, python scripts that make using the software easier.. and on and on and on..  

See the difference?  Desirability will be determined by the market you are in.  In this market, another mini-skirt is already a losing proposition.  In order to determine desirability, you have to know the market and see what it has and figure out what people actually want to buy.  In other words, you have to "feel the pulse of the marketplace."  You need to KNOW what people want.  Of course, there are ways to influence that.  That's called "Marketing."  Marketing is a way to force people to want something without them discovering you're forcing them to want it.. :)  That's a different subject altogether for the purposes of this post.

Uniqueness - Right now, there are five hundred and fifety five thousand, two hundred and ninety nine tube-shaped miniskirts designed for V4 for sale or offered for free at different 3-D marketplaces... or, something close to that number.. probably..    Remember that discusion about "quantity" and "chance" above?  Yeah, every single one of those manufacturers of mini-skirts is relying very heavily on simple chance because, quite literally, the marketplace is flooded and very few factors will be able to influence sales due to heavy competition.  Quality can help influence it but, considering the vast number of mini-skirts out there, Desirability to purchase that product will be very low.  What will help to influence sales?  Uniqueness, that's what.  If you can manufacture a unique, tube-shaped mini-skirt for V4 then go for it.  But, the odds are you're not going to be able to put much of a unique style on a simple tube-shaped mini-skirt that hasn't already been done.

So, your best bet is going to be to manufacture something in such a way that it immediately stands out as being Unique.  After all, people don't want to buy the same blue bucket every day no matter how much they love blue buckets.  They would really, really love to have a different looking blue bucket.  Your mission, should use choose it, is to manufacture the most unique blue bucket possible!  Your blue bucket will stand out immediately from the legions of other blue buckets and demand the attention of the customer simply because it is "Unique."  Sure, your blue bucket must remain blue and it must still be a bucket in order to appeal to blue-bucket-buyers.  However, if it is unique, you will significantly increase the odds that it will gain attention and sell.  Gaining attention, catching the customer's eye, is the first Law of selling anything.

IMO, these three ideas must be used by every manufacturer in this particular market if they are to be successful.  With very few exceptions, every top-seller in this market applies these rules to their products.  (The very, very few exceptions are "niche market producers/drivers" but, I'm not going to get into that in this post.)

( favarel, I want to use your store as an example of what I discussed in my above post.  My apologies for taking such liberties.  However, your excellent items are easily seen to be demonstrative of the principles I mentioned.)

To others:

If you are interested in the principles I discussed above, you will may find the following "Case Study" beneficial.

Let's look at faveral's store.  http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=4&userid=57980

Well, at first glance, it doesn't seem like much, does it?  He has TWO items for sale.  If one was simply judging the worth of a product based on how much the manufacturer has produced, one may not pay much attention - After all, it is common to think that "He who has a lot to sell must have a reason to sell a lot!"  Unfortunately, that is not always the case.  K-Mart has a lot to sell.  WalMart has a lot to sell.  But, their sales are based on price-point and saturation, amongst other things.  In THIS market, the Poser market, those principles simply don't apply.

So, let's apply what I mentioned above to favarel's items.
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=4&userid=57980

Quality - Click on either of the two items.  What do you see.  Immediately, you see a very high-quality render of one of the items in the set.  Because of that high-quality render, you are going to immediately get a bit of "implied quality" associated with the rest of the products.  In fact, the renders are so excellent and the way the product is displayed, you're going to be drawn into clicking on the other pictures just to see what else is hidden behind the curtain.  You will not be disappointed when you do that!  The quality of these products is very evident.  The texturing and modeling is superbly represented in these sample images and obviously of very good quality.  One can be reasonably sure that anyone who produces products that can look as great as these would, most likely, pay similar attention to the quality of things we can't see concerning this product (the actual mesh, how it works in Poser, etc..)

Desirability - There may be some question here concerning desirability.  After all, not everyone needs a canoe or various trapping items.  HOWEVER, because of the way that the products have been displayed and because of the obvious quality, there is another force at work here - Marketing!  The quality of these items and their Uniqueness (discussed below) heavily influence a desire to actualy "want" these items.  Sure, you may not have a use for them right now.  But, what if favarel "creates" a desire for that use simply because of the quality and presentation!  That's a good thing for everyone!  If he is successful in creating a desire for his items, then he will be giving enjoyment to others and reaping the rewards of serving the customer.  Favarel has also created something that has high-desirability in a nich-market.  Look at that canoe!  If you needed a primative canoe, where are you going to go?  Favarel, that's where!  Look at those bucksin knives and sheaths!  What about those pelts!  If you had a desire or a need for something like that already, favarel's items would be at the top of a very short list!  There are certain advantages in smaller demand markets and being at the top of the list of desirable products in that market is always the best place to be.  If anyone needs wicker baskets, pelts, a nice primative canoe, buckskin pouches/sheaths, etc.. Favarel is going to stand out from the crowd.

Uniqueness - I have never seen tanned pelts that were anything more than a primative with a texture on it.  These are unique!  Look at those buckskin knives!  How many are out there to begin with and how many have that particular look?  Look at the fringe on those.  How about that powder-horn?  It's awesome and even has a small dummy-chain for the cap!  Most powder horns are nothing more than a horn.  What about that tanning hoop?  How many tanning hoops do you see out there and do any look as good as that?  Who else has done both Beaver AND Bear traps? !!  Unique?  There's "unique" stamped all over favarel's items!  These aren't cookie-cutter mini-skirts.  These are very uniquely produced items.  For instance, look at the baskets.   They're not all simple cylinders!  They have shape and form that are unique.  Odds are, if one of favarel's baskets is in a render, someone who is familiar with his products will recognize it as being his - It is unique.  Favarel did a musket as well.  But, it's not just a musket!  In fact, that's a Kentucky Musket (Also known as a Kentucky Long Rifle.)  THAT gun is the symbol of the Pioneer in American folklore and history.  He didn't just do a standard musket.. he did a Kentucky Long Rifle AND provided the horn and bullet bag.  Unique is stamped all over these products.

See how that works?  Favarel's items may be esoteric but, they are highly desirable in that market, of obvious quality and very, very unique.  There is -

an attention to detail (influences uniqueness and quality)

an obvious focus on product quality (influences quality, desirability and uniqueness)

a very demonstrated "knowledge" of what his potential customers would desire in those niche product packages (awesome Kentucky Musket favarel! ) - many items are included in these packages others may not have thought about including in the same way (influences desirability and enhances quality and uniqueness as well)

In short, favarel has nailed all of the primary principles I discussed above.  He is perfectly in-tune with what any producer should be aware of in this market.  So what if he has only a couple of items?  That is up to him.  But, I guarrantee you that if anyone out there starts looking around for anything in the genre favarel has chosen to produce for, they will WANT to buy his products as soon as they see them.

Great products favarel! 

Just wanted to throw my two cents in here.  I agree completely with your original concern.  I've thought often about more efficient ways to get things done so that the process is more streamlined and my time will start to = enough $ to make it worth it. 

As many people in this thread who said they take quality over quantity - well I think that might be great in ideal but it doesn't seem to be the way it really works.  There is a vendor partnership here on Rendo for example that sells numerous items.  They are constantly one of the top vendors and put out many different pose and scene and character packs.  Maybe as many as one a week sometimes.  They are all horrible (except for the character textures).  The scene sets always come with the same recycled textures as the ones before - minor changes.  The pose sets are almost unusable.  - Yet they all sell like crazy.

People in this thread might digress but - someone is buying those products.  and someone is buying a whole crapload of them.

Me myself - well I don't want to go down in quality at all, but I do need to find more efficient and organized ways to work so that my time is better utilized when I do work.  

Also people are always saying on the forums how there isn't much unique out there.  But when something unique is created it only sells very few copies to those few who are interested in that niche.  Swords fairies and big boobs are where it's at.  So watching top sales for a month or so to see exactly what items are selling most is probably a good idea. 

In the end everyone wants everyone to be the great samaritan of vendors.  Put in 400 hrs of work for 400$ is something that is just outright expected.  To me that's just not good business sense.

I am:  aka Velocity3d 

Quote - Just wanted to throw my two cents in here.  I agree completely with your original concern.  I've thought often about more efficient ways to get things done so that the process is more streamlined and my time will start to = enough $ to make it worth it. 

As many people in this thread who said they take quality over quantity - well I think that might be great in ideal but it doesn't seem to be the way it really works.  There is a vendor partnership here on Rendo for example that sells numerous items.  They are constantly one of the top vendors and put out many different pose and scene and character packs.  Maybe as many as one a week sometimes.  They are all horrible (except for the character textures).  The scene sets always come with the same recycled textures as the ones before - minor changes.  The pose sets are almost unusable.  - Yet they all sell like crazy.

People in this thread might digress but - someone is buying those products.  and someone is buying a whole crapload of them.

Me myself - well I don't want to go down in quality at all, but I do need to find more efficient and organized ways to work so that my time is better utilized when I do work. 

Quantity versus quality DOES work however, as I noted in my posts, do you want to expend the effort as an individual artist?  It takes time for one person to make a product even if that product is crap.  Two people might be a little easier and more efficient.  Three are better and so on and so forth..  If you have the time, you can certainly try to compete based on chance.  Millions of companies do that successfully.  Everything from household bleach to canned corn is embroiled in a commodity market heavily influenced by outside forces including chance and price-point - the two most unpredictable and undesirable strategies there are.

Quote - Also people are always saying on the forums how there isn't much unique out there.  But when something unique is created it only sells very few copies to those few who are interested in that niche.  Swords fairies and big boobs are where it's at.  So watching top sales for a month or so to see exactly what items are selling most is probably a good idea. 

You're right - Everyone likes swords, sexy fairies and boobs.  Well, they like what they imply at least.  BUT, what if you're the "best sword-wielding big-breasted fairy" producer in the market?  Which is better; being one of the bajillions of sword-wielding-big-breasted-fairy" producers or being the top producer of the steaming heap in that genre? 

Quote - In the end everyone wants everyone to be the great samaritan of vendors.  Put in 400 hrs of work for 400$ is something that is just outright expected.  To me that's just not good business sense.

I agree.  So, in order to avoid that you have one of two choices - Quantity or .. something else.  The "Something Else" I already discussed.  But, there is something I didn't discuss and that is marketing.

Let's face it, most online marketplaces don't market your products, they sell them.  In fact, that's all most businesses in the world do - Sell other people's products.  The successful ones develop marketing campaigns together with their vendors.  The marketplaces for Poser do this only with a select few of their top producers OR their own product (high profit margin) lines and that's exactly what businesses in the "Real World" do as well.  If you're not already a top-seller, it's likely you won't get that extra help.  Yeah, it's a vicious cycle but, that's the way it works here and that's also the way it works in the outside world.

A while back ago I mentioned how terrible some of the product renders were.  In fact, some of them are actually detrimental to the product itself.  Bad renders = Bad impression.  But, I received several "poo poo" responses and "NO U!" sort of feedback as people defended the "most common denominator" approach towards selling their product.  The response was "I want the customer to see the quality the average person would get with the products."   I hope I don't have to explain what that truly means but, if anyone reads this and doesn't recognize that, I'll go ahead and say it - 99% of the Poser community's renders are crappy.  If you want to show the worst your product will ever look then follow that trend.  However, as a potential buyer, I want to see the BEST that product will ever look. I can make anything look like crap but I can't make something crappy look outstandingly good!  There's only so many silk purses one can make out of the piles of sow's ears.

This goes hand in hand with marketing - The first thing anyone ever sees of your product is the render.  In fact, that is ALL they can see.  If you insist on bad renders then you are putting out bad marketing materials.  As a producer, it's your responsibility to show the potential customer the best they can hope to achieve with your product.  Otherwise, they won't know the true value of your work.  The easiest and most effective way to begin marketing products appropriately is to start out with an appropriate and quality presentation of the product including any features that make it stand out from other products of the same type.

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders for what is practical as a producer of products.  IMO, if you want to keep the quality of your products high and maximize your efforts, the next step is focusing on Marketing.  For a few bucks a month you can get a website and pile renders and information about your products into it.  You could even use free sites.  You can also announce your products on other websites, visit their forums a few times a month and post a render of one of your products.  Most of the top-sellers no longer have to do a heck of a lot of footwork-marketing.  But, breaking into those ranks, they definitely had to do at one time.

Marketplaces don't market products, they sell them.  Only in a few instances are people's products actively focused on for marketing efforts.  That expenditure of effort is limited - The marketplaces only have so many resources to devote and they are going to devote it to what they are reasonably sure will sell.  It's up to the producers of products to not only produce quality products that people want to buy but to also actively market those products.  Handing something to someone else and asking them to sell it "for you" is another way of relying too heavily on chance, IMO.

Edit - I checked out your blog and the links there.  You're on the right track.  What you may want to do is mix-up your product line just a little bit.  Why?  Because, if you only ever produce blue-buckets then only people interested in blue-buckets will be familiar with your products.  I would suggest making a couple of items outside of the genre you normally work in as "hooks" to get people recognize your name in other circles as well.  Also, bump up the exposure of your products on your blog.  Maybe even throw some renders on "that other place's forums."  (I haven't been there in awhile and don't know what their policies are though.)  Something else  you might be able to do : Ask your primary seller what possibilities there are in getting involved with a marketing campaign.  Basically, ask them that if you put the effort into producing an ZOMGZWTFTHAT'SAWESOME! product, will they go to bat for you and partner on marketing it?  If you have to give up some profit margin to get them to do so then DO it.  The exposure is worth a few percentage points.

i never said unique.  i said trust your style.

the Poser economy works on people buying about 10 to 100 times more than they actually use.  do i think Stonemason's stuff is bought only by people who work in the same style?  i don't even think that's possible.  people want to purchase his style.  as they do Aery Soul's.  their sets have a lot of detail and quality, but i don't think they ever release with more than 3 textures.  once again, people like and trust their styule. 

if you have confidence in your style, refine it, and market it well, they'll want your style, too.  but that isn't the same as talking about what to make.

i'll go back to that Vogue and Bazaar vs. Good Housekeeping basis.  you could decide to do a suburban kitchen set.  sell different appliances and food and stuff.  it would be unique, could be detailed with lots of features, and very impressive overall.   but i'd lay down money it wouldn't be as popular as  series of very well done and well presented dresses. i'd bet that even with out the market domination, 9mbi's dresses are more popular than the Great House series at DAZ.  because pretty girls are used in the bulk of all visual art, and certainly most modern works, where kitchens and living rooms are rare.  if you spend time on high quality scenery and props, and they're not of a sort of generic usage, you're going for a niche. you can dominate a niche and do well, but it's a lot harder than just doing mainstream well and in your style.

that said, i think it's probably better to make what you love than what everyone else does, because then you're always pleased.   personal fulfillment and happiness aren't the same as success at business. 

as for the artist jjroland is talking about, that's basically what i called the bargain bin at Target.  Target and Walmart and Costco are very successful stores.  Kmart, however, went bankrupt for a while.  if you go for that model, you have to be careful, because it's easy to go from being the junk everyone needs all the time to the junk no one needs anymore. 

but you need to promote yourself.  heavily and well.

examples of people i've seent who've done this recently: gizmee and chexm1x.  gizmee's product is a simple pair of stockings. chexm1x is making sets of jewelry and props, and if they followed the rule of complexity, he'd only have one set and it would have a lot more options than each of them do.  that said, both are making products for V4, both use them consistently in their galleries, which are of high technical quality and not rendered in Poser, and both publish images very frequently.

they have particular styles, display them all the time, and promote their products as they publish their works.

this conversation is beginning to conflate whether to make a mask or not instead of what to include in a mask product and how to market it..  all i'm suggesting is that your product will look worlds more interesting and appealing if it has 5 great, photoreal designs that you think are strongest, have fine details, and are built  to be high-quality and versatile  (like implementing the designs as masks that allow material changes), than if you try to make your one mask everything to all people with 50 different designs.

Quote - ...that said, i think it's probably better to make what you love than what everyone else does, because then you're always pleased.   personal fulfillment and happiness aren't the same as success at business.  ...

One of the things I always recommend is "passion."  Be passionate about what you do!  Nobody ever got anywhere as an entrepreneur without passion and succeeding in a very competitive environment is a lot more enjoyable and a lot easier if you are passionate about what you do.

If you don't enjoy your work, your work will reflect that.  If you enjoy your work and are passionate about it, your work will reflect that as well.  

i'll add to that.  people always say if you follow your passion, you'll be successful.  that's true and it's not.  you'll be successful if you define success as making yourself happy first.  if you define success as being popular.... well, you're mom was wrong.  just being yourself won't always get people to like you.  but it will mean that the people who like you really like you and not a shallow reflection of themselves. 

sometimes what you like to do and what's popular will come together.  sometimes it won't.  we all do some accommodating to fit in, and how much you want to do that is up to you.  i think the downside to being a part of an online community is how strong the pull is to do stuff that makes you popular.  there's dozens of ways in which score is kept in terms of popularity.  just keep in mind that it's as hard to try to achieve popularity by fitting in as it is to do it by excelling at your own thing. there's no guarantees either way.

Quote - if you define success as being popular.... well, you're mom was wrong.

Best advice ever :)  I'd be tempted to use it as a sigline quote if I had the room left ;)

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I'd pay a little higher for good quality. It's gotten to the point where I'm offering payment to make the clothing I'd like. I'm scouting for good modelers now.. especially for a specific project that I have in the works.

Btw so NOT into that fantasy/fairy stuff.

To Morkonan and Cobalt dream:  very practical and well said advice in your posts.  A lot of merit in what was said there, definitely stuff for all of us vendors to consider!

I am:  aka Velocity3d