Having just bought thunderrs B17 Flying fortress i was looking for some WWII flight uniforms which i found here at renderosity for "the free Apollo Maximus" does any one know where to find the correct one , there seems to be all sorts of bits and im not sure where to find the one I need many thanks in advance

http://www.antonkisieldesigns.com/~akfiles/htmlpages/ApolloMaximusFree3dhumanfigure.htm#Downloads%20links

only apollow download I know of , if thats what you meant.

Poserworld has an assortment of WWII uniforms and gear. Requires a paid membership.

thanks

What about Apollo Maximus itself? I haven't seen Anton posting at all for a long time. Has he abandoned the figure or will there be future updates? Anyone know?

Quote - What about Apollo Maximus itself? I haven't seen Anton posting at all for a long time. Has he abandoned the figure or will there be future updates? Anyone know?

I'm not 100% positive but I think Anton had the last straw a while back and left the poser community. This is just how I interpreted a post by him at CP.

managed to find it just where markschum said

He had announced apollo 2008 coming out "soon", and then supposedly delayed him on purpose waiting for Daz to release M4... M4 was released, and apollo 2008 never followed, so I suspect that it's a dead issue now.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Anton was waiting for M4 to be released, he was also going to start up his own forum but he seems to have vanished, probably having too much fun riding his horses. Can't say I blame him.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

I hope that Anton comes back, or if he doesn't, that he GPL's Apollo, as he's a great figure; much to good to be 'lost'

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
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I think his plan was to release apollo 2008 right after M4 to get back at Daz, but he either lost interest, or looked at M4 and realized that Daz had actually done a very good job with the figure.

He created so much bad blood in every single store in the poserverse,k that his life is probably far less stressful not dealing with it any longer.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Thanks for the responses folks, much appreciated. I just thought maybe since I'd taken a long break myself, I'd lost track of what he was up to. Sorry to see him go. He contributed so much to the community. Yes there were conflicts, but for what it's worth, I'll say this: He and I had an unpleasant online misunderstanding. He sent me his phone number and offered to talk it out. We did. He was very fair and diplomatic, and the misunderstanding quickly became a friendly rapport that enjoyed several more looooong phone calls. I found him to be an upbeat and very bright guy. There are more than one side to every story ... for the most part, I try not to take sides, especially when they aren't really my business. I never had a problem appreciating both Anton and the good folks at DAZ at the same time, as my enjoyment of the 3D hobby has been enhanced by the work of both. Anyway, thanks again for the updates.

I imagine he's still lurkin' around here.

When you least expect him, Anton will be back.

Apollo is a great figure as is, and if you picked up Cole or Apollo Enhanced then he's even better.

If he doesn't return, then he still left a fantastic legecy to the community in Apollo.

-- Jeff

Apollo Enhanced?

Quote - Apollo Enhanced?

Not currently available-Jim was waiting for the AM update before reissuing it...

http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1046

(Nudity in link)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

*When you least expect him, Anton will be back.

I read the whole thread about Apollo 2008. Someone made the comment that Apollo's teeth looked like chicklets and that really set Anton off. Anton, if you're out there, I hope you realize that Apollo is a great figure and beyond any such nit-picking.

I like apollo but he doesn't have IK on the hands. That's my only problem. Now I could feel him sitting in the corner of my runtime depressed and neglected. I was hoping the 2008 version will change this and now I am the one who is depressed learning this news.

Just curious what "bad blood" anton caused to push the brakes? :(

Passion is anger and love combined. So if it looks angry, give it some love!

*Just curious what "bad blood" anton caused to push the brakes? :(

Anton didn't cause any bad blood. This is just a rumor that daz's wolfpack started.

Actually, Anton raised hell at every single store he sold at, and has burned his bridges with all of them... Daz, Rendo, RDNA, and Content Paradise.

None of them will deal with him anymore, and that has nothing to do at all with forum posters at all.

When every single major poser content store won't deal with you anymore, there's isn't much of a place to go to anymore.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

*None of them will deal with him anymore, and that has nothing to do at all with forum posters at all.

Really? http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/artistlist?artist=216155&_m=d

Quote - *None of them will deal with him anymore, and that has nothing to do at all with forum posters at all.

Really? http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/artistlist?artist=216155&_m=d

While those items were created by him they are all owned by DAZ, i.e. Anton isn't a brokered artist.

I have been reading this forum and was wondering if anyone could tell me what Anton's problem was with the stores.

I have Apollo and love the guy. I use him a lot and had been trying to find Cole, but I think Cole is only available at RDNA and they seem to be closed.

Quote - > Quote - *None of them will deal with him anymore, and that has nothing to do at all with forum posters at all.

Really? http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/artistlist?artist=216155&_m=d

While those items were created by him they are all owned by DAZ, i.e. Anton isn't a brokered artist.

Those are all items that were bought out by Daz from him. They leave an artists name on their buyout products, even if they leave.

There's only one reason he could have been waiting for Daz's M4 release, so he could potentially damage M4's success by offering apollo 2008 for free.

At one point, Daz was talking about litigating Anton for slanderous remarks as a last resort to quiet him down.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Quote - I have been reading this forum and was wondering if anyone could tell me what Anton's problem was with the stores.

Seriously don't go there.
While there may still be some details in threads in various forums, it's best to let them lie, as they'll only give you a poor understanding of what the situation was.

Quote - ... and they seem to be closed.

They're moving hosting services and software, so they'll be back when thats done.

An artist must often sell their soul to the proverbial devil in order to turn a profit.

Do the impossible, see the invisible

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

Touch the untouchable, break the unbreakable

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

LOL.. or die!

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

*At one point, Daz was talking about litigating Anton for slanderous remarks as a last resort to quiet him down.

Holy cow! I didn't know that. I do know Anton had a hatred for Daz. It was a shame cause hatred often destroys ones creativety

It seems slightly unfair talking about someone in public when they're not here (and from what I understand have no wish to be any longer) to defend themselves. sigh...theres always someone ready to jump in on the negatives.
IMO Apollo is still streets ahead of most Poser figures in very many respects that haven't changed from the core version relesed in 2005 - a far more relevant legacy than all that other stuff (about which few people Actually know very much about).

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com

Quote - "While there may still be some details in threads in various forums, it's best to let them lie, as they'll only give you a poor understanding of what the situation was."

I would like a good understanding of what the situation was not a poor understanding. So I will ask again - What was Anton's problem with the stores? He had a great product and probably could have sold it instead of giving it away for free. He decided to give Apollo away, so I do not see what kind of problem he could have with stores if he wanted to sell add ons for Apollo?

"...about which few people Actually know very much about..."

Trust me, you're not going to get a good understanding and it's best left alone.

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com

*I would like a good understanding of what the situation was not a poor understanding.

Daz was thinkin' of liquidatin' him.

This forum is not worth visiting again. When a member (carodan) decides what people can know or not know, then I need to find a more knowledgeable source of information. All I wanted to know was what was the problem with Apollo and Anton. I happen to like Apollo and use the guy in many renders. He is versatile. I purchased Captain Quinn and have never seen a duel type character for any Poser or Daz character. I use Vue and Captain Quinn renders like a pro after I import him. Even if Anton wants twice what the going rate is for an item, it is my decision to buy or not. If Anton decides to sell Apollo instead of giving him away, it is my decision to buy or not. It is always my decision. "carodan" should not tell people what they should know or not know. People can make up their own minds what to believe. Not all of us are that easily brainwashed.

Quote - I have been reading this forum and was wondering if anyone could tell me what Anton's problem was with the stores.

Most of what people are saying about antons supposed 'problems' with other stores is a pretty gross exaggeration mostly based on hear-say, and various people reading emotionally charged froum rants.

Anton is very intelligent, innovative in his work when he was involved with 3D (the part I'm familiar with), and also outspoken. When someone is outspoken (and usually right), there's always a group of people whom don't like it much.... especially when they copy and/or build on Anton's innovations, and act like they invented the concept.

I seem to remember Garee and Anton having some direct spats, but.. it takes two to tango. I like both of them to pieces, but that doesn't man they're going to get along with each other. A bit like two Tomcats with a dominant streak facing each other...

As far as I know, Anton no longer actively does 3D work, he's moved onto bigger and better business pastures.

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Quote -
This forum is not worth visiting again. When a member (carodan) decides what people can know or not know, then I need to find a more knowledgeable source of information. All I wanted to know was what was the problem with Apollo and Anton. I happen to like Apollo and use the guy in many renders. He is versatile. I purchased Captain Quinn and have never seen a duel type character for any Poser or Daz character. I use Vue and Captain Quinn renders like a pro after I import him. Even if Anton wants twice what the going rate is for an item, it is my decision to buy or not. If Anton decides to sell Apollo instead of giving him away, it is my decision to buy or not. It is always my decision. "carodan" should not tell people what they should know or not know. People can make up their own minds what to believe. Not all of us are that easily brainwashed.

Carodan knows Anton personally, really really well, and AFAIK, has known him for quite while. He'd be very credible source of information.

You'll have to forgive him for getting outspoken when he sees too much of unfairly negative stuff pop up.

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Quote - Quote - "While there may still be some details in threads in various forums, it's best to let them lie, as they'll only give you a poor understanding of what the situation was."

I would like a good understanding of what the situation was not a poor understanding. So I will ask again - What was Anton's problem with the stores? He had a great product and probably could have sold it instead of giving it away for free. He decided to give Apollo away, so I do not see what kind of problem he could have with stores if he wanted to sell add ons for Apollo?

When they speak of "problems" most people are refering to Anton being outspoken, and standing his ground to protect his rights and creations. As I said, being smart and innovative, everyone wanted a piece of him, and to act like they had him 'under their wing' and take credit for supposedly fostering his success. My perception was that Anton knew he and his creations were strong enough to stand on their own, and prefered not to be assimilated into being a 'poster boy' for any particular brokerage. People don't like being told "no", and usually rather quickly come up with this or that reason to vilify those whom did tell them no.

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*I happen to like Apollo and use the guy in many renders. He is versatile.

I wish Anton's " friends " felt the same way. A lot of them abandoned Apollo for Mike4.

I was a witness to the sad history of Anton Kissel in the world of poser
Unless you were "there" to witness it ,as Garee ,myself and many long timers here were,then you will never be able for form an objective opinion about the what &why.

His Bitter "Divorce" from Daz seemed to have some life changing effect on him
and after that it was one irrational paranoid persecution/product theft conspiracy after another.

All i can say is that he became" too involved" in his product and his seemingly eager community of supporters and started an Ill timed
"Jihad' against DAZ inc. at a time when the ideological Divide between poser loyalist and emerging Daz loyalist was really starting to "heat up"

Despite the fact that he failed to truly inspire and angry mob of villagers to rally to his "cause"
and storm Castle Draper with torches & Pitchforks in hand,he defiantly battled on at nearly every opportunity.

This made him a very "divisive "&negative element within the various Forum communities
and many just grew Weary of the predictable and repetitive Drama/flame wars/locked& deleted threads surrounding his 'Issues".

this is as Polite as I can express my view of it.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote - *I happen to like Apollo and use the guy in many renders. He is versatile.

I wish Anton's " friends " felt the same way. A lot of them abandoned Apollo for Mike4.

Anton doesn't insist that his friends support only Apollo and no other figure. Its' a fact that there aren't anywhere near as many active Apollo users as there are of M4 or V4, and if one of Anton's frioends is also a vendor, Anton doesn't insist that only Apollo is supported.

No content vendor can exist on supporting Apollo alone. That's just a fact in this business.
Most of us regular people (and content vendors) don't get annuity payments to supplement our income (or lack of it), to be able to give everything away for free, or to pursue full time support of figures that can't pay the bills.

Feeling friendships, and having to pay bills and support one's self has to be prioritized, and it goes both ways. No friend will insist or guilt you when you have to do things to support yourself (as long as they're not criminal or grossly unethical). Anton doesn't require this of his friends.

I know that for a fact, as he and I had a conversation about this, and it was Anton himself that steered me away from feeling guilty that I need to make few V4 or M4 pieces in order to make a little bit of money (like maybe $5 per hour instead of $2 per hour). I was feeling particularly guilty because Anton taught me a few things about rigging, and was extremely helpful when I was making the Apollo Wizard Robe. To paraphrase what he told me: 'You can't make it as a vendor supporting Aopollo alone'

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BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Quote - I was a witness to the sad history of Anton Kissel in the world of poser
Unless you were "there" to witness it ,as Garee ,myself and many long timers here were,then you will never be able for form an objective opinion about the what &why.

His Bitter "Divorce" from Daz seemed to have some life changing effect on him
and after that it was one irrational paranoid persecution/product theft conspiracy after another.

All i can say is that he became" too involved" in his product and his seemingly eager community of supporters and started an Ill timed
"Jihad' against DAZ inc. at a time when the ideological Divide between poser loyalist and emerging Daz loyalist was really starting to "heat up"

Despite the fact that he failed to truly inspire and angry mob of villagers to rally to his "cause"
and storm Castle Draper with torches & Pitchforks in hand,he defiantly battled on at nearly every opportunity.

This made him a very "divisive "&negative element within the various Forum communities
and many just grew Weary of the predictable and repetitive Drama/flame wars/locked& deleted threads surrounding his 'Issues".

this is as Polite as I can express my view of it.

Cheers

I suppose when this thread gets locked, that too will be Anton's fault, even though he never set his foot ion it. kitty shakes head

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Quote -
This forum is not worth visiting again. When a member (carodan) decides what people can know or not know, then I need to find a more knowledgeable source of information. All I wanted to know was what was the problem with Apollo and Anton. I happen to like Apollo and use the guy in many renders. He is versatile. I purchased Captain Quinn and have never seen a duel type character for any Poser or Daz character. I use Vue and Captain Quinn renders like a pro after I import him. Even if Anton wants twice what the going rate is for an item, it is my decision to buy or not. If Anton decides to sell Apollo instead of giving him away, it is my decision to buy or not. It is always my decision. "carodan" should not tell people what they should know or not know. People can make up their own minds what to believe. Not all of us are that easily brainwashed.

It was just my opinion (maybe I should start using that disclaimer again). But that I had such power., MwaHaha!! Really (sighs again).

Apollo is free, is a great figure which I use almost exclusively for male renders, and I'll help as I always have in any way I can with information about using him.

I fail to see of what relevance anything else can be given that Anton is no longer involved in Poser content creation, other than gossip and rumor mongering (which I can see this thread has now degenerated into - sighs even more heavily).

P.S. I don't know Anton that well really, although I have spoken with him at length on several occasions by phone and via email, and I have always found him to be positive, intelligent, open, informative and entirely rational - even in tough times.

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com

Quote - [

I suppose when this thread gets locked, that too will be Anton's fault, even though he never set his foot ion it. kitty shakes head

I Disagree
If the thread gets locked it will be for the same Reason a "Bill Clinton'"or "Ronald Reagan
thread would get locked due to their remaining loyalist, supporters& enemies letting their tireless
Zeal push their posted comments beyond to rosity TOS

My website

YouTube Channel

* I fail to see of what relevance anything else can be given that Anton is no longer involved in Poser content creation, other than gossip and rumor mongering (which I can see this thread has now degenerated into - sighs even more heavily).

*This is really sad news. I consider Anton one of the greatest Poser-creators of the last years. I was hoping he would make a female counterpart for Apollo, but it seems that hope is in vain.
Considering the fact that he made Apollo one his own, while DAZ uses a whole team to create Mike4, you can only have admiration for his work.
Although there are others who make remarkably good characters, it feels like a real lost if Anton has given up. I hope he will return some day.

regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

*Although there are others who make remarkably good characters, it feels like a real lost if Anton has given up. I hope he will return some day.

Anton hasn't given up and he will be back.

Quote - > Quote - [

I suppose when this thread gets locked, that too will be Anton's fault, even though he never set his foot ion it. kitty shakes head

I Disagree
If the thread gets locked it will be for the same Reason a "Bill Clinton'"or "Ronald Reagan
thread would get locked due to their remaining loyalist, supporters& enemies letting their tireless
Zeal push their posted comments beyond to rosity TOS

I know, I was being sarcastic. (headshake was a hint)

I doubt the thread would be locked because of people saying positive stuff about Anton or anyone else for that matter. If it gets locked,it'll probably be because of people still trying to badmouth him.

...If I were a moderator here, I'd be making a post reminding people to refrain from badmouthing people, especially those whom aren't here... Luckily, I'm not.

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*Apollo is free, is a great figure which I use almost exclusively for male renders, and I'll help as I always have in any way I can with information about using him.

Thing is... Apollo is not only a great poser figure, he's a great 3d figure!

I suppose Appolo was Anton's brainchild. I can understand how people react when someone attacks on their children. I have had several real-life expiriences to know what damage can occur that when that happens.So I think no-one can blame him for that.
But perhaps that are only speculations.
Patorak, I think you're right, when he cools down, he will be back. Afterall, Poser, and 3D-creating in general, is an addiction which is hard to get rid off.

regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

*Patorak, I think you're right, when he cools down, he will be back. Afterall, Poser, and 3D-creating in general, is an addiction which is hard to get rid off.

I think when he gets over the hurt too.

That being said...Anton I would like to publicly apologize for teasing you about the hole in Apollo and for challenging you to make a female figure. I'm issuing this apology because I have the utmost respect for you and your creation. I hope you accept.

Likewise to Anton's critics, I challenge you all to ante up. let's see your figures.

I'm almost tempted to say: when I show you mine you show me yours, but in all respect, you make much better figures than I can ever dream off. I can make reasonable good architectural models like furniture, boats and houses, but making lifelike models like animals or people is a complete different story (this is a dutch translation to english, but after four whiskeys, I can't find the right expression, but I hope you'll get the point)
I know how to rig, I have a slighty knowledge of human proportion and anatomy, and I have some experience in freeform modelling, but putting it all to together is still very difficult for me.
That's one of the reasons why I have a great admiration for people who can think beyond the borders.

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

*I'm almost tempted to say: when I show you mine you show me yours * OK...I'll show you mine. Just don't tell our competitors...

Here's a preview of She-Orc.

Quote - ... then I need to find a more knowledgeable source of information.

Most (if not all) of the forum traces of the various disputes have been moved to what's known as the "memory hole" in the active forums (here, DAZ, CP, RDNA).
You'll still be able to find a few dangling strands over at PoserPros), and possibly some mentions at RFI or in the Thunderdome at old Renderotica.
Anything you find will be only a poor reflection of the original though.

I thought PoserPros was closed down.

*I can make reasonable good architectural models like furniture, boats and houses,

Bopper

You know I work in construction...big fan of Sullivan and early Wright...So, Let's see yours.

Quote - I thought PoserPros was closed down.

the forums are still open

*the forums are still open

I ain't been over there since " what's her name was crucified "

You all know Anton is right. We have a certain group here in our community that love tearing people down. Specially if they are making stuff that isn't daz related.

My last project, nothing spectaculair, I made this for a neighbour who wanted to built a third floor on his roof. Modelled in Rhino and rendered in Flamingo ( I dislike flamingo, but it works well with Rhino.

.... This getting so OT. ( ;-)

regards,

Bopper

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

Awesome! Your proportions are very pleasing to the eye. Have you made it available for Poser yet?

Quote - *the forums are still open

You all know Anton is right. We have a certain group here in our community that love tearing people down. Specially if they are making stuff that isn't daz related.

Just as there are people here who are so blindly loyal to certain high profile personalities to the point of near religious worship.

And they viciously attack anyone who dares to question anything about their "God"
or his/her Miraculous "gifts" to the poser community

even when said deity insists on committing Commercial suicide
by scaring nearly all but a few third party content creators away with
their melodramatic Self Exiles/triumphant returns from Exile and tedious&unrelenting blood fueds
with DAZ inc
so there are TWO sides to every Issue.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

*Just as there are people here who are so blindly loyal to certain high profile personalities to the point of near religious worship.

Up until Napoleon's day they used to be called the old guard.

Quote - My last project, nothing spectaculair, I made this for a neighbour who wanted to built a third floor on his roof. Modelled in Rhino and rendered in Flamingo ( I dislike flamingo, but it works well with Rhino.

.... This getting so OT. ( ;-)

regards,

Bopper

Very nice house Bopper.

Any chances of Apollo having IK on hands?

Passion is anger and love combined. So if it looks angry, give it some love!

*Any chances of Apollo having IK on hands?

What body parts does Apollo have in the IK chain?

Well well, I heard a good rumor yesterday. Don't know if it's true or not, but rumor has it there will not be an Apollo 2009 cause someone shrunk wrapped a mesh to Apollo and registered a copyright on it.

If this rumor is true, don't be bullied Anton, there is recourse to the law. Here http://www.eff.org/
and here http://copyfight.corante.com/

The major value of Apollo is not the mesh, it's the rigging and morphing work Anton put into it. If it was as simple as "shrinkwrap a sphere or a cylinder onto X figure" then obviously a whole lot more people would do that.

edit: of all people Patorak, YOU should realize how dumb that rumor is. You have modeled human anatomy, you know how crappy the result of just shrinkwrapping some geometry onto a figure would come out. Not to say that it can't be done, just - wow, there's no reason to do that.

My Freebies

*Well well, I heard a good rumor yesterday. Don't know if it's true or not, but rumor has it there will not be an Apollo 2009 cause someone shrunk wrapped a mesh to Apollo and registered a copyright on it.

*...and called it M4?

regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

M4 isn't proportioned terribly much like Apollo at all, and the mesh and rig are vastly different. Both have two arms and legs and a head, but that's about where the similarity ends.

My Freebies

Quote - M4 isn't proportioned terribly much like Apollo at all, and the mesh and rig are vastly different. Both have two arms and legs and a head, but that's about where the similarity ends.

and M4 Muscular anatomy is way more realistic
Apollo never muscled up like an actual human being and was therefore useless
for forensic/human anatomy works

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote - *Well well, I heard a good rumor yesterday. Don't know if it's true or not, but rumor has it there will not be an Apollo 2009 cause someone shrunk wrapped a mesh to Apollo and registered a copyright on it.

*...and called it M4?

regards,

Bopper.

I thought that was Clark?! =o)

I wouldn't go so far as to call M4 "realistic". The legs and front torso are okay, the back and armpit are just kind of a mess. In any case though, yes, vastly different from Apollo.

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Wolf359 - this superiority complex that you have has gotten tiresome for a long time. It seem that you pop into threads for no other reason to tarnish someone else's character or espouse some negative point of view.

A lot of people have been here for a long time. That's why when such conflicts occur in an open forum that people get hurt. For the aforementioned incident a lot of people who are friends had very different feelings about what happened. (Trekkie, I still love you and think you're great.) But it's time to move on. What an artist's relationship with various websites, or rather what people say that relationship is, really isn't anyone else's business.

M4 is a step forward for Daz due to the rigging and joint controlled morphs. However, a wider variety of realistic body morphs are possible with Apollo while M4 is more grounded in the default mesh. You have two choices for M4’s upper legs: utterly ripped or unrealistic. I suspect this limitation is due to the joint controlled morphs and though it might have been alleviated, low standards and blind loyalty of a customer base won’t necessarily inspire a committee of creators to the genius of taking pains. Whether I could do better myself remains to be seen, but it's really beside the point since Anton already has.

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Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Apollo Maximus