wolf359 opened this issue on Jan 06, 2010 · 28 posts
wolf359 posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 5:29 AM
Hi all just thought this might be of interest for those who buy alot of DAZ original Content.
It seems official support for Older program versions ( P4-P7) &
( DS 2.x),
will soon be dropped
had happen sooner or later as time passes on
Cheers
dphoadley posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 5:55 AM
JenX posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 7:38 AM
To be honest, this isn't a major surprise. The Poser community has some hefty expectations when it comes to compatibility for content. It's like, it's designed for Poser, but has to work in Poser, DS, Vue, Carrarra, and Bryce. It's also got to work with every version of those programs. And....frankly, that's just not realistic.
Kudos to them for announcing it. They're being honest.
Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it
into a fruit salad.
LaurieA posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 8:44 AM
Yeah, but Poser 7???
Poser 8 ain't even stable yet for the love of Mike.... That, and I don't have it. Oh well, perhaps they really didn't need my business after all ;o).
Laurie
JenX posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 8:53 AM
shrug Not everyone that uses DS has DS3, either. It may not be fair to the people who haven't or can't upgrade, but demanding backward compatibility forever is just not realistic. There are more and more features in products where, if it does work in the current version, it should work in previous ones, but there's no guarantee. File types and structures haven't changed, so that should have no bearing on compatibility. The way P8 reads the files can't be that different from how P7 reads the files.
It's about priorities, and not shoving so much work on their QA team that more mistakes get through than not.
Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it
into a fruit salad.
ockham posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 8:55 AM
There isn't a meaningful difference between P7 and 8 in terms of how a figure is made.
Unless they're going to restrict all new content to using the Alyson-style
rigging, and require all materials to use normal maps, and have diffuse
and specular proportions designed for Indirect Lighting.....
I doubt that any content has those attributes yet.
LaurieA posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 9:00 AM
Oh, I'm not complaining really... It just seems a little premature to abandon backward compatibility (or is that combatability...lol) with a program that has just recently been updated for a program that's not been the most stable ;o). Anyway, I'm sure things for P8 will still work in P7 with some tweaking...lol. And I haven't been buying nearly as much stuff lately anyway ;o). If it would ever really bother me that much, I could always use DS 3 Advanced, which I have. Just have to learn how to use it!
Laurie
SamTherapy posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 9:01 AM
I'm still using P6 and won't be upgrading for some time. :(
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
hborre posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 9:37 AM
I agree with Laurie about the P7 discontinuation. It doesn't really make sense. If anyone is upgrading from a previous version, it would be logical to jump to P7 at most until P8's stability proves itself over time. Question is: what will happen to PoserPro? To my knowledge, DAZ has not wholeheartedly embraced the gamma correction issue within their own software. And those individuals forced to upgrade will need to look very closely at their own workflow to correct technical mistakes deeply ingrained in their thinking.
LaurieA posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 9:42 AM
Well, as far as PoserPro goes, no one has ever really had anything optimized for Pro, or at least very few.
Laurie
WandW posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 10:02 AM
DAZ itself was selling Poser 7 within the past year. :blink:
Actually, this could be a good thing, as I have some older DAZ products that use .rsr files and so perhaps they'll be modernised to work with Poser 8
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
LukeA posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 10:15 AM
This will make it easier for vendors and testers.
On another note, you guys are spoiled :) a lot of applications have NO backward compatibility and often are expensive apps to purchase.
LukeA
ShawnMcCarthy posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 10:20 AM
I agree with LaurieA as far as Poser 7 is concerned. I truly understand putting a limit on what is supported, but this is typically a (current version - 1) support issue. I don't foresee any issues, but it is surprising even to someone in the software development business.
Shawn
McCarthy
www.defyallchallenges.com
LaurieA posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 10:20 AM
Quote - This will make it easier for vendors and testers.
On another note, you guys are spoiled :) a lot of applications have NO backward compatibility and often are expensive apps to purchase.
I agree we are spoiled ;o). Having said that tho, a lot of folks still are using older versions of Poser and the free version of D|S. It stands to reason that if you want to sell more things, you'll be compatible with at least the previous version of those programs. Not all, I agree with that (making things for Poser 4 and 5 now is kinda ridiculous), but at least for the latest free version of D|S and Poser 7. At the very least. Because Poser content is so sales-driven, it just makes good business sense and I'm surprised that Daz of all places is willing to abandon those versions. Wider audience, more sales...
Oh well...
Should I decide to again become a vender, I for one will continue to make things compatible to at least Poser 6. But I guess that's just me ;o).
Laurie
pjz99 posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 11:26 AM
Witty title (shame on you folks for not noting that).
Can't blame DAZ for this because Poser 8's new rigging mechanics will never be compatible with older versions of stuff - so DAZ can ignore the new rigging mechanics (which would be a shame, because they're pretty powerful) or they can decide not to provide backwards support for 10 year old versions of stuff.
AnAardvark posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 2:14 PM
Quote - There isn't a meaningful difference between P7 and 8 in terms of how a figure is made.
Unless they're going to restrict all new content to using the Alyson-style
rigging, and require all materials to use normal maps, and have diffuse
and specular proportions designed for Indirect Lighting.....I doubt that any content has those attributes yet.
I'd just be happy if people stop using the alternative diffuse and ambient channels in shaders. It's a pain to render using IDL and discover that character is glowing ...
kobaltkween posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 2:20 PM
Quote - [a lot of folks still are using older versions of Poser and the free version of D|S.
D|S 3 is still free. D|S 3 Advanced is the non-free version.
Paloth posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 3:07 PM
Maybe I'm dyslexic, but I thought this thread was about Vestal Virgins in ancient Rome.
Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368
Khai-J-Bach posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 3:12 PM
naw the ones next door, the Vestigial Virgins...
pjz99 posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 5:47 PM
Quote - Maybe I'm dyslexic, but I thought this thread was about Vestal Virgins in ancient Rome.
Miss Nancy posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 6:04 PM
the ones with 6 toes and webbed feet. I heard they had alotta trouble getting dates to the coliseum (sp?) on rumble-mania nite.
Acadia posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 6:10 PM
OMG! Dyslexia is a trip! I looked at the title of this thread at least 5 times and saw "vestal virgins"!
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
SamTherapy posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 6:20 PM
Quote - Witty title (shame on you folks for not noting that).
I did. Didn't comment on it, though. Wolf is generally good at witticisms, so maybe I'm spoiled there, too. :P
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
doggod posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 8:42 PM
I remember a few years ago, when Adobe 6 was being introduced, reading a letter from a man who was still using version 2 or 3 and had been for five years. His attitude was that he still hadn't learned everything he wanted to learn from the version he was using and, therefore, saw no point in upgrading.
It's rare for me to upgrade to each new version. I wasn't pleased with many problems I had with Poser 6, not the least of which was constricted memory - and I did jump to 7. But I still haven't left C4D 9 (with upgrades at $3500 a pop). And I just recently moved from Adobe 6 to CS4; there was a huge leap, lol. The point is, these are increasing complicated and feature-rich pieces of software...it's downright silly to abandon what I've just begun to explore.
At one time, software updates were released when major major changes were introduced - and users were supported with patches in meantime. New features were often introduced by patch and tested with users before being integrated into the next version. Now, way too often, updates are released to give developers something to sell - with less than stunning changes. Virtually every company is releasing it's annual "new version."
I understand the business model, but the solution to screw the customer one more time is a sad one.
And I also think we have to keep the DAZ merger in mind here, and remember that DAZ has other things to keep themselves busy - like realigning staff. I don't think they're thinking in terms of the best support they can provide, they're thinking in terms of what's the minimum they can get away with because they just don't WANNA. This ain't new, most major businesses adopted that model in the early to mid-nineties.
And I LIKE DAZ, been a customer of theirs for years, lol. Doesn't mean I'm always happy with them or any other self-serving corporation..
Winterclaw posted Wed, 06 January 2010 at 9:23 PM
Hex 2.5 is as buggy as heck. They certainly aren't QAing it.
WARK!
Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.
(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)
lmckenzie posted Thu, 07 January 2010 at 3:04 AM
Official support and backward compatibility are often two different things. There are plenty of applications that are no longer supported on new systems that continue to work just fine. Ending official support allows a company to disown any responsibility for possible problems while lowering support and development costs and goosing users to upgrade – at least that’s the way it’s probably supposed to work. Sometimes firms will continue to offer legacy support for a price or free on a case by case basis. That seems to be the case here, given the wording of the announcement.
It does seem strange to drop support for all but the latest version, but it depends on what their plans are. Daz seems to be continuing to develop Studio. Given the differences between Studio and Poser in areas like shaders and dynamic cloth, it seems to me that the “legacy” features represent a lot of the commonality between the applications. Unless they’re going to adopt the Poser 8 standards for Studio, they’ll still have to support two environments. That “might” bode well for Studio users since it “could” mean that they’re going to concentrate more on providing content optimized to the unique capabilities of each application.
The main potential problem I see is breaking changes. People will accept that Vicky XIV’s new soft body dynamic breasts don’t work in Poser 7 or DS 2, but they will have a whole lot of very unhappy customers if she doesn’t gracefully degrade to the old standard operation. Daz doesn’t have Microsoft’s resources or thousands of corporate users demanding legacy support, but unless they plan to turn their business model upside down and subordinate content to applications or delivery then they need to be careful about breaking things. Despite the Daz “addiction” meme, this is still a discretionary thing for most people. I think Mr. Farr probably realizes that, unless he’s still holding on to his shares of AOL. Maybe he has a magic black turtleneck.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
pakled posted Thu, 07 January 2010 at 10:08 AM
As the penultimate (next to last) user of P5, I already deal with a lot of stuff I can't use...;)
Now if Smith Micro decides not to support, then I'll be worried...
I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit
anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)
Khai-J-Bach posted Thu, 07 January 2010 at 10:13 AM
erm... SM stopped supporting 5 sometime ago ....