ok, i'm not even making my populated scene yet. i have an empty scene and i add 1 DAZ character with clothes, 1 james with clothes, and one Daz MATT with clothes and no shoes.

As soon as i add 1 shoe for matt( kid), i start getting  message that says
Memory problem.

So imagine a poser environment with a 5 DAZ characters. mmmmm..
is my comcputer just too old, not powerful enough or what?

Macos X 10.4.11, 1.8GZh G5. 2GB RAM

i thought i  just needed to restart, and i did but problem continues so that means it's really the fact that more than 3 characters is impossible for my computer 

Which version of Poser? I find that I have less memory problems with version 6 than I do with 7. 7 is a real bugger.

 Poser 6 of course!!

Hmmm... that is odd. I usually have very few problems with Poser 6. I can fill up a scene with no problems. However, I don't frequently try multiple human figures, but I've had 2 human figures and maybe some type of animal or creature in there.

I'm running a PC:

2140 @1.60ghz dual core proc
3 gig of ram.
My video is on the board (ugh...really bad)

Laurie

I'll try it out (I have those figures).

I'll let you know.

Of course, if there's anything else in the scene besides the figures that will add too.

Laurie

I dont know Mac but I could render 5 figures V3, M3, David and hiro  and apollo on a pc with only 512 mb memory but with plenty of disk for swap file.  I would count clothes/hair  as a figure.

 

 Oh, then if clothes count.

I had  
-James,:Hair for james( with texture), sunglasses for james, , shirt and pants, shoes

-V3: Skirt, blouse, neckless, highheels, Hair( with texture). ,

-Matt, with pants and shirt and shoes, and hair 

So that's about 16 characters... 

PLUS MATT And all the characters use high quality textures for the skin and Eyes
But i'm not even complaining about rendering yet!! I'm just saying that I run out of memory just for loading these characters into the scene.

Wel well, i guess i have to change what i want to do. I originally wanted to form groups of crowds of 2 or 3 characters. but since i can't do 3, i'll do 2. 2 is possible!

I was going to do a family of 3 or 4. but i guess i can't

remember : everything counts. if it's in the scene, it's going to be using resources.

 Well this is the message i'm getting. I don't know why though. Now i'm getting this message even if i open a PZ3 file with 2 characters( clothed)

 Oh wait a second. That error message ....I'm getting it only when i open some PZ3 files with 2 characters, but not with other Pz3 files of 2 characters.

So could it mean, poser is having trouble with some specific characters. or some hair prop maybe.....

 Ok, what could be the problem.. Loading this file causes the Error. The file still loads and the characters in the file seem to be complete as i had prepared them, but why the error

Also the PMD files are where the PZ3 files are.. so i don't get it.. 

 And this one DOES NOT GIVE ME the error. and yet it is basically the same as that other one.

Again. this one NO ERROR.

 Ok update. On that PZ3 that was giving me the error. I removed the V3 and her hair. And saved a copy of this file. And guess what?? whne i opened this v3-less file, NO ERROR!!!

I wonder if v3 is the cause of the problem or maybe the hair. 
I'll test and report back results

 Ok i'm back, in case anyone is seeing this thread. I did a test where i left V3 in, but deleted her hair. ANd guess what? I did get an ERROR when trying to open that file.

Which means, the hair is not the problem. It's v3. But i doubt it v3 is giving the problem... it must be the Body texture that i used for that v3. I'll test.

YES!! Cause all the Pz3 files with 2 characters where i have V3 use this texture give me that error when i open the file. While the Pz3 2 character file with v3 using a different texture, doesn't give me an error.

DOES POSER 6 just go crazy after a while of use? I had nt had any problem with v3 before, and i have not moved the textures around in my computer

But why would it be giving me errors when i have used and loaded that v3 with that texture many times before...

 Ok , tested the  Texture, .. instead of using that texture. i applied the DAZ v3 texture and resaved file. When i opened, i still got the error.

ok, my final say will be is that Sometimes when you save files, Poser 6 creates bad data in some Pz3 files. Then even if you open that file and try to get rid of the error by SAVING AS and giving it a new name.. you'll still get the error cause the bad data that was written before, remains there.

So, my fix will be to create a new Pz3 with 2 characters from scratch. I will not try to open that first file i made and SAVE AS with a new name. I will not do that.

try turning off PMD support.

What kind of hair does V3 have? Maybe you are using freebies that were built from the hair room, not a conforming hair or a hair smart prop.

If you are using the one from the hair room then it might be the one triggering your memory problem because hair strands is composed of lots of polys.

Better solution: BUY A NEW COMPUTER.

Passion is anger and love combined. So if it looks angry, give it some love!

Quote - ...BUY A NEW COMPUTER.

LOL...we realize not everyone has the funds to buy a whole new rig ;o). If that were the case I'd have one too.

Laurie

or he can turn off PMD's which corrupt and cause the message above.

it's been posted over and over 'Turn off PMD's' 

 well guys I fixed the problem. All was just like i had thought. Some poser file corruption. So i started a new file from scratch and loaded my characters, then saved. And
now those files open fine.

But aside from that litle problem i had, it's really tedious trying to work with 3 or more characters at a time. My system gets so slow

....the corruption WAS THE PMD FILE.

bangs head on desk repeatedly

Here, let me help.

Poser PMD files do not work. Turn off external binary morph targets.

PMD files have been discussed a BILLION times. They don't work.

Don't use PMD files.

Your error message said "or PMD files are invalid."

That's because all PMD files are invalid.

PMD does not work.

Oh, did I mention PMD files can be a problem?

Hehehehe.

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Quote -  Ok , tested the  Texture, .. instead of using that texture. i applied the DAZ v3 texture and resaved file. When i opened, i still got the error.

That is probably because you applied more than a texture. You probably applied a character, which included morphs. When you saved it, you saved it with PMD morph information. Changing the texture after that makes no difference. You already broke it.

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thanks Bill.. have a beer!

LOL. So, PMD files don't work? ;o).

j/k

Well, that's prolly the main source of your problem tebop. I hope you get your problems all fixed up (without having to buy a new computer).

Laurie

 So what's PMD anyways. ? heheheh, i don't even know. But i do see that Poser creates PMD files when i save PZ 3 files

> Quote - Poser creates PMD files when i save PZ 3 files

That's why BB is telling you to TURN IT OFF! It's in Preferences.

Don't use it. It's rubbish. It screws things up.

---

Windows 10 x64 Pro - Intel Xeon E5450 @ 3.00GHz (x2)

PoserPro 11 - Units: Metres

Adobe CC 2017

 So if it's rubbish, why did Poser creators include it in Poser 7 also!!?

I dont have poser 7 but i noticed in your image it says poser 7

it's in poser 6 and 7 and Pro. check your preferences and you'll find it....!!!!!!

 Ok i turned off the Use External binary.... thing

And I don't know but it feels saving my pz3 file is much slower. In mac, poser 6, it takes like 3 minutes to save a 2 DAZ character file after i turned it off. I remember it used to be faster

I'm not having that problem I'm having a depth perception issue.

Don't go buy a whole new comp...listen to Bill for he is a poser guru.

It's included because it sometimes works, but rather than try to explain when you can and cannot use it, we just say turn it off. If you forget to follow the details of when you must stop using it, you'll lose a day of work - better to just deal with slower saves.

V4 in partciular has something different about her that makes her not compatible with PMD files.

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Quote - It's included because it sometimes works, but rather than try to explain when you can and cannot use it, we just say turn it off. If you forget to follow the details of when you must stop using it, you'll lose a day of work - better to just deal with slower saves.

V4 in partciular has something different about her that makes her not compatible with PMD files.

Not having a problem using PMD files, it just takes my computer forever to locate the file...hmmmm
I wonder if that's why it takes so long, it doesn't really work?

Put up with the slowness on saving and you won't have to put up with a corrupted .pmd later ;o)

Laurie

:D

I want your lil avatar girl Laurie...

I have a cute idea for her. I need to stop watching the Science channel.

If you have Kali or Kena, you'll have the skin tex fairly shortly...LOL. It'll be a freebie.

As for Kena and the Science Channel - should I ask??

Then again, maybe not for this particular thread...LOL.

Laurie

2GB of RAM is part of your problem too I reckon. For multi-figure renders you really need more. I used to be limited to 2 Vicky 4s in a scene. Upgrading my RAM to 4GB and using the /3GB switch allows me to do a lot more. Since the upgrade I've already managed one scene with 5 fully clothed Vicky 4s and I reckon I might manage to squeeze a bit more in.
Thats in Poser 7 running on WinXP SP2.
If a complete PC upgrade is out of the question a RAM upgrade would be a good investment if you want to do multi-figure scenes.

Expert in computer code including, but not limited to, BTW; IIRC; IMHO; LMAO; BRB; OIC; ROFL; TTYL. Black belt in Google-fu.

 

Why do you reckon that? Am I missing something? The error said it could be memory, or it could be invalid PMD files.

The OP got the error even with only two figures loaded, until he stopped using PMD files.

Which part of that information says he should continue to investigate memory as an issue?

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 Bagginsbill.. I also wrote that even aside from the fact that i was able to get rid of the error after the PDM thing, my poser gets really sluggish, in a scene with 3 fully clothed characters. 

That's why he mentioned memory

Right, but sluggishness during posing is not memory - it's CPU.

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 If it's CPU.. then, are you saying Mac G5, 1.8GZh users, should not expect to do any complicated posing anymore?  I guess that's true, i gotta move up to a new Intel mac. 

in 2 years i'll be able to get a new comp

Posing with OpenGL preview will also be affected by a graphics card, since in that case it is the GPU doing the drawing in real time

I'm not very familiar with Mac hardware, but if I understand correctly, the G5 CPU came in many flavors. According to Wikipedia, in May 2005, the 1.8 Ghz was no longer sold, which would place your box at 4+ years old.You didn't say which variant you have. If you have the single-core SP unit, with the slower 600 Mhz front side bus, then you have a very slow machine indeed by today's standards.

However, if you're posing with OpenGL, then the GPU is the bigger issue. Wikipedia doesn't mention what sort of graphics processors came with those units, but given the time frame, I'd say they are not able to handle posing with half a million or so polygons in anything like real time, no matter how much RAM you add.

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Is your computer an iMac? Just curious. Doing research on the G5, I read that some of the iMac units can't display all colors because they had a 6-bit display, not 8-bit like the rest of the universe. Apple got sued over that, because they claimed it could display millions of colors, when in fact it is only 262 thousand colors. I suspect the real-time graphics chip in it was very limited in power, as well.

You could buy a faster PC, used, for $150.

 

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 My Mac is the G5 mac 1.8Ghz. Its a Tower and yes it's old. 

if memory serves, said machine (default version) came with NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600 or later, with 128 MB VRAM.  however, OP can check this using "about this mac" command.

Miss nancy you mean my Graphics info?

It's this:

GeForce FX 5200

VRAM( Total) :  64MB 

Quote -  Bagginsbill.. I also wrote that even aside from the fact that i was able to get rid of the error after the PDM thing, my poser gets really sluggish, in a scene with 3 fully clothed characters. 

That's why he mentioned memory

Indeedy. The thread title asks for best computer specs to make populated scenes. Can't do better than ram more RAM at them.

Expert in computer code including, but not limited to, BTW; IIRC; IMHO; LMAO; BRB; OIC; ROFL; TTYL. Black belt in Google-fu.

 

 You may want to try if a different preview style results in faster performance. The FX5200 isn't the fastest card to begin with, and since OS X uses OpenGL heavily for it's UI, your scene's textures have to fight over the 64MB VRAM with the rest of the system.

Try if switching to Smooth Shaded instead of Texture Shaded mode improves things for you.

Quote - > Quote -  Bagginsbill.. I also wrote that even aside from the fact that i was able to get rid of the error after the PDM thing, my poser gets really sluggish, in a scene with 3 fully clothed characters. 

That's why he mentioned memory

Indeedy. The thread title asks for best computer specs to make populated scenes. Can't do better than ram more RAM at them.

Except he has 2 Gigs of RAM already, which is enough for 10 figures, as that is all I have and I don't have the problems tebop is experiencing.

Are you at all following the conversation? We're dealing here with a slow CPU, a slow front side bus, a very slow GPU, and only 64K of VRAM. He can put 64 Gigs of RAM in his computer and it won't make a bit of difference. Are you going to pay for the RAM upgrade that isn't going to do anything here? For the price of 2Gigs of RAM, tebop can have a whole new computer that blows this one away.

Please, pay attention to the things being said instead of just repeating yourself.

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Agree with BB, my rig is a celeron dual@2.0Ghz with only 2 gigs in ram, and I'm able to put, say 5 to 9 figures(this is counting clothes) an have the same speed... well that was made just to test, I usually work with 2 or 3, max 5 figures...
that rig isn't VEEEEERY expensive.
so if you're lookin foward to get a new rig...  first you might try to see how much money you can spend, and stick to it. nowadays computers are gettin cheaper every day.

Quote -  If it's CPU.. then, are you saying Mac G5, 1.8GZh users, should not expect to do any complicated posing anymore?  I guess that's true, **i gotta move up to a new Intel mac. 
**
in 2 years i'll be able to get a new comp

Given you're a guy on a budget, your devotion to Apple seems irrational to me.

Let's pick a target price of $800. What can you get for that, say at Best Buy?

From Apple, the only option is the iMac Mini for $799.99.

From PC vendors, there are tons of choices, but let's look at the ASUS Essentio for $779.99 (you save $20).

**CPU: iMac = Intel Core 2 Duo 2 Ghz, ASUS = Intel Core 2 Quad 2.5 Ghz
L2 Cache: iMac = 3 MB, ASUS = 4 MB
Bus speed: iMac = 1066 MHz, ASUS = 1333 MHz
**
These are your #1 factors in rendering speed, and the ASUS beats the snot out of the iMac. With 4 newer generation cores instead of 2 older ones, and 25% faster on top of that, more cache, and a higher bus speed, you'd easily see a render go 2X faster, and I bet it would actually go 3 to 5 times faster in some situations. That's 5 minute render versus a 25 minute render. I watch a 5 minute render and stop it if I don't like what I see. A 25 minute render, I go away and come back to find I screwed up, and have to wait another half hour to see if I got it right. With renders going 2 to 5X faster, you learn a lot more every day and are a lot less frustrated.

RAM: iMac = 2 GB DDR3, ASUS = 8 GB DDR3

Are you kidding me? 8 GB versus 2 GB is insane! Think about this: Load your base OS and support applications, along with Poser with an empty scene, and you've already used 1 GB of RAM. That leaves 1 GB for scene content (polygons) and rendering on the iMac, versus 7 GB on the ASUS. That's right, you get to play with 7 times as many polygons on the ASUS before it croaks and starts swapping. That's the difference between 10 figures and 70 figures. You want a crowd? Forget that on the Apple - it ain't gonna happen.

Disk: iMac = 320 GB SATA at 5400 rpm, ASUS = 750 GB SATA at 7200 rpm

You need space for content on your disk. Your base used no matter what is 100 GB. For your content, that leaves you with 220 GB versus 650 GB. That's 3 times as much available disk space. Plus, the 5400 rpm drive on the Apple is a slow piece of crap compared to the 7200 rpm disk on the ASUS. So stuff will load 2 to 5 times faster on the ASUS. Do you want to wait 30 seconds or 6 seconds to load a modern high-poly figure with a crapload of morphs?

**GPU: iMac = NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, ASUS  = NVIDIA GeForce GT220
VRAM: iMac = 256 MB DDR3 SDRAM, ASUS = 1024 MB GDDR3
**
This is another blowout victory for the ASUS. The GT220 is bottom of the barrel in PC land, but it still kicks the 9400M in the peanuts. With a faster clock speed, twice as many shader processors, and faster memory that is FOUR TIMES BIGGER, there just is no comparison. You want to pose lots of stuff, or see them in preview with high quality texture rendering or real-time shader preview? Then there simply is no comparison. Not even close.

There are other things we could compare and see the ASUS win, but they're not helpful to 3D. Things like more USB ports, media card readers, etc. The only feature I can find on the iMac equals or exceeds the ASUS is built-in Bluetooth support.

So in summary, the ASUS is 2 to 5 times faster at rendering, holds 7 times more content in a scene, holds 3 times the content on disk, loads that content 2 to 5 times faster, and let's you interact with that content 5 times more smoothly.

These are not little factors, like 25 to 30%, they are 300%, 500%, 700% factors.

If you love your Mac software, then keep the one you have now plugged in, but run your 3D stuff on a PC. Or, be insane. Whichever you prefer.

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I wouldnt dream of buying an oem computer these days.
Newegg.com is your best friend.

A budget build I did recently that handles poser pro with no problems.

apevia x-plorer case and 420w power supply $79
intel celeron e1400 dual core @ 2.0 ghz 800 fsb $49
foxconn g31mxp-k motherboard $44
2 gig dual channel kingston hyper x memory @ 5 5 5 15 800 mhz $32
galaxy geforce 8400 gs 256mb turbo cache to 512mb $35
liteon cd/dvd $30
western digital 80 gig sata hd $35
total is $304

this motherboard does allow some overclocking features.
it will bring the e1400 from 2000mhz to 2650mhz stable.
the memory I have overclocked as well with 5 5 5 18 timings @ 1066

for the adventerous you can do a pin mod on the cpu as I've done.
same setup as above with the cpu running at 3400mhz and a fsb of 1360

The greatest thing about going this route is that it is upgradeable without the headache of
sticking with what will work for hp, dell, gateway, etc.

Handle every stressful situation like a dog.

If you can't eat it or play with it,

just pee on it and walk away. :-)

....................................................

I wouldnt have to manage my anger

if people would manage their stupidity......

 

P7 works better for me than P6 did but I have only used it on a new machine so it isn't a fair comparison. One thing I used to do is export out a figure, after it was posed, and bring it back as a static obj, I could add a few more figures in there most times.

And the thing is that a lot of Mac users would never think of using a PC. So I know that might not be an option.

Quote - ...And the thing is that a lot of Mac users would never think of using a PC. So I know that might not be an option.

I was thinking that too. Some Mac users are hard core Mac fans ;o).

Laurie

You guys say that like it hadn't occurred to me.

That was my point. Didn't you see the first sentence?

" ... your devotion to Apple seems irrational ..."

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A preference for Macs doesn't have to be irrational. It may just be a different rationale from yours ;)

If you want the fastest CPU for your money, right now a home-built PC wins hands down. (Back when the G5 came out, it wasn't that easy - the G5 was definitely a great machine in its time, even though optimizing code for it was a challenge.)

However, people may pick a Mac for other reasons - maybe they like the operating system better, the attention hardware details (I'm sure the magnetic power plug has saved my laptop's life more than once) or just the looks. Practically everyone who buys a Mac knows that Windows PCs are cheaper, yet still they pick a Mac. They have their reasons.

We don't just look at horse powers per $ when we buy cars either.

So, cut the Mac users some slack - or would you like it when they start writing "get a Mac" in every thread about a Windows specific problem?

erm Stewer...they do already.

I know. And I believe that supports my point. "Buy a completely different one" is rarely the correct answer when someone asks for help with their computer.

But we're talking about tebop here, not a bunch of other threads.

I understand all about individual decision making. I own a $100,000 car - I'm sure there are plenty on this thread who think that is stupid.

Tebop has indicated he has very little money to spend, and wants to do animation with dozens of figures.

He needs horsepower, period. And he's on a very limited budget. There is no room in that for "I like the Mac interface" - sorry there just isn't.

What is your suggestion, exactly? Should he buy a Mac Pro something or other for $3500?

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I meant to add, you have never seen me take part in a Mac-PC discussion before.

I'm not participating in that discussion. I'm talking to tebop, who cannot afford to be a Mac snob and dismiss the PC. He wants to render big and fast, and he cannot pay for the Apple that does the job. Anything else is just irrational.

Rationality is not subjective - the motives, desires, requirements, goals, constraints, etc of an individual decision are different for each user, and I do not dispute their right to have these different needs.

My use of irrational is in that specific context - when the individual IGNORES his own reality, then he is irrational. I never suggested he had to pay attention to MY reality, as you implied.

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Hi All
( Violating my own promise regarding entering the OP's  threads)

>>Diplomacy filter deactivated<<
This redundant  Mac vs PC price debate nonsense completely IGNORES the very obvious
nature of the OP 's problem.
POOR WORKFLOW HABITS!!!.
(check his posting history)

I know,I know technically he did ask a hardware question.but as the only experienced animator in this thread (OP included),
I feel compelled to ask:
why is he  loading several hi res DAZ millenium poser figures at a time if he is trying to animate them??.

Answer: he does not know any better and typically ignores any advice that requires LEARNING how to use the features of the programs he already owns.

For example the OP Might be told to use
Low res proxy stand-ins for animation like poser4 'Dork/possette" or similar  and save the motions as animated PZ3 files to his library and apply this motion to this Fully dressed Generation3/4 Daz  figures before rendering.
But this workflow would require prudent planning
and possibly require adjusting the applied animated poses using the poser graph editor.
....not gonna happen here.

The OP has stated In many threads that he has Apple Final cut pro, which support Alpha Channels.
Poser will render single figures with alpha channels that can be composited in FCP to make "crowds".
But this workflow would require prudent planning
and possibly require learning how to use Final Cut pro for post video production as it was intended.
....not gonna happen here.

Except for rare exceptions like WETA Digital and its proprietary "massive" software, NO ONE( ILM, Pixar etc)
packs a scene with multiple hi res figure rigs to animate them all at once and even WETA uses very Low Res
Figures for it Crowd Simulations and alot of film grain
and motion blur in post production

Stewart& others may remember back when I was posting poser animations in 2001/2002 with platoons of marching soldiers rendered on a 266MHZ
first generation MAC G3 with 256 MEGS of RAM.!!
this was accomplished by using every trick and cheat
I could find and when some one was nice enough to teach me a trick to get around My Severe hardware
limitations ( at that time)
I actually made the effort to implement them.

the issue here is not a hardware problem it is a
"Hard Head" problem.

>>Diplomacy filter reactivated<<

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

Heheh, wolfy, you speak some wisdom here. Accomplishing anything with 266 Mhz - wow.

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heh. try a 5 minute long animation for the start of a star trek convention, modeling done on a 486Dx2 66mhz with 8mb of ram and a copy of trueSpace 2, then exported (terribly via 3DS) to 3DStudio R4 for animation and rendering (done on a Pentium 133 with 8mb Ram).

playback required 2 computers, 1 for the sound and 1 for the 'video' (was a FLC file) since one machine alone could'nt play the video and sound together without going badly outta sync.

all terribly primative by the standards of what we're doing now.... but it was liked and I wish I still had a copy :(
(hard disk failure back in '99 killed it)

Aside from workflow problens (wolf - you couldn't be more right!), don't forget tebop is using Poser 6. Which means no multithreading, a 2 GB limit - it's a pure 32 bit app, not a large address aware app - and of course, the Mac does not support that /3G switch, that's a Windows option.

A 4 year old G5 is slow indeed. But Poser 6 is about the same age. I wouldn't expect major speedups from a modern multicore machine, be it a Mac or a PC.

As for "slow machines" and what you can do with them, look up  the user "flak" in the galleries. Those Bryce scenes were made on a Pentium III with 320 MB of RAM! Patience and a good workflow is what made those extraordinary scenes.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery   My freestuff

Depending on how populated you want the scene and what the characters are doing, it may be worth your time to take a look at other apps. You'll never be able to render a scene like this one in Poser, not on one pass anyway.

 "The OP has stated In many threads that he has Apple Final cut pro, which support Alpha Channels.
Poser will render single figures with alpha channels that can be composited in FCP to make "crowds".
But this workflow would require prudent planning"

Uhhhh. If you actually read some of my threads , this is one of my techniques i use now.
But i use it for background crowds, i may animate them with automatic walks so it's simple. 

But for main characters, if i have 4 interacting in my scene, then i need these all to be in my scene.

But anyways, thanks everybody. 
I'm ok now

ps. It's not finalcut Pro. it's final cut express( 99 dolalrs)

I know zero about animation but from the questions you're asking, it sounds like you're tackling a highly ambitious project with perhaps too little experience - no offense and perhaps I'm wrong. I know its tempting when you have a grand vision to try to do it all, but maybe starting out with a smaller story, maybe a backstory for one character or whatever might be more practical, with a better chance of a satisfying result. That pretty much applies to anything in life :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

 lmckenzie, 

well yes it's a big story but I'm improving on my last movie. My last movie, had no use of layering, no rendered backgrounds, no background characters.. nothing! 

All my ideas are things i can use to improve what i've done already