It's my opinion but i think too many pictures posted are not posted in the good categorie ...

Some exemples, pictures rendered with max but the setup in poser, what is the best categorie ? Poser ? Max ? Or mixed ?

What is the focus for a categorie ? The modeling or the rendering ? I always try to place my pictures in the most accurate, if i setup a scene in poser and i use max for render i put it in the mixed medium, it's logic ! Something is missing in the TOS, IMHO ...

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I know what you mean, however if you want people to see your work it seems that posting them anywhere other than the Poser Gallery is not an option.

Personally I think that the Software Specific galleries are not needed, who cares what it was composed/rendered in, if it is art then it is art.

Why restrict your interests to work created in any one package?

John

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I think the main reason the galleries are categorized is so that folks can see what can be done in any particular program. If I see something cool for instance, if I know what it was created in I might possibly duplicate that effect. Of course, you can also get the same thing by just listing what programs you used in your description, but some folks don't read those ;o).

Laurie

I for one, would like to know exactly what packages were used.

It could be a Poser scene, but if it was rendered in Vue, Max, C4D or whatever, I'd like to know.

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

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for me, the category I use is down to what program I rendered it in (or the modeller if the render engine isn't listed - VRay for example)

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Reason I mention the other packages is...I can tell there is something about the render, the lighting, shadows. If the render is in the Poser gallery then there is hope I can duplicate the "IT" of the image. If I need Max or something else....

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

Agree with 'rendered in' thing. Even if you spent 90% of your time setting up a scene in poser, if you render it in MAX then it should be in the MAX category. Putting it in the poser category is pretty unfair to all the artists who spend painful amounts of time coaxing a decent render from poser.

But of course there are also plenty of unscrupulous people in our galleries who put everything from photomanips to heavily postworked stuff under 'poser' so what are you gonna do.

Well.. a lot of pictures - some of my own included - are so heavily postworked that they really should be in either Photoshop or Mixed Medium rather than Poser... Yet.. if I've made a picture in Poser and rendered it in Poser... I'll post it in the Poser gallery. With a note about postwork - or No postwork.

I like when a pic looks like I want iot to WITHOUT a load of postwork, but most of the time I have to at least "gamma correct" my pics before posting them :)

I would guess that a little postwork won't disqualify the image for where it is intended. In many case, a tweak here or there is necessary to make the render more presentable and satisfying for both the artist and the viewer.

Personally, I pretty much always postwork the crap out of my renders and I usually render knowing I´ll be adding a lot of postwork.

I don't agree that the renderer should decide the category. If you do most of the ground work in Poser, with all Poser content and import it into Max or C4D only to render, I would still consider it a Poser image.

I consider myself a "Poser artist" and even if I use Photoshop heavily on every image I still post it under the Poser category. I've even posted renders that were done with Interposer in C4D, where I didn´t even open Poser. Still a Poser image at heart, if you know what I mean.

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Hmmm. So if I model a house in excrutiating detail using a Python script, and I also use a Python script to generate texture maps and all the shaders, and I only render it in Poser, then did I do the image in Python category?

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Quote - Hmmm. So if I model a house in excrutiating detail using a Python script, and I also use a Python script to generate texture maps and all the shaders, and I only render it in Poser, then did I do the image in Python category?

Groumpf ...

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Quote - Hmmm. So if I model a house in excrutiating detail using a Python script, and I also use a Python script to generate texture maps and all the shaders, and I only render it in Poser, then did I do the image in Python category?

hahaha... err... well basically yes! If there such an exciting thing as a Python category.

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I agree- I'm not a great fan of program specific catagories. I often make my images in layers(duh). The BG from Vue often, a few poser items, Some PS clouds and post work. There is a big problem with useing the mixed medium catagory beyond the number of views. It's the one catagory that is rejected by staff for things like AOM, AOY ect..............
Personally, I'd perfer catagories like the book catagories. Fiction, Fantasy, Sci-fi, Biography, science ect ect.........

Python is an integral part of Poser. Is it not?

I think Python is a script language that's not exlusive to Poser. I think it can be used on it's own or with other application. But as you can see I only think, I don't really know.

As for the category issue, I´m a Poser artist, I post in the Poser category. Like geogress I don't like to much categorizing and I find it irritating when it comes to choosing categories when posting my images.

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As do I. I very rarely do any post work. When I do it is with Corel Painter..

I woulds like to see a Fantasy-SciFi / SciFi-Fantasy category. This would save Me some confusion..

Perhaps if you looked at the options you'd find there is no need for confusion - use the "genre" selector.

I agree with Anthanasius - the issue of Category (which tool to attribute the image to) is unclear when you used more than one and a significant amount of time was spent not in lighting/shaders/rendering but in creating the scene. That's why some people think that spending 10 hours posing in Poser and 10 minutes rendering in Vue justifies calling it a Poser image. But it disturbs me to look at an image who's overall rendering quality is not what you'd expect from Poser. I look at such images and think - my, this person is really skillful with Poser lighting - only to find it wasn't rendered in Poser. If it's categorized as "Poser", then I expect it to have been rendered in Poser.

Similarly, if you spend a week modeling in Max, and render in Poser, it is still a Poser image, not a Max image. The image came from Poser. Maybe the props or figures in it came from elsewhere but so what. I've heard that V4 was modeled in Modo. So if you load V4 and click render in Poser, is that a Modo render? Hardly.

That's why I "posed" the question about Python. (And, no, I'm not talking about Poser Python - I'm talking about Python in general which is a standalone program.) If I do all the work of setting up the scene in Python and at the last minute load it into Poser and render, is that a Python render? I don't think so. For that matter, if you're going to go that way, then the truth is it would be a Notepad.exe render, because that is where I spent all my time writing the Python script - in Notepad.

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Quote - Similarly, if you spend a week modeling in Max, and render in Poser, it is still a Poser image, not a Max image. The image came from Poser. Maybe the props or figures in it came from elsewhere but so what. I've heard that V4 was modeled in Modo. So if you load V4 and click render in Poser, is that a Modo render? Hardly.

Maybe V4 was modeled in Modo but she doesn't come packaged for Modo when you buy her does she? She doesn't come packaged for Max, C4D, Vue or Notepad. No she comes ready for Poser and DS. If you look at a render of V4 I bet most users out there would connect her with Poser or DS. No matter how many fancy lights and render elements she has around her.

If someone has labored for a week in Max, modeling a car, only to post it as a Poser render in the Poser gallery, I might ask "Hey where can I get that car?" only to find out someone had been so stupid to render in Poser in stead of Max ;) That's hardly fair either is it?

Maybe we expect different things from the Poser section. I really don´t like untouched renders and I don't understand the "no postwork, just render" WOW factor. No matter how good a render looks, it will always look better after a bit of surgical postwork IMO.

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Quote -
Maybe we expect different things from the Poser section. I really don´t like untouched renders and I don't understand the "no postwork, just render" WOW factor. No matter how good a render looks, it will always look better after a bit of surgical postwork IMO.

There was a time, back in the Poser 4 days, where I would agree with you. At the time, Poser's limited renderingengine was generally not capable of making really "WOW" images without postwork (with some exceptions, there's always been some true masters around)

But IMO rendering a Poser image in ... for instance Vue is ... cheating. It's no longer a Poser pic then. I would expect a Poser image to be rendered in Poser. After all, 99.9% of the content is made in other programs - but just because it's "Poser Ready" doesn't mean it's Poser ONLY - So you can set up things in Carrara, using things from your Poser runtime - would you still claim that to be a Poser image as well? It would be the same to say that something rendered in DS should be posted in the Poser category because Poser was there first and the things were originally made for Poser.

To me, the renderer is the deciding point, unless it's clear that most of the work is done in Photoshop. If you render a nude Vicky and paint clothes and hair on her and put her on a background, all in Photoshop, then it's IMO no longer a Poser picture. In that case the render is merely like a tube or stamp or decal or whatever the appropriate term is for any given image program.

If tthe postwork is merely fixing things, smoothing bends, colour correcting, adding signature and/or frames.. then it's still basically a Poser image, but if the postwork is the MAIN thing in the image, it's not.

In my opinion, that is.

Thank's bagginsbill. I stand corrected. I did ASSUME (and We all know where that goes..) that Poser Python and Python were the same..

In the Genre box there is Fantasy, and there is Sci-Fi. In Many of My images I combine characters and items from these genres e.g. Renaisance clothing on a character holding a ray gun..
How do I select a category without conflict ?

Maybe this is some kind of mental issue for me :). I´ve been posting in the Poser section since 2001 I think, and posting somewhere else just seems out of place for me. Like when I mostly rendered in C4D, people were doing amazing things with Cinema (and probably still are), modeling characters, animations and fluids and what not. I was loading up V4, clicking on a MAT file and a pose and hitting render. I wasn´t using C4D to build and create stuff. It felt a bit like cheating really...

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Quote - Thank's bagginsbill. I stand corrected. I did ASSUME (and We all know where that goes..) that Poser Python and Python were the same..

In the Genre box there is Fantasy, and there is Sci-Fi. In Many of My images I combine characters and items from these genres e.g. Renaisance clothing on a character holding a ray gun..
How do I select a category without conflict ?

LOL That's a good one. I'd say Ray gun = SciFi, no matter how people are dressed.

I'm a big fan of SciFi and a moderate fan of Fantasy. (Who doesn't like Harry Potter?) But they're not at all related, in my view, and it irks me when I go to a book store and have to wade through hundreds of fantasy novels to find the new SciFi novels. So I'm glad in Rendo galleries, the two genres are distinct.

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Here's one of my "Python" or "Notepad" renders. LOL

I still have a lot of things to model. Doorknobs are next.

Then hinges, latches, window locks, power outlets, light switches, heating vents, etc.

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Yeah.. I agree about the bookstore bit. Tolkien should NEVER be SciFi..

But hey, let's give Frodo a Light Saber in Poser..!

Impressive! Extremely impressive! I take from your other Python products that this will be easier to use then, say the PICK system?

Ooh, and I have solution regarding the category crisis. You could post your python scripts with a rendered image in the Writers section. They don't have a render or python genre though... ;)

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I like the look of PICK a lot and thought about doing things that way. But sliding the individual sections around seems tedious, although semidieu did make some sort of room editor for it, as well as some utilities for changing color on all parts at once.

But if you want to build an entire house or hotel, you need to be able to control the color or texture of all the wall pieces in a given room, while doing it differently for other rooms. PICK doesn't give you an easy way to do that.

Also, I would like to have more options for things - many different door and window styles, and different sorts of frames around the doors, windows, and of course the baseboards. I also want to do more detail. For example, it always bothers me when I see a CG room and there are no outlets or switches on the walls. And light fixtures. Basically, everything you find in an ordinary interior should be possible to sprinkle around. And for any fixed lighting, the lights should come included. For example, in that hotel hallway I posted above, there are 13 light fixtures, and you need 13 point lights to go with them. I did those by hand in that render, but my plan is to include lighting in the model.

Once I get all the standard wall/window/door parts squared away, then I want to do shelves, cabinets, stairs, and possibly some appliances, sinks, and faucets. Whatever you find in a house when you buy it should be in the kit. Then you furnish it with loose pieces that are not attached to walls. That's the plan, anyway.

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Here's an example of the kind of control I'm after.

Here is one kind of window style. When I build a room, I get to specify a bunch of things about the windows. This style is what I have in my home.

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I do a lot of work for a company far from my home, so they provide me with an apartment. It has very different windows. But by simply changing a few parameters in my script, I can generate a room with this kind of window. I don't have to replace all the pieces I've laid out - just change some parameters, kind of like how VSS lets me change all the skin zones to match by changing a few parameters.

I can generate hundreds of different variations on doors and windows, and make them any size at all, without having to load new props.

If you look closely at the reflections in this window, you can see the other windows in the room behind the camera. They have all changed.

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Click click.

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Click click click.

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Looks nice. Will it be able to do things like archways, non 90 degree angles, sloped ceilings, accent walls, and things like that?

WARK!

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(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Quote - > Quote - Thank's bagginsbill. I stand corrected. I did ASSUME (and We all know where that goes..) that Poser Python and Python were the same..

In the Genre box there is Fantasy, and there is Sci-Fi. In Many of My images I combine characters and items from these genres e.g. Renaisance clothing on a character holding a ray gun..
How do I select a category without conflict ?

LOL That's a good one. I'd say Ray gun = SciFi, no matter how people are dressed.

I'm a big fan of SciFi and a moderate fan of Fantasy. (Who doesn't like Harry Potter?) But they're not at all related, in my view, and it irks me when I go to a book store and have to wade through hundreds of fantasy novels to find the new SciFi novels. So I'm glad in Rendo galleries, the two genres are distinct.

Actually there's no hard answer for that when the two categories are blended, which is probably one of the reasons the two categories are combined in the stores. Take star wars, it isn't sci-fi but a space opera... in other words it's a fantasy in space. However because you have lasers and star ships, people put it into sci-fi. Sci-fi itself has multiple divisions. There are a lot of people that only like hard sci-fi and others who only care for the adventure stuff.

Or take Godzilla, which is pretty much a dragon. Are the Godzilla flicks sci-fi or are they modern fantasies?

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Now I am being confused by the facts.
So I will just post Mainly in Poser... Fantasy and let the viewers sort it out.
Tagging with whatever I think is best..

LOL BB all the threads are good for propotion

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I'm always late to the party, ain't I?

The gallery division, to me, only serves a practical purpose; So the staff of particular areas know where they're supposed to look :lol:
In all seriousness, when it comes to a community aspect, I don't like the divisive categories. A lot of the reason you'll see Poser figures rendered in hi-end apps posted in the Poser gallery is because of the stigma the figures carry. You could set up an awesome scene in Maya, Max, C4d, etc...you'll get abuse from Program Purists every time. Most of the time, what they say is just this side of the TOS, and is said in more of a critique than an attack. Doesn't make it suck less. After being barraged with "yeah, it looks nice, but did you model that figure?" a couple dozen times, you learn your lesson and post in the more user-friendly Poser gallery. Doesn't hurt that you'll get more views, either.
The thing a lot of people forget, all over the 3D community, is that if you try to be good at every aspect of what you're doing, you're going to fail at something. The trick is knowing what you're good at, working hard at it, and learning to cover the aspects of what you don't with the skills you have at everything else.
It bothers me, more on an intellectual and logical level, when people get ragged on for using pre-made models in high end applications. Most times, the "raggers" don't have the "quality" in their gallery that they're looking for, but they're of the mind that "hey, at least I made all of my work myself!"
So, you'll get work in the Poser gallery that may only have started there, but rendered elsewhere. We like to try to be inclusive, because, well, being exclusive kinda sucks.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Here's my thing:

So I used to be the mod for the modeling gallery. What do you think I should've done with all the folks who insisted (and still insist) on putting Poser models in there? Not just Poser models but UNTOUCHED Poser models. I mean, if you're the content creator, fine, post away, but if your entire image needs to credit someone else for every model in the scene, you have NO BUSINESS posting it in the Modeling Gallery. Period. Poser is my bread and butter and I tell you, nothing got to me more than seeing Poser models in the modeling gallery with no explanation why they were there.

I mean, at least claim to have made the morph. I'd almost be okay with that but to just pose a figure and render it does not equate to modeling it.

Now I understand there's a language barrier - it's the internet and all - people may mistake the word Modeling for fashion runway shots or some such thing. I'd have thought a look around the gallery after posting would make you realize the mistake but...nope. So I posted an explanation of what the gallery was for in the gallery header. My thought was, oh, if they see this, they can figure out it's the wrong place to put their work. Heck, it's easy to translate using Google or something. Nope.

So what do you do with that? How do you deal with that? Poser is a great app - again, my livelihood - but it doesn't deserve to be in every gallery category in every situation.

(lord I hope I don't get yelled at for posting this - and no, I'm not talking the community)

My thoughts on posting Poser models to other app categories is simply - if you spent more time there than in Poser, go for it. There's nothing wrong with that. It may have taken you awhile to surface and light that scene or you may have needed to re rig a figure in order to correct some bends. Whatever. When it comes to posting in the various application categories, just make sure to explain how each program was used and I'm a happy camper.

How about this? I´m working on an image now that's just a bust of V4 with some nice VSS mats applied to it. I will probably be spending hours in Photoshop doing postwork. Could I post the untouched render in the Poser section and the heavily postworked image in the mixed medium section?

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@ Bagginsbill:

I really like the PICK system too but like you say, It's a bit tedious to work with. I assume that your system will also work well with IDL?

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Quote - How about this? I´m working on an image now that's just a bust of V4 with some nice VSS mats applied to it. I will probably be spending hours in Photoshop doing postwork. Could I post the untouched render in the Poser section and the heavily postworked image in the mixed medium section?

I don't see why not - though I would put it in Poser/Photoshop, as mixed medium to me means mixed MEDIUM. The fact you created your image digitally and that it's being displayed digitally is its medium, not what app was used. At least to me.

In my opinion, when it comes to posting in the gallery, if you give an explanation of what was used and in what aspect or why the image is where it is, you're good to go. Let us know why it's in the Poser section or the Photoshop section or the Modeling section.

Actually - we should have a mixed application section. That would solve everyone's woes. Mixed Medium is too...confusing, as medium can mean different things. Mixed applications is more specific and would cover every situation in digitally created works accross multiple applications I think.

Out of curiosity - if I render in Poser, export the image as a PSD and then save from Photoshop as JPEG before posting because I like the "save for web" feature, does that make it a Photoshop image?

In the end, no one's going to be 100% happy with the categories. And, yeah, Teyon, I totally hear you on the 3D Modelling thing...There's even a notice IN the gallery, stating that it's not for Poser or DS stuff. It's for showcasing of modelling.

In the end, there's a whole lot of worrying about what people are working with and not the quality of work. Instead of thinking "Well, it's a great render, but it was done with 3DS Max, so, of course it's going to be good..." or "How dare you sully the name of Cinema4D with your blasphemous Vicky 4!!", we get over it?
I say, work with what you've got, and rather than worrying about the how, we worry about the end result ;)

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what i do is i writte some info about my render.

with CGI every render is perfect clear and sharp.so for realism i blur a little my render. i tell this to people. plus after rendering i always play in photostop for 10 minutes with color. to correct teh black and whitte in the image and a little color correction. its still a poser render but some color correction never hurts. if i would do DOF in poser i wouldnt mention it. but if i do it its from photoshop because its faster. plus i also do some lens flare or subtle glow with bright lights. its all done in photoshop.
but more then 80% is still from poser. its a poser render. i almost never do paint touchups

Quote -

Out of curiosity - if I render in Poser, export the image as a PSD and then save from Photoshop as JPEG before posting because I like the "save for web" feature, does that make it a Photoshop image?

This actually came up quite a lot in the Halloween contest this year....There were people entering the 2D contest with obviously 3D images after having added postwork with blood spatter brushes and saving it out as a .jpg. For the contest, if there wasn't a significant change in the end result, it wasn't accepted. Sure, you opened it in Photoshop, doesn't automatically make it a "Photoshop Creation".

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Quote - @ Bagginsbill:

I really like the PICK system too but like you say, It's a bit tedious to work with. I assume that your system will also work well with IDL?

All my room renders are with IDL. The one above has only one point light.

I started making these rooms entirely because of the availability of IDL. Until we had IDL, I didn't think making super realistic rooms was worth the trouble, because the lighting always looked fake.

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Quote - > Quote - @ Bagginsbill:

I really like the PICK system too but like you say, It's a bit tedious to work with. I assume that your system will also work well with IDL?

All my room renders are with IDL. The one above has only one point light.

I started making these rooms entirely because of the availability of IDL. Until we had IDL, I didn't think making super realistic rooms was worth the trouble, because the lighting always looked fake.

Fantastic! I´ve been trying some old apartment sets I have with IDL and not a made a great progress with IDL. Going over every texture to adjust the diffuse is tedious and most of the time it isn't enough. Now let me be the first to ask: When will your system be ready for the general public? ;)

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Quote - > Quote - @ Bagginsbill:

I really like the PICK system too but like you say, It's a bit tedious to work with. I assume that your system will also work well with IDL?

All my room renders are with IDL. The one above has only one point light.

I started making these rooms entirely because of the availability of IDL. Until we had IDL, I didn't think making super realistic rooms was worth the trouble, because the lighting always looked fake.

a little more softer shadows would make it even more real.

BB, the archvis guys are going to love you!

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Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Gallery become mad !!!