Here's a little IDL amusement.

Add a one sided square. Set its scale to 1000%. Set xScale to 600%. This makes a wall.

Apply this shader.

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Duplicate it and move the dup away, making a hallway.

Add a ceiling, using another scaled square with a plain white material.

Render with no lights.

This done with Poser Pro 2010, with GC enabled.

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So ambient_value at .5, ambient_color white appears to give off light. Light is reflected on the floor - I'm assuming no reflection is turned on for floor or ceiling? The figure appears to be illuminated by the wall "lights".
All just because you're using IDL. If you weren't, what, nothing would render except white squares where that wall is?
No even going to comment on the shader: it's just defining where the squares are going to be, is that correct?

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Are speculars now aware of ambient, or does the figure have reflection on it?

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Yet another reason for me to want P8 and a new computer to run it on.  :( 

Damn you, BagginsBill.  ;)

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Quote - Yet another reason for me to want P8 and a new computer to run it on.  :( 

Damn you, BagginsBill.  ;)

I understand just how you feel. with the exception of Poser 8. I have that already., but a new computer would make it 100% better. lol

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Quote -
So ambient_value at .5, ambient_color white appears to give off light. Light is reflected on the floor - I'm assuming no reflection is turned on for floor or ceiling? The figure appears to be illuminated by the wall "lights".
All just because you're using IDL. If you weren't, what, nothing would render except white squares where that wall is?
No even going to comment on the shader: it's just defining where the squares are going to be, is that correct?

Not .5, but 5. The luminance of the white rectangles is hyper-white 5.

The floor is a diffuse and reflect, which means you're getting IDL diffuse light coming from those rectangles, as well as some specular reflection of those rectangles. Because the reflection is very low, the luminance of the reflections is in the unit range, despite the fact that the rectangles are hyper white.

If I turned off IDL, we'd see the white rectangles and specular reflections of them, but everything else would be black.

The shader is not just hyper white. It also has ordinary diffuse in it. (Think about one of those panels if the light bulb blew out. It would be white plastic, illuminated by the other panels, so it would diffusely reflect some of that.) So my shader is white plastic (diffuse) plus in the rectangles some seriously bright self illumination.

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Quote - Are speculars now aware of ambient, or does the figure have reflection on it?

The figure and floor have reflection on them. Specular nodes probably never be IDL aware. Specular nodes are just simplified models of reflection of traditional light sources.

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I actually threw this together because of the node tut discussion in the other thread we're talking in.

What is a subtract node for? Here are two of them. One was used to calculate the complement of the V coordinate. Why? Because I need to know how far I am from the top and from the bottom. Whichever is smaller, is the nearer edge. That's the job of the Min - which is smaller?

The other subtract node was to take that distance (to the nearest edge) and subtract .15 from it so that if I'm closer than .15, I have a negative number, and if I'm farther than .15 I have a positive number.

I then multiply that by 100 and clamp it. This gives me a sharp gradient from 0 to 1 that begins .15 V units from the nearest edge.

So subtract is for finding nearest edges, or for finding distance from a known coordinate, or for a billion other things.

Clamp was used to limit value to 0 to 1. (Robyn, you and CobaltDream know that was to force it to be a PBUF. None of the people here know what a PBUF is, so I have to explain it in more words. Someday, everybody will know what a PBUF is.)

Anyway, that gives me a horizontal band of white that I multiply with the white vertical bands coming from the tile node to get the rectangles the size I wanted them.

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Quote - Not .5, but 5. The luminance of the white rectangles is hyper-white 5.

Need to have my prescription checked. I could have sworn it said .5. Which didn't make sense.

Ambient_value of 5... does this make white a super-colour? Well, how can it? 1 x 5... what the heck colour is THAT? Or are we not changing WHITE itself, but the behaviour of that channel?
Opening a can of worms...

BTW, this is what I was talking about in that other thread about "Basic Poser Node Behaviour"... THIS needs to be accessible somewhere central...

[EDIT] Dang, cross-posted...

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white is just 1,1,1. Multiply times 5 and it's 5, 5, 5. Yes, that's a  hyper color (or super color as you said). Means the same as far as I'm concerned.

You and I have talked about this for a long time now. Hopefully it's sinking in. We can work with luminance values that we cannot directly see, but indirectly the effects are felt. The floor reflections are very low at 10%, yet they are bright - because .1 * 5 = .5. So the reflections are about half as bright as the maximum our monitor can display. The directly viewed rectangles appear to be 1, but they are 5.

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I spoke to SM tonight about these darn corner artifacts. They expect them to be fixed soon. There will be another SR for P8, and Poser Pro 2010 will never show these at all.

I would already have been doing a lot of tutorials about IDL, but these artifacts show up. I figure there's no use teaching all about IDL if it's going to change in order to fix this.

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Um... where do I find that texture coordinate node?

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Silly question but what is give the gray part of the walls (light between the lights) that slightly cloudy look?  Is that a part of the artifacts you were talking about?

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Well, dagnab it. I don't know how you did it, Bagginsbill. I can get a reasonable facsimile of what you did above, considering I didn't get that texture coordinate node. But I can't get raytraced reflections without adding a light.

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Quote - Well, dagnab it. I don't know how you did it, Bagginsbill. I can get a reasonable facsimile of what you did above, considering I didn't get that texture coordinate node. But I can't get raytraced reflections without adding a light.

Heheh. And now you see first hand why I have written over and over and over again:

Uncheck REFLECT_LITE_MULT - it is bad - makes no sense - never let it be on
Uncheck REFLECT_KD_MULT - it is also bad

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The v_texture_coordinate node is New Node/Variables/v

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Quote - Uncheck REFLECT_LITE_MULT - it is bad - makes no sense - never let it be on
Uncheck REFLECT_KD_MULT - it is also bad

The default for this should be off if it's never useful.

My Freebies

Quote - > Quote - Well, dagnab it. I don't know how you did it, Bagginsbill. I can get a reasonable facsimile of what you did above, considering I didn't get that texture coordinate node. But I can't get raytraced reflections without adding a light.

Heheh. And now you see first hand why I have written over and over and over again:

Uncheck REFLECT_LITE_MULT - it is bad - makes no sense - never let it be on
Uncheck REFLECT_KD_MULT - it is also bad

I saw your reference to that above, but I had no idea where these parameters even are.

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Quote - The v_texture_coordinate node is New Node/Variables/v

Ah, thanks. Makes sense, but not obvious. :)

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Quote - Uncheck REFLECT_LITE_MULT - it is bad - makes no sense - never let it be on
Uncheck REFLECT_KD_MULT - it is also bad

I saw your reference to that above, but I had no idea where these parameters even are.

They're on the root PoserSurface node.  Reflect_Lite_Mult is on for every material by default.

My Freebies

Quote - > Quote -

Uncheck REFLECT_LITE_MULT - it is bad - makes no sense - never let it be on
Uncheck REFLECT_KD_MULT - it is also bad

I saw your reference to that above, but I had no idea where these parameters even are.

Nevermind. Don't know why I couldn't see them earlier. Guess I was expecting them in a different place.

The KD_MULT was already unchecked... I'm guessing it's just REFLECT_LITE_MULT that is checked by default.

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Yeah, caught it, pjz, thanks. I must have been looking for them either on the reflect node or right together with the reflection value on the Surface panel.

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Er... I take it having that checked by default is a new wrinkle in P8 or PP2010 Beta? because I just realized that I never had to go looking for that in the old Poser Pro and I got reflections fine....

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I don't think it mattered until you got into P8's tone mapping or gamma correction.

My Freebies

Well, when I used Poser Pro, I used GC. Is there a different GC setup with the 2010 version, I wonder?

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Quote - > Quote - Uncheck REFLECT_LITE_MULT - it is bad - makes no sense - never let it be on

Uncheck REFLECT_KD_MULT - it is also bad

The default for this should be off if it's never useful.

If it should default to off, why does it default to on?

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Dumbness.

My Freebies

it's been checked by default since day 1 (poser 4).  old habits die hard.  back in those days all they had were refl. maps.

Strange, usualy you always use Alt_Diffuse ... Why not in this case ?

Génération mobiles Le Forum / Le Site

 

FWIW, I just posted a larger version of this variation to my gallery. Rendered in just under 20 minutes with PP2010 Beta.

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Quote - Strange, usualy you always use Alt_Diffuse ... Why not in this case ?

I usually have to do GC in the shader, which means I have to take over what the root node usually does.

The root nodes does not let me add GC to it after. There is nothing I can do to add anything after the root node.

So ... I usually do not use anything built into the root node. I use the Alternate_Diffuse channel, which is pretty much a channel that exactly defines the output, without any more interpretation by the root node. When you see me use the Alternate_Diffuse channel of the root node, and pretty much nothing else, you can assume I'm doing that because the Root node is useless to me, is no advantage, and I wish it were gone in that case.

However, with Poser Pro 2010, I do not need to do GC in the shader. It will be done after the root node automatically. Which means the Root node math is very helpful. It contains, built in, a Diffuse node, a Specular node, and lots of other things, and it adds them all together.

Do I need the root node to provide all these things? No - I can do them myself and add them together. But when the root node does the job of 5 other nodes, (so long as GC is taken care of by the renderer, not the shader) then I use the full features of the root node.

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> Quote - Here's a little IDL amusement. > > Add a one sided square. Set its scale to 1000%. Set xScale to 600%. This makes a wall.

And What grreat fun this is to experiment with.

I have a question or two for The Jedi Master of Poser Nodes.

Is it possible to have something like a Wall texture surrounding the White Light Panels?

Is it possible to use something like the 3d Clouds Node for the White Panels?

I tried using Blender or the Ambient Color with limited sucess.

Thanks

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

I'm assuming is that what it comes down to is whether the mortar is tweakable.

I'm assuming one could plug texturing nodes into the Mortar_Color parameter (on the Tile node), no?

(I don't have time to open Poser @ the moment to test, but it sounds doable to my very limited knowledge.)

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just plug your color/texture on the Tile node, Tile_1 Tile_2 or Mortar color , you must change the top math_function by a Color_Math otherwise you get only grey color

That's pretty cool, rjjack. But I think mariner was asking about the mortar - the area *surrounding* the white panels.

This looks pretty bad, because I just threw a node on the Mortar_Color and didn't do much tweaking. But just had to make sure it could be done. :)

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> Quote - That's pretty cool, rjjack. But I think mariner was asking about the mortar - the area *surrounding* the white panels.

You are most correct.
Something like Wall paper or Paint that one would see in and Airline terminal.

It would also be most interesting "IF" the White Areas could having something like clouds or an Outdoor scene. Something like one may encounter when traveling through the terminal.

Cheers
DR

I really like how these panels work with a Character.

Aging Mike.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Mike in the Airline Terminal

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Another quick example, with colour.

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My settings reflect the fact I was experimenting. Ignore the blue on the Mortar_Color.

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Hm, I guess that blue was doing something, but I'm guess it was acting in greyscale (?). Anyway, lots of fun to play with.

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Quote - Hm, I guess that blue was doing something, but I'm guess it was acting in greyscale (?). Anyway, lots of fun to play with.

you use a math_function replace with a Color_Math the math_function_4

Thanks. That's not working for me so far. Only colour I'm getting is what I set the Ambient_Color at.

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maybe this, plugged in the Diffuse_Color

Sweet

Could you show a capture of the Material room for this?

Thanks

How about a Caustic or Gel?

Quote -
maybe this, plugged in the Diffuse_Color

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

I think rjjack just means that's an image map plugged into Diffuse_Color.

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Heh heh. This is looking pretty funky. A render of an old render with texture plus reflection.

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.. or you could use a procedural. This is one of bb's own shiny marble shaders, plugged into the PoserSurface node, and turning the internal diffuse off. (I did not bother to scale the marble to suit the wall, I just loaded and rendered).

"If I were a shadow, I know I wouldn't like to be half of what I should be."
Mr Otsuka, the old black tomcat in Kafka on the Shore (Haruki Murakami)

This sort of thing could be usable if I knew how to have it tile horizontally and avoid texture stretching.

However, mariner, I thought your question had to do with placing images on the light sources, not the "wall/mortar" sections - like the lit billboards in public places.

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Quote - This sort of thing could be usable if I knew how to have it tile horizontally and avoid texture stretching.

 
adjust the scale and offset values of the texture node to do that... The changes depend on the size of your wall though.

Can this be applied in Poser 7, using a work around like say an IBL setup?

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I think Ihave to be doing something wrong with this. This is what I am getting ...

Ghostofmacbeth, try increasing the IDL bounces. I used 4.

@ ThunderStone: No, this cannot be applied to P7 and IBL.  If you read the beginning of the post, it specifically needs IDL to work.  Without it, you will see the white rectangles and specular reflections but everything else will go black.  IBL does not work very well for interiors.

Ghostofmacbeth: Looks to me like (1) your ambience setting is relatively low (surely not 5.0?); and (2) you don't have functional reflections (are you having the same problem I had earlier? Make sure REFLECT_LITE_MULT is unchecked on your Poser Surface).

I've been rendering with considerably less than 5.0 most of the time, but the reflections add a lot of light too.

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It was the reflect lite mult check for the most part it seems. At least somewhat. Thanks

Don't forget, my render was Poser Pro 2010 with GC. You cannot get that brightly lit look with ETM alone. You must GC. Poser 8 doesn't have GC.

I see that the two-zone material is of interest, and you guys don't understand the general case of building two materials in one. I'll post on that tomorrow.

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Hello,
AFAIK any material for Poser can be described by a matmatic script.
Also matmatic had that "mixer" build-in to mix complete materials.
Given that, it should be easy to combine any existing wall material with
the light patterns. Just use the pattern bitmap as the stencil.

Best regards,
   Michael
 

Have you ever done something like a Stained Glass Window?
You have had so many great materials in the past, hard to keep up with all of them..

I would think in a Hallway, room such as this scene, something with several colors in it to emitt light would be most interesting.

Cheers
DR

Quote - Don't forget, my render was Poser Pro 2010 with GC. You cannot get that brightly lit look with ETM alone. You must GC. Poser 8 doesn't have GC.

I see that the two-zone material is of interest, and you guys don't understand the general case of building two materials in one. I'll post on that tomorrow.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

I'll second that.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3525210&ebot_calc_page#message_3525210

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This is so cool, thanks BB.

I added a few props with the one sided squares! :)

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Looks good Porthos.

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Quote - http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3525210&ebot_calc_page#message_3525210

Thank you for the link. Somehow I must have missed that topic.

Cheers
DR

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Quote - http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3525210&ebot_calc_page#message_3525210

Question for you BB;
I used Anthanasius's Node Setup for a stained glass window. I don't thinkt the results would have been any different with yours.

When I delete "All" of the lights in the scene and use the 100% IDL Render Option, I get a very dark figure. I guess that is due to the "Ambient Value" being set at Zero. When i start to increase the Ambient Value of the one sided square I lose the Stained Glass Window.

Is there a way to use the "Blender Node" to increase the Ambient Value of the Stained Glass Window?

I tried increaseinf Cellular Intensity1 with a little better lighting.

TKS
DR

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

A self-lit prop used as an IDL source of light must be either intensely bright or very large.

My IDL wall rectangles are intensely bright - with a luminance of 5 (on the unit scale, where 1 is the brightest value your monitor can show.)

A simple solution would be to copy the colored cellular node from Anth's shader into my light wall, and plug it into the tile node on both Tile_1 and Tile_2. Then the white * 5 rectangles would become those colors times 5.

 

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As always BB, thank you very much for the information and learning.

Cheers
DR

Quote - A self-lit prop used as an IDL source of light must be either intensely bright or very large.

My IDL wall rectangles are intensely bright - with a luminance of 5 (on the unit scale, where 1 is the brightest value your monitor can show.)

A simple solution would be to copy the colored cellular node from Anth's shader into my light wall, and plug it into the tile node on both Tile_1 and Tile_2. Then the white * 5 rectangles would become those colors times 5.

 

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Note also that there are reflective surfaces in the light wall scene. I was able to turn the ambient value down below 1 and still have a relatively bright render, but that's because of the reflections.

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couple questions?

are you all using the p2010 beta for these renders?
do the render settings (other than turning on the global illumination) matter?
does the multiply in BB's render node tree make this brighter, or is it just for the pattern?

edit:
It's a nice pattern, I'd like to make something like this useful in p8 with the idirect lighting...just bright enough in p8

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For p8, i guess you just turn up the volume (ambient value). I know I didnt do to much to the scene but here is a value of 5, then 15 in the ambient channel. Nice procedural BB, though I'm sure I did something wrong since I am getting a dark grey around the white...maybe I just didnt get true balck when making the nodes in one of the values.

edit: poser 8*

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This time I used Edgeblend,ColoRamp,fBM connected to: Ambient Color

Used Apollo Space Marine and VP SciFi Room

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

That scene looks really good, mariner.

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Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

So what are your rendertimes like DR.

Quote - So what are your rendertimes like DR.

I just render the same scene again before posting my reply.

Total Time was 8.0 minutes
Pre-Calc time was 6.5 minutes
Render time was 1.5 minutes

Quad Core CPU
8 GB RAM
64Bit WinVista HP

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

This one took a little longer to Render

IDLApolloSpaceMarine Galactic War Zone

I had to compress it 15% to get it to post. Original does look better.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

strange... mine took the same time but i have dual core (2.2ghz), 4 gigs ram and a non dedicated on borad graphics card on a touchscreen hp laptop. I would think your render would have been faster. My character here is about 124k polys, so it's kinda heavy and has 3 transparent mats!

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Quote -
Heheh. And now you see first hand why I have written over and over and over again:

Uncheck REFLECT_LITE_MULT - it is bad - makes no sense - never let it be on
Uncheck REFLECT_KD_MULT - it is also bad

OK, another question for you BB.
With Your Env Dome and Colm's Terra Dome, would this also apply to them as well?
If this is always true, MAYBE one of the talented Python Script Writers could make a Py to Turn Off both?

Thanks
DR

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

This is not for the domes. It's for whatever material is trying to reflect other things, regardless of whether those are domes or figures or other kinds of props.

And somebody did post a request for a script to turn them off in all materials. But there are materials that are designed to compensate for this, and if you blindly turn this off, they will behave differently.

My instructions were with regard to your own workflow. When you start designing a material, your first step, in all cases, should be to turn them off.

The issue only arises because of using primitives and starting points for new things. When you load a primitive, you're going to want to edit its shader - you have to in order to even have any Reflect node in it. While you're there doing that, turn the Reflect_Lite_Mult off. (Or the other - whichever is turned on in all the primitives.)

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Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

the result of my experiments,  except Aiko3, the hair and the dress everything in the scene is just poser primitives