Not trying to start anything here, just curious as to what others think!

Just looked at the specs for the above and it looks impressive.
Is it about to kick Poser up the arse and take it's crown? Any thoughts?

It doesn't matter that much to me because I use Vue for rendering anyway so a new Poser won't impact me much but if Vue were to bring DSA import capability I might have to consider it.
Would really like to know where you think this is going, is there going to be a movement from Poser to DSA?

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

I don't know if there will be a shift en masse, but I know that I'm certainly intrigued by the feature set of DS3. Feels like succumbing to the Darkside though.

Not too keen to throw down $100 for something absolutely brand new and fresh out of beta.

My Freebies

Me either*, however, I still have my platinum club membership and with the exchange rate the smaller pay package comes in at a little over £30. Not at all sure if I would ever use the additional stuff in the lager package.

*although it didn't stop me with poser 6 & 7.

It does look appealing in many respects. It has made me start to look at least now. But I have my worries about how much flexibility there is with certain features.

Just as an example, and I haven't looked properly, but I believe the cloth options are limited in terms of what you can drape - in Poser I can make, convert  & drape just about anything within the limits of how geometry can work in the simulations. I like this - I like to recycle.

This is probably my misconception, but I always get the feeling that D/S limits certain options in order to twist the user's arm into buying something extra. This seems to be less the case with this version (hence the price for D/S Advanced, which I'm all in favour of and which appears very reasonable), but I'd need more convincing.

To date I've only seen 3 or 4 convincing renders that seem to use any of the features that Poser can't currently reproduce (SSS, Caustics, some kind of stable GI/radiosity)  - I'm surprised Daz didn't put out a lot more to try and temp us Poser users (which makes me a little cautious). Scouring the D/S galleries at Daz doesn't throw up many oustanding examples, but then neither do the Poser galleries here for what I'm interested in.

It'd just be a bit of a pain converting right now, having to take on yet another new GUI (I've used so many apps) and getting my head around the various changes in termimology (they alway mess with my brain somehow). I've never gotten on with D/S in the past and it's never stayed on my system for more than a week or so. But never say never.

SM certainly need to up their game in terms of certain material & rendering options at least IMO.
It may well be that the tide is about to start turning, but I think I'll sit a while and see.

 

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

                                      www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com

Quote - Not at all sure if I would ever use the additional stuff in the lager package.

As long as it is a good lager I'm sure you'd find something to do with it.

My Freebies

Quote - This is probably my misconception, but I always get the feeling that D/S limits certain options in order to twist the user's arm into buying something extra. This seems to be less the case with this version (hence the price for D/S Advanced, which I'm all in favour of and which appears very reasonable), but I'd need more convincing.

That's not a misconception, that's the way they've always pushed the plugins for DAZ|Studio.  The base version is "free" but really it's just an introduction to the DAZ store, they've always made their money off of brokering/selling content.  Frankly if they were REALLY clever they'd give the new version of D|S away truly for free and (unless it's terrible, which would be a bit of a surprise) suddenly "Poser Pro" would be junk.  The real problem with getting people to take Poser content seriously in the larger world is not the content itself, it's getting it into a render engine that doesn't produce 1990's quality results.  Video games render with higher quality than base D|S!

My Freebies

Quote - > Quote - Not at all sure if I would ever use the additional stuff in the lager package.

As long as it is a good lager I'm sure you'd find something to do with it.

Doh...clearly not enough coffee this morning,

Or maybe lager.

My Freebies

Maybe ;)

I plan to purchase D/S3 advanced, possibly the bundle. Only because I'm curious though. I would like to learn how to use it as well. Don't mind using many different apps. I have found that each will often do something much better than the others, so use the one which does what I want best for each project. Poser will probably always be my favorite between Poser and D/S if only because I started with it and have a certain fondness for it.

With BB working on incorporating VSS into Poser ( I think, just guessing :) I don't think I will be disappointed with the next Poser.

. 

A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

i think if you give the poser users area lights, SSS  and better shadows ,that then  they would make 5 times better renders than those renders from the new D/S3

i really think this.

Phantom3d take a very hard look at what is included in the bundle.  Most of the added cost is the figure setup tools (joint editor) that you already own if I remember correctly.

My Freebies

Working with the Beta, I was actually really impressed.  The Beta would render things that I couldn't render in the stable, pre 3.0 release, and do it faster than I expected, which is a HUGE bonus.  Because I didn't take and/or have the time to really delve into it like I wanted, I wasn't able to really get a handle on things I really wanted to use (like area lights and the shader mixer), but from what I've seen, they're impressive.

As moderator for both the Poser and DAZ Studio areas of the site, I get a unique perspective on different things.
In the DAZ Studio gallery, you'll see more animals and still life portraits.
In the Poser gallery, you'll see more figure portraits.

After having to mostly work with their own surface settings for the past few years, many DAZ studio users are a lot more willing to spend more time on a render, and many Poser images are obvious "Load and Render".  DAZ Studio users are, also, usually more forgiving than Poser users when something doesn't work to spec, and will fix it and send the fix to the vendor. (Granted, a lot of them are getting a bit more than ticked off that they have to do it, but, well, can ya blame them?  Especially if an item says "Tested in DS")

This may come as a shock to you guys, but I was totally geeked out last month to find that there were DAZ Studio artists (Igolochka and someone else, I forget now, and I left the magazine at my mom's) who were featured in 3D Artist magazine...and their work was, in fact, comparable to the images rendered in high-end applications, like 3DS Max and Cinema 4D.  Poser is advertised in at least 2 places (front inside cover and table of contents) in that magazine, but nothing Poser was featured.   I hope we have Poser artists that ARE trying to get their work featured in magazines, and I hope it's the best work they have, and I hope that it's comparable to renders in high-end apps.  It's possible, it really is.  We have the knowledge, it's shared here, FREELY, on a daily basis.  We have the knowledge to create professional grade works of art.  

Also, yes, take a GOOD look at the bundle.  While it's got a lot of good stuff in it, you may already have the stuff that's in it.  I have most of it already, so I'm not buying the larger bundle, but I will be getting the Advanced program when I get paid :)

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

That's true, I wonder if I get any discount. LOL

I don't even know what any of the rest of the items included in the bundle do really, so maybe I'll just get the advanced version. Unfortunately I had let my platinum club membership lapse. :(

I'm still saving money for Poser 8 and Cenema 4D too, might have to mortgage my house :lol:

. 

A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Don't do THAT ,Mike! In this economy, you'll be taken to the cleaners. Whether dirty or not! :laugh:

I agree with the basic philosophy if try it for new features if free. The UI makes my brain hurt, but I have different modeling apps because each one does work differently and do something better than another.  Also I hope the new D/S forces SM to bring their A game to this match!

I still haven't enough "WOW" and "OMG" from the reviewers to make me very excited about it. YET.  We'll see.

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An  inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!   

As long as a good number of figures do not work in D/S it isn't an alternative to Poser at all. Conforming clothes on a good number of figures is still a complete mess. Some of the features in D/S are very cool, but do I really want to pay for a good number of bugs and can I live without some of the figures that don't work well in D/S? No, I'm not going to pay for buggy frustration and I certainly can't live without some of the main figures I use that aren't supported by D/S.

Even though was impressed with D/S 3.0, it still has some major things that stop me from switching.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Which figures don't work in DS?  I've always gotten all of the figures I've purchased to work in DS, the CP figures, Apollo, obviously the DAZ characters. 

A lot of looking into .cr2's by users found that 90% of the errors people have in DS is because the figure maker didn't make it right and that Poser just ignores the flaw.  I look at calling for DS compatability more of a call for content creators to slow down and actually make quality, rather than shooting things out the pipeline for a quick buck.  You'll make more money with quality than you will with Quantity.  Several of the Top Sellers rarely put out more than one thing per month, if that often.  Why are they on top?  They do it right the first time, and, if necessary, fix what's broken when they're told it's broken, instead of telling people that their program is broken.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

It is true that Poser has basically no sanity checking when reading in mangled CR2s (or when writing them back out).  Although it may hurt in the rather unlikely event that they add some useful data integrity checking in patches or later versions - hope your ERC dials keep working ;)

My Freebies

Quote - Which figures don't work in DS?  I've always gotten all of the figures I've purchased to work in DS, the CP figures, Apollo, obviously the DAZ characters. 

A lot of looking into .cr2's by users found that 90% of the errors people have in DS is because the figure maker didn't make it right and that Poser just ignores the flaw.  I look at calling for DS compatability more of a call for content creators to slow down and actually make quality, rather than shooting things out the pipeline for a quick buck.  You'll make more money with quality than you will with Quantity.  Several of the Top Sellers rarely put out more than one thing per month, if that often.  Why are they on top?  They do it right the first time, and, if necessary, fix what's broken when they're told it's broken, instead of telling people that their program is broken.

I've got problems with a good number of the RDNA toon figures.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

What problems are you having?  I have a good number of the RDNA toon figures, so if something doesn't work, I might have a workaround for you :)

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I'm not that interested in it because DS kind of turned me off the first time I used it.  I really don't like the UI and I find that even selecting things can be difficult in that program.  Like when I add a clothing to the figure I can't always select the one I want to tweak  as intuitively as I can in poser.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

I'll wait a little bit till they work out the bugginess ;o).

Laurie

It's all about personal preference, WC :)  I've had people rave and talk up their favorite modeller as the END-ALL of modellers, and I can't get my head around the interface, let alone the tutorials, LOL.  

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I've been playing with the beta and it's definitely not a Poser killer for me. Of course that could be because I'm so used to Poser that D|S is totally foreign to me. I can't really say anything bad about the program because I don't really know how to use it, only that it's BECAUSE I can't use it that I'm so frustrated with it right now...LOL.

It's gonna take quite some time until I get used to it's nuances, whereas I've been using Poser so long that I'm comfortable there.

Laurie

Let me ask this of those who have tried the DS3 beta or even the official release...how comparable are the render times to Poser for similar scenes and similar render settings? 

Is DS3 faster or slower than Poser for scenes of roughly similar complexity? 

Also, a second question...is DS3 capable of network rendering? I haven't seen anything about that in the promo material I've seen.

Posermocap - Motion Capture animations for Poser and Daz3D.

Jenx, I'm not sure I agree with you, I personally think that the fact some figures work in Poser and don;t in D/S because the CR2 programing isn;t "correct" is an indication that D/S is "better" just that it's less flexible. This isn;t necessarily a negative for D/S but it's certainly not a plus either.

On the other hand some features of D/S (free or the new 3 version) look very useful and in some ways better than Poser, concideiring they had years of Poser use to learn from this isn;t unexpected (unfortunatly the last few owners of Poser haven;t had it long enough, or maybe haven;t been as interested in the "community" enough to learn the same lessons).

One MAJOR drawback I see in D/S (both versions) are with dynamic cloth. Yeah DAZ finally released a dynamic plug-in BUT you can only use clothing/content created by the same company that made the plug-in, as I'm vertually certain that even the clothing with DAZ listed as the vendor were made by OptiTex. So far there are only a relative few items created to use D/S dynamics and compared to Poser dynamic clothing ( especially when you concider almost ANY clothing can be converted to work in Poser's cloth room) they are fairly expensive. With a virtual monopoly I doubt this will change.

I know DAZ has mentioned the possibility of a "creator's module" to allow other content creators to make clothing but I've heard rumors it may never happen, and even if it does the CONTROL module is about $50 without discounts, how much do you suppose the "Creation" module will cost?

As it is, I'm on the fence. I've bought the  D/S Advanced software in order to learn it and it's content creation requirements ( the demo just hasn;t given me enough time to learn it). I think we are seeing the beginning of a split between Poser content and D/S content that will only continue to grow. D/S 3 Advanced introduces it;s own shader mixer, for example, so future content will have to take that into account, how different is it from Posers and how much work will be needed to create seperate shaders for both programs?

If the Cr2's continue to diverge, creating the need for MORE seperate files, how long can/will creators continue to supply dual use content? Will we see a time when there will be seperate suppor for each program, or will one program "win" and the other fade away?

I wasn't stating whether or not it was a plus, just that the reason that some figures don't work is that the cr2's weren't written properly in the first place.  It wasn't actually an opinion, just a statement as to why.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote -

Also, a second question...is DS3 capable of network rendering? I haven't seen anything about that in the promo material I've seen.

if DS3 is still using the 3Delight Engine, then there's a licensing issue that prevents network rendering.

the issue being you get 1 seat free, then it costs after that. about a grand a time...

to quote from 3Delight :

The first 3Delight license is free of charge. This is a fully functional two threads license that is liable for commercial use and can be downloaded here. No support is included with the free license but can be purchased for 250 USD.

For all additional licenses:
 

• The cost is 1,000 USD for a two threads license and 1,500 USD for a four threads license.
• Support is 190 USD per license per year for the two threads license and 285 USD for the four threads license. Support includes free upgrades and e-mail support.
• All licenses are floating.

this is also why I can't install DS anyway... I use 3Delight with trueSpace...

Quote - The first 3Delight license is free of charge. This is a fully functional two threads license that is liable for commercial use and can be downloaded here. No support is included with the free license but can be purchased for 250 USD. For all additional licenses:
 

• The cost is 1,000 USD for a two threads license and 1,500 USD for a four threads license.
• Support is 190 USD per license per year for the two threads license and 285 USD for the four threads license. Support includes free upgrades and e-mail support.
• All licenses are floating.

Kaibach, thanks for the information. The 3Delight engine licensing pushes the costs for me using DS3 for animation right out of consideration--not when there are more cost-effective alternatives.

Posermocap - Motion Capture animations for Poser and Daz3D.

Quote - Let me ask this of those who have tried the DS3 beta or even the official release...how comparable are the render times to Poser for similar scenes and similar render settings? 

Is DS3 faster or slower than Poser for scenes of roughly similar complexity? 

Also, a second question...is DS3 capable of network rendering? I haven't seen anything about that in the promo material I've seen.

What do you mean by complexity?  Our definitions may differ.  

I find that refraction in DS does take slightly longer on my system, but not hours longer, maybe 10-15 minutes.  I'll try to do a side-by-side in a little while. 
I still can't find a way to render displacement in a mirror in Poser 7.  This may have been fixed in Poser Pro, but I don't have that.  DS has had that since the original beta.  

As for network rendering, like Kaibach said, that's all up to the 3Dlight license.  This comes down to the "If you want it bad enough, are you willing to pay for it" idea.  Sure, network rendering is available in Poser Pro, but it's only useful if you use it.  But, I do think that there are things that DAZ is shooting itself in the foot with.  Dynamic Cloth is Windows Only.  3Delight has a restrictive license.  I can see these two things biting them in the butt more than anything else.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

It looks like something that you could create content from right out of the box without plugins if you wanted to. It looks interesting for sure, but the interface makes me nuts, but I think if I would have used D|S first, Poser would be impossible...LOL.

Someone said in another topic that D|S users have an incredibly hard time with Poser. I assume that's because of the weird Poser interface (which took me a long time to adjust to BTW). D|S interface, I must admit, makes much more sense.

Laurie

Plus, another part that annoys me to no end is the "you can put your content wherever you want".  I have to have things organized a certain way, and, if a content creator puts their stuff wherever, it totally effs up my workflow.  That's a HUGE part of why a lot of DS users I've helped can't figure out Poser.  There's a certain way to do things, and they can't get their head around it.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - Plus, another part that annoys me to no end is the "you can put your content wherever you want".  I have to have things organized a certain way, and, if a content creator puts their stuff wherever, it totally effs up my workflow.  That's a HUGE part of why a lot of DS users I've helped can't figure out Poser.  There's a certain way to do things, and they can't get their head around it.

I suppose that works both directions ;o). Poser users have a hard time getting D|S and D|S users have a hard time getting Poser. To each his own it will be then I guess. Either way, if one bought D|S 3 advanced at the introductory price, it wouldn't be a bad tool to have if maybe you'd like to try and learn it.

Laurie

I think one reason some Poser users find the DS interface off-putting is maybe because they approach it as another version of Poser. I've used Poser for 12 years and DS for 4 (? - since the 1st alpha) and I slowly became familiar with it along the way.  But now I'm so used to all it's conveniences, that I find Poser very limited (in terms of it's UI, I mean).

In DS, I can build my own toolbars, add my own icons, assign shortcuts to almost any command or UI element, add folders as shortcuts to a menu (Poseworks free Favorites script), create my own 'rooms' and populate them with the tabs I want, and a bunch of other things.

What I'm saying is, DS isn't Poser, and if you expect to find a lighting trackball, you'll be sorely disappointed. But it has many compensations, and my workflow is way faster in DS.

And btw, you don't need to buy DS Advanced. There's a free version too. It doesn't have a lot of the advanced capaibilites, but it can use them. For example, Shader Mixer presets work fine in the free version.

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is DS 64-bit, which (so I'm told) is a 'true' 64-bit app. I'm still on 32-bit so I don't know the ins and outs of this, but I believe Poser doesn't utilise the full 64-bit capability? If I'm wrong on that, I'm willing to be corrected. I'm only going by what I've heard.

One thing's sure. If Poser gets sold off to yet another owner, (and believe me, I hope that won't happen!), I take comfort in the fact that I already have a good alternative.

mac

It looks like D/S has come along way.
Good to see a Diversity and more option for users of poser content

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

 I like the fact that Daz appears to have raised the bar in certain aspects of Studio higher then Poser. Plus the fact that Studio 3.0A is out now instead of later and gives the Poser programmers time to study it and react with Poser 8.

I am a racer as my main hobby. When somebody throws down a fast lap they raise the bar and everybody has to react and try harder to go faster or they are going to get their butts kicked.

Going to be interesting to see how the Poser Programmers react to Studio 3.0A when Poser 8 is released. 

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

grichter:  That was your 666th post! Twilight zone 

. 

A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote -
One MAJOR drawback I see in D/S (both versions) are with dynamic cloth. Yeah DAZ finally released a dynamic plug-in BUT you can only use clothing/content created by the same company that made the plug-in, as I'm vertually certain that even the clothing with DAZ listed as the vendor were made by OptiTex. So far there are only a relative few items created to use D/S dynamics and compared to Poser dynamic clothing ( especially when you concider almost ANY clothing can be converted to work in Poser's cloth room) they are fairly expensive.

DAZ has stated that they are working on the ability to use almost any clothing/content in the  Dynamic Clothing Control.

Quote - I know DAZ has mentioned the possibility of a "creator's module" to allow other content creators to make clothing but I've heard rumors it may never happen,

They've been working on the creator's module for a while now.

Quote - Dynamic Cloth is Windows Only.

Optitex stated that they will be making Dynamic Clothing Control for Mac.

Coldrake

Quote - grichter:  That was your 666th post! Twilight zone 

The devil made me do it or whatever the exact quote Flip Wilson was famous for!

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

coldrake, I've read the DAZ forums too. I hope that the creator's module is made. Still it cost about $50.00 to add on the control module now and I'm sure that a creator's module will be even more, for something that comes as part of the basic poser package.

I have to wonder just how fast OptiTex is working on a creator's module since right now they have a captive market for their dynamic clothing. I would have felt better if both modul had been made available at the same time.

Quote -

Video games render with higher quality than base D|S!

Actually base DS produces great renders.
Unfortunately, much like poser, lot of DS users don't use it's ability well.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

By the way, with the larger package, if you already have those add-ons, their DS3 update was free.
I actually only have and use the figure setup tools. I don't really have thet much of use for others.

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Let me see if I've got this straight... Daz Studio now has a 64 bit version, but the renderer is limited to one processor (without extraordinary expense and additional licenses for a substandard renderer that doesn't even have GI or Radiosity.) Meanwhile Daz's Carrara already has GI, radiosity and can use four processors, but there is no 64 bit version. 

Ideally, Daz wouldn't have to waste time reinventing the wheel. If they already own a superior renderer with Carrara, why are they wasting time on 3d Delight? If Daz Studio can handle ERC, why can't they get it right in Carrara? The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing, or how the left hand is doing, it seems.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Quote -
Let me see if I've got this straight... Daz Studio now has a 64 bit version, but the renderer ... doesn't even have GI or Radiosity.

Wrong. You may be thinking of Poser Pro. Daz|Studio 3 (via 3Delight) features global illumination, caustics, and subsurface scattering.

Quote -
If they already own a superior renderer with Carrara, why are they wasting time on 3d Delight?

Carrara's renderer isn't superior to 3Delight, although it does have definite advantages for hobbyist users. The reasons they aren't integrating Carrara's renderer into Daz|Studio are:
(1) Carrara's renderer is very tightly integrated with the rest of Carrara's codebase, and
(2) It would also require a major rewrite of Studio itself in order to integrate such a different renderer.

You should also know that up until recently, I've been heavily biased in favor of Poser. And yes, Smith Micro will need to bring their A game this time.

Quote - > Quote - ...You should also know that up until recently, I've been heavily biased in favor of Poser. And yes, Smith Micro will need to bring their A game this time.

They sure didn't bring their A game with Poser 7. I'm really disappointed in it. I thought it would be at least as good as Poser 6, but 6 doesn't choke my machine like 7 does (and it's not the fastest or greatest, but it's not bad). Daz Studio 3 beta didn't do to my machine what Poser 7 does.

Laurie

I'm glad I'm wrong about the GI. Up until now, 3D Delight in Daz Studio hasn't had this feature. Still, the one-processor limit (without an insane expenditure) is a major weakness--64 bit version notwithstanding. This gives Poser 8 a real chance. 

Being able to use four processors right out of the box gives the Carrara renderer a major advantage over Daz Studio's 3D Delight. The possibility that Daz Studio users might be willing or able to pay thousands of dollars for multiple processor rendering is farfetched. 

It’s interesting that Carrara, a product marketed as an alternative to high-end programs, doesn't have a 64 bit version while Daz Studio does.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Quote - Still, the one-processor limit (without an insane expenditure) is a major weakness--64 bit version notwithstanding.

The limitation seems to be per physical CPU, not per core. If you have a quad core CPU, it will use all of them in the render. So the limitation isn't as bad as it may seem. eg this is the default example scene you get with the demo rendering on all 4 of my cores:

As for 3Delight, just because DAZ have it, you shouldn't think it's one of those penny ante renderers that usually show up in the poserverse. 3Delight is one of the most impressive renderers out there that competes with the likes of mentalray and PRMan. In fact it's been used as the main renderer for several big budget movies, 2 recent ones being superman returns and charlotte's web. See the site for yourself:

3Delight Main Site

The 64 bit version of Carrara is currently being worked on.  from what I gather the codebase has already been recompiled to 64bit and is currently undergoing testing. This information comes directly from a member of the daz development teem.

So hopefully we should see 64bit Carrara in a 7.5 release I would imagine.

SK.

The update for the figure setup tools - the only part of D|S that I actually use - was free and with my Platinum Club membership and pending vouchers the Advanced version didn't end up costing me much, so I thought what the hell, and just got.

My first impression: much slower than 2.3, and the stuff I used to do doesn't work anymore. The slowness could be because it's more memory hungry, and since I run Windows via Virtualbox, I'm a bit limited in that respect. But I don't think there's any way to discuss the bugs away. I guess I'll just sit tight and wait until they've got things running smoothly.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.

I personally  think that the DAZ business model
is not even partly based on stealing away existing poser users.
They seem to be only interested in building a Fresh loyal DAZ Studio user base with their free version used as a gateway to get newbies hooked on hoarding largely redundant content and then enticing them into buying the paid versions of studio with cleve rpromo "sales" and other gimmicks.

if you visit the DAZ forums you rarely find people who left poser for D/S
most of them were never serious poser users to begin with.

S/M would be better served by Not trying to compete with D/S  Directly and focus on retooling&refreshing poser in a way that will will get its EXISTING users excited about upgrading.

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I agree with you, but still there are some features (especially in the department of posing) that work so much easier then in poser. I'll doubt I'll ever go for D/S and leave Poser (too much invested into it), but seeing something like easypose in Poser would be very helpful.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Quote - I agree with you, but still there are some features (especially in the department of posing) that work so much easier then in poser. I'll doubt I'll ever go for D/S and leave Poser (too much invested into it), but seeing something like easypose in Poser would be very helpful.

Agreed and as an animator I must say that aniMate+ is an incredibly useful tool for
putting together complex  character animations quickly
and the FREE DS 3 base comes with a stripped down version of "aniMate" included.

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Quote - I'm glad I'm wrong about the GI. Up until now, 3D Delight in Daz Studio hasn't had this feature. Still, the one-processor limit (without an insane expenditure) is a major weakness--64 bit version notwithstanding. . 

What exactly are you talking about? What insane expenditure? $40 bucks?
Where are you getting this one processor limit? DS has had multi threaded rendering for some time now.
Can you point me to your sources, because I can't find the same info on DAZ site.

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"One processor" is not the same as "one core".  The way (for example) Windows licenses are handled is each license works on "two processors" - regardless of how many cores each processor has.

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Quote - > Quote - I'm glad I'm wrong about the GI. Up until now, 3D Delight in Daz Studio hasn't had this feature. Still, the one-processor limit (without an insane expenditure) is a major weakness--64 bit version notwithstanding. . 

What exactly are you talking about? What insane expenditure? $40 bucks?
Where are you getting this one processor limit? DS has had multi threaded rendering for some time now.
Can you point me to your sources, because I can't find the same info on DAZ site.

*to quote from 3Delight :

The first 3Delight license is free of charge. This is a fully functional two threads license that is liable for commercial use and can be downloaded * here*. No support is included with the free license but can be purchased for 250 USD.*

*For all additional licenses:
 
*- The cost is 1,000 USD for a two threads license and 1,500 USD for a four threads license.

• Support is 190 USD per license per year for the two threads license and 285 USD for the four threads license. Support includes free upgrades and e-mail support.
• All licenses are floating.

Daz Studio counts as 1 3Delight License. looks like Daz made a deal to increase the threads, but the additionals still cost...

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I'm glad I'm wrong about the GI. Up until now, 3D Delight in Daz Studio hasn't had this feature. Still, the one-processor limit (without an insane expenditure) is a major weakness--64 bit version notwithstanding. . 

What exactly are you talking about? What insane expenditure? $40 bucks?
Where are you getting this one processor limit? DS has had multi threaded rendering for some time now.
Can you point me to your sources, because I can't find the same info on DAZ site.

*to quote from 3Delight :

The first 3Delight license is free of charge. This is a fully functional two threads license that is liable for commercial use and can be downloaded * here*. No support is included with the free license but can be purchased for 250 USD.*

*For all additional licenses:
 
*- The cost is 1,000 USD for a two threads license and 1,500 USD for a four threads license.

• Support is 190 USD per license per year for the two threads license and 285 USD for the four threads license. Support includes free upgrades and e-mail support.
• All licenses are floating.

Daz Studio counts as 1 3Delight License. looks like Daz made a deal to increase the threads, but the additionals still cost...

You're not buying the license from 3Delight. You seem to be reading something that doesn't apply to DAZ. That's total misinformation.

40 dollar versions of Daz Studio 3, both 32 and 64 bit versions render on four threads (on quad core computers) that I've seen, with no additional renderer purchase.

Sounds like you guys are talking about 3D Delight  plugin for Maya or Max or one of those, which has nothing to do with what's included with DAZ Studio.

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no I'm talking about 3Delight as quoted by their site.

please don't tell me what I'm saying. thats very annoying.

and yes it IS included with Daz Studio. I remember when 3Delight changed their Licencing and it affected Daz's use in Daz Studio so I DO know what I'm talking about.

so I'm NOT spreading 'disinformation' at all.

I am quoting facts as they have been presented over time.

Connie, what he's saying is that you can only run the ONE copy of 3Delight, regardless of how you got it. It's the license, and it's in the license agreement that you agree to when you install DS.  What's being confused is multi-processor and multi-core.  If you want to run it on separate processes, you have to buy another license, per the license agreement.  If you want to render using multiple cores, you just have to be running an OS capable of using as many as you have.

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Quote - Connie, what he's saying is that you can only run the ONE copy of 3Delight, regardless of how you got it. It's the license, and it's in the license agreement that you agree to when you install DS.  What's being confused is multi-processor and multi-core.  If you want to run it on separate processes, you have to buy another license, per the license agreement.  If you want to render using multiple cores, you just have to be running an OS capable of using as many as you have.

Yea, I know. Where misinformation comes in a form of omission. These statements already confused a bunch of people whom don't differentiate between those two, and are being led to believe that they have to shell out a thousand dollars to be able to use more then one thread on a quad core processor.
Let's be realistic here, large part of poserdom isn't very likely to have the ability or the need for multi processor use.

Sort of like saying, OMG, Poser doesn't do modeling, and if you want to do modeling, you have to spend a thousand dollars on another application.  :rolleyes:
See what I'm getting at?

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The limitation in Daz Studio's 3delight renderer license is just the lack of network rendering. If you have a multi-processor system like Xeon or the new Mac Pro, daz studio(provided the OS also supports it) can make use of both processors and all cores.

Anyone know if the new DS3 handles python scripting? (I use a lot of Python utilities in poser)
Can the DS3 renderer handle ambient occlusion?

in case users want area lites in poser, this is what an area lite currently looks like in poser.  I converted the cloth plane (upper left) into a lite emitter with medium-quality poser GI settings. no actual poser directional nor IBL lites used.  the beta testers may be able to clarify whether caustics and area lites work better than this in poser 8.  currently no way to specify shadows with an area lite, but FFRender tries to calculate them to the best of its ability.  the more polygons, the better. it's possible that ds3 also creates area lites by converting a surface into a lite emitter.

DS3 does not use python scripting that I am aware of.  3Delight has always been able to render ambient occlusion, but, until Dreamlight's lightscripts came out, DS's was all material based, and even that was based on plugins from Poseworks. 

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Quote - Anyone know if the new DS3 handles python scripting? (I use a lot of Python utilities in poser)
Can the DS3 renderer handle ambient occlusion?

DS has it's own scripting, different from python.

DS3Advanced has several lights and environments included with it, which give you AO, DOF, GI and IBL, soft shadows, light edge falloff, color bleeding and even volumetric lighting. (I saw a blurb somewhere about caustics too, but I'm not sure about that yet) It has Gamma correction too. That's the $40 version.

I haven't tried the free version, so I don't know if all of this is included or not.

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Actually, Connie, all of those lighting settings are in the basic DS, and Gamma Correction is in the render settings, and you can set the degree of correction you want. ;)

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Quote - Actually, Connie, all of those lighting settings are in the basic DS, and Gamma Correction is in the render settings, and you can set the degree of correction you want. ;)

Cool, Even better!

If anyone is curious, I just made a render with it - it's by no means a really good render taking good advantage of all of it's abilities.  It's more like what you get with about 20 minutes of fiddling... sort of an average result.
It's a mix of low intensity whit-ish IBL, single spotlight and 'uber surface' shader on the skin with almost no tweaks. I think Uber curface somes with the free version too?

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1901886

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Yup, I'm posting some screenshots now (sorry, had to wait for a render to cancel, lol.)

Here are the area lights.  I'm still learning how to use them, so, no example shots yet, lol.

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Here's just a small portion of the AO lighting available with Uber Environment (an excellent setup that is included with DS3)

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And, here are the render settings.  Note:  These are the default settings.

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I love the "Uber environment"  That's the one that does AO and IBL, just depending on which setting is turned on or off.

What I really like is that AO doesn't have to be set by material. (Like we have to in Poser, for best results)

Another thing I really like about DS is the ability to select multiple materials and change shader settings all at once. Same with posing and morphing body parts, and placing items in the scene. For me, it makes the scene building work much faster.

Believe it or not, I've encountered more then one piece out there that is not super conforming, and morph dials are not at the body level, but in individual body parts. In Poser, that would drive me batty. In DS, it's no big deal.

Anyway, those are all the little reasons I'm gravitating towards DS and away from Poser more and more.

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Quote - in case users want area lites in poser, this is what an area lite currently looks like in poser.  I converted the cloth plane (upper left) into a lite emitter with medium-quality poser GI settings.

GI is not the same as area lighting, having a surface that emits an ambient color is just GI.  Area lights and area shadows are a function of raytracing that is independent of GI.  This is why you "can't control shadows" with ambient color.

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Quote - > Quote - This is probably my misconception, but I always get the feeling that D/S limits certain options in order to twist the user's arm into buying something extra. This seems to be less the case with this version (hence the price for D/S Advanced, which I'm all in favour of and which appears very reasonable), but I'd need more convincing.

That's not a misconception, that's the way they've always pushed the plugins for DAZ|Studio.  The base version is "free" but really it's just an introduction to the DAZ store, they've always made their money off of brokering/selling content.  Frankly if they were REALLY clever they'd give the new version of D|S away truly for free and (unless it's terrible, which would be a bit of a surprise) suddenly "Poser Pro" would be junk.  The real problem with getting people to take Poser content seriously in the larger world is not the content itself, it's getting it into a render engine that doesn't produce 1990's quality results.  Video games render with higher quality than base D|S!

I thought Poser started the whole content thing.  No other program can output a rigged Poser figure, nor can it read one from any other program either.  Even little things like edge creases and poly groups are so specific to the way it works as to necessitate 3rd party tools and editors.  
As for giving away D|S Pro, why would they?  They've been giving away the regular version for years and I assume will continue to do so.  That's all they need to get people hooked on content and then they can start grooming them to buy the Pro version later.  

Many modern video games do render better than base Studio, and also quite faster than firefly.  Yet it seems like I'm the only one here who thinks that Poser's OpenGL viewport should be brought up to Unreal Engine 3 quality so that I could render animations in near-real time.  Bumpmaps and soft shadows in the viewport are all I've ever asked for, but don't seem to be of any use to anyone else here.

Actually DAZ has rigging tools now that can output a rigged Poser figure, although the point I was making was that D|S has mainly been used to get people hooked on their content (which you got) and offering a GI-capable version FREE would be a rather massive boost to that money stream (which you didn't get).  The very large improvement in image appeal that you get with minimal effort when working with GI would mean their Poser content - which is overwhelmingly their main revenue, not D|S plugins - would be shown in a far better light by many more people, making that content more attractive and thus making big bags of money.  Pun intented ;)

Certainly some people will buy the GI-capable version, but I'll bet you literally 10 times as many will stick with the free one.

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o.k., thx fr the info, pj.  I tried the poser area light with raytracing unchecked, and there was no illumination (black scene).  however, yer correct: according to one of the developers, GI includes any lighting effects where light is being transferred from one surface to another surface (area light, caustics (indirect specular), radiosity (indirect diffuse), reflections, refractions, et al.).  so it means that an area light is a GI fx, but that GI fx require raytracing calculations.  it's possible that there's no shadow options with the new daz area lights, either.  in versions prior to poser 8, they allowed the users to select shadow options for directional lights, which means they could select wrong, bad or no shadows.

"it's possible that there's no shadow options with the new daz area lights, either"

There are shadows for area lights in DS. All you do is add a Shadow brick (aka node in Poser) and connect it to the area light brick.

It'll add considerably to the render time, of course.

mac

Quote - Actually DAZ has rigging tools now that can output a rigged Poser figure, although the point I was making was that D|S has mainly been used to get people hooked on their content (which you got) and offering a GI-capable version FREE would be a rather massive boost to that money stream (which you didn't get).  The very large improvement in image appeal that you get with minimal effort when working with GI would mean their Poser content - which is overwhelmingly their main revenue, not D|S plugins - would be shown in a far better light by many more people, making that content more attractive and thus making big bags of money.  Pun intented ;)

Certainly some people will buy the GI-capable version, but I'll bet you literally 10 times as many will stick with the free one.

I got it, but I wasn't sure if I agreed with it.  You make a good point, that better renders equals happier users, and that happier users will stick with the hobby and likely buy more new content.  I think their assumption (as well as mine) is that GI is a feature many new users might not see the value of initially, though they would no doubt notice the increased render times.  It surely can't be easy deciding which features should be in the free version and which should be in the pay version, especially when higher quality almost always requires longer render times and higher performance hardware that new users may not expect to have to invest the time and money into.  Many people, especially gamers, are often shocked to learn that a good render may still take hours or even days to produce, even on the same hardware that runs the latest 3D shoot 'em up at 60+ frames per second.

moogal: I concur. In fact, rendering on the GPU instead of on the CPU would be a HUGE plus. Even with a fairly modest graphics card you could get near realtime render times, say 5-10 frames/sec. The render QUALITY won't be as high as a still render, though.

The whole idea of using a high quality gaming render engine to render out animation is brilliant. No, you don't need 60 FPS realtime rendering, you need the highest quality the game render engine can deliver, and devil may care if frame rate drops to 5 FPS!
Recording an animation with the Crysis engine at highest settings, and then playing back at the correct framerate should result in a stunning animation.

There's one big caveat that I know of. Rendering on the GPU is certainly possible, but how does one capture the output? nVidia has CUDA and Gelato, which only works on the 8xxx and higher series of graphics cards. I don't know whether ATI has a comparable library to program/access the GPU. Anyway, if they have, it is most certainly totally incompatible with nVidia's solution.
While ATI and nVidia dominate the graphics market, there's also Intel for embedded graphics. Yet another totally different GPU, and I'm pretty certain that the Intel embedded graphics chips can't be used for anything else than just plain graphics.
Matrox is another player, and how about the professional high end cards? I remember a card called Wildcat, not from ATI or nVidia or Matrox, that was quite popular at the time.

The advantage of OpenGL is that it's just OpenGL. Write a graphics program against OpenGL and you don't have to worry about the hardware. You can't do that when using CUDA or similar libraries, those are very hardware specific.

Once a general hardware abstraction standard for GPU processing is established (hopefully as an OpenGL extension, that would be the most "acceptable" standard IMO), GPU based calculations, including rendering will flourish. After all, 128 parallel streaming processors in a GPU will be QUITE a lot faster than 4 or 8 cores in a CPU!

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Quote - o.k., thx fr the info, pj.  I tried the poser area light with raytracing unchecked, and there was no illumination (black scene).  however, yer correct: according to one of the developers, GI includes any lighting effects where light is being transferred from one surface to another surface (area light, caustics (indirect specular), radiosity (indirect diffuse), reflections, refractions, et al.).  so it means that an area light is a GI fx, but that GI fx require raytracing calculations.  it's possible that there's no shadow options with the new daz area lights, either.  in versions prior to poser 8, they allowed the users to select shadow options for directional lights, which means they could select wrong, bad or no shadows.

No, you're confusing the normal behavior of Global Illumination with the common use of the term "Area Lights", and they don't have anything to do with each other.  Many other 3D apps offer area lights that are independent of Global Illumination.

edit: Ambient Occlusion has a lot more in common with Global Illumination than area lights do.

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I won't lie .. I'm quite interested in this. But I agree with above. I'd like to see it out alittle longer before I wonder off that way.

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Quote - Certainly some people will buy the GI-capable version, but I'll bet you literally 10 times as many will stick with the free one.

AFAIK you don't need the pay version to get GI. The biggest advantage of the pay version is the ability to MAKE shaders with the new node based shader ability. The free version can still read and render them, but not make them.

Looks like the bulk of the pay version abilities is targeting content makers.

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Quote - Looks like the bulk of the pay version abilities is targeting content makers

Now that would be a good idea indeed - if the included tools are good. Haven't looked, haven't tested, so I have no opinion on D|S 3
But I do hope that Smith Micro will go the same way with Poser. Poser has content creation featuers (Setup room, hierarchy editor, hair room, cloth room) but they need quite a lot of work. And I suspect that only content creators ever touch the Setup room.

II bet the Poser team at SM is highly interested in D|S 3, and I sure hope it'll prod them to come up with a thorougly improved Poser 8!

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Quote - AFAIK you don't need the pay version to get GI. The biggest advantage of the pay version is the ability to MAKE shaders with the new node based shader ability. The free version can still read and render them, but not make them.

As of now the free version does not include GI/IBL.  Also, limiting the shading tools to read-only is really, really limiting.  For those using the free version only, D|S 3 offers almost nothing new, although I expect that DAZ will be selling content with D|S baked shaders a lot more often now.

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It's a moot point anyways. They can't give away D|S adv for free even if they wanted to as that would invite a nice little lawsuit for predatory pricing. It works for D|S base precisely because it is so limited in comparison with poser or other such apps.

  Not really.  You can charge whatever you want, even nothing, for your product, and no one can say a thing.  DS doesn't do the same things as Poser does, never has.  That's like saying the folks who write Blender could be sued for predatory pricing because it does the same thing that Cinema 4D does.  

And, the comparisons between how "good" the outcome is moot.  It's not the program, it's how you use it.  

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Quote -   And, the comparisons between how "good" the outcome is moot.  It's not the program, it's how you use it.  

A good point. A random tour of the galleries shows, to my eyes, that the artist has a greater input into the resulting artwork than the product used in it's creation.

I intend to stick with Poser and Vue as I don't have the time to learn another interface and still haven't scratched the surface of what these programs are capable of.

Quote - Also, limiting the shading tools to read-only is really, really limiting

That needs a little qualification. Although a materials or shader (mc6 and mt5 equivalents, respectively) preset saved from surfaces created in Shader Mixer do not allow the brick layout to be edited in DS 3 base and so the basic function is fixed, the parameters are accessible in the Surfaces palette so there is still scope for adjustment, depending on what options the maker has left exposed and how clearly they are labelled and explained. Shader Builder is a GUI for building regular RSL shaders and their DS support scripts, so those will again work like any other shader with parameters in the Surfaces palette that will allow as much configuration as the author was willing and able to provide.

area lights look amazing. we need this.

Quote - > Quote - Also, limiting the shading tools to read-only is really, really limiting

That needs a little qualification. Although a materials or shader (mc6 and mt5 equivalents, respectively) preset saved from surfaces created in Shader Mixer do not allow the brick layout to be edited in DS 3 base and so the basic function is fixed, the parameters are accessible in the Surfaces palette so there is still scope for adjustment, depending on what options the maker has left exposed and how clearly they are labelled and explained. Shader Builder is a GUI for building regular RSL shaders and their DS support scripts, so those will again work like any other shader with parameters in the Surfaces palette that will allow as much configuration as the author was willing and able to provide.

This leaves the door open for people to write shaders by hand, which is likely to be extremely painful but I assure you they'll do it anyway (people being stingy and all that) and then complain about it.  Have fun with that.  A lot of people would have been wetting their pants with happiness if shader editing was included in the free version.

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Please note, I'm not trying to say "DAZ are poopie heads for not giving everything away for free" - what I was getting at was, a couple of key features (procedural shading and GI) would have left future versions of Poser pretty much moot if they were included in the free version of D|S.  I don't blame DAZ for not wanting to buy out the third parties that wrote those plugins (fairly sure they are not DAZ in-house people) or wanting to make money off of selling their software, I just think they would make a lot more money in the long run if they had done things a little differently.

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"A lot of people would have been wetting their pants with happiness if shader editing was included in the free version"

True. But if these same people are so desperate to have this function, it'll cost them about $47 right now. If they don't want to pay..... well, it's a bit like saying 'Poser should make the SDK free so we could make lots of plug-ins for it'. It's a nice thought, but I doubt it'll ever happen.

DAZ have made DS 3 as affordable as possible, and considering what's included, (especially for developers) the price is phenomenally cheap. They've also wangled a deal where the Trolltech SDK is now completely free. (It used to cost $995) and anyone who's capable can write and sell plug-ins for DS with no financial outlay. So honestly, I really don't see what more they could do to accomodate people's wallets.

"I don't blame DAZ for not wanting to buy out the third parties that wrote those plugins (fairly sure they are not DAZ in-house people) or wanting to make money off of selling their software, I just think they would make a lot more money in the long run if they had done things a little differently"

Actually, as far as I know, other than dynamic cloth (Optitex), everything else in DS 3 is in-house. Shader Mixer started out in life as a 3rd-party app (Eilir), but chris jones rewrote it completely in consultation with DAZ. I'm not sure if he now works for DAZ, but he certainly works very closely with them.

I don't think that any of the DS 3 features will leave Poser lying in the dust. Not because they're not great features, but because the choice is still pretty much what it's always been. People either love/hate the DS/Poser interfaces. That's the one reason I don't see a mass exodus towards DS. It'll be taken more seriously as a competitor to Poser, that's for sure, and I bet a lot of people will try it out, and even make it a part of their toolset. But in the end, users will still have their own preference, and if Poser 8 ups the bar even higher, all the better.

mac

Quote - > Quote - Looks like the bulk of the pay version abilities is targeting content makers

Now that would be a good idea indeed - if the included tools are good. Haven't looked, haven't tested, so I have no opinion on D|S 3
But I do hope that Smith Micro will go the same way with Poser. Poser has content creation featuers (Setup room, hierarchy editor, hair room, cloth room) but they need quite a lot of work. And I suspect that only content creators ever touch the Setup room.

II bet the Poser team at SM is highly interested in D|S 3, and I sure hope it'll prod them to come up with a thorougly improved Poser 8!

Since DS came out with the figure setup tools bundle, I hardly touch poser any more. I don't have a huge need for a lot of CR2 editing and hacking utilities too. I'm really digging it. They really left Poser content making ability in the dust.

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Quote - > Quote - AFAIK you don't need the pay version to get GI. The biggest advantage of the pay version is the ability to MAKE shaders with the new node based shader ability. The free version can still read and render them, but not make them.

As of now the free version does not include GI/IBL.  Also, limiting the shading tools to read-only is really, really limiting.  For those using the free version only, D|S 3 offers almost nothing new, although I expect that DAZ will be selling content with D|S baked shaders a lot more often now.

I thought JenX p[osted screenshots from the free version, and I see uber environment in there. Uber environment is what gives you IBL and GI.

As for free version vs. pay version, are you seriously bellyaching here over $40 bucks for all those features? Seriously, it's not like they're all of a sudden charging $500 for it.

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 Connie's correct, I do only have the free version at this time.  I don't get paid until the beginning of the month ;)

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Do you have the free version, or do you have a trial copy of the pay version?  In the free version of D|S 3 that I downloaded yesterday and installed, I don't have the same content folders as in your screen capture shown earlier.  Also I'm fairly familiar with GI rendering, having worked with it in Cinema, Vue, Max and Maya, and I don't see any render options or lighting options that appear to have anything to do with Global Illumination (or area lighting either, although there is a max shadow samples setting that is promising).

People are not hearing me about pricing despite my explaining it three or so times, so that's fine, it must be me that's the poopie head here.

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I have the free version.  Did you download your free content that is in your account at DAZ, as well?  I haven't installed anything other than those 2 things to my DS3 yet (well, now, I have to reinstall all of my programs thanks to a hard drive crash...luckily all of my content is on external drives ;) )

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I'll go take a look there, I hadn't thought to do that.  I installed the free content packaged with the download.
edit: hmm a 53mb chunk o.O

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Well sure enough, I had to dig around for it - it also seems the layout option I had would not show the specific folders you were getting but when I reset the layout to "Classic" I could find it.  That's quite cool :)  So Global Illumination/Area Lights ARE included in the free version after all, quite surprising (and pleasing).  I'll be damned if I can figure out how to get a render out of them though, I will spend a little time with the tutorial info:
http://www.omnifreaker.com/tiki-index.php?page=UberEnvironment

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Yup :)  I just reinstalled, without any of my other plugins, and found it :)  

I found it in every layout, but I'm probably more used to using DS than you are.  I know it sounds weird and nerdy, but I try to switch the layout to get comfortable using the other layouts, just in case someone asks me a question about them ;)

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I've actually been having a lot of frustration with the content browser, I haven't been able to get it to behave consistently at all.  Yesterday I spent about 20 minutes trying to find a combination that would show me file contents in folders AND the surfaces tab and could not - I could see the surfaces tab, but no files would be visible (folders showed, but no files) or the other way around, but not both.  It had me wanting to throw things towards the end.

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Give me a little bit to reinstall Photoshop, and I'll try to help you with that.  First, I have to figure out what clamshell I put the disc in :P

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

All right I'd appreciate that.  I am considering resetting the content database and manually forcing it to go to just specific directories rather than ever running search again, since I have (for example) all my free items staged separately, well, that kind of made a mess.  I really dislike the content browser database, to be honest, is there any way to turn it off and just browse by what files are actually there rather than all this scan for new files crap?

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Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/tutorial/index.php?tutorial_id=2237&page=14

OK, I FINALLY got it all set up.  *whew*

Here is the setup that I find comfortable.  On the right hand side, there's a little spot where there's 3 dots, and when you click that you can collapse the right-hand side tabs.  Kinda nice :)

When I run the "Search", I run the specific directories.  I've put the link to the tutorial I wrote, starting where you search for content.  You can easily delete directories this way, too.  Let me know what else I can help with :)

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Since I make a lot of content, I really dislike the whole "scan for new content" aspect of the content database.  I guess it can't be turned off huh.

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I'm not sure what you mean.  If you save your content in a pre-linked runtime, it will have that content in it, just like if you install new content, just like Poser.  If you want to search for content, it will auto scan, but if you want to manually add content (The Add button on the left hand side of the Preferences dialog, under the Directories tab), you have to select one item at a time.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I mean, the list of files and directories show in D|S (at least the way it is set up by default) is a copy of what is actually there - if I go to a file browser and move files, or create files outside of D|S, I have to "scan for new content" to get it to appear in D|S.  Is there some way to turn this off and just show a realtime listing of what files and directories are there?

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I also disliked the automatic scan for new content, you can switch it off in the preferences (F2) under the directories tab, you can also add you own runtime directories there, sso you can decide yourself what folders you want in your content map. In fact you can organise your whole content folder here. There is an advanced tab which makes it even easier, but I don't know if that''s also in the free version. Hope this will help

best regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

change your content browser view to either 'view folders as list' or 'view folders as tree'
when the content pane is open(in font of the scene pane) at the top right is a down pointing arrow, click on that to get your choces of how you view the content.

sorry if this sounds condescending, but i do not know how much experience you have with the Studio interface.
either view will show exactly how the folders in the runtime are on the hard-drive.

if the Content Manager is not to your taste you can rearrange the folders how you would like , as long as you stay within the constraints of a Poser type runtime.

only caveat is that DS specific content should be kept in the main content folder, although certain files can be kept in the same folder as poser ones of the same file name, and DS will automatically load its own file when you double click on something to load it into the scene, ie material settings.
hope this helps.

I don't think I'm getting across the basic irritation, which is that the "content database" is not a real time listing of what files are in which directories.  I don't know how to express this more clearly.

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Quote - I don't think I'm getting across the basic irritation, which is that the "content database" is not a real time listing of what files are in which directories.  I don't know how to express this more clearly.

Then you would essentially HAVE to scan for content in order for the stuff to show up if this is the case.

Example: You just finish a bathing suit for Stephanie and you put it in it's own directory. You mean that DazStudio won't see it unless you rescan for content???? I mean, in Poser it just shows up. That's what you want from DazStudio, correct?

Just trying to clarify ;o).

Laurie

Yes, that's what I don't like.

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AH, I get it.  Have you tried just going into another directory and then going back into the former directory?  I haven't tried this in DS3, but it worked for me in DS2.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

no, the Content Manager database has to be built by the user. that is why, if you are in either of the category views, that all new content shows up in the 'unassigned' category after a scan for content..
it has been designed for users to set up their content any way that they like to work with.
you can create categories and name them anything you like. it is not a strict heirarchy like the Poser runtime. also it does not physically move any files on the hard-drive.as i said in my previous post you can view the content in more of a Poser layout in the 'view folder as'  content views.

any database has to have its data put into the correct categories, usually by an operator.
i do not personally know any other way of inputting data into a data base.
spreadsheets may be able to auto sort chunks of data, i do not know, i have never used a spreadsheet.
even with the standard Poser runtimes, you have to make sure,yourself, that  the installed files go into the correct folder, and you set up the runtimes to suit your workflow.
in the database you can have all files that relate to an item, whether it be a prop, texture set , or clothing set  for instance i have Dementia by ValDart and all the texture sets plus props, and the character set. all in the same category, so everything is in one place. with Poser, as i understand it, you would have to have a dedicated runtime to do the same, where you would have to manually drag and drop all the various files into there respective folder inside the runtime or make sure the paths are right when you point your installer or unzip a clothingprop set etc.

Quote - Yes, that's what I don't like.

Pffft....I don't like that either ;o).

I create content as well and I have an empty runtime linked into Poser for just that purpose. That way, I know where the stuff is and it's easy to grab the stuff in that runtime and pack it up for upload.

Laurie

I've been using poser and d|s for a long time, first i have p4(pp) and D|S(1.2 or so) and at first studio impresed me in that it haves a faster and accurate render than poser.
Okay from my point of view that's a goood point for D|S, but when I came across with the shader system in p6 it shoked me, i havent see something similar(powerful yet easy to use) since Flamingo(Rhino photorrealistic render engine) but now D|S came with the same thing ..... I don't know why all that noise about, P8 will be released soon and, what it will be?
To me, poser have some good reasons to still be on my hd, i.e. it's easy to make the pose you want, the shader system is powerful yet stable, of course we all want a mighty program that let you render over a network, make caustics, volumes, hdribl, gi/radiosity, full raytracing and more!
but, that program, as far as I know, does not exist (yet) so if Daz makes a bettes Studio, and give soime of that for free, hey I'm happy with that, and if charges for the plugins, we're taking great programs for our money, and the D|S base release always have behaved great to me

...wow that sounds like some at daz wrote it...

and last but not least I can only make daz run into my Slackware!!!!
:thumbupboth:

I guess this will boil down to who likes which best. ;o).

Most will go with what they're used to and comfortable with. Maybe a little back and forth between the two, but one will get used much more than the other.

Me, Poser for now. I'm used to it, for better or worse. It's comfortable now because I'm used to it. I'd like to learn D|S, but it's gonna be awhile til I can do much. Then who knows? Each has it's pluses and minuses.

Laurie

I think longtime D|S users must become so accustomed to the content database that they stop noticing it.  I can't explain otherwise why I'm failing so badly to make myself understood (at least LaurieA gets what I'm saying).  I get the impression that there is no way to bypass the content DB, which sucks pretty badly but whatever (don't crucify me for not liking this feature please).

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Quote - ... I get the impression that there is no way to bypass the content DB, which sucks pretty badly but whatever (don't crucify me for not liking this feature please).

I for one would never do that ;o). Like I said, I don't like it much either, but Daz must have had their reason's for setting it up the way they did. Maybe they just never thought to make sure the content directories update when something new is there. But for that, there would have to be something running in the background all the time and that wouldn't be good. That, I REALLY don't like...LOL.

For the content directories in Daz to work like Poser, there will just HAVE to be two different content directories; one for D|S and one for Poser. No getting around it apparently.

Laurie

There are programming methods that can handle changes to filesystems without making a lot of overhead .  But oh well.

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Quote - There are programming methods that can handle changes to filesystems without making a lot of overhead .  But oh well.

They have it set up so that D|S will scan for new content on opening? If so, does it still go thru EVERYTHING (ugh)? Or does it know the difference between the previous scan and what's different in the new? That would be a mess if it had to chug thru all of it over and over. I for one have GIGS and GIGS of content on my machine. Oooo.

Laurie

You don't have to scan for new content on opening. If you want a new directory, go to Edit/Preferences/Directories and click on *Add  *then navigate to your new directory, click ok then Apply and Accept. Close DAZ Studio, reopen it and your new directory will be listed.

If you want to add a new folder, create your folder, open DAZ Studio and it will be there.

Unless I'm completely missing what you're talking about.......

Coldrake

Hi coldrake!

I guess what he/she/we mean is that for the directory to be seen takes an extra step. When you drop a runtime folder over your Poser runtime folder all the directories are there when Poser opens without any further action from the user. Really I guess it's no more a pain in the rear than linking external runtimes, the only difference being when you create or put a new folder/folders in a linked external runtime, it's in Poser then and there. I guess you have to rescan for D|S unless it's a folder/directory created in D|S - IF it's a previously scanned Poser directory that's been updated with new folders and content.

Laurie

No, you can set it to scan manually (in which case it scans all your pre-selected content directories), but I'd just as soon have the option to not use the content DB at all and manually drill around between folders.  The scan doesn't take all that long after the first time you do it but - never mind, it's the way it is so it doesn't matter.

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Quote - I guess what he/she/we mean is that for the directory to be seen takes an extra step.

YES EXACTLY.

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Ah, ya wanna go content huntin' ;o). I didn't realize you want to look everytime you want to add something without having the content directories loaded in D|S. Now I got it! LOL.

Laurie

Quote -
I guess what he/she/we mean is that for the directory to be seen takes an extra step.

I guess I should be referring to content rather than directory. Chances are THEY are already there, you just can't see anything you've added to it unless you scan again. For me, I'd HAVE to scan again everytime I open. I'm always adding things. ;o)

Laurie

Quote - I didn't realize you want to look everytime you want to add something without having the content directories loaded in D|S.

Well no, I don't want to "look" (i.e., run the "scan for new content" feature) every time but - well - I give up.  I am going to go spend some time reading English grammar textbooks because evidently I just completely fail at my native language.

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Quote - > Quote - I didn't realize you want to look everytime you want to add something without having the content directories loaded in D|S.

Well no, I don't want to "look" (i.e., run the "scan for new content" feature) every time but - well - I give up.  I am going to go spend some time reading English grammar textbooks because evidently I just completely fail at my native language.

I got what you meant the first time. You want the content to act JUST LIKE POSER'S. There when you open, no matter what you've added recently.

Laurie

Thanks, I was having a real Twilight Zone moment there.

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Easy to do when you are talking to an imp with a flower earring.

Comitted to excellence through art.

Quote - Easy to do when you are talking to an imp with a flower earring.

HEY! I resemble that ;o). LOL.

I DO have a tendency  to not get my point across a lot...hehe.

Laurie

Hi Laurie!

Quote -
I guess I should be referring to content rather than directory. Chances are THEY are already there, you just can't see anything you've added to it unless you scan again.

I can see everything just by adding or changing folders.

Quote - You want the content to act JUST LIKE POSER'S. There when you open, no matter what you've added recently.

If you add new content, add/move folders in a directory it will.

Quote - when you create or put a new folder/folders in a linked external runtime, it's in Poser then and there.

Same as DAZ Studio. ;)

Quote - I guess you have to rescan for D|S unless it's a folder/directory created in D|S - IF it's a previously scanned Poser directory that's been updated with new folders and content.

I never scan anything, I've just added directories through the Edit/Preferences/Directories and everything is fine.

I added 2 new directories, one located in my 3D folder, and one on my desktop, then added new folders and copy and pasted some content. I opened DAZ Studio and everything is there, (see image) no scanning involved.

If I'm still missing the boat, I'll just paddle ashore. :)

Coldrake

> Quote - Is there some way to turn this off and just show a realtime listing of what files and directories are there?

Don't use the Content Database (categories view.)  Use a folder view and you will be viewing your content folders as they are in your hard drive. 

(As 3anson replied Posted Tue, Jun 23, 2009 4:42 pm...)

Quote - change your content browser view to either 'view folders as list' or 'view folders as tree'
when the content pane is open(in font of the scene pane) at the top right is a down pointing arrow, click on that to get your choces of how you view the content.

View Folders should have been default.  View Categories is very annoying to people with established poser content folder structure. 

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a sweet disorder in the dress kindles in clothes a wantoness,
do more bewitch me than when art is too precise in every part

I'm hoping that users will post d|s3 adv. renders in gallery here.  so far, based on looking over the thumbs for a minute or two, I'm not seeing anything yet.  I'm guessing that the ds3 renders will look carrara-like, whilst the old ds2 renders look like poser.

Okay, I understand what I was screwing up now.  This is the default directory add screen, and adding a Poser runtime here with this option set will show you directories, but since they don't contain any *.DS* files, they appear to be empty.

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This is where I should have had it before I added the Poser runtime, and how I have it set now, and it works the way I want it to (copy a file from file browser window and it immediately appears in the file list).  I think the combination of this and the Categories views (which I don't think I'll ever use) was confusing me immensely.

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That is true.  Use the pull down menu (The arrow), and you'll get the chance to add Poser content, with the Poser content showing up :)

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Hey, I got a great idea...how about a daz studio forum!?!

Maybe we could even allow commercial post,  like this thread,  there.

"View Folders should have been default.  View Categories is very annoying to people with established poser content folder structure"

Never a truer word spoken. I use View Folders As Tree and avoid the whole content Db thing. I find that it's nothing but a pain, although I don't doubt some people like it.

pjz,

I can see you're making a determined attempt to master DS, so if I may, I'd like to offer some advice. As you've already figured out, the Preferences dialog allows you to add Runtimes by content type and the Tree view lets you see them as they are on your HDD. If you're happy with that, I'ld stick with it and forget the content Db altogether. So, on the topic of library structure, here are some of the things you can do in DS which I like.

1. Right-click any folder name> Create new sub-folder / Rename / Delete / Browse to folder location.
2. Right-click any thumbnail to Load / Cut / Copy / Delete / Rename / Browse / Create custom action
3. Left-click to select any thumbnail (CTRL-click to multi-select) and drag to a new folder.
4. Use the 2 top-right arrows in the content pane to go back/forward between the folders you've browsed.

Create Custom Action

This is a great function. Let's say you create a custom action for a figure. A new menu category will appear called 'Scripts' and your custom action will be listed in it. When you click it, that figure will load in DS. You can create a custom action for anything - figures. props, MATs, poses, lights and cameras.

If you want to go even further, open the Customise dialog (Edit> Customise or press F3) and in the left-hand pane, expand the 'Custom' list. You'll see your action there. If you open the Toolbars tab in the right-hand pane, you can drag the custom action to a toolbar. You can also create new toolbars (right-click> Add Toolbar), and switch them off/on.

So for example, you can make your own toolbar (and icons of you want) and add figures or presets to it. Rather than looking through folders for frequently used figures, one click on the toolbar icon will load them.

Another thing you can do in Customise is to expand the lists in the left-hand pane and right-click an item to change the keyboard shortcut. I've assigned my own hotkeys to the entire UI and it's agreat way to speed up your workflow.

You should also take a good look through Preferences (press F2) and change a few things. It's set by default to view small icons, which I find useless, and there are a few other things you might not want, like creating a new camera for every scene.

The last thing you might want to change is the UI itself. There are 2 ways to do this - Styles and Layouts. In the menu View> Interface Style, you can choose a style and in the same menu is an option to customise some of the colors. Interface Layouts gives you a variety of options and you can save any style or layout. It will be added to the list and you can switch between them with one click.

Basically, what I'm saying here is that DS isn't exactly like Poser, but once you start to get the hang of it, you'll find that there are lots of things you can do with the UI and library which can't be done in Poser. One isn't better than the other - they're just different, that's all.

mac

Btw, I just found a link to a tutorial which might be helpful. (I haven't actually read it, but someone recommended it).

http://www.sharecg.com/v/29425/pdf/word-doc-tutorial/Reorganizing-Your-Content-in-DAZ-Studio

mac

Quote - This is where I should have had it before I added the Poser runtime, and how I have it set now, and it works the way I want it to (copy a file from file browser window and it immediately appears in the file list).  I think the combination of this and the Categories views (which I don't think I'll ever use) was confusing me immensely.

Cool! Glad you figured it out (and that it works like Poser)...hehe.

Laurie

Quote - Hey, I got a great idea...how about a daz studio forum!?!

Maybe we could even allow commercial post,  like this thread,  there.

Well, you could move it to the DazStudio forum, but it has just as much right to be here as there. If it didn't, I think JenX or someone else would have moved it by now. We are mostly Poser people talking about the difference between Poser and D|S3 and the benefits of one to the other. Right?

But I appreciate your cynicism patorak :o).

Laurie

We're also mostly talking about the free version, so I don't know how "commercial" comes into play.

Heads up in case people missed it:  Area Lights and Global Illumination ARE included in the free version of D|S 3.

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Quote - We're also mostly talking about the free version, so I don't know how "commercial" comes into play.

Heads up in case people missed it:  Area Lights and Global Illumination ARE included in the free version of D|S 3.

Really? I guess I'll have to take the time to learn it then...sigh.

talks to herself  I've got no time, no time.

;o)

Laurie

We are mostly Poser people talking about the difference between Poser and D|S3 and the benefits of one to the other. Right?

with tutorials on how to use DS3. dry tone

personally I think the threads moved into where it should moved now.

what's the prob? if you don't want to learn anything about DS, don't read the thread!!!

The thread is fine here.  If it needed to be moved, I'd have done it by now.  Complaining isn't going to change it.

Besides, if I had to move every non-poser thread, all of the python, modelling, texturing, etc. threads wouldn't be here, either.  You can't actually program in Poser, model in poser (without using the primitives, yes, Geep, I know, LOL), or texture inside Poser.  

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Quote - ...Besides, if I had to move every non-poser thread, all of the python, modelling, texturing, etc. threads wouldn't be here, either.  You can't actually program in Poser, model in poser (without using the primitives, yes, Geep, I know, LOL), or texture inside Poser.  

That and the fact that a lot of Poser content creators either already create the same content for D|S or would like to :o) (like myself).

Laurie

You can texture inside of Poser, procedurally inside the material room :)
I guess you mean painted bitmaps :)

Python queries would still be allowed in this forum according to the forum header, because that would fall under (quoted from the header) 'our goal is to create an excellent learning environment for those of us wanting to learn new aspects to make our Poser-including artwork better' part and Python scripts are an aspect of Poser, and therefore so is the learning of them. The forum header doesn't say anything about doing everything inside of Poser (although PhilC's PoserPocketKnife lets you open up a Python pz3edit program so you could write a script inside of Poser!)  :)

Just joshin' with ya JenX! :)

I'm going to have to start sticking my fingers in my ears and blowing raspberries. 

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I'm only kidding  :)

I know.  I'm kind of kidding.

Maybe.

:P

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Going back to Studio 3, I just read this on the CNET download page for Studio 3:

'This free version of DAZ Studio also doubles as the 30-day trial. Features for DAZ Studio 3 Advanced are enabled in the free version for 30 days, at which time they will be disabled unless the Advanced version is purchased. The Core version of DAZ Studio 3 will remain free.'

So after 30 days, unless you purchase Advanced, you won't have the GI and area lights anymore. So I guess it's a case of enjoy them, but maybe don't get used to them?

I may download it to try it out, but I'm so used to the Poser interface, I just couldn't make head nor tail of the older versions. I imagine it'll be the same with 3 as well! :)

That's good to know.  I'm torn between directly installing it when I buy it and waiting to see what expires just to know.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - ... I'm so used to the Poser interface, I just couldn't make head nor tail of the older versions. I imagine it'll be the same with 3 as well! :)

You and I both.

Laurie

Quote - So after 30 days, unless you purchase Advanced, you won't have the GI and area lights anymore. So I guess it's a case of enjoy them, but maybe don't get used to them?

I didn't notice that.  Since the way GI and area lights are given to you is by content and not plugins I wonder how they're actually going to do that.  I haven't really spent much time fiddling with it due to working on some freebie modeling projects (pretty popular ones as it turns out).

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I don't know how they'll do it either, but looking at the features on the product page at DAZ between Core (free) and Advanced (pay for) it definately looks like the advanced lighting features are pay for.
The Studio features page ( http://www.daz3d.com/i/software/daz_studio3/features?_m=d ) seems to back it up too.

Your swimsuits and such do look good.

I'm not looking at all the d|s images in galllery here (just the thumbnails), but haven't seen any yet that seem to be using advanced lighting. I'm concerned that the 30-day expiry may prevent new users from adequately learning said functions.  I hope it's just as easy as carrara - open d|s, click a GI preset, load props/figures, then render.

Miss Nancy, if you check out my favorites, you'll see some.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

K... I'm kinda comfortable with material room and nodes in Poser. Kinda. Painfully slowly learning what goes with what, how to create a given effect and what the channels do.

Kinda.

Have any of you looked at the Shader Builder in D|S??????

Here I was planning to just sorta recreate my Poser skin shader in D|S 3. Ummmmmmm, yeah. Right. Not evcen an option. Everything's back-to-front. Channels plug in from the left, not the right. I take it that "User Parameters" is to D|S what "PoserSurface" is to Poser?

Anyone?

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

User Parameters are what will appear on the Surfaces palette when the a surface using the shader is selected. Shader Builder isn't an equivalent to the Poser Material Room, it's for coding (allowing the use of pre-made snippets and the creation of new snippets0. Shader Mixer would be a more likely match with theMaterial Room, though the overlap isn't exact by any means.