Anybody here tried the new Freak 4 in Poser yet?

If so what version of Poser and are you having any problems? Looks like a great model, but DAZ has said there could be some scaling issues.

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Yeah there are scaling issues. Poser uses propagating scaling, and Daz has never been able to figure out how to impliment that, so for Freak 4, they came up with something new, that unfortunately doesn't work properly in any version of poser.

Daz hopes that Smith Micro will release a service release with a fix for it, but IMHO I think smith micro thinks that daz should have used propagating scaling, which does work fine in all versions of poser.

I have a feeling, that it is just going to be one of those things that ds does that poser does not, just like all the things poser does, that DS does not.

Look at any of my plus sets.. they all work perfectly in all poser versions, but scaling does not work properly in DS, because DS doesn't emulate poser's scaling functions properly.

I've bug reported it to Daz for the last 4 years, so I don;t think we'lll ever see scaling implemented 100% in DS, because Daz now has an alternate solution they are happy with.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Thanks Gareee for sharing that.
It's really too bad because that is one bad looking dude, nice model. The rigging must have been extensive to get all of those large areas to work smoothly...things can bunch up quickly when you start to scale and morph to those sizes.

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Gareee's post is mostly irrelevant to Freak 4... Fixing his complaint about DS scaling wouldn't help here. The problem is how conformers scale in Poser. (i.e. not that well.)

Poser does have bugs that serve no purpose and could be fixed

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

So does this mean that poser users can't use the Freak 4?

They have to sacrifice either some of his bigness, or his clothes

I know which one I'd take

I mostly rendered Freak 3 nude anyway.

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

edit:

Or they can parent clothes instead of conforming.

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Or they can use the built in Wardrobe Wizard in Poser 8 and stop making things sound so impossible. Wardrobe Wizard will scale any clothes to any figure and it's free in Poser 8. There's also the other clothing converter software that will do the same thing.

I don't understand what functionality you have in mind. I'm talking about Freak wearing his own clothes

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

so's he.

work around : use WW to refit the clothes to the rescaled freak. bingo problem fixed.

I understand the WW work around. Not a problem having both WW2 and P8. It's getting to be a normal habit to fix things to work right these days. LOL. Besides actually pay for the privilege to fix things to work.

the way I look at it, we can complain (rightly!) about problems like this, but in the mean time, we use the tools we've got to fix 'em and get on with it...

to use an old example...

we can wait for a fan belt to arrive to fix the engine... or we can use a pair of tights we do have to get us to the garage...

 Can this really be true.  I bought freak 4 but haven't tried him yet.
I was hoping for quick and easy to use freak 4.  To me this is a big problem.  I am trying to do a comic with hundreds of panels and scenes.  I don't want to spend extra time when I hadn't thought I would need to.  No one told me he wasn't properly poser compatible when I bought him.  their testers should have known and it should have been mentioned in the daz forums.
Love esther

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Quote - Yeah there are scaling issues. Poser uses propagating scaling, and Daz has never been able to figure out how to impliment that, so for Freak 4, they came up with something new, that unfortunately doesn't work properly in any version of poser.

Daz hopes that Smith Micro will release a service release with a fix for it, but IMHO I think smith micro thinks that daz should have used propagating scaling, which does work fine in all versions of poser.

I have a feeling, that it is just going to be one of those things that ds does that poser does not, just like all the things poser does, that DS does not.

Look at any of my plus sets.. they all work perfectly in all poser versions, but scaling does not work properly in DS, because DS doesn't emulate poser's scaling functions properly.

I've bug reported it to Daz for the last 4 years, so I don;t think we'lll ever see scaling implemented 100% in DS, because Daz now has an alternate solution they are happy with.

That's so typical for both of those companies. Instead of supporting each other, they're waiting for the other to take action to solve their own issues. Then they create a workaround that works only for them, thus creating even more problems.

If others with less resources then DAZ can figure out how to do propagating scaling, then DAZ can. I guess that says enough.

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Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Old time poser user, I'm use to fixing things. I only asked about freak as I had bought him on the weekend and have not had the chance to install, yet.

 Never had to use tights. This red neck wouldn't be caught in them.

But I have cut both ends of a tin can to join the muffler to the exaust pipe to get to the shop. They thought it was a cool fix. LOL.

 I thought it was poser comptible when I bought it, and I need hiim for a character I have in mind. I was waiting and waiting for him to be released
I really hope he will work okay in my poser.
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"it should have been mentioned in the daz forums.
Love esther"

it was. right under the release announcement...

 true?  how did i miss it?  why weren't there comments?
i am very disapointed.

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Quote - That's so typical for both of those companies. Instead of supporting each other, they're waiting for the other to take action to solve their own issues. Then they create a workaround that works only for them, thus creating even more problems.

If others with less resources then DAZ can figure out how to do propagating scaling, then DAZ can. I guess that says enough.

And on what sources are you basing your assumption that it not has been tried to fix the problem before release? But it's always DAZ fault, innit?

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

 well I am very sad that my new freak doesn't work like my previous V4 and V3 and M4 and m3 etc worked in poser.
He looks just right for what I need him for.

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Quote - release? But it's always DAZ fault, innit?

or it's always SM/Posers fault.

the blame game's to easy.

DAZ and SM have different business models.  DAZ creates content for sale, and gives away the rendering software.  SM sells the rendering software, and throws in some content just to show it works.  I fail to see why DAZ should be expected to bend over backwards to make sure it's latest models work well in Poser.

Perhaps they would like Poser users to try DS.

It's just a thought.

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device.  Beige horizontal case.  I don't display my unit.

Again, propagating scaling isn't relevant to this

DAZ's choices were

1. make F4 a morph that only works right in DS, and maybe someday in Poser
2. make F4 a morph that works in both but doesn't scale up any body parts
3. have F4 be another standalone figure.

We got 1 and 2

I wouldn't be opposed to petitioning for a 3 though B)

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

As Tzorg pointed out, the problem is with scaling of the conforming clothing. Studio scales clothing along with the base figure, in Poser this doesn't happen and things can get wonky. To use Freak4 in Poser without hassle, just load him and dial up the  NoScale morphform to 1.  That's ALL you've got to do. Some of the proportions won't be quite as those in Studio, but the figure is otherwise perfectly usable.

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Or maybe FreakScale down from 1 to 0. But you get the idea, it's just one morphform to dial for all clothes to conform properly, as long as they've got the Freak4 morphs added

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It's not that hard to get clothes to fit Freak 4, even with the scale on, even with the clothes conformed.  You just have to unhide the scaling from the body parts of the clothing and dial in a bigger chest.

I think all this hullaballoo about Freak "not working" in Poser was just a way to make everyone play the blame game.

Indi.

I've only tried him with his pink tutu.

Naked, he's working great in P7.

He takes skin textures from M4 characters.

He is destined to be my new fire elemental creature. 

Does P8 do caustics?  with all it's new lighting stuff?  It would be cool to make the flames look like it's inside him.

Everyday, I turn into more of a second skin clothes horse.

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Are you allowed to say horse on this forum?

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

*nnneeigghhh *  tee hee

a horse to pull my royal carraige -

would the horse carry Freak?  or would Freak carry the horse?

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Quote - DAZ and SM have different business models.  DAZ creates content for sale, and gives away the rendering software.  SM sells the rendering software, and throws in some content just to show it works.  I fail to see why DAZ should be expected to bend over backwards to make sure it's latest models work well in Poser.

Perhaps they would like Poser users to try DS.

It's just a thought.

Klebnor

Here's another fight I really don't have a dog in. I never used Freak 1. see no reason for a Freak 2, (although I did download the base), and probably will never use him.

That said, it's unlikely DAZ is ready to chase off more than half of it's revenue stream just yet.

At the very least, I'm sure their merchants aren't.

If you combine F4 with H4 you can get some pretty whack faces

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Ok, if it's so easy to fix - and turning off FreakScaleOn doesn't count in my mind as a "fix" - how about instructions for:

1. Default F4
2. Pretty In Pink Tutu

I have purchased the M4 add-on to the built-in Wardrobe Wizard in Poser 8.

I basically have no experience fitting clothes, so many of your terms won't make sense to me without precise detail.

Thanks!

Whichway

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=50718

Although not a 'true' fix, this may help a bit. Conform the figure to Freak4, then run this script by Dimension3d on the clothing.

Quote -

That said, it's unlikely DAZ is ready to chase off more than half of it's revenue stream just yet.

At the very least, I'm sure their merchants aren't.

Perhaps I'm dense, but how would producing a single model that's cumbersome to use in Poser chase off more than half it's revenue stream?  Or any of it's revenue stream, for that matter?

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device.  Beige horizontal case.  I don't display my unit.

Thanks, raven. That seems to do the trick for now. I'm still pretty befuddled by conforming clothing, which seems to mean very different things in Poser and D|S, morph injection and all that. Do you know of any good tutorials I might try as starting points? I prefer things heavily on the technical side. Thanks again.

Whichway

Ok, Raven hit it on the head.  I put together some images to show how to do all that somewhat manually, but he managed to do it in 50 words or less, which is better :)

Indi.

Indi, I wouldn't mind the manual description so I could start to get an understanding of what is going on.

Whichway

Ok, here goes.  First load up F4.  You wanted Base F4, so that's what I loaded.  If you select his "body" you'll notice that he's got the Monstrous Body dialed to .7  (70%)  that's base F4, so we'll work with that.

edit: arghhhh can't figure out how to upload a file.. Please hold.

Quote - > Quote -

That said, it's unlikely DAZ is ready to chase off more than half of it's revenue stream just yet.

At the very least, I'm sure their merchants aren't.

Perhaps I'm dense, but how would producing a single model that's cumbersome to use in Poser chase off more than half it's revenue stream?  Or any of it's revenue stream, for that matter?

Klebnor

Well, one morph figure may not cause a significant revenue loss. There will be some lost sales by those that won't bother buying because of it. Poser users are more than half of Daz content sales.

Now if it was a next gen figure, that would be time for poser users to be concerned. I don't think Daz is ready to cut that revenue, yet. IIRC, DAz had stated in some thread that they were working with SM on something or at least in communication. So I don't think the complete split will happen yet or at least not till a "DAZ SOON." LOL.

 First load up F4.  You wanted Base F4, so that's what I loaded.  If you select his "body" you'll notice that he's got the Monstrous Body dialed to .7  (70%)  that's base F4, so we'll work with that.  

Now you can't see it, but the chest has been dialed to 114%.  If you have a utility (like the one included in the poses of the Marvelous Morphs package, and I've used others) that unhide scaling dials you can see this perfectly if you select M4's chest.

Now, select M4's body, load the tutu, and conform it.  Notice that it doesn't fit, but if you select any body part you can see the Monstrous Body morph dialed in to 70%

Now you'll need that utility to unide the scaling dials.  It's just a script, I'm sure there is a free one.  I'll see if I can find a link to it.  If you then select the "chest" body part of the tutu, you can dial in the 114% (the actual freak morphs have the chest dialed to 120%.  70% dial is 114%  - 20*.7=14).  Once you dial in that chest scale, the dress will fit.

Image after dial:

Now you can pose him however you like.  Hope this helps.  I'll look around for that free script that unhides dials.  It was svdl or d3d, though.

Free unhide dials script is by d3d and is here:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=37119

Indi.

Indigoone, you shouldn't need to use the script to resize the bodyparts, that's what the FreakScaleON morphform does: sets the scaling for F4: if you've got it at 0, everything fits fine as all is at 100%

Also, if you make sure you've got F4 selected when loading the tutu, you shouldn't need to do any dialing of the morphs on the clothing either, as it's set to crosstalk. So for Poser, it should be as easy as:

• load Freak4
• select Freak4's body, and under the  Morphs|ShapesThe Freak 4 morph group, turn FreakScaleOn to 0
• making sure your F4 is selected, load clothing and conform. If it's a DAZ item it will crosstalk automatically.

Whichway: the scaling affects conforming, and as far as I understand, in Poser, the fall-off zones (the instructions that clothing uses to bend and pose when conformed) don't scale with the clothing even if you do scale each body part, so you end up having odd bends and things go wonky. That's why you do need to turn off the FreakScaleOn dial, because otherwise your clothing will not work. This isn't just a question of Freak4, but will happen with any figure and clothing if you use the individual scale dials for the bodyparts.

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Argh. This is why all my guys keep complaining about the cold. So, FreakScaleOn is worse than useless in Poser and I can't make F4 that big if he's going to wear anything? Or is FreakScaleOn doing something hidden that can be done another way? And I just took a stab at Mafioso and that looks like there is no way it can fit anything like the size of Base F4? How do I learn how to navigate the clothing chaos? Help!

Whichway

the FreakScale4 resizes the chest up to 114% (up from 100%, so it's just a 14% increase).  So you're loosing some size but not all, what Indigone showed above is F4 with scaling at 100% in Poser, so you're not really missing THAT much.
This is Freak 4 with and without scaling in Poser (FreakScaleOn to 1 on the left, 0 on the right):

As for Mafioso, I've got no idea what you are doing. But following the procedure I outlined above (load F4, dial FreakScaleOn to 0, load clothing and conform) I've got this without needing any adjustments:

Both of the above were captured from PoserPro. Of course they are not renders, but just screencaps.

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Ok, something is screwy.

Poser 8
New document, delete Andy so no figures
Load base F4
Set F4 Body FreakScaleOn=0
Load each Mafioso clothing item and conform it to Michael 4 ,a.k.a., F4
This is what I get. Not at all what you get.

Whichway

[This has to be the world's stupidest forum software. Grr....]

Try again to attach a picture.

Whichway

Apparently there is some sort of grotesque cross-talk going on here. The first item of clothing loaded will fit and conform correctly, but subsequent items will not. Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

Whichway

As I mentioned above, make sure you've got M4/F4 selected with each clothing item you load. That's the way to have crosstalk working.  So...

• load M4, made sure you've got it selected
• load 1st item of clothing, conform
• select m4 through the pull-down menu or through the hierarchy window (good reason to have it open)
• load 2nd item of clothing, conform
• select m4 through the pull-down menu or through the hierarchy window (good reason to have it open)
• load 3rd item of clothing...

... you get the idea.

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Huh! Lacks a little something in the intuitively obvious department, but I guess I'll take it. Thanks so much, I would never have figured that out on my own. Now I may actually be able to *use* all those various outfits I've bought over the months.

Whichway

You're welcome :) I know people do find crosstalk a bit annoying, and as creators it can be a chore to get it into each item, but when you're dealing with the new figures with so many different morphs, it is the way to go to make life easier on everybody.

If you have any further problems or questions, feel free to send me a PM.

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Quote - Indigoone, you shouldn't need to use the script to resize the bodyparts, that's what the FreakScaleON morphform does: sets the scaling for F4: if you've got it at 0, everything fits fine as all is at 100%

Also, if you make sure you've got F4 selected when loading the tutu, you shouldn't need to do any dialing of the morphs on the clothing either, as it's set to crosstalk. So for Poser, it should be as easy as:

• load Freak4
• select Freak4's body, and under the  Morphs|ShapesThe Freak 4 morph group, turn FreakScaleOn to 0
• making sure your F4 is selected, load clothing and conform. If it's a DAZ item it will crosstalk automatically.

Whichway: the scaling affects conforming, and as far as I understand, in Poser, the fall-off zones (the instructions that clothing uses to bend and pose when conformed) don't scale with the clothing even if you do scale each body part, so you end up having odd bends and things go wonky. That's why you do need to turn off the FreakScaleOn dial, because otherwise your clothing will not work. This isn't just a question of Freak4, but will happen with any figure and clothing if you use the individual scale dials for the bodyparts.

Arien,

I'd like to keep the scale ON to the Freak, as would other users.  I know it fits if you turn it off, but you also change the body shape (as you know).  The method I gave is for it you LIKE the way Freak looks with his scale on.  If you do find wonky bumps because of fall-off zones, then you can adjust those separately, as usual.

Also, I didn't once instruct anyone to alter the morph dials that already exist.

Just so no one is confused...

Indi.

Ah my bad. Misread what you were saying, my apologies. I'm having a similar conversation elsewhere where people asked about having to apply morphs to each part, must have crossed wires and mistook one thread for the other.

Anyway, even if you do this scaling, you do get pokethroughs when posing, and for someone that is only now figuring crosstalk (like Whichway), I think adjusting fall-off zones might be a bit too much, and I'm still not sure things would work properly on most cases.

For what is worth, I've heard both from SM and DAZ that they had been in touch about getting this scaling for clothing issue worked. So we can cross our fingers and hope that we'll see a fix for this soon so we don't need to do any more juggling of dials.

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Arien - i sure hope there is a fix soon.
that's very good news.
love esther

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Yup, Arien hit it on the head...that's typical of how you have to load the clothing if it follows the figures morphs.
If part of you clothing scales with the figure and not another part then you forgot to select the figure somewhere on the loading.

Thanks everyone for sharing pics and stuff.

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