Have any breathtaking indirect lighting renders done in under 8 minutes?

Depends who's breathing.
Breathtaking renders and Poser don't really go hand in hand.
Most will have tons of postwork to camoflage the Poser faults.
Show us yours !

somebody will do one, but it will take longer than 8 minutes.
my suggestion would be a contest sponsored by SM, and the prize would be $500 for the most breath-taking poser render.

Cough,  cough,  oh dear My emphysema is acting up again..

SM and Adobe should team up..   $500 from SM and Photoshop from Adobe..!!

Another who think the make art button exist

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But Anthanasius the Make Art button does exist, just ask PhilC for confirmation. ;)

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Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Quote - Another who think the make art button exist

But it does exist...    It is button #8 on My seven button Mouse..

Breathtaking renders usually need more than 8 minutes, even with mental ray and Photorealistic Renderman.

... and the "Make Art"-button comes with Wardrobe Wizard.

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori. 

Setting an arbitrary time like "under 8 minutes" is pointless and silly for ANY 3D render program.
and using a highly subjective term like "breathtaking"
is Equally Meaningless.

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Yeah, and then find out that it was Posette that won! 
That would put some red cheeks on some..... :-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

It would take me quite a while to establish a scene that was breathtaking, with or without IDL.

Anyway - I'd call this "interesting". Rendered under 4 minutes with IDL. Some of the areas visible had not direct light at all.

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You truly are the king of kings.

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Be careful, TZORG, or BB will be able to get 'breathtaking' in that render in under 8 minutes

I seem to be the only entrant. What do I win? snicker

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Quote - I seem to be the only entrant. What do I win? snicker

Our admiration and gratitude.  Oh yeah, and my Batman suit when I finish it. :biggrin:

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it would actually be very easy to judge the most breath-taking render.
just fill up the SM conf room with all the free personnel and run a slide show.
the one that registers highest on the gasp-o-meter would be the winner - good, bad or ugly.
it's a totally transparent process :lol:

OK Here's my second example. I was playing around with new combinations of shader GC, and HSVETM. It looked pretty good, so I kept making larger and larger renders until I got just under 8 minutes render time.

Using only a single spot light. The P8 backdrop prop, and my environment sphere provided secondary lighting.

Click for full size.

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Strange hairs ! ;-)

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The hair is set to be invisible to raytracing (good luck rendering layers of transparency with GI in small time).

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Quote - The hair is set to be invisible to raytracing (good luck rendering layers of transparency with GI in small time).

Hmmm. I got distracted today while I was setting this up. I may have not re-enabled that. I'm timing the render again.

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You were right. I forget to re-enable the raytracing on the hair after one of my test renders.

So now it is 9 minutes 30 seconds. Whoops. I could get back under 8 if I cheat the render settings a little more. Or just make it a bit smaller.

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Yep. 7 minutes 1 second.

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Hmm. Got it down to 5 minutes 16 seconds, but the backdrop is starting to show some artifacts.

You can get these faster renders by decreasing the IDL samples and cache settings. Try Samples = 150, and Cache = 20, and just 2 bounces.

This one was Samples=30, IC=15. This is too low for most uses but it does illustrate how to get speedy test renders.

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At 400 by 800 instead of 1000 by 2000, you still can get a good sense of the lighting for a test render, and these settings are pretty fast. This was rendered in 1 minute 58 seconds.

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Here are the settings I used.

On my spot light, I had shadow blur radius = 3, and shadow samples = 10.

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@BB ;-)
Shaking head, not fair, blowing the competition into no man's land before they even started. :-)
Drip-drip-drip, walking off, bouncing into wall. Oeps, that hurt.

BTW, nice set up on the model, and even the clothing renders very detailed (on the high versions)
 Just the legs look a bit "dull, evened out", do not find the exact word.
From this side of the globe, i'd add a little spec or highlight, or a slight bump noice or gravel.
Bump, Not displacement, as that would add to the render time.
(my 2 cents)

Or? ? ?
You could "sharpen" the skin texture, add a little contrast, and plug the same skin into diffuse, spec, highlight, and bump. (would not add to texture memory load, as it is the same skin).
(that was the 3d cent)  ;-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

8 minutes of IDL on an 8year old P4 system...lol.... it can just about dribble

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

i still used P4 till last year.
now, I stil use P5 from time to time.
had a double installation P7 and P8 (one never knows) but ended up deleting P7/

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Nice to know that you can push the IDL settings that low and still get a decent test render in a far more manageable amount of time.  I figured I had to be doing something wrong that even my quick test IDL renders were taking an hour or two.

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BB, is that still rendered on your dual core laptop? Quite impressive!

This image of Stonemason's "Walled City" was rendered in eleven minutes on my old computer (old dual core). On my new one, it took less then five minutes. IDL, one light and an env sphere. Not breathtaking, but a proove that IDL can be very fast with the right settings.

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori. 

Sure without reflect/refract a render can be really speed :-)

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Yes, on my Dell D830.

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And then, no one set the conditions for the 8-minute render except for breathtaking. 

the other conditions:

• nice hair
• well-fitting clothes
• pleasing pose and facial expression
• room full of props
• background props

without all of those there's no way it could be breath-taking IMVHO.  it would just be another bald nude zombie in empty scene.

 Bagginsbill - her skirt is immodestly short don't you think?

IMHO the bald nude zombie will be breathtaking if photorealistic...

My knees get weak mostly at photorealistic interior renders with no human figures to sabotage them

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Quote - the other conditions: - nice hair

• well-fitting clothes
• pleasing pose and facial expression
• room full of props
• background props

without all of those there's no way it could be breath-taking IMVHO.  it would just be another bald nude zombie in empty scene.

?

Who write this ?

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Quote -  Bagginsbill - her skirt is immodestly short don't you think?

I thought I was being conservative by not posting a nude again. ;-)

Anyway - I chose the outfit to cover naughty bits but still show a lot of skin.

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¡ c'est moi !

Okee dokee. What do we think of this, then?

7 minutes 58 seconds.

Click for full size.

One infinite light.

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Dang, people sure have a very low threshold for having their breath taken away (no slam against BB's lighting).

BB in that last pic the reflection map has a big problem, the sandy beachfront is way out of scale.  It's also drawn at oddly different hights on the two large reflecting buildings in the right half, I don't know what's up there (maybe the UVmap but I'd have thought mapped reflections wouldn't much care about the UVmap).

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The glass wall of the building in the lower right is sloped - not vertical. The shift in apparent height is simply because the mirror is tilted.

And as for the scale of the beach, I think you're misinterpreting the scale of what you're seeing. It's not a little beach.

This is the view from the rooftop of the building in the lower right, with the sloped wall.

This panorama was taken from a kite flying almost two hundred feet above the ground.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aldo/2626866515/

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The sloped building from behind.

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From somewhere inside.

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In this render, I used a clouds node on the EnvironmentSphere, in shades of gray, and some atmosphere to fade the distant buildings. There are no lights here. It's all GI. Just over 5 minutes.

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What really bugs me about that reflection from earlier is that the horizon is right up to the middle of most of the buildings.  Either the camera is angled down (x orbit) kind of a lot - and it doesn't appear to be - or the horizon is way too high in most of the reflections.  From the perspective, it looks to me like the camera is perfectly perpendicular to the ground (x orbit again) but I may be mistaken.  The later pics are a lot more convincing, probably because a little more natural-looking camera angle.

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Could it be that in the first pic, the buildings are in a pit?

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

When glass on a building (or any mirror) is perfectly perpendicular to the ground, the perspective of horiizon reflections is the same as if the building wasn't there and you were looking at the horizon directly. A little bit of trigonometry verifies this, if you're of a mind.

So - with the camera floating a couple hundred feet off the ground, as in my first render, the horizon passes through the middle of the buildings. Maybe this is an unfamiliar viewpoint, but it is pretty much correct. There is some small amount of distortion due to the fact that the environment sphere is only 750 feet across, not 40 miles, but this only shifts the results a few degrees.

Anyway - the point I was making was you can do an 8 minute IDL render and have it come out pretty nice. The particular reflections of scenery aren't the point - the point is that the lighting from sky and ground is very well taken into account with no fussing, guessing, and test rendering using IBL + AO. I didn't do anything to tweak the lighting - with IDL it is completely automatic.

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I am impressed!

Real photo, not a render, showing where the horizon appears on buildings from a helicopter viewpoint.

Observe that the directly viewed horizon is even with the reflected horizon, and both are at an apparent elevation matching the camera elevation.

Tilting the camera up or down doesn't change this. The horizon appears on a building at the same elevation as the camera is, regardless of the cameras orientation. If you can see the building, the horizon will be reflected there.

Angles of reflections are only affected by the cameras position, not its orientation. That's why they don't jump around when you turn the camera to a different place.

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And how long did it take to render this one?  Heh, heh.

this would take hours in renderman

Yeah I didn't mean to make this a bunch of nit-picking not related to your lighting, which is great, just the reflections in that first pic really bugged me (they still do, although I accept that they're in the ballpark of what they ought to be given the environment).

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I meant to ask you to clarify: those are real reflections on the buildings, not a reflection map?  Yeah under 8 minutes for that is very fast.  I gather that your skydome is self-illuminating there since you are only using one light.  Is the color map also plugged into ambient color with a high ambient value or something like that?

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BB could answer the question better and in quicker time, but IIRC, the color map is not plugged into the ambient color at all.  Alt_diffuse, I believe.

If I remember correctly, that amounts to the same thing (ignores lighting model).

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those building renders are fab IMVHO.  it's amazing how well they compare to much more expensive renderers.
the ambient and translucence channels provide stronger lite sources than the alt_diffuse, which can be activated in those scenes so that its texture is unaffected by lites.

Quote - the ambient and translucence channels provide stronger lite sources than the alt_diffuse, which can be activated in those scenes so that its texture is unaffected by lites.

Huh? The ambient and alt-diffuse are identical. The math is simple. Whatever color is produced by the built-in specular and diffuse nodes, it then adds, literally mathematical addition, the values:

• Ambient_Value * Ambient_Color
• Reflection_Value * Reflection_Color
• Refraction_Value * Refraction_Color
• Alternate_Specular
• Alternate_Diffuse

None, none, of these inputs implement a lighting model, and they are interchangeable, with two exceptions:

Alt_Specular and Reflection_Color are treated special with transparency.

The Translucence channel has a behavior which is not explainable. To simplify, however, most of the time it is identical to ambient or alt_diffuse, which, remember, are simple addition - no lighting.

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I remember when you first pointed this out, that the different channels essentially work the same way and are just named for user convenience.  Good to know the exceptions though.

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Dont really know the material setup BB used, but I just tried this with dystopia, envsphere and that photo. I get the same results as always. Cartoon city.
How did you do it BB?

I made some shader changes.

First, I went through every material and corrected the Diffuse-Value = they were mostly = 1, and should not be. I made them variously .7 to .8.

Second I set bump to 0 on all the glass materials, and I made the reflection_Value = 40%. If I had not been in a hurry, I woudl have gone through and put proper Fresnel on them all, and the results would be even better.

On the EnvSphere, I used Gamma In = 2.2 and Gamma Out = 1.4.

In D3D Render settings I used HSV ETM Gain=1.2 and Exponent = 2.5 (I think - don't have it in front of me.) (Note: Gain is unlabeled - its the first number, above the exponent.)

Cache sample size = 12

IDL:
bounces = 2
Samples = 120
Cache = 20

I might have made some more changes but those are the important ones I remember.

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Thank you BB I'm trying it now. Please, when you have time can you do it with a proper fresnel? I would like to see the difference.

Okay this is what came out with the same settings as in the above post. Its definitely better than my default dystopia renders but not nearly as good as yours BB. And one render took an hour for me lol
What bothers me the most is the color. Everything is too blue.

Your light angle appears low.  The blue is from the sky dome image.

Thanks hborre, I'm just trying with a different angle.
The more I tweak it the worse it gets.

Try a different envsphere image with a completely different sky arrangement and color. 
BTW, those renders look very, very good.

Thanks. Its better than what I rendered 6 months ago. The rendered dystopia scene looked like the unrendered one lol It was ugly.
I have a looooong way to go :)

Try using the image I used, before you chase your tail. The one you're using here looks unnaturally blue, and may require special treatment. I gave a link to the one I used.

Also, the sun should be an infinite light and depending on the mood you're creating, could be 75% to 150% intensity. It has to to with the ratio of direct to secondary light, and occurs differently depending on cloud cover.

The true intensity of the sun is a constant, of course, but cameras have variable apertures and shutter speeds, which means there's no such thing as a predictable luminance for sunlit things. It looks right if the ratios are right. The absolute level doesn't matter.

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This one may be breathtaking only because it's so bizarre (and perhaps a tad creepy), but here's Andy with the most realistic human skin I can currently muster!  It's a simple, tiled skin pattern fed into my latest shader.  Lighting is composed of a single spotlight.  It rendered in about 2 minutes tops.

bill, I assumed you knew about the light-emitting channels in poser 7 and later, as you posted one or more renders, just as poser 8 sr0 went public, that used a posersurface as a light source illuminating a room with "andy" in it.  a posersurface with (ambient = white, 1) or (translucent = white, 1) is the source of illumination when GI variables are activated in a scene with no conventional poser4/5/6 lights, hence the term "light-emitting channels".  alt_diffuse also has this effect, but is usually a much weaker source of illumination than the two aforementioned channels.