just got my sticky little mits on the Freak 4 pack, trouble is none of the conforming clothes that come with it work properly, am i doing something wrong?

i have tried loading the figure (with morphs included) then loading the clothes, i have also tried loading the figure setting the desired shape, then adding the clothes, neither work.
any ideas?

Einzy.

Nope, according to Daz there is a problem with the scaling in Poser that stops clothes made for any of their figures from fitting properly, funny how I've never noticed it before the Freak4 but there you go.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

monkey trumpets! :D
 seriously though is there a fix? or am i left with useless clothes (without a lot of faffing)

Turn the FreakScaleOn morph to zero and the clothes should fit then.

Another way is to use the free copyscale Python script by Dimension3d that is available in the freestuff here. You select the clothing and then run the script.

ah, good man, will give it a go.

Quote - funny how I've never noticed it before the Freak4 but there you go.

ditto. I understand exactly what you mean.

You're not doing anything wrong, DAZ did something wrong. Instead of admitting that, they tell us it's Poser's problem and that it has always been a problem. The only problem is that most of us have never encountered this so called problem. Been using numerous of DAZ figures and clothes and never had any problems. It's a shame that DAZ often does things that aren't too pleasant for Poser users and then blames others for the problems they cause.

I'll keep on using Freak3, instead of Freak4. He works fine and has no problems with conforming clothes. The only one that's loosing out is DAZ, no more Freak4 purchases from me, until they fix the problem properly.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

If you were to do a little bit of research you'd find that it is in fact a problem in Poser that has been known for a long time already, but you may not have encountered it if you have never used figures that utilize scaling to change body proportions. Many of those who have used Apollo Maximus for instance are well aware of this issue.

I don't know how well DAZ has informed their customers about this issue, perhaps they could have been more in-your-face about it.

@Raven, can't seem to find the script in free stuff, searched for copyscale and python scripts
any other locations? google didn't help

ah yes forgot to say, tried setting freakscaleon to 0 but it didn't work.

Here's the link.  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=50718

There is nothing wrong with Posers scaling. Daz Studio just uses a different type of scaling, so they set up F4 for that. Freak 4 scales perfectly fine if you set up the scaling for it in Poser, it's part of the rigging.

People around the forums usually start blaming D/S or Poser for differences. But the fact of the matter is that they are two different apps that have different ways of doing things and sometimes they just dont match up.

This issue is also present in V4 and M4, its just that no one usually scales them by very much (small amounts dont cause problems.)

Having said that, it would have been nice to have a Poser version that has the scaling set up for Poser. I usually just do it myself, as I have for David all the way through M4- V4, it takes some patience and time, but if you set up the scaling properly for Poser they will scale perfectly fine. Poser scaling has its advantages as I'm sure D/S scaling has.

This is also true for the rigging, figures created using D/S only simulate Poser rigging when you export them for Poser, and there are small differences. Most times, those differences do not cause any problems but occasionally they do.

You have to remember folks, that if you buy a product that is made for a different app than the one you are using, even though they may be mostly compatible, there are occasionally going to be problems. You can learn to solve those problems yourself, it's a bit time consuming but not really hard. You can rely on apps that will fix them like the one above, or not purchase products not made for Poser. (which is the way I am leaning)

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

thanx for the link
 i thought i was buying a poser product.

Einzelganger:

Most people think the same thing, if its a Daz figure then it's made for Poser.  Which in most cases is true but not always. I have been using the D/S setup tools since they came out because they were more advanced than the Poser setup room. But since all my stuff is for Poser I just take them into Poser and set up all the scaling there and adjust the joints for Poser.

Since P8 came out though with its improvements, I am happily back in Poser doing all my rigging there.

Poser and D/S are diverging in small ways more and more. I think we are likely going to start seeing more of these compatibility issues in the future. For instance I know that the new rigging options in Poser 8 are not going to be of use in D/S but for me the advances are too tempting to use, so I will be using them regardless of whether it works in D/S or not.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote - Having said that, it would have been nice to have a Poser version that has the scaling set up for Poser. I usually just do it myself, as I have for David all the way through M4- V4, it takes some patience and time, but if you set up the scaling properly for Poser they will scale perfectly fine. Poser scaling has its advantages as I'm sure D/S scaling has.

You wouldn't happen to have a tutorial handy on setting up the scaling for Poser?

ok, got the script, but have no idea how to use it :D
i have it in the python menu, but after that dunno.
any help appreciated.

Einzelganger: I have never used it but I am sure someone here will know.

Quote - > Quote - Having said that, it would have been nice to have a Poser version that has the scaling set up for Poser. I usually just do it myself, as I have for David all the way through M4- V4, it takes some patience and time, but if you set up the scaling properly for Poser they will scale perfectly fine. Poser scaling has its advantages as I'm sure D/S scaling has.

You wouldn't happen to have a tutorial handy on setting up the scaling for Poser?

I do have one that I did to show someone from another site how to set up the scaling for the M4 Gens but I'm not sure if it's appropriate for this forum, but here it is. If you're easily shocked dont go look. The basic principles are the same for any body part.

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

You will do this for all the various scaling dials for each body part. And just basically work with it till it is scaling properly. Sometimes its a little tricky, but most of it is pretty easy.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

interesting vids, one of many areas of poser i have never fiddled with

 quote "You have to remember folks, that if you buy a product that is made for a different app than the one you are using, even though they may be mostly compatible, there are occasionally going to be problems. You can learn to solve those problems yourself, it's a bit time consuming but not really hard. You can rely on apps that will fix them like the one above, or not purchase products not made for Poser. (which is the way I am leaning)"

Thing is DAZ never said they make their products for daz studio.  I used to shop a lot at daz i the days when there wasn't a daz studio software, and just because the developed one, I really didn' tthink that meant they would start making their main pose people work particularly with that.  If that was the case they wouldn't make materials that work in poser etc.  I think if their figure is not (like the previous michaels and vickies) fully poser compatible they should definitely have said so.
Love esther

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Quote - I do have one that I did to show someone from another site how to set up the scaling for the M4 Gens but I'm not sure if it's appropriate for this forum, but here it is. If you're easily shocked dont go look. The basic principles are the same for any body part.

You will do this for all the various scaling dials for each body part. And just basically work with it till it is scaling properly. Sometimes its a little tricky, but most of it is pretty easy.

Is this something you have to do every time you change the scale, or is it a general purpose fix?

Is it possible to create an injection pose which injects the F4 morphs and scaling and applies the necessary adjustments to the joints?

Cool stuff Phantom, it's always educational to watch someone else work flow. When you do as much rigging and creation as we do sometimes you get in a rut, so it's refreshing to watch some else!

Comitted to excellence through art.

Thanks DarkEdge, I agree, it is great to watch another rigger work. One of my favorite things to do is study anothers work.  :)

hoplaa: I was just thinking about that. Yes I think it could be set up in a pz2 file. It is a permanent fix and yes you could load all the morphs. You would likely need to set up new ERC dials for some of the figure but can be done with a pz2 file as well. if you were carefull setting up the scaling all of the morphs, including the JCM's aught to work fine. The likely problem is going to come with all the add on products which will be using the original scaling. Each one would need be corrected for Poser. That could likely be handled by Wardrobe Wizard.

It sort of becomes a mess when you have to change things like that after market.

I am thinking someone aught to just make a Poser Freak and be done with it. Same for every other future figure made by Daz that does not work properly in Poser. Just get together and start making our own.  Thoughts?

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Here DavidGB discusses the issue I was thinking about: forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php

I don't know if he's correct, just thought you might be interested.

Yes I've heard the Daz party line befor. :lol:

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote -

I am thinking someone aught to just make a Poser Freak and be done with it. Same for every other future figure made by Daz that does not work properly in Poser. Just get together and start making our own.  Thoughts?

Would the Poser Freak work with the Daz Freak clothes?

For the record, I think Daz should have been up front about this, they say the Mike Displacement maps are daz only and that is easier to change in the material room than this freak mess.

Would the Poser Freak work with the Daz Freak clothes?

For the record, I think Daz should have been up front about this, they say the Mike Displacement maps are daz only and that is easier to change in the material room than this freak mess.

Well clothes are not so hard to make either. I have the perfect mesh for a freak character, I'll get started on the sculpt tonight. We dont really need Daz to make everything, we can do a better job of it ourselves. And we can be assured that it will work in Poser 4-7 and 8

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote - We dont really need Daz to make everything, we can do a better job of it ourselves

gasp!
I think Vicky is gonna open a can of whup-ass on you! :lol:

Comitted to excellence through art.

If one wants or needs another designation for a larger than life character I suggest, among other possibilities:

Antaeus, Atlas, Beowulf, Grendal, Colossus, Goliath, Mammoth, Samson, Thor(ston), or Titan.

LMK

[PS, I would be patial myself to Beowulf. :) lmk]

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Don't forget Tarzan and Conan the Barbarian!
DPH

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

 but I really like the look of freeak 4 - waaaaaaawaa!
I would certainly buy a well supported F4 like figure for example brad muscled up, however I fear his soon will be even longer than daz soon.
Love esther

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Esther do you not have Wardrobe Wizard yet? You can use it to transfer any clothing you like to a fully beefed out Freak. For what it's worth, DAZ did say that F4 wasn't fully Poser compatible on their website when he was released. You just have to read the forums as well as the fine print to find it out.

 I do have WW but because I make a comic with multiple panels I need stuff that works easily.  I have problems adjusting joint zones with WW.
However saying that I haven't tried F4.  He's on my puter but I haven't even loaded him in because of all these threads about hwo he doesn't work well.
I would really love that Pz2 that would change his clothes and his rigging etc if there was such a thing available I would buy it!!!
Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

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?

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

S

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

30K Poly mesh

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

 He looks absolutely fantastic!  I don't mind if he's an even heavier mesh providing he works well.
Have you used displacement map with him?
Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

 I've installed F4 (what a marathon and to be honest my heart wasn't really in it). Here he is. I conformed one of his outfits to him.  Then I used the copy scale script.  One arm of the clothing looks fine, and the other awful!! Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

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 He says he's M4 when I load him up too.  See the sleeves.  Note a difference again?

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No no displacement. Just a decent mesh.

The problems you are seeing is because Daz did not bother to set up the Poser scaling. If you set it up you wont have those problems. D/S does support Both types of Poser scaling regardless of the new Daz party line. They simply didn't bother to set it up for Poser. If you want to check and see load an older cr2 like luke3 or David into D/S and try the scale dials. You will find they work perfectly well, for those older figures they did set up the Poser scaling.  They did not set the Poser scaling up for M4 or V4 either. Wich is why you notice such a big difference between say David and M4 with the scaling.

In this figure and M4-V4 they use a type of smooth scaling (XYZ) and they just tied all three together with an ERC dial and hid the original scale parameters, which are the equivalent of Posers. But D/S also supports propagating scale (at least it can use it) So The new party line is a sack of shit for gullible people to believe. And then of course they will tell you that if you Use D/S and dump Poser you will not have any scaling problems.

Basically if you want the freak to scale properly you will have to set up the scaling yourself.

Now, the conforming clothing will not follow the scaling when you scale the figure in Poser. That is a issue in Poser that I wish they would fix. But basically since the Poser scaling was never set up for these figures properly , all the conforming clothing made with those rigs also does not have the scaling set up for Poser. Which means that you have to set it up for them as well.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

 It really sounds a bit too difficult.
So if I did set up the scaling myself for poser, I would then have to adjust all the clothes?
And what about the poses made for F4 - would they still work?
Love esther
PS Brad looks fanastic.  But I know non-daz figures don't get as much vendor support.

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

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*"Now, the conforming clothing will not follow the scaling when you scale the figure in Poser. That is a issue in Poser that I wish they would fix. But basically since the Poser scaling was never set up for these figures properly , all the conforming clothing made with those rigs also does not have the scaling set up for Poser. Which means that you have to set it up for them as well."

And all THIS is one of the reason why I stick to my remapped Dork and Posette!
DPH

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

 Dork don't quite have the look I'm after.  Brad does though.

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I'm gonna try and get my money back, but considering the ethics they are displaying lately its probably fat chance of that. That really frickin irks me, not that they chose not to set the figure up for Poser, which they easily could have, (if I can, they can) but because they lied about it and the reasons for it. They should have just been honest and said they didn't bother to set it up for Poser. Well they can lick my cherry red from now on.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote - I'm gonna try and get my money back, but considering the ethics they are displaying lately its probably fat chance of that. That really frickin irks me, not that they chose not to set the figure up for Poser, which they easily could have, (if I can, they can) but because they lied about it and the reasons for it. They should have just been honest and said they didn't bother to set it up for Poser. Well they can lick my cherry red from now on.

Where has DAZ lied about the scaling issue? And further, if Poser still can't handle conformed figures with scaling properly, I can see why one might choose not to bother. After all, the scaling in F4 is relatively minor from what I've seen, so you're not losing all that much by disabling it.

So what display of ethics are you talking about? DAZ has a 30 day unconditional refund policy, which is plenty more than can be said about pretty much every other store.

They CHOSE not to set up the scaling for Poser, the scaling in Poser works perfectly fine if you set it up. That is not an issue of Poser origin but rather because of what Daz CHOSE to do. They're cracksuckin lying  pukes. They chose to create the scaling issue themselves. And they certainly knew what they were doing.  Oh ya their ethics are just fine, it's perfectly fine to lie about whatever you want as long as you make a buck. None of their shit is suitable for Poser if it cant scale. Poser handles conformed figures just fine if you have the Poser scaling set up so you can scale the conforming figure. Sure it does not automatically scale the conforming figure but if the Poser scaling was set up you could at least scale it by dialing it in. Daz CHOSE not to set up the scaling for Poser. Therefore their figures are worthless shit as far as I'm concerned.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

You still didn't tell me where they have lied about it though.

Granted, it should be mentioned on their product pages since it's generally assumed that their products are compatible with Poser.

Phantom3d, since Smith Micro has acknowledged the problem with how scaling is handled in Poser, I believe them. I guess you think they're cracksuckin lying  pukes too.

Hoplaa wrote;

Quote - DAZ has a 30 day unconditional refund policy,

Phantom3d knows this just like everyone else. Unfortunately some people get their jollys bashing DAZ whenever they get the chance.

Phantom3d wrote; > Quote - Sure it does not automatically scale the conforming figure

That is the point you are missing entirely. That is the problem with how scaling is handled in Poser. Why people are having such a hard time understanding that I don't know.

Coldrake

**

**

Poser did not change their scaling, prior Daz figures scaled fine in Poser, but Daz chose not to support Poser scaling anymore and didn't bother to set it up and they wont own up to it. Then they try to turn around and say that this is Posers fault. That is a lie. Oh and by the way they say if you get D/S you wont have scaling issues, ha what a joke Daz scaling is these days. The conforming issue has nothing at all to do with how Poser handles scaling it is an issue of transfring the scaling to the conforming clothing..

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

 I'm very disappointed about it too.  I waited so long for F4 to come out, and the problem is not at all minor.  
Love esther

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For those of us who are less knowledgeable, but still daring (foolish?), could some one give some hints or a receipe (even a tutorial) on how to alter a generation 4 DAZ figure to propagate scaling. I am assuming that the same process would work on clothing? Some of us are not repelled by the idea of doing challenging things for ourselves. I believe that there is a script somewhere that copies scaling from a figure to a conformed item.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

 I tried that copy scaling script - see some of my attache images with sleeve problems on the left side.
love esther

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 I wrote this queston to SM and they did not answer it.  If you read between the lines it looks like no.
I can't get to their links, but I dont really want a workaround. I want a work.  Perhaps SM think their figures are just as nice as daz ones and why don't we just use theirs?

My question was "I know it isn't SMs fault, but it looks like DAZ have made their F4 figure to only work well in DS. Is it possible you could somehow adjust poser in a service release so that Freak 4 and ongoing daz figures will work properly? This is very important to my posing happiness. I would hate to have to start using Daz Studio as I much prefer poser."
Their reply was "
I apologize for the difficulties. DAZ3D Indicates that the Freak 4 Clothing may not be compatible with Poser. Poser has always used the propagated scaling. DS has started using Smooth Scaling, which is not compatible. There are a few links with instructions and tips on getting these items to work in Poser.

John Csaky | Customer/Tech Support"

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I don't mean to minimzie the difficulty. If I could get DAZ figures to propagate their scaling, then it would be worthwhile to figure out how to make the cloths fit. Seeing that I do not do annimations, getting the cloths to fit from the angle that I want to render is easier than if the figures had to move.

lmk

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

phantom3D I  think you are way off base with your accusations. the only scaling problem that the freak has in poser is with clothing, which is a known bug with poser scaling, something that DAZ has publicly stated is the issue something that the makers of poser have always admitted was a problem in poser, and you admit that problem yourself, so why do you insist there is another scaling issue that DAZ is not telling people about? Why all this talk of DAZ doing it wrong, please show us a way that a figure with scaled bodyparts can work properly with conforming clothing in poser.

I'm gonna be gone for awhile maybe a couple of weeks. Just got a commission to do a scale 3D model for a sculpture to be built at the Zhuhai Shizimen Business District, in China. China is building a new city there. Anyway big money for me, I need it. And if the sculpture does get built, a big bonus.

I'm excited! My third piece of work in 3D for the regular world.   :biggrin:  Even you can not bring me down today  wdupre.

So, much as I would like to continue, gotta go.  But when I get back I will put together a movie showing what is actually wrong with the scaling in the Daz figures and hopefully put the boot to all the Daz lies.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Lol!

Coldrake

Congrats phantom! Well deserved, really like the freak style figure you're working on. Good luck.

Congratulations! Send pictures if you can.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Thanks lkendall, mike1950,

lkendall:  I'm not going to China LOL, I wish.  No I mean I dont have much time, only two weeks to finish it and it's an entire industrial park thing with the sculpture as the center. So, I wont have much time to be hanging out here, or making movies, till I'm done. It's only my third piece so I really want to get it right.

I'll send ya a render or two by Email of the project. Cant share it on line though, yet.

I'm also not the sculpture artist, just doing the 3D piece. But good money.

Cheers see ya all in a few.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

OK here's a movie explaining some of the problems with the M4 figure and some work arounds and fixes for you.

It is in 3 parts. I made it very quickly and its not the best, but I dont have time right now to do it over.

I picked up some more work from my last project (amazing how word of mouth gets you work) so am very busy right now. I will try to get back and answer any questions on how to in case someone does not understand how to use these fixes.  Watch in full screen since its a bit blurry, also the sound is slightly ahead of the action.

Cheers,
Mike.

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

nice 1, thanx

*"I picked up some more work from my last project (amazing how word of mouth gets you work) so am very busy right now."

phantom3D:

Thanks for the videos, and congratulations on the work!

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Thanks phantom, figured these problems with F4 were something like that.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

 Hi Phantom,
nice videos, but it isn't quite a full fix. However it does make the postwork less.
I'm still going to wait for your muscleman brad to come to the MP.
Love esther

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Freakin Freak! Aargh, just wanted to add another voice to this, firstly thanks to those who pointed out D3D's copy scaling script, it helps and with that and tweaking morphs on body parts and adding magnets I've managed to fit some clothes to F4 and animate him. Nothing I've tried has stopped Bracers and arm-bands from poking in or through. Arms seem to be particularly problematic. So sleeveless tops or long sleeves with arm parts hidden seems to be the only way.

Has anyone tried re-opening a Freak pz3 after going through all the scaling fun and games? (insert expletives of choice) using Poser 6 the scaling goes all over the place, clothes revert to M4 some of F4's limbs stay Freakish others drop back to M4. Tried saving poses, including body translation and morphs, applied to the existing figure or a fresh one, the results are the same.

The only solution I've found here is to set up animate and render without closing and hope the blighter doesn't crash during render (rendering as a sequence of stills of course)

I do feel however that Daz has misrepresented the situation, they didn't make any attempt in all their sales pitch to mention the problems, they advertised all as Daz & Poser products, they did supply me with Poser versions on my account D/L page which I think would imply that the products are usable in Poser. The fact that they do seem to work on M4 is beside the point when I bought the Freak bundle.

Thanks to phantom3D for the videos I'll watch them when they won't get me sacked!

 Yes, i think it was a bit misleading, and because of that I haven't bought the elite M4.  I don't trust the poser compatibility anymore.
It is a shame because the daz figures are so good that they have developed a kind of mystique about them and quite a fan following.  I used to feel so excited everytime a new one came out.
Other people are starting to make good human figures for poser now though.  there's a new poser female at rdna coming out very soon who looks quite promising.  Brad looks really good, but he's been in the pipeline a long time and who knows what kind of support he will have from vendors or when he will actually appear, but at least it is starting.
I feel sad that daz treated it's loyal customers that way. It was poser that made their figures so popular in the first place. I feel like they are abandoning me.
Love esther

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estherau:

exprssnimg at RDNA says that the new female figure, "Eva," will scale properly in Poser. This figure is due out on Friday. A male figure is under consideration (suggestions are apparently welcome).

lmk

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

 I am going to buy her!!  they posted a pic of her mesh and although I am not a modeller I do own a modelling proggie and I can see that she should be able to have almost any face you could want with a mesh as detailed as that.
Love esther

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 tell me - if you got a figure like eva for example, then V4 bones in the setup room into her, would that make her able to wear V4s clothes even more easily?
Love esther

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Quote - just got my sticky little mits on the Freak 4 pack, trouble is none of the conforming clothes that come with it work properly, am i doing something wrong?

i have tried loading the figure (with morphs included) then loading the clothes, i have also tried loading the figure setting the desired shape, then adding the clothes, neither work.
any ideas?

Einzy.

The problem with the Freak 4 fits is that the clothing does not have the scale parameters in the clothes. It is not a Poser problem it is the clothing developers that have left out the scale information in the clothing.

That is all I dare say.

Cheers
Randy

OKCRandy:

Can one hack the CR2 of a piece of clothing and add scale information?

lmk

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.