After a very long time of not using Poser I just purchese P8 and am evaluating it compared to Daz Studio 3 witch I am trying for the 1st time. I have had poser since V2.

So far I really like Daz Studio MUCH better than I ever liked poser. Im not bashing just giveing my 2 cents. I always hated the Poser UI, posing tool set, and lack of joint limits and deformation. I think Im sold on Daz Studio for Good, good buy Poser!

I have not upgraded since V5, I am shocked that the new content from 6 7 8 is real crap! OR am i missing somthing. For example those muscle maped figures. are you kidding me??

Any input or other options?

I've switched to DS several times over the years and for some reason I always go back to Poser. I really like the cloth dynamics in DS and the UI, especially the material editor, are also better in DS. But I simply haven't been able to get as good renders is DS as in Poser and I really miss the python scripts and IK abilities. And now that Poser has IDL and faster render speeds I don't think I´ll be switching to DS anytime soon.

Vestmann's Gallery

"lack of joint limits" - I dont understand that comment , I have had Poser since Poser 5 and there has always been limits on joint movements if you enabled it.

The content with Poser lets you get started with a working Male/Female and kids figures , and several sets of them . Daz Studio, last time I downloaded it had a V3 RR fairy figure. Dunno whats bundled with it now .

Daz studio 3 priced out at nearly $500 when Daz released it, for the bundle , so it should be compared with high end apps like Lightwave but thats just my opinion. That still does not include the ability to create dynamic clothing unless I missed that.

I downloaded Daz Studio 3 a few days ago and am in love. I may never go back to Poser---to render. Am having a ball!

<-----I just made this avi in Daz!

Question @**Vestmann

We're unable to use python scripts in Daz? I have a copy morphs script that comes in real handy when adjusting clothes to a morphed figure. Please tell me I can use this in Daz...please.****
**

Quote - "lack of joint limits" - I dont understand that comment , I have had Poser since Poser 5 and there has always been limits on joint movements if you enabled it.

The content with Poser lets you get started with a working Male/Female and kids figures , and several sets of them . Daz Studio, last time I downloaded it had a V3 RR fairy figure. Dunno whats bundled with it now .

Daz studio 3 priced out at nearly $500 when Daz released it, for the bundle , so it should be compared with high end apps like Lightwave but thats just my opinion. That still does not include the ability to create dynamic clothing unless I missed that.

Daz studio always comes with a limited dynamic cloth but you'll have to buy the plugin to change or set any of the settings for the cloth. Also creating your own dynamic cloth for DS is impossible as of yet as the dynamic cloth is a partly conforming figure.

Vestmann's Gallery

Nope, you can't use Python scripts in Daz. But there are lots of scripts available
in the Daz language .... most of the "usual" Poser scripts have some equivalent or
parallel in Daz; either a script or an integral tool.

My python page
My ShareCG freebies

Quote - Nope, you can't use Python scripts in Daz. But there are lots of scripts available
in the Daz language .... most of the "usual" Poser scripts have some equivalent or
parallel in Daz; either a script or an integral tool.

Oh ok. I guess I'll ask around for a Daz script like the copy morphs one by D3D.

Quote - Nope, you can't use Python scripts in Daz. But there are lots of scripts available
in the Daz language .... most of the "usual" Poser scripts have some equivalent or
parallel in Daz; either a script or an integral tool.

That's true. The question is if I´m too old to learn new tricks :) I mainly render single figures and I must have good skin rendering. I use VSS in Poser which is extremely easy to use. You can adjust settings for all skin in one handy place. I've tried the ultimate shader system in Daz and I gave up getting decent results, which is a pity because I would like to use the dynamic cloth system.

Vestmann's Gallery

Why are the DAZ Studio users always coming into a Poser forum to blast Poser with sentences like "I've had Poser since V2"..."I have not upgraded since Poser 5"..."After a very long time of not using Poser"..."So far I really like Daz Studio MUCH better than I ever liked poser. "
Who cares? It's boring.

> Quote - > Quote - Nope, you can't use Python scripts in Daz. But there are lots of scripts available > > in the Daz language .... most of the "usual" Poser scripts have some equivalent or > > parallel in Daz; either a script or an integral tool. > > > > That's true. The question is if I´m too old to learn new tricks :) I mainly render single figures and I must have good skin rendering. I use VSS in Poser which is extremely easy to use. You can adjust settings for all skin in one handy place. I've tried the ultimate shader system in Daz and I gave up getting decent results, which is a pity because I would like to use the dynamic cloth system.

I found a skin shader today am absolutely in love with (USMP) by Lakys.

Yeah I've seen great skin renders done with DS and I know you can get great results with it, I´m just too lazy at the moment to learn how to do it. Besides, going from Poser to DS is a sidestep. If I´ll change completely to a new app in the future I´ll aim for one of the big boys like Maya, 3DS Max or C4D ;)

Vestmann's Gallery

Quote - Yeah I've seen great skin renders done with DS and I know you can get great results with it, I´m just too lazy at the moment to learn how to do it. Besides, going from Poser to DS is a sidestep. If I´ll change completely to a new app in the future I´ll aim for one of the big boys like Maya, 3DS Max or C4D ;)

I know how you feel. Was always learning new things about Poser. Started learning Hexagon and am now using/learning Daz.

I feel I'm back in HS cramming for a test. lol

Quote - Why are the DAZ Studio users always coming into a Poser forum to blast Poser with sentences like "I've had Poser since V2"..."I have not upgraded since Poser 5"..."After a very long time of not using Poser"..."So far I really like Daz Studio MUCH better than I ever liked poser. "
Who cares? It's boring.

To justify the high cost to get half the poser tools or tools that are in complete control of the selling company, as in the DS cloth?

It's usually people who dont have a clue how to use Poser regardless of how many versions they say they have had. There have been quite a number of supposed Poser users in the Poser forum lately with a daz agenda. Hmmm.........

"lack of limits or deformation" Oh yes this guy really knows what he's talking about. :lol:

Life is hard, but what a ride.

To the OP: Of what value was your post in this Poser forum, other than flaming? Go back under your bridge troll.

Hey, I like all 3D tools, and I'm interested to hear about it, and I think the OP was trying to ascertain what advantages people see in poser too.
I mainly use poser but I do actually own the latest DAZ studio too.
I like poser better because of python scripts and IK, and because of the open ness of poser files for hacking so users can come up with new goodies really easily. MAT files were invented by poser users not by the makers of poser for example.
Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

I get a bit of a headache using the DS3 interface, sorry to have to say it. I think DS3 is fun for anime-style renders though.

Me, I still feel more comfortable plying the Poser Pro route. I just knwo how to find stuff and do things more efficiently inside a Poser environment.

Eternal Hobbyist

I use both Poser 6 & DS 2.3 and My Main Render App is Cinema4D R11+ the interposer pro plugin and sometime Vue6 "easel"
as a Character animator I mainly use the FREE Version or DS with the "aniMate" plugin
but I still use poser for its graph editor for final Tweaks
I like having a variety of tools to get the job done
Dont care about any "loyalty" to any particular one

Cheers

CREATED WITH POSER/DS/CINEMA4D

My website

YouTube Channel

I also have DS and do use it. But the OP using statements like
"

I have not upgraded since V5, I am shocked that the new content from 6 7 8 is real crap! OR am i missing somthing. For example those muscle maped figures. are you kidding me?? "

I have to agree, just another troll.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Quote - I also have DS and do use it. But the OP using statements like
" I have not upgraded since V5, I am shocked that the new content from 6 7 8 is real crap! OR am i missing somthing. For example those muscle maped figures. are you kidding me?? "

I have to agree, just another troll.

Both sides know by now, or should know that the very dry straw and wood is always there.
All it generally needs is a hot spark or two and the raging fire ignites yet once again.

I still have P5,P6,P7,PP,P8 installed and DS3 (Retail). I have used DS3 about twice. I mainly bought it at the Daz Huge Intro Release price on the off chance that i may actually want to use it some day.After using Poser 8 and the Poser Pro 2010 on the Horizon, I seriously doubt that i will be using DS3 anytime soon. At best, I use DS as a Utility Tool to export some DS Only items to Poser Format for use with Poser.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

I like DS because I can do quick and dirty with it (things done in a hurry with acceptable results) Poser I enjoy for its versatility, experimentation, all of which takes time.

But I really want to say this constant bull in this my favorite forums lately, I am quite ready to just dump BOTH DS and Poser and never come back. Maybe something else like Zbrush. I hate to but this is way too old.

I come here to read about Poser, I go to Daz 3D to read about DS. I think alot of people do. This place has become a real let down of late, constant bitching, constant recruitment back and forth (most of which is pure lies) And no end in sight. You would think a few problems with the new Poser is the end of civilization or something. And the recruitment trolls are out for the kill. What a nasty place to be.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

I think 3D tools are interconnected these days, and it is hard to just stick to only talking poser in the poser forum. I find discussions interesting.
How else as a poser user would I find out if DAZ studio had some feature that I really find useful. I don't want to hang out at the DS forums when I mostly use poser.
Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Quote - I think 3D tools are interconnected these days, and it is hard to just stick to only talking poser in the poser forum. I find discussions interesting.
How else as a poser user would I find out if DAZ studio had some feature that I really find useful. I don't want to hang out at the DS forums when I mostly use poser.
Love esther

Yet you do Esther. Quite often. :)

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Quote - I have not upgraded since V5, I am shocked that the new content from 6 7 8 is real crap! OR am i missing somthing. For example those muscle maped figures. are you kidding me??

Any input or other options?

No you're not missing anything. They're no good at all. Imagine all the new features we're missing because we pay for this crappy content?

I'm pretty sure P8 will be my last update. I don't like most of the new changes they made to it. They're heading into a direction I don't care about (online renders farms, online libraries, more online focused features) and I don't want to pay for. Let them spent the money on really improving Poser and not adding all kinds of gimmicks. If Poser 8 wouldn't render as fast as it does, I would have returned it. As far as I'm concerned Poser is heading in the wrong direction and new version become less and less exciting. Going from P3 to P4 was wow...... P4 to P5 was very exciting (inspite of all the problems). From P5 to P6 was OK. From P6 to P7 was a waste of money, I can't even remember what was new besides the multiple undo. Poser Pro still puzzles me and going from P7/Poser Pro is worth the rendering speed improvement and IDL is interesting, but still not worth the upgrade price. Poser 8 to Poser 9 will not happen for me, I've lost interest in those unimpressive mediocre new version, hardly offering anything new or worthwhile. If I feel the need for upgrading, it will be to something else, that's worth the hard earned cash.

I'm keeping a close eye on D/S. At least DAZ is adding worthwhile features and D/S is getting better and better and more interesting. D/S isn't up there yet, but if they keep on going in the rate they do go, they will overtake Poser soon. For now, I'm not switching, but use them alongside at times. Poser still is my main tool, but who knows for how long that will be the case. I'm just having a hard time departing it, because I invested a lot of money it it.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I use both, Poser and D|S, although not the advanced version. I've invested too much time in learning Poser's lights and materials to switch over, I can write some Python scripts without consulting the manual and I have a working dynamics system, which I can use for every model I want. I like the new render speed and IDL - even if it will show it's full potential most probably after SP1.

In Studio, I like the much easier workflow in posing a figure, and the setup-tools, especially Morph Loader Pro. But I did not manage to get anything good looking out of it yet - I assume I would have to buy some shaders and light plugins to get things done. At the moment I don't see a reason why I should learn this, though - buying a big application like Cinema and rendering with a render engine like AR3 or VRay sounds more promising. But at the moment I accept what I get from Firefly, until I have money and time to change.

About the previous Poser upgrades - Poser 6 brought IBL and AO, Poser 7 a big speed improvement in Raytracing - and the ability to use multi-cores. Then there is the morph brush, which I do use a lot for small fixes and support for HDR textures. The upgrade to P7 was worth every penny, and I'm sure P8 is worth even more. Let's talk about this in half a year, and I'm sure that the Python extensions in P8 will be a much bigger advantage as they seem to be right now.

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori.

Use both, like both. Each has its strengths, each has its weaknesses. Not going to get into any application wars beyond that, because everyone else will have their own opinion anyway.

The "mine's better" stuff is getting pretty tiresome, to be honest.

I think Poser 8 is a major upgrade! It has a new UI that makes you able to actually work and render from the cloth and hair room. It renders much faster, it has IDL and a lot things I haven't even tried yet like dependent master dials and an updated morph brush. What do people expect from an upgrade? A completely new program?

As for the OP I think it's good to discuss the pros and cons of Poser vs. DS. I try to keep an open mind towards DS and who knows, maybe someday I´ll make a switch. But the fact that I´m sticking to a buggy first release of P8 instead of working in DS says a lot.

Now, should we discuss Mac vs. PC next? ;)

Vestmann's Gallery

Mac vs PC ...

Use both, like both.

I am an "on the fence" kinda gal, huh? LOL

While we're going OT 2010 Bowtie Camero or 2010 BlueOval Mustang...

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

Quote - Use both, like both. Each has its strengths, each has its weaknesses. Not going to get into any application wars beyond that, because everyone else will have their own opinion anyway.

The "mine's better" stuff is getting pretty tiresome, to be honest.

Very tiresome, and I tell ya seeing all the bull here just makes me want to delete DS and every piece of Daz related content from my HD and never use any ever again, even though I know its not Daz corporate making these posts. Turns me off completely. Poser users getting in on the act too, but I think in reaction, and this is a Poser forum after all.

Poser and DS are both great apps and both usefull. I would happily go on spending money in both places. The whole thing is becoming sour milk though.

How long befor we have some peace?

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Quote - While we're going OT 2010 Bowtie Camero or 2010 BlueOval Mustang...

That's easy. The 2010 Mustang thank you very much! ;)

Vestmann's Gallery

Quote - Why are the DAZ Studio users always coming into a Poser forum to blast Poser with sentences like "I've had Poser since V2"..."I have not upgraded since Poser 5"..."After a very long time of not using Poser"..."So far I really like Daz Studio MUCH better than I ever liked poser. "
Who cares? It's boring.

They must get lonesome in their own DAZ forum, considering there are literally over a million
posts in the Poser forum and less than 14,000 in the DAZ forum. I guess they just need
someone to talk to.

Decisions, decisions, decisions. 35 minutes till lunch. Should I have a Coke or a Pepsi? :tt2:

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Ah, in the coke vs pepsi battle, I'm not on the fence.

PEPSI!

Are you kiddin' me?! Pepsi is just a watered down version of the real thing!

COKE!! lol

Vestmann's Gallery

I prefer RC Cola myself.

Users, users, users.

I love Poser, quirks and all.
What I do like about Daz Studio are the following: The toon render, and from the vid I saw on the Advanced version was the Morph Following, and the thing where you set up different dots and as you move the cursor, you get a type of animation between the poses that the dot represent.
I dont like the paying "extra" for the stuff that is built in Poser.

Besides we all know its '63-65 Split Window Corvette Stingrays, and Canada Dry Ginger Ale, sheesh! :biggrin:

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

Quote - Decisions, decisions, decisions. 35 minutes till lunch. Should I have a Coke or a Pepsi? :tt2:

Do you need to ask? PEPSI of course. Pepsi Max thank you!

Coke Zero, actually.

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori.

Fazzel wrote;

Quote - They must get lonesome in their own DAZ forum, considering there are literally over a million posts in the Poser forum and less than 14,000 in the DAZ forum. I guess they just need someone to talk to.

That's 14018 threads, not posts. If you're going to make a feeble attempt to put DAZ down, please make some effort to get your facts correct. :lol:

Definitely Coke. :biggrin:

Coldrake

Theres a whole lot of fuss being made about IDL in poser.

This is Indirect Light Transfer in DAZ Studio (Nudity):
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1549351

Check the date, thats almost two years ago!

but then consider that the program I use professionally, Cinema 4D, only got bucket rendering last week!!! :blushing:

regards
prixat

Quote - Use both, like both. Each has its strengths, each has its weaknesses. Not going to get into any application wars beyond that, because everyone else will have their own opinion anyway.

The "mine's better" stuff is getting pretty tiresome, to be honest.

I agree with you 100% on this one. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses. I'm able to create certain styles of art easier in Poser, and there are other styles that I can create easier with DAZ3D. There's no law saying that a person HAS TO LIKE one more than the other. I've seen wonderful art and animations created with both and I'm happy that DAZ3D stepped up their game and created a better version. That's how it should be. Both Poser and DAZ will benefit from each other getting better. It raises the quality standard of both.

Frederick
Poser By Design

Mountain Dew for the Win!

Quote -
They must get lonesome in their own DAZ forum, considering there are literally over a million
posts in the Poser forum and less than 14,000 in the DAZ forum.

Hrm - not counting the Bryce, Hexagon, Carrara, Developer, and other sundry subsections, I count roughly 1.6 million posts in total at "the DAZ Forum" - at least at time of posting of this wee missive.

Dunno how lonely one can get in that crowd...

(...point is: if you're gonna be snarky, maybe it would help to use a better-defined set of parameters from which to do it? ;) ).

Cheers!
/P

The fuss about IDL, for me, is only because I can't/don't have access to other programs, I've tried 3 times to learn to use DS and failed, I wanted IDL, and now I have it, and it matters a lot.

Thanks for the idea - I hadn't tried this type of render in P8 yet. 4 minutes to render in P8 SR1 Beta.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

4 minutes is fast!

I think I used DAZ Studio v1.8, with 4 distant lights, GI, a complex skin shader (SSS, translucency etc), I vaguely recall taking about an hour and a half!

Then with ILT switched on, about a day and a half! :laugh:

regards
prixat

prixat,

Thanks for the info. I was curious how you had your lights set up and how long your render took in DS. Of course, that was an old version, so there's not much to be judged from the info, but it's interesting, nonetheless.

I used only one spotlight, and an IBL. But most of the ambient light is from the backdrop and floor - I used the Poser 8 "Studio" prop.

Of course I have a complex shader on this, too. My VSS skin shader. The texture is GND4.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

The DOF can increase the rendertime a lot, so the rendertime isn't compareable at all. But 4 minutes for that ( on your dualcore laptop ? ) is a very fast result.

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori.

Poser cause there is no vss and bb shaders for daz.
camero or stang....challenger!
mac vs pc, PC (PC doesn't mean windows).
and coke vs pepsi , Coke add's life. (I seen it on tv must be true).

> Quote - The DOF can increase the rendertime a lot, so the rendertime isn't compareable at all. But 4 minutes for that ( on your dualcore laptop ? ) is a very fast result.

I did one with DOF, but there's a bug in SR1 Beta that made artifacts, so I didn't post the image. The render time was 5 minutes with DOF!

What the heck, if you'll forgive the artifacts, here is the DOF version.

I posted a bug report on the DOF - I'm sure they'll fix it.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

that's pretty quick for DOF.
Looking forward to Sr1
Nice render.

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

To me the DOF seems so bad that I wouldn't make any value judgments based on that image. Or are those just compression artifacts on the blurred edges?

hoplaa,

As I said, I wasn't going to post the image because I'm using Beta software and there's a problem at the moment, causing artifacts around object and image boundaries. I was responding to the point raised that render time without DOF might be wildly different than with DOF. As far as I can see, the DOF rendering has been re-implemented, resulting in a huge performance increase. However, it isn't finished, and is producing artifacts. I think the information I have to offer about performance of a DOF+IDL render is still relevant, even though the artifacts have to be fixed. Most of the time, artifacts like this have been simple arithmetic errors that, once corrected, do not substantially change the render times one can expect.

If anything, as SM finds and fixes problems, we are able to use lower values on render settings and at the same time get better results than before. That is the point I'm trying to convey here. In the initial release of P8, it was not possible to get such a clean render (the one without DOF) in so little time. Now IDL is rendering very nicely at ridiculously low settings for Indirect Light Quality - I used 6 out of 100 here.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Wow, that's impressive. Hopefully they get things ready for SP1 soon - I would really like to try that too....

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori.

I do not claim to hold a candle to bagginsbill's magical talents.

Base P8 AlysonLoadedm orphed a little, posed and render ed at 100% IDL and just 1 IBL..
13 minutes for me from start to finish rendering.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Quote - I do not claim to hold a candle to bagginsbill's magical talents.

Base P8 Alyson loaded morphed a little, posed and rendered at 100% IDL and just 1 IBL..
13 minutes for me from start to finish rendering.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

DOF artifacts, so that's what's going on been pulling my hair out trying to figure out what was going on. Though I'm sure I checked poser pro to see if it was a bug and it happened there too, I though I was doing something wrong. It seems those artifacts at least the ones I've been getting are transparent to an extent in a weird way. BB I guess your back ground colour is black. I tried with white and cyan and noticed it was selected background color. Even if there is multiple objects behind the back ground colour leaks out.

Quote - Use both, like both. Each has its strengths, each has its weaknesses. Not going to get into any application wars beyond that, because everyone else will have their own opinion anyway.

The "mine's better" stuff is getting pretty tiresome, to be honest.

Amen to that :)

It doesn't matter which one works best for you the artist. Frankly I don't really care, I just like looking at the work and I work with what I work with, because it works best for me.

The OP had no intentions of coming in on a fact finding mission, it was to troll pure and simple. Why the bashing? I could never understand that. My toy isn't any better then your toy, just different...you do what you want and let me do what I want without shoving something down my throat and we'll all get along just fine....and I promise I'll do the same for you. We need both. I have no want or need for either Poser or DS to fail....competition is a good thing, keeps the market stable and prevents one corporation from controlling the market.

But yeah, the diatribes are getting just a little much. I'm beginning to think that discussing religion and politics would be mild compared to what I've been reading in the Poser vs DS topic. It's not like it's Armageddon or anything just because Poser 8 has bugs....it's still got a lot of good stuff going for it :) They're listening they'll work it out.

For myself, I'm just glad that the oppotunities to do this exist at all :)

I'll have a coke please :)

Dr. Pepper, AMC Javelin, FinalRender.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

"It doesn't matter which one works best for you the artist. Frankly I don't really care, I just like looking at the work and I work with what I work with, because it works best for me."

Agreed.

With time at a premium these days, I tend to stick with what is easiest and most familiar to use in order to achieve my own goals. For those who can spend the time, good on ye. :)

PS: Red Bull, Jeep Wrangler, POV-Ray ('cause I'm sentimental like that :) ).

>>> We need both. I have no want or need for either Poser or DS to fail....competition is a good thing, keeps the market stable and prevents one corporation from controlling the market. <<<

I feel the same way. We need both. The people behind these apps are good, and very talented people that are totally devoted to what they do. The products they make have given me endless hours of enjoyment and fascination, and both have improved my ability to express myself in more ways than I can count.

Pepsi, Jeep Cherokee, and no one's mentioned Cinema 4D w/InterPoser Pro yet. ;-)

Poser 8 vs daz studio is like windows mobile phone vs iphone ... winmo is an open system with a lot of tweak options, iphone is a key in hands phone for noobs ...

Sorry but it's real ...

Génération mobiles Le Forum / Le Site

iPhone. There's an app for that. Best phone I've ever had.

Yes, we do need both.

Even if you're looking for the Voltaire reason (to paraphrase) "If DAZ|Studio did not exist, it would be necessary for Curious Labs to create one", competition is good.

In any field, when one product has total dominance, everyone else suffers. Back in the bad old days of 96% marketshare of Internet Explorer, Microsoft had near-complete dominance of the web browser market... and Internet Explorer simply languished. Nothing new or exciting came out. Security sucked - any random 13-year-old with a text editor who could type "javascript" or "IFRAME" could destroy your computer.
Then Firefox came along... and suddenly became HUGE (those of us in the Linux community have known about it for years, but it never really took off until there were Windows and OSX versions). Internet Explorer, one of the linchpins to Microsoft's dominance of the web, dropped from 95% marketshare in 2001-2002, down to less than 60% now, and it is still falling hard. Microsoft is still struggling with trying to keep what they do have, even as it copies concepts from everyone else to do it. Meanwhile, this opened the door for Opera to expand, Safari to rise, Chrome to come along, and nowadays a very vibrant market has arisen. End result? We now have a LOT of choices, and new features arriving all the time.

Operating systems? Look at Windows 7 - you would have never seen half the eye-candy and features present in it if it were not for Apple and OSX growing rapidly in strength and marketshare.

Poser? Poser 5 would have languished, and Poser 6/7/Pro/8 would have probably not have half the new features they had if it wasn't for DAZ|Studio's existence and growth. DAZ|Studio would not have had IBL and all its other goodies if it wasn't for Poser's additions of them. The two challenge each other, and we end up the winners.

Quote - Poser 8 vs daz studio is like windows mobile phone vs iphone ... winmo is an open system with a lot of tweak options, iphone is a key in hands phone for noobs ...

Sorry but it's real ...

Err, not exactly. It's a lot more complex in there. :)

Windows Mobile is losing it's butt in marketshare right now - and not only to the iPhone. Palm (Pre), Google (Android), and RIM (Blackberry) have been eating Microsoft's lunch and dating its girlfriend. Even HTC, WinMo's biggest champion, is abandoning WinMo for the Android.

By the by, the iPhone is actually quite open - their only restrictions are that you do not compete directly with their core processes (e.g. don't put Skype of Google Voice on there), or try to violate security. Otherwise, the rest has to do with quality.

Android is completely open - make what you want. WinMo is somewhat open (you pretty much have to get and use Visual Studio for the libraries... and you don't want to know what all of the required bits cost). The global leading phone OS Symbian is (as of recently) open source. Palm I don;t know about, though... simply because I do not know. :)

"By the by, the iPhone is actually quite open - their only restrictions are that you do not compete directly with their core processes (e.g. don't put Skype of Google Voice on there), or try to violate security. Otherwise, the rest has to do with quality."

Sooo, porn, farts and baby shaking are a core process or a security threat? Perhaps they will say they were too low quality. I think DoJ is still trying to figure out the Google Voice thing.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - But I simply haven't been able to get as good renders is DS as in Poser and I really miss the python scripts and IK abilities. And now that Poser has IDL and faster render speeds I don't think I´ll be switching to DS anytime soon.

Hi
Ive built stuff for Poser for nearly 10 years and beta tested the app too (prior to Smith Micro).
I have Poser 7 (havent upgraded to eight)
I use both apps...but recently I do prefer Daz Studio 3 advanced.
On the subject of rendering...well the basic Firefly is Renderman code that was licensed by Curious Labs at the time of version 5.
Now that Renderer has been upgraded a little over time, but the engine is basically the same.
On the other hand the Daz studio 3d delight Renderer by DNA is also used in Maya, Soft Image XSI etc... hi end apps that demand accuracy in rendering wether it comes to shadow maps, IBL lighting, Global Illumination whatever.
What I am trying to say is this, there is no way that the Firefly is even on an equal par the the 3 delight Renderer.
Now if you get better renders from the Firefly...you know it better thats all.
With the 3 Delight renderer in DS3 you have to wind the shading rate down to 0.2 or thereabouts to get totally detailed renders...and you will get them.
Now if you render a 1 pixel transmapped hair texture with a lot of strands in the Firefly you will see distortion lines, you wont see them with the 3 delight renderer simply because it traces more accurately.
Also place a light several hundred feet from a figure (like trying to simulate sunlight etc...) and use the shadow maps and you will be amazed how inaccurate they are in the Firefly.
Now of course you would usually use Raytracing or IBL etc..or some kind of global illumination, but it gives you an idea how innacurate the Firefly renderer is.
Now that said...I am not trying to bag Poser...I still use it a lot, and a lot of areas in it are very useful...But I have to say the renderer is not in the same league as the 3 delight Renderer which has been used in the Chronicles of narnia...Superman returns etc...

Cheers

Yeah, I know what you're saying and I'm sure it's all true but like I said before I'm just to impatient and lazy to learn a new system. I´ve tried several times with DS but I've never been happy with the workflow which is annoying because I think the GUI is much better in DS. Thing is, there is no point in having a superior renderer if you're struggling with a single pose or if you're not satisfied with your shaders.

I´m very happy with the new features in P8 so I think I´ll be sticking with it, at least for now.

Vestmann's Gallery

Quote - "By the by, the iPhone is actually quite open - their only restrictions are that you do not compete directly with their core processes (e.g. don't put Skype of Google Voice on there), or try to violate security. Otherwise, the rest has to do with quality."

Sooo, porn, farts and baby shaking are a core process or a security threat? Perhaps they will say they were too low quality. I think DoJ is still trying to figure out the Google Voice thing.

pr0n app for your iPhone (link semi-safe for work)

The fart ones are still in there IIRC, and the baby-shaking app was pulled due to general public outrage (whihc is understandable).

By the by, I don't own an iPhone - I use the Crackberry Curve I got issued at work, and given that personal calls never exceed 30% of the volume I get on the thing, it suits me (esp. since it costs me $0.00 per month) . A 2GB microSD chip packed with music completes the deal.

hman, while it is true that 3Delight is used in other apps and may be the better renderer that does not mean that you can use that power easily in Studio. You IO'm pretty sure you cannot use the same shaders as a Maya user can, and you don't have the same options.

About crystal-clear renders, well - if you choose a low shading rate and switch off texture filtering, you get a crystal-clear render in Firefly as well. I'm the last to say that Firefly does not have bugs, but it works for me, I get good renders from it. I've got good results with depth mapped shadows in the past, but recently I very much prefer ray traced shadows, because they look much better.

If you get better renders from 3Delight, that's great. The renderer most proably has more options then Firefly has at the moment, but many of them cannot be used from D|S at the moment, and others need to be bought. And, to my experience, Firefly isn't half as bad as you make it here.

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori.

Pepsi.

:-P

It's what you are accustomed to: Coke...Prius (because I'm a geek who likes to watch the graphical feedback)....Starbuck's Iced (straight up)....Fake Butter on my Popcorn.

I use both...plus C4D/Vue for a lot of my renders. I like Daz for the aniMate series....I can make a finely tweaked animation and export it to Poser Pro.

I have also been experimenting with Daz and Collada(whatever) and find it works well in C4D 11/11.5. But I use a lot of dynamic cloth and I find the Dynamic cloth in Daz not ready for prime time. Also Daz does not interface with Vue...Poser Pro does...this is also important, for me.

Poser 8 is a vast improvement over the other Posers, but I'll have to wait until Poser Pro 2010 to get the export advantages. There have also been big improvements in Poser animation with "dependent" linkage of movements. The arm bends and the bicep muscle can be dependently morphed on the amount of bend. You can make the direction of the twist of the neck dependent on the direction of the eye movement (or vice versa)......to me this is big, and could, eventually put Poser into getting the respect it deserves.

I talked to some of the developers at Siggraph 2009, and I can tell you that SM is quite aware of Poser's potential and they are a hard-working and enthusiastic bunch. I'm amazed at how much they get done and how little they sell this amazing program for. I just bought C4D 11.5 Bundle for nearly $4000....yes, it's expensive....yes, it's worth it...I feel Poser is more than a bargain. I also own the Daz Pro...I just haven't used it for "finished" pieces because I haven't found the lighting I like ..... The downside to Poser, which I expressed to the Poser designers is the extremely awkward lighting setups (hate it)...that's whay I buy so many light sets.

I agree about the lights. Poser is my fav and the new DP is going to really take off soon I think. But the lights are so hard to get in just the right set up (for me at least) especially those spot lights :cursing: The render engine in Poser I think is very good, I have never been able to get a decent render out of D/S, I have seen others who could though so I know it can be done, I just dont know how.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Quote - Pepsi.

:-P

I thought this one was settled:

COCA COLA is the Real Thing! (preferably P8 flavored with a hint of SR1 ;)

Vestmann's Gallery

Quote -
hman, while it is true that 3Delight is used in other apps and may be the better renderer that does not mean that you can use that power easily in Studio. You IO'm pretty sure you cannot use the same shaders as a Maya user can, and you don't have the same options.

Yes Agreed...that is absolutely true, however the shaders in DS are getting better and better, so its good they have a renderer that is capable of those advanced types of shaders.

Quote -
About crystal-clear renders, well - if you choose a low shading rate and switch off texture filtering, you get a crystal-clear render in Firefly as well. I'm the last to say that Firefly does not have bugs, but it works for me, I get good renders from it. I've got good results with depth mapped shadows in the past, but recently I very much prefer ray traced shadows, because they look much better.

Yes again..true, the Firefly is fine for a lot of things.
But even with a low shading rate in the Firefly and texture filtering off...I still cant get the level of detail I can in the 3Delight render...and that is important to me.
However there are many amazing renders done in the Firefly...its the artist that makes the difference...and I realize that is the most important thing always.
I still use the Firefly for some things...because I find the Poser shader tree a little easier to use than the DSA ones...they are a bit more visual (IMO)
As far as the shadow maps go...yes raytracing is nicer, but sometimes shadow maps are good to use as well, but they are unusable in larger scenes in Poser.
I was on the beta test when the Firefly was first implemented (when Steve Cooper was the boss) and I complained about this back then (before DS was anything much) but they didn't do anything about it.
Same in Poser 6...they did nothing about...so I did no more betas from then on.
Now what I have found ...is that using both along with AO works best...you can see an example here in a city I built and developed the lighting for as well
(you have to use the magnifying glass to zoom in)
http://s223.photobucket.com/albums/dd184/hjmann//
In other words it would be nice if they fixed this problem with the shadow maps so they are usable in larger scenes...along with a bit of fine tuning in the detail department.
One good programmer could do that fairly easily...maybe SM may look at this?

Quote -
If you get better renders from 3Delight, that's great. The renderer most proably has more options then Firefly has at the moment, but many of them cannot be used from D|S at the moment, and others need to be bought. And, to my experience, Firefly isn't half as bad as you make it here.

It wasn't my intention to make it sound bad...basically all I am saying is its not as good as the 3 Delight (even with DSA current shaders).
This is not a trumpet call about Daz or DSA.
As you probably know the 3 Delight is developed by DNA research... not Daz!!...and thats a good thing because it's their baby, and it is developed aggressively, whereas the Firefly will get updated in time by SM, therefore it probably will be much slower in it's development, because SM have a lot on their plate.
BUT!! that aside...a good Poser user that knows the app and has an artistic eye...will get brilliant renders from the Firefly in most situations.
Again I use both apps regularly...they both have their strengths (and I am glad they are both there...competition is always good)
Cheers

> Quote - Yeah, I know what you're saying and I'm sure it's all true but like I said before I'm just to impatient and lazy to learn a new system.

Ha ha...yeah I know exactly what you are saying...I compose music as well, and I spent about six "&*$!!##" hours trying to figure out how to drag and drop a Kontakt 3 sequence into the midi host, the thing was sooo complex..I was just bewildered....and angry as well.
I spent the whole afternoon just getting nowhere...so I totally sympathize with you on this.

Quote -
I´ve tried several times with DS but I've never been happy with the workflow which is annoying because I think the GUI is much better in DS.

Yeah I struggled with the workflow in DS for quite a while.
Until I discovered how to create my own rooms..this was a real eye opener for me.
I enclosed a screen shot.(at the top of this post)
Each Activity Tab (outlined in yellow) is a workroom, with a custom set of tools, views,camera postions, save and load locations and more...all you do is set up a room how you like to work, hit the tab and you are in a new app so to speak.
Not many DS users know about this feature (it takes a little work to understand it) but once you do...your workflow will increase dramatically.

Quote -
Thing is, there is no point in having a superior renderer if you're struggling with a single pose or if you're not satisfied with your shaders.
I´m very happy with the new features in P8 so I think I´ll be sticking with it, at least for now.

Again very true...I still like the Poser shaders and stuff too...I dont use DS for everything...not at all.
I am a long time Poser user and it fits like an old glove, but I am using DS more and more and am very happy with it .
I think I may buy Poser 8 soon tho...there are some features in it I would like to use.
Cheers

Quote - ...competition is always good) Cheers

Damn straight. Competition pushes both sides to raise the bar, up their game, etc. Without competition, whether you drink coke or pepsi, neither would have advanced as quickly or as far as they have. Healthy ompetition is especially good for us end users.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Poser 8 VS Daz Studio