Trollzinho opened this issue on Jul 13, 2009 · 54 posts
Trollzinho posted Mon, 13 July 2009 at 5:42 AM
I'm having a lot of problems putting Apollo Maximus arms up (as in when a character in World of Warcraft casts a spell, if we have WoW players around). But anyways, when I try to get his arms all the way up and straight, the armpit gets all weird, the chest and back muscles just doesnt follow up...
Does anyone knows a solution to this?
lesbentley posted Mon, 13 July 2009 at 7:46 AM
I don't have Apollo Maximus, so can't speak directly of that figure, but in general when doing an arms above the head pose, you will get better results if you implement approximately half the rotation in the upper arm and the other half in the collar.
Poser figures in general do not handle arms above the head poses well, and you may need to do some touch-up in postwork. Another option is to try and make corrections in Poser using magnets, though this can be quite difficult.
wolf359 posted Mon, 13 July 2009 at 8:23 AM
Hi
The Apollo max Figure has Always had Very Bad Topology in the shoulder area
Your only option is to try what les suggested or use another figure.
Cheers
WandW posted Mon, 13 July 2009 at 11:19 AM
There was a thread on this a few months back on the old CP forum, but unfortunately they don't have the archive available yet...
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Trollzinho posted Mon, 13 July 2009 at 12:57 PM
In a skinny form (no muscles, no fat), it works kinda ok. But you add a bit of sturdyness and thats it, you can't even put his arms 90' (to the sides). Maybe with a few custom morphs...
Anyone knows a good tool or tutorial to make full body morphs? I used zbrush in the past but never tried adding the changes as full body morphs.
chriscox posted Mon, 13 July 2009 at 4:05 PM
I'm able to get the arms to go 90 degrees to the sides with no problem, but straight up I am getting some distortion but not much worst than with most other figures in Poser. However, Posing Apollo's arms can require using the Collars, Shoulders and Upper arms.
Trollzinho posted Mon, 13 July 2009 at 4:06 PM
M4 from Daz can do it just fine. I'm thinking about just using it, or doing a morph for Apollo.
pakled posted Mon, 13 July 2009 at 7:43 PM
yeah, whenever I use him, he comes in with his arms crammed into his stomach. But it's a minor thing, you just adjust the symmetry under Figure (I think). You could check around for Apollo tutorials.
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anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)
ice-boy posted Tue, 14 July 2009 at 3:06 AM
do you use poser 7? it has the morph brush. if you will not do animation you can use the morph brush .
patorak posted Tue, 14 July 2009 at 9:15 AM
I don't have Apollo either. I was just curious, how come the nipple doesn't raise when the arm raises?
patorak posted Tue, 14 July 2009 at 9:40 AM
wolf359 posted Tue, 14 July 2009 at 10:27 AM
Hi
in the past I have stated many times and posted many images that show that the Apollo max Figure has major flaws
in his muscular anatomy.
he is a nice freebie but his body morphs are not even close to being realistic even when compared to legacy figures like Mike2.
Cheers
Trollzinho posted Tue, 14 July 2009 at 10:28 AM
What would be the best figure out there?
wolf359 posted Tue, 14 July 2009 at 10:36 AM
You will never get a clear answer to such a question here as various figure /merchant loyalists will claim their favorite is the best but in all honesty the recent
Fourth generation figures ( V4/M4) from DAZ seem to be the 'best" constructed comparatively.
patorak posted Tue, 14 July 2009 at 6:38 PM
* Hi
in the past I have stated many times and posted many images that show that the Apollo max Figure has major flaws
in his muscular anatomy.
he is a nice freebie but his body morphs are not even close to being realistic even when compared to legacy figures like Mike2.
Hi Wolf359
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Apollo sold in the marketplace.
hborre posted Tue, 14 July 2009 at 10:17 PM
IIRC, Apollo had his beginning at RuntimeDNA. Now he is a freebie.
LostinSpaceman posted Wed, 15 July 2009 at 12:13 AM
Quote - * Hi
in the past I have stated many times and posted many images that show that the Apollo max Figure has major flaws
in his muscular anatomy.
he is a nice freebie but his body morphs are not even close to being realistic even when compared to legacy figures like Mike2.
Hi Wolf359
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Apollo sold in the marketplace.
Yeah for quite a pretty penny! I think I paid $90 with a discount at CP.
patorak posted Wed, 15 July 2009 at 6:26 AM
If Anton is willing, I'd retopo Apollo for him.
I think $90 is a little steep for a Poser figure. To me, $30 to $40 is a little more reasonable.
hborre posted Wed, 15 July 2009 at 9:16 AM
Anton was going to release a another version of Apollo but there has been on recent news concerning an actual date. Best to contact him for any progress. Again, AM is free at Anton's website.
patorak posted Wed, 15 July 2009 at 10:44 AM
Has anyone tried weight mapping Apollo in a higher end app?
ice-boy posted Wed, 15 July 2009 at 1:47 PM
Quote - Anton was going to release a another version of Apollo but there has been on recent news concerning an actual date. Best to contact him for any progress. Again, AM is free at Anton's website.
i have been saying for months.
if the figure is finished why not realese it? and if you dont realese it as free why not sell it?
patorak posted Thu, 16 July 2009 at 5:33 AM
*i have been saying for months.
if the figure is finished why not realese it? and if you dont realese it as free why not sell it?
I remember something about Apollo 08, then It was changed to Apollo 09. Honestly, two years should be more than enough time for a complete rebuild.
MachineClaw posted Thu, 16 July 2009 at 2:15 PM
chriscox picture of the arm raised straight up is not a natural pose, in 99% or people it's just impossible, if you work in Ciquese De Soel maybe. The socket your arm is in will not allow for a straight up bend like that.
Now. Apollomax has NO flaws. There has never been the need for a service pack or fix. Apollomax is exactly as Anton intended the poser figure to be. The most realistic bending poser figure. Meaning there are limits intentionally put in place.
Anton was going to release a '08 or '09 upgrade to Apollomax. The upgrade was not to the figure itself. It was addons such as more morphs, more poses, some clothing he hadn't finished, the updated release of the bodysuit with all the new morphs in it, the facial bread with all the morphs in it and a vein/musle displacement map. I cannot remember the rest. Anton never said what was definatly coming out, he was only doing it for fun and part time and only if time allowed him to. Anton never said he was releasing a new apollomax figure to fix bend issues or joints, one was never needed and it would break all existing Apollomax clothing. The '08 or '09 update was just addon's and it was intended to add to the existing figure and keep all existing products and clothing for Apollomax working no matter what version of Apollomax you have.
If you need a poser figure that bends in a unatural bend go use another poser figure, Apollomax probably will not suit your tastes as Apollomax was always designed specifically for natural posing.
wolf359 posted Thu, 16 July 2009 at 2:52 PM
Well if you show these image to a professional or even mildy experienced organic
modeler he will tell you what is quite apparent :
in many critical areas Apollo Max is Just Poorly modeled and it shows up immediately as soon as you try to apply his muscular anatomy morphs
and I wont even bother to even go into all of the anatomical flaws in his Musculature that make him downright cartoonishand useless for purposes of Medical/anatomical uses.
Cheers
wolf359 posted Thu, 16 July 2009 at 2:52 PM
wolf359 posted Thu, 16 July 2009 at 2:52 PM
Paloth posted Thu, 16 July 2009 at 3:34 PM
M3 snapped like a pretzel where Apollo could bend normally. I doubt M2 was better.
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wolf359 posted Thu, 16 July 2009 at 3:56 PM
Quote - Any Poser figure, even the best one out there, can be made to look bad by user error. There is nothing wrong with Apollo’s arm topology. A superior range of movements can be achieved by using collar, shoulder and upper arms.
Hi I posed Apollo using the shoulder//collar NOT just the upper arm
and did the same with M2
anyway anyone can open the AM mesh in wings or any modeler and see the problem topology areas.
anyway he still makes for a decent FREEBIE poser figure
so one cant really complain.
Cheers
carodan posted Thu, 16 July 2009 at 4:18 PM
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
patorak posted Thu, 16 July 2009 at 10:41 PM
*chriscox picture of the arm raised straight up is not a natural pose, in 99% or people it's just impossible,
Some people use palm out, some people us palm in when doing "pull ups."
Hey Wolf359
I got a good look at the mesh. It's missing 15 of the basic edgeloops for animation. Nice even spacing though. I betcha it takes an orange peel skin shader real well.
Paloth posted Thu, 16 July 2009 at 11:45 PM
*Hi I posed Apollo using the shoulder//collar NOT just the upper arm
and did the same with M2
Ever try to apply the Daz or native Poser poses to Apollo? They don't work for him because the rigging is different. Apollo has an extra arm part. It should be no surprise that a method of posing that works for M2 doesn't work for Apollo. The Daz poses don't work either. You will achieve superior results by using all three arm parts for the poses, and by settling for the pose that looks good instead of finding a way to make it look bad.
*anyway he still makes for a decent FREEBIE poser figure
so one cant really complain.
Yes one can. Repeatedly and with great energy. It makes me wonder if there might be some other motive at work here.
anyway anyone can open the AM mesh in wings or any modeler and see the problem topology areas.
The bad pose was not the result of bad topology.
Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368
dasquid posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 2:10 AM
AM is a good figure that does things that other figures available at the time could not easily or at all.
On the other hand "certain people:" seem to have a grudge against Anton that seems to go VERY deep and that causes them to badmouth everything the man ever did.
patorak posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 9:22 AM
What if I retopo it and rte it to Apollo? We could call it Apollo Reborn.
MachineClaw posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 12:22 PM
you cannot rte apollomax that is in the EULA for apollomax if that is what you were sugjesting.
MachineClaw posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 12:25 PM
Wof359 has been bad mouthing Apollomax since the figure was 1st released saying the same things over and over again - figure is broken, that the figure needs fixing, that the figure has incorrect topology, that the figure blah blah blah.
Don't bash the figure when it was not intended for the purposes that you want to use if for - go use another figure.
Apollomax was built for specific purpose to be the best posing figure for natural poses. Released in 2005 no other figure at the time could do the things Apollomax could.
wolf359 posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 3:10 PM
Quote - Wof359 has been bad mouthing Apollomax since the figure was 1st released saying the same things over and over again - figure is broken, that the figure needs fixing, that the figure has incorrect topology, that the figure blah blah blah.
Apollomax was built for specific purpose to be the best posing figure for natural poses..
Well thats your personal partisan "Spin" on it But the Marketing promotional campaign from 2005 still exists in the various forum histories and they made claims very different from yours.
"THE ULTIMATE POSER FIGURE" is a far cry from:
*** "Apollomax was built for specific purpose to be the best posing figure for natural poses"***
so trying to revise history just does NOT work on the internet.
But hey I am willing to let sleeping dogs lay
or Self exiled Prima-Donnas be forgotten
But lets be honest here your obvious lingering animosity is less about the poser figure itself and more about the division between those fiercely loyal to Anton Kisel and those who were......not.
So no Im not going to repost all the images that show clearly Apollo MAX did NOT have the Correct Muscular anatomical Detail such as serratus, quadriceps. front.lateral,rear deltoids as one would expect from "THE ULTIMATE POSER FIGURE" that was priced at $90 USD at that time.
there is no point as history,prima-donna,melodrama and the poser $markets$$ seems to have made their judgments about the fate of "THE ULTIMATE POSER FIGURE".
an asterisk in the footnote of poser history, like all poser figures eventually become anyway.,
I have long since moved on.....perhaps you should try doing the same.
Cheers
MachineClaw posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 4:40 PM
Wolf359 you have never liked Apollomax since it came out. You have been a proposnet of Daz figures and especially the beef cake mustle morphs in Mike 2 for ages.
If you do not like Anton and you do not like Apollomax then just don't use the figure. Quite lieing about the figure being broken and spewing nonsense that is not true.
I have said over and over again that Apollomax was specifically built and modeled to be the best natural posing figure - Anton for years has reitereatted the same thing. Anton posted many many times to your rantes about the Apollomax figure not being up to YOUR specific specifications and told you over and over again that the Apollomax figure was not built for your specifications and you would not be satisfied with the figure and that you should use a figure that meets your needs.
but keep going on for years about how Apollomax doesn't have the correct muculature even though the figure was not intended to be a bodybulder and how badly the Apollomax figure is broken to you and needs fixes even though over and over again it's been SHOW that your wrong and things can be done to make the figure work the way you want.
Apollomax is too puffy - spin the damn dials it's a starting point.
Apollomax doesn't have defined musles - spin the dials and make a displacement map.
Apollomax hands are too big by default - spin the damn dials or use one of the many included poses it's a starting point.
Apollomax arms won't bend over his head - well yes they can be made to but only with limits that are intended not a flaw.
wolf359 posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 5:01 PM
Quote - Wolf359 you have never liked Apollomax since it came out. You have been a proposnet of Daz figures and especially the beef cake mustle morphs in Mike 2 for ages.
I.
Blah..Blah...Blah.....Blah
Dude...................Seriously
The Threads are archived and the keyboards are cold.
History has decided.
No one cares about this
"Debate" anymore......except you
apparently.
Now if you will excuse me I just figured out how to make my Macbook keyboard type in Arabic as I am studying an Arabic language course
while also learning the basics of our new seat of Luxology Modo401.
.....Quite busy here
So lock up when you "leave"
*( reply notification unchecked )
Cheers.
JenX posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 5:12 PM
Ok, guys, take your personal problems with each other somewhere else. Also, I may not be Anton's #1 favorite person ever, but I'm not going to bash him in public, Wolf, especially when he doesn't come here (to my knowledge) anymore to defend himself. So, just remember, that personal attacks, in any form, are TOS violations.
Jeni
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patorak posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 6:11 PM
Hey All
Sorry I haven't replied sooner, I was at an all you can eat restaurant. Actually, I went there for breakfast and didn't leave til after supper. 3 meals for the price of one!
Anyways, what would it take to keep this figure from dying on the vine so to speak?
Speaking of Arabic, how come we don't have more Arabic Poser figures and clothes too?
MachineClaw posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 6:36 PM
What do you mean dying on the vine?
Apollomax is the only male figure I have installed in my runtime currently. I use Wardrobe Wizard for clothing conversions if needed and post work in photoshop.
LostinSpaceman posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 6:38 PM
Quote - Anyways, what would it take to keep this figure from dying on the vine so to speak?
More support than was offered and a EULA that allows people do do things like RTE Remaps & Re-rigging as you suggested. That won't happen.
Diogenes posted Fri, 17 July 2009 at 8:30 PM
patorak posted Sat, 18 July 2009 at 7:33 AM
Hi All
I'm replying early cause the restaurant wouldn't let me in.
I use Wardrobe Wizard for clothing conversions if needed and post work in photoshop.
Can Wardrobe Wizard convert shoes and hair, too?
patorak posted Sat, 18 July 2009 at 10:17 AM
Hi LostinSpaceman
I'm sorry, I didn't see your reply. I hadn't had my coffee yet.
*More support than was offered and a EULA that allows people do do things like RTE Remaps & Re-rigging as you suggested. That won't happen.
How about an EULA that allows people to make clothes from parts of the mesh?
LostinSpaceman posted Sat, 18 July 2009 at 1:40 PM
Quote - Hi LostinSpaceman
I'm sorry, I didn't see your reply. I hadn't had my coffee yet.
*More support than was offered and a EULA that allows people do do things like RTE Remaps & Re-rigging as you suggested. That won't happen.
How about an EULA that allows people to make clothes from parts of the mesh?
Again. I don't see that ever happening. Anton for whatever reasons chose not to allow it. I certainly can't speak for him as to why, nor would I try.
dasquid posted Sat, 18 July 2009 at 5:27 PM
Quote - Hi LostinSpaceman
I'm sorry, I didn't see your reply. I hadn't had my coffee yet.
*More support than was offered and a EULA that allows people do do things like RTE Remaps & Re-rigging as you suggested. That won't happen.
How about an EULA that allows people to make clothes from parts of the mesh?
I don't think anyone else allows that why should Anton?
patorak posted Sat, 18 July 2009 at 9:41 PM
Hi Dasquid
*How about an EULA that allows people to make clothes from parts of the mesh?"
That statement has nothing to do with existing Poser figures. I threw it out cause I'm putting together the eula for my figure and wanted to see what people thought of that idea.
dasquid posted Sat, 18 July 2009 at 10:30 PM
Quote - Hi Dasquid
*How about an EULA that allows people to make clothes from parts of the mesh?"
That statement has nothing to do with existing Poser figures. I threw it out cause I'm putting together the eula for my figure and wanted to see what people thought of that idea.
Sorry about that misread or something.
Its your figure and your decision. I don't think there are many times when you would want to do that unless you wanted to make skin tight clothing though.
wdupre posted Sun, 19 July 2009 at 1:38 AM
Quote - > Quote - Hi Dasquid
*How about an EULA that allows people to make clothes from parts of the mesh?"
That statement has nothing to do with existing Poser figures. I threw it out cause I'm putting together the eula for my figure and wanted to see what people thought of that idea.
Sorry about that misread or something.
Its your figure and your decision. I don't think there are many times when you would want to do that unless you wanted to make skin tight clothing though.
I disagree, such an option would be very useful for clothing makers even those who don't make skintight clothing, clothing made from the mesh will share the same density of mesh and poly loop flow so will bend with the same smoothness as the base figure. and that's true of loose as well as tight clothing. also I suspect that clothing made with the base figure mesh will morph better if you are using something like morphing clothes because it wont have to average between adjacent verts when calculating the morphs, and for those like myself who hand sculpt their own conformer morphs it would be a lot easier to keep alignment with the underlying mesh if the two meshes shared the same topology.
Klebnor posted Sun, 19 July 2009 at 9:13 AM
Apollo ... downloaded him, tried him, deleted him.
Difficult to work with, at best.
Problematic posing.
No aftermarket support.
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JenX posted Sun, 19 July 2009 at 2:04 PM
There's actually a surprising amount of pretty good clothing for Apollo that I didn't think there was before. I bought a PoserWorld subscription a couple months ago, and I actually re-downloaded Apollo because of all the good outfits they had for him.
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patorak posted Wed, 22 July 2009 at 8:04 AM
*I disagree, such an option would be very useful for clothing makers even those who don't make skintight clothing, clothing made from the mesh will share the same density of mesh and poly loop flow so will bend with the same smoothness as the base figure. and that's true of loose as well as tight clothing. also I suspect that clothing made with the base figure mesh will morph better if you are using something like morphing clothes because it wont have to average between adjacent verts when calculating the morphs, and for those like myself who hand sculpt their own conformer morphs it would be a lot easier to keep alignment with the underlying mesh if the two meshes shared the same topology.
Hi Wdupre
You've convinced me. Clothes makers will be able to use the base mesh on my figures to create clothes.
FrankT posted Wed, 22 July 2009 at 10:26 AM
Quote - I disagree, such an option would be very useful for clothing makers even those who don't make skintight clothing, clothing made from the mesh will share the same density of mesh and poly loop flow so will bend with the same smoothness as the base figure. and that's true of loose as well as tight clothing. also I suspect that clothing made with the base figure mesh will morph better if you are using something like morphing clothes because it wont have to average between adjacent verts when calculating the morphs, and for those like myself who hand sculpt their own conformer morphs it would be a lot easier to keep alignment with the underlying mesh if the two meshes shared the same topology.
How about you ask DAZ to allow that for their figures without having to RTEncode it - They'd sell a truckload more stuff if you could do that :biggrin:
