I have some V2 textures I'd like to convert for use with V4. I was planning on purchasing TC2, but then I read their FAQ. In their infinite wisdom, the makers of TC2 have declared that they have deliberately nerfed the ability to convert genitalia on Michael because rendering nude figures is "unethical." Not wanting to put money in the pockets of such infuriatingly arrogant moral busybodies (Have they seen Michaelangelo's David? Are they shocked and apalled?) I am looking for an alternative, but nothing has come up. I'd rather go without rather than give money to a finger-waggling moral censor who says I'm "unethical" if I render realistic nude figures without the Victorian prudery of a fig leaf, so can anyone offer any suggestions, or am I SOL?

There's nothing else on the market that can do what TC2 does BUT DPHoadley has been working on remapping various figures to take earlier incarnations textures.

ps I have TC2 but only because I bought the older converter, I won't buy any plugins due to their policies concerning the genitals & refusal to support Apollo.

IMHO they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Quote - Have they seen Michaelangelo's David? Are they shocked and apalled?

YES

Stupidity also evolves!

I fell for the sales pitch when TC2 first came out but as soon as the fine print was made clear I returned it for a full refund. I feel much the same as the OP in that regards. I won't fund anyone who judges what's in my heart without actually knowing who I am.

Quote - In their infinite wisdom, the makers of TC2 have declared that they have deliberately nerfed the ability to convert genitalia on Michael because rendering nude figures is "unethical."

Whut? :blink:

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Quote - Whut? :blink:

From the TC2 FAQ:

*Q: Why are male genitilia not supported?

A: 3D Universe will not be supporting the conversion of male genitilia in any of our TC2 plugins, although they may be supported by a third party plugin.

We do not see 3D genitilia of either sex as a requirement for CG art. We have only seen it used in artwork bordering on soft porn, and will not support unethical or "porn" art in any way.

Please take this into consideration before purchasing any of the male plugins.

I emailed them about it, and their response was basically, "We don't need your money, go pound sand."

so they blur the females on conversion then? betcha they don't ;)

In a way, I wish I hadn't read this. I love their toon figures and now I will refrain from purchasing any of their products in the future. I can understand their having personal objections and even not wanting to convert genitals, but the assertion that 'We have only seen it used in artwork bordering on soft porn' shows either an appalling ignorance of 3D art or a threshold of offense so low one wonders how they can stand to even look at themselves in the mirror.

What do they do about female textures with those evil, porn-inducing genitalia on the map? Unless they blur it out, they are still contributing to whatever moral downfall they are supposedly trying to stave off. I have a sneaky suspicion that despite their "of either sex" disclaimer, it's the male part that sends them into a sphincter clenching tizzy.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

It's only the new converter that has this puritanical moralising attached to it too, the older converter can still do genitals only it's no good for the latest figures.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

God made a mistake making man with a penis. They are only correcting this error.

Stupidity also evolves!

" It shrinks? I don't know how you guys walk around with those things."

Elaine Benes

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Kryten: Well, but is it supposed to look like that?

Lister: Well, yeah.

Kryten: *It's hideous! That's the best design they could come up with? Are you seriously telling me there were choices, and someone said "Ah, there, that's it. That's the shape we're looking for: The last-chicken-in-the-shop look?" Shakespeare had one? Einstein? Perry Como sang "Memories are Made of This" with one of those stashed in his slacks?

Red Dwarf : DNA

I thought that DAZ Studio 3D Advanced has this capability...

"Map Transfer - This allows you to convert a texture from one figure's UV's so they can be used on another figure's UV's."

I haven't yet gotten around to trying it.

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Laurie

The only info I can find was a review that said: "Map Transfer allows you to transfer UV maps from one figure to another, if the figures have similar geometry"

I don't know if V2 and V4 would be "similar" enough. I'd like to hear which figures it can convert between and how good a job it does.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - I thought that DAZ Studio 3D Advanced has this capability...

"Map Transfer - This allows you to convert a texture from one figure's UV's so they can be used on another figure's UV's."

That doesn't seem to make sense logically. V4, for example, separates the limb textures from the body textures. How would DS know to split up a V3 texture into different image files just from looking at the UV maps?

Quote - In a way, I wish I hadn't read this. I love their toon figures and now I will refrain from purchasing any of their products in the future. I can understand their having personal objections and even not wanting to convert genitals, but the assertion that 'We have only seen it used in artwork bordering on soft porn' shows either an appalling ignorance of 3D art or a threshold of offense so low one wonders how they can stand to even look at themselves in the mirror.

What do they do about female textures with those evil, porn-inducing genitalia on the map? Unless they blur it out, they are still contributing to whatever moral downfall they are supposedly trying to stave off. I have a sneaky suspicion that despite their "of either sex" disclaimer, it's the male part that sends them into a sphincter clenching tizzy.

Hear hear. They've seen the last of my money with that attitude.

seems the logical answer is for some one to come up with a third party plug in
we should respect their view just as you would want ppl to respect yours
we should not want to make anyone do something they do not feel is right no matter what their reasons are.

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

Quote -

That doesn't seem to make sense logically. V4, for example, separates the limb textures from the body textures. How would DS know to split up a V3 texture into different image files just from looking at the UV maps?

It would know which map corresponds to each material zone from each figure's cr2...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

The more I think about it, the more insane it becomes. If they are determined not to promote borderline 'soft porn,' how on earth can they facilitate the proliferation of all those pendulous, turgid nippled breasts - or those taut butts? Are all those naked Vickies devoid of any erotic punch as long as their lips are sealed?*

"How would DS know to split up a V3 texture into different image files just from looking at the UV maps?"*

Not sure what you mean here but you would have to specify the source & target figures yourself. Once you know that, you can use an appropriate recipe for moving pixels from one layout to the other.

"we should not want to make anyone do something they do not feel is right no matter what their reasons are."

No one is asking them to that I see. Respecting their right to do as they choose doesn't mean giving up the right to question the logic of their public justification for their choice - or the right to take exception to a view that lumps an entire panoply of art work into a single derided bucket. I admire their determination to stick to their position, however wrongheaded I may think it is. They seem like decent folks so I'm sure they will admire and respect the decision of anyone who chooses not to do business with them.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Whoa so this is why no gen crease or nipples on Skye I guess

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Quote - seems the logical answer is for some one to come up with a third party plug in
we should respect their view just as you would want ppl to respect yours
we should not want to make anyone do something they do not feel is right no matter what their reasons are.

I've been meaning to say something about this situation with texture converter for several months. It burned me up to read that they would not support conversion of the genital textures, basicually immasculating the imported M3s to M4. But they are the vendor and that was their stance on it even though I might think its a bad idea. Who are they to tell me I cannot do nudes? I was raised believing that the human body was beautiful, both male and female. But as I said, they are they vendor of the product. I can hope that someone with enough savvy can create a 3rd party plugin that will do the conversion. And for anyone who remembers the ridiculous discussion in the DAZ forums regarding M4's anatomy: Viva la Toast!

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

well they've become useless to anyone wanting to use them for serious work. glad I never bought any of their stuff.

Quote - The more I think about it, the more insane it becomes. If they are determined not to promote borderline 'soft porn,' how on earth can they facilitate the proliferation of all those pendulous, turgid nippled breasts - or those taut butts? Are all those naked Vickies devoid of any erotic punch as long as their lips are sealed?

I suspect it's the same reason fundie christers are obsessed with the parts of Numbers and Deuteronomy which say man lying with man is an abomination, but quietly ignore the bits which say wearing mixed fabrics is also an abomination and that a woman who doesn't bleed on her wedding night should be dragged outside and stoned to death by the groom's family: "morality" has always been the most convenient excuse for justifying one's personal prejudice.

Quote - [... "morality" has always been the most convenient excuse for justifying one's personal prejudice.

So what's the underlying morality behind the term "fundie christers"?

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

instead of complaining and saying they are "wrongheaded"because they see things different then you, then just make your own textures. not everyone see and think the same and just cause they think and feel different then you then i don't see how that make them wrongheaded. what make your point of view "rightheaded" why do they have to justify their work to anyone..they make it if you want it buy it if you don't pass on it. but just cause it's your view don't make it right. and please let's not make this a religious issue. they didn't tell anyone what to make and as far as serious art what is serious art??if you do serious art then create your own serious art texture and stop depending on someone else to create your art for you..

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

Anton once said he had figured out a way to convert textures from figure to figure using only Poser somehow but I never caught how? Did he ever reveal the technique publicly?

Last I saw TC2 had no V2 plug-in but I have not checked lately.

BUT THE REAL ISSUE HERE is that this is a matter strictly between 3D Universe and DAZ but certainly not any purchasers or potential purchasers of the product... you should show some respect to DAZ and refrain from discussing the matter here when you have no knowledge on it. You could be exposing RMP to serious legal liabilities if you continue to discuss this private matter here much less continue to speculate wildly about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the people who have purchased the product or are considering purchasing the product or purchasing any other products from that developer or store. If you have any opinions about this matter it would be far more appropriate to take them up with DAZ customer service or on the DAZ community forums.

All in my opinion of course but I do imagine this thread will be locked down any momment!

Stallion, I said "...wrongheaded I may think it is" That's my opinion, not a statement of metaphysical truth. If you think that people shouldn't discuss or even complain about things they disagree with then you must have suffered a lot of heartburn here in the past decade :-) I do not do serious art, hell, I don't even do "art," and for the once in a blue moon that I do a male render, I could cobble together a passable penis. Why then criticize them?

Let's modify your statement: instead of saying that pretty much anyone who renders a nude image with genitals is a pornographer, why not just state that you prefer not to handle anatomically correct textures for personal reasons and leave it at that? Why suggest that anyone who has a different view is "unethical?" Apparently, you don't see the negative in their way of stating things, only in other's response. If they're going to make gratuitous jabs at people, they should expect to get jabbed back. It's as simple as 'No thanks, I don't drink' vs. 'The only people I've seen drink are filthy worthless louts.' See? Probably not.

I agree 100% that religion should be left out of this. There is no reason to go there and when you do, it always ends badly.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - the makers of TC2 have declared that they have deliberately nerfed the ability to convert genitalia on Michael because rendering nude figures is "unethical."

In other words, who renders any nude figure is an unethical person.

Quote - and will not support unethical or "porn" art in any way.

and unethical == porn

Who are judging and impossing their opinions and their moral values over us are they.
I cannot understand why Taleban comes up to my mind, very strange..., have I go to a shrink?....

Stupidity also evolves!

Ethics usually flies out the Window when money shows it's ugly face on the scene. The wallet is mightier than the sword these days.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Hi, sort of related:

I thought this example was a good example of how to express your veiws and wishes as the creator of an app, while at the same time not trying to force me as an individual to follow their personal morals.

www.3d-coat.com/our_voice.html

I found this respectful, tactfull and even made me think.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

You know the real reason it isn't implemented is that the guy didn't feel like it

My impression is that he has skillz but he doesn't "go the extra mile" very often

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Quote - I thought this example was a good example of how to express your veiws and wishes as the creator of an app, while at the same time not trying to force me as an individual to follow their personal morals.

www.3d-coat.com/our_voice.html

I found this respectful, tactfull and even made me think.

That's a good Scripture. Abe Lincoln cited it in his Second Inaugural Address...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Momodot, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think the Eva thread logic/rule applies here. There are no legal controversies I am aware of unless 3DU is saying Daz ripped off their technology, which I haven't heard. Otherwise, it certainly is in the interest of potential purchasers I would think and should be no more taboo than the myriad other product discussions here. Mind, the rules have been known to be slippery at times :-)*

"I found this respectful, tactful and even made me think."*

That is indeed a different & IMO a far better approach. I recall seeing morals sections on a couple of free items but it's unusual to find them on commercial products - not surprising since most don't want to tick off potential customers. 3DCoat's statement is probably done about as well as it can be and is quite admirable.

At the same time, I'm probably just as happy that most businesses refrain. In a diverse world it could get very interesting if you go beyond the generic morality of 'Please don't litter' on your Mickey D's styrofoam. Cookware manufacturers urging purchasers not to prepare pork/beef etc. in their products, admonitions against unseemly wear from clothing companies, Sony thanks you for not watching immoral DVDs on our player, Trojan condoms - forget it, and Smith & Wesson's copywriters would probably implode from the sheer existential contradictions. I don't know. I suppose It's good to make your morals known but at the end of the day if your business is that likely to promote behavior you disagree with... Alfred Nobel probably died wishing he had thought that one out a bit more.

Oops! Opera just requested that I consider not posting anymore, as they do not wish to promote NVIATWAS. Whoulda thunk it from the friggin' Swedes!

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - Momodot, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think the Eva thread logic/rule applies here. There are no legal controversies I am aware of unless 3DU is saying Daz ripped off their technology...

I read momodot's post as being sarcastic.

"I read momodot's post as being sarcastic."

My bad then, but with all these strange pods around after the meteor shower...Cletus, you can put the shotgun away.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Well if you want to see a similarly entertaining thread, there's a whole thread about DAZ censoring "Toast" over in the commons forum. In the end, you're not going to convince anyone to change their beliefs when it comes to the morality of showing or not showing "Toast".

Toast? Then names these kids come up with. Is toast aka tubesteak, trouser trout, Mr. Johnson or quim, jelly roll, muffin? On second thought, don't tell me. Like viewing the paparazi's shots of Britney's lady bits it'll probably turn out to be something I'll deeply regret. Peace out.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I don't like being called a porn producer because I rendered some nude figures, sometime in the past.. One doesn't equal the other. We're all naked under our clothes.

This IS an important warning about the fine print. I was about to buy TC2, but won't now. NOT just because they only built a half way useful product, but because they are insulting to potential customers without any base for their accusations other than their opinions.

To assume someone is guilty without evidence or trial smacks of the Salem witch trials. No, thank you. I'll take my business elsewhere. I am sad to see an accusatory attitude among any vendors.

I will never spend any money on any product by 3DU, who accuses me of unethical conduct. I am deeply offended and insulted because I might render a classical nude on occasion, and get called unethical. They could have handled it in another matter (as already pointed out), but they DIDN'T.

Insults ruin ones customer base, and one dissatisfied customer can drive off twenty potential ones. I'm dissatisfied.

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

Hi,
IMHO, it's dead anyway. Several months, the G2 females were listed as "in development"
(one year actually according to a post on 3DU's forum), and now it's back to rank 20
on the "to be done" ranking list, which, reading another post, will not even be respected at all.
("The plugin voting page was merely to give us an idea of demand. ")

Seems they have discarded the G2 plugin and are working on Skye support now.
(/sarcasm on) Great idea, we all need high res V4 textures on a toon! (/sarcasm off)
Personally I have given up the hope that any usable plugin will be available soon.

Best regards,
Michael

I'm getting that Skye plugin... Seems like a cost-effective way to get new skins for her.

I have TC2 but no plugins yet

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Quote - Toast? Then names these kids come up with. Is toast aka tubesteak, trouser trout, Mr. Johnson or quim, jelly roll, muffin? On second thought, don't tell me. Like viewing the paparazi's shots of Britney's lady bits it'll probably turn out to be something I'll deeply regret. Peace out.

Short answer is YES. For some reason, folks at DAZ don't like people tossing penis's around in the forums so everyone now refers to the male genitalia bits as Toast. A nice SFW appellation that brings up many humourous images along the way. IE: Burnt Toast = A Toast Texture with "Burnt" in specular or other "Burnt" in options.

Monty Pythonism: "But I don't WANT me toast burnt! I like it pale!"
"This is the department of toast burning. You want the department of being hit on the head. That's next door!"
"Leave BOTH me heads alone!"

:laugh: DAZ IS located in Utah, the most insular and conservative state in the union. Should we be surprised by their antics. I suppose not. It IS funny in some ways, though.

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

It's better to just laugh about it if you ask me.

Strewth! :lol:

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

"Toast" is much better than "junk" as a euphemism I think.

Me and the 3D Coat guy are worlds apart but you know... he seems so darn earnest. I read his bio too. I respect that kind of honesty and conviction and I respect people who can communicate their convictions like that in a straight forward and sensitive way. I really would not use 3D-Coat to butter my toast in anyway I thought he thought might be harmful to people or scare the horses or anything after reading that. The reason is that I wouldn't want to hurt the guys feelings. Really.

If 3DU just said, "yeah I was harmed by porn so please don't use my product for porn" or "my faith says I should not help people make porn" or something like that I could totally respect that... but you won't win my sympathesies by being a judgmental prig. Jesus drank wine with the tax collector and the prostitute... if you want to make a difference the thing is to state your convictions and your reasons for them and just maybe it will make someone think or even come around to your point of view. Faith should not come at the edge of a sword. Brow beating someone with plain old abuse just doesn't seem like a real practical way to lead by example.

I want a bumper sticker that says "I was harmed by porn"

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

I got a paper cut on my finger from a Playboy once...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

"...Utah, the most insular and conservative state in the union." Actually, I wouldn't single out Utah. They may be mostly conservative but good people. There are really scary folks everywhere. Singling out a state or group is painting with too broad a brush. Utah's Gov. has said some delightfully reasonable things compared to another pol I am woefully more familiar with. At least the guy in Utah hasn't mentioned freaking seceding from the freaking Union :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I've been there. I should have said, "In my opinion, the most insular and radically conservative state in the union..." instead of a more absolute statement. I did NOT like Utah out of 36 states visited so far in my life. It was like a foreign country run by pod people, IMO.

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

Toast.

It never fails to astound me that people who conceit themselves artists would be so inhibited, prudish and authoritarian. The role of art in society is to challenge prejudice and violate taboos. Cultures where artists have failed to do this or where the culture has not tolerated such iconoclasm have not lasted long enough to make their mark on history, sunk beneath the weight of their own hypocrisy and ignorance.

The growing influence of capitalism in the art world is nothing short of toxic. Rendered 3d art seems particularly prone to lowest-common-denominator capitalist commodification, probably because the medium requires an expensive initial outlay for the tools. CGI artists and the flock of parasitical support services which follow them around like the beggars' army which followed the Crusaders, picking through the rubble in their wake (and roasting and eating the occasional Muslim who crossed their path), have become so accustomed to giving in to social propriety that almost no one even questions it any more.

I think the reason the priggish finger-waggling by 3d Universe burns my hairy ass so much is that so few artists seem to care that (a) they are being called pornographers for displaying the human body as it actually exists, and (b) among the small group of people who do object to being called pornographers, even fewer object to the unquestioned assumption that making porn is wrong or bad. As someone who makes subversive, anti-authoritarian, post-modern, pornographic fetish art, I refuse to apologize for doing what I recognize as being both moral and a positive influence on the community.

"If the human body's obscene, complain to the manufacturer, not me." -- Larry Flynt

In a similar vein, there is another vendor who refuses to provide textures for the funny bone. I won't mention names, but it rhymes with nubgraphick. I like his female textures, but refuse to buy any of his/her male work as it is simply incomplete.

He/she generally, but not always, notes the lack of toast cover.

Poor form in my opinion.

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Seems like some people want to child-proof the universe. Serve the world right if the aliens that contact us look like giant penises. :laugh: Maybe that's why they haven't contacted us already.:lol:

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

Its funny... with some earnest people I would not post anything using their stuff that might offend them but then there are sanctimonious others that make me want to put up a site dedicated exclusively to the most outlandish porn I could imagine to make with thier stuff. At least that's how it is for me.

I wouldn't be offended if someone called me a pornographer. That would put me in the company of some pretty outstanding authors and artists. Some accomplished pornographers have gotten the Nobel Prize for Literature and others have gotten big shows at the Museum of Modern Art in New York and the Met. Not bad company at all... even if you don't value those particular measures of success.

*Now I wonder where that paper cut was and how it got there?

I am trying to recall the passage in Kurt Vonnegut's "God bless you Mr. Rosewater" where Rosewater shows the narrator a Playboy centerfold and the narrator says "Yeah, a girl..." and Rosewater explains that it is in fact not a girl but a trick the magazine publisher plays using ink on paper. Anyone got that book that they could post the exact quote for me?

Artistic freedom goes both ways, though. I recall a vendor who didn' t include genital textures because the she felt it would have been disrespectful to the character she had created. The choice is then up ot the purchaser.

Of course, as Rosewater would have noted, these are computer data and not actual people nor parts thereof.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

???? Outrage, moral indignation, denunciation of others over the objectionable LACK of genitals. The universe is an astonishingly amusing farce.

Why would I punish myself by not buying a product I can use, because I disagree with the ideas and opinions of the vendor? I read their explanation, shrugged, and bought the product. I can't convert the textures for myself without it. I have about 100 textures for more than a dozen different figures compatible with TC2. I can’t afford to buy drow, racial, or distinctively different textures for all of them. I buy stuff from websites that have products that I do not appreciate. Most of you would laugh at me if I passed up a good product because some of the products in a store made me uncomfortable. What would you advise me to do? Grow up.

It is as morally arrogant to judge some one else for what they choose not to do, as it is for them to judge you for what you choose to do. That applies whether people call themselves artists or not. This is simply not a pivotal civilization busting issue. I think many people in this thread feel judged and rebuked, which might not actually be the case, and you don’t like it. I don’t feel judged, and I wouldn’t care if I had been.

I don't really do nudes myself, but I don't care if other people do, nor condemn them. I can appreciate good artwork without being embarrassed over nudity. If I were talented enough to do textures, I would do the genitals for completeness sake. But, I respect people who feel differently, and if I see a texture I really like without a genital texture, I will probably buy it, and adjust a genital texture if I ever need one. I have dozens of them in my runtimes, want to see my collection?

As a health care provider I see way more people parts than I really care to see. The genitals of most males are not the same color as the rest of their skin. Does buying a texture mean that you have to use the genital texture if it doesn't quite match-up with the affect you are trying to achieve? In PhotoShop, one can alter the colors of a genital texture to coordinate well with the other body parts. If you have a lot of textures you have a lot of choices. I believe that Jepe has provided some texturing resources for some figures at another website. Yes, I visit every website I can find, even the ones that are not consistent with my interests. You never know where you will find a good product that you can use.

There are several generic male genital figures available that have been mapped to take several different figures’ textures. It seems to me that people who are really good at remapping whole figures would probably find the genitals much easier. Maybe one of the good remappers could be encouraged to do a little public service?

TC2 is one of those do something for yourself programs. Even if it converts a texture successfully, there will still be work left to do, if you want to use the textures well. If the vendor doesn't want to do everything for me, I can find other ways to do the job for myself. Apparently, no one who would know how to do so has felt morally worked up enough to make a plugin for TC2 to do this job. But if some one did make a plugin, I would probably buy it too.

Well, far be it from me to actually encourage people to violate their high moral standards and buy a product from a vendor whose lifestyle and mindset so offends their scruples.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Quote - Why would I punish myself by not buying a product I can use, because I disagree with the ideas and opinions of the vendor? I read their explanation, shrugged, and bought the product. I can't convert the textures for myself without it. I have about 100 textures for more than a dozen different figures compatible with TC2. I can’t afford to buy drow, racial, or distinctively different textures for all of them. I buy stuff from websites that have products that I do not appreciate. Most of you would laugh at me if I passed up a good product because some of the products in a store made me uncomfortable. What would you advise me to do? Grow up.It is as morally arrogant to judge some one else for what they choose not to do, as it is for them to judge you for what you choose to do. That applies whether people call themselves artists or not. This is simply not a pivotal civilization busting issue. I think many people in this thread feel judged and rebuked, which might not actually be the case, and you don’t like it. I don’t feel judged, and I wouldn’t care if I had been.

I don't really do nudes myself, but I don't care if other people do, nor condemn them. I can appreciate good artwork without being embarrassed over nudity.

So by your own admission you have no need for toast and do have need for neutered textures. That's fine and dandy for you, but what about the rest of us who do need toast to go with the whole loaf when we render? We're supposed to fork over our hard earned dough to someone who not only judges us, but refuses to offer the complete package? I think not. As for it being morally arrogant for me to judge them in reverse, who said I was doing that by not paying for their services? I think it's pretty morrally arrogant of you to judge people who need their toast for not buying a package that doesn't provide it.

The discussion isn't about people inflicting their convictions on people, it is about /how/ they express their convictions... respectfully like the 3D-Coat guy or offensively like the 3DU people.

I will admit it... there are things I want that I will not buy solely because the vendor has expressed morally offensive (say anti-gay) views publicly. It does no good but there it is... I work from an emotional not a rational basis. There is a good reason IMO not to know the personal views of certain actors, artists, content producers etc.

The 3DU thing isn't an outrage or an insult to me but it puts them squarely on the weeny list for me. My complaint with them is not that they are judging me (what do I care about that) but that they are being whiny and petulant... very bad form I say!

If they had simple asked in a polite way that I not use their product in renders that depict genitals I could/would respect that. The 3D-Coat guy told me his story and perspective and asked me to follow my conscience in being thoughtful toward everyone and also toward his feelings in the matter. Given the tone of his request I would have honored it even without the back story or any details.

Quote - There is a good reason IMO not to know the personal views of certain actors, artists, content producers etc.

Exactly! I haven't seen a new Mel Gibson movie since his on air comments about gay men.

He's into gay dudes??

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Boycotting something because it goes against your personal views is nothing new. That's not being judgemental, that's taking a stance - and sticking to it!

There are things I won't touch with a bargepole either because the company has done some grossly unethical things or even in some occasions because their commercials makes me want to tear out my eyes and rip off my ears simply because they are that horrible.

That's MY choice.

Boycotting works if enough people do it. It's a personal choice, but if everybody thinks it won't work so they won't do it - THEN it won't work.

Just to be clear, the reason I don't buy from vendors who omit genital textures is because they are selling a partial product.

What if they had a thing about faces, and provided textures without a face. I don't want to waste my time trying to color match another face to match their body texture, no matter how nice it might be.

Sell me a complete product, or I move on. As I said, I do buy female textures from the vendor in question, just not their incomplete offerings.

It's not really a boycott, just a choice not to waste my time and money.

By the way, that vendor has at least one product which clearly does not contain a genital map, and it is not mentioned. That is tricky, if not deceitful.

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Quote: He's into gay dudes??

Well, he didn't say that exactly but guys his age do have trouble expressing themselves :)

Yep! I most definitely won't see anything with Mel Gibson it it. My not going to see a movie with him in it desn't hurt him much but it does help me keep my blood pressure under control. Dude doesn't have to overshare the way he does.

I actually miss enjoying Swartzenager movies but I just can't anymore :(

I like and respect some people with political or moral views diametrically opposed to mine but I just have a low tolerance for people who are weenies about it.

This thread is unbelievably entertaining. I am glad I decided to read it through. The irony is remarkable, and I surely have learned a lot.

"So by your own admission you have no need for toast,"

Admission? What an odd word to use. Is that a crime or transgression to you? No, I don't need much toast, but I like it to be there if I should decide I want to use it. Anatomically, real and whole people have nipples and genitals. I personally feel that it is part of a complete package, and I don’t think it is morally objectionable to put it in. I understand if other people do and would not for the world encourage them to violate their consciouses for me. I don’t need them to. I can adapt something I already have to do the job (even though I lack the talent to paint my own textures). I just don't get bent out of shape if the genital texture isn't there, because I am creative enough to use other resources. So are you.

How did I say I that I NEED neutered textures? All of the male body textures are neutered. The genital textures are separate for a separate figure. I thought I made clear in my post that, because there are plenty of options, artists are not very limited by what TC2 doesn’t do. Can you convert arm, leg, body, eye, fingernail, teeth, tongue, etc. textures from one DAZ figure to another without TC2? I can’t. I don’t have many programs that do every single thing I want them to do, which is why I keep buying more programs.

Interestingly, the 3DU people made their program expandable, so that if anyone wanted to add conversion abilities to their software for genitals it could be done. I guess they thought that was a fair compromise between the community’s expressed needs, and their feelings.

They also did not provide for the conversion of textures for female genitals, other than what is painted on the body texture (which is really unavoidable). There are 3rd party conforming figures for female genitals not just for males, which are not supported by TC2. I suppose I am dense, but I had really not pegged this as a gay issue. I supposed that if people had asked for conversion of textures for female genital figures, their answer would have been the same. I figured the 3DU folks found all sexual content objectionable.

I suppose it has to do with the lens through which one sees the world (theirs, yours, mine). I could have been wrong in my assumptions, I admit it, but seeing we are ALL working from assumptions, I might also not be the only one who is wrong.

I have to wonder, if some one did write that "toast" plugin, and the figure support it needs to do conversions between various models, would the boycott still be on?

"As for it being morally arrogant for me to judge them in reverse, who said I was doing that by not paying for their services?"

Indeed, who said that? Not me. Don’t put words in my mouth, I did not put any in yours. There are plenty of posts in this thread that have been judgmental, quite apart from buying or not buying anything. Can you find a few? You may feel judged by me, but that is your interpretation. I did not single you or anyone else out.

"I think it's pretty morrally arrogant of you to judge people who need their toast for not buying a package that doesn't provide it."

You make it sound as if the only texture that you need is the one for the genitals. I also made it clear that I don’t judge people who render nude figures. I would think it fairly ridiculous to render a nude with no genitals. I want you to be able to have textures that fulfill all of your needs. But, there are plenty of "toast" textures available that will do that, and I dare say you have some of them. If I am arrogant (or petty for that matter) I am in good and plenteous company here.

I have always liked you, LostinSpaceman. I am determined to continue to do so. I have to admit, Mel Gibs is over the top, and I don’t enjoy him any more, or a lot of other actors.

lmk

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Hey man, not just dudes need toast, those chicks-with-dicks need toast too. See! Its not a gay issue!

Don't get me started with Poser and female genitalia!! It drives me positively crazy that the external genitalia on nearly all the female figures must be painted on. Why the hell don't the female figures have modeled genitals? I don't do erotic renders and the genitals on my renders are rarely over five or ten pixels square in a render but it is damn irritating I have to post work or use a prop to get the five or ten pixels unobtrusivly realistic.

The lack of detail makes stuff more pornographic IMO. When I go to my neighborhood bank or grocery store (well, actually anywhere in my neighborhood) and see the ladies in full hajib I feel like if I look them in the face I'm staring right at their private lady parts whereas when I was a dancer and later a painting teacher in the USA being even alone with a totally naked lady showing me her junk didn't seem sexual at all.

Now I am oversharing.

I tell you... I would be more upset that Poser figures had no anuses but the "bikini hip" rigging is so bad since abandoning the Poser 2 Nude Woman "bike pants" hip I wouldn't want to see what the buttocks bends would do to them!

Yeah! It is damn irritating when a figure is incomplete... I hate when figures don't have ear orifices and I am also frustrated that I sometimes have to use prop eyes instead of the figure default eyes and I wish I could use geometry eye lashes more often but I have reconciled myself to transmapped lashes.

Prop vulvas are a real PITA.

Why is "bike pants" better? I'm looking at the P2 woman and I'm not sure what's definitive about her hip/leg rigging

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

There has been plenty of discussion on this. I don't know why DAZ does not make better female genitals. More polygons in the area would not make the figure remarkably heavier. Even if DAZ did not supply morphs, with enough polys, people who can make morphs would have something to work with. Maybe it is the whole family image thing. Could be a fear of government intrusion?

I think that the DAZ male genitals are a joke. Yes, I have looked at them, and tried them out on the male figures. They are in the package. People complain that they do not pose well and it is true. Is it the rigging? They certainly have enough polygons to provide 3rd party morphs, but I don’t recall seeing any packages at other websites.

I haven’t bought third party props, I will have to take your word that they are hard to work with. There are several 3rd party props for the males, and they look better in the promotionals than DAZ’s "toast."

I wish I could paint.

lmk

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

I think the WIP Antonia by odf has "Bike Pants" hips... the "bike pants" hip doesn't tear or deform as badly as the "bikini hip" in my opinion. Also the JCM joint fixes are easier to control. P2 Nude Woman could go through a wide range of leg movement and the groin wouldn't tear. There was over stretching of the genital area but that is easily fixable with joint parameter adjustment or even just a magnet. The result was that a half descent texture and bump map gave better genitals than the morphs and props for V4 do now. I don't need a mimic ready vulva... just something that doesn't look weird in normal artistic or everyday poses.

"I don't need a mimic ready vulva..."

I vivid and discriptive metaphore that I am unlikely to forget.

I am wondering how Eva, when and if she can be used and talked about, will measure up in this and every other area. She is supposed to have many more polys than DAZ figures. I have her, but I never even got her installed.

lmk

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

I actually find neutered models uncomfortable, maybe I have a castration complex but guys and girls without "toast" just feel wrong. Just my opinion.

I agree with you. Without nipples and gens I feel more like I'm just playing with dolls.

As far as Eva... She's comparable in poly count to Miki or Sydney so there is no excuse for bad gens

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

I believe in freedoom and freedom of expression, but it is a two way road.
They have the freedom to call me a "pornographer" and I have the freedom and right to call them "Talebans"!!
NOTE: The meaning of the word Taleban is the meaning used by Western media.

Is there interest for a "toast" converter M3 to M4?
I can do one, it only will turn a M3 toast texture into a M4 toast, nothing more.
NOTE: Toast = penis.

Stupidity also evolves!

I put different junk on different base figures all the time... don't have to worry much about it if there is a nice transmap at the join... after all, as lmk pointed out most dudes don't have the junk too well color coordinated to the trunk.

Don't get me started on how practically all Poser skin textures have even skin tone stem to sturn. D3D Perfect Tan has been a boon to me... now I don't have to image edit to get tan lines. I have made my own "Farmer's Tan" masks to work with it.

I wonder... can toast be converted from M3 to M4 just using WardrobeWizard or XD? It is just a conforming accessory after all.

Biggest frustration with WardobeWizard is that it is hobbled to not convert the extremities on a figure... I would have been so grateful if it had just done a check M4 geometry and .cr2 say in the runtime and if it found those let me convert the M3 Reduced Resolution to that form and rigging! Then I would have an M4 that took my M3 textures and could actual run on my old kerosene fueled PC. DAZ would not loose any money since I would have to buy the M4 morphs to convert over with D3D's Clothes Morphs and it would still need M4 clothes. Only the texture makers would suffer but they aren't getting my business on M4 anyway. I hate all these 75K to 120K figures with mesh that just ends up covered in clothes anyway.

I wish people would just release new figures as a morph to the Millennium 3 Unimesh base geometry and a .cr2 donor for rigging the new shape.

Quote - "As for it being morally arrogant for me to judge them in reverse, who said I was doing that by not paying for their services?"

Indeed, who said that? Not me. Don’t put words in my mouth, I did not put any in yours. There are plenty of posts in this thread that have been judgmental, quite apart from buying or not buying anything. Can you find a few? You may feel judged by me, but that is your interpretation. I did not single you or anyone else out.

"I think it's pretty morrally arrogant of you to judge people who need their toast for not buying a package that doesn't provide it."

You make it sound as if the only texture that you need is the one for the genitals. I also made it clear that I don’t judge people who render nude figures. I would think it fairly ridiculous to render a nude with no genitals. I want you to be able to have textures that fulfill all of your needs. But, there are plenty of "toast" textures available that will do that, and I dare say you have some of them. If I am arrogant (or petty for that matter) I am in good and plenteous company here.

I have always liked you, LostinSpaceman. I am determined to continue to do so. I have to admit, Mel Gibs is over the top, and I don’t enjoy him any more, or a lot of other actors.

lmk

Well I've gone back and re-read your post several times to figure out just what it was about your post that made me respond the way I did. Basically, you did put words in my mouth and the mouths of everyone else in the thread who has posted their views about 3DU's judgemental statements as to why they don't provide toast. Where did you do this you ask? Here's the quote:

Quote - Most of you would laugh at me if I passed up a good product because some of the products in a store made me uncomfortable. What would you advise me to do? Grow up.

You basically assumed we would all laugh and tell you to grow up for not buying a useful product that made you uncomfortable. In the process of putting the words "Grow Up" into all of our mouths, it looked very much as if you were telling all of us to "Grow Up" as well.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want you or anyone else to "Not Like Me", but when I'm painted to be somehow silly for not buying a product that I don't find complete or useful to me AND is made by people who go about making objectionable statements about what I may or may not be doing with nude Poser figures, I'm not so certain I should care if you like me.

That being said, I'm not calling for you or anyone else to boycott the makers of 3DU. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone else how to spend their money.

I wonder if the 3DU guys won't buy figure textures by those perverts who include genital maps :0)

Maybe we need a "no nads" store for both male and female textures!

Attached Link: Channing's - Toast and Jam with TC textures

I found it! Universal toast! By Channing no less. Just parent to hip.

Be careful where you place the butter S.V.P.

Stupidity also evolves!

Oooh, can we see a pic with the melting butter - never mind.

It seems to me that any impulse toward principle, whether you agree with the principle or not, is a good thing in most cases - especially when the alternative is ho-hum, accept the status quo, life must go on and goods must be acquired, don't let anything interfere with even the least non-essential bit of acquisition or profit, or hedonistic enjoyment. That's why I admire 3DCoat for leaving whatever money they may be losing on the table. I may accept and even respect 3DU's stand but I do not have to simply smile and ignore the fact that they are being, in my view, at best oddly tone deaf and yes, at worst insulting.

Yeah, lmk, I get it, no skin off your backside, you don't care yada, yada. I do however disagree with you attempt to characterize this as equivalent moralizing. No one has said that 3DU is evil, immoral or unethical that I recall (rude, weird maybe). They have essentially stated that anyone who disagrees with their position is "unethical" and a "pornographer." Apparently you aren't so sure about that, no surprise since you state that the issue is of no relevance to you and apparently of no interest other than as an opportunity to show your disdain tough love for those who see it differently.

Gee was that harsh? I always wonder. Oh well, life is too short and being liked is probably overrated, especially at my age.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I personally could give a flying broomstick if 3DU TC2 will convert M2's Toasts to Match M4 toast. If 3dU does not want to convert oh well. I will still but their products due to they are good products. Atleast 3DU stands up for what they believe in, I respect that, what I don't respect is the people who bash 3DU because what 3DU believes in.

I thought this was a community and not a bash fest.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

Looking back at the original post, this whole thread is rather moot, as the poster wanted to convert V2 textures, which TC2 doesn't support...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

I have a V2 to V3 converter already, so in theory I could have used TC2 to convert them on from V3 to V4.

I'm seeing red!

Ouch, my eyes! Quick apply toast to eyes!

I have dphoadley's V2 that takes V3 textures from CP and I really like it. A little expensive but I do like it. Can also be used for male figures with M3 textures. Very well done remap.

Right on lmckenzie. I too appreciate people having principals even if they are principals I don't agree with... better than the unconsidered life. I think I said 3DU were being weenies but only as an opinion you know, not a statement of fact.

There was a case where this model tried to sue someone for saying online that she was a skank and a whore. The court said she could sue on the latter but not on the former. Calling her a skank was a legitimate statement of opinion while calling her a whore could possibly be a misrepresentation of her professional endevours.

Man, what is the fun of forums if you can't gossip. Gossip strictly on Poser related topics but still gossip. Why does anyone have toast or toasters for that matter if not to occasion gossip.

Quote - I personally could give a flying broomstick if 3DU TC2 will convert M2's Toasts to Match M4 toast. If 3dU does not want to convert oh well. I will still but their products due to they are good products. Atleast 3DU stands up for what they believe in, I respect that, what I don't respect is the people who bash 3DU because what 3DU believes in.

I thought this was a community and not a bash fest.

Bash Fest Alert ...

Sooooo ...

... by that logic, we should all respect Idi Amin. He was a very good cannibal, so even if you find eating the flesh of fellow humans repugnant, you still have to respect him for doing it so well, don't you? That's what he believes in ... so, if you don't believe in it and try to call him on it, you're just imposing your bourgeois scruples on the poor guy. Just 'cause he likes to chew the occasional femur is no reason to besmirch his good name, is it?

Or, just maybe, there's an implied disrespect for fellow humans embodied in the act of knoshing on their extremities. Like the implied contempt for those who do not find the actual representation of the human form in art repugnant.

I'm just sayin' ...

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Choosing not to add a feature to a commercial program is morally equivalent to cannibalism??

We live in interesting times...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

I'm sold i think I'll go buy TC2 today

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

Now all my moral equations make sense! The missing constant? No toast=cannibalism!

Quote -

Bash Fest Alert ...

Sooooo ...

... by that logic, we should all respect Idi Amin. He was a very good cannibal, so even if you find eating the flesh of fellow humans repugnant, you still have to respect him for doing it so well, don't you? That's what he believes in ... so, if you don't believe in it and try to call him on it, you're just imposing your bourgeois scruples on the poor guy. Just 'cause he likes to chew the occasional femur is no reason to besmirch his good name, is it?

Or, just maybe, there's an implied disrespect for fellow humans embodied in the act of knoshing on their extremities. Like the implied contempt for those who do not find the actual representation of the human form in art repugnant.

I'm just sayin' ...

Klebnor

You are talking apples and nuts, mostly nuts.

What does cannibalism have to do with the fact a commercial product. I could see if you where comparing the fact microsoft does not include word with office. I'd say againg who gives a flying broomstick, cuz I use Open Office

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

Ah ... relativism raises it's head and casts a malevolent eye on the proceedings.

The use of the term "by that logic" signals an intent to provide an analogy. Such analogies are often shaded toward the absurd, the better to illustrate the point. Moral equivalence is a slippery slope. The statement under consideration posits that one should be respected simply for standing up for what one believes in - without questioning the underlying belief. This is intellectually facile.

All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke

In closing, it does not appear to me that "choosing not to add a feature" is the same as crippling an existing capability in specific circumstances that one finds unseemly.

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Hey, this thread is FOR people who CAN give a flying broomstick if 3DU TC2 will convert M2's Toasts to Match M4 toast!

You really can't understand an argument Reductio ad absurdum? The famed pornographer Plato based a whole career on that sheet. Raa as we like to call it is a legitimate logical argument not a fallacy. It does not imply a moral equivalence, it indicates a faulty reasoning. I believe you are giving us the old Reductio ad ridiculum in response.

I thought is was more 'res ipsa loquitur', myself.

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

My toast res ipsa loquitur!

Just so it doesn't drool.

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Dude, my toast doesn't drool... my toast rules!

Rules exactly what I'm not sure though...

Poser, that is a commercial product, has its sale forbiden in Saudit Arabia due strict moral principles and who is found using Poser who knows how many lashes he receives....

One more analogy, this time without Idi Amin.

Stupidity also evolves!

Of course, Idi Amin was very well received in Saudi Arabia, whence he moved in 1981 and lived happily ever after until his untimely death in 2003.

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Damn!, we cannot get rid of Idi Amin. Let try Khmer Rouge principles.

Stupidity also evolves!

Ah, but Poser is readily available in Cambodia since the Khmer Rouge were removed from power by Vietnam ... just as Idi Amin was removed from power by his neighbor, Tanzania.

It all comes back to Idi !!!

Little known fact - Idi loved toast !

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

LostinSpaceman:

Sorry to respond so late, I had bedtime, and a morning rush to work.

I accept the criticism. I was too amused about something which bothers a lot of people. I don't feel the same about the situation, or agree with much of the thinking here about the subject, but I was also not sensitive to the feelings of those who are disturbed by this, and I apologize. I still find the thread stimulating, except it has taken an odd turn this morning.

momodot:

I tried WW2 to convert the M3 conforming genital figure to M4, but the process tore the mesh of the genital figure (scrotum and shaft). The converted figure did conform to M4's hip zone. I did not experiment to see if I could improve the results with diferent settings, or if adjusting the figures morphs would help. In principle, it should work, but the genital figure is obviously more complex than a simple hip part.

I do not have CrossDresser, so I cannot try that. I am not up to playing with this right now. I don't feel at all well today, and I want to go rest. (Remapping the figures may still be the easiest solution).

Very, Very, Very off Topic:
Siltermermaid has some lovely textures (12) for V4 on sale at Contnet Paradise. A price each of $2.50 USD is hard to beat, even if one is not normally interested. I just had to tell some one.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Quote - I thought is was more 'res ipsa loquitur', myself.

If that were the case, you wouldn't need an analogy ...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

*Quote: "I tried WW2 to convert the M3 conforming genital figure to M4, but the process tore the mesh of the genital figure (scrotum and shaft). The converted figure did conform to M4's hip zone. I did not experiment to see if I could improve the results with diferent settings, or if adjusting the figures morphs would help. In principle, it should work, but the genital figure is obviously more complex than a simple hip part."

Then I guess sticking with parenting the male genitals is fine... personally I wouldn't mind if things like shoes were rigged as parented posable props as opposed to fully conforming. It would make it easier to use different shoes on different figures. The hip rigging on shoes is a pain for all sorts of reasons... better just to have the toe and foot boned and the shoe parented IMO. Same goes for .cr2 Hair, more often then not I end up parenting it rather than conforming it.

Personally I don't like these posing penises...* often just tossing on Michael 1/2 spawned as a prop is adequate for me. I wish there was just more veriaty of static prop male genitalia instead of these super morphing posables. I don't animate so once I get the genitals posed I often just convert them into a fixed prop.

One thing I really like about Apollo is his integrated genitals. At least the G2 male genitals are made of fewer parts. I saw a thing on youtube by Phantom3D about difficulties scaling the M4 genitals... I mean to try propegatingScale to see if that helps with the smoothing and bending parameters etc.

Poser 5 Judy had nice reasonable female genitals. I notice Arduino and others put the female so far underneath the pelvis as opposed to in a more frontal position. I have never figured out why. I would say less then 1% of the naked women I have ever seen have those hidden vulvas you can't see from a frontal standing pose. Is it some sort of ethnic thing?

P4 Eve too had perfectly presentable genitals but V4 has a super weird groin I feel. Her thighs don't blend into her crotch. It is like she is wearing a bikini or her legs are just stuck on or something... no flow from legs to crotch. I find it very distracting. Far more so than the V2 or V3 groin modeling.*

BTW* My understanding of res ipsa loquitur is that it is a tacit substitution of supposition in place of logic or evidence actually. A polite term for a tautological argument. Namely, the parent's retort *"Because I say so!"

momodot:

WW2 will convert a conforming figure gential figure to a posable prop for the same figure. Conform M3 genital to M3, and change it to a prop. I don't know if there is an easier way, but as I have said, I will always find the hardest way to do something before I find anything else.

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

I did not know WW2 did any operations with props... I'll have to look more closely. Are you meaning an un-rigged "static prop" or a non-conforming "posable prop"? My terminology is all muddled but to me a non-conforming posable prop is a muti-part figure that is rigged but does not have a hip as a root part. An example is say an easypose tube. In the case of a shoe it would have a toe bone connected to a terminal foot bone but not follow a phantom IK chain up the hip for purposes of conforming.

BTW Dimension3D has a neat little script for converting figures into static one piece props with one click. Ockham has a similar script called "Furniturize" I think. Very handy sometimes once you have a figure posed to turn it into a prop without having to export/import. If you load it in set-up room and right back out it becomes a figure again and can take standard MATposes.

One hassle with doing it by export/import is loosing transparency settings on the eyes and lashes and probably any fancy shader set-ups there might be while these scripts preserve the material settings as loaded. You just have to remember to save the new prop or prop figure. I often turn my background figures into props to cut the amount of memory used in a scene.

res ipsa loquitor means the thing speaks for itself. Hence the pointed barb from WandW.

And quite right he/she is. Hoist by my own petard !

By the way, and somewhat but no entirely off topic, the new Behemoth 2 from Sixus has integrated toast in the mesh as, if memory serves me, project human did as well.

auf, los! essen ist fertig.

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Quote - By the way, and somewhat but no entirely off topic, the new Behemoth 2 from Sixus has integrated toast in the mesh as, if memory serves me, project human did as well.

auf, los! essen ist fertig.

Klebnor

You're safe; I don't know much German.

Have's Oni, which some on this thread used as the basis as their avatars, also has a concealed weapon...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Quote - You really can't understand an argument Reductio ad absurdum?

When did Harry Potter get involved in all this? :tt2:

Quote -

Little known fact - Idi loved toast !

Klebnor

With BBQ Sauce.

auf, los! essen ist fertig. ~ Gotta go, dinner is ready.

Nothing controversial there.

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

momodot:

I don't know what kind of prop it makes. WW2 has a check box. When I am borrowing morphs from one figure for another, I use 2nd Skin by Dimension3d to hold the host figure's morphs, WW2 to reform the mesh to the shape of the target figure, and then use Morphing Cloths to convert the realigned morphs to the target figure. I noticed that WW2 can make a figure or a prop.

I made a figure of the M3 genital figure converted to fit M4. That way it would conform to M4's hip, and retain its rigging. Of course it would also retain its UV mapping, and take M3 textures. This would eliminate the need to convert the textures in the first place. In theory it could work. I don't know anything about rigging, and I suspect that that is what is thrown off by the conversion process. I do really suggest that some one who has XD try to see if that program can convert the M3 Genital CR2. While we may not need a converted genital figure much, others might find it very useful.

lmk

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

" I don't like these posing penises" But you can make little costumes for them and stage skits.

"Is it some sort of ethnic thing?" I ain't gonna go there with regard to any of the Japanese implementations - notorious old joke about Occidental myths and Asian female genitalia. Arduino, viceroy of vaginas, lord of labia, count of - well that guy is Italian I believe and AFAIK there is nothing especially odd about Italian lady bits. In the interest of science however I will research this further.

Years ago, Zygote (or perhaps Daz by then) supposedly stated that in their opinion there was no artistic need for anatomically correct female figures. I assume that meant that any pose which would reveal the omission was not artistic, though as Momodot points out, for most females that would leave you with an extremely limited range of poses for nudes. It seemed maybe just a wee bit sexist to me but others suggested a lack of access to, or familiarity with the requisite source material.

Whatever, the introduction of the gen_crease morph with V3 was a welcome change and probably adequate for non-erotic/non-medical images. Miki, Maya Doll and Have's Eroko have decent built in pudding. All of the bolt on accessories and after market pudding cups suffer from the dilemma of texturing. As LMK observes, there is enough natural variation in host/toast skin tone to give you some leeway - though perhaps more so for Caucasians. Pudding doesn't seem to mix and match so well to my eye especially when the texture has to blend into the rest of the pelvis.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Someone call me?

Stupidity also evolves!

I have created a texture converter which is an excellent product and superior in craft. It has been made to only convert textures of the caucasion race, since I believe all other races are beast races. And anyone using textures of the beast races are partaking in beastiality which is a sin. I have decided this for you because of my superior morality, you as potential customers must purchase my product and thereby support my beliefs. I have appended my beliefs to my product by my statements. You do not have the right to not purchase my product because of my statements, nor do you have the right to say anything derogatory of my beliefs, after all I am only standing up for my morally superior beliefs.

(I dont actually believe this, but there are those who do)

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Most likely I will never buy tc2 3 or any other for that matter, If you aren't going to do the job completely, why bother doing it part way.

Don't say because of your morals, I hate it when someone tries to thrust their fucked up morals on me. I have fucked up morals of my own without someone else trying to make me do as they do.

Quote - Now all my moral equations make sense! The missing constant? No toast=cannibalism!

Well, apparently No toast=racism.

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

so i guess no one will be posting their renders or visiting here dna or daz or any site that wont let them post full nude renders since they have a no nude policy i mean they are forcing their views on you and all.
sheesh....

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

In the town where I live, the speed limit is 25 mph. I find this limit ridiculously low, but have not succeeded in convincing the local authorities to increase it.

I still drive through town regularly ... I live there, after all. Having said that, I would not buy a car with a maximum speed of 25 mph to match the village speed limit. I frequently find myself on other roads, with higher allowable limits. Therefore I chose to purchase a vehicle with a broad range of capabilities, then use it in a manner appropriate to the surroundings.

Just because you can doesn't mean you always do. It's nice to have the capability, though.

By the way, I sometimes exceed 25 mph within city limits ... don't tell anyone.

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Thiers a simple solution for the problem, and i use a P**** model and can use any texture i want and use on any figure i want male or female.
if you look you will find.

Here is a better solution to the issue, learn how to create textures your self.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

Quote - In the town where I live, the speed limit is 25 mph. I find this limit ridiculously low, but have not succeeded in convincing the local authorities to increase it.

I still drive through town regularly ... I live there, after all. Having said that, I would not buy a car with a maximum speed of 25 mph to match the village speed limit. I frequently find myself on other roads, with higher allowable limits. Therefore I chose to purchase a vehicle with a broad range of capabilities, then use it in a manner appropriate to the surroundings.

Just because you can doesn't mean you always do. It's nice to have the capability, though.

By the way, I sometimes exceed 25 mph within city limits ... don't tell anyone.

Klebnor

Having said that there is an alternative to your issue with speed limits, you can always move to a town where they are higher, good luck with that.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

Quote - Here is a better solution to the issue, learn how to create textures your self.

i said the same thing on page one that's the best solution i would think

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

But you all are forgetting the fact that I have the right of superiority to judge you all. You all have been judged and found wanting. Because of my superior morals and genetics it falls to me to protect all you lesser people from yourselves and your base desires. I know you are morally bankrupt and cannot choose the only true path yourselves.

All that is left for you to do is buy my products and support me, shut up and follow along, and dont complain. If you do this, you will be alright. Of course you can never reach my exaulted position, you simply were not born with the proper genetics, but if you mind your P's and Q's, do as I say, you might asspire to be a worthy servant of the chosen.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Quote - But you all are forgetting the fact that I have the right of superiority to judge you all. You all have been judged and found wanting. Because of my superior morals and genetics it falls to me to protect all you lesser people from yourselves and your base desires. I know you are morally bankrupt and cannot choose the only true path yourselves.

All that is left for you to do is buy my products and support me, shut up and follow along, and dont complain. If you do this, you will be alright. Of course you can never reach my exaulted position, you simply were not born with the proper genetics, but if you mind your P's and Q's, do as I say, you might asspire to be a worthy servant of the chosen.

Whatever :b_rolleyes:

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

It is a well known fact that your kind cannot help but go into rut if you see any nudity, lying with anything in sight. You were born with this base imorality, you should welcome my guidance. I have the right.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Quote - It is a well known fact that your kind cannot help but go into rut if you see any nudity, lying with anything in sight. You were born with this base imorality, you should welcome my guidance. I have the right.

Apparently you are as misguided and uneducated in the ways of us immoral humans.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

Quote - It is a well known fact that your kind cannot help but go into rut if you see any nudity, lying with anything in sight. You were born with this base imorality, you should welcome my guidance. I have the right.

Who is you in real life? Idi Amin?

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

Stepson:

You magnificent b@st@rd. I have seen the light and will spend the remainder of my days singing your praises. I promise never to burn the toast again.

Hallelujah!

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Quote - In the town where I live, the speed limit is 25 mph. I find this limit ridiculously low, but have not succeeded in convincing the local authorities to increase it.

Quote - Just because you can doesn't mean you always do. It's nice to have the capability, though.

The speed limit is a function of the radar, if is able to work, and the presence of any police.

Stupidity also evolves!

Quote - > Quote - It is a well known fact that your kind cannot help but go into rut if you see any nudity, lying with anything in sight. You were born with this base imorality, you should welcome my guidance. I have the right.

Who is you in real life? Idi Amin?

I am a little red headed dwarf with one green eye and one brown eye, both not necessarily in my face. But of the master race mind you, with far superior intelect, morality, and genetics. Idi Amin is a distant cousin of mine.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Quote - Stepson:

You magnificent b@st@rd. I have seen the light and will spend the remainder of my days singing your praises. I promise never to burn the toast again.

Hallelujah!

Klebnor

As well you should, it is only my due. I shall use my superiority to guide you past the pitfalls of your poor immoral selves. And so in such an indeavor I have changed my texture converter to only convert textures of read headed dwarves, fully clothed, to safegaurd you from falling into rut over my magnificent body.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

If He made the product he has a right to say how it is to be used, I imagine he is more worried about Gods opinion of him than any artist.. I glad I found this out about him because I will definate be supporting him more...

"If the human body's obscene, complain to the manufacturer, not me." -- Larry Flynt

I'm pretty sure Yahweh considers necroposting to be an abomination.

"And, verily, let it be known, that if any one of you sees a post that has been dead for more than seven days, keepest thine hand from posting to it, lest thou become unclean."

-Renderositians 2:10

Quote - God made a mistake making man with a penis. They are only correcting this error.

:lol:

Man this is true. When I was younger the thing used to get me into so much trouble. Thank the lord I finally beat it into submission

:rolleyes:

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Wow, I am so pleased to see this on the first page again. ;)

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

watch it you lot...

or it's the Sean Connery in a loincloth picture!

....1962 Sean Connery, or Present Day?

One is a threat. The other is not :lol:

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

have you seen Zardoz? ;)

Hey, now, don't blame the man for the Creative Department's mistakes. When you're out there, makin' money, you have to do some weird crap in the name of art.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

And so I see my unworthy servants have returned. :lol:

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Quote - Hey, now, don't blame the man for the Creative Department's mistakes. When you're out there, makin' money, you have to do some weird crap in the name of art.

but...... that loincloth!!!

What's wrong with my loincloth? Trebeck, you sissy. I'm farting on your toupee as we speak. Now give me women's genitals for 50 and bugger off you ponce.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

....what?

you guys know how the paladins are...they reveal their own internal workings when they are raving at sin. remember ted haggard? mark foley? the list goes on. it's like the old, the fox smells it's own hole first. they rave about how bad we and the world are, but they are themselves reveling in the sin of it all, and the fact that it is evil to them makes it all the more nummy to them.
so these guys sell a crap product. the marketplace will sink them. (unless the sin brigade supports them perpetually. how likely is that?)

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

The problem isn't that TC2 sucks, it's that it doesn't. If it was a crappy program, someone else would create an alternative. The whole reason I began this thread lo! those many moons ago was to find out if there was anything else that does what TC2 does. Aside from some vague references to DPHoadley some day maybe working on something that might possibly do what I need, there's not much else out there. They've made a good product which has a slight flaw which most people can overlook or work around. I'm boycotting their self-righteous asses out of annoyance at their bowdlerizing, finger-waggling, and arrogant moral busybodying, not because they have a shit product.

Attached Link: Celebrity Jeopardy!

"*What?"*

http://www.hulu.com/watch/12768/saturday-night-live-celebrity-jeopardy---cruise-sandler-and-connery.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Attached Link: Celebrity Jeopardy!

"*What?"*

http://www.hulu.com/watch/12768/saturday-night-live-celebrity-jeopardy---cruise-sandler-and-connery.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Alternative to TC2?

Bash Fest Alert ...

Bash Fest Alert ...