Okay so briefly, what I want to accomplish is a sort of ground hugging fog effect in Poser 7.

I've spent several hours playing with the atmosphere effects in the materials tab, and I can make fog be in the distance, up close, and even make it start above ground.

Is there some setting which will define the maximum height of the atmosphere effect? Or is there a better way of making low fog?

For something like that, Nerd's Fog Tool is probably best. You can also try my free Fog plane, it's in Free Stuff.. WAYYY back. You could probably make something better with a few planes and ome procedurals nowadays. Same principle though :) - some semi-transparent planes. Much easier to control than the atmospherics in Poser. Those are cool WHEN they work, but it's too often a hit-AND-miss situation IMO L

Ah thanks Trekkie. I wondered if it would be easier using planes but hope (the bane of us all >.>) left me wondering if it might be that I was missing a simple 'make fog work' button somewhere. I'll play about with some planes now :P

Quote - For something like that, Nerd's Fog Tool is probably best. You can also try my free Fog plane, it's in Free Stuff.. WAYYY back.

I didn't know you had a fog plane! I'll have to look for that.

I do agree about Nerd's Fog Tool. I have that and have used it in 3 or 4 images in my gallery and absolutely love it.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

BagginsBill made a shader for a plane in the Rdna Node Cult Forum.

Sorry, I cannot remember the title of the thread at the moment.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

I'm thinking something like a turbulence node with displacement and transparency might do a swirling effect in more than one direction.

This is giving me ideas.. I'll have to experiment L

I'm assuming you want to use the Poser atmosphere and not some prop - is that right?

Something like this?

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Here's how I did it on the Poser Atmosphere. I adjusted this to 25 inches of fog. You can change the 25 to any number you want.

In that same node is a 5 connected to Clouds. That makes 5 inches of variation.

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...damn.

Well, fog goodness sakes!

BB to da rescue ................... again.

Nice one Bill.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Ooh neat!

What's the light setup in that one, BB? Lights AND atmospherics together always seem to be my biggest problem. As far as I can tell, the atmospherics are very depending on the RIGHT light..

Or am I wrong there, too?

Excellent, thanks guys. I'll mess about with this in the morning. I'm not to worried about using the atmospheric over props tho, props seem to equal faster renders while atmosphere makes more detailed fog, I guess its a toss up.

Thanks again for the help.

Now that's what I've been missing. Thanks bagginsbill. Works great.

I wonder if it can be animated by using the variations and changing height. Would be cool to ad windforce wouldn't it.

Okay so I've probably done something really stupid here, but for some reason copying all those setting from BaginsBill turned my render into the attached image.

Any idea's whats causing the massive white flare over the whole screen?

Ah, I was right. I had made a stupid mistake :P

At some point the cable between density and blender came unplugged. Attached render now the fog works, thanks VERY much for the help guys. =]

Quote - Ooh neat!

What's the light setup in that one, BB? Lights AND atmospherics together always seem to be my biggest problem. As far as I can tell, the atmospherics are very depending on the RIGHT light..

Or am I wrong there, too?

Correcto. Here is the brief answer. Poser atmosphere is invisible unless a light shines on it. It is not the same as smoke. If you shine a spotlight on the fog such that some parts are lit and some not, the unlit parts will disappear, instead of looking like darker, unlit fog.

I have not experimented to see if IBL counts as "a light shines on it". To answer that, somebody should try rendering with just a plain white IBL and see what you get.

I used my usual two-lights here. An IBL for ambience, and an infinite at somewhere between 60 and 100% - can't remember what value I used. I did not use GC.

--- long answer ---

I have not worked extensively with Poser atmosphere. I've done a few little experiments, but not sufficient to be authoritative. This is what I believe:

The effect is created by the internal assemblage of a series of parallel infinite planes.
(Could be bounded, not infinite, bounded by camera viewing frustum - not sure - would need to develop various tests involving mirrors to find out if the atmosphere extends in all directions.)

The atmosphere planes seem to be parallel to the ground plane. I.e. the normals are straight up in Y.

The atmosphere planes are spaced apart in proportion to the Volume_StepSize.
(When you use a higher Volume_StepSize, rendering is faster, and distinct planes of fog become visible.) I do not know what the units are, but it could be inches.

These planes are not shaded as a normal surface would be like the ground plane or a one-sided square. They are always 100% transparent, meaning that whatever is behind them is always rendered at 100% brightness. In addition, they generate some reflection of light themselves and this is added to the color derived from transparency. Normal shading would have the local surface reflection "blended" with the color derived from transparency. What I mean by that is if the fog were actually transparent/opaque the way other surfaces are, it could block the light from behind. Poser atmosphere cannot block. It can "white out" but that's not the same as blocking or opacity. That just means you can no longer see the values being produced as they are clipped at 1.0 - "hypercolors" if you've followed some other discussions of this phenomenon.

The strength of the locally reflected light is in proportion to the Volume_Density. I do not know what the unit is here. When Volume_Density is 0, there is no fog.

The color of the locally reflected light is in Volume_Color. As is common with many shader things in Poser, it is therefore reasonable to assume that the rendered color is actually Volume_Color * Volume_Density, i.e. if things were named the same as other things, this should have been called Volume_Value, not Volume_Density, similar to Diffuse_Color/Value, Specular_Color/Value, Reflection_Color/Value, etc.

As you might have guessed, if Volume_Color is black (i.e. numerically 0) then there is no visible fog.

Rolling all this up, the equation I believe to be the underlying math is as follows:

Letting T be the color behind the fog, i.e. the transparency effect, each layer of atmosphere yields:

T + Diffuse(Volume_Color, Volume_Density)

In my shader, I modulated the Volume_Density. I used a P node to find the position of the fog plane currently being evaluated. Specifically, I used the P.y value to find the height of it. The rest is simple math to make a linear gradient in Y with a unit-span of 4 inches. The reference value is 25 inches + 5 * Clouds, which means there's some variation in density based on height. You get a little puffiness, which is more realistic.

I also modulated the Volume_Stepsize. I did that so the virtual fog planes are no longer parallel. Basically, I applied some randomized "displacement" to the fog planes by modulating their spacing, also using the same clouds node. This helps break up the fog planes and make them less easily detected by the eye.

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Did another experiment. The Volume_StepSize changes when you select different Poser Display Units. So it is in PDU, but the value is not the spacing between the planes. Looks like about 1/4 of the value is used to space the planes. When I put .1 PNU or 10.32 inches, and render with a prop of that size, the prop seems to span four fog planes.

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Just when you thought Doc wasn't looking ... :biggrin:

Quote - Did another experiment. The Volume_StepSize changes when you select different Poser Display Units. So it is in PDU, but the value is not the spacing between the planes. Looks like about 1/4 of the value is used to space the planes. When I put **.**1 PNU or 10.32 inches, and render with a prop of that size, the prop seems to span four fog planes.

Hmmm ........... 0.1 Pnu = ~10 inches
Looks AWFULLY close to 10 DGS inches, n'est pas? :lol:
Sorry Bags ... couldn't resist.

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Heheh, Geep.

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Some peeps* just don't know when to quit, do they Bill? :lol:
Glad you took it in the spirit in which it was given.
You do excellent work and are a real credit to the community here at R'osity.
Thanks.

like Dr Geep

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I realize this comes in a little late, but have you found the parameter or setting(s) that wil ladjust the height(y axis) of the fog?

Eddy

In my screen shot Mar 21, 2009, 4:13 pm, I marked where you control the height and variation in height. Does it require more explanation?

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Not at all, I just didn't bother to THINK as usual. :scared:

Eddy

Sorry to re-visit this old thread, but I was wondering if it's possible to make this fog "glow-in-the-dark"?

This is what I've got now, along with my settings (Poser 7)

Project

Settings

Eddy

I am not aware of a way to make the volume become self lit, requiring no light source at all.

However, glowing is perceived as emitting more light than arrives. All we have to do is make it blast out a lot more than the the light that reaches it. So then you could turn the lights way down and turn the volume way up.

Here's how - just plug a Math node into Volume_Color, and put a number bigger than 1. If you want it to be 100 times brighter than the light would normally produce, put 100 in there.

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In this render, the light is only 1% intensity, but the fog is 100X more reflective.

After posting this, I noticed that there are shadows from the figures affecting the fog luminance. If you're using this technique for low light trigerring a glow, you may want to disable shadows.

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I tried this as well, and I had my light at 0.5%, and Math node at 100.

This is kind of a nifty trick if you want fog in real low light settings.

Poser 10

Octane Render

Wings 3D

I need to try this with the envsphere

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Hmmm apparantly this does not work with the envsphere setup.

Does it need a specific light not in the default envsphere lighting?

(I have one infinite light, and the ibl from the envsphere.)

Also, what do you change on the envsphere to keep the light from it, but not have the sphere render as the background?

(Probably a stupid noob question)

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Quote - Hmmm apparantly this does not work with the envsphere setup.

Does it need a specific light not in the default envsphere lighting?

(I have one infinite light, and the ibl from the envsphere.)

Also, what do you change on the envsphere to keep the light from it, but not have the sphere render as the background?

(Probably a stupid noob question)

I'm happy to not be the only one who want to know how to obtain this. :)

I'm actually getting it to work after perusing BB's descriptions. I'm getting th fog how I want, and am experimenting with the height.

The only thing I'm seeing is the fog at 100% on the envsphere with very little top grading.

I'm sure there must be a way to use the envsphere for lighting but not have it in the final render, but haven't figured out that magic combination yet.

BB's numbers captured were for standard units, not poser native units, so some of the numbers have to be dialed down as a result.

Once I have something that looks right, I'll post the image results. I need to go over the env sphere thread, and find out how to use it properly for lighting but not for background.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Here's the atmos settings I'm using (using poser units)

I'm going to reset the scene though and try again, because I don't think I'm getting ibl lighting from the envsphere. if I remove all lights, the envspere does not light the scene at all. The rendered scene is supposedly with the envsphere with a image for the light, and one infinite light.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Ok, more testing, and apparantly ibl lighting from envsphere does NOT provide light so atmosphere shows up. You must have a light in the scene. I suppose you could fake it though plugging the same ibl image used for the sphere into the light color and brightness though.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Hopefully BB will read these new comments and reply back.

It doesn't appear that poser atmosphere reacts at all to idl.

So you can either use the envsphere and its light, and not have atmosphere, or you can add additional lights for atmosphere effects.

I would think that atmosphere would react to idl lighting, but I'l be hanged if I can get it to work.

Maybe BB has more voodoo magic up his sleeves for this?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

The setting for invisible light emitter (i.e. envsphere supplies light but you can't see it) is in Properties: Visible in Camera=off. This is a new property introduced in P9/PP2012.

Re Atmosphere lit by indirect light, I imagine SM has said nothing about it and done nothing about it to make it work.

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It could be an oversight that they were not aware of till now. I'll submit a bug report ticket, and see if I get any bytes on it.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

The volume atmosphere in Poser is just a handy convenience for procedurally creating a bunch of planes and then applying a transparency shader on them that ignores normals and just uses the amount of light as input to the shader.

Well, you don't have to use that. You can use actual geometry.

Here I experimented with some parallel (with the ground) planes and a nice shader.

What do you think?

Oh, it is lit by one infinite but, being a prop, it can be lit by IDL.

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Spooky....

Quote - The volume atmosphere in Poser is just a handy convenience for procedurally creating a bunch of planes and then applying a transparency shader on them that ignores normals and just uses the amount of light as input to the shader.

Well, you don't have to use that. You can use actual geometry.

Here I experimented with some parallel (with the ground) planes and a nice shader.

What do you think?

Oh, it is lit by one infinite but, being a prop, it can be lit by IDL.

That might be worth including in your available envsphere downloadable goodies. If it works with IDL, you'd think that procedurally created planes would work as well.

Does the same atmosphere shader work with that, or did you cobble up something different?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I cobbled. I constructed my planes without UV mapping, and instead made each layer have a different V value. I took advantage of this to know where I am in the stack, instead of using a P node. It made things easier because then I could scale the height of the stack and not have to change the shader.

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I dunno....that sounds like some of that BB voodoo magic trickery again to me!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

How many layers did you make, and did you save the prop with its material? I'd like to tinker with this.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

It looks very tiled to me.

The ground has a tile texture on it, under the fog, so you can see what the fog prevents you from seeing.

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Doh! I should have known better, looks good then.

Can you upload your fog for download, BB?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I will when I have time. I'm working 13 hours a day and not at home.

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Completely understand. Remeber to take some downtime for yourself as well!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Hey BB.. any chance of you uploading your ground fog prop before you forget how it worked or where everything is?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

I'm on it. I was looking for it yesterday to upload it but I couldn't remember the file name. LOL

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I lost it. Made it over again from scratch.

I really don't keep stuff anymore - too much to keep.

Remove the .txt extension. Inside is a prop and a PNG - drop it into a runtime of your choice.

The material should be pretty straightforward. The Clouds node literally runs it.

Remember, the planes are mapped V = 0 for the bottom plane, and V=1 for the top plane. Don't try to use images with them - they won't work.

This is not a UV mapping I would choose if Poser properly supported UVW mapping - I'd use W. But I can't.

I use the V value to make a gradient in brightness, and to change the density.

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Here's a quick render, not using IDL. It renders really slow with IDL, but it does work.

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Adjust the variation in density with the Cloud Gain value. I have it at .99 for extrame clumpiness. Decrease that for a more even distribution.

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Here is gain = .5

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Awesome, and thanks! ;)

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

From top down this looks good, but from waist high, you get horizontal "stripes" from the fog strips.

I thought originally you were using vertically oriented polys, and adjusted height with the shader? This might work better from a typical render perspective.

Render times though are really much too high for practical use. I even tried removing ever other poly layer starting with the bottom one (Which really wouldn't be needed anyway) and rendertimes were still problematic.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Yes parallel planes always make stripes when you view them at a shallow angle.

A combination of horizontal and vertical can be better at certain angles, but worse at others. Sometimes totally random polygons works better.

It's not possible to get the best results from a generic fog prop based on a single pre-defined mesh. You can always improve on that. What you really want is to construct one based on the actual camera position and angle.

And render times do go up real bad with IDL. Not so with IBL or self-lit.

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ground fog looks good IMVHO. now one can try renders of cars with undercarriage light panels to see how it affects the fog, unlike poser atmosphere.

.

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Odd that the headlights didn't get picked up at all.

The high render times though make it unuseable for me. A render with just the fog and one imported untextured prop took more than 2 hours, and I stopped it, abbout 3/4 way through.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

IDL doesn't pick up headlights - anything that subtends a small angle is a tiny contributer. Remember, diffuse light from any given point came from a hemisphere visible from that point. A headlight even from a few feet away is nothing - barely contributes.

This is not proper math, but tolerate me for a moment. The world around any given point (visible hemisphere) can be thought of as 90 degrees by 360 degrees. In "square degrees" that's roughly 90 * 360 or something like 32000 units of environment.

A nearby headlight might be roughly 8 by 8 or 64 units.

So the headlight occupies 64 / 32000 = .002 of the environment units that contribute to IDL. Is it any wonder then that the intensity of light from a glowing headlight prop is practically nothing?

You need focused, directed beams in this equation. I would add spotlights to perform that function. But I was merely trying out the fog on the neon undercarriage.

Meanwhile, my render was 5 minutes. Did you change my settings on the prop? I made sure to make it invisible to raytracing and not a light emitter. It's way too many transparencies for the raytrace engine to deal with.

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The first render I just loaded the envsphere, applied an image, loaded the fog, and then a simple branch prop. it started rendering at the lowest ray trace setting, and after 20 minutes, I took a nap (it was still pretty early in the morning)

I came back an hour and a half later, and saw it was still rendering, and killed it.

I then deleted every other plane, starting with the bottom most one, and then started the same exact thing on that, and killed it after a half hour or so.

I just checked, and it is still visible in ray tracing, and is a light emitter.. I'll toggle those off, and see what happens. I'm trying to set the view angle from something like say, 15 feet above the ground in a real world setting, BTW. Would vertical planes be better for something like that?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

(EDIT: I had ripped the geomoetry out and saved out that prop, and was using it. Apparantly poser file editor ignores those settings, and turns them back on even if they are off. In the original fog prop linked, they are in fact set to off.)

I was also using a large map, 5000 pixels wide, and I think that also really increased render times. A lower res map seems to render faster (But of course, the trade off is a very pixellated background.)

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Even with invisible in ray tracing and with light emitter off, and a lower res (1000 pixels wide) light map, I'm still seeing ungodly high render times compared with usual.

Here's a clip from it, since its still rendering an hour and a half later, 1171x960 (same as preview size)

It just finished as I typed this, and I started it before a shopping trip I've just come back home from.

I just takes far too long to be useful here.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

In the atmosphire shader what it the number for the cue depth end distance? I can quite read it.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

None of the screenshots of atmosphere settings in this thread use depth cue, so it does not matter.

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ok thanks!

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Just curious if the height of the fog can be manipulated for animation?

Eddy

Quote - Just curious if the height of the fog can be manipulated for animation?

LOL. Nevermind, back reading helps.

Eddy

Quote - Just curious if the height of the fog can be manipulated for animation?

LOL. Nevermind, back reading helps.

Eddy

Something is going on here. Even though I try to raise the fog height, it is still staying the same.

Fog plane

Eddy

Shot in the Dark, what are your units?

Did you mean to have .3 or 3 in your set up for Y?

Feet

.3

D'oh!

Eddy

Believe P uses internal units which are much smaller than feet so 3 represents a very small distance, might need to scale down the Y value.

I know this is a rather old post so I'm kinda slow in finding it. I find mr. baggins' fog atmosphere settings advice to be VERY useful and it works like it's supposed to (perfectly). However, that being said, I would like to ask for a small amount of advice for a possible modification setting. What I'm trying to accomplish is almost pretty much what's been outlined which is a fog/myst that covers the ground at a depth I can specify in the node parameters but with one exception. I would like to have the fog to have a clear circular area in the center where I can have my Poser character standing unobscured by the fog. I want the fog to be seen as seeming to creep inwards toward them as it engulfs the area around them and is closing in on their position. Is there some sort of transparency that can be added that could accomplish the circular region of "no fog area" that won't be looking too perfectly round at the eges but have a cloudy gradient between the denser are and the clear area?

Edriver - for which Poser version?

TrekkieGrrrl posted at 6:15AM Fri, 06 July 2018 - #4332783

Edriver - for which Poser version?

I'm using Poser 11

Boy - either I've lost my patience with rendering, or Poser 11 is a lot slower at this than earlier versions.

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Encroaching Fog.png

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When modulating the fog density, the fog planes (rather than volume as in SuperFly) are very obvious. This is one of the reasons I prefer SuperFly.

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Thank you for that bagginsbill, that looks like a fun effect.

////Okay so briefly, what I want to accomplish is a sort of ground hugging fog effect in Poser 7.

I've spent several hours playing with the atmosphere effects in the materials tab, and I can make fog be in the distance, up close, and even make it start above ground.////

Alternatively you can do it in Photoshop or Gimp, which have a lot of benefits over doing it in Poser as you can change it very fast and save you a lot of render time and also you have full control exactly where you want it. Also learning to use either of these will not be time wasting for pretty much anything you want to do in Poser as you can retouch you images here very easy.

Anyway should you want to try doing it this way, then there is a good tutorial here as well on how to do it in Photoshop, but im pretty sure you can do it in Gimp as well or something very similar. The reason I mention Gimp is that its free.

Add Atmosphere (Fog) To Your Images - Photoshop CS5

This might be easier.

Easily Adding Fog To Your Photos in #Photoshop

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Making low lying fog/mist