I did some tests and found that dynamic hair render much much faster with IDL than transmapped hair! Also, it's much faster than with previous Poser version, and the outcome is highly better.

In the render here, the hair shader is perhaps a little 'off' but i quite like the result :)

I don't know though how the hair node is treated in the IDL calculation...

a fantastic render. how long was the render time?

Would it be possible for you post your render settings?
I am totally overwhelmed by Idl but this is an outstanding render.
cheerio
lululee

Very nice looking hair. I tried many times to do dynamic hair but I guess I'm not a coiffeur.
Can dynamic hair be saved in library for reuse? is it a prop or something else?

Dynamic hair can be styled without the figure and saved as a new library item for use later.

Poser 8 IDL was specially optimized for dynamic hair, according to Stefan. It is way faster than it used to be, even with IDL, and way faster than transmapped hair.

I, too, find it impossible to style it, but I imagine it's a skill one can develop, just like using any other tool.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

If only there were some good short hair styles for men. I'm so utterly sick of mesh based hairs that don't fit properly, only look passable under optimal lighting conditions and camera angles, take ages to render...

I didn't find any dynamic hair products in the store, I guess because it was very hard to work with and very slow until now. Maybe now with P8 people will start to share and sell dynamic hair. I sometimes clothify transmapped hair to make it move in animations, but it rarely looks real because hair doesn't move like cloth.

If one know where I can find ready made styled dynamic hair ... I would love to play with it.

Yariv

This render took 18min 41s with the above settings. I guess it could be lowered a bit :)

The hair shown here is one of the dynamic hair that come with P6 Jessi.
The best way to use dynamic hair is to grow them on a skullcap and save that skullcap with hair in the hair folder.

Yarivt, you'll find some great dynamic hair in the freestuff section. Most of them are from adorana.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/search.php?section_id=-1&query=dynamic+hair&sort=relevancy&use_age=no&older_age=&older_units=day&newer_age=&newer_units=day&username=
There are some also in the RDNA store.

Quote - Dynamic hair can be styled without the figure and saved as a new library item for use later.

Poser 8 IDL was specially optimized for dynamic hair, according to Stefan. It is way faster than it used to be, even with IDL, and way faster than transmapped hair.

I, too, find it impossible to style it, but I imagine it's a skill one can develop, just like using any other tool.

BB, i didn't know IDL was optimized for dyn hair, it should have been advertised as the results are simply wonderful! It means that now dynamic hair is usable in Poser ;)
Have you ever looked at the hair node? what do you think of it?

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Adorana has a lot of dynamic hair in the freestuff area for V3, with a little modification you can also use them for V4, If you visit her website she also hair for M3 and a whole set of material preset for all kinds of haircolors. She is one of my favourites.

You can find her website here:

www.adorana.de/index.php

best regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

Actually there is dynamic hair at Renderosity.

Dixie Dynamic Hair,V4,A4,A3,Miki2,Laura, ETC.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=66228&keyword=dynamic&list=title

There is a Dynamic Hair catagory in the Free Stuff section here at Renderosity.

At Content Paradise ther is a Dynamic Hair Shaders product to color dynamic hair.
http://www.contentparadise.com/productDetails.aspx?id=2946

From RDMA, DNA P5 Pre-Raphaelite Hair,
http://www.runtimedna.com/DNA-P5-Pre-Raphaelite-Hair.html

DNA P5 Analinde Dynamic Hair for Victoria,
http://www.runtimedna.com/DNA-P5-Analinde-Dynamic-Hair-for-Victoria.html

DNA P5 Naughty Nikki Hair For Victoria,
http://www.runtimedna.com/DNA-P5-Naughty-Nikki-Hair-For-Victoria.html

DNA P5 Dynamic Hair Mega Pack,
http://www.runtimedna.com/DNA-P5-Dynamic-Hair-Mega-Pack.html

DNA P5 Fashion Hair for V2/V3,
http://www.runtimedna.com/DNA-P5-Fashion-Hair-for-V2-V3.html

DNA P5 Razor Hair for V2/V3,
http://www.runtimedna.com/DNA-P5-Razor-Hair-for-V2-V3.html

DNA P5 Romantic Hair for V2/V3,
http://www.runtimedna.com/DNA-P5-Romantic-Hair-for-V2-V3.html

Art Of Aesia vol6 A - Sexy Outfit,
http://www.runtimedna.com/Art-Of-Aesia-vol6-A-Sexy-Outfit.html

And for men, DNA P5 Dynamic Wizard Hair and Beard,
http://www.runtimedna.com/DNA-P5-Dynamic-Wizard-Hair-and-Beard.html

I may have missed some at these sites. Maybe, with encouragement, someone will put the effort into making some more dynamic hair.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

KaiZ also has some dynamic hair, although he withdraw some of his products, perhaps he can be convinced to sell them again because they looked rather good.
I hope this new features on poser 8 will encourage a lot of hair stylist to make more dynamic hair.

regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

This is Adorana's Shena hair that I restyled some weeks ago for a chararcter I'm working on. It took me about 14 minutes to render.

regards,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

Thanks so much for all of the great info. I really appreciate it.
cheerio
lululee

Thanks for the heads up on dynamic hair. I hadn't read anything about it being faster - nice little surprise.

Kinda funny. I've been thinking about dynamics a lot lately. I had never seen any really good renders, to be honest. But Vince, that image looks amazing. More realistic than any transmapped hair I've seen, I'd say.

I've had Dixie hair on my wishlist, precisely because I wanna play with something that already gives me a starting point before getting carried away creating my own, because I'm sure it would be very time-consuming.

Very good to hear P8 is better optimized for dynamics. That's a really nice hair render for that amount of time.

______________

Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

you used 12 bounces for IDL? i wonder if it would still look good with 3 bounces?

I'm not sure if setting more IDL bounces adds that much to render time, so i prefer to keep it high :)

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with 12 it takes a lot longer.

Ooch! So i guess lowering it is not big trouble, except if you have a very complicated scene :)

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you could be right.

If hair is dynamic then it shouldn't be a problem to adjust it to other characters, right?
It sounds like only the skullcap need to be adjusted...

Yarivt

styling the hair in poser is very hard for me. i watched the tutorials and they are good but i would need more practice.

Here is another example using one of the P6 James strand hair resized to fit M4. I doubled the number of hair as we could see his head through it. The same render settings except that i lowered the IDL bounces to 3. Render time: 15min 20s. I noticed the render is faster if you make the skullcap invisible :)

To adapt hair from other figures, you need to translate and scale the skullcap to your need.

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if its faster then transmapped hair then i guess we will use this now.

is dynamic hair even without iDL faster in poser? because i think SM never said this.

p.s. : you used shadows on the hair right?

It is faster indeed :)
And yes i used raytraced shadows on the hair.

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Now just to demonstrate the effect of the tick box 'Opaque_in_shadow' of the hair node, here is a small render with the 'Opaque_in_shadow' box unticked.

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Now with the box ticked.

To better see the difference, open the two pictures in different tabs and switch from one to the other. Look at the top of his head we can see through the hair and the shadow produced by the hair on his forehead.

Edit: render time: 3min 50s for both renders.

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Ok this is another reason to get p8. i've got a bunch of dynamic hair that i never use but would love to.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

vincebagna,
I noticed your render settngs image says D3D on the top.
Mine does not say that. I am on a PC.
Are you using something different to render with?
cheerio
lululee

Quote - vincebagna,
I noticed your render settngs image says D3D on the top.
Mine does not say that. I am on a PC.
Are you using something different to render with?
cheerio
lululee

Nope, rendered in P8 :)
The D3D render setting script is located under Scripts/Partners/Dimension3D/RenderFirefly.
It allows you to set up additional settings than the normal render setting window, as IDL bounces separately from the raytraced bounces for instance ,)

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vince, thanks for the info on dynamic hair and IDL.
is there any degradation in any shiny or reflective surface when ray trace irradiance cache is zero?
I have a feeling that any render effect other than diffuse bounces will require both ICs to have at least some moderate value, e.g. 50.

Thank so much Vince. I have really learned a lot from this thread.
cheerio
lululee

Vince,
could you tell me where the "Opaque_in_shadow" node is located?
Cheerio
lululee

I don't know for the IC=0 effect, though i have already use this 0 value, but it was for large scenes where reflections were not that noticeable.

Lululee, 'Opaque_in_shadow' is a setting on the hair node, it's not a node by itself :)

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Any chance of seeing the shaders/settings you're using for the hair (particularly the for the last set of renders)?

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com

setting D3D's first IC to zero in an IDL render might speed it up, but then ray-trace-dependent fx would have maxError=1.0, which would be bad IMVHO.

D3D's first IC is not applicable to IDL - that is the IC value for AO. There is no AO with IDL.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Those are great news!
I always liked to play with dynamic hair althought not many times had a good result...
Those renders really make a huge difference! IDL helps dynamic hair look much more realistic!

My FreeStuff

if I read the python manual correctly, setGImaxError nullifies setmaxError, hence even as enabling IDL prevents any light-associated AO from being calculated, so setting D3D's second IC may prevent D3D's first IC from being used in the occlusion/gather/IDL calculations. however, there are some discrepancies in said manual, e.g.:

setGInumbounces not officially supported
setGInumsamples not officially supported
setMaxSampleSize not officially supported

this is gonna make it tough for their techs to explain those things, unless they're just more typos. I wish I had a dollar for every typo I've spotted so far. :lol:

The phrase "not officially supported" is not a typo. Perhaps you're assuming that the phrase is equivalent to "doesn't work"? That's not what it means. It means it isn't officially supported. They could remove it or make it do something different or do nothing anytime they feel like. It may not work the way it is documented. They may not fix it if you find a bug in it. Etc.

A while back, Whichway, while investigating the IDL settings, posted a screenshot of the D3D settings he used in a render, where he had the first IC set to 200. Stewer replied:

Quote - The one set to 200 is the occlusion cache, which doesn't get used at all in this case - that one's for AO only (and internally, Poser clamps it to a max of 100 anyway).

The deciding factor here is the second IC parameter.

I suspect, although Stefan has never spoken about it, that IC=0 is not 100% error, because, similarly, Poser would clamp that at 1.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Here is the shader for the black hair.

Also i've posted the final version of the red haired girl in the gallery if someone is interested :)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1957113

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Thanks so much for sharing this, Vince.
cheerio
lululee

Thank you, Vince. This will come in very handy.

Yes, thanks for this.
Just one thing - it looks like you have the colour of the root Translucence channel as black (therefore having no effect). Is this correct or do you have a very dark grey in there?

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com

Ah so THAT is what the Opaque_in_shadow do. Thanks,. I'll try that.

I've been using dynamic hair evers ince I first saw this thread. It does indeed look better than it used to AND render faster. A true win-win situation ^_^ v

Anyone know of V4 skullcaps that might well with dynamic hair?

Vestmann's Gallery

I'm only aware of this:

www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php

.. but haven't tried it.

______________

Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

Quote - Adorana has a lot of dynamic hair in the freestuff area for V3, with a little modification you can also use them for V4, If you visit her website she also hair for M3 and a whole set of material preset for all kinds of haircolors. She is one of my favourites.

You can find her website here:

www.adorana.de/index.php

best regards,

Bopper.

Hello,
thanks a lot, much appreciated! Very useful link.

Best regards,
Michael

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: IDL and dynamic hair