gabrielle_bri opened this issue on Sep 26, 2009 · 124 posts
gabrielle_bri posted Sat, 26 September 2009 at 11:49 AM
Has anyone else had experiance with Faceshop? I am having an terriblel time trying to get texture right when I create a new one they come out looking almost black on the males?
Many thanks Bri
hborre posted Sat, 26 September 2009 at 12:46 PM Online Now!
Unfortunately, the program is not as versatile as it should be. I have had repeated problems getting the results I desired. Momentarily, it is shelved indefinitely.
gabrielle_bri posted Sat, 26 September 2009 at 1:03 PM
Yes I agree I wish I had not bought the wretched thing but the video made it look so simple lol.
Vestmann posted Sat, 26 September 2009 at 1:20 PM
carodan posted Sat, 26 September 2009 at 4:35 PM
And yet the marketplaces are still happy to sell it. IMO it should never have gotten past the testing as it fails to deliver the marketing blurb.
Sorry, FaceShop just annoys me.
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Niles posted Sat, 26 September 2009 at 8:34 PM
I did not upgade, because the first one was the all time worst product I ever bought.
Jeff_Kraschinski posted Sat, 26 September 2009 at 9:42 PM
I've been happier with the latest versions of the software, but it's still far too buggy and troublesome to be a part of regular workflow.
carodan posted Sun, 27 September 2009 at 7:32 AM
It's not cheap either for what it does(n't) do.
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pigfish9 posted Sun, 27 September 2009 at 1:10 PM
I think I managed to get a total of three morphs and no texture maps between all the crashes. I got my money back from DAZ on this one.
Believable3D posted Sun, 27 September 2009 at 3:05 PM
I've seen several people get good results with it. But I certainly was not one.
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gabrielle_bri posted Sun, 27 September 2009 at 3:13 PM
I have tried so many times now and it crashes A LOT omg does it crash but the worst is the lack of texture ect. I could kick myself for not researching more. But as I eat beans all next week because I bought it I will prob just get more aggrivated lol.
AbaloneLLC posted Wed, 21 October 2009 at 6:47 PM
Attached Link: FaceShop "Tricks and Tips"
Also, maybe read the "Tricks and Tips":
http://abalonellc.com/faceshop-pro.html
Laslo
fls13 posted Wed, 21 October 2009 at 9:30 PM
I like this app. I know I don't have the most recent version, but I've been well satisfied with it. Any app that helps get rid of any of the Poser characters stock look is a good app in my book.
carodan posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 4:12 AM
Sorry guys, but this is not an issue about taking time to learn it, and I never expect a "Make Art" button with any app I use.
There are features in the standalone version of FaceShop4 that just do not reliably work and that cause instability and crashes on a predictable level.
For example, I've never been able to save a file from FS that isn't corrupt and unopenable, whatever figures I'm using.
The mirror function doesn't really work, often creating (when it does work) horribly distorted morphs (and yes, I know it's recommended to dial the resulting morphs at 0.7 - makes no difference, a bad morph is a bad morph).
The texture output (when you get an output) is poor and requires significant reworking to be usable.
Morph export (via export of obj. mesh) is extremely unreliable.
Moving between various options in FS (e.g. positioning points and curves in frontal view and then moving to the profile view & vice-versa) causes corruption of the file and usually crashing.
I'll re-iterate - this is in the standalone version of FS, used in conjunction with Poser 7.
I feel (and I reported such as a user review and as a complaint to Renderosity Marketplace) that this software should not have passed through any kind of testing and certainly shouldn't continue to be sold here - just my opinion.
If the Daz integrated version works ok that's fine, but the standalone version for use with other apps is a complete waste of time IMO, and fails to meet with the marketing claims on the marketplace page.
Anyway, TPTB seem to disagree with my view as it's still sold here. Maybe I am just crazy and wrong.
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Anthanasius posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 5:15 AM
I agree with carodan at 200 %, unable to have a good morph ...
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lisarichie posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 9:54 AM
Ah....Fakeshop or is it FaecesShop? Blasted app is like herpes, just keeps coming back even though it's not something anybody would really want.
Ever noticed it's always the same three tired renders that are used to claim it works as advertised in direct opposition to the much more numerous experiences that it does not?
fls13 posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 12:30 PM
It's threads like this that make me realize that Poser people just want a "Make Art" button. Pathetic really . . . . :O)
santicor posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 1:09 PM
I like Faceshop
I approach it like a BASE tool for changing the mesh though - I dont expect it to be a "one visit does all" tool.
I have had great results starting with Faceshop and then tweaking aspects to fine tune them in other aps that I already have...... like Poser and W3D.
Faceshop is good.
Its not that expensive so why moan about it if it's not your cup of tea.
to the O.P:
Your texture looks black? or just kinda color washed out and dark-
plain dead black i cannot answer to,
but if you mean its really dark- i suggest starting with a photo that was taken in indirect sunlight as opposed to flash lit. You want a base photo that appears brightly, but naturally lit.
To Laszlo ( if you check in again)
I think that there is still a little instability in a general sense.... with backing up on steps if you decide you are not putting your points in good spot.
Maybe this is causing some frustration for people.
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carodan posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 2:08 PM
Quote - It's threads like this that make me realize that Poser people just want a "Make Art" button. Pathetic really . . . . :O)
You're kidding, right? You have to jump through so many hoops placing marker dots and curves with FaceShop, and it crashes so often that I actually found it easier to go back and hand-manipulate the vertices in a modeller with my references set up in the old fashioned way.
FaceShop is about as far away from a 'Make Art' button (a term that's becoming a bit of an easy derision in 3d) as you can get.
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fls13 posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 3:05 PM
Quote - You have to jump through so many hoops placing marker dots and curves with FaceShop, and it crashes so often that I actually found it easier to go back and hand-manipulate the vertices in a modeller with my references set up in the old fashioned way.
Placing marker dots . . . oh my! If you can use a modeling app, you're an exception in the Poser world. I can use one too and still like Face Shop. Essentially, it's the Face Room for any head mesh. It's a quick, easy tool to get rid of the stock look on Poser heads, nothing more and nothing less. If you want more, you have to do more.
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 3:12 PM
Quote - It's threads like this that make me realize that Poser people just want a "Make Art" button. Pathetic really . . . . :O)
I had to comment on this. I am not a "Make Art" button person in the least. I am a content creator and also like to customize characters, most especially trying to do lookalikes and unique characters. Take a look at my gallery for some of the unique characters I've recently done with FaceGen (which is the software on which the Face Room in Poser was based).
As much as I really tried to like FaceShop, I honestly have to say it is a disappointment in a lot of ways. The morphs come out with a lot of distortion, and the recommendation is to dial the morphs back to about 50-60 percent. Problem is, when you dial the morph back that much, you are fast approaching the shape and appearance of the default figure. The other issue is the textures. You can't get a decent result without a lot of effort.
Please, when people express dissatisfaction with a software program, don't automatically assume it's because the program doesn't have a make art button. It's a rude and disrespectful assumption. Carodan, in particular, is one of the most talented "custom character" folks in the community!
carodan posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 3:55 PM
I think I misunderstood what fls13 was saying - wasn't expecting the 'I like FaceShop'.
I agree that Faceshop is supposed to make the process of custom character creation easier, but I'm saying it's just too bug-ridden (FS4 in standalone mode at least) to fulfill this role.
I know some effort has been made by the developer to cure the problems (I have the latest updated version), but IMO it's still far from functional.
It's not that I don't love the concept either - a fairly simple automation of the orthographic positioning of vertices to match frontal and profile images of a face, fantastic!. I even took the trouble of emailing Laslo about some ideas to improve the core funtionality (at the same time as urging him to get the bugs fixed).
P.S. Thanks Deecey - you're too kind. I've been a little out of the Poser game latety so I'm somewhat out of practice.
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fls13 posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 4:03 PM
Quote - The other issue is the textures. You can't get a decent result without a lot of effort.
Please, when people express dissatisfaction with a software program, don't automatically assume it's because the program doesn't have a make art button. It's a rude and disrespectful assumption. Carodan, in particular, is one of the most talented "custom character" folks in the community!
I could tell you how to get very good textures out of Face Shop with only a modest amount of extra effort but the solution is so simple and you're so talented, you can figure it out for yourself. Hint: it applies in the Poser face room as well. :O)
fls13 posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 4:35 PM
I'll offer this challenge to anyone who cares to accept it. We'll agree on a famous person, obviously someone from the modern age so we have color photographs to use for texturing. I'll use Face Shop and anyone else can use whatever other apps they chose and we'll see who comes up with the strongest likeness. I have confidence in the app and promise not to use any modeling program.
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 4:49 PM
Attached Link: FaceGen Celebs
I am not trying to make excuses, but I'm in the middle of installing a fresh install of Windows 7 and don't have any of my software installed yet. I say this lest I be accused of taking too long to make something for the challenge. But I venture to guess that I can have a reasonable likeness and texture done in FaceGen in about 5 minutes. But I'll also have to contact the program developers for an updated license key once I get everything reinstalled, so my ability to take up this challenge won't be immediate.In the meantime I'll see if I can find a thread that shows some of the other FaceGen faces that I worked up a while back ... stay tuned
link added
santicor posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 4:53 PM
i am with you fls13, as seen in my post -
so sorry- i am not your huckleberry on this one !
( not a challenger)
BTW - WHERE IS OBAMA!!!!
can't he show up here and unite us all???!!
Bring us all together ????
!!!
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
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lisarichie posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 5:13 PM
Sounds reasonable, hash out the details and I'm in.
To make the challenge more valid an unbiased 3rd party should select the person and provide the reference photos. This would eliminate variances in photo reference quality as a factor and ensure that participants had an equal start .
The results would also need to be posted anonymously in some way to eliminate the "popularity" factor from the judging so the decision would be based solely on the merits of the results.
drewradley posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 5:23 PM
email them to said unbiased 3rd party and let them post it so no one but them will know whose is whose.
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DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 5:26 PM
Due to the differences in the way FaceGen and FaceShop work, it would also be good to select a front and side photo in addition to a 3/4 view like FaceShop uses. FaceGen CAN use a 3/4 view shot as a front view, but it would be nice to have the option.
santicor posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 5:26 PM
what's the time limit - now I feel like getting into this.
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
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DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 5:27 PM
All done in FaceGen, and shown in FaceGen, with absolutely no retouching. Can you guess who they are? And they are all done with Victoria 4.
Now ... for the benefit of the original poster, I do have to add a disclaimer. The DAZ figures (or any other figure for that matter) do not "automatically" work in FaceGen. So this is not a solution that is equivalent to FaceShop at the present time (not sure of future versions that may come down the road). It took me about a month's worth of hard work to figure out how to get DAZ figures to work in FaceGen. Now that I have it figured out I can get any figure working in it in 2-5 days. And once the figures are working, it takes only a matter of minutes to generate a likeness like shown above.
So ... it's not a simple solution for Poser figures. However, I show these results because it does at least show the type of results that I would HOPE to see in other similar apps.
fls13 posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 5:34 PM
Quote - I am not trying to make excuses, but I'm in the middle of installing a fresh install of Windows 7 and don't have any of my software installed yet. I say this lest I be accused of taking too long to make something for the challenge. But I venture to guess that I can have a reasonable likeness and texture done in FaceGen in about 5 minutes. But I'll also have to contact the program developers for an updated license key once I get everything reinstalled, so my ability to take up this challenge won't be immediate.
In the meantime I'll see if I can find a thread that shows some of the other FaceGen faces that I worked up a while back ... stay tuned
link added
Facegen costs several hundred dollars doesn't it? Plus you have to use the included mesh so unless you make your own expression morphs, the face will be static. That's my understanding of it anyway. I have seen some amazing work done from it though . . . probably your's. :O)
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 5:37 PM
Nope, those are all V4 as I edited my post to reflect above. I typed too slow.
Yes, it is several hundred dollars. And the customizer, which is required to get the characters to work in the Modeler, is also about the same. But I couldn't pass on the results that you can get. And even the month figuring out how to get figures to work was a total blast.
Definitely no "make art" button to get it to work. But pretty darn close once you do!
fls13 posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 5:41 PM
Quote - OK I'll post the image directly, since it's too easy to miss the above link ...
All done in FaceGen, and shown in FaceGen, with absolutely no retouching. Can you guess who they are? And they are all done with Victoria 4.
Now ... for the benefit of the original poster, I do have to add a disclaimer. The DAZ figures (or any other figure for that matter) do not "automatically" work in FaceGen. So this is not a solution that is equivalent to FaceShop at the present time (not sure of future versions that may come down the road). It took me about a month's worth of hard work to figure out how to get DAZ figures to work in FaceGen. Now that I have it figured out I can get any figure working in it in 2-5 days. And once the figures are working, it takes only a matter of minutes to generate a likeness like shown above.
So ... it's not a simple solution for Poser figures. However, I show these results because it does at least show the type of results that I would HOPE to see in other similar apps.
I see Clooney, Presley, Zeta-Jones, Bette Davis (?). The others I don't recognize but I know Facegen is a good app so I assume I just don't know the subjects. I'll take on a Zeta-Jones FaceShop morph and let you all judge yourselves. If you say nice things, I might even share some simple tricks. ;O)
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 5:44 PM
Gillian Anderson (Scully), George Clooney, Elvis Presley, David Duchovny (Mulder), Catherine Zeta Jones, Bette Davis, Liv Tyler
The pics I had of Scully and Bette Davis weren't that great (hard to find one of Gillian Anderson when she has her mouth closed LOL); and I think I had the same problem with Liv Tyler as well.
carodan posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 6:22 PM
Since I feel I can't rely on FaceShop, I would be prepared to take up the challenge using more traditional methods (vertice manipulation). It would take me considerably longer however, and I can't even begin until next week now because of other commitments.
I like the idea of more of a comparison of approaches.
I'd also like to suggest one extra element to the challenge - the created character must be rendered in both textured AND untextured forms.
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DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 7:09 PM
Carodan ... I wish I had the patience to do morphed characters the way that you and Fygomatic do. I've tried (lord knows I've tried). I can work with front views and profiles, but as soon as I get into angled photos I lose all concept of what the form of the face is supposed to look like. LOL
Anyway I will admit that a large part of these "automatic" programs rely quite a bit on the generated texture to achieve the likenesses; without the textures you just get the general form of the face. However, what I usually do AFTER FaceGen is done with the morphs is use morph dials in V4 or M4 to refine the features.
I suspect the most superior results come with patience and dedication, as is pretty much true with everything we do. 8-)
fls13 posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 8:03 PM
carodan posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 8:10 PM
I think the thing that frustrated me the most about FaceShop with regard to the morphs (setting aside texture issues for now) was that the automation of taking key points from the front and profile views and mapping them onto the 3d model was so nearly there. I could see past the bugs (that made it impossible for me to actually get the final morph finished and back into Poser) and recognised that it would work - the FaceShop morph itself could have stood up to a fair degree of scrutiny without the texture.
I suggested to Laslo (apart from the crashing, file saving, mirror and obj export issues) that what FaceShop really needed IMO was to have a truly orthographic option, where the model was fixed in 3d space (it tends to rotate after the first set of points are added thus making further positioning of points very difficult ).
I think the concept of FaceShop has been built on the idea of using a single, half profile reference photo. This confused me for ages because Laslo had suggested that we'd get far more accurate results using the combination of front and profile references, but really as it is FaceShop doesn't work well with this method. I think the option to use a second profile image was really a bit of an afterthought, which is why it doesn't work so well (you can't move between Front and profile to tweak points without something messing up - at least for me). I'm fairly sure this is also why the mirror function often gives shonky results as far as the morph is concerned.
An option to give the model a reference texture in FaceShop (made by the user based on the uv mapping of head being used) with the reference points that are to be married to the corresponding points on the photos of the celeb, would also be of great benefit.
I would tend to approach the texture side of things without automation in any case. I never intended to use a FaceShop generated texture, except perhaps as a rough guide to building my own from the reference photos. It was always the morph that interested me primarily, since this plays such a pivotal role interacting with how the 3d lighting reveals the features in a render.
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DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 8:22 PM
I primarily use the FaceGen-generated textures as a guide as well, because I can't think of ANY "automatic" solution for creating high-quality suitable for closeup textures. The results shown above are great for characters used in a typical gallery-sized image, but if you want something that is production quality and suitable for closeups, you have to edit textures yourself anyway.
I think I said earlier that I really WANTED to like FaceShop. My biggest complaints are the same as yours, Carodan ... a front and two profile views not only result in superior textures, but they also go a long way toward a suitable morph as well. With 3.4 views, the software is just "guessing" on a lot of the detail.
The other nice feature found in FaceGen that is not found in FaceShop is that there are built-in morphs (much like in Poser's face room) where you can tweak the major features to achieve a closer face shape. But, like Poser's face room, they are there for GENERAL ethnicity, age, weight, etc. Still, they lend a fantastic start toward the character you are going for (as is shown in the above images, which are UNTOUCHED, and right after the photo fitting process without tweaking anything else. For more specfic facial features, like a round nose, or thin nostrils, or more subtle lip curves, you either morph yourself or use the built-in morphs on V4/M4. The more exact a likeness you want, the more work you have to put in. Regardless of what "automatic" method you choose.
Now ... would I be interested in FaceShop if it were beefed up a bit more? Yes. Would I be willing to pay more for it if it was beefed up to include some of the features that I would like to see enhanced or fixed? Yes ... but I would have to be 100% certain that the features were there and working to my liking first. Until then, I am wonderfully happy with FaceGen, in spite of the fact that it takes work to get figures working in there. 8-)
carodan posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 8:22 PM
OK, I can see that there's a Zeta-Jones resemblence there, but I'm not sure I'd have got it if I hadn't read your earlier post.
You managed to get a morph out, which is more than I've been able to do this evening.
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carodan posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 8:43 PM
Deecey, FaceGen does look to have quite some potential. Your earlier renders are pretty convincing, even if they do rely heavily on the textures. Morphs are so important though, for the lighting aspect.
I agree, I could still be tempted back to an updated FaceShop if it worked on the orthographic principles and the extra referencing features as I descibed above (it would have to 'work', mind you, and I'd have to be able to try before I buy this time).
I'm afraid I do have serious doubts as to whether this will happen though.
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carodan posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 9:16 PM
btw. Fygomatic's morphs are just amazing. Not sure I could do anything that good.
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DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 9:18 PM
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 10:35 PM
OK I have reinstalled FaceGen Modeller and Customizer, and am awaiting the authorization keys so that I can move on the challenge.
Michael Jackson?
Barack Obama?
George Bush?
Alan Alda (well maybe not, there aren't any good hi res pics of him anywhere! But it WOULD be funny seeing as it's a running forum joke) ...
Jessica Alba?
Alicia Keyes? (she's very pretty!)
Hillary Clinton?
Michelle Obama?
Sarah Palin?
Who, who, who?
Whatever ... PLEASE no Angelina. She has been done WAY too much!
Vestmann posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 10:49 PM
I agree with Angelina, she's old ;) My vote is for Rachel Weisz or Cate Blanchett...
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 10:51 PM
I LOVE Cate Blanchett, I think I found some good pics of her somewhere too. I'll see if I can hunt down the URLs
fls13 posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 10:53 PM
Quote - OK I have reinstalled FaceGen Modeller and Customizer, and am awaiting the authorization keys so that I can move on the challenge.
Michael Jackson?
Barack Obama?
George Bush?
Alan Alda (well maybe not, there aren't any good hi res pics of him anywhere! But it WOULD be funny seeing as it's a running forum joke) ...
Jessica Alba?
Alicia Keyes? (she's very pretty!)
Hillary Clinton?
Michelle Obama?
Sarah Palin?
Who, who, who?
Whatever ... PLEASE no Angelina. She has been done WAY too much!
I like the Alan Alda idea, but it seems he wears glasses a lot these days and that makes textures tricky. Whoever it is, there should be lots of good hi res pics available for the textures. I think women generally are tougher to get good likenesses on than men. Doesn't matter much to me otherwise.
Vestmann posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 10:55 PM
Here are a couple of hires images:
Don´t have a side image...
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 10:57 PM
Cate Blanchett:
Front: http://blog.pennlive.com/lehighvalley/2008/05/BLANCHETT8.jpg
Right 3/4 (not so flattering but at least gets the shape of her face) http://lh3.ggpht.com/_vWF-Hyac9B4/SKE3K646QUI/AAAAAAAABvU/dmHUlCu1yLU/cateblanchettoscar7.jpg
Right 3/4 in black and white, but much better for her facial features: http://media.photobucket.com/image/cate%20blanchett/MadameSherry/Cate%20Blanchett/SK-II%202008%20Campaign/skii08_002.jpg
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 10:58 PM
Oooh Vestmann, LOVE those!
She and Meryl Streep are my favorite actresses, because their performances are ALWAYS stellar.
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 11:02 PM
The two Cate Blanchett pics that Vestmann posted have very good even lighting, and the front view is marvelous, and the 3/4 view would probably also suffice as a side view in FaceShop.
Still open to other suggestions too, but I'm pretty gung ho on Cate Blanchett. 8-)
Vestmann posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 11:16 PM
Blanchett is in a league of her own and her look is very unique. I you decide on her I could probably dig up more images of her. Won't be until tomorrow though.
fls13 posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 11:18 PM
Quote - The two Cate Blanchett pics that Vestmann posted have very good even lighting, and the front view is marvelous, and the 3/4 view would probably also suffice as a side view in FaceShop.
Still open to other suggestions too, but I'm pretty gung ho on Cate Blanchett. 8-)
She's not the most recognizable actress and seldom looks the same twice. If I didn't have the name before looking at the pics posted, I'm not sure I would have known who she was.
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 11:27 PM
Attached Link: Blanchett as Elizabeth I
> Quote - Blanchett is in a league of her own and her look is very unique. I you decide on her I could probably dig up more images of her. Won't be until tomorrow though.Yeah, but the only problem I will have in doing her is I won't be able to stop with the morph. I'll add the long wavy hair and the DAZ Historical Armour for V4, and then put her on a white horse with a flowing cape to reproduce the scene from Elizabeth part II. LOL
'
Either that or the Galadriel woods scene from Lord of the Rings when she's at the cauldron.
Or this one ...
http://www.moviewallpapers.net/images/wallpapers/2007/the-golden-age/the-golden-age-2-1024.jpg
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, somebody stop me!
Vestmann posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 11:34 PM
Found a decent sideview...
"Yeah, but the only problem I will have in doing her is I won't be able to stop with the morph. I'll add the long wavy hair and the DAZ Historical Armour for V4, and then put her on a white horse with a flowing cape to reproduce the scene from Elizabeth part II. LOL"
Yeah I know what you mean hehe... I´m gonna call it a day. Looking forward to what you decide. May vote is still for Cate... ...or Wiesz ;) ...or Eva Green.
DCArt posted Thu, 22 October 2009 at 11:37 PM
Well if she doesn't get picked I will do her anyway. I've been wanting to do a pic with her for a long time. The armour and all. 8-) And I JUST got exactly the right hair for it, with that image in mind.
Vestmann posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 3:16 AM
Deecey, here are some more of Cate. These should be good for texture detail.
Blanchett 1
Blanchett 2
Blanchett 3
Blanchett 4
Blanchett 5
I´m thinking about having a go at her myself. I'll probably use FaceShop & Argile.
But we need more suggestions for the little challenge. Are people okay with Cate or is someone else more suitable?
santicor posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 5:48 AM
Vestmann your links don't work for me.
CHECK OUT this site it is the best source for celeb model references:
http://usemycomputer.com/indeximages/women/
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
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Vestmann posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 6:09 AM
Quote - Vestmann your links don't work for me.
CHECK OUT this site it is the best source for celeb model references:
My first link doesn´t seem to work but the others are fine.
Thanks for the link. I´m not if it's the best source though but it is good.
I´m registered to this site:
http://celebutopia.net/forum/
It has tons of images added every day
This one is also okay:
http://www.vettri.net/index.html
DCArt posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 8:17 AM
Quote - Deecey, here are some more of Cate. These should be good for texture detail.
Blanchett 1
Blanchett 2
Blanchett 3
Blanchett 4
Blanchett 5I´m thinking about having a go at her myself. I'll probably use FaceShop & Argile.
But we need more suggestions for the little challenge. Are people okay with Cate or is someone else more suitable?
Unable to get any of these either.
DCArt posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 9:02 AM
OK I do have my authorization key as of this morning and took a first stab at the front photo and the good left profile photo from the previous links.
After a couple of minutes in FaceGen I have a pretty decent likeness ... I'd be glad to post it once we decide whether or not we are doing Cate.
However ... while it's recognizeable as Cate, I'd still probably do more. As Carodan and I were discussing earlier, these automatic face programs are great for a start, but they don't allow for the VERY fine detailed shapes around mouth, eyes, nose, etc that you would need to get a perfectly exact likeness. Comparing the "automatic" morph to the photos side by side, I see areas in shape of the nostrils, lips, and cheeks that I'd like to refine further, even though the original state of the morph is recognizeable as Cate I'd like to take it even further, either by using V4's built-in morphs or by taking it into Mudbox. These are types of detailed tweaks that neither FaceGen or FaceShop address and they would have to be done if either program was being used at the start.
So what I may do is show the results in stages.
DCArt posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 9:03 AM
Quote - hmmm... That's odd.
Does this one work?
(link removed)
Oops, not liking that link. Got uber pop ups to sites that I don't want to go anywhere near. Might want to remove the link 8-)
AbaloneLLC posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 9:13 AM
Attached Link: http://abalonellc.com/faceshop-pro.html
**
I disagree with that last statement. FaceShop 4.0 has a morphBrush and a TextureBrush.
MorphBrush allows you to tweak any shape, TextureBrush allows you to tweak any texture.
Laslo**
DCArt posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 9:20 AM
Vestmann posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 9:34 AM
Okay, I´m giving up on the links :) People can find hires images right?
I´m thinking about skipping the aggravation of using FaceShop and doing the morph using V4's ++Morphs and the Ultra Head morphs from RDNA then refining it in Argile. It will be interesting to see how close I can get that way.
AbaloneLLC posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 9:51 AM
Attached Link: http://abalonellc.com/faceshop-pro.html
Not to argue your point but:
Vestmann posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 10:06 AM
Don´t get we wrong Laslo. I bought FaceShop Pro and haven't upgraded since and personally I find the upgrade charges too high. I really like the potential FaceShop Pro has and I have got some results with it but I´m not ready to pay more for some extra features at the moment.
I have a lot of morphs for V4 and I thought it would be interesting to see how far I could go without FaceShop compared to those who are using FS or FaceGen. That's all.
DCArt posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 10:13 AM
Laslo ... I think FaceShop has a LOT of potential, which is one of the reasons I tried to like it. I like that it can use any figure, but my main area of disappointment is the resulting morph.
After you said that FaceShop 4 had a morph brush, I went to look at the videos. I see a lot of changes have been added since I stopped using FaceShop, which is good! It's heading in the right direction.
Now ... the application goes a long way in TRYING to achieve the proper face shape. And with the addition of the morph brush that's a good thing too. BUT ... and this is a really big BUT ... in the end, once the morph is in DAZ Studio or Poser, the user is advised to dial the morphs back down to somewhere between .5 and .7.
Yes, dialing it back does improve the appearance of the MORPH, but it also defeats the purpose of using the morph brush to add all that fine detail. What happens as a result is that you are dialing OUT all of the character detail that you wanted to add IN, and the result becomes a blend of the figure you wanted, and the default character.
FaceShop is getting CLOSER, but it would be so much better if the morph was useable at a setting of 1. Otherwise, the morphing feature in FaceShop doesn't accomplish what I'd like to see it accomplish.
I say this with a great amount of respect for the product in hopes that it might one day become something that I would consider upgrading again. 8-)
AbaloneLLC posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 10:32 AM
Quote - Laslo ... I think FaceShop has a LOT of potential, which is one of the reasons I tried to like it. I like that it can use any figure, but my main area of disappointment is the resulting morph.
After you said that FaceShop 4 had a morph brush, I went to look at the videos. I see a lot of changes have been added since I stopped using FaceShop, which is good! It's heading in the right direction.
Now ... the application goes a long way in TRYING to achieve the proper face shape. And with the addition of the morph brush that's a good thing too. BUT ... and this is a really big BUT ... in the end, once the morph is in DAZ Studio or Poser, the user is advised to dial the morphs back down to somewhere between .5 and .7.
Yes, dialing it back does improve the appearance of the MORPH, but it also defeats the purpose of using the morph brush to add all that fine detail. What happens as a result is that you are dialing OUT all of the character detail that you wanted to add IN, and the result becomes a blend of the figure you wanted, and the default character.
FaceShop is getting CLOSER, but it would be so much better if the morph was useable at a setting of 1. Otherwise, the morphing feature in FaceShop doesn't accomplish what I'd like to see it accomplish.
I say this with a great amount of respect for the product in hopes that it might one day become something that I would consider upgrading again. 8-)
Deecey,
As you know, I like and respect your work a lot. There are some technical reasons for recommending a dial back (of course you can use 100% of the morph if you wish).
With our new, upcoming FaceAge (http://abalonellc.com/faceage-10.html) that debuts next week here at Rendo, we recommend a "mix and match" of several morphs to achive optimal results.
DCArt posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 1:40 PM
Here's the results that I got after about five minutes in FaceGen (half of that being the photo fit calculations, the other half setting the points and adjusting a couple of dials for the shape of the nose).
Now ... these are as they appear in FaceGen. What I normally do after this is bring the morph into Poser and then use Victoria's face morphs to fine-tune the facial features. And I would definitely work on the shape of the nose/nostrils, chin, and mouth with the dials. And maybe the cheekc a tad. Either that, or I'd take it into a morphing program.
But that is largely because I'm really picky. LOL Even the default morph is quite recognizable as Cate Blanchett (to me, anyway).
My gallery shows a lot of images where I use the word "UnVicky." Now you know what I use to "unVicky Vicky." If you didn't know this was V4 when looking at the textured versions, would you suspect that it was?
Vestmann posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 2:15 PM
This is looking good. Just a few adjustments, like you say, to the nose/nostrils. Looking forward to seeing her fully textured from Poser.
santicor posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 2:18 PM
Deecey that blows away 1 hour of work that I did in W3D and ,mostly Poser face room and Poser morph brush -
to top it all off, morph brush as usual, crashed Poser on me and I didn't even get so much as a screen shot of my hour's work.
Face gen sure appears to be an awesome tool.
I am starting over
frequent savefile this time .....
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
santicor posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 2:20 PM
Yeah she has a very unique nose the nostril openings are like a complete donut, the nostril wall doesn't terminate perpendicular to her face surface.
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
carodan posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 2:20 PM
Deecey - thanks for posting the untextured version from FaceGen. It's not such a bad starting morph - as you say, with some tweaking it'd be rather good. So what is the workflow inside FaceGen (assuming we already have the model inside)?
Quote -
There are some technical reasons for recommending a dial back (of course you can use 100% of the morph if you wish).
Laslo - it'd be useful if you could actually state some of these 'technical reasons' rather than being so vague all the time. I suggest these reasons are really to do with some of the things that are 'technically' wrong with FaceShop, but then I suppose this is open to debate.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
fls13 posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 2:24 PM
Quote - OK ... since there hasn't been any more input on the challenge I just thought I'd post my initial results in FaceGen that I did earlier.
Here's the results that I got after about five minutes in FaceGen (half of that being the photo fit calculations, the other half setting the points and adjusting a couple of dials for the shape of the nose).
Now ... these are as they appear in FaceGen. What I normally do after this is bring the morph into Poser and then use Victoria's face morphs to fine-tune the facial features. And I would definitely work on the shape of the nose/nostrils, chin, and mouth with the dials. And maybe the cheekc a tad. Either that, or I'd take it into a morphing program.
But that is largely because I'm really picky. LOL Even the default morph is quite recognizable as Cate Blanchett (to me, anyway).
My gallery shows a lot of images where I use the word "UnVicky." Now you know what I use to "unVicky Vicky." If you didn't know this was V4 when looking at the textured versions, would you suspect that it was?
Facegen is terrific, no question. The only thing that really needs a fix is the jaw width and that's usually a native morph in most heads anyway. I'll take a shot at Cate in Face Shop just for the hell of it. I'd say a patient effort takes about 20 minutes rather than 5.
santicor posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 2:26 PM
I am trying to understand -
Face gen modeler vs face gen customizer -
are they 2 different aps?
must you have customizer to be able to use any figure's head that you wish?
______________________
"When you have to shoot ...
SHOOT.
Don't talk "
- Tuco
Santicor's Gallery:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=580115
AbaloneLLC posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 2:28 PM
Quote - Deecey - thanks for posting the untextured version from FaceGen. It's not such a bad starting morph - as you say, with some tweaking it'd be rather good. So what is the workflow inside FaceGen (assuming we already have the model inside)?
Quote -
There are some technical reasons for recommending a dial back (of course you can use 100% of the morph if you wish).Laslo - it'd be useful if you could actually state some of these 'technical reasons' rather than being so vague all the time. I suggest these reasons are really to do with some of the things that are 'technically' wrong with FaceShop, but then I suppose this is open to debate.
An honest answer to an honest question:
While there's nothing "technically wrong" with FaceShop, it uses a very different workflow from FaceGen. In Facegen, the system finds a likely match for a picture from 200 or so meshes. This works well on average heads, not so well with older or very different ones (think Winston Churchill).
FaceShop relais on tracing outlines of features. Depending on how many points you put down or how carefuly, your result my be great or may be rough.
Not going full 100% on the dial eliminates some roughness.
If you go the long route (zoom in, folow outlines, put down plenty of points), the dial back may not be necessary at all.
I hope this answers your question.
Laslo
momodot posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 2:28 PM
Does FaceGen import/export standard V4 mesh? Is the result a morph for V4 or a prop mesh?
DCArt posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 2:38 PM
The FaceGen Customizer is used to make a set of data that you can use to make a model compatible with FaceGen Modeler.
As I said earlier, the whole process took me about a month to figure out, and I even posted a tutorial that is on FaceGen's site. However, it's not for the squeamish, it's quite a tedious process. You have to morph the facial features of your model (say, V4) to fit the shape of their "mean face", and if it's off the morph and texture don't work quite right.
Just the calculations to transfer the model into a FaceGen compatible format take 10-20 hours, depending on the speed of your processor. What I usually did was set it up and let it run overnight. It takes about 8-10 hours on a Dual or quad core. If you don't get the face shape quite right, you only do PART of the setup process over again to tweak it. You don't have to go through the 8-10 hours of calculations again, it's more like 1 or 2.
Anyway, when you bring this "magic data stuff" into FaceGen Modeler, there are actually two underlying sets of data to work with, largely because of V4's overlapping UVs. There is one set of model data to use when you create the texture (because of all the different material uvs and how some of them overlap, so the geometry has to be broken apart accordingly to compensate for the overlapping UVs), and another set of model data to export the morph (which basically will be an UNTEXTURED head, neck, eyebrows, eyes, and teeth all welded together).
After generating the texture and OBJ in FaceGen, I export the texture and the morph. I then take the welded OBJ (face, head, eyes, etc) into Poser and open the Group Editor. Then from that, I spawn the individual morph targets, export each one out individually, and reimport onto V4 as morph targets. The result is a morph that CAN WORK with Mimic and the existing morph targets.
Now ... like I said earlier, making the models compatible with FaceGen isn't an easy process. I DO already have Michael 4 and Victoria 4 working in FaceGen. I COULD ask DAZ about distributing it, but I wouldn't be able to do that WITHOUT their blessing because the head geometry is copyrighted by them. A lot of people have contacted me after attempting to do the conversions themselves, and I wish there was an easier way to help right now! LOL
As for the workflow INSIDE FaceGen? I should do a video one of these days. LOL But time has been precious lately. I'll see what I can do.
-- place 11 markers on the front view
-- refine 11 markers on closeup of front view
-- and for each side photo you pick (can have two) ... place and refine 9 markers
-- click a button and watch FaceGen calculate and morph the face while superimposing the texture. It's hypnotizing. LOL
carodan posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 2:51 PM
Laslo - Ok, your explanation goes part way I think. I accept the thing about accuracy and quantity of placed points.
One of the things I pointed out earlier was to do with the system of plotting those points in both a front and a profile view. FaceShop4 has this option, but there seem to me to be issues with how this method is technically applied.
Firstly, after the initial points are placed in the front view and applied, FaceShop appears to slightly rotate the head model. I've tried this workflow dozens of times, zooming in very closely, but the rotation always takes place. The rotation makes the second round of placing points very difficult because it becomes less feasible to judge accurately where the points need to be placed.
Second, although you do have the option to load a profile image and plot points, you have to manually rotate and scale the head model in a non-orthographic space. This is very important as it effectively means (if the rotation is off by merely a fraction) that the translations can easily become skewed, resulting in a 'twisting' motion when the morph is applied in Poser. This has nothing to do with the accuracy of the points placed, but is IMO a funtional deficiency of the app itself.
You also need to be able to move from profile to front views to tweak the positioning of points, and in my experience FaceShop just doesn't permit this, either corrupting the morph or crashing entirely. This is what I refer to as the bugginess of FaceShop. Even if the core concept worked, the software doesn't permit you to sucessfully complete the process.
I suggested earlier that in my view FaceShop was probably concieved to work based on the idea of using a single, semi-profile reference photo, and that the option to use a second profile reference has been somewhat unsuccessfully added to this in later versions.
Is this the case?
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
DCArt posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 3:01 PM
I will concur with some of what Laslo says ... part of that 10-20 hours of calculations that the Customizer does is converting the morph data from the model's head (ie: V4) to match those built-in face shapes that he's talking about. That's what the whole Customizer process is about.
(And see, this is turning out to be a good discussion!!!)
AbaloneLLC posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 3:04 PM
Carodan,
Very insightful.
Indeed, the step where you combine front and profile makes it more difficult in many instances.
Fortunately, there's a workaround:
Do two separate morphs (on front and one profile) and blend the in either Studio or Poser.
This is what we recommend with the new FaceAge program.
(Obviously there are still texture issues to smooth, etc. but that is not that hard for an average Photoshop user).
Laslo
fls13 posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 4:21 PM
Actually a separate pass for texture and morph, not necessarily using the same ref picture is a good approach as well.
As a suggestion Laslo, I think you need to build a bit of an online community of the silent majority of satisfied customers with samples of work, perhaps with a blog somewhere. People who are unhappy always make the most noise.
This is a quick and dirty job, one pass same pic for morph and texture:
carodan posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 4:27 PM
But how do you suggest dealing with the rotation issue and non-orthographic camera views?
I was just looking at the FaceAge page. I suspect there will be similar issues with accurately positioning points because you are not dealing with fixed views.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
DCArt posted Fri, 23 October 2009 at 9:04 PM
Hair is Mon Chevalier hair from DAZ, which suits her well. Eyes are from one of the many textures I have for V4 ... I forget which one! LOL
Now ... I'll probably keep working with this and evolving it over time, as I am still not happy with the nose and eye shapes. Haven't started with custom morphs yet, that is usually my next step.
shorterbus posted Sat, 24 October 2009 at 11:17 AM
Deecey, I went to your gallery. Lassie was the closest likeness...
Just kidding. Actually, I was impressed, especially with Scarlett.
DCArt posted Sat, 24 October 2009 at 11:30 AM
momodot posted Sat, 24 October 2009 at 11:55 AM
Deecy, can't afford FaceGen and Costomizer but why can't you just share your V4 head set-up just as a morph to the V4 head?
DCArt posted Sat, 24 October 2009 at 12:28 PM
As you can see from the Cate morph above (the one of the FaceGen views and untextured version), there are some issues under the jaw that don't have a smooth transition. That's not FaceGen's fault, that is some additional touchup that I'd have to do on the morph. So it's not quite ready for "prime time." I don't mind smoothing it out as needed for the pics I do, but if I do release it in one form or another I'd want it to be perfect.
So that would mean back to the drawing board one more time, and I'll have to add it to the list of projects. 8-)
Hallowed_Sylph posted Sun, 25 October 2009 at 6:44 PM
I have tried faceshop but I must say I have never found it a worthwhile tool . It is buggy and it does not work half as well as they make it seem . I quickly ditched and began learning custom morphing in zbrush which is a blast and Ihave to say I prefer it now !
momodot posted Sun, 25 October 2009 at 7:08 PM
Hey Laslo. Do you have an update of tips&tricks for FaceShop. Best practice etc. More reference points, less points, circle the eyes, etc. To be honest I was getting good results at the start but my accuracy has gone down not up... I am getting crumpled deformed mesh now but I can not ascertain what bad habits I have fallen into to cause it. For those of us struggling with the app it would be great if you could induce who ever it is doing best with it to share their experience and knowledge.
AbaloneLLC posted Sun, 25 October 2009 at 7:11 PM
Quote - Hey Laslo. Do you have an update of tips&tricks for FaceShop. Best practice etc. More reference points, less points, circle the eyes, etc. To be honest I was getting good results at the start but my accuracy has gone down not up... I am getting crumpled deformed mesh now but I can not ascertain what bad habits I have fallen into to cause it. For those of us struggling with the app it would be great if you could induce who ever it is doing best with it to share their experience and knowledge.
We should be able to update "tricks and Tips" for the upcoming FaceShop 5.0 (late November).
My take is that the more detailed line you draw, the better the results.
I have also learned that if I have two photos (front and profile), I will try to make two separate morphs and then "mix and match" in either Studio or Poser.
Laslo
AbaloneLLC posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 11:56 AM
AbaloneLLC posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 11:58 AM
AbaloneLLC posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 11:58 AM
momodot posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 12:40 PM
Thanks. I have been ending the lines abruptly. I have found in general I am suffering worse results the more points I use... that is why I asked.
BTW.
Not that I can afford it these days --inexpensive upgrade planned? I would sure love to Beta test for a free copy!-- but if Face Shop Pro 5 is still in development... maybe to build in X and Y axis scaling? I notice that as an issue in my work with FSP. Also could it be possible take morphs internally too? It would be nice to use the built-in default V4 head and add the smile or open mouth in FSP rather than setting up an exported V4 morphed head from Poser. I like the shorter work flow of using the default V4 head to an imported head... or else an option to template up imported heads like "Smiling V4" that are to be used over and over so they don't need the extended work flow.
Anthanasius posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 12:57 PM
It's well to say that, but why so late !
Since i buy it, it sleep in a dark place of my hd ...
Génération mobiles Le Forum / Le Site
AbaloneLLC posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 3:55 PM
Quote - It's well to say that, but why so late !
Since i buy it, it sleep in a dark place of my hd ...
Maybe wake him up?
Could be fun.....
Laslo
Jeff_Kraschinski posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 1:44 AM
I'd love to see it work in Vista or Windows 7 without graphical corruption, and maybe a tool to rotate the head after the program has done it's initial positioning.
Sometimes the reference photo can make it hard to get a good match on head angle and such (usually women more than men due to longer hair covering up more of the head itself) and the ability to refine the position before you add more points to create the morph would be VERY helpful.
momodot posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 3:35 AM
That is true... I have always wondered if it wouldn't go better if I could set up the head angle directly... a simple mater in terms of where the nose tip and ears are relative the cheeks. etc or maybe as an outline display you orient right over the reference picture.
AbaloneLLC posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 2:09 PM
Momodot,
You are right on target. This is one of the things we are doing for FS 5.0.
Laslo
lisarichie posted Wed, 28 October 2009 at 11:20 AM
Ah stability....return from a stay in the hospital and things are exactly as they were.....the claims are made for the program but the results don't reflect the claims, a challenge was made and accepted by several but fizzled when some structure was requested to make it an actual viable challenge, all things program related are explained away as user error but the next release will fix all the "issues", and on and on and on....SSDD
Ya know Laslo, as a person you make a real good politician so why not drop the snake oil you're selling and go where the real money trough is, gov't.:lol:
AbaloneLLC posted Wed, 28 October 2009 at 11:40 AM
**lisarichie
It pains me that you mistake me for a politician. I am a software developer and has been for 20 some years. We are trying to develop a good solution for a needed product. As the former Marketing Director for Poser, I noticed how poorly Poser's FaceRoom performs. Hence came the idea in 2006 to develop a system that:
lisarichie posted Wed, 28 October 2009 at 3:36 PM
Oh I don't mistake you for a politician I just believe you would be more successful at politics than software development..... :lol:
But anyway neither of us is going to budge on the issues...You indicate repeatedly that there are no issues in one breath then in the next claim the forthcoming upgrade will fix the problems and me, until you deliver a piece of software that works as claimed, I will continue to maintain my stance.
However due to the insinuation you made in an open forum regarding a serial # when attempting to upgrade to FS 3.5, I won't ever be one of your customers again....you make it personal, I take it personal. Though, should you ever produce a viable version of the software, I will extend the courtesy of refraining to tell others to avoid you and your products.
Cheer up, way things are looking you'll probably win by default without having to provide the product in good working order.
Jeff_Kraschinski posted Wed, 28 October 2009 at 4:13 PM
Quote -
Momodot,
You are right on target. This is one of the things we are doing for FS 5.0.
Laslo
THAT will be something to see.
Now I'm eagerly awaiting version 5.0. You just made my day.
Have you managed to solve the graphical corruption issues in Vista and presumably Win7?
Were that the case, you'd make my whole week.
Sprryte posted Sun, 08 November 2009 at 1:17 AM
i've been trying to stay tuned to this thread. I have never used face gen, but i spent a lot of time working on and trying Face Shop. everything was great until i imported it back into poser and had to dial the dials back, -- THEN my morph completely disappeared and i was back to the default look - all that time spent trying to get away from it - only to have it right back again =(
i've never tried FaceGen - i'd like to but it is out of my pocketbook range right now. I'd like to hear about other pples experience with it - if anyone would care to share their experiences? Also, are there other aps out there which actually give good results?
thanks everyone
flibbits posted Sun, 08 November 2009 at 11:52 AM
As long as you're willing to create a texture in another program and create a character morph in another program, faceshop works well in creating textures and character morphs.
geoff101 posted Tue, 17 November 2009 at 5:07 PM
I've been on both sides of this fence, started with 3.1 and XP, no problems. 3.5 under Vista wouldn't work, crashed all the time. Windows 7 and everything works as advertised but I haven't really played with the morph or texture brushes..
rtamesis posted Wed, 24 February 2010 at 2:53 AM
Faceshop 5 for the Mac is very buggy and crashes a lot. It's as if it hasn't been really tested thoroughly prior to release. I keep getting the following:
Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS)
Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x0000000000000008
Vestmann posted Wed, 24 February 2010 at 9:57 AM
Quote - Faceshop 5 for the Mac is very buggy and crashes a lot. It's as if it hasn't been really tested thoroughly prior to release.
Why am I not surprised...?
rtamesis posted Wed, 24 February 2010 at 8:41 PM
I just finished trying the free version of FaceGen. it is everything that Faceshop is not: polished, bug free, easy and fun to use. Its biggest disadvantage is that it is difficult to integrate it with Poser, but if the company that makes comes through with their promise of releasing a version that works well with Poser later this year, then I will be definitely getting that instead of stickling with Faceshop.
momodot posted Wed, 24 February 2010 at 9:25 PM
Problem with Face Gen is those terrible ears and too few nostril morphs... you can export the head with all expression morphs though to use on as a parented prop on a Poser figure if you are willing to hide or post work the neck. Maybe could make a transmap to just use the face as a mask on a Poser head?
rtamesis posted Wed, 24 February 2010 at 9:33 PM
I would just wait for them to deliver on their promise of releasing an app that plays nice with Poser in the summer of this year.
http://www.facegen.com/customizer_tutorial.htm
DCArt posted Thu, 25 February 2010 at 1:22 PM
IsaoShi posted Sat, 27 February 2010 at 8:43 AM
Quote - It's threads like this that make me realize that Poser people just want a "Make Art" button. Pathetic really . . . . :O)
It's ridiculous generalisations like this that make me realise just how self-centred and blind to others' experiences and views some people can be. Pathetic really.... :O)
Well, here is another lazy, whining moron who can't be bothered to lift a finger or turn a tutorial page and has had such big problems with the stability and usefulness of this software that I no longer want anything to do with it.
Good luck with your challenge, but don't make the mistake of believing that it will prove you right.
"If I were a shadow, I know I wouldn't like to be half of
what I should be."
Mr Otsuka, the old black tomcat in Kafka on the Shore (Haruki
Murakami)
carodan posted Sat, 27 February 2010 at 10:22 AM
Quote - Faceshop 4, one pass, no alteration of the texture. Dial morph at 1.000, no other dials turned. Not perfect but close.
Mmm, you and I must have a different perception of 'close'. What you seem to have here is a photo of an actress mapped onto a virtually unmorphed V4 (at least, I don't see much of a morph in use here - maybe the lighting isn't helping). I can achieve this in two minutes using Photoshop to position the photo over the V4 templates.
Not a great example really.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
Vestmann posted Sat, 27 February 2010 at 10:48 AM
Quote - > Quote - Faceshop 4, one pass, no alteration of the texture. Dial morph at 1.000, no other dials turned. Not perfect but close.
Mmm, you and I must have a different perception of 'close'. What you seem to have here is a photo of an actress mapped onto a virtually unmorphed V4 (at least, I don't see much of a morph in use here - maybe the lighting isn't helping). I can achieve this in two minutes using Photoshop to position the photo over the V4 templates.
Not a great example really.
I was gonna say the same thing...
carodan posted Sat, 27 February 2010 at 10:53 AM
Quote -
**
Why are there no perfect solutions? Because the premise - to make a solid 3D head based on a photograph - is very difficult.**
Laslo, this premise is more than difficult (in the way FS works) - it's actually impossible.
In truth, I'm not sure it is really possible to create such a morph from just one photo - not without some VERY clever analysis of cast shadows (which arn't always present in photos) and cross-reference with hundreds (if not thousands) of pre sampled 3d heads in order to assess a 'best guess' on averaged results. I'm pretty sure FS isn't doing either of these.
That's how I understand it anyway.
I think you should more clearly reflect this in the FS marketing, and (as I've communicated directly to you before) strive to improve the core functionality of the app to work efficiently with Front and Profile images in an orthographic space.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
DCArt posted Sat, 27 February 2010 at 11:01 AM
cross-reference with hundreds (if not thousands) of pre sampled 3d heads <<<
I am not a programmer, nor do I have any insight into how FaceGen works other than that as a user. But it's my understanding that the "Mean Face" in FaceGen serves exactly that purpose. The mean face appears to be a neutral starting point that can accomodate various traits such as age and ethnicity.
I'm not sure how the new version will work, whether or not it will use a similar approach. Being that the link on the FaceGen site says that the integration will be easier, I'm really really excited about what might be coming!
carodan posted Sat, 27 February 2010 at 11:04 AM
I just wish FaceGen wasn't quite so expensive - having to buy two costly apps becomes prohibitive.
In fairness though, it's probably worth the price.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
rtamesis posted Tue, 02 March 2010 at 12:54 AM
According to their website, FaceGen is licensed by a number of gaming companies as well as used by different universities for research, which could partly explain the price.
http://www.facegen.com/about.htm
1brightboy posted Wed, 27 September 2017 at 9:26 PM
I am using an older version of Faceshop ( Faceshop 6 ) because it works on my Mac. I created a head for Michael 4, so I ended up with an Obj file and the Bmp file ( which i edited in Photoshop). I am using Poser Pro 2012 and I am wondering in what directories I put the two files or what extra steps i need to take to get the new head on a Michael 4 in poser? I don't use Daz studio as it never recognizes my Micheal or Victoria models and I would like to only ise poser if possible. I looked through the tiny read me file that came with Faceshop 6 an watched the video but it ends without explaining what to do with the the two files. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
qaz posted Thu, 28 September 2017 at 1:02 PM
Faceshop doesnt work well and I stopped using many years ago. From memory - go to M4 character select head and click on properties. Click on load morph target and search for the object file you have. Select OK. Then go back to parameters and find morph at the bottom of the list. Dial it up to about 0.8. If it is a decent morph that should be 1. It wont be. Next click on material tab, select face and find the image connected to the diffuse channel. Click on browse and look for the bmp file. (If you have photoshop id convert it to a jpeg to save memory but should work with BMP. Render - done
