I noted the thread on what we all want for Poser 8, and some of the suggestions were pretty good.

But frankly I dont hold a lot of hope when a company like DAZ continually calls the shot on what characters are supported and what are dropped. Everyone oohs and ahhs about Girl 4, but that has to be one of the ugliest damn things I've seen in a very long time, an insult to Gossen's original, which had wit and style. This absurdity has been filtered through the V4 mesh and shoehorned into something it's just not, and the result is a mess.

But everyone's going "Wow! Girl 4! Really rocks!" when it's just a blowup doll missing the air nozzle and pump. Between this and the near non-stop slutwear, I really have to ask: Is this really where we want this program to go? Are all the requests for better shadows and better animations really worth it when the results are nothing but more and more crap better suited for... well, I was going to say MAXIM, but at least MAXIM has pretty girls in it. These chicks are better suited for HUSTLER, if that.

Guys, we deserve better. This last go-round of female figures from DAZ has been nothing but insulting, with overly complicated installations, even more complicated upgrades, and "support" that's a repetition of "how little we can get away with modeling and stil call it a fancy party dress". It's made this program and its users an embarrassment, because right now, all it is is some middle-age guy's fantasy wet dream: hot yo mama sluts he can bend to his every will.

Dont give me the crap about the "beauty of the female form". Girl 4 is not beautiful. Girl 4 is an absurd little piece of nonsense, and yet it's another step down the same road that DAZ has been dragging us since V2.

And we have let them because the "market" says so. Well, hate to break it to ya, but if all the market is getting is sleaze-wear for character meshes with breasts like bowling balls, then you dont have a whole lot of choice to work with, do you?

Yeah, it's been like this since Poser 3. No surprise. But funny how it seems we just get narrower and narrower in our vision of things, to the point where we've really hit the nadir with Girl 4. I honestly thought V4.2  "Elite" was bad enough, but this new one seriously takes the cake and slathers it all over herself.

There. Rant over. Have fun picking it apart, as I"m sure some will. But damn it, someone had to say it.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

I prefer the male figures.... never picked up the Elite morph set for V4.2

Got V4.2 primarily for the Vittorio4.2 by pdxjims.

Don't like the installation process in the new generation 4 figures from DAZ3D.  

Don't like the horrible updating process  - running that batch file inside the !DAZ filder under the Libraries folder, each time I need to "update" the figure.  ( Merchants defend it as almost a heaven-sent, but that's not being very user-friendly, is it now ? )

Somewhat amused that slutwear and almost-nekkid female warrior-wear are predominant on virtual shopshelves, yes indeed.

Not exactly feeling that I've been dragged along.  Would like to believe that I DO have some free will to decide whether I need or want any item for use with Poser ( or Daz Studio ).

Back to the issue of Girl 4 - OK, I got her gratis anyway.  Might as well see what I can use her for - someday, sometime, somehow....

Eternal Hobbyist

 

Compare for yourself.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

I for one like the Girl4,V4.2, A4, M4, H4.
I do not see what is so wrong with the G4.
I for example NEVER liked Sara , the Poser original figures.
I do like Miki2 though.
I do like Kiki, Kit  but I soooo do not like those plushies
I like a lot of figures

What happend to Koshini I wonder and her boyfriend, are they stillout there?
Once upon a time we saw her in almost every render.
I think that figure for example is so darn ugly and I never knew what the fuss was about her.

I let them be though.

For Poser 8 I wish they would make the Interface easier to use in regards to the libraries, it would be nice to have something like we have in the DAZ Studio, so much easier to swap between several runtimes and see everything at once.

Never was the slightest bit interested in the original The Girl, not interested in this new one either - same goes for Aiko 3/4 for that matter.

My Freebies

To SeanMartin: Firstly, I sympathise with your feelings, so don't take this as a personal attack on you, I don't mean it that way... it's just an alternative viewpoint.

I think your rant is really mixing up two completely separate issues:

1. The Poser application itself, what 3D modelling features it provides, how well it supports them, and where it is going in terms of development.

2. What the majority of hobby artists want to do with it (and perhaps also with D|S), which, I believe, mainly drives the market for what content is available at DAZ, Rendo, etc etc.

Your rant is really about number 2 above, not number 1. Well, if that's what many (most? I don't know) people want to do with Poser and D|S, and if they like the look of The Girl 4, or A4, or any other particular model in their renders.. what is there really for anyone to complain about? How does that insult our intelligence or taste? What does it really have to do with us at all?

So what is your real gripe? I don't believe you can (or should) give a quick easy answer to that question. Think about it.

Izi

"If I were a shadow, I know I wouldn't like to be half of what I should be."
Mr Otsuka, the old black tomcat in Kafka on the Shore (Haruki Murakami)

>> "what is there really for anyone to complain about? How does that insult our intelligence or taste? What does it really have to do with us at all?"

When I started with this stuff, back in the days of Poser 4, you saw VARIETY. Poserworld was doing some seriously kick-ass historical stuff. RDNA was doing some pretty sharp scifi. Even DAZ had, more often than not, fantasy wear (for both men and women) that allowed a lot of customization, from skimpy to folly clothed and everything inbetween, all from the same outfit.

Now? Now it's all a joke.

We're limiting ourselves more and more and more and more and more. Everything's honing in on JUST one body type and JUST one approach to suport. Regardless of whether it's fantasy armour or sci fi or (laughingly) "normal" wear, it's all taken even more of a triple-x, hard core sexual edge to it, to the point where it's passed absurdity and dived head-first into complete and utter WTF-land.

Hell, at least Barbie got to be an astronaut and an airline stewardess. Our Barbies, if they're astornauts, wear a pasty here and a pasty there and maybe a helmet -- and as a result it's no different from anything else. All we've done is change a few minor details and called it something new, which is generally followed by "Wow! That's so pretty!" -- when it's not, guys. It's freaking silly and (more and more, it seems) freaking ugly, with makeup applied with a proverbial trowel. I mean, my god, look at that image Mariner put up. Those eyes alone on G4 are enough to scare the crap out of someone. That. Is. Not. Pretty. Not by a long shot.

We deserve better, and we're "making do" with crap. You wanna do pin ups? Be my guest. I have no issue with that. It;'s what you have to work with that disgusts me. If you wanna do that stuff, go for it... but for god's sake, cant they at least be pleasant to look at?

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Quote -

Now? Now it's all a joke.

We're limiting ourselves more and more and more and more and more. Everything's honing in on JUST one body type and JUST one approach to suport. Regardless of whether it's fantasy armour or sci fi or (laughingly) "normal" wear, it's all taken even more of a triple-x, hard core sexual edge to it.............

You should consider learning to make your own content
Daz is not deciding what gets supported its the hapless masses who desire
everything to made for them who decides this.

Yes Girl4 is just a new morph of ubiquitous V-chick and most of the new content
is the predictable repetitive fetish wear.
 this is the Daz business model.
what were you expecting from them??

Example
if you dont like the way hollywood is producing certain formulaic crap
its not fair  for me to say "well go make your won $85  million dollar sci fi  movie."

But its fair to say that you have the option of creating your own poser content even figures for very very  little cost and the tools & Documentation to learn  how are easily obtained.

now if you dont have the time ,talent,will etc to learn how to produce for yourself what YOU want then you will be stuck with whatever DAZ& Co decide to feed to
the masses.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

looks at girl. looks at girl 4

so girl4 is a clumsy copy with the style and charm removed?
glad I don't use daz figures....

Attached Link: Art Charts

The customers are complaining because the suppliers are giving them what they want.

;)))

Yeah, and car buyers all wanted SUVs until Detroit made them into crap as well.

I've said my peace on this. Girl 4 is an ugly piece of junk, an insult to Gossens' original. You wanna go out and spend the big bucks on not only the mesh but everything else you have to have to make it work? Be my guest. Glad you have that kind of money to throw around on something so really, really bad.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

to Sean...
smiles
You're right.
Pro wrestling these days does suck.

"If I were a shadow, I know I wouldn't like to be half of what I should be."
Mr Otsuka, the old black tomcat in Kafka on the Shore (Haruki Murakami)

Aw, c'mon, Sean ;)  It feels like you're holding back.  Let it all out, will ya?

Truth is, DAZ, Rendo, RDNA...all those merchants make what they want to make, or they wouldn't make anything.  You might here a lot of "oh, but this is what the public wants!"  I don't trust the public.  The public likes Spam (the meat).  The Public has Miley Cyrus at number 8 on the Billboard Hot 100.  The Public shops at Wal-Mart.  I could go on, but won't.  Merchants wouldn't make what they make if there wasn't a little bit of "ooh, I could do THIS with that figure...sweet!!"  So, honestly...if you want to see the content you want to see, you may have to make it or commission it.  shrug  Because, in the end, that's the only way you have control over it.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I got both figures for free because I am a PC-member. I never liked the girl and IMHO there was no need for an update.
But I do think it´s a good thing that the "new" DAZ figures are just morphs of a base figure, it gives you more variety. You are no longer stuck with the look of one figure but with a combination of looks, and now it´s up to you what you make of it.

Hi Sean

I think the problem may be that only a few content providers have mastered Daz's JCM,  Magno rig,  thus limiting our options.  We're going to change all of that with our Mark 4 figures.

Nonsense, the magnet JSM rig is trivial to work with compared to JCM.  It's literally a hundred times easier.

My Freebies

*Nonsense, the magnet JSM rig is trivial to work with compared to JCM.  It's literally a hundred times easier.

AH...HAH HAH HAH!...

Brilliant riposte!

My Freebies

Sorry SM, but this is a rehash of the same old rant, albeit delivered with a righteous indignation seldom outside 18th Century New England pulpits. New depths of depravity, cultural devolution, den of debauchery, yada yada. Forget de gustibus non est disputandum, Vicky and her sisters workin' hard for the money enable you to have luxury of putting them down while using Poser for more refined endeavours. How long would this business survive on Marie Antoinette frocks and pompadours? Youl'd be left without a pot to pose in. It ain't ray traced reflections that sells most copies of Poser any more than Bavarian hops sell beer. You want go back to some golden age but you I doubt that you want to give up the advances in the software that the content you despise and the users you scorn paid for. Just when I think that the anti-intellectual, anti-elite strain in America is misguided, I see something that makes me understand it all too well - you betcha!

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

*Sorry SM, but this is a rehash of the same old rant

Nah...Seans right,  the sun is setting on the daz empire.

Quote - albeit delivered with a righteous indignation seldom outside 18th Century New England pulpits.

laughing out loud at the irony
Know thy preacher, before thou judge him!

"If I were a shadow, I know I wouldn't like to be half of what I should be."
Mr Otsuka, the old black tomcat in Kafka on the Shore (Haruki Murakami)

"Sorry SM, but this is a rehash of the same old rant, albeit delivered with a righteous indignation seldom outside 18th Century New England pulpits"

You just dont get it, do you.

Girl 4 is BUTT UGLY.

And, for whatever reason, we're all just so scared to really look at that mesh and admit thr really ugly truth.. because its from DAZ and we dont want to upset DAZ or its PAs without whom we would not be here enjoying the blessing of their bountious generosity.

I dont care what you do with her. Attack her with tendrils, tie her up in a stock, do your best -- but PLEASE PUT A BAG OVER THAT HEAD, okay?

And yes, Jen, the trotted out solution is "well, learn to make it yourself". Y'know, after a while, that wears thin too. Yeah, I can pretty much build a car from the ground up -- those classes in auto shop werent completely lost on me, and I've learned a lot since. I could grow my own food and make my own clothes and maybe even build my own computer and cel phone and furniture and perhaps even weave my own cotton to make my own sheets and pillowcases and all the rsst of that "American pioneer" spirit nonsense we love to espouse when the spirit moves us. Yes, I can do this. That doersnt change the fact that the store that's positioned itself to be the self-avowed leader of all things Poser has palmed off a piece of UGLY CRAP.

So tell you what, folks:a ll of you who think this mesh is all that? Prove it. Make me see that inner beauty that I'm somehow missing is this joke, Here's your thread and your opportunity to prove me wrong. Hell, I admitted I was wrong when M4 came out -- even though it turned out to be a lot of gloss covering some rather serious issues. But I admitted it. So let's see you try and make me do it here. A $10 gift card to the Rosity store says you cant do it. No popular vote on this; it's my call. If I say she looks like cow's dung, that's my decision, not yours. It ends when I say so: if it looks iike things are just paddling water, I'll pull it.

So let's see it. The first official LET'S PROVE SEAN'S A POMPOUS, WINDBAGGED, WRONG-HEADED DOOFUS-HEAD WITH A REALLY PRETTY RENDER OF GIRL 4 starts right now.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Pretty much all poser people are butt ugly by default, although the mutated head that A3/A4 and Girl 3/Girl 4 are sporting is particularly repellent (at least to me).

My Freebies

The G4 comes with some really, really fantastic expression morphs that can be used on plain ole V4 with stunning results.  I've never seen expressions like these on a daz figure before!  That said, I'd probably never use G4 the way she's supposed to be. 

But what I find more insulting about poser content is that everyone is SO concerned about getting their slice of market pie that I now have 67 "Panties" in my Bikini Bottom folder that are all identical or could've achieved their differences with morphs or transmaps.  I have to wade through 134 MAT folders to find the texture for the panties I like while making sure they are actually for the panties that I've loaded.  Oh wait, the texture I was looking for goes on those other panties, but those panties don't have the right morph targets...

Furthermore, as I pointed out a couple months ago, people are now making stuff that is the same as the other stuff they already made, slapping a new name on it, and selling it as a different, new item. 

Same can be said for the endless "character packs" merchants come out with.  I am proud to say that no matter how much in love I am with one of my character creations, I've never sold a character pack. 

 

I can't make you like Girl 4 any more than anyone else can.  I was never a fan of Ichiro.  You obviously are.  I don't rag on him saying that you need to PROVE to me that he's a worthwhile character, Sean. 

Seriously, everyone's opinions differ.  The original Girl was, at one point, my go-to character for a lot of work, both personal and professional, and I, for one, am GLAD for the new one.  I can make her less stylized if I want.  I used to hate the idea of Aiko and Girl being a morph of Vicky...but, honestly, that makes them more useful.  You might not like her.  But, seriously, claiming that we're all sycophants lapping at the teat of DAZ (paraphrased, my words, not yours) is a bit much. 

And, sorry if the "make it yourself" mantra gets repeated a lot...but, um, well, that's what you're going to get.  You want to see something?  Make it.  Or commission it.  Content creators are going to make what they want to, and it's up to you whether you want it or not...for free or not.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

>> LET'S PROVE SEAN'S A POMPOUS, WINDBAGGED, WRONG-HEADED DOOFUS-HEAD**

By the way, guys? For all those who are about to post "We dont need a contest to prove that!", I beat ya to it... :)
**

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Quote - I don't rag on him saying that you need to PROVE to me that he's a worthwhile character, Sean. 

Well, it should be noted that Sean's willing to pay $10 for the privilege here...

My Freebies

I think it's hard for some people to accept that daz is awash in a sea of mediocrity.

Quote - > Quote - I don't rag on him saying that you need to PROVE to me that he's a worthwhile character, Sean. 

Well, it should be noted that Sean's willing to pay $10 for the privilege here...

Very true ;)  Noted.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

 The Girl is extremely stylized for my tastes and slightly useless since there's no "The Guy" to pose her along side. So I agree that the market which drives content creation is limited to base instincts.

I got into 3d because I needed an inexpensive way to create scenes of a hero running away from an exploding helicopter o_O 

I'm currently learning to model my own humanoid. Third time's a charm.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/guy-4-michael?item=8899&spmeta=rq&_m=d

> Quote -  The Girl is extremely stylized for my tastes and slightly useless since there's no "The Guy" to pose her along side.

Ah, but there is, thanks to pdxjims.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

TheGuy is actually a pretty nice package that I can see getting some use of (actually have used him in a recent gallery pic).  Not fond of the face but that's all right, it's separate from the excellent body morphs.

My Freebies

 I stand corrected.

@ SM,  that the G4 is * Butt Ugly * as you said is your opinion but by the way she is used and how often you see her in renders shows that many have not your opinion.

People do not have the same taste, they will NEVER do and I am glad it is this way, life and Poser would soon become very very boring.
Not only Barbie could be what she wanted to be, I doubt you had a real look at the contents at DAZ and other Stores.

But hey, that is your opinion and that is fine by me.
I just do not like how you try to put your opinion on us until we agree, which is not likely to happen.

I started with Poser 4 and I am so so so very glad we moved on and have those Models now that do not break their arms or legs when you pose them.

I rest my case.

Quote - >>
And yes, Jen, the trotted out solution is "well, learn to make it yourself". Y'know, after a while, that wears thin too. Yeah, I can pretty much build a car from the ground up -- those classes in auto shop werent completely lost on me, and I've learned a lot since. I could grow my own food and make my own clothes and maybe even build my own computer and cel phone and furniture and perhaps even weave my own cotton to make my own sheets and pillowcases and all the rsst of that "American pioneer" spirit nonsense we love to espouse when the spirit moves us. Yes, I can do this. That doersnt change the fact that the store that's positioned itself to be the self-avowed leader of all things Poser has palmed off a piece of UGLY CRAP.....huff puff..huff.. puff!!!!

The problem is NOT  DAZ figures & Content is boring and repetitive (thats a given)
the problem is that  YOU actually think DAZ & Co are obligated to change their
content please YOU.

You hate this 3DModel Figure from DAZ from Called "The Girl"
you have stated that opinion...
 We have read and understood your opinion..

However it is MY opinion that you are now a bit frustrated at having failed
to incite an angry mob of villagers here to rally to your cause and storm Castle DAZ
with torches & pitchforks in hand.

Calm Down.

Its just a "3D Computer Model"

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

I think he was actually trying to drum up some attractive renders of the Girl, might have misread that though.

My Freebies

On a lighter note, and with a smile....

Quote -
The Girl 4 is .... slightly useless since there is no "The Guy" to pose her alongside.
Every Girl needs her Guy (from the The Guy product page)

To put it mildly - codswallop!

"If I were a shadow, I know I wouldn't like to be half of what I should be."
Mr Otsuka, the old black tomcat in Kafka on the Shore (Haruki Murakami)

my guess is that girl4 will accrue about $250,000 in gross receipts before the next thing comes out.  its head and extremities are not as deformed as the previous girl model.  AFAIK they never explicitly stated whether the original cartoonist (dany) has received any royalties or any credit of any kind.  he couldn't trademark the word "girl", but he has rights of trade dress, hence I hope they're sending him a cheque monthly.  I ain't a lawyer.

Personally, I don't give a rats arse about the V4, A4. G4 and other humas-ish characters (either from DAZor anywhere else). I work with toon characters most of the time and have only used A3/H3 in a few renders and in my Sad Lisa video.

I don't let the hype steer my buying habits and try to encourage those that make what I want when I can. Gimme more 3DU, tate, Netherworks, Nursoda, Sixus, Jon Lynn etc, to name a few.

---

FatCatAlley.net | Now Playing "SpaceCat 5" Parts 1 and 2

I'm not a slave of DAZ.
Warning: Nudity & Profanity
Revised Erotic Comic: 1st six pages.
My Erotic Comic: Pages 6-7-8
Pages 9-10 (For Larry_F)
Pages 11-12-13 (For Larry_F)
Pages 14-15 (For Indoda & Larry_F)
Pages 16-17-18 (For Indoda & Larry_F)
Pages 19-20-21-22 (For Indoda & Larry_F)

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

Besides butt ugly what do you see as being so horrid about G4? I, honestly, don't see a huge lack of charm between the versions. There are some small changes but nothing too drastic and the face is pretty spot on. DAZ does some pretty weird things but really don't see the huge uproar about the shapes.

it gets a bit wearing seeing this type of thread all the time.

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE CONTENT THAT IS OFFERED AT THE VARIOUS STORES>

EITHER MAKE YOUR OWN OR SPEND YOUR TIME ON SOMETHING ELSE!

apologies for shouting.

artists make what they like or what will sell.
you are not forced to buy anything.

all these various stores would soon go under if they if they only catered to the minority!

" I just do not like how you try to put your opinion on us until we agree, which is not likely to happen"

LOL -- then dont read the posts, m'dear.

And as for everyone else taking such offence... c;mon, guys, let's see the renders. PROVE ME WRONG.

I repeat: ten bucks says you cant do it. I'm doing what you folks keep saying one should do: putting my money where my mouth is. What the heck: maybe ten bucks isnt enough for your very sensitive souls. So here's the deal: really blow me away with how gorgeous this mess is, and I'll up it to twenty. But to earn that, it's really gotta blow me away. Feeling lucky?

Or is it just easier to complain that I'm complaining? :)

C'mon, put up or shut up. Best one wins a prize. The rest of you can go bitch that ol poopy-head ruined all your fun..... That simple.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

I'm kind of surprised nobody has posted even one pic to try for your money.

My Freebies

Quote -

And as for everyone else taking such offence... c;mon, guys, let's see the renders. PROVE ME WRONG.

I repeat: ten bucks says you cant do it. I'm doing what you folks keep saying one should do: putting my money where my mouth is. What the heck: maybe ten bucks isnt enough for your very sensitive souls. So here's the deal: really blow me away with how gorgeous this mess is, and I'll up it to twenty. But to earn that, it's really gotta blow me away. Feeling lucky?

Sir why would anyone with  two live brain cells participate in such an obvious straw dog challenge where the "Judge" is your own subjective opinion??
you may as well offer $1,000,000 Dollars ...... so what??
every "contestant" will be subjectively told "no that render sucks"by you
and you can make the claim that the Girls Fans "Failed" to impress you.

My website

YouTube Channel

LOL -- oh ye of so very, very little faith.....

Afraid someone might actually make the cut and prove me wrong? And if no one does, everyone gets to put something up that maybe someone else will enjoy. You got a problem with that? Or is it just easier to whine? Frankly, that's about all youve done thus far.

C'mon, big boy, let's see whatcha got.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

This a little better for you Sean? Im not much into Slut wear myself so I do have something that covers a bit more fantasy type set that I am finsihing up...

I actually didnt like the idea of her Being a V4 morph at first, but once I got playing with her I really started to like her being able to mix and match with say Aiko and such :), and you know me... I loved the first girl :)

Here are a few promos of the Cold Warrior Fantasy Gear and the Living Life which were what I worked on for Her so far.

Silverelf


 http://www.silverelf.com

Does it have to be a Girl 4 render to earn the $20.00, or could I substitute a remapped Judy and Posette render instead?
DPH
PS: I made a hybrid awhile back using The Girl's head grafted onto Posette's body.  Could I use her possibly?
Warning NUDITY:
SNGIATWAS
SNGIATWAS.02
NGIAPTAB.01
GirletteV3
In Defense of Home & Family!

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

Just a quick render to level the look a bit more.

What is there to "prove"?

You think the Girl 4 is "butt-ugly."  Well, that's your opinion and you're perfectly entitled to it--

But that doesn't mean you're "right."  Or "wrong."  It's just your opinion. 

If you don't like Girl 4, you don't have to buy her or use her or have anything at all to do with her.  So what is your problem?  It's not as though anyone is pointing a gun at your head and forcing you to use the model.

@SilverElf, those are excellent renders (and outfits) - I cast my vote for you for SeanMartins challenge!  (Pay up dude!)

**
**

---

FatCatAlley.net | Now Playing "SpaceCat 5" Parts 1 and 2

Aw, and I thought we were starting to agree on more topics?  ;)

Girl 4 is a stylized character, and making her not "look ugly" in your opinion would be like trying to make Emotiguy not look like a smiley or the DAZ Troll have a cute round face - she wouldn't look like Girl 4 anymore if we tried it.

I said before that setting the Girl 4 face morph to 30-60% can give nice results if you don't like the full 100% face, and she mixes well with other V4 face morphs. Can someone do that and still win your contest?   >:)

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Sean, this rant from a guy who used only Ichiro for soooo long??? C'mon. I loved your Ichiro images and thought they were well done, but how can you have a hissy fit over the Girl 4 when you used only Ichiro for most all of your images??? Lots of people thought he was silly and not "real art". (not me by the way) :-)  And what does the Girl 4 and Ichiro for that matter have to do with improving the Poser program's capabilities? One really doesn't have any bearing on the other at this point, I don't believe. You don't like Girl 4? Don't buy her...pretty simple. Many love her look and ability to be combined with the other morphs for totally different looks. It's the old product and demand thing. If you build it they will come. :-)

Kathie Berry
Admin/PlanIT3D

Some painters transform the sun into a yellow spot. 
Others transform a yellow spot into the sun.
 --Pablo Picasso-
-

You had asked for , i never liked Girl in any way .

But Girl 4 is something special and i dont want to miss her anymore in my Runtime . Have a look at what you miss out on ;-) .

*>> I loved your Ichiro images and thought they were well done, but how can you have a hissy fit over the Girl 4 when you used only Ichiro for most all of your images?*

Yeah, yeah, yeah... c'mon, this the best you guys got?

You want SilverElf to win by default because the rest of you are too busy bitching and moaning? Sorry, that's MY job around here, not yours. Yours is to prove me wrong, buckos.

And the lady above agrees: Maybe ya just dont have it in ya, huh... :)

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

I really like the face morph of SilverElf's ginger-nut (no offence meant - my girl is a natural ginger-nut) and Shal's Girl is lovely, I think.

But it's not open for voting. There is nothing objective or democratic about this challenge. You might stand a chance with a paper bag. I don't have one myself, but perhaps a box will do....

Now, is anyone going to help these Moaning Minnies climb out of this here bear trap (wolf trap?) they jumped into?
::

"If I were a shadow, I know I wouldn't like to be half of what I should be."
Mr Otsuka, the old black tomcat in Kafka on the Shore (Haruki Murakami)

SeanMartin wrote;
"Everyone oohs and ahhs about Girl 4, but that has to be one of the ugliest damn things I've seen in a very long time, an insult to Gossen's original, which had wit and style."

Well Sean, since Ghostofmacbeth  has kindly provided a side by side comparison of the original Girl and Girl 4, please point out  what makes Girl 4 *an insult to Gossen's original.

*Please be as specific as possible, as I'm sure you want people to think you actually know what you're talking about, right?

Coldrake

              **
**

Each to their own. Me, I think she's great.

Add in the versatility of morph mix'n'matching and being able to use V4 textures out of the box (not to mention magnet-fitting V4's vast wardrobe) and she's a terrific addition to my runtime. And I suggest you check your facts before mouthing off too - Girl4 clothes such as the Casual Outfit, Adventure Girl, Kickin', Pampoen and DreamWeaver are FAR from 'slutwear'.

As I said though. Each to their own.

Want pretty? Here's a straight Girl4 render with no additional morphs (don't want to be accused of cheating!), DAZ Studio render using UberEnvironment, Depth of Field enabled and focused in the eye. The texture is the free Colleen V4 texture by Moonfire from sharecg.com. No INJections were used, just the built-in Laugh expression set to 20%. Total setup time < 3 minutes, render time about 15 mins. She's both fun and simple to work with.

Not that I think I'd convince you for a second.

After reading this post I came up with this render. Girl 4 with Aiko 4 body and some muscles added. T from the Marketplace, Texture by Mask-edit, light from RDNA.

Read the thread, and though I really don't think anyone's going to change your mind, Sean..here's the 2 images I've done using G4. Granted they are not full G4 (mixed with V4/A4) as I never liked the original Girl, but that's the point of having one base mesh with morphs, right? The first is my own character creation, the second uses a pre-made character by Blazerwiccan (available here at Rendo). (And yes, both are spring green...I've been in a green mood...lol.)

Ok, I can't get more than one image to attach...so here's the 2nd.

the OP started the same type of thread over at Daz forums , it was pulled reasonably swiftly.

You know, guys, maybe you could spend more time showing what this mesh can do instead of all the posts of what an awful guy I am? Frankly, that's not news, so it's already old.

Or shall we just forget it?

Truly, your call. I dont care either way. I've already said I can be swayed, but you folks seem rather fixated that I cant be. Pity that you think so little of me, but not surprising either.

So tell me: you want this thing to end right here, right now? I'm happy to do it.

You guys just let me know. After all, your show now. Not mine.*

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Oh lookie another pissing contest  my, my...LOL! You folks KILL me!

Anyway, as in other posts I like G4, I like the fact I can use all of the V4 morphs on her, I like that she can take V4 skins, I like that some of the V4 clothing (Please don't get me started on content I am already buying nothing as it is now I have to have some fun) can be worked with to work on G4 even everyday style clothing yeaahhhhh! Ehem I digress pardon but I really like the Mil 4 series of folks.  Boy I can hardly wait until the Freak 4 comes out just to see what the hub bub will be about that.

I have to agree with SM on one point, HOW MANY FREAKING COPY CAT PRODUCTS CAN BE shoved into a store???  Oh well the corporate mantra says "Who cares about creativity this stuff sells!"  Sure worked for Detroit them cookie cutter cars are great!

Damn this is such a senseless thread ain't it? I mean with all the problems in the world, people going homeless, losing jobs, yada, yada, yada it's hard to believe that G4 is such a crisis. But carry on the entertainment value alone makes one forget all about that other real crisis stupid stuff.

My Facebook Page

man!  I was all set to do a render of "miss thing" for $20, but I see ravyn has already posted the prize-winning entry!

*>>Yeah, yeah, yeah... c'mon, this the best you guys got?

You want SilverElf to win by default because the rest of you are too busy bitching and moaning? >>Sorry, that's MY job around here, not yours. Yours is to prove me wrong, buckos.

And the lady above agrees: Maybe ya just dont have it in ya, huh... :)

I want SilverElf to win because I like her renders. If you actually read my previous post you'd see that I don't use Human-like models and haven't even installed G4 (even though I did get the free PC base model). 

Bonk Bonk - HELLO??? Anybody home??

---

FatCatAlley.net | Now Playing "SpaceCat 5" Parts 1 and 2

Having already remapped V4.1, I wouldn't touch any of her mesh clones with a ten foot pole!
DPH

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

 LOL Sean.. you sure know how to make yourself popular ;)

For what it's worth, I agree some with some 95% of your initial post. I was actually whooping when I read it (quite literally.. scared the sh** out of my cat!)

But I must say that I found something in this thread even uglier than The Girl - namely that so-called "Guy". Sorry, PDXJims.. I usually love your creations, but this Guy is an abomination.

And no, nobody is forcing me to buy him. 

I downloaded Girl4 the first day she was available for the PC members. Not because I plan to ever use her, but simple collectormania. 

I made this pic when GIRL first came out:

I guess I agree with Sean that the only thing either of them are missing is the air vent.

For what it's worth, I think RavynGyrl's second image is a winner! It's very VERY nice!

FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
  Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.

Personally, I like her.  She's more versatile to me, and one extra bonus:  I CAN MAKE HER BOOBS SMALLER.  So, w00t.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - man!  I was all set to do a render of "miss thing" for $20, but I see ravyn has already posted the prize-winning entry!

Quote - For what it's worth, I think RavynGyrl's second image is a winner! It's very VERY nice!

Awww, thank you both! :D But don't let my meager offerings stop you from posting a render. :)

Convince you? That's a pissing in the wind assignment I'll pass on. As I said before, this is just another variant on the 'Vicky's boobs are destroying Poser as a serious whatever' - now convince me it isn't :-) Seriously, if you think you are the source of true knowledge on what is ugly or not for anyone besides you own self then you welcome to said opinion. I'd say whatever her looks, she's doing pretty good for a virtual female. Even real women usually elicit such kvetching when they've broken a man's heart or his balls.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

You must have missed my post, so here it is again.

**SeanMartin wrote;
"Everyone oohs and ahhs about Girl 4, but that has to be one of the ugliest damn things I've seen in a very long time, an insult to Gossen's original, which had wit and style."

Well Sean, since Ghostofmacbeth  has kindly provided a side by side comparison of the original Girl and Girl 4, please point out  what makes Girl 4 *an insult to Gossen's original.

Please be as specific as possible, as I'm sure you want people to think you actually know what you're talking about, right?*

Hmmm, maybe you're not up to the challenge. Because if you can't point out  what makes Girl 4 an insult to Gossen's original that would mean your original post was nothing but you trying to blowing smoke up everybody's rear end.

Or maybe it's just another one of your inane posts trying to bash anything and everything "DAZ".

Coldrake

SilverElf, your images rock! And you still create some of the most wonderful outfits ever.

FlyByNight

Hey, I will try anything for a chance at more Poser spending money!

Girl4 morph set at 1.000 with a few V4 morphs thrown in.

 

 

Quote - You must have missed my post, so here it is again.

**SeanMartin wrote;
"Everyone oohs and ahhs about Girl 4, but that has to be one of the ugliest damn things I've seen in a very long time, an insult to Gossen's original, which had wit and style."

Well Sean, since Ghostofmacbeth  has kindly provided a side by side comparison of the original Girl and Girl 4, please point out  what makes Girl 4 *an insult to Gossen's original.

Please be as specific as possible, as I'm sure you want people to think you actually know what you're talking about, right?*

Hmmm, maybe you're not up to the challenge. Because if you can't point out  what makes Girl 4 an insult to Gossen's original that would mean your original post was nothing but you trying to blowing smoke up everybody's rear end.

Or maybe it's just another one of your inane posts trying to bash anything and everything "DAZ".

Coldrake

Oh my, so very, very sorry I didnt respond IMMEDIATELY to your post, PLEASE KIND SIR DO NOT BEAT ME TOOOO BADLY.

Let's start with the eyes, shall we? The original Girl's eyes are much smaller, better shaped, better defined. The new Girl's eyes in default? A vague resemblance to a frog's. Certainly too big for the shape of the face. Definitely poorly modeled.

Moving on...

The original proportions of the Girl have a nice sense of style. When I pulled the model out for my own image, I was struck by how few morphs were included, because really none were necessary. Gossens did an excellent job of a figure that, in default, looks good enough to stand on its own. The new one? Sheer height alone makes it difficult to put into a scene with any other characters without serious adjustment somewhere. And the body proportions are way, way off from the originals. The "new and improved" one has about as much structural informance to the original as a Hummer does to a 57 T-bird convertible.

Shall I continue? Look at the hands. In the original, yes, they're large, but in the new one, theyre positively grotesque. Move on to the feet and you'll find the same thing: the scale is completely out of whack for the concept of the overall figure. The original's might have been large as well, but -- again -- you can see a sense of real design at work there. The new one is just V4 put through the mill to make it look sorta/kinda like the original: a third-generation photocopy.

So, there you have it. Feel free to dispute the points all you wish, bubba. But Mariner's image says more than I think you'll be able to tackle. Still, you're welcome to try.

And Vicky's boobs? Another discussion for another time. Please try to stay focused, huh?

For everyone else, on with the renders.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

"But carry on the entertainment value alone makes one forget all about that other real crisis stupid stuff."

Exactly. Thank you. LOL

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Just a note, I quickly scaled up the V4 hands, feet to get them closer to the original, It was a rush job since I just wanted to have a better comparison than the original pic that was shown. Eyes, feet, hands can all be scaled easily on the new Girl. Just so you know. Later.

I guess I just don't understand the point of the thread at all, since it opens this way:

"I noted the thread on what we all want for Poser 8, and some of the suggestions were pretty good.

But frankly I dont hold a lot of hope when a company like DAZ continually calls the shot on what characters are supported and what are dropped. Everyone oohs and ahhs about Girl 4...."

I fail to see what Poser 8 has to do with Girl 4. Girl 4 is a (one) add-on figure/character/morph by a company that doesn't make Poser. Moreover, DAZ talking about "most-anticipated" figure of the year - that's just hype, and anyway, it's no news. It IS their most-anticipated figure of the year, since they already came out with M4 in 2008, and nobody expects a V5 this year.

Personally, I downloaded G4 because she was free. I doubt I'll use her in an actual render - maybe some expression morphs or something, I dunno. I really only try for realistic characters, to which G4 doesn't pretend.

But let's set all that aside. Let's specifically apply your comments to a situation where those people who are using G4 are also making requests for Poser 8 that would aid realism (I don't even know if that's true, but let's assume). Any animator worth his salt will tell you that even with the most outlandish of characters, you need a certain believability from lighting and shadows etc for the whole thing to work, or it will look ridiculously amateur. Ergo, I don't see any sort of incompatibility if someone who loves G4 also wants global illumination etc etc.

To sum up: Girl 4 is not DAZ, and DAZ by no means is Poser. But even if none of that were true, it wouldn't mean the improvements sought for Poser 8 would be beside the point.

So who cares if DAZ is hyping G4? Who cares if a bunch of other people like a product you don't? It doesn't affect you in any way, and even less does it affect how Poser 8 gets developed.

My .02.

______________

Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

Hey Sean, I think  I see what you're getting at...or maybe not, you know me ~lol~

I agree that there are too few companies dictating what is cool or not cool but also...I've produced shed loads of free stuff.  Some people have downloaded it, some (most) people haven't.  If it floats your boat then by all means use it, if it don't then don't.

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven...blah...blah...blah,

I wouldn't buy The (new) Girl but if there is one worthwhile render produced using "her" then I suppose "her" existence is justified.

N.B. - Neither of us is qualified to judge what is "worthwhile" mate...or we'd be rich. :¬)

The liver is evil - It must be punished.

Well one thing to keep in mind is that The GIRL 4 can be mixed with Aiko and V4 morphs for some really nice results. You can make it so her face morph is not loaded at all but her body morph is mixed with some of Vicky's making for some very curvasious morphs -thin and heavyset-

As for a "GUY" to go with "The GIRL" pdxjims just created one like he did Vittorio for Vicky 4 so that also is another option as well.

In the end, she is very stylistic but I really like her. I have been working on a pack for her for some time now and combining her with V4 gives some really nice results I think. Attached is something I have been working on that is a character that is a V4/GIRL hybrid. Not sure she's to your taste but figured I would share a render anyway :)

PS This isn't actually for the contest..just for the discussion on her look LOL Heavens knows this isn't a real render...just a test render I had for thumbnails :)

SeanMartin wrote; *" Let's start with the eyes, shall we?"*

Oh, let's do!

SeanMartin wrote;
*The original Girl's eyes are much smaller, better shaped, better defined. The new Girl's eyes in default? A vague resemblance to a frog's. Certainly too big for the shape of the face. Definitely poorly modeled.

*Did you just make that up off the top of your head? Lol!

As you can obviously see in the attached image, Girl 4's eyes are the same size in proportion to her head as the Girl's. In the small side by side images you can see the top of the eyelid is a little flatter and the lacrimal is larger on the original Girl, but the size, shape and angle of the eyes are almost exactly the same. In the overlay at the bottom, you can see how little difference there is. They are extremely close. Your assertion that the eyes on Girl 4 are too big for the face compared to the original Girl is dead wrong.

Now that I've proven you wrong on the eyes, let's move on.

SeanMartin wrote;
"The new one? Sheer height alone makes it difficult to put into a scene with any other characters without serious adjustment somewhere."

You do know how to turn a scale dial don't you? You just click on the dial and....... turn.

SeanMartin wrote;
*"Look at the hands. In the original, yes, they're large, but in the new one, theyre positively grotesque. Move on to the feet and you'll find the same thing: the scale is completely out of whack for the concept of the overall figure."

Completely out of whack? Only to you. See above.

SeanMartin wrote;
*"The "new and improved" one has about as much structural informance to the original as a Hummer does to a 57 T-bird convertible."

*I can't answer that one for you, since there is no such word as "informance". You seem to be making up a lot of things lately, lol!

Shall I continue? I'll leave it up to you.

By the way, I never mentioned Vicky's boobs, you did, that's your obsession. Sean, try to stay focused here.

Since you can't find the Official Girl 4 Product Preview thread and the The Girl 4 Render Thread here are the links. If you can't find anything you like in the dozens of images in those threads, you're not going to find anything here. Your little "contest" is redundant.

Coldrake

Geez, coldrake, you really think anyone cares about all that "I'm right you're wrong" stuff? This seems to have become your obsession now. I suppose you never got a word wrong... you didn't even use your intelligence to think what SM might have meant by that wrong word!

And who the hell are you to say that a discussion that other people are following with some interest is "redundant". I think you should just move on if you have nothing useful to say here.

Which is what I''m doing now. Checking out. So I won't see your devastating riposte.

"If I were a shadow, I know I wouldn't like to be half of what I should be."
Mr Otsuka, the old black tomcat in Kafka on the Shore (Haruki Murakami)

Well that was fun! Do I have to pay SeanMartin for the entertainment? Ok, as long it is not abundant just tell me where I shall send the money.

"I fail to see what Poser 8 has to do with Girl 4"

We're talking about the destination, not the voyage. What's the point of having this nifty software if we're all reduced to... well, this?

Let's put it another way, okay? And this is for the benefit of folks like Coldrake, who, yes, is getting obsessive about "proving Sean wrong" -- as if Sean really cares what Coldrake thinks just as he in turrn probably doesnt give much of a gosh darn what Sean thinks. But anyway...

You got people out there who think GM is the cat's PJs. These are the folks who buy into that whole marketing nonsense about how great those vehicles are when really all they are is a bunch of chrome and fibreglas slathered over a pretty lousy product. One of the best cars I ever owned was a 1971 VW. I bought it used. In the fifteen years I owned it, I could do all my own maintenance. I could customize the motor to my heart's content. Heck, as far as that's concerned, I could take the motor apart and rebuild it in a single afternoon. And it got 34 mpg. In 1976. I added a working heater -- all by myself -- and increased the mileage to 36 by doing some custom work on the pistons. Had it not gotten totalled by a semi that decided it needed my lane more than I did, I'd probably still have it.

Now? We have machines that no one dares touch unless it's a professional mechanic with a degree in computer science. If anything breaks down or needs to be repaired, it costs a small fortune. And the cars are no safer and the engines no more efficient than that car I owned now almost thirty years ago. And God knows, they're a lot blander -- if not flat out uglier -- in design.

Tell me, you seeing the parallels yet?

Well, y'know, in a funny way, that's what's happened to our little program, whether we want to accept it or not. The figures from even five years ago were simpler to use and didnt require a whole package of add-ons to work. I mean, it's pretty sad when you have to spend some pretty serious bucks to get all of M4, isnt it? I"m sure there's a really good reason for that little piece of absurdity, and I'm sure it has everything to do with Draper making money off something they give you for "free". But that's another discussion for another time. Let's go back to the issue of design.

Yeah, you can mix-n-match to your heart's content with the Gen4 girls, but to what end, guys? We're still looking at something that's essentially bland and boring. It's all V4, with hardly any variation save in a direction that just seems to emphasize everything wrong with the mesh. People have said for years that V2 and V3 were ugly as sin, but it generally took another generation for them to actually see it. And I'm sure that when the Gen5 figures are released (n about four separate packages, requiring eight texture plates and even more confusing installation processed, we'll say the same thing about V4 and A4 and maybe you'll even say I'm right about G4 (although you wont say it directly -- you'll simply say at some point, "God G4 was ugly!" in the same way you talk now about V2 and V3). The Gen4 figures have distilled the formula down even more -- to something that's so unappealing and unversatile because the original mesh is so specific in design.

And for this, we want all these great advantages in Poser 8? Seems a little silly to even try if this is what we have to work with once it's released, because you know that no matter how great the figures are that come with the package, no one will support them. We're all too locked into the whole DAZ-does-no-wrong mentalitty. Criticize one of their creations? God forbid! You take your virtual life in your hands when you do so, because the DAZ fanboys will not let anyone besmirch the honour of their fair lady.

So that's it, bud. Hope that answers the question, because it's a trend I've watched for years now, and it shows no sign of changing. As someone told me in an IM about this thread, we have a monopolist with a chokehold on this program, and no one seems to care. Well, there you are.

As for me, I'm asking Jen to lock this thread. I've chosen a winner, and she (I'm assuming it's a she) did a bang-up job. To the winner: you'll find a gift certificate in your account once Rosity has processed it, which may be immediately, for all I know. I hope you enjoy it.

Who is it, you guys ask? If she chooses to share her good fortune with you, that's her business.

Closing off the bots,

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Sheesh. You ask people to prove you wrong, then when they try you accuse them of being obsessive and that you don't care what they think anyway.

This is a polite forum so words fail me.

Locked by request.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.