I have just received an email from Smith Micro..
If I Purchase Poser 8 Now I get another of their software items i.e. Groboto for free..!
What about all of the people who purchased from day one..?

They get the Sr1 update for free =D

Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

They're out of luck as usual. It has always been the same, early adopters pay too much. I was an early adopter for Poser 6 (even pre-ordered it), only to find out that people who bought it a couple months later paid a lot less then I did. From then on I decided to wait.

If things are going bad or not I don't know. I think that SM is now really realizing how small the Poser user base really is and how few (compared to their other software applications) buy P8. I don't think the numerous 'p8 crashed such and so' help to get sales either.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

If you Pre-Ordered Poser 6 like I did, you also got extra content that others did not get. Or are you forgetting the Winter Queen for Jessi?

My question was regarding Poser 8.
And yes I have Pre ordered Poser in the past. And yes there have been extras for POSER like the Winter Queen (a truly amazing character)..
This time they are offering After, and it is separate software that runs independent from Poser..

No I'm not forgetting that...... she just wasn't worth it imo. I preferred to have paid less, something like half price as others did pay, that sounds much better to me then some extra content I will never use. But back then, I just didn't know any better. By now I know that 90% of the content that comes with Poser will never be touched by me, so I prefer paying less for Poser, instead of having content. With P8 I waited and I did get a really good deal.

Honestly, what happened before, doesn't matter. Poser is owned by a new company now and they use a different way of selling. Wait a couple of weeks and who knows what they will offer you then? We've seen full version at upgrade price, extra software to choose, $1.99 deals, so who knows what else will come? If you wait long enough you can buy P8 including the developing rights.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Quote - My question was regarding Poser 8.
And yes I have Pre ordered Poser in the past. And yes there have been extras for POSER like the Winter Queen (a truly amazing character)..
This time they are offering After, and it is separate software that runs independent from Poser..

And I was responding to Aeilkema not you. No offense, Noel, but software retailers have been doing promotional deals for as long as we've both been buying Poser. Bitching about them is just gettin' to be really tiresome.

I just bought Vue 7.5 Pro Studio last month and now I'm getting an email about Vue 8 and the free upgrades for people who bought Vue 7.5 THIS month. Seems by buying it on sale last month I missed the free upgrade. Should I bitch too? There will still be an upgrade price.

I think the old saying "No use crying over spilt milk" applies here.

These are tactics that have been used since the beginning of commercial software. SM isn't the first and certainly won't be the last ;o).

I'm with aeilkema on this one, but for a different reason: I tend not to be an early adopter because I want the bugs to be worked out before I buy the software, even if I means that everyone else gets to play first. I made that mistake with Vue 4 and won't make it again ;o).

As for the marketing tactics that SM uses, if they capitulated to every gripe that everyone had about when they bought, what they paid, who got what when, then they'd have to give away half the store. Consider this: your reward is that you got to play with it as soon as it came out (and with the problems with the release, that was NOT meant as an invitation to begin bashing the product). Buying anything is a gamble if you consider when and where you buy. You buy a fridge and sure enough, the next month another store in your area is gonna have it for half of what you paid for it (and it might even be the very same store). That mean you'll go back to the store you bought the fridge from and demand they give you half your money back? I assure you, they'd laugh you right out of the store ;o).

Laurie

Yep I got to play.. Crash,, bug, CRASH, another bug etc. etc. etc..

and also btw.. Who started this thread..?

I would like more than three body shaping morphs for the default characters.
Endomorph, mesomorph, and exomorph are merely shaping changes, not really what I consider an acceptable morph unless coupled with numerous other morphs.

Do the impossible, see the invisible

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

Touch the untouchable, break the unbreakable

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

Those who ride the bleeding edge of technology are often sacrificed on it.

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

Those who ride the bleeding edge of anything should wear protective gear.
And have one hell of an insurance provider.

Do the impossible, see the invisible

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

Touch the untouchable, break the unbreakable

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER

Quote -
and also btw.. Who started this thread..?

That's what I call amnesia...

Or was it a loaded question? You started it so we're not supposed to say anything nice about Poser or say it's idiotic to whine about this?

I bought a computer, the month after it was on sale for a substantially lower price. Tough luck. Thing is, if I hadn't bought it then, I wouldn't have had a computer in that month. Nobody forced me to buy it, as I'm sure nobody was forced to buy Poser 8 the day it came out.

I did. I'm such a lemming. I like new and shiny things.

And you know what? I've had FUN this last month or so, playing with my Poser 8. Yes it has crashed. Yes it has bugs. But ... oooh shiny...

I'm happy with my new toy! It doesn't get less fun because others can have it for less. And Aeilkema even got Poser 8 for 1.99.. now isn't THAT unfair?!

The Poser 8 figures have many morphs - not just 3

Early adaptors always pay more - that is the way our economy works. Not only with Smith Micro but also with Intel and even with every CD and/or DVD you buy
And what do you gain?
You get to play earlier with it as other people who prefer to wait and pay less.

I got it for FREE! I planned on getting the next version of poser pro. My only issue is now I'm torn between ease of gamma correction and IDL.

Quote - Yep I got to play.. Crash,, bug, CRASH, another bug etc. etc. etc..

and also btw.. Who started this thread..?

You started the thread NoelCan. The only reason I said that my comment wasn't an invitation to start bashing the product wasn't because I intended to do anything about anyone who did (I guess you either love Poser or ya hate it); I said it because I knew some of you would start bashing the product and that wasn't my intention...sigh.

Thanks for not disappointing me.

Laurie

I Happen to be one of those who love Poser.

I have been using Poser since version 2. What I stated was the fact that poser 8 has had a series of defects since day 1, if you cruise through the threads it is more than obvious there are issues with Poser 8.

I have stated in these threads twice before that " Smith Micro have done themselves a disservice by releasing Poser 8 without adequate beta testing."

NOW!! What do we see? an additional $80.00 program as an incentive to boost sales.

Sure others say that Poser 5 was worse than 8 Because it needed a total of five SR's. And sure that was Curious Labs. This is all history.

I love Poser as a program. But I cannot join forces with others, circle the wagons to defend poser at all costs.

I've been an early adopter every version since Poser5 & every time just after that they dropped the price or added in something else to sweeten the deal for new customers.

I've also been using Poser since Version 1 & EVERY version has had defects, every one of them has issues that required fixes, some of them have never been fixed & carry over to the next version even up to Poser8. That hasn't put me off buying the next version & it wont as long as I have a PC that can handle the next version.

ps, a lot of the people working on Poser8 worked on Poser5+, only the company name really changed.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

I skipped Poser 5 and went from 4 to 6 as an early adopter. That didn't stop me from picking up two more copies of Poser 5 back when CP gave it away fro free though! And for the record, Poser 5 only had 4 SR's. I said Poser 8 would have to have 5SR's to be "The Worst Release Ever" that you keep harping on.

Quote - And for the record, Poser 5 only had 4 SR's. I said Poser 8 would have to have 5SR's to be "The Worst Release Ever" that you keep harping on.

Like I said .. That's history.. Should developers NOT learn from previous mistakes.?

I purchased P8 as soon as it came out and have had sooo much fun with it. Had a few problems, but all fixed now.

I know some few have had problems with it. I'm sure everyone involved with 3D knows Noelcan has had many many many dubious problems by now, not that I believe a word he says. Been busted there Noelcan.

And I plan on purchasing P8 pro as soon as it comes out, and doubt I will have many problems with it.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Waaah !!! I want Groboto but.... heck, I already upgraded to Poser 8..... bah !

Missed out again !

Eternal Hobbyist

Nice to see that there are reputable people out there with out their own personal agenda to give reveiws on P8 Here's a few.

Poser By Design - Those other 3D Programs

Poser 8 Review | Graphics and 3-D | Macworld

Animation Software Review: SmithMicro's Poser 8 3D Modeling & Animation Software

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Quote - I have stated in these threads twice before that " Smith Micro have done themselves a disservice by releasing Poser 8 without adequate beta testing."

NOW!! What do we see? an additional $80.00 program as an incentive to boost sales.

Sure others say that Poser 5 was worse than 8 Because it needed a total of five SR's. And sure that was Curious Labs. This is all history.

I agree with you. As much as I love Poser, this release wasn't (and still isn't) ready for prime time. I'm not sure if P5 was a worse release at all. I know it was bad, but at least the team knew how to fix the bugs. If you see the number of different issues reported with P8 and then look at how a relatively small number of them was actually fixed in SR1, I'm not sure which release was worse. Add to that the fact that SR1 has caused a number of new bugs, that seem to be unrelated to the things they've fixed. Who knows how much SR's SM will need to get P8 stable? Although the number of SR's aren't showing if something is worse or better. It will be shown in the end result.

In the end P5 was stable, will P8 be stable in the end or will SM follow the policy that a lot of bugger companies do follow...... if you can't fix it, ignore it. We've already had reports of SM 'loosing' bug reports, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the policy SM will adopt. After all all these hours of support do cost money. Money that SM could save if they would expand (or train) the Poser beta team.

Come to think of it..... instead of me paying for Poser 8, Smith Micro should pay me by now for the numerous hours spent in contact with them, testing this release. If they paid me for every word I typed in bug reports, I would be rich by now.

Quote - I purchased P8 as soon as it came out and have had sooo much fun with it. Had a few problems, but all fixed now.

I know some few have had problems with it.

Count yourself lucky! P8 is running pretty well for me now to, but only because of work arounds, some suggested by SM support, some figured out by me and suggested to SM, which I noticed SM is now telling people until things are fixed. But P8 is having a few nasty bugs, even SM has confirmed that and it's not only a few experiencing them. If you don't have them it doesn't mean they aren't there, you may not encounter them. Not all of us use Poser in the same way and use the same features. If reported a good number of bugs and all except one was confirmed by tech support. The one uncormirmed one was acknowledged, but they couldn't reproduce it, so they're looking for more input..... which seems to be a problem. Many people experience bugs, but not everyone is reporting.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

OK... I get it,,, demean the person, ignore the topic.. Hope that they will get P***ed off and turn tail and run away.

Not gunna happen.. The issues ARE still there..

Take the time to review other opinions in these threads and try to demean them as well..

Perhaps I am the most persistent in My opinions, that is because the issues ARE still there..

Noel is right there ARE issues in Poser that need to be fixed, we've waited many years in some cases & gone through several versions without a fix.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Quote - Some more reveiws from some REPUTABLE sources:

Smith Micro Software Poser 8 review from TechRadar UK's expert reviews of 3D modelling software

GameDev.net - Product Review - Poser 8

REVIEW: Poser 8 - Digital Arts

One of the reviews is actually the same as the one you had previously. The GameDev.net reviewer is biased, he depends on good poser sales to sell his own P8 book. The Digital Arts review and is interesting and imo could be called reputable and note their very interesting conclusion:

Quote -

pros Lots of new content; new morphing tools; new interface/CMS; rendering and texture enhancements; Wardrobe Wizard.

cons More expensive than competition; some new features are complex without tutorials; some application crashes.

So, even your reputable source confirms what's been stated all alone...... application crashes and they're a con.

Then there's the pricing issue..... Poser is too expensive. Found the mac issue review end remark quite striking (though Digital Art mentioned it also as a con):

Quote -
There's a sting in the tale for existing Poser owners, though. An upgrade to Poser 8, even for owners of the most recent release, costs $130 (£80) – more than half the cost of buying the package new.

So, reputable sources state that the improvements are good, but it crashes and is too expensive.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Here's the list again so people can read them themselves:

Poser By Design - Those other 3D Programs

Poser 8 Review | Graphics and 3-D | Macworld

Animation Software Review: SmithMicro's Poser 8 3D Modeling & Animation Software

Smith Micro Software Poser 8 review from TechRadar UK's expert reviews of 3D modelling software

GameDev.net - Product Review - Poser 8

REVIEW: Poser 8 - Digital Arts

I have many more.

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Quote - ... If you wait long enough you can buy P8 including the developing rights.

I'm sure one could now, for the right price. Certainly above my budget, tho'... :laugh:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

magazine reviews are not that reliable. simple economics, piss off the product vendor/creator/developer with poor reviews, lose their advertising = economic suicide.
at the least, the company will never let them have a product to review again = less interesting editorial = less readers= less circulation > magazine dies.

only reviews worth reading are those by actual everday users, on public forums.

Look Noel, I'm not saying that there aren't issues. What I am saying is I'm tired of you posting the same issues over and over and OVER again. We get it. Ok? We don't need a new bitch thread every week.

And Stepson, spamming a thread with basically the same post over and over again is against the TOS last time I checked. We get it, you have some reviews you want us to read. One post was quite enough thank you.

I wouldn't trust a magazine review as far as I could throw the reviewer, I've bought things in the past after reading how wonderful they are in a magazine only to find out later they're rubbish & the magazine were paid to print a good review.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Hey, stepson, you're looking like the one with the agenda here. If some people are having problems with Poser 8, a hundred people having no problems doesn't negate the opinions of those who are. Even Bagginbill has stated that the program has glitches. Is he wrong? Someone saying that they are ped off about poser 8 isn't a personal attack on you so give it a rest why don't you.***
**
You can disagree with the OP without accusing the guy of having an agenda. Does he work for Daz? Do you know? Maybe he is just trying to destroy Smith Micro for his own sinister reasons. Or, maybe he's just upset that he spent his money on something that isn't working for him very well and he just wants to vent here where he has friends. Even I can't understand why he could have so many singular issues with Poser 8 but... agenda? Are you kidding? This isn't health care reform on Capital Hill, Town Hall squabbles, Fox News or MSNBC. It's just Poser, nothing more. So, lighten up.******

** **

And before anyone gets upset, The topics I used were for the sake of demonstration alone and were not meant to suggest anything other than real-world issues. Nor were they meant to propose a particular political belief as concerning the above mentioned real-world issues. Consult your physician before handling this post. This post does not protect against HIV or other sexually transmitted diseases. result of this post are not typical and may vary.

oh, you jus can't help but step over the line, can you? OK. Lets get JenX involved now. LostinSpaceman tried to warn you but you just couldn't listen, could you.

Hate to break it to you, but the reviews at Amazon are not much more reliable than magazine reviews. One might argue they're even worse, because you don't know who really wrote them and why. Any reviews in any venue that is directly involved in making money on the product being reviewed is suspect.

Also, quoting one review from any source doesn't prove anything that isn't already obvious. Take any cruddy application and you'll certainly find at least one person who is satisfied with it.

(I'm not bashing Poser 8 but rather the comments made by stepson)

sits in the rafters watching munching popcorn by the handful....
aah Shall we their fond pageant see?
Lord, what fools these mortals be!

stepson, I just reported you. You're trolling now. You cannot call anyone emotionally unstable here or anywhere without evidential proof. By saying this you have not only violated the TOS here but you have violated the law. The original poster now has the ability to sue you for Defamation of Character. Really man, is it really worth it? You're playing stupid kid games that will get you in serious, adult trouble.

You need to stop before you get banned. I know people moan on and on about this topic but you are only making this worse for you. If you get thrown off R'osity, the people you don't like will still be here, moaning on and on. There is nothing you can say or do that is going to change this so don't go off and damage yourself.

Quote - sits in the rafters watching munching popcorn by the handful....
aah Shall we their fond pageant see?
Lord, what fools these mortals be!

hey kaibach where'd you pinch that quote from? it's a good one. :D

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Shall we their fond pageant see?
Lord, what fools these mortals be!

***A Midsummer Nights Dream Act 3, scene 2, 114–115

Thanks mate, I'll have to read that again some time, it's been a long time since I last read any shakespeare. :D

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

wonders when this thread will be locked

Hi mom!

And there are a couple of things that are odd here.

Aielkema.. didn't you get Poser 8 for $1.99? you must have a very low wage if SM should pay you for bashing their program then.
Stepson.. I think we got your point :)
NoelCan.. You're beginning to sound like a record stuck in the same groove. You have problems with Poser 8. We got that. Sucks to be you.

Poser 8 has got bugs. No one is denying that. It's still heaps better than Poser 5 EVER was, even after all the SRs... As it should be, it's three versions newer. But don't say it wasn't tested because THAT is lying and a defamation of all the hardworking people who DID test it!

Doran.. Ooooh Ever heard the Weird Al song "Sue You"? You should. It's fun. If you know that concept.

Now you're attacking people who haven't even bothered you yet.

as a side note, things aren't going bad at smith micro AFAIK, but the town they're in is having problems. according to a local newspaper, it never recovered from the Loma Prieta earthquake in the way that neighbouring santa cruz has done.

however, nobody has ever brought a legal action as the result of a product or forum message here IIRC. it's always settled by the admins before that happens. I ain't a lawyer.

No, it's not about a product but the references of someone being unbalanced or emotionally unstable. Those words are defamatory whether the person is being named or referred to within the context of direct rebuttal.

I agree, i wish they'd be nicer in their discourse, but sometimes forum users have a bad day and type messages that they wish they'd never done. I know I've done it a few times.

Oh, Miss Nancy, you're probably one of the most pleasant people on this site and you are always helpful :)

Well, that's it for me. Now that this has been resolved by the Admin, I see no reason for me to remain. Have a good evening everyone :) I'm off to get some sea food! YUM!

Ok, let's get back on topic, shall we?

Also, for the record, if you cannot get ahold of one mod (myself included), please contact another mod listed above (bantha and wheatpenny). I have been offline most of today, and will be busy finishing out the Halloween contest, and may not respond as fast as my co-mods will be able to. I apologize for those who have contacted me with no response yet, I thought I'd post in this thread to let you all know, rather than make you all wait.

Jeni

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Poser, in all of its versions is STILL My #1 program. I am just disappointed that It is so buggy.
I have sent Smith Micro every item they have requested, with one exception i.e. scene files containing commercial files..

It is My most sincere wish that Smith Micro can fix these issues and continue to develop Poser as a truly amazing software package..

With regard to the personal jibes:- "If only GOD the gift could gi us. To see oursels as others see us.."

Quote - I have just received an email from Smith Micro..
If I Purchase Poser 8 Now I get another of their software items i.e. Groboto for free..!
What about all of the people who purchased from day one..?

When SM allowed DAZ to do their Poser 8 promo ($50 off the intro $199 price) I entered a service request to SM marketing, and got a $50 CP coupon.

I did the same thing when they dropped the price on Anime Studio Debuit, and got a $20 coupon.

They do do "price match" depending on the relative dates.

Thank you wcbncal.. This is precisely the information I was seeking when I started this thread..

I'm using Poser 6 now, I'm happy with it. Most of the changes from what I hear in Posers 7 & 8 were more content, a few extra shader options, and a few extension additions. I think people who early adopt (habitually) do pay way too much, and they kinda mess it up for the rest of us to - because the available new (free and pay) content that works well - or just plain WORKS - with whatever version you CURRENTLY have quickly shrinks and soon disappears because everybody who has money to flush down the crapper jumps on the trendy bandwagon - leaving the limited income guys using older versions in a clinch and basically screwed. Thank God most Poser 4 content will work fine on 6 will a little codjolling, but there's no gaurantee that Smith Micro (who in my opinion trashed Content Paradise to smithereens) won't go all dork on us and suddenly pull a new version of Poser out of there corporate butts that won't be able to use ANY past Poser content, and the more frequently people snap up new versions fresh off the drawing board because they have less patience than someone who's gotta pee real bad, the closer that nightmare day might creep upon the rest of us who have enough grey matter to know better - SNAPPITTY SNAP SNAP bros and sisses!!!!
Wait - and you'll pay less and preserve the available content base - snap it up quick - and you have more bugs to deal with - and you'll be a party pooper for everybody else. Case closed.
I can remember a time when Content Paradise, 3DCommune, and RUNTIMEDNA were FAR more community based, and far less profit margin. I think SHARECG is one of the last true community based CGI sites out there, but who knows how long it'll be until it goes the way of the others, and turns into a dump where the freebies suck and become far fewer, you have to give your life story to register, and the community memberships shrink to only a fraction of what they were. Now THERE'S the elephant in the room that nobody likes to talk about!!!

OK, firstly if you could separate your post in to paragraphs next time that would be nice. I have been here for a long time. Though it states that I have been a member since 2000, I have actually been here much longer and had to create a new account. I disagree with you on the whole community issue, at least as it concerns R'osity. I think, if you go over to Daz's forums you'll see that they are a community as well. People talking about the pertinent issues with each other and together attempting to resolve said issues, how is that not community?

Another thing, These companies are going to move forward no matter what. Nobody is going to support Poser 6 forever. The business market fluctuates like a nightmare, anyway. CG is a business, it will leave you in the dust, eventually. These people at Smith Micro had new ideas and they intended on implementing them. they did this before any point of sale. Poser 8 was going to happen. They weren't just going to make it and then sit on it. They, like any other business, are going to push it, and push it even to the point of pushing it down our throats because if they don't they lose money. Poser 8 was going to happen and become the priority over all other versions.

Now, I do agree with you on several points. The free items used to be better because I think that designers wanted to show others what they could do. Now it seems that the free stuff sections is for the people that have discovered the wonder of Photoshop. I mean, how many texture packs can be made before someone is duplicating another's work. There are those who are creating very nice stuff like 3-D-C and his sci fi corridor kits. But, how many sexy Vicky poses can you possibly have. There are hardly any poses for mike4 and of those for Vicky4, there almost all seductive. It doesn't speak well of Renderosity to have this V4 fetishism occurring. The market is flooded with this sort of thing while other, more interesting concepts are being ignored.

Now the other side of this argument is that sex sells. the problem is that a lot of the people who have argued that to ME in the past haven't tried to sell anything else but sex, so how would they even know what sells. There is some phenomenal talent out there being wasted on sex poses and corsetry. So, is the creativity in the community stalled? I think so. However, as long as it is a community there is a chance that things will change for the better. With all of this said, Smith Micro and Poser 8 has nothing to do with the absence of community. If the community here has been affected, then it is a reality that only we can be held accountable for. We are the community and it seems that, though difficulties sometimes occur, we are still speaking to one another. Let's just all try to do it with a little common respect.

Quote - I'm using Poser 6 now, I'm happy with it. Most of the changes from what I hear in Posers 7 & 8 were more content, a few extra shader options, and a few extension additions.

Not sure what your sources are, but the changes in Poser 8 are far more than that. Lighting enhancements, rigging enhancements, Wardrobe Wizard built in, Dependent Parameters editor, revised library/content system, customizable interface, and more.

Quote - I think people who early adopt (habitually) do pay way too much, and they kinda mess it up for the rest of us to - because the available new (free and pay) content that works well - or just plain WORKS - with whatever version you CURRENTLY have quickly shrinks and soon disappears because everybody who has money to flush down the crapper jumps on the trendy bandwagon - leaving the limited income guys using older versions in a clinch and basically screwed.

I'm a bit confused here. Older content works just fine in the newer versions ... and if it doesn't it's not that hard to change it so that it does work.

As for newer content not working in OLDER versions, I can't think of ANY program that is "forward compatible" ... how could they be? Can you open files created in Photoshop CS4 in Photoshop 5.5 which was released 10 years ago? Or can you open a file created in Word 2007 in Word 97? I don't think so.

The newer content is created to take advantage of the newer features in the software - and from Poser 4 to Poser 7 the main difference was in materials. With Poser 8 there are new rigging features that you might eventually see in newer content. But because it takes time to provide support for "legacy" versions of Poser, it becomes less and less appealing to support older versions. It's not practical do so if you want to keep the content free or affordable for the users.

Quote - Thank God most Poser 4 content will work fine on 6 will a little codjolling, but there's no gaurantee that Smith Micro (who in my opinion trashed Content Paradise to smithereens) won't go all dork on us and suddenly pull a new version of Poser out of there corporate butts that won't be able to use ANY past Poser content, and the more frequently people snap up new versions fresh off the drawing board because they have less patience than someone who's gotta pee real bad, the closer that nightmare day might creep upon the rest of us who have enough grey matter to know better - SNAPPITTY SNAP SNAP bros and sisses!!!!

So what you're saying is that there should be no advances in the software at all so that it will continue to support the features found in Poser 4, which was released ten years ago?

Poser 4 content will still work in Poser 8 with a little codjoling - but when going the OTHER way and getting newer content to work in Poser 4, you're also talking having to deal with the memory limitations that Poser 4 had. So it's becoming a bit unreasonable to expect that today's content will still work in Poser 4 ... higher resolution meshes, higher resolution textures, and so on are getting to be too much for Poser 4 to handle. And truthfully, the quality of content 10 years ago is nowhere near the quality of today's content, a lot of that having to do with the fact that the newer versions have more POWER.

Quote - Wait - and you'll pay less and preserve the available content base

How does waiting for a service release preserve the available content base?

Quote - snap it up quick - and you have more bugs to deal with - and you'll be a party pooper for everybody else. Case closed.

I don't mind dealing with bugs. Pretty much every software program I've purchased has them initially, Poser is no different in that regard.

Well put. Every point a solid truth. I bought Poser 8 for the speed. For me, rendering power and speed is everything. Before, It was a procedure of create in Poser and export to Carrara. I don't have to do that any longer. I can crank out my projects much faster now, even when Poser 8 screws something up and I have to fix the issue, the project time spent is still much quicker than before. My only issue with Poser 8 is the unrendered bucket artifact bug that occurs randomly during the animation process. However, it is easy to clean up post render.

Also, if you go in to the Market Place here you will see that the requirements listed for Poser items are usually Poser 5 and up. So I don't understand what unavailability Mugsey is speaking of. If you are using Poser 6 you are only being deprived of the Poser 8 core items.

Quote - I think SHARECG is one of the last true community based CGI sites out there, but who knows how long it'll be until it goes the way of the others, and turns into a dump where the freebies suck and become far fewer....

ShareCG is a true community? Since when?

Does ShareCG have forums? That's an honest question - I don't know...lol.

Of course I can go over and look for myself ;o).

edit: why yes, yes it does. Shows ya how much I get around...lol.

Laurie

Yes it does and when last I checked they were deader than a graveyard on Halloween!

Smith Micro does try to get as much out of its loyal user base as it can. When the Anime Studio Pro release came out the were asking $160 for new purchases "limited time" deal. They were asking $120 for upgrades for previous Pro users. I still haven't upgraded.

I not sure if I should upgrade to 8 or wait til Pro II gets released.

Quote -
I made that mistake with Vue 4 and won't make it again ;o).

Yeah, no doubt. I remember that, since I was right up there too, ordering it the day it was released, I think.
There were at least 22 incremental update patches to Vue 4 over the next half a year or so. 22!
And you know, they never did get everything fixed. That's where I totally lost interest in Vue, and apparently from all I've read elsewhere, e-on has become somewhat infamous for really buggy software that never gets fixed.
I guess once your software has been used in a few really high profile big screen successful movies, you become more important than you actually are, and customers no longer matter. From all I've read, Vue buyers these days are basically beta testers, paying thousands for broken versions that might get fixed for the next release, which they have to pay for if they want it...

Yeah, I know, this is Poser 8 thread, but I really don't have anything to say about that. ;-)

From what I have been reading Poser 8 is still pretty buggy so I guess there is no reason not to wait for Poser Pro II to be released and decide on upgrading then.

Sometimes good things come to those who wait. Because I am poor as well as cheap I had to wait on upgrading from Poser 5 to Poser 6. And I was glad I'd done so too because of the deal I got.So me personally I'll probably wait until Poser 15 is out and they're selling Poser 8 for 30.00 bucks or so too, before upgrading to it. Of course this then means I'm always "behind the times" but thats a good thing too. It's forced me to find new ways of doing things to achieve the same results others get, like doing lighting in Photoshop etc..... :lol:

Thanks for the list too by the way stepson, I'll be sure to read those before I do upgrade if ever.....

"The Blood is the life!"

Yeah, its always good to stay 7 versions behind the current to achieve the greatest possible price break.

Why not? You're not missing much with Poser at all. Going from Poser 4 to 5 was mind blowing..... almost something completely new, worth the money (after all the bugs were worked out). Going from 5 to 6 wasn't a full upgrade, more like Pose 5.5. Going from P6 to P7 still puzzles me..... hardly anything new at all, more like a service release.... Poser 5.6. Going from P7 to P8 , even if you combine all the 'new' features, couldn't be called a full new version at all, it's again an in between 0.5 release. As far as I see it....... going from Poser 5 to Poser 8 is really going from Poser 5 to Poser 6 and worth the money.

In the case of Poser it's worth skipping a few versions, you will not really miss out that much if you skip a version or two. I you can get by with what you have, then waiting is a good option.

But don't wait to long with upgrading..... Poser's user base is decreasing, since the competition is giving more bang for your money. Oh, wait, they're not asking any money for it at all..... If Poser keeps on putting out these mediocre releases, then there may not be a large enough user base left to support a new half done version.

Personally I'm done with buying half baked Poser releases, from now on I'll stick to P8, pass the next version(s) and keep an eye on D/S, a much more interesting development. I wasn't even planning on getting P8, but the offer made was too good to pass. But as with previous releases it left me kind of unimpressed. The WOW P5 release feeling has long gone and never came back with releases that followed.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Heh the "Wow Poser 5" feeling was very quickly overpowered by the "OMG WHAT A BUGGY PoS" - Poser 5 was, regardless )or perhaps because of...) all the new features close to useless most of the time for so many people that the recent Poser 8 problems seems insignificant.

PERSONALLY I must have some sort of Poser Guardian Angel sitting on my shoulder, because I've never had any major problems with new versions - but to say that nothing happened since Poser 5 tells me.. well... no. I won't go there.

WHY is it so hard to believe/understand that Poser 8 is for a great part a TOTAL CORE REWRITE? This is why it can be FASTER than its predecessors. This is why the renderer is faster. This is why the library has changed. It's because, for once, it is a REWRITE, not just clamping new things on the old Poser 4 engine.

So naturally there will be a relatively larger amount of bugs in this release. It's like a new program.

And yes. Some people have big problems with Poser 8. I feel sorry for them. But the majority of users do NOT have a lot of problems. We're just not as vocal about it - quite naturally. The people who have problems, seek out forums for a solution. The ones who does not have problems are busy making pictures with their new toy instead.

So why am I here so much you may ask? Well because I'm here while Poser is rendering. And here during work hours where I can get online from my trains but not play with Poser (My netbook is good but not really suited for Poser although it runs on it - besides... I'm supposed to be checking tickets and whatnot when at work L) But I'm not here because my Poser 8 doesn't work. Because.. it does!

Quote - Why not? You're not missing much with Poser at all. Going from Poser 4 to 5 was mind blowing..... almost something completely new, worth the money (after all the bugs were worked out). Going from 5 to 6 wasn't a full upgrade, more like Pose 5.5. Going from P6 to P7 still puzzles me..... hardly anything new at all, more like a service release.... Poser 5.6. Going from P7 to P8 , even if you combine all the 'new' features, couldn't be called a full new version at all, it's again an in between 0.5 release. As far as I see it....... going from Poser 5 to Poser 8 is really going from Poser 5 to Poser 6 and worth the money.

In the case of Poser it's worth skipping a few versions, you will not really miss out that much if you skip a version or two. I you can get by with what you have, then waiting is a good option.

But don't wait to long with upgrading..... Poser's user base is decreasing, since the competition is giving more bang for your money. Oh, wait, they're not asking any money for it at all..... If Poser keeps on putting out these mediocre releases, then there may not be a large enough user base left to support a new half done version.

Personally I'm done with buying half baked Poser releases, from now on I'll stick to P8, pass the next version(s) and keep an eye on D/S, a much more interesting development. I wasn't even planning on getting P8, but the offer made was too good to pass. But as with previous releases it left me kind of unimpressed. The WOW P5 release feeling has long gone and never came back with releases that followed.

I am not feeling that way about Poser.. There is a high level of disappointment Regarding overall quality. the frequency of crashes has not been rectified by SR1. Rendering is erratic at best..
But, Poser is all that I have. I have tried the free software that a lot of people rave about but I have not had enough patience to learn the complexities.

If only Poser and Painter had not been sold by Fractal Designs. If these two programs were merged. This person would have been a very happy little camper.

Poser 8 brought Indirect Lighting, new library system, improved rendertimes, new user interface, new figures, new rigging system and multiple falloff zones for joints, morphing tool can be used over multiple bodyparts, dependent parameters, inverse square falloff for lights, better plugin support, tone mapping, better OpenGL support and other improvements. All features requested by the community for a long time.
This is a major new version of Poser and much more than a glorified service release.

Poser 1 and 2 were released by Fractal Design in the 90s. It did not even include transparency support and was no more than a tool for (hand) drawing. It still can be used as such, but has grown into much more when it added animation, figure rigging and much more realistic rendering,

When I bought Poser 4 Pro - which some mention as the most stable release of Poser - I deinstalled it after a few weeks and went back to Poser 4 because it trashed my saved files continuously. Poser 4 never had that problem. Half a year later I bought a new PC and tried Poser 4 Pro again and never had any problems of this kind at all anymore. Was it a problem with Poser or with my old machine?
I really have no idea.

I would say that with Poser 8, it finally seems on track towards becoming something far better than it ever was before, but it's not there yet. Not even close, IMO, but it's good to see they're at least heading in the direction they should have headed in about 5 years ago.

Not the library though. I guess I'm in the minority, but certainly not the only one who thinks they took the wrong path there. I mean, come on - having to install Flash for IE to be able to use a very important feature in Poser? You can't load figures or anything else any other way, so I suppose that counts as a game-killing thing there if you don't have Flash installed.

Why not something more typical? Max, Softimage, Maya, and Lightwave people seem to have no problems with that whole content directory scheme and it's part of the program, and doesn't depend on some other program being installed. And while Poser's whole Runtime scheme is similar to those program's content schemes, the other programs can switch between content directories just fine, and quickly, but without the added complications of adding Flash into the mix.
Well, OK, maybe some of the C++2005 redistributables or other similar things have to be there in the system, but those are included in the installers for the most part, if not already installed. Just like most games will install DirectX along with the game.

And the whole premise... sure get your Poser stuff into your scene quicker, but it still takes 20 times longer to set up a scene when you factor in dicking around with the lights for an hour to get something good, poor translation tools, and no prop grouping and things like that, not to mention that even though P8 renders faster, it's still ridiculously slow in comparison to all other 3d apps for what it does.

So I hope to see that in the future they'll start considering some of these other things, as well as listen to what some of the people are saying.

You know I think I am going to wait on Poser Pro 2 and see if they work out that file structure problem. If not I will stick with Poser Pro and use Carrara or Lightwave for rendering.

There are many things I can think of which would improve Poser for me. Many wishes I had in the past have been implemented in this and in previous versions. And no doubt that the next version of Poser will implement more things I would like to see.

Using a multi-platform building environment like flex for writing (part of) your application is always a trade-off. On one hand you lose control over part of the code you deliver but on the other hand you gain functionality with less effort meaning lower development costs. What new functionality this will bring and whether or not it is worth it, will be seen in the future.
But with the new additional python support 3rd party tools like XL, P3dO or PzDB can offer an even more integrated alternative for Posers library. I have no doubt that that will happen.

I guess its wait and see...

While getting a product before everyone else is fun, the "early adopters" are usually the ones who get burned or laughed at. Has everyone forgotten about the iPhone? People lined up outside stores to buy it! Yet a few months later, Apple increased the iPhone's memory, gave it better wireless coverage and dropped the price.

A similar issue happened with Poser: a little while after P5 came out, Amazon put it on sale for $99. Sure, people had to wait months (or maybe a year) after it first came out, but $99 was over half off the normal price.

Plus, there are numerous stories, especially about Microsoft and Windows, recommending that people wait until SR1 or SR2 to make sure most of the bugs are fixed.

I'm not saying people shouldn't buy a product when it first comes out, but be watchful for extra sales promotions later on. Do you really need Poser 8 right now? Or can you wait until SR2 is merged into the installer or until Smith Micro or Amazon runs a sale?

As for magazine reviews, I agree that I don't fully trust them either. Like some of the posters have said, magazines need advertising revenue to survive, so will they really risk angering someone like Smith Micro or Adobe by giving their software a bad review?
Okay, maybe some magazines have a "neutral" policy and tell their advertisers that software might be given a poor review, but in this economy, I wonder how many magazines bend this rule just so advertisers will continue advertising.

I'm also suspicious of 3D World's fairly good review of Poser 8 when there's a full-page ad for Smith Micro/ Poser 8 a few pages before the review. I'm not saying the ad influenced the reviewer, but if I were the editor, I would make sure there were no ads from Smith Micro in that issue just to make sure readers don't get suspicious.

The only magazine reviews I trust are from Consumer Reports: they don't run ads at all, so there's not even a hint that they're being influenced by advertisers.

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

Quote - I'm also suspicious of 3D World's fairly good review of Poser 8 when there's a full-page ad for Smith Micro/ Poser 8 a few pages before the review. I'm not saying the ad influenced the reviewer, but if I were the editor, I would make sure there were no ads from Smith Micro in that issue just to make sure readers don't get suspicious.

3D World is probably the worst with it comes to believability. They purposely use people who directly benefit from the software to write the review for it. I quite buying the magazine when I read a review and the reviewer was the same person who wrote the tutorial book for the software. His sales of his book is directly tied to how well the software sales. I wrote 3D Magazine questioning this and their reply was that they needed someone who knew the software to write the review.

The same is the issue with most of the reviews pointed to in this thread. Some of the writer do depend on good Poser 8 sales, to sell their own P8 related items.

Also when you do compare some of these reviews it looks like they've used a fact sheet or blue print to write them. They're very similar and one wonders if the reviewer has even actually used the application. Not the case with all them, some seem very genuine, but others are questionable.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I'm highly suspicious of any software review that seems all happy happy joy joy.
I want to know what's wrong with it, and that's what I look for first. If I don't find any, I immediately write it off as slanted and unrealistic. All software has problems and if the reviewer didn't mention it, he either didn't want to for whatever reason, or he didn't test it enough to be qualified to write a review, IMO.

I do the same when I buy hardware at Newegg, too. I first read all the negative reviews and work my way up to the positive.

Quote - Using a multi-platform building environment like flex for writing (part of) your application is always a trade-off. On one hand you lose control over part of the code you deliver but on the other hand you gain functionality with less effort meaning lower development costs. What new functionality this will bring and whether or not it is worth it, will be seen in the future.

Really, the new Poser core rewrite was done with Flex? I thought that Flex was supposed to be
a more advanced/replacement of the Flash platform.

Just the library, from what I understand.

Apparantly I've gotten a lot of responses FROM "early adopters". Those with ruffled feathers sqwauk the loudest, and I've done my share of sqwauking myself though - this forum thread not withstanding, and Yes CGShare has forums.

My point is this. Remember when you spent about $600.00 or more on 3D content for Poser 4 and the propack a few years ago? Wouldn't it be really really swell if you could keep on using that content that you loved and paid so much for in future versions of Poser indefinitely?
(by the way - "HEY - LOOK MA - I'M USING REAL LIVE PARAGRAPHS - WOO HOOOO!!!")

Let's talk about Poser itself. Brand new it runs about $250.00. That's pretty cheap for Poser because I can remember when the old Poser Pro Pack came out during the Metacreations / Curious Labs transition - and I saw it back then for about TWICE that much because times were better and Poser was a cutting edge thing! My copy was a gift - or I never could have gotten it. I was amazed that folks could afford it THEN!

Generally you won't spend that much unless your a die hard hobbyist or a professional CGI artist, I got Poser 6 for $99.00 on sale - and I had to pinch pennies to pull THAT off.

Let's say that you spent $400.00 on Poser Pro, and another $600.00 on content. Hmmm - $1000.00 investment. Over the years - NATURALLY - Poser capabilities increase with new versions. Your original copy of Poser is now officially lame, and content that will work with the figures that you have begins to shrink. Where once stuff for "Vicky 2" was all over the net - now, the old sites you went to for content are either dead, or they've had a change of venue or format.

Where once you saw Vicky 2 stuff all over the place - now you see maybe a lame pair of boots or an underwear texture every third blue moon. The NEW figures that are out (Vick 4.2, Mike 4, Aiko 4, etc.), are not only costly in and of themselves as far as disposeable income is concerned - but as a sneaky below the belt gimmick - NOW you have to buy extra "Head And Body Morph Packs" to make the figures complete and to give them halfway decent morph channels. That means that your paying about 30% more per figure than you did for "Vicky 2".

So - one day Smith Micro, or WHOMEVER will own the franchise, comes out with Poser 9 or P10.

They've made the sudden decision that; "Hey - guess what kids" - this version of Poser can't use PZ2, .lgt, .mt6, PZ3, PPP, CR2, HR2, FC2, or Standard Poser Prop Files like previous versions. It only uses SMITH MICRO figures and proprietary file formats now, and those will cost you about twice as much as your original Poser stuff! We got the idea to screw you that way because Poser was just suuuccchhh a hot seller, we felt that it was time to "take it to new directions ( corporate babble for "bleed you dry")!

Hey, guess what?...You just crapped out a $600.00 floater! THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING! The FASTER that you snatch up new versions - the more you encourage slimy monkey suits to pull a fast one on you, and the quicker the expensive software that you have turns into redundant white noise. I've seen it happen - you have to - and it ain't a pretty thing! I hate to play "CGI NOSTRADAMUS" here - but I will be posting a big "I TOLD YOU SO" when the catch 22 hit's the crater.

Quote - Heh the "Wow Poser 5" feeling was very quickly overpowered by the "OMG WHAT A BUGGY PoS" - Poser 5 was, regardless )or perhaps because of...) all the new features close to useless most of the time for so many people that the recent Poser 8 problems seems insignificant.

PERSONALLY I must have some sort of Poser Guardian Angel sitting on my shoulder, because I've never had any major problems with new versions - but to say that nothing happened since Poser 5 tells me.. well... no. I won't go there.

WHY is it so hard to believe/understand that Poser 8 is for a great part a TOTAL CORE REWRITE? This is why it can be FASTER than its predecessors. This is why the renderer is faster. This is why the library has changed. It's because, for once, it is a REWRITE, not just clamping new things on the old Poser 4 engine.

So naturally there will be a relatively larger amount of bugs in this release. It's like a new program.

And yes. Some people have big problems with Poser 8. I feel sorry for them. But the majority of users do NOT have a lot of problems. We're just not as vocal about it - quite naturally. The people who have problems, seek out forums for a solution. The ones who does not have problems are busy making pictures with their new toy instead.

So why am I here so much you may ask? Well because I'm here while Poser is rendering. And here during work hours where I can get online from my trains but not play with Poser (My netbook is good but not really suited for Poser although it runs on it - besides... I'm supposed to be checking tickets and whatnot when at work L) But I'm not here because my Poser 8 doesn't work. Because.. it does!

Trekkie Girl said "This is why the library has changed". I hope that she's not referring to the early signs of the evolving redundancy of OUR libraries (content) that we've spent YEARS building.

In spite of the fact that content from ten years ago STILL WORKS in Poser 8 (sorry, but I don't see the big deal here ...) I can't think of much content from ten years ago that I would WANT to still use, to be honest. The quality of the content from ten years ago just doesn't cut it.

Evolving redundancy? Just because Poser 8 can't use RSR files and BUM files? Otherwise, the content still works you know. There just isn't a one-click solution for it like people have come to expect.

And $600 on content? I've spent at least ten times that over the years. Thing is I have taken the time to learn how to modify or create my own. So I don't have to worry about obsolescence. 8-)

Considering the competition from DAZ STUDIO - and how DS can use POSER FORMAT files, that's even more of a motivation for Smith Micro to give Poser an entirely new file format face lift - and pull the rug out from under everybody!

Yeah, so true.
I'm also pretty sure most of them are Illuminati as well.

Qoute: "Evolving redundancy? Just because Poser 8 can't use RSR files and BUM files? Otherwise, the content still works you know. There just isn't a one-click solution for it like people have come to expect." Unqoute. Also, QOUTE: " And $600 on content? I've spent at least ten times that over the years. Thing is I have taken the time to learn how to modify or create my own. So I don't have to worry about obsolescence. 8-)"

YEEeeeeeessss - "like people have COME TO EXPECT". Hmmmmm - how much did they PAY to be able to "EXPECT" that the first time around? Incase you've missed a few CNN reports - LIFE IS TERRIBLY SHORT! I don't want to have to go through a dozen more operations to get my stuff to work. I bought it - I want to keep it - and I don't like to be forced through atrician to "clean out my closet".

QOUTE: "I can't think of much content from ten years ago that I would WANT to still use, to be honest. The quality of the content from ten years ago just doesn't cut it." Unqoute.

NEWSFLASH, in 1999, CGI for the most part SUCKED!,I'm not even sure if Poser as we know it even EXISTED in 1999, but the content from as recent as 2002 / 2003 is what I'M talking about. BUT, some people like nostalgia, some people like retro, and some people like what's comfortable and familiar. If you pay big bucks for something - you should get a product with STAYING POWER! Content especially. You may not like older content - but other people do. Hell - the Poser 4 male - otherwise known as "The Dork", has a freaking cult following in CGI circles!

What's wrong Mikey? did I poop in your cheerios with my little rant?
Let me guess - early adopter - LMAO.

Quote - Qoute: "Evolving redundancy? Just because Poser 8 can't use RSR files and BUM files? Otherwise, the content still works you know. There just isn't a one-click solution for it like people have come to expect." Unqoute. Also, QOUTE: " And $600 on content? I've spent at least ten times that over the years. Thing is I have taken the time to learn how to modify or create my own. So I don't have to worry about obsolescence. 8-)"

YEEeeeeeessss - "like people have COME TO EXPECT". Hmmmmm - how much did they PAY to be able to "EXPECT" that the first time around? Incase you've missed a few CNN reports - LIFE IS TERRIBLY SHORT! I don't want to have to go through a dozen more operations to get my stuff to work. I bought it - I want to keep it - and I don't like to be forced through atrician to "clean out my closet".

QOUTE: "I can't think of much content from ten years ago that I would WANT to still use, to be honest. The quality of the content from ten years ago just doesn't cut it." Unqoute.

NEWSFLASH, in 1999, CGI for the most part SUCKED!,I'm not even sure if Poser as we know it even EXISTED in 1999, but the content from as recent as 2002 / 2003 is what I'M talking about. BUT, some people like nostalgia, some people like retro, and some people like what's comfortable and familiar. If you pay big bucks for something - you should get a product with STAYING POWER! Content especially. You may not like older content - but other people do. Hell - the Poser 4 male - otherwise known as "The Dork", has a freaking cult following in CGI circles!

Yes, Poser existed in 1999. Poser 1 was released around 1994/95. Poser 4 was released in 1999. So "The Dork" was created in an era where you now say the quality sucked.

I would also like to say that back then, in 1999, people DID NOT expect everything to work with a single click. They made their own morphs. They made their own clothes. They figured out the innovations that people now take for granted. That was the days when people shared information in learning how to make the changes themselves.

For 2002/2003, you are talking the millenium 3 figures. And as far as I know they still work in Poser 8. So I honestly do not understand why you are on such a rant!

Quote - What's wrong Mikey? did I poop in your cheerios with my little rant?
Let me guess - early adopter - LMAO.

No I just felt like being a smartass. It happens from time to time. :biggrin:

Not early adopter, not mid adopter, not late adopter. Not likely future adopter.

Quote -
I would also like to say that back then, in 1999, people DID NOT expect everything to work with a single click. They made their own morphs. They made their own clothes. They figured out the innovations that people now take for granted. That was the days when people shared information in learning how to make the changes themselves.

This is true.
And the marketplaces all over largely killed much of that.
And the enormous success of the marketplaces stagnated Poser's development as "Content Paradise" was born, while "bloated runtimes" led to things like this ridiculous new library instead of a new render engine...

Actually, that's a double-edged sword there. As figures got more and more advanced (ie: built in morph targets, various body shapes, joint controlled morphs, etc), incorporating all of the innovations that the community, in part, discovered, it became more and more difficult (and time consuming) for many to create their own things. And because it was more difficult and time consuming, and because there were a LOT more users coming in that didn't know how to do it themselves, a marketplace was born.

Unfortunately, the community aspect of the old Poser days is largely gone, which is unfortunate. I miss those days. But that hasn't stopped me from trying to help someone that wants to learn how to do it themselves ... in fact, I encourage that whenever I can! 8-)

Quote -
If you pay big bucks for something - you should get a product with STAYING POWER! Content especially. You may not like older content - but other people do. Hell - the Poser 4 male - otherwise known as "The Dork", has a freaking cult following in CGI circles!

What is the problem here?
It's already been pointed out that all your old stuff will work in all versions of Poser since you bought the stuff.
If you're upset that those products are not supported much anymore if at all, well, things change and all.

Quote -
**Actually, that's a double-edged sword there. As figures got more and more advanced (ie: built in morph targets, various body shapes, joint controlled morphs, etc), incorporating all of the innovations that the community, in part, discovered, it became more and more difficult (and time consuming) for many to create their own things. And because it was more difficult and time consuming, and because there were a LOT more users coming in that didn't know how to do it themselves, a marketplace was born.

Unfortunately, the community aspect of the old Poser days is largely gone, which is unfortunate. I miss those days.**

Quote -

Okay, I'll give you that, but I do believe the success of the Poser Store idea has stagnated the actual development of the program itself.

And yes, it was at least more fun back in the early years.

Mugsey.. I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

One moment you say Dork is fantastic and a cult figure. And at the same time you say that 1999 content, which - surprise surprise - was when said Dork was made - is crap.

So people are making a cult around a crappy figure? Not that it would surprise me, look at Creepy the Clown - he was uglier than Dork L And THERE you could talk about cult!

As Deeey said, only the rsr's and .bum files won't work in Poser 8 (and I'm not even sure about the .bum files... has anyone tried to add them as a normal map?) - and the .rsr is a leftover from when Poser was a Mac program. (as are its internal paths with the : where you'd expect a backslash)

But you know what? DazStudio is getting more and more incompatible with Poser figures. Or Poser is getting incompatible with Daz figures, choose your own PoV. The Freak 4 doesn't even work properly in Poser anymore. And is that POSER's and Smith Micro's fault? Is it because they're greedy b*stids that wants to milk their users? Not really, no. Quite the opposite. I can still load Poser 2 figures into my Poser 8 and they work. But I can't load a NEW figure into my Poser and have it work. From a company that got to where they are not BECAUSE of Poser.

So who's to blame? Likewise, the Poser 8 figures are incompatible with Daz Studio. Why shouldn't Poser figures evolve? For that matter, why shouldn't Daz figures? We've been incredibly LUCKY for the past 10+ years that everything WAS compatible. It's a thing rarely seen in other computer programs.

It's the way of life. It's called evolution.

And your figures are taken out of the blue - you forget that Poser has always had upgrade prices - so once you've bought ONE version of Poser you'll never have to pay FULL PRICE for any more versions. So yes, I could afford the $129 to get Poser 8 the day it got out, I'd been saving up for that occasion for a long time. And I do NOT regret being an "early adopter" - not one second. Sure I could save money if I waited, but then I would not have been able to play with Poser in the mean time

That's what people always forget when they say "wait" - it's like with DVD movies. I can go out and buy a movie on the release day and watch it and enjoy it. AND pay through the nose for it. Or I can wait a couple of months and find it in a bargain bin for nothing. But then I wouldn't be able to SEE it in the months that passed, right? (heck sometimes the cheeky bastids on TV even air movies I've bought! I demand my money back! Here I BOUGHT a video and now I can watch it for free! The NERVE!)

They say that good things come to those who wait. I'd say obsolete things comes to those who waits too long. How many of you guys have a 10 year old cell phone? If all you need is something to phone other people, and send an occasional text message, why upgrade your phone? didn't the old one work good enough?

I was woken up at 9:00AM this morning by a phone call from Smith Micro trying to get my to buy a Poser 8 upgrade, and they were even going to throw in Wardrobe Wizard 2.0 (which I already own) and StuffIt. I told them that I rely upon many of the Poser Pro features (64-bit renderer, Render in Background, Render Queue) for my artwork and that I won't be buying anything until Poser Pro 2010 shows up.

I didn't mention that I'm semi-seriously looking at switching over to DS3A these days.

¤~Giolon~¤

¤~ RadiantCG ~¤~ My Renderosity Gallery ~¤

Wow! So they're resorting to cold calling customers to sell Poser 8? Ouch!

It is impossible to "cold call" a "customer", by definition.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

I wish I could go until 9am to be woken up...lol ;o). Ah well, never gonna happen...

Laurie

I am not going to dive into this fray, though it does seem to be civil fray at that.

But I did want to mention that Freak 4 does work in Poser, if the armor or clothing is made to work in Poser. I'm currently in the finishing phase of some armor for our Freakish one and it works perfectly.

Comitted to excellence through art.

Admittedly I do not have F4 myself. Buyt I've seen so many threads about him not working that...

And yes I know it's a problem with the clothes scaling/conforming some such thing so it would make sense that it would work in Poser if made for Poser.

It doesn't really change the fact that Daz has managed to make an incompatible (at least to some degree) figure. And once they've started...

Oh and I would be LIVID if anyone called me at 9 am. I work nights so at 9am I am fast asleep. Good thing they won't call abroad and that telemarketing (except for newspapers and insurances, which always call late afternoon) are not allowed here.

Quote - It doesn't really change the fact that Daz has managed to make an incompatible (at least to some degree) figure. And once they've started...

But that's exactly my point. Again, I'm not going to slosh in the pits about what DAZ has or hasn't done. What I want are cool outfits for Freak that work...and mine work!

Comitted to excellence through art.

jeez, those guys never called me. but I would still buy poser anyway, just to keep the cash flow positive for them. I don't wanna see any of those guys having to go to work for apple or adobe or autodesk, and oracle is about to slash 3,000 jobs.

Well guys, forgive me for seeming a bit pushy (my family hates me, lol), but at times I get a little passionate about things (might be hypertension - might be "Manipause", not quite sure).
The point is that I have a deep seated fear of all of the content I've worked hard to both collect, and create, suddenly turning into fossilized dinosaur poo. I'm a poor boy ( a combination of a lack of ambition, and being fughly, lol) - so I can't pop down a 250 clams while trying to stay in the black (these ain't the Clinton years), let alone another 500 smackers to restock my stock.
Now I will peacefully conclude my time on this thread because I'm sarting to disgust myself with the "dove with a wounded wing / boo hoo hoo" tantrum. Peace to you all - and nice talkin to ya!

All the more reason, Mugsey, to learn how to make/update/customize things yourself. You'd be amazed at how much farther you can take your content if you create your own textures, or enhance the materials, or even add your own custom morphs. There are free applications that you can use to do it too.

Good luck.

Quote - It is impossible to "cold call" a "customer", by definition.

Well, if he doesn't own the product which is the subject of the call, he's not technically a customer. If he didn't request or expect the call, it sure sounds like a cold call.

At any rate, given his response, I would say it probably felt like a cold call to the caller.

Klebnor (one time direct sales person)

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Quote -
...and they were even going to throw in Wardrobe Wizard 2.0 (which I already own) and StuffIt.

Does anybody even actually use Stuffit?
And at 50 bucks, when Winrar and Winzip are far less, while there are many free programs, and if that weren't enough, both Windows and Mac can already decompress a lot of files on their own...
I can't even remember the last time I saw a Stuffit file anywhere, but I'm sure it was here, and more than 7 or 8 years ago.
Unless it's just a Mac thing, which might also explain why it's so overpriced. ;-)

I had Stuffit on my computer once - by accident. I've never encountered a more annoying and invasive PoS. I almost had to reformat to get rid of it. Never again. Once bitten and all that.

And yes, Stuffit is originally a Mac program. Then again, so was Poser L

My original gripe in this thread was about SM offering rather expensive (to Me) freebies, i.e. Groboto.

I am an older person with no income.. I am living on My savings. In the current financial climate every cent needs to be counted. Then there is an additional burden called Foreign Exchange which adds about Au$28.00 for each US$100.00 . When I purchased P8 it was Au$162.00

I am very careful where I spend My hard eared cash and I do not normally buy software upgrades immediately they are released. Poser is My ONLY exception.

The annoyance and frustration comes from P8 being so unreliable on some machines and not others. SR1 seems to have broken almost as much as it fixes, and I seem to be communicating more with SM than any other person in My address book.

At least discussion in this thread has been more constructive than divisive and that is good..

Quote - It is impossible to "cold call" a "customer", by definition.

Oh let's do this again Bill!

Quote -
cold call (plural cold calls)

A telephone call made without a referral or without preparing the recipient of the call; especially, a sales call.

Cold calling is the process of approaching prospective customers or clients, typically via telephone, who were not expecting such an interaction. The word "cold" is used because the person receiving the call is not expecting a call or has not specifically asked to be contacted by a sales person.

So Where's "Your" definition?

Well FWIW, my take on the "cold call" thing is that Giolon (who was the one who mentioned the phone call) was already a customer, considering the proposal was to "...buy a Poser 8 upgrade".

So they obviously already had the phone number, and I would think that might serve as a "referral", since it was willingly given at one point.
Jut my take on it. I'm not an expert on the subject though, and I never played one on TV either.

Still I wouldn't want SM calling me to ask me to upgrade. I don't like sales calls of any kind, cold, warm or otherwise. Just because you've given a phone number because it's required doesn't mean phone sales are wanted or expected.

I agree with that completely. Like I always tell telemarketers or unsolicited sales people, I'm not stupid and if I want something I know full well how to find it. If I don't have it already, chances are I don't want it or can't afford it anyway.
That's when I bother to talk to them. Usually I just tell them to hold on a minute and set the phone down and just walk away and forget about it. ;-)

I just hang up! Why should I tie up my phone line? I might miss the most important call of my life leaving it off the hook! Like Pizza Hut calling to say I've won free Pizza for life or something! :tt2:

It seems to me if your going to drop support for a format then you need to build a plug-in converter for those so people can continue using them. I don't think you just tell people sorry folks!

InfoCentrial,

There are both rsr to png, and rsr to obj converters available in the Rederosity free section under utilities. (rsr2png, and rsr2obj) I installed both in my Windows Vista system. They work!

You just start rsr2png, point it at your runtime, click the recursive box, then click convert and in about 15 or so minutes all of the thumbnail rsr files will have a corresponding png file. It will tell you it can not convert the obj rsr files. You can use the rsr2obj for that if you really need. But I found there is usually both obj and rsr files provided so conversion is really not needed.

regards,

wcbncal

Then I don't see the lost file compatibility problem some are clamoring about.

Quote - Then I don't see the lost file compatibility problem some are clamoring about.

Then You are a lucky one.. If Poser 8 does not quit on Me first. I quit Poser, and everything else, Reboot computer and pray it is not still there..

Quote - I agree with that completely. Like I always tell telemarketers or unsolicited sales people, I'm not stupid and if I want something I know full well how to find it. If I don't have it already, chances are I don't want it or can't afford it anyway.
That's when I bother to talk to them. Usually I just tell them to hold on a minute and set the phone down and just walk away and forget about it. ;-)

One of the best things I've gotten in the past year is audible caller ID. The phones now announce the caller ID data for all calls. If we don't recognize the caller's name or number, we don't even have to get up to look at the phone. A lot of tele-sales companies are on to caller ID, but their calls are announced as "unknown caller" or "800 service". A sure tip-off to ignore it.

Works great!

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Quote - > Quote - Then I don't see the lost file compatibility problem some are clamoring about.

Then You are a lucky one.. If Poser 8 does not quit on Me first. I quit Poser, and everything else, Reboot computer and pray it is not still there..

But NoelCan... YOUR problem has NOTHING to do with whether or not Poser is backwards compatible. YOUR PROBLEM isn't whether you can see an RSR thumbnail or not (which you can if you run it thorugh the free converter, so it IS no problem)

And InfoCentral: That's the problem: People are assuming problems where there are none. That's not saying there isn't any problems with Poser 8, but compatibility isn't one of them!

Poser is still better than DAZ Studio. The latter is only popular because it's free.

I thought Poser 5 was much better than 6. P6 had too many issues so I went back to 5 and never really used 6. Poser 7 was the best of them all. Poser 8 still needs more work especially with that library.

Poser 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Pro 2014, 11, 11 Pro

The library issues are solved by purchasing other developers software. That is something I am not prepared to do.. The library problems are a BL*Y nuisance but I can live with it (for now).
Outside sources have given Me partial work arounds for the rendering issues, but they still occur in a random sort of frustrating order.. Bldy disapointing to get 3 or 4 black Bucket sized artifacts in a 200 minute render.. I have stopped sending to SM, they keep asking for more and more detail.
Almost to the point of asking what i was having for brekky the day I purchased Poser 6..

Quote - Poser is still better than DAZ Studio. The latter is only popular because it's free.

I thought Poser 5 was much better than 6. P6 had too many issues so I went back to 5 and never really used 6. Poser 7 was the best of them all. Poser 8 still needs more work especially with that library.

It's not only because it's free, not at all. DAZ has been around for a long time and people tend to trust them. Poser switches owner almost with each new version, not a base to put trust in. DAZ tends to listen to users a lot more then any of the Poser owners has done. SM follows it's own agenda and listens to the input of a handful of users, neglecting the majority. They only listen to the majority when it fits their plans for Poser. DAZ support is easy to work with, SM support asks a million questions that are completely unrelated to the issue reported. DAZ seems to have a solid and knowledgable team of developers, SM needs to hire people from the outside to get things done. D/S has a growing user base, Posers user base is decreasing with each new version. It would not surprise me if D/S Advanced has more users already then Poser 8 does have.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Daz still has a long ways to get where Poser is today but they are getting there. DS was conceptualized as being a modular application like Cinema 4D. Poser is a complete package. When I bought DS Advanced I purchased it with a plug-in bundle and on sale it cost me over $200. So much for a FREE product.

free as in

"free kittens"

Quote - When I bought DS Advanced I purchased it with a plug-in bundle and on sale it cost me over $200. So much for a FREE product.

Hi DAZ studio BASE is by every Legal Definition a FREE product
that never Claimed to "Do everything poser can".

And its main user base does not seem to care about "everything" poser can do.
the fact that you made a personal choice to buy some Paid add ons does not change the FACT that there is a FREE version of DAZ studio.

IMHO there needs to be Free Version of Poser at this point perhaps with no animation tools,Dynamic& hair and without the New IDL renderer since only 3% of us actually animate anyway,

Cheers.

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote - IMHO there needs to be Free Version of Poser at this point perhaps with no animation tools,Dynamic& hair and without the New IDL renderer since only 3% of us actually animate anyway,

Cheers.

Excellent idea!

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Which brings us back to the original topic of this thread... Poser 8 and freebies..

IMO Poser should be a $1000.00 piece of software..!!!

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Poser 8 promo.. Are things going bad ?